Undoctrinate Yourself - #3 - Sheryl Utal

Episode Date: March 12, 2025

Sheryl Utal is an entrepreneur, self-healer, and student of life. Her passion for health optimization was ignited over 15 years ago after the standard medical model failed her in the wake of an autoimmune disease diagnosis. This crisis served as her initiation into the healing journey of a lifetime, and guided her into deep practices across yoga, breath work, sound healing, and meditation, and ultimately to the cessation of autoimmunity. These transformative experiences catalyzed Sheryl to create Japa Health: a technology platform that generates personalized physical, mental, and spiritual health recommendations to support the success of self healers at scale. Support the podcast by becoming a patron: patreon.com/UndoctrinateYourselfPodcastDr. Alexis's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dralexisjazmynSheryl's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sheryl_utalTo take the Japa Health assessment, visit: https://japa.health

Hello and welcome back to the Undoctrinate Yourself podcast with me, Alexis Cowen and my guest today. This is the first interview that we're doing on the podcast, which I'm super excited about. And it couldn't be better with a more wonderful person who I can't wait to share with you guys. This is Cheryl Utah. We connected on Instagram probably about a year ago. Maybe Cheryl has a better idea of the timeline. But since day one, we've just been like soul sisters. And it's been such a pleasure getting to know her and connecting with her.

And also coming on to the Joppa team, which she's going to tell you guys about Joppa health and what we're doing and what our mission is and all the exciting things coming up with that. But first, I just want to welcome you, Cheryl, and thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for having me. I'm so honored to be the first guest. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

Very exciting. And I think timely too, because we've got lots of interesting and exciting things up and coming. And it will be cool to kind of share maybe some sneak peek into what people can expect. from Joppa and what we're up to. But maybe you can just start by like introducing yourself a little bit what, you know, who Cheryl is and what her dreams, goals and, and passions are. And then we can kind of take it from there. Thank you. Who am I? Well, I'm a student of life. And I think of myself as like the wounded healer archetype, if you've ever heard of that character. But I resonate with that for sure. and a journey of healing in many different aspects, physical, spiritual, emotional, that really

catalyzed a spiritual awakening for me that came out of a lot of pain. It was just like the dark night of the soul story, but like a heavy one, at least in, at least in my own perspective, it seemed really heavy. There was like a crisis of health, a crisis of relationships, a crisis of purpose, like a financial crisis, like all at the same time, a family crisis. It was just kind of all came crashing down. And this was when I was kind of in my mid to late 20s. And so ever since then, I've been on this path of understanding, you know, what creates joy, what creates health, what is happiness, how do we achieve that, and living the absolute best life that I possibly can. And then also

being the embodiment of that so that I can help show others that, hey, if I can do it, if I can come out of that shit storm that was my dark night, then anybody can. So I think, I don't know if that is what you're looking for, but that's me in a nutshell. And I'm just always studying. I'm always curious about learning more, which is one of the reasons why I'm so grateful to have you in my life because I think of you as such a powerful resource for so many amazing things that if I could do life over, I would probably be a scientist. So I have this like, this like, um, deep appreciation, a little bit of envy, like, oh, wow, I wish I had all of that knowledge, too. So I'm like absorbing it through you all the time. So yeah, so I'm a student and a visionary. Like I have a vision for,

you know, a better world, a better way of living, a better way of relating, a better way of taking care of ourselves. And through my own journey of all of the knowledge that I've acquired through my self-study, I've come to understand that we can apply that in a way to create new innovation that can really help the others. And that's that's the hero's journey, right? Like, that's the comeback from the pain and bring the treasures with you so you can share them out into the world. And that's, that's what I'm seeking to do with Java Health. I'm so grateful that you're part of that. And we're really just getting started. Absolutely. Do you want to share a little bit about Joppa and like how you even came to kind of go into entrepreneurship in general? But then I mean, of course, your personal story really inspired the creation of Joppa. But maybe if you're interested in, you know, sharing some details about what that inception looked like. Well, I learned, you know, by getting sick, so I got diagnosed with an autoimmune disease when I was 25 years old. I'm 43 now. And, you know, I learned that the path that I was on.

the path that, you know, I thought I was doing the right thing. I thought I, you know, it was like, you know, you go to college, you, you get a good education, you go out to the world, you work hard, and you develop a career for yourself, you get married, you go to the suburbs, check all the boxes. And I did that. But yet I was like supremely miserable and sick. And so as a result of, of like the learnings that I had about how really disease is, is when, the higher self is showing up to tell you that you're out of alignment, right? Like there's something that you're doing in your life or maybe many things that you're doing or haven't looked into to clear or to understand or to alchemize about how you're showing up

that that disease is really a messenger to tell you like, hey, course correct. Like you're not on the right path. And I had this awesome career and, you know, I worked for public companies and I did management consulting work and what you might consider impressive as the beginning of a career. But I was miserable. And so I learned that in order to be healthy, I have to be like what we were just talking about offline before we started, authentic, right? Like I have to really be authentic and true to myself.

And that part of being healthy is authenticity. And so that that was a big part of my journey to entrepreneurship because I didn't really want those jobs. I didn't really want that career. I was just doing it because that's what, you know, you're supposed to do or how you think the framework of life is supposed to be. Like, oh, this is the framework and that's how you make a living. And eventually one day he'll be happy, right?

And so out of that, I learned that, no, that's not true. So I started down the entrepreneurial path as my healing journey was unfolding. And there were so many different modalities and practices and things that I was integrating into my life that were helping me heal. And the biggest one, the most important one for me was yoga, right? The physical practice of asana, of moving meditation, of self-regulation. You know, and there's like, I heard Joe Rogan yesterday on that podcast that you and I were both talking about mentioning like all these different types of yoga that, you know,

I imagine that people that are following you and that might listen to this, you know, might know, might know more about yoga. but he was referring to like, you know, sacramam yoga. Yes. And there is, there is, right? There is like so many different styles and methods of practice that we see in, you know, in the West these days, but like true yoga, like real ancient practice is such a deeply spiritual practice.

And that's what I discovered was this really deeply transformative practice of the eightfold path, right? The eightfold path, which is about receiving. restraint and self-observances and non-attachment and really deeply understanding these concepts and then, you know, embodying them through the physical work and breath and your ability to be focused on a single point of attention while you're like deeply uncomfortable in a posture in a really hot room and you're like, you know, trying not to fall over and pass out and you're profusely sweating and like there's a million thoughts going through your head. But then in that process, somewhere along the way, it gets quiet.

Somewhere along the way, the analytical mind, right, that's part of what made me sick, was like constantly being in fight or flight, constantly being in masculine energy, constantly being in like pattern recognition and analyzing all the time. And I felt so deeply in love with the transformation that was happening through me and the insights that were happening for me during this practice that I was incredibly inspired to share it with the world. I was like, how come nobody talks about this? This is like the highest medicine that you could possibly have. This is everything.

And you know, you go through an entire process of education up until you're, who knows, you know, 18 or maybe older if you go to college or, you know, older if you're, you go to graduate school and, you know, it's just, it's not talked about, like, how to breathe. Like, think about that. Like, posture and breath. Like, the most fundamental aspects of being a human is, like, the awareness of yourself, how to breathe, how to move, your posture, your spine, your alignment, how you respond to your own energy, how you shift your energy, shift your awareness, your attention and, like, where your attention

goes. And all of these things were just so, so big. These concepts were so big and so helpful for me in my healing that I was just like there was no other choice for me. I have to share this with the world. I started studying yoga, did a teacher training, and right away opened a very large yoga studio in the middle of West L.A., which was kind of crazy at the time because there's so many yoga studios there. And, you know, it's really saturated in terms of business. like, you know, business 101 is you, you know, you want to be in a space where, yeah, there's, there's demand.

So there's probably also supply. But if it's oversaturated, like, how are you going to compete? Right. But like, I didn't care. I didn't care because I just felt I had a unique message to share. And we were going to do it in a really special way. We were going to create an environment for people that was going to allow them to have the same experience that I had.

And I did it. And I did it. And I opened that yoga studio in 2013 and broke even in six months and just grew it to like this massive community. And what was really beautiful when I look back on it was my own evolution, which was continuing. Like, you know, so, you know, I look back on my teaching at that time and how I teach now and, you know, how I've integrated so many things that I wasn't even aware of then. but yet it was still so beautiful. And I was, you know, showing up with like my heart completely on fire for, for transformation and for healing.

And that was really the beginning of what I'm doing now. And in, in the process of building that community, you know, I met so many amazing people, so many beautiful teachers. And I shared my story. I shared that, you know, I had had like a rebirth. I had had, I reinvented. myself. Like I came out of corporate America and I came out of this disease space where I was like medicated taking synthetic hormones and birth control and you know, I was in the wrong marriage and

the wrong job in the wrong environment and look at me now. And my community knew that. I was, it was on the website. You know, I talked about it. And so people would come to me, you probably heard me tell this story before, but people would come to me in the yoga studio and they would confess what their pain was and what they were going through and they would, I think I just showed a lot of vulnerability, you know, at that time about my own process. And people felt comfortable to come and talk to me about what they were going through. And I heard so many stories. I mean, thousands and thousands of stories of pain and of people seeking something better. You know, they just, they wanted something better, whether it was they were trying to lose weight or they had a back injury or they got some kind

of diagnosis like an autoimmune disease or they lost a loved one and they were dealing with tremendous grief or they got in a car accident and they you know whatever right like there was a story after story after story of just like you know human like your your your human experience and what do I do was always the question like what do you recommend what do you recommend what do you recommend? And I can't tell you how many times I'd have to like preface everything with, well, I'm not a doctor or I don't know for sure or it depends. You know, I did my best to help point people to a place of their own curiosity and their own introspection and their own seeking, right? Like not giving them any answers because I could never do that for somebody. Like you have to look

within. And I feel like if you, it's that old expression, right? Like you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink, you know? So it was like, I really just felt like there is a big problem that it's overwhelming for people to figure out how to help themselves and where to start. And that we have this like amazing thing called the internet now that you can just literally like educate yourself on any, anything, on. any topic, right? And there's, it's, it's weird. It's like this, it's, it's like this, what do you call it, paradox?

