Uncover - S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer

Episode Date: June 2, 2025

It’s the summer of 1981 and the RCMP have their sights set on Clifford Olson, who is well known to them as a career criminal and informant. As police investigate, kids continue to be taken. Kids like Judy Kozma, a 14-year-old who never made it home from her shift at McDonald’s. By the time he’s finally arrested, Olson has murdered at least eleven young people. The RCMP’s case against him is weak - until Olson proposes a deal. In the present day, Arlene speaks to family members of those he killed. 

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care when listening. I grew up in the United States, even though both my parents are Canadian. So there are certain cultural icons north of the border that seem like a quirky novelty as well as a source of pride to me as a kid. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police are a good example. Like Nelson Eddy during the Golden Age of Hollywood singing Song of the Mounties in Rosemarie. A proud noble police officer in his red surge uniform and Stetson hat We are out to get you dead or alive. And we'll get you killed. A proud, noble police officer in his red Serge uniform and Stetson hat mounted on his horse. The Mounties were the cartoon Dudley Do-Right, or square-jawed, upright constable Benton Frazier in the TV show Do South.

So what's your story? You work in a circus? Uh, no, ma'am. Royal Canadian Mounted Police. I first came to Chicago on the trail of the killers of my father, and for reasons that don't need exploring at this juncture, I've remained attached as liaison with the Canadian consulate. They were an incorruptible force for good.

Maybe a little too earnest, but effective. The Mountie always gets his man. The Mountie always gets his man. If I had a rose-colored view of the RCMP, that was also due in large part to my grandfather, Peter Worthington. Pete viewed the RCMP fondly, and the cops liked Pete. Throughout his journalism career, they had a good working relationship. He cultivated reliable sources in the Mounties and became their go-to reporter when they wanted to get a story out. Pete knew they had their faults, but he wasn't about to burn a bridge at the

expense of a scoop. Until recently, I never really gave much thought to the RCMP and what their function is in Canada. They're like the Canadian FBI, but also not. They serve as state police, sorry, I mean provincial police, but not in all provinces. Ontario and Quebec have their own. Also, in many places in the country, there are no local police forces. So, contrary to what you think of a federal authority that investigates serious crimes, it's up to the nearby RCMP detachment to do traffic stops and respond to 911 calls. It's a confusing patchwork of jurisdictions across one of the largest countries in the

world, if we're talking landmass. But when Clifford Olson was on the loose committing murder after murder, there could be no doubt catching him was the RCMP's responsibility. Before working on this story with Arlene, I thought they'd done a pretty good job. They'd caught a serial killer in a matter of months. Surely that's a sign of solid police work. But as I learned how many times Olsen slipped through the RCMP's fingers, how many victims were ignored, how many interviews they didn't do, how many times Olson was practically begging to be caught,

my opinion changed. The authorities didn't explain themselves. Not back then, and not now. This is Calls from a Killer, from CBC's Uncover. I'm Nathaniel Frum. And I'm Arlene Vynum. This is Episode 3, The Mounties Always Get Their Man. It's July 1981, and Corporal Les Forsythe and a fellow Mountie from the Burnaby RCMP detachment visit Olson's apartment.

If they were going to place a trail on him, they needed to confirm he actually lived there. His neighbors tell them he'd left town on a vacation down the west coast of California. They don't know when he'd be back. At this time, the RCMP had finally identified Olson as a possible suspect in the disappearance of children from the area. Even if he was just one in a long list of others. Various detachments now knew his name. There was no way, there was no system to link similar crimes in different jurisdictions, even if they were next door to one another.

You know, so the Lower Mainland is very small in geographic area. Even there, you had kids going missing and weeks and months going by before other detachments knew that they had a case similar to the one you were investigating. Glenn Woods is a former RCMP investigator who now operates an investigative consulting firm in Vancouver. He worked on the Olson case back in 1981, but admits he was fairly low in the chain of command. I wasn't a big city investigator here. I was a guy that was on drug squad that just moved off to a major crime. So I was kind of like the new guy on the block.

