Uncover - S27 E5: The Crater | "Bloodlines"

Episode Date: July 20, 2024

Poonam makes the perilous journey to the last known location of baby Salmaan, a guesthouse near where IS made its last stand. But IS sleeper cells still lurk in the desert and Poonam only has one hour on the ground – can she find what she needs in time?

This is a CBC Podcast. So now this is the Syrian map. We're going to show you which routes we will take to Baghouz tomorrow. Baghouz, a farming village on the edge of the Euphrates River, where Islamic State groups' ambitions of a caliphate came to an end. So you have a clue which roads we've taken and what risks you might have and show some ways ISIS pockets could be also.

Although IS lost the war, its ideology survived and its remaining members are circling. So we are... So at the moment, we are here in the very northeast Syria. And if you see that yellow road here, that normally we will take and then continue to Hasaka. Hasaka. Okay, so Hasaka is troublesome, as we know, pockets of IS. When does it get really problematic? Well, the really problematic, basically, is all of this region. Oh God, from Ashadadi onwards. All places we will take, it's a high-risk IS. But one of the most dangerous areas, it would be somewhere around here.

It was called Busaira and Shahil. Right. It's somewhere around here. This is where most attacks have been happened and IS is active there. It's far too dangerous for us to go to Baghouz alone. We need a military escort. The SDF will dictate the route based on the latest intel. Yeah, right. This is where we will meet the SDF that they will escort us to Baghouz. Right. Where we will be with soldiers, with SDF fighters. We know what direction we're going to go in.

So I guess we just need to just prep really for everything now. Just... Yeah, make it, do the job, done, and come back safely. Yeah, exactly. We've had some scary moments during this deployment, but for you to call it scary that is something um that's why i was telling you i will wear my body armor all the trip it might it might be like 15 hours journey but i will have it on all the time one of the biggest risks, ISIS people, they're watching this road, seeing

these vehicles, you know, shoot and jump on a motorbike and run. The other thing is, biggest problem, I really hope there's no fog tomorrow. That's going to be a big, big risk if it'll be a fog tomorrow.

Because when it's fog, that is when they are emboldened to attack. The journey from here, initially, It's risky. It'll be a fight tomorrow. Yeah, because when it's fog, that is when they... Attack. ..are emboldened to attack. Yeah. So the journey from here, initially where we are, to take the Bagous, I mean, it depends the weather, the roads and the security. It might take up to eight hours, I think.

Right, OK. One way. One way. We really don't want to drive in whole this area at night. Once it's dark, it's a huge, it's a double risk. It's a double risk.

That leaves us with only one hour in Baguz. Yeah, we need to be disciplined. There can be no hanging around tomorrow. So far, I've looked in the places where Salman might be alive. I've spent time in both camps, Al Raj and Al Hol, asking about him, showing his pictures to staff there. I've tried to find out who contacted Ash and Aisha's family from Syria.

Those mysterious calls and messages saying that Aisha had been killed. With so little to go on, we've come up short. But there's one story we've heard again and again. Every woman that we've spoken to who knew Baby Salman's mum, his Canadian mother, have told us pretty much the same story, that this is the location, Mirajda, which is sort of greater Baghouz area. Well, it is as it is, my dear friend.

It is. We need to get there. I feel that the only way that I can really make sure that I've looked for baby Salman is if we go to where he was last seen. I'm Poonam Taneja. This is Bloodlines. Okay, so, um, it's dark. Very early on in the morning. And we are going to meet our SDF escort. Is this your first time back, Juwan, since 2019?

Yes. How do you feel about going back? Nervousness, I would say. I do believe this is the most dangerous area now in Syria. But also, you know, going back there and see how much has been changed, because in 2019, it was total chaos. Juwan calls the battle for Bagus the big battle. He was one of the few journalists there.

Fewer still have been back since. Juwan was embedded with the SDF for almost a month. He watched from the outskirts of the village as coalition forces cornered IS members and their families. So they were in a place that they couldn't do anything. They couldn't escape. Yeah, they were surrounded. And after that, two nights bombing and then they ceased fire

and there's the effort for the surrender and then the columns of humans came out from that little place. I've took some pictures back then. This is women leaving Baruz.

Some of them are putting their suitcases, their most essential belongings, probably the only belongings they have left. And they're taking hundreds of children with them. Really small children. This is a really, really haunting picture. So women in black and tiny children holding on to them. So many women who I've spoken to all talk about Bagus,

the children that some of them lost there, who died, who went missing, who disappeared. I think they never thought that ISIS would be defeated. You know, they always had hope when they moved, you know, from a place to another. Because at some stages it was massive, it was big. It was destruction, it was big. It was destruction, bombing, you know. And then this biggest news ever, the defeat of the caliphate, you know.

