Uncover - S27 E2: Race Against Time | "Bloodlines"

Episode Date: July 23, 2024

Bombs drop as Poonam enters Syria, blocking access to the areas she needs to get to. If things get worse, the troops guarding IS prisons say they will be forced to abandon their positions. The team makes contact with Salmaan’s Canadian family, learning what they believe happened to him and his mother. Poonam and her team see up close the dangers still facing children here.We want to hear from you! Take the Uncover audience survey now.

This is a CBC Podcast. You're listening to Episode 2 of Bloodlines. This episode contains some strong language. Visiting the camps? Yes, visiting the camps. Roj and Hal. Writing about women and children? Yes, the children.

Both women and children? Yes, the children. It's November 21st, a day after I left London. I'm at the border office in Iraqi Kurdistan, waiting to cross into Syria. I spent last night half convinced we were going to have to call off this trip because while I was in the air, Turkey began bombing the region of Syria I need to get into. Neighbouring Turkey is firing missiles unrelentingly.

Payback, it claims, for deadly attacks. Including a bombing in Istanbul on November 13th. Today, things are just stable enough that I can make the journey across the border. My producer, Juan, travelled a couple of days before me. He's on the other side, waiting for me. So I get on a cramped minibus and make it over the Tigris on a rickety bridge. Hi, Joanne. Hi.

I'm good. Listen, how are you? We've really been worried about you. I know. It's been kind of intense, hectic days, actually. They arrived and it was very normal. You'd never guess from Juan's easy manner that just yesterday he was precariously close to bomb strikes. But Juan is more or less unflappable. We've worked together before and I trust him completely. So maybe we had this meeting and then in the middle of the night,

actually it was Fahad who was working with us. Hi, hi Fahad. He messaged me first, actually. Hello. Juan and Fahad have been trying to get us into the camps that hold the women and children who once lived under IS. These are the sprawling tent cities I talked about earlier, surrounded by barbed wire and guarded by armed soldiers.

They're called Al-Hol and Al-Raj. And if Salman made it out alive, this is where he likely ended up. So Fahad messaged me and saying they start bombing. It was like 12 o'clock midnight. And after, you know, everything was completely changed. We've been contacted by SDF, by the security. The meetings with them being cancelled.

All of them. Yeah, all of them were cancelled, so we couldn't do anything. The SDF are the Syrian Democratic Forces, a Kurdish-led military alliance. They helped defeat IS and now guard the camps. We need their permission to get in. But the SDF are being hit by Turkish airstrikes. And while they're dealing with that, they can't deal with us. We make it through the border, and soon we're driving through northeast Syria. The place has a real frontier town vibe, but today it's deserted. Shutters are down. People are mourning those killed in the airstrikes.

We'll try meeting with the SDF again tomorrow, when things might be clearer. But for now, there's an update on my search for Salman. Yeah, you're getting late there now, so why don't I update you on little bits I have. So why don't I update you on little bits I have. That's Michelle Shepard. She's a journalist I'm working with in Toronto. Michelle spent the past couple of decades covering terror and national security. And she's been looking for information about baby Salman's Canadian mother, Aisha. So far, Aisha's been a complete ghost to us.

But Michelle's found a contact who could help. A friend of Aisha. So far, Aisha's been a complete ghost to us. But Michelle's found a contact who could help, a friend of Aisha's sister. I did talk to our contact who had a very long discussion with the sister. Wow. So I guess the main thing is that it has been confirmed that it's the right family. She had this little boy. I mean, it's actually her. The family is just incredibly traumatized by this. This is the new thing though. Apparently a friend of hers called and she said that nobody survived. In their minds, he's no longer alive. Did they, did this contact provide any information on who that person was who called? No, so I asked that. I said, you know, could we possibly... It sounds a lot like the mysterious message that Ash,

Sulman's grandfather, got, saying that Aisha had died. Michelle's contact makes it sound like Aisha's family has no hope that Zulman may have survived. I'm not really sure what to make of this. It's certainly not unreasonable to think Zulman's dead. But without knowing more about who called or what they actually knew, it's not enough for me to abandon my search. I know there are children, orphans, who were looked after by other women and never handed over to authorities. Well, listen, you go get some sleep there. I know you have a huge day tomorrow.