So one of the foot soldiers that did a lot of the canvassing and really my first real active role in the investigation was when Simon Partington went missing. Simon Partington was the nine-year-old boy who'd gone missing only weeks before. Because of his age and his gender and the circumstances, he came from a supportive family, all of that stuff. So immediately when he went missing, that was all hands on deck. During that time in the investigation, there was a name that cropped up, Clifford Olson. When did you first hear that name?

Well, I knew Cliff Olson because he's a rounder from the Lower Mainland. He spent more time in jail than he spent out, but he was always known for these petty crimes, B&Es. There's no information or anything I can remember where he offended in this way prior to him being in his late 30s, early 40s, which is really late for these kinds of offenders to start looming, you know? offenders to start looming, you know? So even before 1981, Olsen was well known to the RCMP. If not as a serial killer, certainly as a career criminal. And Glenn's right. In his entire adult life, Olsen only spent around

1,700 days on the outside, not incarcerated. That's just a little over four and a half years. He was first imprisoned when he was 17 in the late 50s for a break and enter. For the next 22 years he'd be in and out of custody, tallying up more than 90 convictions. Put away for robberies, burglaries, and forgeries mostly, Olsen, by all accounts a charming man, would sometimes be granted early release for good behavior. On other occasions, he had his sentence extended after escape attempts. But he kind of thrived inside.

It was in prison that Olsen honed a talent for gaining and dealing in information, a skill that could earn him favor with prison guards, parole boards, and the police. His greatest triumph on that front involved a man named Gary Marcoux. Police in Mission, British Columbia have charged 34-year-old Gary Francis Marsu with murder in the death of 9-year-old Jean Duve, whose body was found tied to a tree in a remote forested area. In 1976, Olsen befriended Marcoux while they were both in prison in the B.C. Penitentiary. Marku was facing charges of rape and murder.

The girl was last seen alive by playmates on Wednesday night, playing with a resident of a halfway house who was on parole after being convicted of rape. The case was at a standstill because the Crown Prosecutor, a man named Bob Shantz, didn't feel there was enough evidence to convict. But Olsen provided a lucky break. So this Garry Marcoux, who I know in all my life, told me about this murder and rape, so I got him to write everything out. Olsen came up with the idea to trick Marcoux into writing down a detailed confession to the murder, under the pretense that he'd help him come up with an alibi. Olsen promptly sent the confession to British Columbia's attorney general and continued to talk to Marcou on the inside, gradually gathering more evidence. Marcou eventually

pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 25 years without parole, a sensational coup for prosecutor Shantz and the foundation of Olson's relationship with the RCMP and his reputation as an effective snitch. And I got a nice letter from Bob saying that with my cooperation and everything that they were pleased I asked nothing in return, blah, blah, blah. And it was my stuff that convicted them. I can tell you that Clifford Olson was an informer to see what Clifford Olson could get and often thought he was smarter than the cops. So he may have provided information but there was something in it for him. Looking back many think that's why

the RCMP took so long to suspect Olson. The biggest problem they ran into was the the kind of refusal to accept someone they had worked with in the past as an informant who had helped convict another child killer in the late 70s, was in fact now manipulating them and murdering children himself. Ian Mulgrew is retired now, but he spent 40 plus years as a journalist, more than half that time with the Vancouver Sun newspaper. And in the years he was years as a journalist, more than half that time with the Vancouver Sun newspaper. And in the years he was working as a journalist, the term serial killer was used far less than it is today. The public didn't have the words

to describe someone like Olson. People didn't understand at the time and had not really processed or considered the idea that there were individuals among us that were preying on children. And I think that was an incredible shocking and a very horrific idea for most people to accept. He makes the point that in the early 80s, it took the community longer to come to what now seems like an obvious conclusion. Today it seems to be sort of a banal kind of concept,

but back then it was difficult for people to believe this had happened and that someone was actually out there killing children on a regular basis for their own sexual gratification. On July 22, 1981, approximately three weeks after police made Olson a suspect, he, his wife Joan, and their infant son returned from a vacation in California. They were back in B.C. and back on the radar of the RCMP. That same day, Corporal Ed Drozda of the Serious Crimes Unit of the Mounties also came back from vacation.

