Uncover - S8 "Brainwashed" E6: Never too late to say sorry

Episode Date: September 24, 2020

MKULTRA has entered popular culture, becoming the butt of jokes, television plot points, and the darling of internet conspiracy theorists. At the very least, the secrecy that still surrounds MKULTRA, or the CIA’s post-9/11 programs, sows distrust of governments, and medical professionals. At worst, it gives credence to online conspiracies, like Pizzagate, that end up having real world consequences. Meanwhile, the families of the victims continue to suffer. And continue to fight for justice and recognition. This is Uncover: Brainwashed. For transcripts of this series, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/podcastnews/brainwashed-transcripts-listen-1.5734335

This is a very strange and frustrating story. To have your family member stolen and murdered, then missing. I'm Connie Walker and this is Missing and Murdered, Finding Cleo. It's such a mystery, such an impossible task. Please, help us find her. Finding Cleo. If you'd like to hear more, you can find the full season wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast.

MK Ultra is now being interpreted in dance. A performance that recently toured the UK. It splices together documentary footage, pounding lights, and a steady techno beat. Like this one from DJ Rashad. MK Ultra has seeped into our pop culture. Amazon even sells a t-shirt for 20 bucks that says,

MK Ultra made me do it. If you go down a rabbit hole online, you'll see MKUltra is the darling of conspiracy theorists. Britney Spears talking to what seems like an imaginary friend during an interview. Yeah, it's kind of weird. Oh, weird. Hello. Oh my goodness. Hello. It's mind control. And a couple years ago, when Cardi B appears to go into a robotic trance on the red carpet. MK Alter brainwashing, obviously. For some, these theories could be just entertainment, clickbait.

But it can also be deadly serious. At the very least, the secrecy that surrounds MKUltra, or the CIA's post-9-11 programs, breeds distrust of government agencies and medical professionals. Which, of course, can be healthy at times, but also incredibly dangerous, especially during a pandemic. All of this also makes it easier to forget about the real lives that were destroyed through these programs, and the victims and their families who continue to struggle to this day. Because the fight for recognition? It's far from over.

You must pay! C.I.A.! You must pay! C.I.A.! You must pay! I'm Michelle Shepard, and this is Brainwashed, episode 6, never too late to say sorry. C.I.A.! C.I.A.! C.I.A.! There was a time not so long ago when the words mental hospital evoked terrible images of padded cells, stupid and brutal attendance, cruel mishandling of patients.

Let's go back to where we started this podcast, at Montreal's Allen Memorial Institute in the 1950s and 60s, where the CIA was funding Dr. Ewan Cameron's experiments on his psychiatric patients without their knowledge or consent. Dr. Ewan Cameron, one of the leading psychiatrists on the North American continent, has been the Institute's director since its inception. The CIA's MKUltra program was publicly revealed in the late 1970s. Unbelievable stories about LSD testing in prisons and brothels, the mysterious death of a scientist working for the CIA, and of course, the stories about the Allen. By 1988, nine Canadian patients successfully sued the CIA. They didn't get the mea culpa they sought from the intelligence agency, but they did win a settlement.

However, there were just nine of more than 100 patients subjected to Dr. Cameron's extreme experiments. It was so frustrating because when I first found out that I was part of an experiment, I called Joseph Rao and Jim Turner. They're the lawyers who represented the nine against the CIA. This is Linda McDonald, a former patient of the Allen. They told me to send for my file, but they also warned me that I couldn't become the 10th one to sue the CIA because I was

done in 63, and the CIA funding was pulled in 62. And I said, but the same doctor, the same experiments, if the CIA didn't fund my experiment, then who did? And Jim Turner said, that is a very good question, Linda. Maybe you better go and find out. Well, Linda MacDonald did start looking into it. So did a Canadian journalist. Salim Jiwa was writing for the Vancouver Province newspaper when the case against the CIA was underway. He wondered who else was funding Dr. Cameron. The documents that we obtained from the Canadian government

clearly indicate that some of the things that he proposed doing for the CIA were nothing new in that they had been funded back in 1953 when he developed his brainwashing techniques with federal money. Salim had filed an access to information request with the federal government. We were given a list of about 11 projects from the federal health department. The documents show that Cameron did all these things to his patients and that the Canadian government knew the limits to which he was pushing his patients. When news came out that Canada was involved, former patients at the Allen couldn't believe what they were reading.