And please keep us on touch on the WhatsApp. That you're safe. Absolutely. Okay. Take care. Speak soon. Take care. Bye.

Not long after I get off the call with Michelle, my phone starts going crazy. In the next room, Joanne's is going off too. It's our colleagues and contacts warning us that Turkey's on the verge of sending in ground troops. If that happens, the SDF say they will go to the border to defend their territory. The camps could be left unguarded. An IS could have a chance to break in, free its supporters and capture thousands of children.

I'm Poonam Taneja. This is Bloodlines. We've stopped off at an oil processing plant and right in front of me is a massive fire i'm not sure if you can actually hear it so huge flames massive boom of smoke this was the target of an airstrike last night and it's really really big overnight turkey has started bombing again. Some of the targets are dangerously close and we've had to move. We just thought we'd come in, we'd have a quick look, we'd do some filming, we'd do some recording and then we're leaving. We are not hanging around here. This may be turning into a full-scale war.

The man in charge of the SDF is General Masloom Abdi. He'll know what's going on. So if we want to know what's going on, we'll need to try to speak to him. Around here, the general is seen as a hero, the man who led the fight against IS. But in Turkey, he's on its most wanted list. General Masloom, you might have a lot of answers for us. Yeah, especially regarding the camps, the ISIS presence,

the women, the children. So it would be really good to have him. Yeah, maybe he can put in a good word. If there's anyone who can get us into the camps, it's the general. Late that night, there's a knock at my door. It's Joanne. Hey.

Good news, bad news? Bad news. OK. Al-Hol has been targeted in the three airstrikes. What the fuck? Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Al-Hol camp. Al-Hol is the biggest camp.

It's where most of the kids were taken after the fall of IS. And it's the first place I wanted to look for Salman. 25,000 children live there, half under the age of 12. It's not clear yet if anyone was killed. But a bomb in a place with so many kids is awful news. Oh, my God, this is disaster, Joanne. It's unbelievable. I can't believe this. Al-Holkham being bombed, that's just insane.

That's beyond... The whole camp being bombed, that's just insane. That's beyond... Fahim is calling. He's probably going to tell about the whole thing. OK, put him on loudspeaker, maybe. Yeah, he says the same news that the hole has been targeted. And he says also there is some rumors saying some women have escaped. So he's going to talk to the SDF guy who is his friend to check how many escaped.

And I can't believe this. Al-Holqa being bombed. That's just insane. That's beyond... I am getting seriously worried now. So, you should know this now. Yeah. Yeah. That's my mother messaging.

Has she heard about Al-Holaz? Yeah, she said, I've heard bad news in Qamishlo, Al-Arya. My mother doesn't watch the news anymore. She switches over when she sees Syria. Our search for Salman has to take a back seat to the breaking news. And yet, what's playing out right now is Salman's story, the greater story about the legacy of IS and the kids in these camps. The situation is so precarious.

Everyone has warned that. No one more so than the man we have just secured an interview with, General Abdi. I'm guessing security is going to be really tough. So they're going to check our stuff and everything as well. So we're just outside this huge coalition base now. And Fahad is just negotiating with the soldiers at the entrance for us to be allowed in. If you notice, Fahad is dressing well today.

Most smartly dressed person here. Yeah. I asked him this morning, have you looked like you're going to a wedding? He said, no, no, because I'm meeting the general. I think we're going to have to stop recording soon. Yeah. Because this is a really sensitive area

and we don't want to get on the wrong side of our hosts. Let's just see if they let us in first. The base is surrounded by fortified walls, watchtowers, satellite dishes. Earlier this week, it was hit by a Turkish airstrike. The SDF say two of its officers were killed. hit by a Turkish airstrike. The SDF say two of its officers were killed. A couple of heavily armed guards wave us through the gates.