Assigned to the Olson case, he met up with a detective named Dennis Tarr from the local police service of the city of Delta, close to Vancouver. Tarr was the one who would inch the RCMP closer to seeing Olson as their primary suspect. I believe he was a confidential informant for Dennis Tarr. He was telling Tarr about stolen property and, you know, where he could get it. And I think what Olson was doing

was backfilling information he had from his fence about other robberies and so forth. John Daly, who was a reporter for the BCTV news station. In any event, Olson was making money from the cops, ratting out other criminals, and suggested to Tar that he might be able to get some information from bad guys about who is taking these kids. Tar, you know, really saw that something was fishy here. This just didn't square. This didn't make any sense.

Despite these rising suspicions, the RCMP and other police forces weren't able to act faster than Olson. He's brazenly abducting and murdering at alarming speed. Seven children are now dead, and in the last week of July alone, he murders his final four victims. On the morning of July 23rd, Olson spotted 15-year-old Raymond King Jr. waiting for a bus in New Westminster. King had been out looking for a summer job to make some cash.

He never made it home. On the night King disappeared, Detective Tarr paid Olson a visit. I just come back home from a kill on the day that, what the heck, that cop from Surrey come over to visit me. Yeah. Tar probed a bit about what more Olson knew about the disappearances and murders, asking specifically about the nine-year-old Simon Partington. Olson was reportedly relaxed, playing with his baby son as they talked.

Tarr left without anything substantial. The RCMP did not put Olsen under surveillance, not before Raymond King Jr., and not afterward. I'd just finished killing King at that time, and had he had me under surveillance, like he should have, King would have been alive today. The very next day, an 18-year-old West German tourist named Sigrin Arnd is hanging out at the Caribou, a hotel and pub along the highway.

She meets a man with dark curly hair, who offers her a ride. At approximately 3 o'clock, I saw this German girl walking, and I stopped and asked her what she was. She told me she was over on a holiday, on a tour trip, with some friends, a group. And I says, yeah, I says, how come aren't you with them? She said that she took the day off for herself. And the encounter follows a well-worn pattern.

Olsen picks her up and drives her to a boggy area outside of Richmond, the same place he took Simon Partington. The hammer, I don't recall what I'd done with it now, but it was thrown in the river. I then proceeded home that night and had a late supper around 7 o'clock. At Desjardins Insurance, we put the care in taking care of business. Your business to be exact. Our agents take the time to understand your company so you get the right coverage at the

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On July 25th, 1981, near a town named Agassiz, four campers came across human remains. They were soon confirmed to belong to Judy Cosma, a 14-year-old girl who had disappeared about two weeks earlier. She had been chalked up as another runaway. She was really outgoing. She loved sports. She had really bad asthma since she was five years old. So she was limited to doing certain things. She got sick quite a bit when she was eight, nine, 10, 11.

I mean, a couple of times we almost actually lost her because her asthma was so bad. Bridget Cosma is Judy's sister. She talked to us from her home in Langley, BC. Sometimes when I look back, I wish nothing. I wish she was still here. But if you want someone to pass away, I'd rather she passed away from her illness

than being brutally murdered like she was. When Judy didn't show up to her shift at McDonald's and come home as expected, it was Bridget, seven years her senior, who went out on a frantic search. I went into panic mode. I searched everywhere for her, right till the evening. My parents, they were going

out of their mind. So I drove around everywhere, everywhere in Richmond. I went to every possible friend she knew and it just went on all night to the point where you couldn't knock on people's door 11, 12 o'clock at night. When the Cosmas tried to report Judy missing to their local RCMP detachment, they received the customary response. Nothing could be done before 48 hours had passed, which infuriates Bridget still. I mean, they knew that there was children already missing. You know what I mean?

Or they already knew something was up, but they never shared it, right? With the public or, you know, they probably knew that she probably was another victim. They probably knew that she probably was another victim. After her body was found, did you know, I mean, when the police came to tell you about it, did they tell you she was murdered then? Good question. No, they just said that they had found Judy's body. And if someone in the family can go to the headquarters to come and identify some things. Was that you? Did you go?

