Undoctrinate Yourself - #14 - Shannon Mayernik

Episode Date: March 12, 2025

Shannon Mayernik is an herbalist, plant medicine maker, and owner of Mayernik Kitchen, A Modern Day Herbal Apothecary located in Pompton Plains, NJ. Shannon and her husband Matt have an herb farm where they grow over 60 medicinal botanicals that they use in the formulation of their products.⁠Shannon's Instagram⁠: https://www.instagram.com/mayernikkitchen/⁠Mayernik Kitchen's website⁠: https://www.mayernikkitchen.com/⁠Support the podcast by becoming a patron www.patreon.com/undoctrinateyourselfpodcastFollow the podcast on Instagram ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@undoctrinateyourselfpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow Dr. Alexis on Instagram ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@dralexisjazmyn⁠⁠

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Undoctrinate Yourself podcast. Today, I have a special guest for you. This is Shannon Marnick, who is the co-founder of Mernick Kitchen in North New Jersey. And the name might not imply this, but she's an incredible herbalist. And in addition to having a kitchen, so to speak, they're concocting a lot of herbal remedies and just like magical products that I myself have been using frequently as I've been engaging in my terrible studies too, and I've been really enjoying them. And so I reached out to her to come on the show because I really want to hear about how she got into this work and has been making such incredible

products. But for now, welcome, Shannon. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to chat. Yes, me too, me too. So maybe you can tell us just a little bit about how you got into this work and what you do just like at a very high level and then we can kind of get into the weeds, so to speak. Yeah, yeah. So I'm an herbalist and plant medicine maker and probably started about 15 or so years ago. I took a class at a herb shop up in Chester, New York, and literally fell in love with the idea of it. I had never grown up with anything like this. We didn't garden at home. So this was all brand new, information, like this was a whole new world to me. And I left that class that evening, came home and told Matt, this is what I want to do.

I had been working in publishing for about 12 years before I left my full-time job in the publishing world to work on a local farm for about three years. And that's when we really started getting, you know, Marinette Kitchen up and running. We've had the business for eight years now, but it was always kind of like a side hustle, kind of just dabbling in it because I had fallen in love with the idea of it, but was still very new and just, you know, was comfortable with that full-time gig that I had going publishing company. So, but now it is now, I mean, I really can't picture myself ever doing anything else ever again. There may be different aspects of what I'm doing, but plants are always going to be my driving force of, I don't even want to say work, but work.

I love that, especially because so many people, I feel like, are working jobs that they're not inspired by and not lit up by. And this is just a testament. Like, you could have a comfortable job that you're okay with. But once you find that thing that really lights you up, that pursuing that can and will serve you financially and just like at an existential level, too, to make that transition. and like kind of a leap of faith to a certain extent because it can be scary. But it makes sense also started as somewhat of a side hustle, get things kind of moving the infrastructure in place and then ultimately with the goal of transitioning to that fully, which that's a beautiful testament to what you've been doing.

So thank you so much for sharing that. I'd love to hear a bit about did you start like growing at a small scale first to kind of test the waters and see how you like how green your thumb was basically? Yeah. So when Matt and I first got together now almost 20 years ago or so, when we had an apartment, he always said, you know, I want to grow. He grew up having a garden with his parents. So he was familiar with growing. He grew medicinal herbs. He grew veggies, things like that. So it was always in his mind, I want some space to start growing. So when we had our first apartment, we literally were growing in pots right on like the ledge out our back door. So it was nothing fancy,

you know, literally just oregano and basil and things like that in pots. And then when we started looking for to buy a home, he had very much so, you know, expressed that he wanted some sort of land so we could start gardening. So we live maybe on a half an acre. So it's not even a ton of land, but it's enough land for us to garden. So that's where it's all started in our backyard. growing medicinal herbs. And one day it was just like he came in. He said, I have this overabundance of oregano. What can I do with it?

And that's kind of how Marinette Kitchen started over a lot of oregano. So it's just, you know, we, that's when the wheels started turning and saying, like, we could start, you know, creating and maybe selling some of these things to folks and start educating people because that's probably one of the biggest things we do right now is educate, you know, as well as our product line. But it just, it really, that's what kind of snowballed it. So then I started getting more into the growing aspect of it, of the teaching aspect of it. And then, you know, years later is when we, we finally did get our commercial kitchen with the retail space. So it took time. I mean, it wasn't like a, hey, let's do this and just start doing it.

This was years and years of studying and growing and creating products and selling them at a very small scale, like out of our, you know, home, out of our kitchen. And then working our way up to, you know, having a retail space with a commercial kitchen where everything is now housed. Amazing. I'm not sure I realize that you had an educational component to your business, too. Can you share a little bit about that? Yeah. So, I mean, we teach, we do workshops in person. We have two online courses. They're short courses, but two different courses. And then we also run a 10-month herbal herb farm apprenticeship, which is more my, he does that. So it's from February to November where they're starting seeds, and then it's taking you through the whole process of, you know, growing, harvesting, making medicine, learning about the plants and how they work energetically and all that stuff.

So that's a 10-month program that we, you know, opens up in February. That's amazing. How often do they convene? Like, is it in person, I assume? It is, yeah. So it's a, there's two cohorts, but they meet once a month. So folks could choose what set of dates would work best for them. So they meet once a month. The first three months are here at our house because this is where we actually start all of our seeds. And this is where our greenhouses are. And then the remaining seven months is up on the farm. Oh my gosh, noted. That actually would work perfectly for me. I'm a little bit of a hike away, but like it would be worth the drive once a month to be involved in that because I would really love to start growing some stuff here, even though I don't have a lot of property,

but I would just, you know, like to begin cultivating and develop relationships with plants in that way. Because I feel like when you're growing them yourself, it's just like a different level of like your energy and like your relationship with the, with the botanical. Oh, yeah. You have such a different connection then, and I'm not saying we don't purchase from other growers because we don't grow everything we use, but the plants we do, like, grow, it's such a different connection with working with them, creating, you know, the different products and then using them. Mm-hmm. So when you first started growing, you said oregano kind of catalyzed your journey. Were there any other plants that were involved early on that, like, are maybe a bit easier for

people to start growing or don't take too much, like, nuance or care? Yeah. So we always encourage to start with your typical kitchen herbs, right? Everyone thinks sage, rosemary, oregano, thyme, peppermint as your kitchen herbs, right? We use them when we cook. They are some of the most powerful herbs medicinally also, so you could use them interchangeally from, you know, culinary type herbs to medicinal herbs. And those are some of the best that grow and could grow in pots on your balcony or on your patio, you don't need to have raised beds or you don't need to have specific, you know, places around your home to grow these plants. So we always encourage to start like with those and just start working with them and think about using them in different ways other than just throwing some,

you know, save your time with your chicken dish, you know, maybe make a tea with it or use it as a steam if you're really congested. So these herbs are easy to grow because a lot of them are perennials. so they're very hearty. But, you know, it's incorporating them into the different ways that people are just like, oh my gosh, I never thought of that. And even if you can't grow them, if you're living in a, you know, 300 square foot apartment in New York City and you don't have any place for plants, you could get them at your local farmer's market or things like that, even, you know, a grocery store or a bodega, anything,

and you could use those, you know, they're still medicinal. So we don't want anyone to ever be, like, discouraged either if they don't. have a place to grow. But if you do, I would say, you know, your kitchen herbs would be some of the first to start with. Amazing. I definitely want to get more into like the like very high resolution talking about like which plants to grow, how to prepare them. But first I'd like to zoom out a little bit and circle back to your training. Could you share a little bit about like where you did your herbalism training if you had any teachers that really stood out to you and kind of like a high level what you learned in those courses that you then took on into your business?