So, one, two, yeah, one, two, one, two. Yeah, I'm going to be speaking like this. I'm going to be talking to the general about concerns about... OK, that's better. Yeah, John, can you speak? He's the general, ma'am. It's a pleasure to meet you, sir. No question, sir.

Thank you. Pleasure. General Abdi comes into the room with his translator. He's in a pristine combat uniform and highly polished boots. He's about six foot, mid-fifties, ramrod posture. He's focused, calm, and judging by the look in his eyes, battle-weary. Are we good to roll great so general you mentioned the the is fighters and their families and the detainees in prisons and camps so if there is a ground assault is that going to impact the way you guard

those prisons and camps and detention centres? We have more than 12,000 ISIS detainees in our detention centres. Tens of thousands of ISIS fighter family members. If they start a ground operation, all of our forces and colleagues will be busy protecting their families and their relatives instead of protecting their scouts. I would like to say that the implications of a ground operation will be very, very complicated and very negative.

of a ground operation will be very, very complicated and very negative. It's not the first time the SDF has threatened to abandon the prisons and camps if Turkey starts a ground operation. Leaving thousands of IS prisoners unguarded has a way of grabbing the headlines in this largely forgotten region. But when it comes hours after a strike on Al-Hol, it feels like more than just posturing. What is your message to the international community now? I would like to give them this message. We have become a part of the state because of terrorism. to stand beside us and stop the Turks from launching this operation.

A lot of blood has been shed on this ground in order to bring freedom to this land. Throughout our interview, the general refers to the camps as ticking time bombs. This is a line he's used a lot in the past. If this Turkish offensive continues, he says, that bomb will go off. I wrap things up. Juan needs some wide shots of the general

for the TV piece we're doing. If you keep talking for, like, maybe two minutes, I'll just take some shots. Just take some shots. I make my way to the general site. And so I came to visit Al Raj Camp, Al Hol Camp, the rehabilitation centres and the prison. So it was supposed to be a very, very big trip.

And because of everything that's happening, we're facing a few delays. I'm just wondering if there could be any suggestions you could make to us or any help you could offer us. Unfortunately, we had to freeze a lot of activities because of the aggression and the airstrikes here. We would love to support you in your efforts here. Today, tomorrow, we'll have to stay, see how the situation is developing.

If you're staying more than three, four days and if the situation is getting better, we're offering all support. Oh, thank you. We'll be here for two more weeks. Thank you, General. It's been a pleasure meeting you. Thank you, General. It's been a pleasure meeting you. Thank you, sir. OK, Juan, you have that look, which I never know if that's... You're going to tell me something really good or really bad.

It's only a few hours after our meeting with the general. Well, no, it is quite good. But so we get the permission for Al-Hol, but not for today, for tomorrow. So we can go to Al-Hol tomorrow and we probably can get into the camp, inside the camp also. Fantastic.

That is brilliant news. We finally have a foot in the door into one of the places where Salman may have been. I'm Kathleen Goltar, and I'm the host of Crime Story. Every week, we bring you a different crime, told by the storyteller who knows it best. You got one witness who can't be found. You got another witness who's murdered. We couldn't sugarcoat the story.

I was getting calls from Cosby's attorney threatening to sue every day. Every crime in one way or another is a reflection of who we are as a people, as a city, as a country. Find us wherever you get your podcasts. Uncover from CBC Podcasts brings you award-winning investigations year-round. But if you want to listen ahead, all episodes of Bloodlines are available right now. Binge listen to the entire series by searching Bloodlines wherever you get your podcasts.