I did. I went. My parents were too distraught. My mother was put on medication. She was not capable. She couldn't function. They didn't tell you too much. They just had this long table, I remember, with a whole bunch of stuff put out on the table. And they asked me to pick out anything that would look familiar. They didn't offer someone to help be beside you so you could imagine my state of mind. I walked on the long table and I saw right away Judy's necklace, Judy's watch, Judy's little ring. And I pointed to them and I really can't remember what happened after that.

It was extremely traumatic. Even just thinking about it, it still hurts so much. And I don't know why. Like other families we've spoken to, the Cosmas would later piece together how their loved one became acquainted with Olson. Judy had previously attended a Christmas party thrown by a friend's family, and there she'd met Olsen.

By this time, he was already involved with his soon-to-be wife Joan, but he was there on a date because he was cheating with a relative of Judy's friend. So that was the first encounter. And according to my mom, Judy had come home and told my mom that this man at the party was offering her a job, you know, that he was in construction. And if she wanted to make money, he would pay $10 an hour to wash the windows of construction sites. And my mother mother of course said absolutely not but I think that he already selected Judy at this point.

The same day that Judy Cosma's body was discovered, Corporal Ed Drozda received a call from Clifford Olson. He was shopping himself around, offering to become a paid informant. At the time, the RCMP was still haggling over the details of putting Olson under surveillance. Two days later, 15-year-old Terri Lynn Carson disappeared. Her mother reported her missing. The next day, the RCMP finally put a tail on Olson. The officers tasked with watching him noted

he was driving erratically, off habit, and at a frantic speed. He was almost impossible to track. By 1.30 p.m., on the very day they started, the RCMP pulled their surveillance operation. They assessed that Olson was already on to them. They were wrong. I never knew at one time that I was under surveillance.

Not once. Not one time that I knew I was under surveillance. The same night, at around 10 p.m., Olson went to meet Dennis Tarr at the Caribou Hotel Lounge in Surrey with a younger man in tow. Olsen thought Detective Tarr was looking to him for tips. $200,000 worth of TVs had recently been stolen in the area. He smelt a paycheck. But Tarr, with RCMP corporals Fred Mela and Ed Rasta watching from another table, was

more interested in asking about the missing children. I told him that he would have to put me on a $2,000 wage a month and I'd keep my eyes open as I was working in construction. As Olson leaves the restaurant, Tar is more convinced than ever that Olson is responsible for the string of missing young people. Now with Olsen firmly back in their sights, RCMP surveillance follows him as he drives into the night. Outside Surrey, they observe Olsen with his male friend pick up another young man and then two teenage girls looking to hitchhike. The surveillance team stops the car

and sees the two girls holding beers they say Olsen gave them. Olsen is arrested for contributing to juvenile delinquency. We don't know how, but Olsen is released by 3.30am that morning. And by lunchtime that day, he meets with Tar again at a white spot, which is a chain of restaurants in BC. And he's properly introduced to the RCMP's Fred Mele and Ed Drasta. This is Olson recording his

perspective of the meeting in 1991. We went over to the wait spot over in Delta and we discussed the hundred thousand dollars reward that was put out for a girl that was murdered and raped on Vancouver Island and I said I might have some information for them and I wanted them to put me on a payroll of $3,000 a month to gather information. After that meeting, you'd think Olsen would have said enough for the RCMP to double down on their surveillance, but they lifted their tail on Olsen. By the next afternoon, Olsen had picked up 17-year-old Louise Chartrand as she was waiting to start her shift at a restaurant in Maple Ridge, BC.

She would be his last victim, his eleventh confirmed, before his perverse luck ran out. In the blazing heat of August 5th, Raymond King's badly decomposed body is found south of the popular Weaver Lake camping district near Agassiz. He's the third missing child to be found, and only a few hundred meters from the scene where police had discovered Judy Cosma's body just 12 days earlier. By the peak of summer, there was no escaping the news that children in the lower mainland of British Columbia were in great danger. But the police were still not making it public that they only suspected one person to be

responsible. Our investigations over the past several days have now resulted in the discovery of two bodies, thought to be those of the, some of the seven children that have been reported missing. And our investigations are still underway at this moment. Former TV reporter John Daly says patience was starting to fray, as was the previously civil relationship between the media and the police. You know, you do need the cops and if they want to sort of teach you a lesson, they can feed the stories to somebody else and you get beat on it.