Yeah. So the first class I went to that I spoke about earlier that just opened my whole world into plant medicine was taught by Robin Rose Bennett. So she's a local herbalist here in northern New Jersey. And she does a three-year apprenticeship program. So I started taking classes with her pretty regularly. She kind of likes to get to know folks before they get into the apprenticeship. So she encourages you to take classes with her just, you know, to see her teaching style and see if he'd be a good fit. So I did, you know, trainings with her at the New York Open Center in the city. I did local ones where she'd hold a talk at a library or something like that. So it was very much so hands on when I first started just attending different workshops, classes, things like that, to get my, like just to start exposing myself to more. And then I did get accepted into her three-year apprenticeship. So I did that from 2015 to 2017 was my three. seasons with her. And then during that time, I also signed up for the Chestnut School of

Urban Medicine program, which is out of Asheville, North Carolina. That was all digital. So that was a complete change of what I was doing with Robin, because Robbins was, everything was hands on. We were at our house. We were in the woods picking plants. You know, everything was very much so right here. And then the online course was very much, you need to be. discipline to sit down and go through the videos and the coursework and stuff like that, but I enjoyed having both sides of it. So I would say those two are probably my two largest courses and, you know, in-person apprenticeships that I had done. I've taken many classes just from other local herbalists or online courses. The Herbal Academy is a really good starting point for

folks. They have a great beginner program and then you can kind of move your way up into, you know, intermediate and advanced. So I always suggest, though, and this is the way I learn some may learn differently. I learn so much more when I'm hands on, when I'm in person, when I could literally be feeling the plants and smelling the plants and tasting the plants, you know, just rather than looking at a screen of a diagram of rosemary. Totally. I think especially, like you said, if you're trying to understand like the energy of the plant and how to work with it, I think that aspect is going to be irreplaceable at some level in the training. Maybe not in the beginning, but at some point it would make sense. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Did you have any experience with herbal medicines growing up? Like did your family ever use anything like that? No. I was your typical just like, you know, we over-the-counter medicines when we weren't feeling well. Well, you know, my mom would slather me with VIX if I had congestion. You know, it was just a very much so typical upbringing.

We didn't guard. My parents didn't really garden. Typical meat and potatoes type diet. And it wasn't until I graduated college and started realizing, okay, you know, I need to first, my first thing was just eating healthier. and then once herbs was, you know, introduced to me, then everything changed. Even just like being outside more, getting more sun, things like that that I never thought about.

But being an herbalist and being in nature constantly, it just kind of comes with that role. So then I became a lot more aware of different lifestyle changes that are now just my lifestyle, you know, that's just habit at this point. I mean, that's incredible when you kind of. have found your path or calling and then optimize so many other aspects of your life just kind of as a result of following that path, which is so great. I mean, so many people, again, like, occupational issues are probably one of the leading cause of health issues. Oh, yeah. Some stress or just like sitting in front of students all day. Yeah. Totally, totally. So that's,

that's incredible when you can really marry your profession to also be supportive in your health. That's like a win-win for sure. And it really, I mean, like, now there's days I don't get out and I feel it. I'm like, I need to, even if it's just 20 minutes, I sit in the backyard or on the paddy, you know, like just that time outside connecting, listening to the birds, watching the sun, whatever the case may be. And when I was working a full-time job in an office, sitting at a desk just like this for hours on end, I felt like I got to work when it was dark and I left work when it was dark. so I didn't go outside, you know? Yeah. And I can't even imagine that lifestyle right now.

Totally. I mean, once you kind of make that transition, you realize like how much better your body feels and how we're kind of meant as a species to be in nature. Of course. Move, yeah. Yeah, we came up in nature. Like, the way that we're living in the modern world is just completely against the evolutionary environment and what's supportive to our biology.

So, yeah, I think once. people have that embodied realization by experiencing it themselves. It's like, wow, you can really see the contrast between the way that so many people are living their lives and the way that we're kind of meant to be. Yeah. Absolutely. You also, I saw on your website, and I'd love to hear a little bit about your training in culinary nutrition. I'm a little unfamiliar with that as like a field. I was actually in culinary school as well before I transitioned into science, but it wasn't culinary nutrition. So can you tell us a little bit about what that means and what your training looked like? Yeah, so that was also, I did a lot when I like kind of first realize I need to, like, I felt the shift.

I know I was shifting personally in my career, everything. And I just kind of like dove in to all of it. But it was a, it was an online course taught by Megan Telpner. She's based out of Ontario, Canada. So it was a 14 week, pretty intense course where we were learning how to. to incorporate food, or not even to incorporate, but to start using food smartly. So it was incorporating, you know, herbs. It was incorporating whole food. It was incorporating, you know, not process or anything like that. So it really was very much so nutrition based, but it also

was lifestyle based. So this was another way for me to kind of see that shift where I was like, okay, you know what? I'm not getting any younger. Um, so I need. to like start really taking care of myself. So it was it was a great class. We had different cooking assignments. We had partnerships where we had to do assignments together. We created recipes. We tested recipes. So it was definitely different than just herbs. It was a lot of food base, but the way she incorporated herbs, a lot of Arabic type practices. So it was, it was, I loved it. I learned a lot from it. I still use her two cookbooks very often. So that was a great way too. And that was one of the first like courses that I took online that I was very, you know, into. I, I tend to love to

take courses, but don't always finish all of them. But this was when I really, I mean, like, we were getting graded. So I knew there was a lot more to it than just, you know, watching some videos, completing it and then moving on. It was, you know, I was being held accountable, which I I love. So it was a great course and it just continually, you know, and reinforced what I was doing, what I now am, you know, teaching within the herbal realm to people because so much of it comes back to food. Yes. I mean, it's literally the building blocks for our entire body. At some point within seven years, every cell in your body has turned over at least once. And in order to do that, we need the right nutrients coming in, micronutrients and macronutrients. And so, yeah, that can't be overstated. Like,

food as medicine is just such a miss. I mean, it's, in some ways, it's common, a common phrase to say that food is medicine, but it's not like embodied in any way with the modern food environment. So there's a lot of disillness there. You know, when I talk to people that come into the store, a lot of times that's the first thing I ask. And it's almost like they're shocked, like, why aren't you just telling me about an herb I could take? You know, I always ask about food and movement. Those are the two things that we could easily take full control over for ourselves and our families. So those are the two that, you know, we need to look at those first because if your diet is crap and you're not moving, you know, herbs may help, but they're not going to support you like they would if you had a, you know, a healthy diet or you got out for a walk every day or anything.

