Uncover - S27 E6: The Forgotten Children | "Bloodlines"

Episode Date: July 19, 2024

Poonam makes the perilous journey to the last known location of baby Salmaan, a guesthouse near where IS made its last stand. But IS sleeper cells still lurk in the desert and Poonam only has one hour on the ground – can she find what she needs in time?

This is a CBC Podcast. It's the night of January 20th, 2022. A truck approaches the gates of Guaran Prison in the city of Hasakah in northeast Syria. The building holds an estimated 3,500 suspected IS members. 3,500 suspected IS members. A bomb blasts a hole in the prison wall. In the chaos that follows, IS militants overcome the guards and storm the jail with one aim, to take their people back.

It's the terror group's most brazen attack since the defeat of its caliphate in 2019. The Syrian Democratic Forces, the SDF, backed by US airstrikes, struggle to regain control of the prison. For ten days, they engage in intense fighting. Amidst the carnage, a voice message makes it out. I just got shot by Apache. My head's bleeding. I'm very scared. Yusuf Zahab, a 17-year-old boy brought to Syria

by his family from Australia when he was 11. There's no doctors here that can help me. I need help, please. I'm scared I might die any time. Please help me. It's a message to his family back home. Listen, please, if you can send this to BBC News or any news reporter so they can see this, please, if you can help us, please. His family get Yusuf's messages to me. In the days that follow, Yusuf says he's not the only kid caught in the crossfire. The kids are just everywhere. We're just mixed up here. There's no such thing as kids or no kids. A lot of the kids, you know, like 15, 20, I've got a lot of them injured now.

Hundreds of boys were taken to men's prisons like these after the fall of Baguz. Some are as young as 12. On the 10th day, the prison is brought back under SDF control. Hundreds are dead. Some have escaped. Yusuf is missing. Guaran Prison is about an hour from El Hol Camp. If IS can attack the prison, they can attack the camps.

That's thousands of children like Yusuf, whom IS see as their own. The longer these children remain here, the higher the risk of being taken or crossing over themselves. I'm Poonam Taneja, and this is Bloodlines. OK, you change your mind, change your clothes like a girl, change your underwear. The little boy doing this Katy Perry impression. He's four years old. Change your mind like a girl, change your clothes like a girl. Change your clothes, like a girl. Change your underwear. He lives with his six-year-old brother and their mum, Rafina,

in one of the countless tents that make up the Al Raj camp. It's so cute, I'm so sorry. This three-by-ten-metre tent has been his home for most of his life. No, eat the whole plate. I eat the whole plate. No, I just want to tell Mummy I can't eat so much food. If I eat so much food, then I'll get pop. There are stacks of exercise books lying around, coloured pencils, crayons,

a stray kitten sleeping on a pile of blankets. This tent is their world, where the boys eat, play, sleep. All day, every day. You don't want to get big and fight like this. The boys live here with their mother who came here from Guyana. She's told me they have different fathers, men they've never met, both IS fighters, one from Pakistan, one from Germany. Like many of the children around them, these boys survived under IS, survived Bagus as it was under siege, and survived the long trek across the desert to arrive here.

If Salman had survived, this is likely where he would have ended up. With boys like this, kids his own age, living here among the thousands of children the world doesn't really want to deal with. I want this one. This one's nicer. Oh, it is nicer. You're super smart. You are totally right. You're going to have to give it to me in a minute. Next to the boys' tent, there's a barren concrete pad. The foundation of a tent where a French family lived until a few months ago, when France repatriated them.

Some countries like the US, Germany, Norway and Sweden brought back mothers and children after IS was defeated. Other countries have only taken small numbers of orphans or children who had already been separated from their parents. And there are rumours that Canada will soon be bringing its mothers and children back. So far, Guyana, where the mother of these two boys is from, hasn't taken anyone back. Would you ever consider your children going back without you?

Definitely, definitely. You would? I would, I would definitely send them because they deserve everything that I had and more and I would not hold them here. It will be painful and it will break my heart and I will probably die from depression. But they deserve the best.

I want that they have a normal life. If the government just say yes and provide them, I would let them go. I know my family is willing to give them love and support and everything they need. They cannot get in the camp, definitely. Is there a fear that if they stay in this environment, that there is a risk of them being radicalized?

It is. They see guns. It's the biggest risk of them being radicalized, not just my kids, but all the kids. This is the future. These are going to be the most radical children, but who are radicalizing them? Leaving them here or making them radical? who are radicalising them, leaving them here or making them radical.

Rafina's boys are still just kids. But I've seen what happens as boys here get older. With each passing year, they're viewed as more and more of a threat. What kind of things do you do when you come to school? Math, Islam and science. OK, math, Islam and science. This is an IS recruitment video, focused on its education system. And where are you from? England.