The drive to Bagus feels solemn somehow. For those of us on the outside, this is where one of the world's most cruel and brutal regimes was defeated. For those on the inside, the loss at Bagus was first a source of shame, then a tool for propaganda. The terror group's supporters portray it as an epic battle, destined to attain legendary status. IS promised to avenge its soldiers killed on the battlefield,

and its women and children killed in the crossfire. And soon, Bagus was no longer thought of as an ending, but a way to keep the hate alive, to sow the seeds of another generation. I love you. I know that. That's why I'm here. Thank you. Carolyn is 80, a wealthy widow. Dave is in his 50s, homeless, a former drug addict with a long criminal record. If anything happens to you, I will just die. I'm Sue Mitchell and this story unfolded in California on the street where I live.

High five, love to hear it. Is Dave a dangerous interloper or the tender carer he claims to be? Find out in Intrigue, Million Dollar Lover from BBC Radio 4. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Uncover from CBC Podcasts brings you award-winning investigations year-round. But if you want to listen ahead, all episodes of Bloodlines Thanks for listening. True Crime channel on Apple Podcasts. Uncover the best in true crime. It is starting to get a bit foggy. That's a bit worrying. It's going to add a lot of time onto our journey. And risk.

We're about 10 minutes away from Hauser Canal? Yes. Is that right? We are going to meet our SDF escort. They will be somewhere waiting with a Toyota pickup. On the right-hand side. We're just pulling up. We've got to...

Our guy's waiting in a white Toyota pickup. He looks remarkably like the actor Hugh Grant. Tall, slim, that foppish hair. But in military fatigues. We drive to a military base about 60 kilometres away. We arrive just before dawn and we're brought into a cold, dark room. The floor's lined with mattresses. On them, soldiers sleeping in their uniforms under piles of blankets.

We sit on the floor and wait. Soon enough, there's tea. The soldiers get up, fire up the heater. In another hour or so, our SDF escort is ready. A full convoy. Two armoured vehicles, one with a high-calibre machine gun, plus a pickup truck. One with a high-caliber machine gun, plus a pickup truck.

If you notice, this road is getting a bit empty and quiet now, once you go to this direction. Yeah, nobody is eager to travel in that direction. And that is what it's going to be like the further south we get, a bit more deserted visibility is just it's really bad it's really bad We drive on, stopping only at military bases, where we add more soldiers and more vehicles to our convoy. We left the road a while back.

We're following the SDF vehicles through the desert, over sand, between low ridges of rock. If they speed up, we speed up. If they turn left, we turn left. If there's an attack, we do what they say. Salman would have passed through this area, through its abandoned villages, taking shelter in empty homes. It's difficult because baby Salman, who was about two and a half, when he would have been making the journey that we're making, but not in the way we're making it. We're in a car,

we're protected relatively by soldiers. He would have been making that journey with his mother and baby sister. In groups of other IS families, stopping, seeking shelter, moving on, bombs, bullets, stopping, seeking shelter, moving on. Some of the kids in the camps, this is what they would have been through. And some of the children in the camps this is what they would have been through and some of the children that we've met how many people do we know who said that they

fed their children grass I think in Van Gogh's I would say all of them they're eating this sort of grass so one woman we spoke to said her kids were saved by the pomegranates that were growing nearby. That may have helped a lot of children.

So that road, this is the one that the big battle started. So you see, like, this building has some bullet holes in it. Yes, I can see it riddled with bullet holes, yeah. So here is, from here to Barruz, it would be about, I think, 90 kilometres. As we move further. As we move further, the heavier it got. And as we drive past, we are attracting a little attention. We're trying to keep our mics down and cover up the body armour. But it's hard not to be noticed in a convoy of the SDF.

Hard not to be noticed in a convoy at the SDF. See, on that shop, actually, there was some stuff written on that shop against the SDF. And some people here remain loyal to IS. We're quite keen to drive through here fairly quickly, no stopping. That shop, it was written also, it was painted over a bit, but it was written, Islamic States remain unexcending. Wow, OK.

Not even hiding it then. Juan, why has IS endured here? Why is it that people are still loyal to them? Not all people, but some. The people here, they mainly are conservative and they live in a very tight kind of a clan mentality and religious mentality. And also the poverty here is quite high. You can see how the streets or this house look like.

