Undoctrinate Yourself - #32 - Dr. Stephen Hussey

Episode Date: March 12, 2025

Dr. Stephen Hussey DC is a chiropractor and functional medicine practitioner. He's written three books: The Health Evolution, Understanding the Heart, and Pain Sense. Stephen's website: www.resourceyourhealth.comStephen's instagram: www.instagram.com/drstephenhusseyFollow the podcast on Instagram ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@undoctrinateyourselfpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: www.instagram.com/undoctrinateyourselfpodFollow Dr. Alexis on Instagram ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@dralexisjazmyn⁠⁠: www.instagram.com/dralexisjazmyn

Hello everyone. Welcome back to Undoctrinate yourself. Today I'm sitting down with Dr. Stephen Hussie, who is really a force on Instagram. I've been very familiar with his work for a while. And I'm really excited to talk to him today about a variety of things. But we're definitely going to get into like the quantum and light biology surrounding heart disease, which is something that he's just in an absolute force in. And so I'm really excited to get his perspectives on this, especially given his own personal experiences, which I hope we can also discuss. But for now, I just want to welcome. me on the show. Thanks so much for coming on. Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, it's my, it's my pleasure. I think it's been a long time coming. Maybe we can start with your story, if you're not too sick of telling it at this point. I know I always get asked about my story on podcast too, and I'm like, yes, I'll tell it because it is important because I feel like it really frames up your motivation for studying these things and then really trying to help other people not have to go through what you went through. So if you want to start there, that could be great. For sure.

Yeah, I mean, I guess, you know, it starts from a very young age for me as far as my interest in heart disease and health in general. I had a lot of inflammatory conditions as a kid, everything from, you know, allergies. And I used to break out in hives all over my body. I had earl bowel syndrome, things like that, all these inflammatory, quote unquote, inflammatory type things. And ultimately, we ended up with autoimmune, autoimmune type 1 diabetes. and so my whole childhood I was told that heavily predisposed you to heart disease, you know.

And so my interest was in that, like as I, you know, grew up and got former education and things like that, I always kind of paid attention to the heart and heart disease and the vascular system. And, you know, my parents and I at that early age were kind of relying on Western medicine and to help us manage these conditions, keyword manage them, no explanation of why they were there, why they're happening, just what we can do to manage the symptoms. And so, like, in college, I started experimenting, not in the way people think about experimenting in college, but like just with my health and stuff, you know, and it's just I started to manage or get rid of most of these conditions.

And no doctor had ever told me I could do that. So I was like, that's interesting because my relationship with my pediatric endocrinologist was good in that he was a great guy and, like, really helped me understand what was going on. But I recognize the shortcomings of his advice. So I kind of wanted to like follow in his footsteps and be an MD. And then I was like, well, maybe I don't want to be an MD if they never told me any of these things. So I went to chiropractic school and then got a master's in nutrition and functional medicine. And all those are just pieces of paper that tell me I did some things.

But the real stuff that I've learned about the vascular system came from an independent study, which happened outside of any formal school. setting. And so yeah, you know, and then so I was always like really strict about diet and exercise and tried to live, you know, the healthy lifestyle. And what people think, you know, it takes to achieve health. But then, yeah, and I, you know, got rid of all those conditions aside from type 1 diabetes, it's kind of collateral damage from that inflammation. But yeah, then at 34 years old, I guess three and a half years ago now, I had a heart attack, a pretty massive one. I had a widow maker heart attack, there was a 100% blockage or clot that formed in the left interior

descending artery, which is the widowmaker, you know. And so like only 12% of people who have that heart attack outside of a hospital, like not currently hospitalized, survive. And fortunately, I survived. I got there pretty quickly and they intervened and grateful for Western medicine for that extent, like in an emergency, the best place to be. but that the like so i'm sitting there in the hospital like pretty dejected pretty demoralized you know thinking i'm hypocrite um like what did i go wrong what did i miss all this stuff um and so i was asking them their opinions and it was all you know just the usual cholesterol causes this stuff that was the generic answer i got and i knew that to be untrue um and also very

short-sighted to myopic um way of looking at a very complex biological ecosystem that is the body but the advice they gave me in the hospital just kind of reinvigorated me because it was like the complete wrong advice. It was eat a processed food diet. These foods are okay. You know, it was like things like fig Newton's and animal crackers were okay for me to eat. They were on my list of things that I could eat. You know, restrict your salt and all this stuff.