The camera faces a classroom full of kids. A teacher questions a six-year-old wearing camo. OK, now what do you want to be when you grow up? A mujahid. A mujahid. A mujahid. A mujahid. A mujahid. A warrior. What IS built under the caliphate wasn't an education system. It was an indoctrination system.

Children were steeped in the terror group's worldview and of the punishments if they strayed from it. Kids were trained to fight and to believe in the fight. Some kids say they saw very little under IS. Others have described being forced to watch beheadings and executions. The worst stories I've heard are of children being forced to carry out killings and torture themselves. And for some kids, the indoctrination continues within these camps,

living with mothers who still believe in IS. OK, and how old are you? 13. You're from Trinidad? Yeah. Eight years after the filming of that IS video, I'm speaking to one of the boys featured in it. I'm calling him Ali.

His brother was the six-year-old answering the teacher's questions. To be clear, I'm not suggesting Ali and his brothers went on to fight. I know little of what their lives looked like under IS. For now, Ali's in Raj camp. He sits on the floor on a pile of cushions. His shoulders are hunched and his hoodie is pulled up over his head. His mum's brought him in to see me because she's worried. The guards was telling us threats that they will come and take us.

They take the boys from the mothers. So they said that directly to you? Not to me, but to other people, what I heard. So you're worried now that you're going to be separated from your mother? Yeah. The fear of a guard coming and taking him from his mother is something that scares a lot of boys in the camp, and for good reason. The SDF do separate boys from their families, eventually.

And when you think of that, how does that make you feel? What does, what goes on in your inside? I feel worried because, because if one boy do something, they take it off to everybody. See, like two boys make something and they'll get very mad and then they want to take us and I don't want to leave my wife. Okay, so you have brothers here too? Yeah.

How old are they? They're 12, 13, 14. Right, OK. And you're worried that you'll all go? Yeah. Do you know where you will go? I heard they said they carry us to some jail. And that scares you? Mm-hm.

OK. The boys won't be sent to jail exactly, at least not yet. They'll be placed in secure rehabilitation centres or detention centres, depending who you talk to. The SDF says it's a place where they send boys to be de-radicalised. To the boys' loved ones, it's a black hole they'll never come out of. I brought my daughter to speak to you also. Hi, this is your daughter?

Yeah, this is my daughter. This is one of the Trinidadian women. I've seen her and her daughter before. How old are you? I'm 16. You're 16? Yeah. The tent is hot and stuffy.

I'm wondering, Juwan, I'm wondering if you go out for a minute and she can... Yeah, sure. OK. So Juwan has just gone gone out do you feel more comfortable taking your niqab off okay right okay that would be good uh what is life in the camp like for you stressful a lot of stuff it's very stressful because you're like in a prison here. You can't do anything. You can't go out. It's very stressful. And I suppose you've lived in the camp most of your,

quite a long part of your life now. Yeah. It's hard, but my mum makes it easier. If I was here without her, I don't know what I would do. Do you have other people your own age to talk to? Yeah, there's other girls from my same country. I don't really go out much. I like to stay in my tent.

Okay, why is that? Just going outside and seeing the fences and the guards and everything, you know. It makes me remember where I am. I sometimes want to forget that. You want to forget where you are. What impact does it have on you, just remembering where you are? It makes me think of my brothers a lot because we were so close, you know. And now they're not here.

Your brothers, where are your brothers? They're, I don't know really where they are, but the guards have them somewhere in the boys' place. The boys' place is the Huri Rehabilitation Centre. It's the place Ali and the other boys are scared of ending up. Were you there when they got separated from you? Yeah. What do you remember about that?

It was hard, really hard, because we were, like, walking for a very long time. We were all hungry and thirsty a lot. And they took us, they took my brothers, put them in another car and blindfolded them and us. The women and younger children were taken to the camps, but many of the older boys were not. What do you worry about now because your brothers are not with you?

It's sad. I really wish they were here with me. It would make it a lot easier. I really miss them a lot. I don't really know what to say anymore. You sound like you've been through a lot What do you need to happen now? I want to go home I really just want to go back to Trinidad I feel like we're abandoned here I'm not seeing anything changing Every day is the same

I really just want to go home She wants to train to be a teacher. Her uncle in Trinidad is lobbying to bring her back. But the government isn't currently repatriating its citizens. What is your fear if you don't go back to your country, if your country doesn't take you back? I'm going to be stuck here forever without my family. My mum, my brothers.

It's a nightmare. I really wish it doesn't happen. Look after yourself, OK? I hope you do go back home soon. We're off to the Al Huri Centre It's known as a rehabilitation centre for boys. It's not too far away from us. It's in a place called Tal Maruf, which was heavily bombarded by IS.