Clearly they're poor people also. So IS took advantage of that also too. OK, we're just stopping. We're two hours from Bagus and stopping at Omar Oilfield. It's another military base. The car barely pulls up before Juwan heads off. The soldiers stationed here know the area really well. And Juwan knows them.

He was in charge of the media here during Baghouz. We know each other quite well. Hi, hello, lovely to meet you. We're hoping they might be able to help us and pinpoint the location of the guesthouse where Aisha and Salman were last seen. Juwan met an old contact of his who he knew from Bagus when he was a base there for the BBC and he has just told us that he knows where the guest house for Aisha's widows was.

the guest house for IS widows was. This is where we suspect baby Salman and his Canadian mother lived. So that's quite dramatic that he knows where it is. We'd spoken to the women in the camp and some of them had given us a rough idea. But the fact that Alain actually knows where they were living is remarkable.

Joanne's contact joins us as our convoy pushes on towards the outskirts of Baguz. Once there, we hope to meet with village elders who can help us with our search. We've just set off from Omar Oilfield. Our military escort has actually increased. Bahad says the president won't get an escort like this, a military escort like this. Well, yeah, that's true. Last time we were travelling with this kind of escort.

It was wartime. It was full on battle. We've been driving about six and a half hours now. Yeah. I think Fahad is going to need a good rest today. His ability is so poor. You see that building? Yeah, it's completely destroyed.

This one, yeah. And it's just rubble. Yeah. And this is the scene of some of the fiercest fighting between IS and coalition forces. Once the buildings were destroyed, people lived in tents, then in the ground. By the end, there was a tunnel system for fighters.

And families dug circular trenches, 10 or 15 feet deep, covered with plastic sheeting, blankets, whatever they had. Some fled the village and tried to survive in caves in the nearby cliffs. Some fled the village and tried to survive in caves in the nearby cliffs. We're just driving on this dirt track road to get to the cliffs. We're just following this windy road. We're finally entering Baguz. This is the last place many IS fighters and their families lived before their surrender.

It's a few miles from where we're heading, the village where we believe Aisha and Salman were last living. Right, OK, so we've just come out at the base of the cliffs to get a better look at where some families took refuge. So in this area, Joanne has just told me that this was the IS market. It's completely flat now, but there are some deep craters and apparently that is where families took shelter in those dugout craters,

which they then covered with whatever they could to take shelter from the elements and the bombings. And there are still remnants of belongings here. There are a few mats. There are what looks like a baby's blanket, a pink baby's blanket, just where I'm standing. I'm just walking further.

So there's a child's shoe. I think that's about a four-year-old child. It's a very small shoe. It's black with little pink piping. It's really... I think for me, the hardest part is being aware that there were children seeking refuge here now we've seen evidence that of weapons and we've seen evidence of men who are clearly seeking refuge here who were fighting but i think the innocent victims it's when you look at

what's left of them the the shoes, the baby blankets, the clothes, and you realize that they've died here. And they were innocent victims. They were either born here by the looks of it, or their families brought them here. We know that scores of children died here. and looking at the conditions in which they died and the fact that some of them who survived are now living in squalid camps really makes me wonder. This is what they've lived through, the kids in Hull and Rog. This is what they would have survived.

Can you imagine how terrified a kid must have been should we head back yeah I think maybe it's time to go I think it's time to go what happened at Bargoose is opaque. We don't have the figures, the casualties. The area was carpet bombed.

Coalition forces say they limited civilian deaths. And there were ceasefires allowing children to escape. Though there were reports that IS used children as human shields. What we do know is that scores of children were injured or killed as the battle against IS was won. Everything is shuttered up and it's the middle of the week. It's very, very eerily quiet and not many people are here. We're now entering the village of Marajda. This is where we've been told Salman and his mother were living.

During those last final weeks and months, this area would have been bursting with people. Among them, Salman and his Canadian mother. That's another ISIS flag. Yes. That's a small one. A very small one, yeah. That's another ISIS flag. Yes. There's a small one. A very small one, yeah. That's another one there too. About three years ago, you can still see the signs and flags and stuff of IS.

Yeah, it's incredible, isn't it? So this is Marajdeh now. Right, OK. We are in Marajdeh now. OK, so now we need to find the guest house where we think Aisha may have been staying, Sulman's mother. Yes, we will get out from the car here.