Well, they're shocked. They say that if the government funded programs which damaged individuals ultimately, then the government should be held responsible for that funding, just as the CIA is being held responsible. Linda McDonald was 26 when she went to the Allen for an assessment. And her tragic tale sounds so much like many others of Dr. Cameron's former patients. I'd never been sick a day in my life, but I think I was just tired. I had twins in June of 1961, and for the next two years, I just never seemed to get it full health back. I was depressed, possibly postpartum depression. I walked into the Allen Memorial carrying my guitar

and an overnight bag for an assessment, and I didn't come out again for five months. Linda received intensive rounds of electroshocks, spent 86 days in a drug-induced sleep, and was subjected to extended sessions of psychic driving. And when I came out, I was a vegetable. As far as I knew, I'd never been in this world before. She could barely function and had to relearn everything from reading and writing to using the toilet. Linda couldn't care for her five children and eventually lost custody after her marriage ended. When she couldn't join the CIA suit in Washington, and it was exposed that the Canadian government was also funding the experiments, she hired a lawyer. And other former patients started speaking up too,

and a select few politicians backed them. Before Linda's lawsuit went to court, the Canadian government took some action. Finally, 15 years after the truth was first publicly revealed about Cameron's experiments, the government announced a compensation plan. Only those patients fully de-patterned and whose minds were reduced to a childlike state were eligible. 77 patients would receive $100,000 each.

Ottawa had been resisting paying compensation, and today's decision, it said, is not an admission of liability, rather an expression of compassion for the victims. And just how many of those victims may still be alive today, no one knows. The payouts are known as ex gradia, which basically means the government would give the money without admitting any responsibility. Over 300 patients applied, but many were turned down. Some were told they were not damaged enough. Some were told their medical records were lost. Others didn't even know that compensation was being offered. So we had started to work on it, and we sent in our file and this and that. Then they came out with, you have to be alive to get paid.

Remember Alan Tanney from our first episode? His father was compensated, but just barely. My father was on his deathbed. And when they finally said, okay, we are ready to start giving out money, I called them. They said, you better get here fast. I went from my office to the airport. Okay, I stayed at a friend's house overnight,

and I was there like at 9 o'clock in the morning when their office opened up and the next day my father died. Wow so you were you had to go from Montreal to Ottawa? No Toronto. Oh Toronto. Toronto. Okay. You know I go there they give me a check I go right back to the airport I get back to Montreal and I stuff it in the bank before my father's account is closed. What time of day did he pass away? Later in the evening. Were you able to tell him that this had happened? No, he wouldn't have understood it anyways. For many, this did not feel like the

last chapter. Give me a little bit of a tally of what she went through. Well, they gave her all the drugs. It was about four or five barbiturates and amphetamines at a time. It was a high concentration in the 30 days. And then in the sleep room, she had so many shocks, I couldn't get over it. This is Lloyd Schreier. He's come to our studio in Toronto, his arms full of documents, including his mother's medical records.

I really appreciate you coming in. Lloyd's mother, Esther, did receive ex gradia payments from the Canadian government. Here she is interviewed by BBC's Frontline Scotland in 2004. The first thing I remember was waking up and seeing my husband and asking him, who are you? And he said to me, I'm your husband. Husband? Am I married? said to me, I'm your husband. Husband? Am I married? Yes, I'm your husband. And I remember thinking, who am I? I had a new baby and I didn't know what to do with the baby. And I did have help. I had a nurse, a baby nurse, but she had to have a day off. And she left a book, and I'll just give you a little example. When you hear the baby cry, go to the room, pick up baby, and step by step how to feed the baby, and that was very frightening.

Esther was pregnant when she received Dr. Cameron's treatments, and Lloyd was that baby. From March 5th to March 18th, she had 92 electroshocks. And if you look in six days, I believe, she had 12 a day, so it was 72. And I think that's just crazy. Like, it's insane. The third paragraph down, it says, on March 12th. Yeah.