How the SDF chooses which boys to bring here is opaque. Some are here because it's suspected they fought under IS. Others because they're at risk of radicalisation by their mothers. But some are here simply because they were too old by the time IS fell. There are younger kids in the camps who were born under IS, but don't remember it. But these boys are older.

There are psychologists here. They brief you not to react if the kids reveal terrible things. We're just entering the Hurie Centre entrance. I'm going to have to stop recording, putting my mic down. The Hurie Centre is a low red brick building. As we enter, groups of older boys huddle under the arches. It's quieter than the camps, tranquil almost. There are trees and a garden in the central courtyard. Huri sits in a residential area. It could almost be a school. But there are armed guards patrolling the roof, preventing the boys from breaking out, and IS from breaking in.

We're not allowed to record here today, so we sit on a low wall and chat with some boys for a while. The conditions here are better than the camps. There are dormitories, lessons, structure. But the boys are alone, away from their families, and they all miss their mums. The boys I'm meeting are from Trinidad and Tobago. A small Caribbean island had one of the highest rates of recruitment to IS, in the West.

And they tell me about their childhood, carefree days on the beach. And we talk football, the World Cup is on, but the telly's broken. And so, because they can't watch, they settle for playing a match with Juan and some of the other guys. And for a moment, these teenage boys, they're children again. Exuberant, beautiful, free. Beautiful. Free. Look at this. I found a secret room. And it's behind a trapdoor.

We're looking for someone who controls one of the largest gangs of people smugglers. He calls himself Scorpion. The top one? Impossible you can't find him. His gang has made millions from people coming to the UK in small boats. This is so cold. So cold, I want to die. Finding him won't be easy easy and it will be dangerous.

Oh, we need to get out of here. So, get in the car. I'm Sue Mitchell and this is Intrigue to Catch a Scorpion from BBC Radio 4. Listen on BBC Sounds. Uncover from CBC Podcasts brings you award-winning investigations year-round. But if you want to listen ahead, all episodes of Bloodlines are available right now. Binge listen to the entire series by searching Bloodlines wherever you get your podcasts. You can also listen ad-free by subscribing to the CBC True Crime channel

on Apple Podcasts. Uncover the best in true crime. Can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you. Hi, how are you? I'm fine. I'm good. After leaving Huri Centre, we managed to arrange a phone call with Sule. One of the boys we met there. A conversation that we can record. Sule, I just want to say one thing right up front. If there is anything that I ask you that you feel uncomfortable about answering, feel free to do that and not answer or tell me that you're uncomfortable with it.

Well, OK. How has it been since then for you? Well, it's the same thing. Every day I wake up, I eat, I go to my classes, I play soccer. Yeah, that's it. Just waiting to know when I'm going to get out of here. That's basically it. Yeah. Last time we were there, I remember seeing you playing football.

Yeah. You are incredibly talented. Oh, thanks. And I remember you asking me if you thought it was too late for you to be a professional footballer. Is that something that you're still thinking about? Of course, yeah. I still want to play football a lot. Actually, I'm getting more motivated every day, actually, I'm seeing. So, yeah, I'm actually practicing a lot as well.

Maybe one day. If one day I get out of here, I can still play, you know? You just said, if one day you get out of there. Is that something you worry about? Well, of course, yeah, because I've been here like four years now. And I don't know anything about what's happening with me. Sule says he's here because of his mum's choice of husband. They came to Syria in 2014.

Sule was 11. It was like a school break, you know, summertime around there. My mom, she got married to a new guy and we were going on a vacation. We were going to go to Egypt and see the pyramids and stuff like that, you know. And that was my first time, you know,

I was like happy to get out of the country for a bit. But they never made it to Egypt. Instead, they ended up here. Sule says he lived under the caliphate for nearly five years. It's impossible to know for sure what his life was like during that time or that of his mother. But when I spoke to her, she said she did what she could to keep Sule away from the battlefield, from being forced to fight. Yeah, she always kept me inside, you know.

And there was a point of time I was like, why does she want me to stay inside all the time, you know? Sometimes I want to go outside and play soccer or football with the other kids and stuff like that. She said, no, you can't go. And then as I got older, I understood, you know. Sometimes I want to go outside and play soccer or football with the other kids and stuff like that. She said, no, you can't go. And then as I got older, I understood, you know, because I had a neighbor. He was at my age.

I used to talk to him a bit, but one day he just disappeared. And weeks after, we heard his mother was crying. My son, he got killed, and I don't know. That's when I realized that, you know, this is not a game, you know. Sule was about 16 when he was captured by the SDF in the last weeks of the war against IS, back in 2019. He was taken to a men's prison. I stayed there for like two months, actually.