You know, the herbs work with you, but you can't just be a mess and expect the herbs to do the thing. Totally. I mean, this is just, I think, a reflection of this weird expectation that we have in society where it's like we go to a doctor and they just give us a drug and then we take that drug and that we don't have to do anything else. We just take this drug and like that is supposed to fix our problems versus actually taking responsibility for what you're creating in your life and your health and then actively change. choosing to do different things. And I think with the herbal approach, so many people are just like moving their, like shifting their perspective from like medical drugs to herbs, but they're using the same mindset where it's like, I'm going to take this herb for this thing. Yep. And it's going to work immediately. And it doesn't because everyone is just so different and everyone's bodies are

made up so differently that, you know, what could take me two weeks to see an improvement or maybe not an improvement because everything is not going to work, you know, could take you three, four days. So, and that's another thing that's, it's very hard to forget people to wrap their minds around that where, oh, if I just start taking a tincture, it's just not going to work. Like, you need to kind of let the herb get acclimated in your body. Totally. And then there's like the whole layer of constitutions, like maybe something isn't actually meant for you. Maybe you would do better with this other herb that's like plated, but has a slightly different energetic quality. And so there's like a whole layer of complexity there that actually I think is amazing because so,

often in the modern medical approach, it's like there's this one drug that's like just given to everybody for this condition that has this condition, but there's no level of nuance based or like tailored approach to the individual, which we can really access with herbs. There's so many options in the botanical world to choose from and they all have different qualities that may or may not work with an individual's body, which is, which makes it fun, but also like very personalized. It is. It is. And, you know, sometimes we have people coming in that, oh, my boyfriend's, brother's uncle's, you know, cousin has this issue. What can I get for him?

Well, I know nothing about this person. You don't know anything. You know what I mean? Like it's so far removed, but it's just, everyone is just so different. So it does become such a personal, you know, like game plan almost to get the herbs to work for you. Yes, absolutely. I also want to circle back to one thing about your child. training before we dive into more of the details of like different herbs and how people can use them.

But I also saw on your website that you had this master food preserver title. And I really want to learn about that because that's something that I've been increasingly interested in is like growing my own food, but then also being able to preserve it in a way that can last for, you know, a season or. Yeah. Yeah. So I did a of course. It was a three day course up in Cornell, oh, through the Cornell extension. And it was for to become like a master preserver. So we learned everything from canning, water bath canning, pressure canning, fermenting, any way to preserve food in a safe manner. So Matt and I also live very much, I would say like a homesteading life. You know, we're growing and using local produce and things like that when it's in season and not off season really.

So we are trying to live that life seasonally. So when we come, you know, into spring, summer where we have an abundance of fruits and vegetables, we want to preserve that to then use throughout the year. So this course was kind of a just a personal kind of journey to learn how to can and preserve safely because that was all, you know, our ancestors did, you know, great, great grandmothers of ours were doing that because they didn't have refrigeration. They didn't have storage, stuff like that. So it's a great way to take what you're growing.

You know, you're putting your hard work into what you're growing and then turning it into something, whether it be jams or chutneys or even just whole vegetables or anything like that, to then use throughout the year. So then you're not having to purchase food that's coming, you know, halfway across the world to eat your strawberries or blueberries in January. So it becomes like a sustainability thing. say, you know, just trying to use what's locally grown to us here in our little, you know, bio climate. And so it really, it's just something. I always say I'm like, I was born in the

wrong time period. Like all these things I'd like to do. Some of my friends are just like, what do you do? Like, just go to the store and buy it. Why are you spending hours like making jam? But then when I'm like, oh, do you want to try some homemade jam? They're like, oh, this is amazing. it, you know, so it's, and then, you know, that carries over into also what we're doing. So we teach throughout the summer months, we teach at the kitchen, you know, how to jam and preserve and pickle and ferment. So that gets incorporated into what we're doing too. And if you think about herbs, you harvest herbs, fresh herbs are only in the last week or two,

you know, if they're kept properly. So making a tincture is a way to preserve your herbs. Making an infused oil is a way to preserve your herbs. So it definitely goes hand in hand on how to preserve what's growing and keeping those things that we have in season and not wasting a lot of it. Yes, I love that. I mean, anything that we can do to reduce food waste and also just like increase nutrient density too, because if we're getting local foods and we're getting them freshly picked and, then we're going to be preserving them. We're preserving all of that nutrition too versus

something that was flown halfway across the world. It's going to be degrading its nutritional value that entire time. And then it's sitting, you know, in the store for however long before you get it. And then there's like the whole issue obviously of like the sustainability aspect and the just amount of like pollution that's coming from flying all of these foods across the world versus if we were to focus our efforts really just on like eating seasonally and locally and then doing these preservation methods, we could honestly change the way that we're negatively impacting the environment in so many, you know, in such a meaningful way. I think a lot of like the high level governmental view of like pollution or global warming, climate change, whatever it is,

is like focused on the wrong things. Like we're looking at cow emissions when we're, and we're ignoring like the transportation sector and like all of this like in the global supply chain that's really impacting, like, probably more than anything else, the way that our, our environments being negatively impacted. So I think it's so important for people to just whenever you can. It doesn't have to be a lot, but you can just support your local farmers and, like, you know, try to grow some things at home too. It's just, it's going to help everybody involved. I agree. And I know it sounds like a lot too, like, oh, well, you know, sometimes people say, you have the time, you have this, you have the resources, but I didn't start that way either.

I didn't one day just wake up and be like, well, we're only going to eat berries in the season or the frozen ones we have like, you know, in the winter. So it's been a gradual progression of how we just start incorporating. And like I said, it just becomes a habit. You know, I buy 100 pounds of strawberries in June, process them either into jams or jellies or frozen, you know, we have deep freezers. where we put them frozen, and then I'll use that for my smoothies throughout the winter, or if I want to bake something, we have fruit.