Considered completely depatterned in that she was incontinent, mute, had swallowing difficulties, accumulation of mucus. Yeah. I don't think it was fair to do that to a developing fetus, knowing that she was pregnant, for me to go through that. It's kind of amazing you can survive that, or definitely that the pregnancy lasted. Yeah. You know, you kind of wonder. I'm amazed that I came through the way I did with all this. I don't know what

I would have been. I don't know if I would have been smarter, stronger, taller. It was the time of brain development. Like, I'm just surprised that I came out like that. I didn't think anyone can come out going through all that. Esther died of cancer in 2017 at the age of 84 with her son at her side. Lloyd has repeatedly tried to get compensation for himself. His mother's medical records show Dr. Cameron was well aware that she was pregnant. But it was deemed that Lloyd was not a patient and therefore doesn't qualify. But it was deemed that Lloyd was not a patient, and therefore doesn't qualify. He is still lobbying politicians to find someone who is willing to champion his cause.

In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news. So I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with season three of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.

On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. Tonight we report on a secret CIA research project carried out in Montreal in which mental patients felt they were used as the CIA's guinea pigs. Two Canadians who feel the past 20 years of their lives were damaged by the CIA's guinea pigs. Two Canadians who feel the past 20 years of their lives were damaged by the CIA tell their stories publicly for the first time. The CBC's investigative program, The Fifth Estate, has been relentlessly chipping away at the MKUltra story since 1980.

Nine Canadians who were the unwitting victims of CIA brainwashing experiments are suing the United States government. But so far, the Canadian government has done nothing to help them. One evening in 2014, a woman named Alison Steele was watching an old episode of The Fifth. Alison's mother, Jean, had been a patient at the Allen in Montreal. She was admitted for what is now known as postpartum depression. Alison was just four years old. I grew up knowing that my mother was ill. I just thought that was

the way my mother was and I felt embarrassed and I felt ashamed and I was angry with my mother my whole life because she didn't seem the same as other moms. And my father had tried to get compensation and he was denied. The compensation request to the Canadian government was denied because Alison's father couldn't get his wife's complete medical file. The hospital said the files were missing.

By the time Alison was watching the CBC program, it was two decades later and both her parents had died. They were talking about you and Cameron in the Allen Memorial. So I thought, let's go for it. And that's when I phoned up Mr. Stein. That's Allen Stein. He's a Montreal lawyer who has been involved with these cases for decades. He told me what I needed to do,

how I needed to get the medical files. This time, all the files were found. 300 pages of her mother's bedside notes. Legal-sized, double-sided. A heart-wrenching account of what she went through. This is where I got to know my mother. What happened to her. The horror that she went through. Pacing the hall this morning saying, I'm just a prisoner. I feel like Jesus on the cross. Can feel the nails in my hands and feet. It's just like being buried alive.

Somebody, please do something. Allison took the Canadian government to court and they quietly settled with her, giving her compensation if she signed a non-disclosure agreement. Later that year, CBC parliamentary reporter Elizabeth Thompson was going through Canadian government financial records when she seized upon a line. Quote, Out-of-court settlement to person de-patterned at the Allen Memorial Institute

between 1950 and 1965. Name withheld. Okay, so back in 2017, we found out that Elizabeth Thompson had just discovered that the government had compensated another former patient of the Allen Memorial Institute. This is Lisa Ellenwood. She's a producer on Brainwashed, and doing this podcast was her idea. Lisa works with the CBC's Fifth Estate, and a few years ago she began her deep dive into MKUltra. We reached out to Alison Steele also,

and then started to dig around to see if we could find some new voices, people who'd never spoken publicly about their experiences before. So after the story aired, there was this huge flood of emails and calls from people who wanted to talk to us about their stories. They said, we think that our family member was a victim of the experiments. We want to access our medical records and we want compensation. It was really quite devastating to go through the emails and listen to the stories and see the similarities. to the stories and see the similarities. They lost their parent or their husband or wife and the families broke apart. And there was one woman who had six children

and all of the kids had to go to foster homes. There were stories about children who stopped their parent from committing suicide when they were 12 years old and stories about children having to watch their mother or father in this horrible mental state where they really couldn't function. I guess it really gave you a sense of how generational this trauma is. For sure. I mean, when you take away the mother or father of children, it just has repercussions through