And, you know, so the cops were in a real power position. And then when bodies were discovered, they often didn't tell us. They'd hide that information for a week or two, in which case, you know, the TV stations couldn't get any pictures, the crime scene had been vacated, and BCTV sort of took a outside-the-box approach to dealing with the police saying, you know, you owe us answers and, you know, we're the agents of the public and we're trying to ask the questions that the average Joe, the average cab driver, the average McDonald's worker would ask in a situation like this, like,

what the hay is going on? What are you doing? You know, is there any progress? Do you have any suspects? Why is this taking so long? How come another kid has disappeared? I remember one day having a, like, almost a shouting match. I had stayed up almost all night writing a big list of questions for Superintendent Bruce

Northrop, who was the head of the task force. And they had a news conference, and I went to the news conference and basically just started hammering away. And we went at it, blow for blow. I think Northrop at some point said, you know, okay, 10 questions, that's it. I wouldn't say whether or not they had a suspect. And it was like, I guess, three days after that when they popped Olson. It was August 12th at night.

Olson had been under now constant surveillance for five days when he was observed picking up two young female hitchhikers. The Mounties followed his car until he pulled over and headed with the girls into a wooded area on Vancouver Island. Knowing the likely fate awaiting the hitchhikers, they couldn't risk waiting to see what happened. They grabbed Olson. While searching his car, in his glove box, they found a notebook. Inside the cover was written Judy Cosmo's name. I got picked up on the 12th and there was that note still sealed inside the cover of this notebook with Judy Cosmo's name in it. And I was real scared about that, really, really scared.

For the next week, the RCMP interrogated Olson intensively. After that, his name was formally tied to the murders, and it exploded in the media. I was on a day off, and I'm in the newsroom filling out time sheets so I can get paid. And the assignment editor says to me, they've caught this child killer. It was pandemonium, but it was big. And then when we finally found out that the person was Clifford Robert Olson and that he was basically a career criminal, all hell broke loose.

John's Network, BCTV naturally had blanket coverage. Police expect Clifford Robert Olson to be charged next week with at least five of nine known murders in the Vancouver area. Two youngsters are still missing and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police believe they are dead. The dead and missing youngsters range in age from nine to 17 years. The nine bodies were found nude and had either been bludgeoned or stabbed to death. The search is continuing this weekend. For the first time the RCMP confirmed they were looking at only one man. One suspect in all the cases?

Yes. What the police weren't divulging was that their case on Olson was weak. Other than Judy's name in a notebook found in the car, the RCMP had very little physical evidence to tie him to all the murders. If Olsen walked, again, it would be a grave humiliation. The Mounties and prosecutors could forge ahead with what they had on Olsen for Judy's murder, with maybe a slim chance of conviction. Or they could keep and press Olsen for as long and as far as the law would allow, to

see if he would break. But in my opinion, they were on the back foot. Later, Peter and I pored over the interrogation transcripts. Olson is combative, snapping back at Corporal Fred Mailey as accusations mount. You've got your ass up against the wall, Mailey tells Olson. Olson denies and dismisses, but you can tell that he knows. This time, he might be caught for good. It's also clear that the investigators didn't really employ any special tactics in dealing

with a psychopathic serial killer. They were talking to him like he'd robbed a bank, which makes sense given the time. South of the border, there was a gush of research on serial killers. The FBI's Behavioral Science Unit had recently completed their database of serial offenders. But this new science of profiling probably hadn't made it yet to the BC detachments of the RCMP. Apart from the number of victims, 11 confirmed, the Mounties didn't appear to approach Olson much differently from a garden variety criminal. Olson confounded these investigators, but in the end it was

Olson who gave them an avenue out. The thing is one, I put a deal together for a hundred thousand dollars, they got fuck all until I got that money upfront. They got nothing, absolutely nothing. They didn't know nothing, right? This is what he proposed. The RCMP would pay Olson $30,000 for evidence on the four bodies they'd found before his arrest. And for each murder scene he identified, or body he could help them locate,

he would receive an additional $10,000. A full confession was a given. Corporal Mele would later tell my grandfather, Pete, that at first they had no intention of paying up. Just try and scam him. That was the original thought. Once the lawyers got involved, we said, it's right out of our hands now.