So it didn't come overnight, and it continually evolves on how we're doing, what we're doing, what tools we may need to make this happen, and we're not perfect. We go to the food store every week. We still need things that are not being grown or anything like that. So I don't want anyone to think I'm living 100% off the land, but it's these small changes. And it just helps you to think too like, oh, well, I could change that too. So let's start incorporating that. So I say, try one thing at a time, see how it goes. If you need to switch it up, feel free. But I think it just becomes like a snowball effect where if I could do this, I could do this.

It does. I feel like if you're growing your own food or even just anything in the health space where you're like finally paying attention to some aspect of your health that you were kind of unconscious about before and you're bringing it into your conscious awareness and incorporating into your life is like a gateway drug to all the rest of the things like growing your own food living off the land like whatever whatever it is like not processed foods and that was definitely my experience too like I've been kind of on the health optimization path since I was around 16 years old I lost like 100 pounds and then dealt with a whole bunch of health issues when I was a kid but After the weight loss, I had like really bad IBS and like disordered eating.

And this was like a whole health journey that just led me to realize like, oh, like what am I doing in my life to actually create these issues and this disease? And that just kind of like you said, snowballs into finding all the little areas that I'm not aware of and then bringing them into my awareness and then making a conscious choice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think, I mean, I think that's the experience for a lot of people who become interested in investing.

in their own health journey where it's just like you just start somewhere and it doesn't have to be all the things at once doesn't need to be this overwhelming like you know I'm doing everything wrong and there's like no point in changing because it's too much to think about just you just start somewhere and then it will pick up over time as you can incorporate new things absolutely yeah I and even in herbalism you know people say there's so many plants how do I learn about all of them how do I you know I get overwhelmed and yet it could be overwhelming. You walk outside and there's hundreds of, you know, either weeds or whatever the case may be. But we always try to teach like, pick one herb. Learn everything you can about that herb because then that herb you're going to

always know about and then start incorporating another herb. So it's like a, we say it's like a plant ally. So we choose one a year. And of course we learn about other herbs throughout the time, but we really get to know like this one plant. So then if all else, you know, fails, we know about these, you know, handful of plants that we know in and out, like how it grows, where it grows, how to use it, all the different preparations we could do with it. So I always say start with one herb, learn about that one. And then when you know and you feel confident about that one, move on to your next one. You don't have to study 50 at one time and then be like, oh, my goodness, I'm never going to know all of them. this. Totally. And I definitely had that realization when I about eight weeks ago started dabbling in

herbalism. And I started also taking courses with Amanda, who I think we discussed. But I've also been taking coursework through the School of Evolutionary herbalism. And there's just so much great information. But it actually made me realize or like had a connection to my training in science, like during my doctoral training. Like there's a lot. I was. studying metabolism. So like there's many metabolic pathways, many metabolites and reactions happening. And the thing that they don't really teach you in like undergrad or even like in primary and secondary school is like there's all this emphasis on memorization. And then if you can memorize it, that means you're like smart and you know things versus understanding concepts and then referencing

materials. So you don't have to like drill it into your brain. But over time as you keep referencing, you know, if you're looking at an herbal monograph, you know, you're looking at different herbs or or if you're studying metabolism, you're looking at different pathways over time, they'll start to get written into your system. But it's not a matter of just like cramming it in your brain and memorizing. It's really more about understanding conceptually what's going on so that you have the toolkit to be able to look at any herb or whatever you're studying and then be able to integrate that information effectively.

Yes, agreed 100%. Yes, yes. Can you share a little bit about what some of your favorite herbs to work with are if you had to choose like three or something like that. Yeah. So I really do think it changes like weekly. So we'll start with this week. I have been using a lot of ginger. And I think that is because I'm coming off of a, I had a terrible cold and just congestion and fatigue. And so ginger I've been incorporating into a lot, whether it be my food into teas. I've done a ginger steam, white pine. which I always tend to turn to in the winter months because nothing is growing right now here in New Jersey.

We have a few plants still in our greenhouse that are like hanging on, but they're on their way out. But white pine, because it's an evergreen, I tend to turn to that one often in the winter months because even if we have, you know, two feet of snow on the ground, I could go out and forage something. very high in vitamin C, which is great for this time of year for your immunity, for just feeling a little vibrant and also grounding. So, you know, during these winter months, sometimes we could kind of get not lost, but you kind of just, I really want the sun. And, you know, I just feel it, it kind of grounds me. And it's a good reminder that spring will come back around. Let's just take this time to kind of relax. And then for the third, third one. I'm going to say holy basil because we have a pot of it on a stove right now.

I love it. I bought some of your holy basil and actually a few of your products I've been working with and I've just been loving them. Thank you for creating some quality products. I really found you because I was looking for some local growers who I could support and, you know, who had good farming practices and then you popped out as like one of the top fits. I was like, oh my gosh, amazing. And then I saw you have all these different types of products on your website. I need to come into your store because it just seems like this beautiful herbal oasis that I would just want to buy literally everything. Oh, thank you. Yes, you're welcome.

Can you share a little bit about what Holy Basil might be good for if somebody wants to work with that? Yeah, so Holy Basil is a great herb for the nervous system. So it's a urbine. We like, I mean, we make it by, so we have like a big, you know, nine quart cast iron pot. And we'll just make a huge infusion of it, let it simmer for like two days. and then throw it into the fridge and then if we need to reheat, we reheat. So we like to use it just for like the everyday stressors. So just, you know, flooding.

You know, sometimes that could be a stressor if something was getting flooded in the house or, you know, just different ways to help calm the nervous system. I also love it. It's an adaptogenic. So it kind of helps work with all of your systems, wherever a system may need some support. I love the flavor of it. That's probably one of my top things for using an herb is like, if I love the flavor, I'm going to drink or use a lot of it.

It's also just great for, you know, digest, just for like everyday well-being, I feel. You know, good for digestion. A lot of people use it before bed to help relax and then to sleep. I wouldn't say it's necessarily a sedative because it is more of a nirvine that could be used throughout the day and it's not just going to knock you out. but it does help calm, especially if you have that like running mind before bed, that could help. And just overall, I just feel it's just an overall good like cup of tea for everyday use. Amazing. That's a great insight. Do you also work with that in tinctures or mostly in infusions?

I usually do it as an infusion. We do make a tincture. And a lot of people love tinctures because they either don't have the time to make a cup of tea or a long infusion or anything like that. So we always try to work with where the person's at. I don't want to say you have to drink this tea or infusion and then they're like, well, I just don't have the time, so now I'm not going to use herbs. Right. So okay, so maybe a tincture will be easy. You can put it in your bag or work bag, wherever, and have it with you at all time. So we do make it into a tincture. We also do an amazing hydrosol with it when the plant is fresh, which I'd love to just use on my skin. You know, I kind of have them scattered throughout the house. They're all over the store.