Because like there's too much information. Yes. Right? We went from like not having access to information to like, there's too much information. And what do you do with all of it? And how do you know, how do you know what's true? And how do you know what's true for you? And how do you know who to trust and how do you know what to do first or second or

third or fourth? Or how do you know if it's working? And so I sold the yoga studio in 2018. And I just felt this calling. There was a number of different reasons why I sold the business because it was doing well. But I just felt this calling to really practice what I teach and preach, which is, you know, you can create anything that you imagine, but you can also let it go. Right. And so I was, I was embodying that and trusting in my.

path because I felt like at that point the studio was holding me back. Like I had done everything that I could for that community. And I had really established a culture of excellence in teaching. And Lena and I, who you mentioned, Lena is one of the co-founders of Joppa who worked with me then too at Red Diamond. You know, we established a methodology for what does it mean to hold space. I don't think I've ever shared that with you. No, yeah. Yeah, we really looked at that. Like, what does it mean to hold space for healing, for transformation, for other people to have their own experience? Because you can be a yoga teacher or any type of teacher for that matter and like talk at people and teach at people. But the process of going inward is the practice.

So if you're talking at them, how are they going inward? If their senses are being directed outward to engage with what you're saying, then where does that end and their introspection begin? And how so how do you hold space, but then also teach at the same time? Because you have to do both. So we developed this methodology for holding space. And, you know, I had done that.

And I had taught all these teachers to do that too. And so I had this really strong brand and it was thriving. But I felt like all my work was done there. And to be really honest with myself, I felt like if I was going to reach my potential, my highest potential, I had to let it go. And then right around the time that I was closing escrow, which was a very wild time for me because I didn't tell anybody at all. I didn't tell anybody that I was selling the business.

And it took a year from the time that I decided to sell it until the closing because I didn't want to create any disruption. I didn't want to scare people. I didn't want to scare the teachers. I didn't want to scare the members that, you know, pay for a monthly membership thinking that like, well, things might change. So maybe I should stop coming or I didn't want to rock the boat. So I didn't tell anybody. And right around the time of the escrow, I did this holotropic breathwork experience.

Have you ever done that? Have you ever tried that? I have. Yeah, I had the one course that I'm actually doing right now. It's like a six month container. But one of the somatic practices we did, the first one actually, was this exact thing. and it was like beyond what I thought it was going to be. Like I've had psychedelic experiences and it was definitely akin to that in many ways.

But yeah, I'd love to hear your experience. Right, right, right. And I want to, I'm so glad that you mentioned psychedelics because I want to talk about that too because it's a big part of who I am and my journey as well. And actually on that podcast I was listening to with Joe Rogan yesterday, you might have heard them also talking about whether or not you can have psychedelic-like experiences is indogynously. And that has been my experience. And that was my experience during this, during this particular breath work, which we did. I did with a group of people,

it for anyone listening that's in L.A. or familiar with L.A. We went to Temeckle Canyon. And my friends got a permit to go on this hike after hours, like after the park was closed, it was a full moon. It was like all the things, right? And so we were, you know, laying on blankets and the dirt and this beautiful breathwork teacher who I've actually brought in to facilitate breathwork events that I've hosted since. Follow him. His name is Robert Starbuck. He's amazing.

If anyone's listening, he's one of the most brilliant teachers I've ever encountered. And he led this one hour long holotropic breathwork experience, which, like you said, it's akin to a psychedelic experience. And, you know, it really catalyzes this deep, this deep shift in not only your nervous system, but in the activity in your brainwaves. And I'm sure there's been some research on this and I'd love to see like the actual data, but, you know, I wasn't measuring my brain waves. I can just tell you from my own experience that I went into a very, very altered state of consciousness. And he led this beautiful higher self meditation at the end. So you're like, at the end of this one hour

journey, you're in a totally altered state of consciousness. You know, we're out in nature, we're under the full moon, you're laying on the ground on the earth. And so there's all these different variables that, you know, are creating the conditions for magic essentially, right? And he led this beautiful higher self meditation that guided you through a meadow. And he got all of your five senses involved, which really when you're, you know, in that five senses reality in a meditation, it really, it helps it really feel real, right? So it like teleports you into that, that vision. So I'm walking through this meadow, you know, I feel the grass under my feet and the breeze on my skin and I can smell the flowers and hear the birds chirping and feel the warm sun on my skin. And I'm there.

I'm in it, man. I am like, freaking, I'm in this vision. And in the distance, there's somebody having a picnic on a blanket. And it turns out that as he guides you through this vision, it's you. It's your older self. And this was such a freaking pivotal moment in my life for me that used to take me like a long time to tell the story and I couldn't get through it without crying because it was just so moving. But he proposes that you have the opportunity to ask your older self one question. And it was like in this moment, I knew the question and the answer simultaneously.

And the question that I asked myself in this very surreal but real like virtual reality mind movie that I was in where it literally felt like I was there having this encounter with my future self was tell me what I need to know. And she answered immediately like in the same moment of me asking it was like this this nosis, this knowing, this visceral knowing within me that you know everything that you need to know. just don't play small. And it was like, okay. So I did the right thing by selling the business because it was holding me back from going really big and from being able to really truly step into my power of knowing that I have, I have a story to tell. And so that was the birthplace really of Joppa.

And from that moment forward, the question always was when I was contemplating, what I was going to do next was am I thinking big enough? Like every time I would be thinking about it. So how am I going to solve this problem of where to start on a journey? Where to start on a personal journey of transformation and healing that my community came to me over and over and shared with me because I didn't know. I didn't know when I was selling that business what the solution was going to be. I just knew that I was going in that direction.

And it actually took me a year. it took me a year or two have what I call a download. You know, I just in a flash after contemplating, how am I going to solve this problem? How am I going to help people? How am I going to use my own experience as a template for others? I have a friend, his name is Traver Bohm. He's the founder of the uncivilized movement. And he's brilliant too.

And he says something, and I'm probably going to butcher this, something about like your your dark night or your journey of struggle, something to that effect, can be the first page in somebody else's survival guide. And that I knew. That I knew was that okay, I have this information and I want to use it as a template for people, but I just didn't know how. I didn't know what that was going to look like. I knew that I wanted to use technology.

that I wasn't opening another center. Like I wasn't opening another like physical brick and mortar location. And so I spent a year 100% just focused on my own growth. I went way deep into my meditation practice. And that was when I really started to feel the call to explore psychedelics. And I had had these psychedelic like experiences in my yoga practice in Shavasana, which for those people that are. listening that don't know what that is shavasana is the final pose in a series when you do a

yoga practice that is translated to corpse pose that's the name of it corpse right and you just it looks like you're going to take a nap you lay down on your back you spread your arms out and you just lay down and close your eyes and there's a lot of symbolism around this right it's you know it's death so what is it the death of right it's and to me it's you know it's death of the false self it's death ego. It's a death of the old story that no longer serves you. And it's also the practice of death before you die. And when you, in my experience, are able to do that, then you're really fully able to live. Because if you know that you're going to die and you accept that you're going to die, then you're no longer trapped by the fear of that.

then you're fully able to like surrender into what is happening in life right now in the moment. And so I was in these long, beautifully transcendental shavasana experiences where I would, I would push myself so hard in my yoga practice. I mean, like no holding back. I would go to the edge, right, the whole whole entire time. And then completely depleted in that last posture on my back, eyes closed. I would start to have these out of body experiences where I would literally leave my body and have this like, I'm hovering over myself. I'm seeing shapes.

I'm seeing colors. I'm having visions. I'm seeing light. Like it was all that. And I started to ask myself like, holy shit. What is happening to me? What is this? And why?

And how do I recreate it? And how do I teach others to go there? Like how do I actually create the conditions for people to to completely. transcend. And so I've been continuously working on that. And I think I've done a pretty good job helping others get there. My students have all had really great experiences. And, you know, I, I just love my relationship to teaching so much because it's, you know, the practice has done so much for me. But during this time, during this one year after I sold that business and between then and when I started working on Jopa Health, it all kind of came together for me.

Like the self-transcendence, the changes in my nervous system, the ability to access my truth and my authenticity and my own like spiritual awakening. And it was like another spiritual awakening. It was like a second spiritual awakening that I was going through called me to the curiosity of, well, if I can do this on my own and if I can teach, other people how to get there on their own, I wonder what it would be like to just like take a shortcut and just jump right in. And so I did. And the funny thing is, like, I think this is, you know, kind of common is that I had taken mushrooms in college without any intention of

having a spiritual experience, you know, like just to get high, just to be like, what is this? Just because it's what people were doing. And had absolutely no idea of the power of this spirit molecule, right? And so 2019 was a really transformative year for me, doing a lot of deep work. And ever since I had that vision of my future self, like everything really shifted for me. And suddenly one day, I had this download that if I can talk to somebody in a conversation and ask them questions about their journey, to help guide them towards their own curiosity, to help bring awareness to things that perhaps they don't know about themselves,

about their own shadow, about their own patterns, that then they can start to discover on their own ways in which they can liberate themselves from whatever it is that's holding them back. And if I can do that one-on-one, and I can repeat that with different people, then there's there's got to be a method here. There's got to be a method and a framework that I can formulate and automate. And it was once I had that clarity, it was boom. I got this download of an algorithm.