their lives. What happened when all these people emailed you? What were you able to do? So I asked Alison if it would be okay if I sent her the emails and the phone numbers, and she agreed. And so what happened was she gathered all these people together and they decided to create a private Facebook group. And so they then decided to all get together and meet in person in Montreal. And they did that in May of 2018. Today, we have come together to form a coalition of victims and families of victims to support one another, inform one another, and expose this evil happening to all Canadians and the world so that it may never happen again. So it was this really, I think, cathartic moment for them all. People gave speeches, told the stories about their relatives, showed photos. There was

lots of tears because they just felt that not enough people really knew about what had happened this moment in Canadian history and the real impact on generations of families. Our group evolved because each and every member has been affected in their own personal way. We all want to speak out about the deception, anguish and pain we and our families have suffered in the name of our loved ones who were horrifically treated in a non-human way by Dr. Cameron at the Allen Memorial Institute in Montreal. They decided they would go to court to try to force the Canadian government to apologize. And Alan Stein agreed to represent them.

Hi, how are you? Good, how are you? Good. We have an appointment with Alan Stein. Hi. Hi, how are you? I'm Michelle. It's nice to meet you.

Hi, okay. You know Lisa? I sure do. Hi Lisa, how are you? Hi, how are you? I'm Michelle. It's nice to meet you. Hi, okay. You know Lisa? I sure do. Hi, Lisa, how are you? Thank you. We're in Allen Stein's Montreal law office to hear the latest on the case. In the middle of the table is a banker's box brimming with files. Look at this. MK Ultra.

Are you tired of talking about it? No. Well, I've lived with it for so many years. Just to remind you how long this has been going on. Well, Alan Stein's late father was also an attorney. And he represented one of the MKUltra patients, Lou Weinstein. Now, Alan, decades later, is still fighting. He knows these cases so well, he seems to anticipate my questions before I've finished

asking. In your direct action, what is it you're trying to get the court to... Compensate the families. The families of those former patients of Dr. Cameron who were treated as guinea pigs and who were experimented upon. But this is outside the compensation that was given to those under the... Outside the $100,000 that was given to the actual victims, the actual former spouses, our parents of the families, our siblings, okay? Because here's what my conclusions say. Condemn the defendants, which is the Royal Victoria Hospital, the McGill University Health Centre, and the Attorney General of Canada. How can you show that the government of Canada knew about this,

that they bear this responsibility? Is the threshold that you have to prove that they knew what was going on? Not necessarily. If they didn't know, they should have known. And they should have taken certain steps to find out what the funding was covering. So the negligence of giving this funding but not having the oversight is enough to get compensation? That's my opinion.

Okay, and that's what you have to convince the judge of. What do you give your chances on being successful? I'd say 50%. Why? Because we have an uphill battle and the government is contesting the proceedings vigorously. What's their defense in general? Their defense will be... it's too late now. So is that the Canadian equivalent of statute of limitations? Yes, it's too late now. So is that the Canadian equivalent of statute

of limitations? Yes, it's been too long. Okay. When you're talking to the families, is it the compensation that they're looking for mainly, the financial compensation, or are they looking for something else through this legal action? We're looking for both, compensation and an apology by the government, which they never had. And no time did they apologize to the families or to the former patients of Dr. Cameron who were treated as guinea pigs. Well, thank you. Thanks.

Well, a lot of, like this over here, has changed a lot. Yeah, I'm sure. It's been renovated. I'm sure. Yeah. Alan Taney had not been back to the Allen Memorial since he was a child. I'm amazed this is the first time you've come here.

Why would I want to come here? So I can remember an event that had such a huge impact on my life and not for the better. Of course. You know, so. It's understandable that Alan would not want to return to a place where his father had endured so much. I wish I was angry enough to, but that's gone.

You know, it won't help. But history does need to be revisited, so we're not doomed to repeat it. A portrait of Dr. Cameron still hangs in the halls at the Allen, along with other past directors. But his name has been removed. And McGill University doesn't mention the hospital's shameful past and Dr. Cameron's abuses in its official history. Yeah, have a good day. Thank you. official history. We asked the university why there was no mention of this past on their website.