And when I walk by, I just spritz my skin a little and move on. Love that. Can you describe a little bit about how a hydrocell is made and how that might be different from like an infusion or a tea? Yeah. So an infusion or tea would be, you know, you're heating the plant material with hot water, just like you would a normal cup of tea. Or if you're going to do an infusion, sometimes we'll let it sit for eight,

12 hours to really extract those medicinal properties from the plant, strain it out, and then you would just heat it as you would, you know, needed. A hydrosol is actually a steam distillation. So if you've ever seen or have any knowledge in essential oils, sometimes these big copper stills where you put fresh plant material, you then put water and the water is heated, but it then goes through a cooling apparatus that creates the steam. So when you're distilling plants, you get a hydrosol and an essential oil. Because we don't grow hundreds and hundreds of acres of one plant to make essential oils, we do this steam distillation for the hydrosol aspect of it. So we will get some essential oil, but it's like drops compared to like what big producers would do with

essential oils. And then the hydrosol can be used directly on your skin. I've had people add it to mocktails or cocktails. So you can ingest it also. It's just, it's kind of like plant water. So the, the steam breaks down the plant, you know, opens up all those cell walls and then the the, I guess the constituents of the plant then become the hydrocell. So would you say it's probably when you're making a hydrozol, maybe like 95% the hydrosol and 5% the essential oil or even less? Like 1% if that. Wow. So the oil is very concentrated.

It is. And I did a time hydrosol this year, first time ever, because time is actually my plant ally this year. And so I've been trying to just use it in any way possible. So we did a small distillation of it. And most of our hydrosols are clear. the time because of the, like it had so many volatile oils in it, it's like a rusty color. And it's not that it's bad or like went off or anything like that. It's just there was there was a good amount of essential oils in that time at the time of

distillation that it's, you could really see it kind of just sitting right on the top of the hydrosol. Wow, amazing. So we mentioned the hydrosols and some, you know, we could, make oil infusions, you can do teas or water infusions. Could you give us, if there's any additional ways to work with herbs or like get herbs into other forms, could you share those with us? Yeah. I mean, there you could really do, I don't want to say anything, but there are a lot of different preparations. So you could, even as simple as, you know, taking your kitchen herbs,

if you're just starting out, some rosemary, some thyme, some basil, infusing them in an olive oil and making an infused oil that way. Infusing them in vinegar, using the vinegar with your cooking, or you could take a little shot of vinegar to help with any gut issues. You could dry your herbs and use them for tea. You could dry your herbs and powder them and use them as like a powdered herb, throw it into your smoothies or shakes. You could put them into capsules and take them almost as like a capsule form.

You could do herbal steams, which is just pouring. hot water over the herb itself and then putting a towel over your head and breathing the steam in, which helps wonderfully with any type of chest or head congestion. You know, there are different preparations could be oxymels or elixirs, which are mixing honey into the preparation. You could do infused honeies, which I do a ton of infused honeies, which is just plant material and honey. Yeah, two simple ingredients, put them together and let it sit for a little bit and you have an infused honey. I guess there's probably hundreds of other ways to use them.

I saw you had some infused salts on your page. Yes, you could infuse salt. You could do, you could either do salt that you want to sprinkle over food or you could do like a bath salt and use Epsons salt or magnesium salt or pink and malayan salt and use that for. a foot bath or a full body bath or anything like that. And, you know, it's just all these different way, you could throw a piece of mint in your water that's infusing your herb in your, like, that can't get any easier. So it's just finding different ways of incorporating these herbs into things you maybe already do, right? You're maybe taking a bath or a shower every other day, every day, whatever. Throw some herbs in the tub. Or, you know, I don't personally have a,

bathtub. But I do a lot of foot baths. So I'll fill up a, you know, a bin and pour hot water in with some herbs and soak my feet. And I mean, that's getting into my body through my skin. So it's just another way of incorporating it. And it gives you time to, you can't really go far if your feet are in a tub of water. So it's a good reason to sit and relax for a bit too. Love that. And then it gives you kind of the aromatherap aspect too. Because like, you're breathing it in. Absolutely. Is there any way to know without, I mean, obviously we can look up information about each plant, but is there a way to know like intuitively the best preparations that an herb might have,

like if it's going to be best infused into an oil or into a tincture or a hot water infusion? Is there a way to know, I mean, either chemically or just based off of like the volatiles, for example? Some plants, I guess you could, like, if we take marshmallow root for instance, that's usually done as a cold infusion because it creates like a very thick, like gelatinous tea, right, or water solution, which then helps with any type of throat issue or stomach. So it's always, and you don't have to do it cold, but that's one plant that just came right to me that I thought, okay, well, I would do that cold over a hot tea. So I would just pour cold water over the herb, let it sit rather than hot.

I mean, some herbs, yes, some herbs are going to extract better out of alcohol, which would then be your tincture rather than water. But my biggest thing is if you don't have the time to, you know, you're like, oh, I've got some inflammation, but I don't have any tumric tincture available. If I make it now, it'll be ready in six weeks. Yeah. Who's going to want to wait that long, right? So maybe you have, you can make a tea with it. maybe you could start incorporating it into your food onto, you know, whatever you may be making. So just different things like that, I feel if you don't have all of them at your disposal,

work with what you have because I think that'll be better than not doing it at all. Yes, absolutely. I love that guidance. And yeah, like you said, there's so many different ways that individuals can incorporate them into their life. And I think it's great to explore, like as many as you feel you can. you can try the plant or the herb in so many different ways and you can see what resonates the most or which or use them all. I think that's a great. I mean, and you'll, you'll come across, oh, I don't like using it like that, but I'm going to try it like this. Maybe I'll like that more. Because again,

I don't want you to do something you're not going to, not even like. There's some herbs I take because I know it's going to help me. I don't necessarily like them, especially roots, which are very bitter. not my favorite but I'll still take them because I know but I don't want it to deter or for someone to say like well that's not working so we're just going to give up on the whole plant you know maybe making a tea with it would be better than you're taking it as a tincture so it and that's where the trial and error in the patience and the you know not it's not going to happen overnight sometimes some herbs yes you will feel an effect immediately but some it takes time so just be patient with the plants. They're patient with us, so you should be patient with them too.