It was all in a flash. It was in a restaurant having a conversation with one of my clients. And I was like, wait, stop. I got it. I got it. I know what we're going to do. I figured it out. And he was like, what are you talking about?

And I was like, we're going to score. the forces that create vitality. We're going to score it. We're going to assess people. We're going to create an assessment and we're going to score it. And then we're going to base on the answers and the scores. We're going to give people suggestions. And then we can use technology to deliver that to millions of people.

And that's the solution. And I had that download on March 3rd of 2020. Wow. What a time to have that download. I know. I know. It's like right after that, you know, everybody goes into lockdown. And it was a great time for me because I love isolation. Oh my God. It was great for me as well. I was like, oh my God, everybody's on my level now, you know, like everybody's just at home focused on their health. And so I spent like the first half of that year building out the team, doing the corporate formation.

solidifying the vision and really working on the mechanics of how that algorithm was going to come to life. And that's what I've been focused on ever since. And then when I actually saw, I don't know that I ever told you this, I actually saw something that Gabrielle had posted because I'm a big fan of her work and you guys were together. And so then I started following you that way. And I just was like, I love this chick. She's just awesome. And then reached out to you sometime after that.

And I don't know when that was. I could probably go back and dig through. Yeah, I was thinking I'd have to scroll back for like 10 minutes to get to the top, probably longer to be honest. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't even remember like how it all went or whatever, like what I said or how we, how we connected. But it was, yeah, it was like this instant recognition of the type of energy that like I'm just so inspired by. So yeah, so thank you for showing up with that and being you and the willingness to participate in this mission of Joppa health that I think is such an important one. It's, you know, these days even harder for people than it was then, I think, and in my observation to figure out how to feel better, you know, how to live the most optimal life.

And thank God there's a lot of awakening happening. There's a lot of shifts happening. but still so many people are frustrated so many. Absolutely. Yeah, I think there's so much we could unpack. There's one thing I actually wanted to touch on because I had like this very intense dream last night that was like kind of this surreal. Like it was more than a dream. And there was like this cave with salt on the walls and it was known to be like a healing, a place of healing.

And I was in this cave and I was leaning against the salt wall and there was like a lake in side of it that was called Confucius Lake. I don't know. I literally woke up and I like took notes on everything. So anyway, I haven't figured out the symbolism of everything yet. But anyways, so there's this waterfall inside the cave going into this lake and I was sitting like at the top of the waterfall. And above the waterfall there was this light coming down and it was like in a square onto the water. And that was like the sun coming down. And I was leaning against the salt wall and I felt like this healing energy just like permeating into my body. It was like radiating through starting on my back where I was leaning there and it just like went through my whole being. And then I woke up shortly

after that. But it just, it felt very meaningful in some way, which I kind of haven't figured out yet. But another thing that like I had a realization on right after this is that so there was like a huge powerball lottery recently and it was like almost $2 billion. And then I had also been listening to the podcast with Joe and also Paul's podcast with Robert Forte all about psychedelic use in the past. And I like had this connection that in my mind that somehow winning the lottery is akin to psychedelics in that it's like this shortcut to a place that seemingly everybody kind of wants to get there at some level, but that without the plumbing, like without actually putting in the work to do it yourself,

you may not actually be able to hold it there. Like, same with acquiring large amounts of money. It's like if you don't actually have the infrastructure within yourself to know how to like get there and keep it and like manage that, so many people's lives get ruined from what I hear like from winning the lottery just because it brings on this level of responsibility and and recklessness. And a lot of people that they just, you know, don't know what to do with it. And I think similarly with psychedelics, like it can be transformative for some people just like winning a lot of money can be transformative for some people. But for a lot of people, it's like it can send you on a spiral or make you just realize how much is kind of needing to be changed in your life. And that can be absolutely overwhelming because it could require completely like complete death of who you are in order to be where you feel like you actually need to be.

And so I don't know, I just felt compelled to share that because of the pipes that you were laying doing the yoga and the meditation and the breathwork. It's like you're actually laying the infrastructure to be able to create these states. And I think if we're going to move into a society that is focused on using psychedelics in a constructive way, more commonly, that we also have to couple that with some laying of infrastructure to attain and maintain these states in a more organic way in order for them to be like of maximal benefit. I couldn't agree more because the things that are revealed to you on a medicine journey, right, a psychedelic experience can be incredibly confronting. And that's part of the beauty of it, right? Is that so you can actually see what you can't ordinarily see, right? It's like this is the shadow work.

But if you've never done shadow work or you've never experienced any kind of altered state at all, you know, you've never had that like transcendental deeply theta like. experience where, you know, there is like a very big shift in what's happening, you know, neurochemically, right? And you're just like, you're always in that alpha state, right? Like, if you're just always there all the time and you've never experienced that change, that change, um, you don't have the wherewithal or the tools, um, to integrate everything that you've just confronted. And that for a lot of people you hear like that they, you know, they had a bad trip or some people can even like become incredibly depressed afterwards and you know,

go into different types of shock. And it's like the opposite of what we want to accomplish with these medicine journeys, right? This is this is supposed to help us evolve, not devolve or not get stuck any further, right? I mean, because so many people are stuck as it is and then they're seeking these shortcuts, right? They're just like Western medicine and like the idea that, oh, you can just take a pill and fix everything.

Really, I think the message is that there is no shortcut. And that's not to say that there aren't people out there that can't have a beautiful transformative experience the first time they have a plant medicine experience. But I think the risk, like you said, if you don't have the tools, if you haven't done any kind of work on yourself, if you, you know, you don't know how to respond internally in your own internal landscape when you have an instrument. insight about yourself that's kind of dark when you're like, oh, I'm the asshole in that story, or I'm the one that's been holding me back, or I've been out of integrity, or whatever it is that

might come up in that realization, if you haven't ever had the ability to confront that and then process it, being confronted with like 10 of those things at once can really be overwhelming. And, you know, I have to say that there's been. there's been no other practice, even though I've tried so many things and still am a faithful student of all of them. And also sound healing has been profoundly healing for me. But there's, there's no other practice for me than like a solo awesome practice that can actually really get you there. And it just goes to say a lot about our ability to, this is a big part of what I teach, just to self-regulate.

You know, to be able to manipulate your own breath, manipulate your own body, manipulate your own energy, manipulate your own attention in a way that can move you from a negative state or any place that you're in at all into something more joyful, more in alignment, healthier, happier, more harmonious, more coherent within your system. And if there's like one thing that I could ever like, you know, teach or say to the world, it would be that, that you always have that power. And learning that within myself was everything for me. It was everything for me.

And so much of that encounter that I had with my like higher self or, older self or whatever you refute yourself was because and I think this is something that so many people can relate to like all my girlfriends pretty much everybody that I know struggles with some version of this unless you're a narcissist probably um of like imposter syndrome right of playing small of like being in your own way of having self doubt of identifying with your traumas right of being like oh well that's who I am and and this work that I've done for now almost 20 years daily has really laid the foundation for me to be able to I mean, I'm not going to say I never get triggered aside too. But yeah, to really be able to confront

discomfort. I love that. Yeah, psychedelics can be they can be uncomfortable. Yeah, that's actually, so I wanted to share a little bit about that because I've had quite a few bad trips, quote unquote, bad trips in my adult life and young adult life. And honestly, they were some of the most impactful for me because they gave me the opportunity to figure out how I had to be in order to move that energy. Because ultimately, when any bad trip is happening, and also this is just relevant to life in general, it's like energy is stuck somewhere. It's not flowing. And like, what do you have to do? What do you have to be in order to get things moving in that area? And so, like, that was really embodied like in the physicality in like basically all the bad trips that I've ever had.

And it was about me manipulating the way that my body was like how I was shaping myself, how I was breathing, how I was moving energy. So like I would use my fingernails and like stroke an area. I would use tapping, breathing, chanting. Also essential oils to like round myself. And like the ability to navigate those states is so vital in just like translating that to everyday life. when things come up and like out of left field and you need to be able to manage and regulate and self-regulate, like you said. These are like invaluable tools that often aren't taught in like any other contexts except people kind of by accident coming into these areas and we can learn so much from

them. And it actually served me quite significantly last year when I was having a lot of issues with histamine. And I think I had a parasite infection in combination with like post-COVID syndrome. like I was getting these histamine attacks a couple times a week last fall like early fall late summer and it was to the point where like I was super close to calling an ambulance like multiple times because I could barely breathe like my throat was swelling shut actively. That sounds terrible. And it was because it was literally like I was having a bad trip but I didn't take anything. So it was like crisis mode but I had all actually the tools that I had used previously and