Yeah, two months. And they put me in a room with ISIS soldiers. Like, there was a bunch of older guys, you know, really, really old guys. Some injured people as well. But they're all foreigners, you know, like Russians. There's Russians, one from Morocco. There's one Trinidadian as well.

One German. Were there any other boys there? Yeah, yeah. And so coming to the Huri Centre was, I suppose, an improvement, although not freedom. Yeah, it was way better, actually, you know, because we can stay outside, we can see the sun.

You know, it's a really big difference between here and there, actually. Sule, I know that you're really close to your mum How do you feel about the fact that you were brought here? To Syria? Well, that's... I don't know My mum, every time she speaks to me She always apologises to me, you know

She's like, I'm sorry I ruined your life. I brought you here to Syria. Yeah, it's true. My life is almost like half of it is gone, if you can say it like that, my childhood. And I'm still getting older and I'm still here. It annoys me sometimes, but I forgive my mom for everything, whatever she did.

She didn't know. She's always telling me I'm sorry and I'm sorry, you know. And I want her to know that I don't blame her as well for whatever, all of this that happened, you know. Have you had any contact with your family in Trinidad? When? Since I'm here? No. So not your sister or anything? No.

Right. OK. I only get, like, other journalists, they come and they say, oh, I know your sister, and they tell me she really wants to see you and stuff like that, and that's it. But to speak to her or my brother, no, I've never heard anything from them. There have been some children who've returned to Trinidad a few years ago. What is your message to your government?

I don't know. Because, you know, I've never seen anyone from Trinidad come, came by and said anything about me. How are you? How are you doing? You know, there's nothing, nothing. Maybe they have other problems other than to, you know, deal with what they see me as a terrorist, you know. They're looking at us as terrorists, you know, that's it, you know.

But I know to myself that I'm not a terrorist. I never was and I'm never going to be a terrorist. We asked the Trinidadian government what they're doing in cases like Sule's. They say there are plans to pass new laws to allow the safe return of its citizens. But this is something that's been talked about for at least three years now, with little progress. Do you ever worry about being moved on? Is that something that you think about? Like getting moved to prison, you mean?

Yeah. Well, yeah, I'm getting older, you know. And I'm worried. I don't want to go there. I really, really don't want to go to the big prisons. Is that what the other boys are also thinking and worrying about, the older boys there? Yeah, everyone is actually thinking about that. They're getting older. What are they going to do if one of us becomes 25, 26, 27? They're just going to keep us here?

I don't know. So you still want to be a great footballer. I mean, you are a great footballer. What is the dream? Well, I would 100% be getting myself ready to play football, yeah. I want to continue my studying, you know, continue my education, you know, so I can be an educated person, yeah. And I want to see my brother's kids.

You know, he has, I think, five kids now. I want to see my brother's kids. You know, he has, I think, five kids now. I want to see my sister a lot. You know, she's the closest person to me, actually. Sule, is there anything else you want to say to me? Or ask me? I want to ask you, like, what do you think about my situation right now? What do you think? I know that's the question you asked me last time,

that it's like, have you been forgotten? You haven't been forgotten at all. There are people in Trinidad who, there are court cases going on, there's pressure on the government to bring you. Yeah, so that is what I would say to you. Okay. Okay, take care of yourself, Sule.

Okay, I will. Thanks a lot. Okay, speak soon, hopefully. Okay. At the time of this interview, it's estimated that there are roughly 600 youths like Sule in prisons and detention centres. And then there are the camps. Of the nearly 8,000 foreign nationals there,

the majority are children. Coming up on Bloodlines. It was around 1am. I feel like I was half asleep, half awake. And then these two Kurdish women came inside my tent and was like, what's your name? Where are you from? And I told them my name and I told them I'm from Canada. They're like, pack your bags. You're leaving in five hours. You've been listening to Bloodlines from BBC Sounds and CBC Podcasts. The series concept and reporting by me, Poonam Taneja. It's written and produced by Fiona Woods and Alina Ghosh.

Our investigations producer is Juwan Abdi and our contributing producer is Michelle Shepherd. Fahad Fattah is our field producer. Our sound designer is Julia Whitman. Original score by Phil Channel. Thank you. Our senior producer and story editor is Damon Fairless for CBC Podcasts. Executive editor for BBC Sounds is James Cook. The executive producers of CBC Podcasts are Cecil Fernandes and Chris Oak. Tanya Springer is the senior manager of CBC Podcasts and Arif Noorani is the director. Claire McGinn is the executive director of BBC's Creative Development Unit. BBC Commissioner is Ahmed Hussain, head of the BBC Asian Network.

Thank you for listening to Bloodlines. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.