I'm going to take this with me. I'm going to take my scarf, jacket. I'm going to take my scarf, jacket. We speak to the soldiers in our convoy, asking for directions to the guesthouse. We drive a few minutes down the road. The soldiers here say that there are two guesthouses where women or widows of suspected IS militants lived with their families and their children. One has been completely bombed.

And the other is a school which housed women and children. We hop out of the car to speak to a tribal leader waiting for us. Assalamu alaikum. Wa alaikum salam. Wa alaikum salam. Each village has a few guest houses and most of of them, they were destroyed and bombed. Right. So he says one of the guest houses, it here it was totally bombed and shattered okay so we're at

the site of one of the guest houses for women and children and there's nothing left here there's absolutely nothing left there's some rocks and rubble uh the the local people here say that it was bombed and they tried clearing up clearing up most of it but it's flattened there is just going to walk over these rocks there's pomegranate um and there is like a bunker, an underground, shallow... Oh, gosh. It smells disgusting. It smells. There's kind of like an underground area near it, a sort of recess on the side of the building with dirty water, shoes.

But all that we can see right now is the remains of a huge palm tree and just rubble. This guest house was flattened. I don't think anyone will survive this bombing here. No, nobody would have survived this. But I see the house in front of it also is clearly destroyed. Yeah, it's completely levelled. That guy, the soldier, was saying there was another one on the other side too. Further down? Do you think we can go see that? About 100 metres there.

Right, OK, should we just walk there? Yeah. Soldiers are coming with us. Yeah, I think they wouldn't let us walk around these areas. Yeah. Soldiers are coming with us. Yeah. I think they wouldn't let us walk around these areas alone. No, they wouldn't. Right, so we're just walking through a lane. He says there was a guest house here. They bombed it and then they cleaned it and they covered it also with this.

You can see the soil. You see those concrete blocks that you can still see. And there's a rubble here. We're just looking into it. All that's left is a massive hole in the ground and mounds of earth around it. It's been cleaned up. There was a guest house here as well. Does anybody

know if there are any survivors? Let's just ask them if there will be any civilians living by here. Is there anyone living here? Is there anyone here who lives nearby? Is there anyone here who lives nearby? Are the civilians here when the bombing happened? No.

He says once they started bombing, all the locals left. It was only the ISIS people who left here and they were targeting them. Right, OK, by that time. Yeah. Right, okay. So that was one Madhafra. Are there any more? Are there any more Madhafras here? Or are these the only two? These are the only two. That's the only two here.

Well, they've both been bombed and they've been bombed to the ground. This hole, it's a rocket. It's a rocket fully heated here. And it's about a, I don't know, 3-metre deep, 10-metre wide hole in the ground. And there is rubble, and there are mounds and mounds of earth which have been piled up surrounding it. We've just seen the only two guest houses for IS women and their children in the area, Marajda.

We've been told that they were living in a building, a house, a building, a house where IS women and their children, or particularly single women or widows and their children, were living with their children. So sorry, I'm getting a bit confused. I'm going to start again because what I'm seeing is a bit shocking. So I'm at the site where a guest house for IS women or widows and their children once stood. There is nothing left of it. It was rocket attacked, apparently. I really can't see, and certainly everyone here is saying that there were no survivors. No one, least

of all a little baby, could have survived this or a toddler. Ash wanted to know if there was any possibility that his grandson could still be alive. All I know now is that if this is where he was living, then there is no chance that he would have survived. No chance at all. I'm going to go. Next time on Bloodlines. What is your fear if you don't go back to your country, if your country doesn't take you back? I'm going to be stuck here forever without my family. My mum, my brothers.

It's a nightmare I really wish it doesn't happen You've been listening to Bloodlines from BBC Sounds and CBC Podcasts. The series concept and reporting by me, Poonam Taneja. It's written and produced by Fiona Woods and Alina Ghosh. Our investigations producer is Juwan Abdi and our contributing producer is Michelle Shepherd. Fahad Fattah is our field producer.

Our sound designer is Julia Whitman. Original score by Phil Channel. Emily Connell is a digital coordinating producer for CBC Podcasts. And Caroline McAvoy is a digital producer for BBC Sounds. Our senior producer and story editor is Damon Fairless for CBC Podcasts. Executive editor for BBC Sounds is James Cook. The Executive Producers of CBC Podcasts are Cecil Fernandes and Chris Oak.

Tanya Springer is the Senior Manager of CBC Podcasts and Arif Noorani is the Director. Claire McGinn is the Executive Director of BBC's Creative Development Unit. BBC Commissioner is Ahmed Hussain, Head of the BBC Asian Network. Thank you for listening to Bloodlines. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.