You wouldn't, like I would develop heart failure, 100% I would develop heart failure if I didn't take medications. and they wanted me, they prescribed 11 different medications while I was in the hospital. And they said I'd be on five the rest of my life, which was never going to be the case with me. And that's not medical advice. That's just what I decided to do. I only took a bloodthender for six months because of the stint in there. But other than that, and I'm not on that now.

I'm on no medications. And my heart is completely recovered. It's 100% now. It's functioning at 100%. No development of heart failure. And I also reversed atherosclerosis in my leg, which developed from the intervention that they did. So they went through the femoral artery in my groin to place the stint. And the angioceal device they used has been shown in the literature to create clots or interrupted blood flow or different things.

And I've had many people reach out to me and say the same thing happened to them. So I developed atheroscosis in my leg. And they decided not to intervene because it wasn't really interfering with anything that I needed to do. do it just I wasn't able to do things I wanted to do like run or hike or snowboard or play soccer things like that. So they didn't intervene but I reversed it myself using light, which we can talk about if you like. But yeah, that's kind of my story. I like as far as like people are probably wondering why the heart attack happened. And no one will probably ever be able to tell me exactly why. But it's like the end result of stroke, heart attack, and even atherosclerosis is clotting.

It's fibroatic clotting tissue is what happens in all those cases. And so we have to ask yourselves why clotting happens. And I think that I got myself into a situation where there was a bunch of things that happened. I think kind of, you know, the stars aligned or misaligned, however you want to say it. And they, and it caused a heart attack where an acute clot formed because I had a coronary artery calcium score, which is a measure of how much calcified plaque there is in arteries six months prior to this heart attack. And it was zero. It was a perfect score, which doesn't measure soft plaque. But when they went and placed the stint and did the angiogram, they found no plaque anywhere except for this giant clot in the LAD. So it was just that that clot that happened.

And so there was a lot of stress leading up to this event. I got some of the most stressful news in my life a day and a half before it happened. I think an aspect of dehydrated. was a thing because I was very dehydrated at the time based on the way I was eating and I wasn't replacing fluid and electrolytes. And I know better now. And then also I think there was an aspect of what's called oxalate dumping. So I'd been on a very low carb carnivorous diet for about two and a half years. And that's usually when we start seeing aggressive dumping of oxalates that have been stored in the body. And when I look back at my testing prior to the heart attack, I had oxalates in my urine.

And that was the first time I've ever noticed that in my life. And I've been testing urine analysis for all my life because of type one diabetic. So never had oxalates. So I think that was a component. There's many different things, I think. And then that stress. And then I unwisely did a very intense workout the morning. I had the heart attack.

So like 30 minutes before I just finished that workout. And as soon as my body calmed down from that, clot formed. And there we are. So crazy. Wow. Wow, wow. And so fitting in a way that like the universe would give you this challenge because I feel like you're somebody who could actually answer it and you were already motivated to be asking questions and like experimenting like you said and trying to figure things out for yourself. Like obviously isn't an experience anybody would want, but in a way it has been a gift to motivate you to understand your body better and then by extension be able to help other people more. And I think it's just funny slash ironic that, you know, the atherosclerosis and the femoral artery happened.

because it seems like that's just always the story with Western medicine where it's like they're solving one issue and creating 10 more. But like you said, like in a pinch, like they will keep you alive. And that is an amazing gift that we do have access to. I would love to get into the light piece. Like you mentioned, you've really been using light to support the cardiovascular system. And I had Dr. Twyman on and we talked a little bit about this. But I'd love to hear your perspective as well and your approach. and like what you talk about with like clients, patients, et cetera.