I was able to self-regulate and not have to, you know, go to the hospital or do anything. I just basically used a lot of tapping, chanting, manipulating my breath, putting myself on certain positions, like kind of like child's pose or also like the corpse pose, both of those poses I used quite a bit during that time. And it was just like a very interesting, I guess, experience for me to have like a real life application of like some of these more challenging trips because I think right after a really hard or challenging experience with a plant medicine, it can feel like, why did I just, like, traumatize myself? And sometimes it can be quite traumatizing. But I think ultimately it's like,

with the right frame of mind, you're going to be learning from these experiences quite a lot. And if you are committing to doing some of this deeper work, you're going to encounter a lot of challenge. And it's important to just be prepared for that and just be open and curious about how you might be able to influence that and to, you know, ultimately make the experience a growth experience. That must have been so hard. I can only relate in the sense that I have a shellfish allergy, which by the way, I wanted to talk to you about that too, so we can talk about it now, actually, because, you know, I have Hashimoto's is the history that I have, right, which is the autoimmune disease of the thyroid, which there's so much symbolism there, because it's the

throat chakra and so much of my life was well because the throat chakra represents authenticity and self-expression right and it's like the bridge between your head and your heart and so you know if you look at the first sort of 10 years of my adult life when I was living out of alignment it's like somehow my heart always knew you know but then my head because my head was doing the logical thing which you know is what you're told to do so there was this disconnect right between the energy centers right so this this area was just like inflamed and stuck and yeah exactly totally stagnant and so the only thing I can relate to about that histamine crisis that you're having is that this shelf is allergy for me is something that I've had since

childhood and it's I know it's common but for me I can have hard shells so oysters thank God I can eat oysters and like muscles and clams and things but I cannot have anything is soft shell. So no crab, no shrimp, no lobster, without having a reaction. And for a very long time, up until the point that I was like about 30, I ate it anyway. Because who doesn't like lobster? Right? Like, it's delicious. And I was, I remember the day. And it was getting worse for me. It was getting worse. But so I was having it less often, but I was still having it. And then I remember the day, the very last time I ever had any shellfish. I had some shrimp and my throat, the inside of my throat, like from the back of my ears,

down my jaw and down, swelled inside so much that I could barely breathe. And it was absolutely terrifying. It was absolutely terrifying. And it just was for me, it was like the line in the sand that no more. I'm not doing that anymore. And I feel intuitively that there is a connection. There's some connection there with Hashimoto's. I don't know if there's, you know, scientific.

anything that you know about that. But somehow this whole idea that if you're going to have a reaction and it's in the throat, the throat center, it's just such a powerful center of our energy. That when that happens, there's something energetically, I feel, to examine. There is. And I will say for another level of context for me during that time, I still hadn't processed my mom's passing and it was just like this unspoken thing. Yeah, I completely relate to that.

There's so many emotional experiences that I've had that have been really heavy on me that I feel there's, you know, this pressure that I'll get in my throat, you know, the energy rises up from the root. It goes through the solar plexes, through my heart, and then it just sits. Yes. stuff like it's almost like a foot on your throat right yeah and that emotion that like i see you're emotional and what makes me want to get emotional it's like if we don't release that and if we are not authentic and if we don't process it it will literally manifest as disease within the body yes and i

feel as though there was you know the first 20 i don't know eight nine whatever it was years of my life that i was confused about who i was deeply deeply confused about who i was and there's this expression. I shared it on my Instagram stories, I think just yesterday that goes something like, do you remember who you were before the world told you who you're supposed to be? And for me, that contemplation was and is still to this day so fucking important. Like it just, we have been conditioned in such an extreme way to not be authentic. to not honor our feelings, to choke on our own emotions, right? To literally swallow our pain, to swallow our truth, that it gets stuck there.

And to me, there's no like coincidences at all, let alone the fact that I know for a fact, I was living out of alignment with my truth and then had this dis-ease of my throat chakra. So I'm sure I have no doubt that whatever it was that you were going through at that time with the breath and with this experience in your throat was emotional. I feel like it always is emotional. Like how can it not be? Totally. And I always think about Paul Chek. He talks about like emotion is energy in motion.

And if it's not in motion, it's stuck, it's dense. Like that's what, like you can literally feel that in your physical body. And I always joke like just personally, I have a really big mouth. always say that, but it's literally because if I try to not speak my truth in the moment, I feel my throat. Like, it feels like it's swelling shut. And I've been like this since I was a kid. Like, if I would get super stressed, like I would always feel it here. And it's because I'm not expressing what needs to be said in that moment. I think, yeah, that, you know, Robert, Robert Grant, who we're talking to, which is really exciting, you know, to explore collaboration with Jop. But,

talks a lot about how the epoch that we're in right now collectively as a humanity is this activation of the throat chakra, this activation of our ability to be authentic and to be creators. Like we now have an economy called the creator economy. We now have creators that that is what they do, that that is like the acknowledgement of their effort in the world, that this idea of being creative is directly the throat chakra is this expression out into the world of who you are what your message is what you have to say what you have to share and it's it's a really healing time i feel like on the planet for so many people to and this is part of why i like to show up and be who i am and talk about my journey and why it's so great for me to be here and for people to hear

it is because I feel like when you're able to do that, when I'm able to do that, as hard as it is for me. And there's some topics in particular that are still as much healing as I've done deeply difficult for me to talk about. But I know that when I do, I give permission to others to do the same, to free their own voice, to free their own energy out of that trap. Because ultimately, the higher energy centers are where we want to go, right? I mean, to have access doesn't mean we want to live up here all the time, right? Being ground is important. Being in our solar plexus center and our gut is important. But for some people, they just live so often and sadly, continuously in survival, right?

In that lower energy center in just fight or flight, which is where I was for so long in fight or flight. And you can't be creative, right? You can't access your heart. You can't access your creativity. You can't access your intuition and higher knowledge when you're in those lower energy centers when you're stuck there. And the ability to have full access to all of that is a really beautiful thing. It doesn't mean we stay there all the time. It doesn't mean that you don't like, you know, like I said, get triggered and go back down or have stress.

I mean, life is inherently stressful. But to know and have the tools to clear and alchemize. And like you said, that inner frame. that inner landscape, all the tools to be able to, number one, recognize when that's happening. Like you were able to recognize for yourself what was happening and then you were able to have the fortitude in that moment to reach into your toolbox and say, I know how to help myself. And I wish that for everyone. Because what happens instead is escapism.

Mm-hmm. What happens is people go to self-soothe and unhealthy ways, even if that's pharmaceuticals, which, you know, I can argue are probably never the right choice, but, you know, can be a bridge in some cases when it's a crisis. But, you know, they don't create health. They don't, they don't give you access to your heart or your throat or your third eye. So having the tools for you is so important because like tapping, for instance, is not one of my go-toes. But it works for you. So that's what I'm so passionate about is creating this library that, you know, as you know, we have like thousands of topics already in our JAPA Health library in this recommender engine that we built that, you know, can truly help guide people towards

the tools that are most likely going to be optimal for them and to help educate them on, you know, what that can be so that they can understand the science behind it, how it works, why to do it, when to do it, how to know if you're doing it, right? You know what I mean? Like, this is something that I think the world needs so, so desperately. And the fact is that, like, it never ends. Like, the discovery of that, you know, like, it's not like you have. have one mystical experience and you're like, okay, I'm fixed. You know, it never ends. Yeah, I mean,

health is really a journey and not a destination and it's an active process that, you know, you're kind of always striving for something. It's not like there's just one final destination for you to be in order to be healthy. It's going to constantly change depending on the season of your life, you know, what's going on for you, what your goals are. That can look totally different. And I just wanted to mention one thing that you kind of sparked inside me when you're talking about the chakras and like moving energy up and down the spine and the chakras like something I think a lot about in this context is just like the crippling effects of debt on so many people and how it just makes the root chakra so leaky and it's like now you're kind of losing energy there and you're not

able to like ride that up into the higher levels and you're so much in this scarcity mentality and it I mean it can be like life or death for some people and I think it's something that's not really spoken that much about, but it's like this thing that most people are suffering with. It's so true. And not only are they suffering there, but they feel quite literally stuck there. And they identify with that, right? Like, they identify with being in lack. Like, and that they, they just don't believe there's enough and they'll, they'll never have enough. And I've been in both places. Like, I've been in a place of actual physical abundance where there was like so much cash. and then I've been in place where there's no cash and there's lots of debt and lots of pressure.

And what has been remarkably powerful for me is in remembering and knowing and embodying within me that there is always enough and there is always access to it. And when there seems like there's not enough, like if you're having a day where you're like, okay, you know, money's tight or I can't pay my bills or, you know, worse, I'm like, you know, going backwards, that that is changeable. You are never stuck. I mean, I remember when I was going through my dark night of the soul, there was so much inside of that.

There's so many layers of that that I used to, I had this beautiful house in this beautiful, and bougie neighborhood, like on a golf course with my ex-husband. And we had dual his and hers master closets. and I had when I bought the house, I had like the closet company come and build out this like a inoxious closet with a refrigerator in it and all kinds, you know, it's like that. And it was like the only place that I could go on the property where I kind of felt like it was like my own. Right.

Because I shared the house with him. And I used to sit in that closet and cry and cry and cry and cry and cry. I mean, it was, I had no idea. And I used to think to myself, what does the other side look like? Like, how do I get out of this? It just was like abysmal to me, like abysmal. Like, I couldn't even have a vision for what a different situation could possibly look like. I didn't know how to even take the first step.

I had no idea. And I just, I felt literally stuck. And I remember. I would imagine this hallway. I would be in that closet. And I would imagine this hallway. And I would imagine that I opened the door and I closed it behind me. And that I was in a hallway.

And ahead of me at the end of the hallway was another door. And I imagined in my mind that like on the other side of that door was like some, other life, like some utopia, some freedom, some happiness, some something else, some other reality. Because the like reality I was living in was a version of hell. And, you know, one step at a time and it wasn't easy at all. And I cried a lot. And I suffered a lot. I made it eventually to the other end of the hallway. And I remember telling that story to somebody. while I was in it, like while I was in the shit. And then ran into them like, I don't know, a year or two years later.

And they were like, hey, so, like, how are you? Where are you? And I said, I'm on the other side of the door. And I locked the door and I threw away the key. And I resonate with and know and understand what it feels like, like deeply to be completely. in scarcity. Like the most abysmal feeling of not having love, not having support,

not having community, not having resources, and not having faith either, which I think is the ultimate scarcity. Like truly, energetically, like feeling like it's just not possible. I know what that feels like.