Absolutely. Speaking of patience, I wanted to ask you, we talked earlier about some easy plants to grow, which would be like the culinary herbs. I was also curious to hear about maybe some more challenging plants to grow that might require some more patience. Yeah. So let's think. I mean, anything you really want to use a root for. So Ella Kim, Hesha Honda. What else do we use? Dandelion, which they're a little easier to gather on the regular basis, but the echinacea root. You know, we need to allow these plants usually about three years to grow before we start

harvesting the root. You could do it earlier. They're not going to be as established, but you also want to try to get into a cycle where, because once you pull the root, your plant is done. We're not just taking the parts above ground, which will then come back year after year. So once we pull the root, the plant is done. So that patience of, okay, if I just planted this in April of, you know, 2024, I might not be harvesting roots until 2026, 2027, right? So that's like the long game. But if you get into the cycle where you're planting every year. So if you're harvesting in 2026, you've got plants that are ready

to be harvested in 2027 and 28. So it kind of becomes in a cycle and it's not so like, ooh, I'm going to take this plant and that's the end of it kind of thing. So I would say roots are probably patience-wise. You want them to get established so you're not pulling out roots, you know, this big and having to process them. You want a good amount so you could make something with it. As far as growing herbs, we grow a lot of perennials, which kind of in our favor is good because then we don't need to babysit them quite as often. You know, once they get established after year two or so, they're kind of on their own. We very rarely water up on the farm. We don't have irrigation.

And if we are watering, it's with a hose and our hands. So we try not to do that all that often. we let nature do its thing. Of course, when we are just putting new plants into the ground and annuals, we do need to order those because they are tiny little babies that are not established yet. So it's just knowing what you kind of want to grow, the space you have, the time frame you're looking at, you know, like we spoke about Holy Basil earlier. Here it's an annual. So we're planting, you know, two to 300 plants every spring to then harvest in the fall. and then starting all over again.

We've got sage plants up there that we've had for four years and we just keep harvesting and they just keep growing. So it's dependent on what you're growing, where you are located also. You know, some plants for us that may be perennials may not be for others. So depending on, you know, your zone, your growing zone. But yeah, annuals are, they're a tricky. thing. People think, oh, I'm just going to put some manuals in the ground. We'll pull them up again.

But it's that constant, you know, starting another 300 or so of one plant every single spring so we could harvest in the fall. Yeah, that's really interesting that depending on what zone you're in, like what your ecosystem is like, it can change the way that you're, like, whether the botanical is going to kind of embody a more perennial or annual characteristic. I think that's really interesting from just like a scientific standpoint. I'm going to have to look into the there must be like some genetic programs that are activated in certain environments that allow it. Oh yeah. And they recently just changed. Oh. So in this area like northern New Jersey, we were like in the 6A, 6B. We've now moved into the 7 just because everything is getting so much

warmer. So it's literally the, you know, if you looked at the map of the U.S. and you see all the growing zones, it's getting warmer as you go more north. So we're now in seven, which doesn't really change much of what we're growing. It's not like we're going from like two to nine or, you know, like our whole climate history. But because the earth is just getting warmer, it's, they've, they've shifted those zones for like growing seasons. Oh, that's really interesting. You mentioned how, like, when you're planting your perennials, for example, you kind of let nature do its thing. Do you have anything you would like to share about maybe individuals who think you need to use, like, chemical fertilizers or pesticides in order to grow things and how that's not really necessary in a lot of ways?

Yeah, it definitely isn't. So we, I mentioned earlier, we grow Ashquahonda. So it's, we use the root. The leaves get attacked every year by, I don't even know what kind of bug, but they little holes in the leaves all over the plant. It's not harming the plant per se because we're working, we're going to be working with the root. We're not working with the leaves. But allowing this to happen to this plant kind of deters that bug from going to other plants, right? So we continually plant it knowing, yes, these leaves are probably going to get attacked.

we're going to use the root so we're not worried and then the surrounding plants are fine it also happens with our bee bomb every year we tend to get powdery mildew which is a fungus and we leave our 60 or 80 plants we have and we just let them let them do their thing let them get the mildew and it happens that we we don't use those plants that's kind of like we just have them in the ground so the mildew is attracted to bee bomb quite often in a lot of gardens. But then everything else around it is fine. Oh, wow. That's so interesting. Like leveraging some natural protection within the environment to protect the other plants. Yes. And with herbs, you're not going to have necessarily too much of a bug. Because they are high, a lot of herbs are high in essential oils. You're not going to get it like you

wood on tomatoes or squash or things like that where your whole plant gets decimated. You know, it's gone. Clearly, animals also are not naturally attracted. We had a groundhog literally living in the farm and his holes were in there. We would just step over them, but he would burrow back out underneath the fence and come back in and very rarely did we see anything eat. And maybe once in a while something gets nibbled. but not often at all.

I mean, I think that's just a testament, too, if you're going to work with nature instead of against nature, you're going to kind of reap the benefits of that at least over time. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, we have fences. We have deer fence, we have bear fence. You know, we have all the fences up on the farm,

but deer burrowing animals are going to get in regardless. They're going to go under. Here at home, whatever is not behind a fence. we have a ton of deer and they they say plants are deer resistant I swear they eat everything I know so you know sometimes we do

lose crop to that or you know a big patch of some lemon bomb they've been loving the past few years which they've never touched because of that high oil content it's smell it's very fragrant but they have just right down to the ground but you know what we

again, it's still there. Like it comes back every spring, they eat it, and then hopefully they don't eat some of the other things. So it's just you're going to lose some. Absolutely. But to be spraying and all that jazz, we literally do nothing. We don't use anything.

I think the most we've used is like a vinegar solution. If we've noticed something on maybe we only have one or two, and it's kind of like a trial and error type plant where we're trying to see if we could grow it. But other than that, and we let the water do its thing. We clearly can't control the sunlight, so that does its thing. So, yeah, it kind of is, you know, it's hands off in a way when we're not planting or don't have a ton of annuals in the ground because those are going to just be like little baby plants. but you know then it's just constant weeding and stuff like that to keep

the plants from you know to allow them to thrive and not get taken over by weeds and stuff totally are any of those weeds things that you can also use oh yeah yeah can we a little bit about what those like me I love weeds so I mean dandelion number one

so beneficial from flower to root you could use a whole plant. If you're not spraying your lawn or your garden or anything like dig up those dandelions, eat the leaves. They're great like digestive. The flowers have a little sweetness to them. The roots are really good digestive because they're super bitter. The flowers are also the first plant that comes up for the bees. So we try not to pull until other things are starting to bloom because that's the first thing they're going to go to to pollinate. what else uh ground ivy it's a kind of like a ground cover people hate it it's some days i hate it too

because it does get very aggressive get that in my my front garden and i'm always pulling it it grows so fast it does grow fast but it's a great plant to use we make a tincture with it i've used it in a tea um mugwort if you've ever heard of mugwort grows wild. I mean, it is one I will never put in my garden because I know I could go anywhere and forage it, but it is a very, very invasive plant, which is why we don't want it in the garden, but it's great for sleep. It's great for anxiety. It's good for digestion. So these plants that just grow wild and grow well because they're growing in the environment they should be are so medicinal. And that's, we do weed walks like in the spring and the summer and literally just walk through.

areas where there's a lot growing and point out you could use this, you could use this, you could use this, you know, and people's minds are just blown because they're like, are you kidding, like this grows in my lawn or this grows in my garden and I'm constantly pulling it out because I don't like it or, you know, you think it's a weed, but there's so many medicinal weeds. I love that. So speaking of like wild crafting or foraging, can we talk about maybe like one or two plants that are pretty common in our area, like in central to north Jersey, that people could find in like the spring, summer, and fall maybe? Yeah.