Those lawyers included Bob Shantz. Once the Crown Prosecutor, when Olsen was a prison snitch, Shantz was now acting as Olsen's defense lawyer. He'd testify in a court case that he advised Olsen the police were making promises they wouldn't keep. When Olsen first told him the police were offering to pay $10,000 a body, Shantz says he dismissed it as a bunch of baloney. they wouldn't keep. Former RCMP investigator Glenn Woods will admit he wasn't in the room where the big decisions were made, but he knows his colleagues didn't have a strong hand.

Many of those victims would not have been found, and I'm not sure what the conviction rate would have been on most of those cases either. There wasn't a lot of forensic evidence. It wasn't DNA like I did there is today. I think it would have been hard pressed to put that case together and be guaranteed that he would go to jail. Like I said, I wasn't at the level

where I was being consulted or aware of what was going on at that level. That was above my pay grade at that time. Someone who was consulted, to my shock, was reporter John Daly. I got a phone call from an official in the criminal justice system who said to me, we need to have an off the record chat. To me, we need to have an off-the-record chat. And they said, okay, what if we had to pay Clifford Robert Olson $10,000 a body to recover the bodies?

What would the public's reaction be? And I said, well, it'll be outrage. It'll be, you know, over the top. People will be furious. I said, well, we're in a very difficult position. And I said, well, you know, if you get the bodies and you get the evidence, he takes you to the bodies. Because these bodies were in the middle of no place, strung out around all over the lower mainland, right?

I said, you know, I think for the family's sake, having interviewed a number of the families, if you can get their kids' remains back and get the evidence you need to make this ironclad, I said I think it's worth it. And they did it. With the approval of the province's Attorney General, the cash for bodies deal came to be. The money was to be put in a trust for his wife Joan and baby son. But the way he'd talk about the deal with me during our phone calls,

Olson saw the deal as a triumph for himself. Only himself. I'm street-wide, okay? I'm no dummy. himself. Only himself. In a gesture of either giddiness that he pulled this off, or to embarrass the police further, of either getting us that he pulled this off or to embarrass the police further. He provided details about one additional murder as a freebie. The Mounties finally got their man, but at what cost? My grandfather Pete would often remark to me that the money the RCMP paid Olsen was the best hundred thousand dollars they'd ever spent, and he probably knew some things most wouldn't because Pete had no problem getting the RCMP paid Olson was the best $100,000 they'd ever spent. And he probably knew some things most wouldn't, because Pete had no problem getting the RCMP

to talk. We were less fortunate. Glenn Woods was the only one who would talk to us. Ed Drozda hung up on me as soon as I mentioned what I was researching. When Arlene got another ex-RCMP investigator on the line, he refused to be interviewed for fear of backlash from former colleagues. And we think we know why. The RCMP hoped the cash-for-bodies deal would be seen as something to be celebrated. In reality, the deal caused such outrage and damage

that some in this country have never healed. And never will. I mean, he paid death's off. It's sickening. Meanwhile, these families, including mine, were just trying to put our lives back together, trying to find strength to carry on. Now, the whole thing is this. People are overlooking the fact that the families were in distress in this area,

the ones who have their children that were lost and have not been found for many weeks and months. So the pressure was tremendous. Now, how do you solve a crime and get it over with? What kind of an explosion did it make, do you remember? What kind of explosion was Hiroshima or Nagasaki? That's next time on Calls From a Killer. Calls from a Killer.

Calls from a Killer was written and produced by me, Arlene Beynon, Nathaniel Frum, and senior producers Ashley Mack and Andrew Friesen. Mixing and sound design by Evan Kelly. Emily Cannell is our digital producer. Additional audio from BCTV. Executive producers are Cecil Fernandes and Chris Oak. Tanya Springer is the senior manager and Arif Noorani is the director of CBC podcasts. podcast. True Crime Premium Channel on Apple Podcasts. Just click on the link in the show description.