Yeah, I like the way you put it like these, these opportunities that were presented to me. You know, even they were seeing as negative things and they were kind of a pain like and one could be very life-threatening, like their opportunities. Because like before this, you know, I would talk about cardiovascular disease with interest to me and I found a lot of things that were contrary to what I learned in school, what most physicians or anybody trained in physiology learns in school. And I would talk about them and people would be like,

you're a chiropractor, what do you know? Right? But then as soon as I say I had a heart attack, it's very relative to me. It's like, oh, now I'm allowed to talk about it to an extent, you know. And also, yes, people want to talk to someone knowledgeable in the subject who's also been through it too, who knows what they're going through. And so the amount of people that have reached out to me because of it and want to talk to me from that perspective has been really rewarding. And then, yeah, like, you know, the intervention they did cause dearthosis. That was an opportunity for me to fix it. And I did not taking any medications, doing anything they recommended. So it's just like, that's an end of one experiment. And I'm working on writing that up as a case study and getting

that published. So I hope that that happens soon. By the way, did you go back to your doctors to show them like what you've accomplished? And what did they say? Well, I had to go back to get the testing to prove that it was reversed. And, you know, the, it went from, in a year, I went from 70 to 99% stenosis in that artery to 0 to 50%. And the vascular surgeon, his words were exactly, well, we can't say these things, this is better because we don't see these things get better. And I was just like, well, you just saw it get better. And like the technician who did the exam, she did it and then she left the room and she came back in and redid it.

She was like, we saw some weird things. We're going to do it again. And it was the same. It was still 0 to 50%. And so, yeah, it was just like, you know, the cognitive dissonance there is crazy. Like you just saw it gets better. Why are you not saying, what did you do?

You know, that should be the next step. And then a year after that, the next test showed completely normal. So, and still, no question. I think I even gave him a copy of my book. And I don't know if he read it or not, but I gave it to him. And so, yeah, and then a year after that, another follow-up test was still normal. So I've sustained it. But yeah, so.

Well, we'll talk about just atherosclerosis in general. I'll kind of give people my explanation of why this is a growing thing. Because it's not a, it's not a age old thing. It's very new. It's like the last 80 to 120 years or something like that. We've seen atheroscores. Like the beginning of the 1900s, heart disease was not a thing. It was, you know, heart attacks, like cardiac arrest was a thing that was seen a little bit.

But coronary heart disease, like atheroscosis in the coronary arteries was very rare. almost zero, like almost no cases. There was no, you know, American Heart Association, American College of Cardiology. There was just, it was, cardiology wasn't a thing because it wasn't needed, really. And then, you know, 30s, 40s, we started to see some rise in coronary heart disease. And in the 50s, it really took off. And that's when, you know, it became a problem. People were becoming aware of it because Eisenhower had a heart attack in the Oval Office.

And it was just this thing people were scared of. And, you know, there's a whole story of how cholesterol got blamed by some very poorly done science by Ansel Keys. And there was a lot of money behind that theory, lots of money from pharmaceutical and from food industry that wanted to convince people that cholesterol and saturated fat were bad because they had, you know, recent financial gain because of those ideas. And despite the early literature coming out saying, hey, listen, saturated fat's not bad. Clesterol doesn't cause heart disease. It was just ignored because, you know, there was a big push. for that message. We've kind of been stuck in that.

So I find it ironic that we're having to provide so much evidence that it's not the cause when there was never any evidence in the beginning that it was, you know. It's just funny. But from my perspective, and there's people today that are showing very clearly that what your lipids are, no matter how you slice it up, what subfractions or whatever you're looking at, it's not really telling us risk of heart disease, not assessing it very well. And I think that they're still barking up the wrong. tree like trying to over analyze cholesterol you know Einstein says that doing the same