A spokesperson would not answer the question directly and responded only that they are truly empathetic to those who were impacted. Dr. Cameron was once the president of the Canadian, American, and World Psychiatric Associations. The Canadian Association has said nothing about his experiments. The American Psychiatric Association did apologize, eventually, and this was thanks to the intense lobbying of Dr. Harvey Weinstein. The World Psychiatric Association did not specifically condemn Cameron, but they have recently addressed the issue of torture. On October 16, 2020, the WPA ratified a new code of ethics with its strongest wording

yet. Psychiatrists, it states, do not participate in the abuse of psychiatry for political purposes or in torture. The code forbids psychiatrists from taking part in interrogations that help the military or civilian agencies. When we talk about the government being behind MKUltra and the torture programs that followed, it sounds like a singular entity. But there is never just one person to blame. There were thousands of people involved. Spies, politicians, top medical professionals, administrators,

from the Cold War until today. There have been reports and committees and commissions and lawsuits that get settled out of court, and there have been courageous whistleblowers or conscientious subjectors. But the message has remained remarkably consistent. These experiments, these efforts at mind control and interrogations, they may have been unfortunate, but no one needs to be held accountable. they may have been unfortunate, but no one needs to be held accountable. Not for the torture of prisoners that followed the 9-11 attacks. Not for the involvement of CIA agents in the torture throughout Latin America in the 1980s. Not for MKUltra.

No more denials! Release our files! No more denials! Release our files! No more denials! Release our files! There are actually now two lawsuits launched against the Canadian government by the families of those experimented upon at the Allen. They split after disagreeing on legal tactics, fees, and who to target. We will continue to fight until we are heard. We will keep fighting because we know that no judge could look at our case and say sorry too late because the damage is still so fresh today. That's Allentani's sister, Julie, at a recent protest on Parliament Hill in Ottawa. She's the lead plaintiff in the second lawsuit.

This one's a class action suit and also goes after the CIA. For those of you that don't know me, my name is Jeff Warren, CNN, and I'm a lawyer. I know that this court case is important to everyone here, and I'm truly honoured that you've allowed me to speak for you in the legal part of your battle for justice. And they were the ones who arranged the protest on Parliament Hill. I would like everyone to know that we continue to work on your case, but I also wish to impart that we have a long road ahead of us. The U.S. government has made things very difficult for us.

This fight will not be simple, but we are determined, and rest assured, that we will press on. Everyone needs to hear your voices, and everyone needs to know your stories. Yes! And the message that I want to bring to our government is this. It is never too late to say sorry. Maybe we can achieve this through rallies like this.

Maybe we can achieve it through legal action. Maybe we can achieve it through other means. And maybe not at all. But one thing is sure. We are all here fighting for it and we are not going to stop until someone up on Parliament Hill says the words I'm sorry we contacted the Canadian government to see if their message had changed would they take responsibility for Canada's role in funding experiments on psychiatric patients? They responded by saying they have, quote,

taken action to provide assistance to those affected. Those affected would disagree. Please don't close your eyes! We want love to Brainwashed is written and produced by Lisa Ellenwood, Chris Oak, and me, Michelle Shepard. Sarah Melton is our associate producer. Sound design by Cecil Fernandez. Our digital producer is Emily Connell. Artwork by Ben Shannon. Thank you. And we'd especially like to thank Angela Bardosh and all the families who have taken the time to talk and trusted us with their stories. For discussions, posts, videos and pictures, find us on social media. Just search for CBC Podcasts on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. media. Just search for CBC Podcasts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. And if you're looking for another show to listen to, subscribe to Uncover, an award-winning investigative series from CBC Podcasts. Each season investigates a different story. The most recent season, Dead Wrong,

follows the 25-year struggle of Glenn Assoon to prove that he was wrongfully convicted of murder. of Glenn Assoon to prove that he was wrongfully convicted of murder. Season 6 dives into the satanic panic of the 1980s. And Season 5 is hosted by me as I reinvestigate the murder of 15-year-old Charminia Nundeville. Find Uncover on CBC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts. Brainwashed is produced by CBC Podcasts and The Fifth Estate Our theme song is Desert Novel by Key Witness You're the greatest of your time Turn your temperature to mine Could we stop

the look of shame Fuck the book that borrowed his name guitar solo Carewired against love Ranging about the side of the road Bring your lamps out Oh Sounds take like empty hearts So I'm stoned way to die © BF-WATCH TV 2021 For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.