And that's why I'm here. And that's why I show up to tell the story because I know that there's a lot of people out there suffering in that place. And having the faith and the belief is the first step. And just knowing, like, looking around at other people that have stories of overcoming incredible situations and being able to alchemize that pain, it's possible. Like, if I can do it, anyone can do it. I've been in hell. like yeah really bad really bad places and um the thing that i say that it's like actually it's actually in the investor presentation that i give when i'm pitching joppa is that um the cessation of pain

and the expansion of consciousness are the same they are the same so getting out of pain and having a spiritual awakening are this the same process. And so whatever it's going to take for healing to happen is the same process as coming into your truth and coming into your heart and coming into your faith and coming into contact, which what I never in a million years would have imagined if you would have asked me 20 years ago how I feel about God. I probably would have laughed at you. But now I have such a deep profound relationship with source

that when you know deeply that you are God and that you are a part of source and you're just one aspect of the divine, then you come back into your faith. And that is how you start to get out of that process of feeling stuck in scarcity, in my opinion and of course moving the energy.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Yeah, it is a problem. Yeah, yeah. And also that also plays into like people actually need to have the desire to get out of their situation like at a fundamental level like some people will say that they do but deep down it's like it's too scary to consider what might be on the other side of that and it's like the phrase the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know it's like at some level it becomes almost like an addiction like these circuits that are running day in day out they become so normal to you and like comfortable

that the idea of doing anything differently could be absolutely terrifying and could keep you stuck where you are, even if you are miserable. It's at least predictable. Yeah, no kidding. I know that. Yeah, I know that feeling all too well. But I think deep down people know. Yeah. Deep down, you know, I think that for me, my guess in that case is it's unworthiness. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so if you don't feel like you're worthy of better, like that's all you're worthy of is, you know, breadcrumbs in life. Mm-hmm. And that's all you're going to get. Yeah. There's also a thing with like, boundaries too. Like sometimes, a lot of times, especially women will put others before themselves

and they're not willing to cause other people pain for their own, like to meet their own desires and like what their own needs are, even if, you know, they are being heart centered and they know that this is actually what they need to do. If that inflicts pain and whether that's emotional pain or otherwise on other people that they feel like that's a boundary they're not willing to cross. Yeah. I mean, there's so much to unpack there about, you know, your relationship with your parents. I had to do a lot of that work. I really had to do a lot of that work for myself and to look at, you know, how do I love myself? Like if you would have asked me before I went on this journey, if I love myself, I would have been like, yeah, duh, of course I

love myself. But then unconsciously, I really didn't. It's what's unconscious. And that's why these tools, these practices, somatic practices that get you into an altered state are so freaking important because you cannot objectively see your shadow. You cannot objectively see the program that's running underneath the surface. And that's what's governing your life. You know, Carl Young said it. Right? Like until you make the subconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it

fate. And that's such an important concept to understand that, you know, if somebody is feeling stuck, they may be they are, but they can unstuck themselves if they look at the shadow. that's running that. What is that program? And it's like you upgrade the software on your iPhone. Right? Like they come out with an upgrade and you upgrade to a new what 14 point whatever, 15 point whatever because they debug it and they have better, you know, operating mechanics so that it, you know, the camera works better and whatever, right? But we have to do the same thing because there's these outdated programs that live within us that keep us in this experience of a certain

reality that we're manifesting for ourselves, that we're creating unconsciously for ourselves. And that can change. You have the power to change that. Totally. So much of it is like this self-fulfilling prophecy where it's like what you expect happens because that's what you're looking for. And we're, I know. Yeah, we have to stay open to like what's actually happening and not have this selection bias of like, I'm only looking for evidence to support this maladaptive belief that I have. have that, you know, I'm not good enough. I'm not worthy of love or whatever the belief is. Instead, like, try looking for evidence of the opposite.

Right, right. And I think it's just about curiosity. Like, why? Why do you believe that? Like, just going continuously deeper and deeper and deeper into the why behind whatever is governing your life, whatever the patterns are that keep showing up over and over again. And really, truly, look in the mirror and ask yourself, like, what is it about these realities that you're experiencing and these patterns that you're experiencing that you are actually calling in and creating. And I mean, I was absolutely guilty of creating painful experiences in my life. In my relationships, it was very obvious. I was continuously attracting men into my life that didn't value me. And then I was like constantly begging to be seen and constantly begging to

be loved. Like somehow I was trying to like validate myself. But it was all unconscious. And then I would ask myself, you know, are all men like this, right? Like blaming the situation instead of taking responsibility for like what it is that I'm attracting, what it is that I'm creating? What is it that I believe about myself and what is the signal that I'm sending out into the field about myself? Because that's the program that's running is like it's sending out. out a frequency, it's sending out a signal. It's literally broadcasting a belief system,

whether you're aware of it or not. And through the practice, in the stillness, when the mind gets quiet, you know, you're on your yoga mat, you've been in practice for, I don't know, 30 minutes. Obviously, when you start your practice, you know, you have your mind, you know, your to do list, your emails, you're, what are you going to do later? Like, the mind is doing what the mind does, right? It just produces thoughts. And you identify with those thoughts. But then at a certain point in the practice, when shit starts to get real and you're fatigued and it's harder to regulate your breath and you're holding a long posture. And it's like, all you can really focus on is the physical body because that's all that's

happening right now. It's so overwhelming that it requires all of your attention. And it gives you this ability to unplug that tape that's running, right? like program that's running. You're not doing it on purpose. It's just the side effect of the practice is that it stops the tape. It stops the tape long enough that you can shift your awareness to something else. And it is inherent in that process that when you step outside of that story, that you can actually see it for what it is. And so I started in my own journey of doing all this work of having these insights of like, oh, that's why I am the way I am.

Or, oh, that's why I keep attracting these experiences into my life. Oh, that's why I'm not speaking my truth. Oh. And so then being able to befriend the shadow and say like, okay, so thank you for protecting me from what you thought I needed to be protected from. But I don't need you to do that anymore because I've graduated from that. but first you have to see it. Absolutely.

It just made me think a lot about how disembodied we are as a society. Like a lot of people aren't putting them into themselves into situations where they're actually like fully inhabiting their bodies. And we've kind of become this kind of very luciferic civilization where it's like everything is being intellectualized to like the endth degree. And we're just so active in our minds and we're not thinking about how that actually lands in, in the body because we're not even there. And like, I think that's where like exercise in general, like yoga gets you there and like in a very profound way. And I think in a very like specific way. But in general, I think moving your body and like just engaging in activities that shut your mind off or quiet it down so that allows you to get into another vibration or another state of being.

It can be just so valuable for people. And I think we've just largely lost that because people are just like on screens all the time. engaging their minds all the time, not taking the time to shut that off. And I think it's no wonder that like so many people are touting all the benefits of things like yoga, meditation, and just like having a spiritual practice of some sort in general, because it's the thing that's missing in the modern human. Yeah, especially I think for men. I mean, at least for women, it is more acceptable, more socially acceptable to be in contact with our emotions and to express our emotions. And I hope this is changing. I think it's changing.

Like I said, I mentioned my friend Traver, the founder of the uncivilized movement. He does a lot of work in this space. There's a lot of beautiful men out there that are doing a lot of work in this space. Robert Grant even doing a lot of work in the space talking about the need to really balance the feminine and masculine energies within us. And for men in particular, I empathize because I know how it makes me sick when I don't express myself. And they're conditioned to hold back everything they feel and to always just be logical and

reasonable and, you know, problem solving mode all the time. Problems, they're always in their head. They're just always in their head. And this really is a problem because no, I don't believe any problem can be solved from the mind. I don't. And if you're a student of the gene keys, I think you're. are you've explored the gene key with Richard

Rudd, right? And there's like an entire chapter about this phenomenon that you know, the mind, you know, it's, it's of course God's purpose, but that's not where, that's not where we know things. That's where

we understand things. And where we know things is in the heart. It is in the body. And I feel this is shifting. I do. I feel this is starting to shift, but I mean, obviously there's still a lot of suffering going on. And there's a lot of people out there trying to. And I think we're all susceptible to this because it's part of how we evolved, right? It's like that fear-based, you know, perception to always be scanning our environment to make sure that there's not a danger. Otherwise, we could get caught off guard and like you can buy a lion.

Yeah, I also agree that I think it's shifting too. And I think it has no choice but to shift because the current model is failing. Like people are sicker than ever and we spend more money on health than ever. And, you know, polypharmacy is the status quo. And yet, you know, people aren't getting healthier. They're getting more sick. And so it's like we can only go on believing the delusion for so long before we're honest and the fact that like we need to change this paradigm because it's not working at all. It's actually doing the opposite. it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I think there's a thirst, like a real thirst for, okay, well, what else? This isn't working. So what else? And that's why you see this, like, real uprising and like the self-help movement and the spiritual communities and so many amazing influencers out there that are really sharing, like the same message of what we're talking about. I mean, there's so many amazing people raising their voices now back to the creator economy of people, you know, sharing their stories of their own journey because we know that that polypharmacy model, it doesn't work. I mean, I'm a walking example of that.

I mean, you know, you go to the doctor, you get diagnosed with Hashimoto's or any other condition. And what do they do? They take out their prescription pad and they write you a prescription. And there is absolutely no pharmaceutical drug that creates health. It doesn't. it doesn't totally yeah and i also i talk about this i think i talked about on another podcast but it's also on my website but it's like that health and disease are on a spectrum and it's like you can go from

disease to this point of neutrality and like that's not health that's just getting you to some sort of baseline to actually actively right health it's like you have to actually go the extra you have to go the extra length and that's a active striving process that yeah no drug is going to address that the vast majority of the drug is going to address that the vast majority of the drug on the market are mostly masking symptoms. And, you know, that's only delaying the healing process ultimately because it's, it's, it's throttling the messenger. It's not allowing the messenger to give you the message so that you can, you know, make changes in your life. And so, yeah, which is divine, divine messages, right? Which is just like, it's a real assault. It's a spiritual

assault, right? To interfere with that divine process of, of the, the, the, the, reception of that message. And if a human being is able to divert that message, then, you know, it's, it's like an, it's an insult to God. I mean, it's an insult to, to the process. Because that message has a purpose. It's like, it's not for nothing, you know, it's, it's, when we can shift our understanding and our perception of pain into thank you for this message, I think then we've really

created a real shift in humanity. and hopefully we'll get there before we kill ourselves. But I think we're on our way. I mean, I'm definitely seeing it for sure. And I have hope. I believe in the human spirit. I do. I really do.