thing over and over again is insanity and that's what they're doing they're just trying to analyze it just measure it this way or that way or just measure it this to it's going to it's going to it's going to because all cholesterol tells us is what you're metabolizing at the time are you metabolizing more glucose and LDL and fat delivery goes down or you metabolizing more fats and has to get packaged in LDL and that goes up you know that's generally how how it happens. And you can get some indication of like, is there inflammation or oxidative stress because you can get damaged particles. And the things that are damaging the particles are also

damaging the lining of the artery causing atheroscrosis, but it's not the damaged particles that are driving things. So it can tell us some things like that. But in reality, what's really happened, I think, is our light environment has changed. And so when you look at, like I said, strokes, heart attacks, atherosclerosis, it's clotting. It's fibroids, like the same thing that if you cut your skin and your body's got to stop the bleeding, it forms clotting tissue, forms a scab, it stops the bleeding. And the same exact thing to an extent happens in the lining of the artery. Lining the artery gets damaged for whatever reason and either it's so much damage that it can't repair itself in a timely fashion or the

repair mechanisms are broken down like the signaling for growth and repair. has literally, you know, been interfered with from poor metabolic health or circadian rhythm stuff. And then the body can't repair it. The body has to do something or else that artery is going to rupture. Then we're internally bleeding. And that's a problem. So it deposits fibroatic clotting tissue plaque. That's what plaque is made up. If you analyze plaque, there's a few studies that have done that. And they see that it's 87% fibotic clotting tissue. And so there's sometimes just a little cholesterol present, but it's really no more than just what got caught up

in the clotting tissue when it happened, right? And cholesterol is also used in the initial process of like repairing the damage, so that gets stuck in there. And LP.A is a molecule that is a lipoprotein that gets caught in there because it goes in to prevent the breakdown of clotting tissue.

So if the body really wants it there, you know, use LP little A. And so there's some cholesterol present, but most of it's clotting tissue. So if we look at like what, you know, most medical students or anybody learning physiology learns about clotting, they learn about Virchow's triad, which is Rudolph Virchow back in, way back in 1856, you know, found that the things that cause clotting in the blood are damaged to the line of the artery or stagnant or interrupted blood flow or when elements

of blood are too sticky. They're coagulating too much. We have high viscosity, so to speak. those things predispose us to clotting. And so that's what happens. And if you look at like markers for those things, like endothelial damage or blood flow markers like nitric oxide and flow mediated dilatation and things like that,

they're all very big risk factors for atherosclerosis or ESR like erythotite sedimentation rate, like if that's pumping together too much, all those are very big risk factors for all this clotting in atherosclerosis. Way better risk factors than cholesterol. as far as like what the literature shows. And so the thing that prevents that stuff is structured water.

So we look at water, you know, it's solid liquid gas, but there's also this fourth phase of water you can get into or you can get water can get into. And it's more like a gel. More like jello or the consistency of raw egg white is kind of this gelatinous. And most of the water in our body is in this state, which is why I feel like a gel. like if I poke myself, it just bounces right back like a gel. But there's liquid water in the body too in the blood, cerebral spinal fluid, extracellular fluid, lymphatic fluid, all those types of things.

But they're next to places where water can, that water can structure itself into the structured water. So become more like a gel. And they've shown this, you know, Dr. Gerald Pollock has shown this in his lab at University of Washington that this gel-like water does form on the lining of blood vessels. and lots of all biological surfaces. But when it does that, like structured water has got a lot of different names because it's got these different properties

and different scientists have discovered it at different times and there was no like consensus on what it was. So it was called these different things. But it's also called exclusion zone water. And the reason that it's called exclusion zone water is because it keeps things away from it. Like very almost nothing can penetrate it aside from very small hydrated ions of minerals.

And so when it gets next to the lining of the artery, if not they can penetrate it, then it forms this protective layer on top of the glycolalics, on top of the endothelia. And so it also provides almost like a frictionless barrier that things can slide past it with no harm to them. Just like, have you ever like grab some ice out of the freezer and it sticks to you at first? And then as it starts to melt, the structured water forms on your finger and on the ice and then it slips right off. Right. you can't hold on to it now. And that's what structured water does in, because structured water's forming on there.