So garlic mustard is one that comes up very early on in the spring. It actually has a like an anti-freeze property to it. So if you were to dig under snow, you could definitely find it living. But it's one of the first that comes up and it grows in abundance and we use it as just like a wild green. We'll throw it, excuse me, into salads, into, you know, stir fries, anything like. like that, even the wild like onion grass that could be used. And that grows amongst our lawns and our gardens in the woods. So those are two really early spring ones that I like to go when I go out and I find them, I'll take them. You know, you could use the wild onions as like a chive. So

anything you would sprinkle chives over, you can make a chive cream cheese or a butter and, you know, freeze that and preserve it for months down the road. What else? Mugwort is clearly one. Mugwort and Goldenrod are two. Fall ones we like to harvest and use for medicine. They both grow wild. They're both really invasive. So there are two plants we would never put into our garden just because they would take over. And then you have like some berries and I'm going to like preface this by saying don't just go out and pick berries. Make sure you know exactly what you're picking. But there's autumn olives which are just these tart tart little berries that you could make a jam with. You can make a pie. You could add them to your

smoothies. The spice bush puts out a little berry. We dry those and grind them up and then use them as like a spice. They have a very spicy taste to them. What else? Are those in the fall the berries mostly or also summer? Yeah, like late, late summer early fall for those two. Um, Summer, you just, I mean, summer is not the biggest time for us to go out and forage just because we have so much growing here. But if you were to go out, I mean, mushrooms start late, you know, midsummer into fall. They're definitely more of like a fall foraging. But yeah, I mean like cleavers or chickweed, things like that that grow. Chickweed, I could literally eat it by the handful.

It's like microgreens. It's just a weed. You know, like it, it overtakes garden beds, but in the early spring when it, it loves the cold weather. So in the early spring, you could literally just go out and cut it with a scissor and come in with a huge helping of it. Sprangling it on salads or sandwiches or just eat it by the handful, throw it in a smoothie. So this is food, you know, this is food we're not paying for. We're not starting seeds. We're not doing, you know, so it's just, it's available to us.

And I feel like the more we use it, the more it grows. and then it's almost like, you know, you just start incorporating those things into your diet. Oh my goodness. I love this. So where did you learn about foraging? And do you have any resources that you would recommend for people who are interested in maybe starting to do some of this? Yeah. So I learned a lot when I was doing my apprenticeship with Robin because she, I mean, we would just go up into the woods for hours. And that's how we did a lot of our study, like our work. We would, you know, look at a plant. Take, like, I trusted that she was telling us we could taste it. We would taste it, you know, and just learning to, to recognize them. We lead some

weed walks in the northern New Jersey area in spring and summer where, like I said, we just kind of go out and just start pointing things around. You know, you could use this. You could do this. I encourage people to take some home and, you know, so you have it to look at. Oh, let me compare this to what I might have in my, you know, garden. And I always recommend if you are going to take a book out into the woods or anything like that. Make sure it's a book that's going to be focused on your area because me looking at something from like the southwest isn't going to help me in the northeast. So there are a lot of like bioregional type books that you could start, you know, flipping through when you go out into the woods and, you know, it helps you to identify the leaf structure and

identify if there's a barrier or not or the bark of the tree if you're working with a tree. So there's a lot of different ways to identify the plants for you to successfully say, you know what, this is this plant. I'm going to use it because we don't ever want to be like, it might be. It might not be. But let's try it. That could be deadly in some cases. Yes, it could definitely make you sick or, you know, anything like that.

Or the plant could be really, really endangered and you don't want to harvest. Look at it all you want. study it from, you know, far, but there are some plants that if I came across them, I would never touch them. Like, I just wouldn't. What's an example of one like that? Um, ghost pipe for one. Um, it's actually more of a, it's not a mushroom, but it grows out of the ground and it runs with mycelium. Um, but it is very endangered. So, you know, we had made a tincture maybe seven years ago or so. And we still, um, but we still, um, but it is very endangered. Um, but we still, have that tincture. It's just one we don't use often because number one, it's a very powerful

medicine for pain. It's almost like a disassociation. But I see people that the minute they find them, they are harvesting all of it. Like I would take maybe like two out of a group of like 500. You know, Rams is another one that I feel people are very much so over harvesting. It's a wild onion that comes up early spring. And I feel a lot of people are over harvesting that. I feel a lot of people are over harvesting that and it's now going into like the the culinary scene where it becomes like an exotic food almost yeah are those the same thing as garlic scapes no a garlic scape is actually grown off of a garlic oh okay like it's part of the garlic growing garlic yeah because i've seen ramps definitely gets super popular maybe over five years or so yes yes yep yeah they are delicious but

they are they definitely are i've made like a butter with them before but it's It's just knowing like if you have a large patch of something, you're taking like a little from this plant, a little from this plant. We're not just taking the whole plant and then that plant is done for. So it's just learning how to sustainably forage and harvest. So the plant could continue its life cycle and continue to, you know, expand. Absolutely. So we mentioned spring, summer, and fall foraging. Actually meant to circle back to winter because you mentioned white pine earlier.

Would that be something that you forage in the winter? and is there anything else that is available around this time of year? Yeah, so white pine, we have quite a few. We have about four trees that border our garden, so we don't have to go far into our backyard to harvest from them, but they do grow wild, so you could really find them anywhere. Rose hips are a great one to start foraging. You want to forage them after the first frost.

We've had frost, but it hasn't been a consistent, like, hard frost day after day. So we haven't really foraged any yet. But I would say rose hips could definitely be a winter foraging, you know, activity. There's not really that much. I mean, I'm sure we could go out and find some things, but it's either at the very, very end of its life cycle where it's not going to be real optimal to have like a good plant to use. Like I said, the garlic mustard. Sometimes I'll see that in February starting to come up.

So that that's almost like a fun like, oh, the greens are starting to come up like excitement of spring. So that's like a late winter one. But like December, January, not much. Yeah, yeah, pretty sparse. Rose are a great one. I didn't realize that you would, you know, go and look for them after the first frost. We have a bunch of rose bushes by our house. Oh, nice.