I do too. And I think COVID really catalyzed an awakening in many people, like just seeing the fraudulence of the powers that be and like how actually incompetent and how little they actually know, even though they espouse otherwise. and like just so much was shown and illuminated during that time that I think it's really been a huge catalyst for this awakening collectively. And that also gives me a lot of hope.

Yeah. It did backfire big time. Yeah. And also like the pressure, the pressure, right? And like the coercion and like, you know, have a donut. Take a shot. Have a donut. Take a shot.

Like what? The first time that I really was, you know, aware of this. and it was so shocking for me was when I was given cynthroid, which is a synthetic thyroid hormone replacement. And it's always in the top five most prescribed drugs in the country. At one point, it was the most prescribed drug in the country. I don't know if it is now or not, but it's definitely like the top three or four.

And they started me off like they do most people, like at, you know, 25, you know, microgrammed. or whatever the doses. I can't even remember anymore because I haven't taken anything like that in like 13 years or something now. And then you go back in and they check your blood work at, you know, some increment like 60 days later or whatever it is. And then they're like, okay, so we're going to increase it.

And then they keep doing that until when you go in and you get your blood tested, they say that, oh, your blood serum levels are now at a satisfactory level. And so I went through that process and that experience where they did that to me. and they said, okay, great, we're now going to keep you at, I got to like 88 was, I remember the dosage that I was on. And they were like, okay, your levels look great now. You know, you're good. We're going to keep you on that. And we'll just check you every like six months or so. And I was like, you know, but I feel worse. I don't feel better actually at all. I feel worse. And like physically you could see I didn't look good at all. I had lost like significantly more hair.

And I had like eczema on my body, like these weird skin rashes. And I had, I was complaining of so many things, like severe constipation. Like I'm talking like it was severe. Weeks would go by. Nothing would work. It was nothing. It was, I was so miserable. And then I had systemic candida.

And I stopped getting my period. And I had like eye floaters and night sweats and mouth sores. And I mean, I could just go on and on. I mean, some of the things I even forget until somebody will mention a symptom. I'm like, oh, yeah, I had that too. So bad. It was just so fucking bad. It was a drain wreck, right?

My immune system was just disaster. And it wasn't really until then when they were like so happy with themselves. They're like, oh, we did such a good job. We got the blood serum levels up to where they're supposed to be. You're set. And I'm like, yeah, but I feel like an alien took over my body. What are you talking about? Like, when does the feeling better part start happening?

And so that's when I started, that's when I started asking myself, like, well, how did I get this in the first place because like if they're not helping me maybe I can figure out well why did I get this and like how I can somehow undo it or make myself better like there's got to be something more like that was for me I don't know where that came from but just like the curiosity that was within me to take some amount of control of how I was feeling because they didn't help and one of the things that and I would love your scientific knowledge on also for your audience because I think this is just so unbelievably important to understand is that my understanding of this and correct me somewhere along the way if I'm if I'm totally off base is that your thyroid makes T4,

which is the main hormone, right? So it's four iodine molecules, which is the synthetic thyroid hormone that they give you, synchroid, which is the brand name, is also four iodine molecules. But it's not the active form in the body that your tissue is able to receive, right? The receptor cells, the receptors on the cells are able to receive T3, right? Which is the active form that you're able to metabolize, that gives you the ability to have energy and all of the other things that your thyroid does in the body, which is so many different things.

And when I understood that, and I started to go a little bit deeper and I said, okay, so I'm taking synthetic T4, but what I really need is T3. How does that happen? And then I started to learn that that happens in the liver mostly. Is that true? That's true, right?

So I think a variety of different tissues have the ability to convert T4 into the active form. I'm actually not, like, I don't know a lot about thyroid hormone metabolism. There were other people in my lab at Princeton that were working on this. And we were actually super interested in it because we, like the person who was working on it, at least had this hypothesis that actually most of what thyroid hormone was doing was actually through the manipulation of water in the tissues and like partitioning of water and that a lot of the metabolic effects were like a side effect of that like controlling ion flux like different electrolytes versus water and but yeah I think I think some other tissues have the ability to make

that conversion I'm sure the liver I think in the adrenals yeah I think the adrenals too but I think from my research and I mean we could both probably dig into this a little bit more but I just remember at one point having this realization that the liver plays a really important role in the conversion of T4 to T3. And then I dug a little deeper and it was like, oh, so I had been on birth control for a long time, which we know has an impact on your liver and also depletes your body of essential minerals. And I had always had like an incredibly low tolerance for alcohol. Like I was that girl in college that if I had like one drink, I was vomiting in the bathroom. Like I just, I don't have, yeah, I just, I, I've always kind of suspected that there was like some sluggishness in my liver and,

you know, there's some, I think, suspicion for me that it goes back to childhood vaccines. I'm not really sure, but I just have some intuition around that. But I started to get really curious about, well, why are they giving people all this T4 if that's not what your body needs? And if you're not properly converting it, then why are they celebrating the fact that your lab results are saying that you have the adequate levels of T4? And then you have the patient saying, but I still don't. don't feel well, which should obviously mean, like, if you have any sense at all and any

ability to objectively analyze a situation, you should be able to say, okay, well, you have a conversion problem. And giving you more T4 isn't going to make you better. And I don't care what the normal, the normal lab range says. I really don't care about that. I care about if I feel better or no. So you're not doing me any favors by putting me into a box and saying, I've done my job by artificially inflating my blood serum levels of T4 when that's not even its it's usable form in my body. So when I started to dig into this and I started to understand that the doctor doesn't know shit about my experience. I just lost all confidence in the medical system. I'm like, this seems pretty basic to me. This doesn't seem, do you know what I mean?

This isn't a stretch. Like what's going on here? Yeah, like if I can figure this out, you know, and I'm not a scientist, nor have I been to medical school, and I can just read a few things. Like, I don't even really have to go that deep into the process to, like, connect the dots and say, okay, well, this is truly how it works, then the intervention that they're offering me makes zero sense. It's illogical. And that really was the beginning for me of, like, having complete loss of faith in the medical system, you know, complete loss of trust. And it became quite a joke to me, quite honestly. And there's so many times like, you know, somebody will say something like, oh, well, did you ask the doctor? I'm like, well, for what?

Yeah, right. For what? So they can give me some chemicals? I don't want that. I don't need that. Yeah. They just give like a scripted answer. And as a drug dealer, they just decide which drug to throw out. As a drug dealer. That's right, as a drug dealer. So we have to be our own drug dealer. Because like I said about my experience, having psychedelic-like, transcendental-like, euphoric experiences endogenously. You can create that. You can create. I mean, you are your own pharmacy. Yes. I mean, by definition, any molecule that you ingest that's bioactive is mimicking something that your body makes. That's why it can make the interaction with a receptor and call. falls in effect. It's like whatever your body is, whatever you're taking into your body is going to be mimicking something that's already in your body. So it's just a matter of figuring out how to leverage that, what you need to do, how you need to be in order to get the effect that you're looking for. I honestly think a lot of like the testing, like lab tests, I think they can have a place or whatever,

like for initial diagnoses. But I think a lot of the times they can kind of lead you down like little side like dead ends basically because you're chasing this lab valve. value and then you think that's the goal to optimize that, but if that's not actually corresponding to the symptomology and like how you're presenting, which was the case in your case, like, that's what's most important is how the patient, how the person is feeling. And a lot of times these lab tests are like, that's what's most important. Yeah. That's what's most important. And it's like somehow like you were talking about getting, you know, lost and not having a sense of connection to the body, like not being embodied. It's, it's so important that we trust the body and that we

We listen, deeply listen to an honor and have a reverence for what it is that the body's telling us. And I'm so grateful for that version of me that was able to say no to that process. And I didn't settle. You know, I didn't settle for that. And, you know, I would like implore anybody that's struggling in their life with anything just to not settle because you deserve so much better than that. and it's entirely within your power to achieve greater experiences, more elevated experiences, higher attainment of, you know, joy and energy and love and appreciation for life.

Because I know, I know what it feels like to be in that place where you're not enjoying. You're not in joy. You're in fucking hell. And we can get out of it ourselves. And this whole system of your, you're, you. you're weak and you can't fix yourself and we don't know why you got that way. It's just bad luck. It might be your.

It's so much ingrained in victim consciousness. It's so much ingrained in I'm a victim of everything outside of myself and all these things outside of myself have power over me and I'm powerless. And that is the biggest lie. Right there is the biggest lie. This actually reminds me of, I don't remember who I was just listening to speak, but they made this comment about how if you're going out to dinner with a friend and they say they're treating, that implies that they're paying. Well, then we co-op that language in medicine where it's like a treatment implies that the doctor is doing it for you. They're treating you. They're taking care of it for you. But it's like that's exactly the lie. It's like the work has to be done by you. It's your body. It's within your power and responsibility to, you know, make those changes and fix what needs to be. fixed. Nobody can do that for you despite the language that's being used. That's not true. It can't be true. It can't be true. And that I think is one of the biggest paradigm shifts that has to

happen in order for there to really be a true collective consciousness shift is this idea that the people are lazy. And if you read any of the ancient philosophical texts, the yogic text, it's very clearly outlined from thousands of years ago what the primary obstacles to success on the path are. And they're called the Klesias. And the ancient mystics knew that this is the human condition and laziness is one of them. You know, it's like it's ignorance of the true self, it's delusion, it's incorrect knowledge, and it's laziness. And until we're able to overcome that within ourselves, we're I think always going to be looking for some shortcut. And I mean, I can't say where it came from within me.