You can also listen ad-free by subscribing to the CBC True Crime channel on Apple Podcasts. Uncover the best in true crime. The drive to Al-Hol takes a couple of hours. It's late November, and it's cold, damp and foggy. The camp is named after the local town, itself once occupied by IS. This area, just looking around, it's desolate. It's quite empty and barren and I know that there are houses we can see in the distance, but here it's quite remote. This is always a bit of a difficult landscape in terms of IS. Yeah, exactly. That's what I mean, actually.

So it's unpredictable and in this area a lot of people are still IS sympathisers. Yeah. As we're driving and I'm thinking about the days when IS ruled

this area, it really feels strange that this was the centre of one of the most brutal regimes. Especially if you are not IS, or if you're a journalist or a raid worker. It's incredible, they slaughter them. James Foley, Kayla Mueller, foreigners who mistakenly drove to ISIS territory and were captured all by ISIS surprise attacks and never made it back.

I remember that day in June 2014 when they declared the caliphate in Mosul. I was in Iraq back then, actually, the time that they declared the caliphate. In Mosul. I was in Iraq back then, actually, the time that they declared the caliphate. It was unbelievable. And it happened so fast. Yeah. And people were terrified, you know. Once ISIS released these brutal videos,

they only think it would come to your mind when you hear the word ISIS, Daesh, it's like you will be slaughtered, you will be beheaded. Beheaded. Those videos were brutal. And then whenever you see, oh, ISIS are approaching this area, it would be mass displacement, you know. People would be trying to flee straight away. Yeah.

people would be trying to flee straight away yeah so we're approaching Al-Hal the town right because the camp was named after the the town you see these buildings you can still see the bullets holes and stuff in them

you see the school door they had a big big flag painted with is flag and stuff on it and they painted over uh but we still i think can see some signs of the right and these people who are living here the people who we see today is it likely that they were living here while IS were in control? Yeah, all of them, actually. Right. So you see here on the right, this is where the Yazidi slave market was. So they will just gather them all here in this street, and then they will sell them.

They are the ones we captured in Sinjar. So Mount Sinjar is not far from here, but because of this fight, we can't see it. Yazidis are a minority ethnic group living in the area, and they were the targets of a genocide. Thousands of men, women and children were rounded up. Some of the worst atrocities took place at Mount Sinjar, about 40 kilometres away,

just across the Iraq border. Many of the men were killed. Younger boys were forced to fight for IS. And women were brought here and sold into domestic servitude and sexual slavery. We're in Holtown, in a narrow street. So the slave market, it would literally be on the street, just women paraded down this road.

Yeah. And until today, they're finding mass graves that they killed the Yazidi men because they see Yazidi as unfit. Where we're standing right now, there would have been women chained, and IS men would have would have what bartered for them they would have yeah it's just horrific so sickening so this is a building that traditionally

what was the building used for before do we know it was a school it was a school and then they turned it into a sharia court yeah where Where they would dish out their version of justice. Well, they sentenced people to death. Exactly. Execution, beheading. I think when coming to some place like this really brings it home simply how brutal IS were under their caliphate.

Okay, I think we'd better go in. We don't want to hang around here for too long. Right, OK, so we're now entering Al-Hol camp, or the road towards it. We can see it clearly now. It's big, isn't it? Just, it continues. Some metal fence, barbed wire surrounding the perimeter.

Al Hol Camp is a sprawl of dirty white tents. More than 50,000 people live here, surrounded by concrete fences and razor wire. It's a violent and brutal place, where IS and its ideology endures. So you see the checkpoint here are more serious also. They took the paper, they have to check with the administration and everybody if they are really expecting us or not. High above this whole region are spy planes, drones, balloons, satellites. Russian, American, Turkish.

If they care to, some intelligence operatives somewhere could probably zoom in and see the colour of the vehicle we're in. Yeah, our security is tight here. It looks quiet. Children are the only ones that seem to be out, young children. And those tents look pretty scrappy. Some of them are patched up, barely held together. The tents just go on.