That's what it does in the artery. And so that's Virchial stride number one to protect the lining of the artery. And so that's what structured water does. And then the second part of Virchia stride is keep blood moving. And so they've actually shown that this is indeed how blood flows, the main way of blood flows. The heart does do a small amount of pumping, but the main way the blood flows is through structured water

because the way structured water forms, it becomes very electronegative. It's that way because the oxygens are bigger molecules, and so they're very electronegative, and then one of the hydrogens is cleaved off. And so it's not a polar molecule anymore, so it's very electronegative. But also, because of the way structured water forms, and it kind of forms this lattice-like connected structure, electrons can move through it now, which also makes it very negatively charged. And then the hydrogens are cleaved off in the space next to the structure of water, and that creates a positive next to a negative, which is the battery. that's why we have positive and negative ends on the battery. And they've shown you can plug in electrodes to both the positive and negative side and power a light bulb.

So it creates energy. And in the case of a tube, it does the work of the energy does the work of moving fluid. And they've done this. They've shown that it happens in the vascular system of a chick embryo. So pretty fascinating. So that's virtual stride number two is keep blood moving. Would the Zeta potential have to do with that as well? Yes.

And that's the next part. is Zeta potential is that the elements of blood are also biological surfaces. And so structure water forms on them too. That gives them an electronegative charge. So that negative charge does two things. One is that light charges don't like each other. So if two red blood cells are negatively charged, they're not going to clump together. They're going to repel each other.

So that keeps things from collagulating. Lipoproteins, anything in blood is going to have that zeta potential if we have healthy structured water in there. and also because of the way structured water forms, it makes the plasma positively charged because the hydrogens are in there. And so that electric charge, that negative charge of the red blood cell is attracted to the positive charge. So if that structured water is moving the plasma through the blood, it's dragging the attracted negative charge to the positive charge, dragging it with it.

And so that's keeping things all moving. And like train cars hook together, right? And that's creating momentum, which keeps things moving in that direction. So that's, but it also prevents things from coagulating, which is virtual astride number three. So all those things are done by structured water. And so the reason that that makes sense is because the main way you get water, you energize water so that it structures itself is infrared light, far infrared light. And so if you look at, especially around the 40s and 50s, when heart disease started to become a thing, like was growing exponentially. what do we do?

Well, fluorescent lights were invented and we started moving more indoors and doing a lot more things indoors because of this fluorescent lighting. And before then it was incandescent and it was fire and then it was just sun. It was the only thing and those are all very high in infrared light.

And then we got fluorescent lighting, very low in infrared light, and then LEDs invented in the late 70s became more widespread use in the late 90s, early 2000s. and then incandescent became legal in some space recently. Like this is what's happened. We're living more and there's away from this thing that charges the structured water

and protects our arteries that prevents clotting from happening. So you can get this chronic low-grade inflammation and clotting risk that results in atherosclerosis over time or you can get into a situation like I did where it can acutely happen. And if it's big enough, it'll block a whole artery or a whole place in your leg or something like that. And so we've not only removed ourselves from that source of infrared, which the sun is always going to be best, we've also added things that insult the lining of the artery. We've added toxin exposures.

We've added inflammatory diets of processed foods. And so we've added like poor gut and dental health, which leads to endotoxemia that can flare up the or damage the lining of the artery. So and then the last part of it is that we've also disrupted circadian rhythm. and created poor metabolic health, so poor insulin signaling. And those are the things that trigger for repair of the artery. So we've removed the protection, added the insult,

and minimized repair. So of course we're going to have an epidemic of vascular disease. The body is trying so hard to protect the artery by developing clotting tissue so that it doesn't rupture. That's the explanation right there. And then, you know, like we talked about, I reversed it in my leg,

not taking any medication, no blood thinners, no cholesterol medication, anything like that. The only thing that I changed, because my diet stayed the same. It was low carb and based. My LDL, very high according to them, you know, quote unquote high, according to them. And throughout this entire process. And all I did was I bought an infrared sauna. I started using it four to six times a week for about 20 minutes each time. I got more sunlight than I've ever gotten in my life, started getting outside.