I don't have the answer for that. Like, where do people find it within themselves? But I just knew that there was a better way in my soul. I just knew that like, this is bullshit. Like, you're going to give me this pill. You're going to tell me I'm good. You're going to send me on my way. But I'm not good.

And I just didn't believe the lie. I didn't know what it was going to look like. I didn't know it was going to lead me down this path. I never in a million years could have imagined that I would have gone from studying business economics and, you know, being in real estate finance to being essentially a spiritual teacher, right, and a healer and a technologist. But that's my truth, you know, and I think that I heard it before. And I think it was Oprah who said it.

I'm not going to take credit for it, although I'm not really a fan of hers, but I think it was her that said something like, you know, you're healed when you can say thank you for the lessons. And I can truly look back at all of the suffering that I experienced. I mean, deeps, and I flicked it all on myself, all of it, like all the choices that I made. Now, I didn't know I was doing it. I wasn't doing it intentionally, but I certainly created all of those experiences for myself. And I think that the most painful one was in the seeking of happiness outside of myself, in the seeking of a solution outside of myself.

And I can look back on all the pain that that caused me and say for certain, I'm grateful. I'm so grateful because I learned through that. I learned that I was able to see what the message. were, see what the lessons were, that how you get out of that shows you really are. Amen. Amen. I feel like the same way for myself. Like, I definitely wouldn't have gone down this path if I didn't have all these horrific experiences as a kid and as a young adult around my health, like, that really inspired me and fired me up to want to say like, fuck this system. Let's build something else. Like, we don't need to be living this way. It's not, it's completely

counterproductive and we can do something better. And I'm also at a point. And it's also cool in some ways because like I can look back on my life and I can honestly say that like I'm the best I've ever been right now. Whereas I feel like a lot of people, you know, feel like they peaked in high school and they kind of just let themselves go from there as if like they're, they've just kind of accepted some weird fate. But it's like actually you can get better every year. And I mean, that would be a worthy goal and ideal to have is to like feel like you're bettering yourself every year. And like the sky's the limit. Honestly. it's um yeah maybe people also just aren't thinking big enough like your older self said to you like

yeah and i feel the same exact way and i'm going to be 44 in a couple months less than two months i'll be 44 and i'm stronger i sleep better i'm happier like i have better relationships like everything in my life is the best it's ever been and when i was 25 years old when you should be like happy and strong and healthy you know with your whole life ahead of you i was like sick and having, you know, this major dark night of the soul. It was a disaster. But yeah, you know, the system, man, it's just, I think it's, it's going to just kill itself. You know what I mean?

Like, it's just, it's going to, yeah, it's going to fall on its own sword, I think. And as we naturally evolve and as the frequency rises and more and more people are coming into their authenticity, it will, it's that, you know, rising tides lift all ships right so the more of us that stand up um in a new way and we show up in a new way um we offer that to the world and we're able to say now well if i can do it you can do it and i give you permission to be different and everything is going to shift everything is going to shift absolutely i think one thing that um i was thinking about when you're talking about like laziness and just like inaction or unwillingness to do the things that need to be done,

makes me think about like Dr. Jack Cruz's work. I know you're a big fan of him as well. And just like the really messed up circadian lifestyles that we've built that are like antithetical to living healthfully. And I think this kind of also opens the door up to like different conspiracy theories as well. But it's like the fact that we've orchestrated this environment that's just so antithetical to our well-being. It's like, was this orchestrated? Are the people pulling the strings knowing what they're doing? Or is this literally just kind of following this luciferic path of like intellectualization? And is this the natural progression that's ultimately going to be, you know, like you just said, killing itself.

And we're going to come back home to, you know, what is actually true. But just the idea that like everything that we're doing on, you know, living indoors on screens all day and just the way that we work, the way that we live our lives is conducive to not having energy. to do much of anything else. And if you don't have the activation energy, it's hard to do the things you need to do just because it's like you're kind of flat. For sure. I mean, light?

I mean, get me started on this topic. Light is everything to me. And you know, I am very dedicated to watching the sunrise and the sunset every single day. And that absolutely changed my life. I mean, completely. Especially as somebody with a history of, you know, thyroid dysfunction and you know the whole feedback loop right the hpa access everything for me was just a

nightmare and i had dysfunctional cortisol and my cycles were a mess and i would be wired and tired at night and then not be able to get up in the morning and i know this is a pattern that so many people suffer from and i you know i was going to an office with fluorescent lights you know and sitting sitting under those fluorescent lights all day literally the worst um and never had any awareness of, you know, the need. I mean, obviously, things have changed and the advent of social media and the message has gotten out a lot, you know, I mean, this was almost 20 years ago now when I was diagnosed with this disease. And so, you know, a lot has changed and there is a lot more awareness about it now. Thank God. But there's still a lot of people that just, they don't

appreciate the power of connecting to nature. And I remember once asking my mother, because she was pregnant with me in 1979 and went to and I was born in Florida and went to Disney World. And there was a Monsanto display that she said had like a big old banner and it was like the food of the future. Oh, no. And they had these massive, like alien like, you know, like an eggplant that was like this big. And, you know, it was all genetically modified. And I remember asking her when she told me the story.

Like, did anybody think that was weird or like dangerous? Like what was the consensus? And, you know, she said, no, everybody thought it was a great idea. And I think, of course, throughout history, you can look back and you can see skeptics around anything innovative, right? I'm sure you could identify lots of skeptics, you know, even around electricity. I know Rudolph Steiner talked a lot about electrification of the earth and, you know, what the consequences were to this non-native electromagnetic frequency on the earth.

And there are, of course, people that, you know, we're skeptical. But I think these conveniences, going back to laziness, right, these conveniences that have made things in our life simpler, they seem to be like magic, right? And I don't know. You can ask and we can debate and discuss and have questions about was there malintent, you know, was it malicious? Is this a spiritual war that has been ongoing for a long time, basically to diminish the vitality and the spirit and the consciousness of human beings and enslave them into a system of consumerism and, you know, basically siphon their energy off to, you know, support very few people on the planet that, you know, are really like the puppet masters that are pulling the strings and that are producing these systems? And, you know, there's a lot there that you could point to that evidence shows, yeah, that's what's going on. But then you could also just argue that it was just in their part unconscious. And it was just human beings creating things.

It was just human beings, just innovating things. And by virtue of the human condition of this like lazy nature that we have that we have that we We want things. We want things easy. We do. And I get it. I want things easy too. I want it all super easy. I want all the abundance to come to me. I want the perfect body and the perfect health. And I don't want to have to work for it. But that's just not how it works. Yep, that's the rub. And I actually just listened to another one of Paul's podcast with Paul Levy. And they were talking about Watiko, which is like apparently it was brought up a lot in Native culture, like Native American culture. but they called Watiko like this mind virus that would basically infect your unconscious and, like, drive you to essentially do its bidding.

And essentially it's like propaganda, brainwashing, like that's all the same thing. And it's like you said, when something's easy and convenient, it's easier to take that route and follow the path of least resistance versus questioning and, you know, doing something else that may take more energy and effort to do. But the thing that really annoys me about like the whole non-native EMFs and like the light situation is that if we were just honest about the negative impacts on our biology, we could just make technology better. We could just design technology that doesn't have these effects. Like we're all, you know, there's a lot of brilliant minds in the planet. I'm sure we could get it done. But the fact that we're denying it is just defend. Yeah, they continue to defend it.

And the medical system is the same. Like, I mean, there was a doctor. I'm not going to name his name, but I invited him to be part of the Doppah team. And he, like, attacked my character because I shared on Instagram a story and some hardened facts. Like, they were facts, undeniable facts about the negative effects of some things that are considered benign, like Tylenol. Right. And, you know, he basically attacked. my character because he he couldn't accept the truth. Wow. He couldn't accept the truth.

And so it was easier just to point the finger at me and say like, you know, I'm a terrible person. And his vehemently defending the medical establishment and the medical system is what the problem is. And it's amazing what can be done. I mean, it is absolutely. remarkable what can be done and in crisis situations um western medicine is a miracle but to continuously defend all the things that aren't working doubling down yeah it does prevent any type of evolution and it's like that lack of humility to say okay we've come really far we've done amazing things but we still have more to do and some of the things some of the things that we've done actually we now know have had unintended consequences.

And inside of that system, there's just such an arrogance that is really doing humanity a disservice. Because if we all, like you said, are honest about it, then we can move forward. But until then, that's why I think that system is just going to kill itself because the arrogance is just too thick. Yeah, it's imploding. And I really, that kind of just stems back to the whole insurance model of medicine and like medicine. being ingrained into the capitalist system in general. It's like, of course, if you're a system operating within capitalism, you're optimizing for profits. You're not optimizing for the health of the population.