They're just rows and rows and rows and rows of tents. Juwan in front of us, armoured vehicles. Now, that tells us something. Last time I was in an armoured vehicle is usually during a military embed. So they need that now to get through the camp. There were no armoured vehicles in the camp before, actually. They start to have...

Because in that last security operation in the camp, they found automatic weapons, pistols, grenades, the silent devices for the weapons. There's this quite heavy silence almost. It's very quiet now where we are. You can feel that tension. If you look at the right, this guy, the security who's sitting there, standing there, you know, a lot of them, they cover their faces. That's right. I was thinking that.

Because they're scared to identify themselves and they're living somewhere around here, they might be the target themselves, ISIS cells, just overnight going to their house, shoot them, kill them and leave. Right, OK, Fahad's here. He looks... Oh, this is the Fahad I've got good news walk. He's here, like, a happy face. Ciao. good news walk. Is he, like, a happy face? We're going to the security now. We're going to the security office now.

Right, OK. OK, let's switch off this now, the recorder. We go inside a small office on the edge of a courtyard. There are about half a dozen intelligence officers, known as the Asayish. They're courteous, but there's a heaviness in the room. They're grieving the loss of their colleagues, the eight people killed in the recent bomb strike.

They apologise. They say they can't take us into the camp today. There are no longer enough staff to escort us. I understand. I'm not going to push. But it means we'll have to renegotiate access and try to find Salman another day. As we drive out of Al-Hol, Fahad stops the car and pulls over.

Juwan points to a hill, maybe half a kilometre away. So we've just stopped outside a small cemetery, Juan. Yeah, this is a cemetery where, I mean, originally it belonged to the town Al-Hol, but there is this kind of side extension of it. It's been for the people who died or been killed in Al-Holqa. Go round there. This is the ones that are killed in Al-Holqa. Go round there. This is the ones that are buried from Al-Holqa.

You see? One, two, three. That one, that one, they're all small, they're children. So this is where the children who die in Al-Holqa are buried. And there is, yeah, just tiny mounds marked by what look like just crudely cut concrete bricks, which are marking the graves as well. It looks like actually hundreds of children are buried here. You know, I'm lost for words, actually.

I think it's really... It's evidence about how dangerous Al-Hol is for children and how it really is a race against time to bring them back. And some of them are quite fresh graves, so children dying very, very recently. Especially, you see, you know, there's two fresh little tiny graves. It's just like

25 centimetre grave. That's babies, isn't it? That's a baby, you know. Yeah. I don't know how to describe it. It's just such a dark... There are so many dark places around here.

There's the camp, there's the town, where IS carried out some of its worst acts of brutality and depravity. And then you have the fact that it's continuing. It's just, the death is actually continuing. And it's children. Next time, on Bloodlines. And she said that you guys wanted to know about a woman named Aisha and her child. A potential breakthrough in the other camp, Al Raj.

So I don't know if you wanted to know on camera or off camera. I know her personally, Aisha. There's a woman from Canada there who knew Aisha and Salman. And she seems to be willing to talk to me. You've been listening to Bloodlines from BBC Sounds and CBC Podcasts. The series concept and reporting by me, Poonam Taneja. It's written and produced by Fiona Woods and Alina Ghosh. Our investigations producer is Juwan Abdi and our contributing producer is Michelle Shepard. Fahad Fattah is our field producer.

Our sound designer is Julia Whitman. Original score by Phil Channel. Emily Connell is a digital co-host. She's a digital coordinating producer for CBC Podcasts. And Caroline McAvoy is a digital producer for BBC Sounds. Our senior producer and story editor is Damon Fairness for CBC Podcasts. Executive editor for BBC Sounds is James Cook. The executive producers of CBC Podcasts are Cecil Fernandez and Chris Oak. Thank you for listening to Bloodlines.

For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.