Yeah. Yeah. So once, and you could use them in tea. You would have to do like a strong infusion because they are very. dense berry. Or you could dry them out and kind of crush them up and use them that way. A lot of times when if we don't forage them and we buy them, they come kind of like crushed up. So you can do that too. Yeah, they're so medicinal too. They're very, very enriched in vitamin C. So they're great for this time of year again. Yep. So it's like these plants know, maybe we're not outside as much or

you know, we're not getting as much sunlight because of the gloomy days that where like this vitamin C could come in. We're not eating as much fresh produce. so we're not getting that sense of vitamin C. The plants know. Yeah, absolutely. Especially if, I mean, you're doing these types of things locally where the plants kind of come and go, depending on the season, whatever is being expressed by the plant in that season

is probably appropriate for your body too, which we're supposed to be in our environments. And obviously a lot of people are just inside all day, but if you are getting outside during, you know, whatever season it is, chances are the botanicals in that area during that season are going to be supportive in some way because they already have like the programming turned on to be able to survive and thrive in that season. Yes, absolutely. 100%. I want to actually touch on one more thing.

I saw that you've gotten aromatherapy, like you went through an aromatherapy program more recently, and I'd love to hear a little bit about how that program was structured. What are the things you learned in there and like how people could incorporate aromatherapy into their life? Yeah. So I was never a huge, and I'm still really not a huge essential oil user. I know there's some people who use it like I would use plant medicine, the whole plant. So I took that course because so many people were coming into the store and thought all of the tinctures we made were oils.

can I put them in a diffuser? Can I do this with them? Can I put them on my skin? So it was then my, what I felt to be my job to educate myself on essential, on the world of essential oils, how they're made, how we could use them. So then I could speak intelligently enough to folks who were coming in thinking what we had was essential oils. So we do sell a small, very small amount of essential oils. We do use them in some of our sabs and our lavender room spray. But it was very like the course I took, it was great. It was, I don't even know. It took me a while to get through it. There was a lot of chemistry in it, which I'm not great at. That's my favorite. Yeah. But it just, it kind of opened my eyes up to see how the plants are

being used in an oil form. So whether that, that's diffusing it, whether that's using it in skincare product, using it topically, it's great for respiratory, it's great for your mind, it's great for, you know, digestion if you want to rub it on your belly or anything like that. My biggest hang up with essential oils is the amount of plant material needed to make the essential oil. It's not a sustainable practice, regardless of if you're growing organically, if you're growing with small mom and pop farm, whatever the case may be,

the amount of plants you need to make essential oils is insane. Wow. So for someone who's using it like every waking moment of their day, that kind of makes me nervous just because of the amount. Like, you know, you get a 5-millimeter bottle of lemon. You need like 70 or 80 lemons to make that, bottle. And to think about how, you know, I have, I have a bottle of lemon essential oil, you know, so how many people have this? So what is the, like, pressure we're putting on the plants and the

growing and the area in which it's growing to constantly produce this amount? So I definitely do limit my essential oils. I do think they're a great modality to use for healing, for emotional support for, like I said, great for the mind, great for respiratory issues. But I do always have in the back of my mind, like the sustainability issue with it. I mean, that's a great perspective. I think that I haven't really thought about because I've never made my own essential oils. I haven't firsthand seen how much plant material is going into those. So that's really important. And I mean, it just makes sense, like if we're going to be using essential oils to treat like each drop as sacred and not this.

Yes. Yes. How much you use is fine type of mindset. Yes. And that I could get behind 100%. Like to use them, you know, sparingly and maybe substitute some of the things you were, you know, I could grow a peppermint plant. And that peppermint plant could give me a lot of medicine,

whether it's tea or if I'm infusing, you know, an olive oil to make a salve or I'm making a tincture. You know, that one plant this big, you know. If you want to make essential oil, you're going to need like thousands of these. Absolutely. And that means it's a very concentrated medicine, too, if they're going to be used in that context. Yep. So a drop or two could go a long way. Yet you see some companies and folks who are, you know, use 30 drops in your water or make a capsule and swallow that.

We have no clue what that's doing to our insides. Totally. Oh, I mean, gosh, especially for things like oregano, which I love oregano, but like that, oregano essential oil is very potent and it can be harmful to your mucous membranes. It can be very abrasive and harsh. Yep. So I always do encourage to try to use the whole plant, whether, like I said, tea, tincture, sal, anything like that. But I did take the course almost 100% to just be able to speak about them because I didn't have the education on them and so many people were coming in asking about them. Amazing. So I'd love to just circle back.

to kind of where we started and talk a little bit about the products that you're offering in your shop and where people can find you if they want to come in person or your website and what they can find online if that's if they can't travel to New Jersey. Yeah. Yeah. So we have a wide range of products anywhere from tinctures to teas, flower essences, hydrosols, elderberry syrup is probably one of our biggest and has been our biggest sellers for the past eight years. We make a fire tonic. All different things. You know, we infuse honey. We're working on a different infusion with some honey and vinegar.

So wide range of products. You could, if you are in the North Jersey or surrounding area, we are located in Pompton Plains. We have a brick and mortar shop. We're open Wednesday through Saturdays. But then we also have everything we make is available on our website, which is marinetkitchen.com. and you could order, you know, we ship nationwide so any of the 50 states could receive our products. And yeah, we have two online courses where we teach. One is about tincture making and one is about tea making.

And then even just through our Instagram, which is at Marinette Kitchen, we do, you know, I'm trying to post as much educational stuff as well as some fun things I'm making in the kitchen or, you know, just supporting other. local businesses and farmers and things like that as just a good daily reminder to, you know, do those things and get outside and move your body. So it's kind of a well-rounded Instagram page. But that's where I post a majority of our, you know, our content. Amazing. Yeah. I saw, I saw your Instagram and I love the diversity of content and how helpful it is with different like recipes and ways people can use herbs. So I think that's a great resource with people in addition to the courses and, you know, coming into the shop or ordering things online. But Shannon, I just want to thank you so much for coming on the show. I loved hearing about your

experiences, your work with plants and just like really creating some digestible takeaways for people to incorporate botanicals into their everyday life and just really kind of create some magic with these amazing beings that can be so supportive for us. So thank you so much for coming in line. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Yes, yes. Thank you so much. I'm going to definitely come up to the shop and check it out. You're kind of near where my hometown was in like Warren County, New Jersey. Okay. Yeah, not far.

It's a way or so. But yeah, now I'm down by like the Princeton area. So it's a little bit longer, but it'll be worth the trip up. But yeah, thank you so much for coming on and sharing with us. And I will link to Marinette Kitchens' website and Instagram and all of that good stuff in the show notes so you guys can access her. Thank you. Thank you.