And so I think there's a lot of incentives for doctors to take the safe route and use the treatments that have been used and, you know, do the thing that's been done for a couple decades or longer because then they're not, they don't have the liability on them and have to worry about the malpractice. And from the whole insurance standpoint, insurance will cover it because, you know, it's been shown to have these effects for this period of time, versus, like, if there were honest interactions between physicians and patients being like, you know, we can try these things. Like, some things may not work. These are the possible side effects. We may need to pivot. And like, it's an experimental process between a patient and a

provider. And if things were approached and also in like a more sacred way where like the physician actually knows you, like back in the day, physicians used to go to the home and they used to know you and your family and they used to see your environment and be able to understand your life better, we need to get back to like this, if we're, you know, to have medicine and I think we'll always need medicine in some capacity and like people who are trained in it, we need to restore the like healthy relationship between physician and patient and not have these like overworked, overburdened, highly in debt doctors who are burned out and embedded in the system that's working against them constantly. Yeah, the doctors as, as I see it, are.

just as much victims of the system as the patients are. Yes. I feel bad for the doctors because, I mean, I see that, you know, so many of them have the best intentions, you know, that they want to care for their patients, but they're not given the conditions to do that. They're operating inside of a framework that gives them no freedom. It gives them no time, like you said, to get to know the patient. And they're limited in their understanding and in their tools because the entire

medical school curriculum is designed around writing prescriptions. It's like match symptoms with prescription, that's medicine, you know. And I know there's exceptions out there and there's some doctors that, you know, do things differently. But by and large, I mean, I think that that's like a, I think that that's an assessment of the way the system works that we can pretty much all agree with. I mean, like, that's how it is. That's how it is.

They're not all that well trained in actually, like, my experience with Hashimoto's. Like, you know, I had horrible leaky gut. I was on the wrong diet for me. And I needed to support my liver. I needed to get out into the sun. I mean, there was some very basic, really fundamental things that create health that were off. They were just off in my life. And without any real radical changes, I mean, to me, those aren't radical changes. To me, getting back to our natural state. And it was like,

oh, nobody ever taught me this before. Yeah. It's not taught. But sadly, like, I know people and some of them, which you know, that if I suggest to adjust the circadian relationship in their life, they'll roll their eyes. Mm-hmm. Their eyes. And, you know, this is, this is just like a byproduct of, I mean, real brainwashing, you know, which is unfortunate, but it's not an eye roll. It's not.

No, it's fundamental. I mean, doctors in medical school, they aren't taught anything about the fundamental pillars of health. They're literally trained to be diagnosticians to diagnosticians, to diogen. and treat illnesses with medical drugs. They're not taught about health whatsoever. No, whatsoever. So I took it upon myself to do that. And when I started learning about what are the forces that create health, I was like, oh my God, this is so simple. This is actually really, really simple. And then once you get the foundation and the basics down, then you start to go a lot

deeper into like the spiritual stuff and the ancestral stuff and things that you can't see or touch you know like you can't you can't see your childhood trauma on a lab test you can't see ancestral trauma on a lab test you can't see your self-worth on a lab test you can't see limiting beliefs on a lab test but you know you can you can see your sleep data with your wearable and you know you can you can track you know and document your workouts and things like that and your heart rate variability and so you once you get down the basics of sleep hydration movement time in nature you can start going deeper into the real meaningful things in life and that's a really fundamental part of Joppa health is that I truly believe that and I know there's

anomalies. There's definitely outliers to this, but for the most part, a person will not experience a spiritual awakening when they're physically sick. And if your senses are blocked, because we experience life, we experience the reality around us through our senses. Our body is the vehicle for which we experience this world. That's how our eyes are able to see and send signals to our brain to process what's in front of us. That's how we're able to receive sound and that we can then send that like electrical impulse through our eardrum into our brain so that we can understand what that sound is actually representing. And everything in our environment is processed through our five senses. And then

everything that we ingest is processed through our digestive system, which then sends information up and down that bidirectional pathway from the gut to the brain. And so if all of that is not working, then you're going to be asleep. You're going to be offline, truly. And I was that way. It was like I was like a zombie. And I think about the level of brain fog that I had. And I look back at that time in my life and I like wonder like, where was I?

Mm-hmm. Where was I? You know what I mean? Like, because I wasn't present and I certainly wasn't connected to myself. I don't even know where I was. And so I know how important it is that we get the toxins out of the body, that we get like the liver, the kidneys, the adrenals, everything, like all the sex organs, the glands. Oh, my God, get your glands working right.

You know? get the feedback loop between all your glands working, right? Right? So that communication and that pathway is working correctly so that you go to bed on time and you wake up with the sun. And it's like until that is functioning properly within the human body, it is my opinion from my own experience that there cannot be a deeper meaning in life. There cannot be a connection to your purpose. Mm-hmm. So, she's terrible.

Absolutely. I mean, if the basic needs aren't met and, you know, your body's kind of fighting day in and day out, yeah, of course, you're not going to have any sort of deeper realizations or, you know, very spiritual experiences whatsoever. I mean, you kind of just tapped out. And if it's so painful to inhabit your body, yeah, of course you're going to be checked out and like just very cerebral and not fully there and present. Yeah. And at some point it's like you have, at some point it's like a feed forward loop and like you have to put something into the wheel to start turning it the other direction. Otherwise it can just spiral out of control. And so it's like I think people can kind of pick whatever in is easiest for them to start incorporating and then build momentum and then use that momentum to, you know, keep making positive changes in other aspects. And I actually think that's a beautiful aspect of Joppa, which is like it can give you this very targeted feedback that can allow you to understand. what the best ends for you might be, where you can start and where you can start to notice

changes and then help build that momentum so that you can ultimately, you know, get on a healing path in a way that's sustainable and that is like tracking also your milestones and giving you feedback so that you, you know, also like can maintain some motivation to stay on the path. Yeah. I mean, if you're not making progress, it can be really discouraging. But what I've experienced is that sometimes you'll be, and I think that this is something that people on a weight loss journey can really relate to is that you can be putting in work for a long time and not see any results. But then if you stick with it, what can happen is that like, boom, suddenly there's just like a huge shift where it like catches up to you where like, you know, you maybe even putting in

work for several months and you feel like you're not moving the needle. And then there's a sudden change. And, you know, this idea of, you know, like just trust the process is so important. and you don't really know how much more. And I even wonder now how much more there is to feel. How much deeper can I go? How much more connected to source can I be? How much more in my heart and in love can I be with life and appreciation?

And these elevated emotions, I think, are only possible when the physical body is in harmony, when the physical body is in homeostasis. And when you're in fight or flight, which I know that feeling all too well, there's no higher consciousness there's there's no um way that you can be in a state of creativity or love or innovation and that's really like the higher purpose for me of joppa is yes you know it's joppa health and yes we're like meeting we're assessing for symptoms and we're assessing for conditions and things like that and we're evaluating behaviors but really the idea is that we're acknowledging where you're stuck and where you're in pain

and then giving you conscious resources that can help you get out of that so that you can reach higher levels of attainment in your own life. So you can start to access greater depths of perception because the world is so incredibly beautiful. And there's so much to feel and there's so much beauty that is inaccessible when those senses are blunted. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think I'm super excited personally and I know you are as well for like the trajectory that Joppa's on and like all the things that are to come.

I mean, maybe if we're wrapping up here, do you want to share some insights about what people can expect and where people can find Joppa if they want to do the initial assessment now and and what that's going to look like moving forward? Yeah. As you know, an early stage technology company, it is difficult for me to say exactly. what it's going to look like. I know what my vision is. And that is a resource for people to have a baseline where they can get a score for their own vitality and then have conscious resources that can help them improve that in their own way with a feedback loop that gets to know them over time and continuously evolves with them to give them, you know, more resources and more feedback. as they travel down the path. There are a number of different ways that this could evolve.

We're in talks with some really big systems and players that are like coming to the market with an entirely new energy, which is really exciting to be a part of. But I don't know exactly what that's going to look like yet. I just know that when it comes fully online, it's going to be so immensely helpful for people. in a way that simplifies the process that's never been done before. And in its earliest form right now, it's an assessment that you can take. That's kind of like a quiz or a survey. It's just question and answer.

And you can take that assessment on the Jopah Health website, which is just joppa. So it's spelled J-A-P-A. So it's joppa. And the word J-P-A is actually a Sanskrit word. It's an ancient word that means the device. repetition of a practice. And every day, that's what we're doing. Every day that we're showing up, we're just here to practice doing our best and being our best. So I couldn't think of a better word to represent this technology that we're bringing. And you know that you can trust what it is

that we're recommending because behind the scenes, we have not only incredible talented healers and doctors and nutritionists and health coaches and data scientists and we all. We also have Alexis that's going to be offering scientific oversight of the recommendation engine. So all of the best hearts and minds are here to ensure that the methodology of what is being suggested to people is the best that it could possibly be and will continue to improve it every single day. And, you know, our highest intention and highest objective is just to help give people the tools and the resources that they might not otherwise have even thought of or known of that can help optimize and accelerate their path in life towards their highest self,

which is what more could you ask for, right? I mean, that's what we all want is the best ever. We just, we want to live the best life ever. And I believe that's possible. I absolutely believe that, you know, heaven on earth is possible for anybody that wants it. Amen. And if people want to follow you, I know you post a lot of great content in your stories and on your page. How can they find you on Instagram?

My first and last name, there's an underscore in between. So Cheryl with an S and then last name, Utah. Yeah, you can find me there. You can also go to the Joppa health page. We're not as active on the Joppa health page, but that will probably change soon. Amazing. And also include links to your Instagram and to Joppa's website and Instagram on the show notes so that people can access it and find you. And I just want to thank you so much for sharing your story and your heart with us and with me. and I'm so grateful to know you and so happy to be a part of the team and just beyond excited for what's to come for us. Thank you.

The gratitude is mutual and it just is oozing out of me. I'm so just grateful and honored to have you on this journey with me. I couldn't think of anybody better. Thank you. Thank you. Have a great weekend and we'll chat soon as always. We're always chatting very actively in the DMs. Okay.

I love you so much and thank you everybody for listening. Thank you. Bye. Bye.