I did a lot of grounding while I was doing that and optimized my circadian rhythm. Like I started, those are the things that I had not been doing before that I initiated. And I kind of knew about them before, but I started actually doing them. And then, yeah, like I said, within two years, my artery was completely normal. And I kind of suspect that if I stopped doing those things, it would go back, it would come back, because the device is still there. But I'm just optimizing flow dynamics through that area so that things aren't stopping and coagulating and causing damage

to the lining of the artery. So that's my take on atherosclerosis, and I have kind of an end-of-one experiment to prove that it works. I think it's a very smart take. And for people who are listening and or watching, so I'm sitting inside because my internet was just not working outside. I usually sit outside for podcasts, but I have my windows open. And I've got a nearer light bulb on.

And so that's Scott Zimmerman's product. Love him and the product. He was on my podcast a few episodes ago. Actually, I visited his like a state. It's absolutely gorgeous here in New Jersey. But the near light bulbs, he basically added back in like this three to one ratio of like visible to near infrared. And it basically goes all the way out to, I mean, I think 3,100 nanometers is the sweet spot for the easy water formation. But I think it goes out even beyond that, which is really awesome.

So if you're going to use light bulbs inside, if you can't get incandescent, I think he said he's going to be running into issues in 2028 when the ban, like the national ban is supposed to like cut off supply. But hopefully we can build some awareness around this space before then because we're really going to run into issues. And I had a post like a few weeks ago saying something like energy efficiency and technology is creating an energy crisis in the human body because we're not building this easy exclusion zone coherent domain water that's required as a battery that actually power. metabolism, but also plays this very indispensable role within the vascular system to actually support health and avoid disease. So I think that's huge. I'm curious, how did you come across the story? Did you find Jack's work? No. I didn't, I didn't, I wasn't told about him. And I've actually never read one of his blogs. What? If he hears this, he may not like, but I've actually never have. And, and yeah, like I, I don't know. I guess I just kind of always knew it. I knew

Dr. Pollock's work. And so I knew that infrared was the most building to structured water. How'd you come across Pollock? Dr. Thomas Cowan. No relation, I'm assuming. No relation. Yeah, he, because I've known about him for a long time. I've known about Western Price Foundation for a long time, which he was a founding member of. And so, but again, it was all focused on food for me, like, because Western Price is very focused on food. And they do a lot of other things, too. But it's, it's that. So I would always do food and exercise and stuff.

But yeah, it was just the infrared light portion. And I never really connected it to like, oh, well, the sun is high in infrared all the time. The blue light is what changes. And like, that's our source of infrared. I just started, I knew that the research on sauna was great for like things like, heart failure because of the mechanisms that it created blood flow and took pressure off the heart. It's actually phenomenal for heart failure, actually. So I was just like, you know what, this has got to be good for arteries.

I'm just going to start doing it. So I did. And then kind of slowly got to the point where I was just like, well, the sun's the original source. I'm going to do that too. That makes the most sense. Who knows what we don't know about why that's so beneficial, you know, because it's the natural way of doing it. And then the grounding, I knew that.

grounding has been shown to increase data potential. So I was like, that's got to be good, not really knowing if it would work or not, but just trying to heal. And originally it was like, how do I heal my heart? That was the thing, because I just had the heart attack, and they're all scaring me about heart failure. And I'm just like, well, I know the research on heart failure in infrared sauna. So I'm going to do that. And then later learned more about the atherosclerosis and lining of the artery and then heal it. And I was just, it's like, man, that's pretty powerful. So, and the point is, like,

her people, like, thinking about cholesterol and all worried about that. It's just like, you realize that I reversed atheroscosis in my body with cholesterol levels or LDL levels astronomically higher than they think that it should be, right? Like, I'm talking like three, four, five hundred when it should, they say it should be, LDL should be 100 or lower. So it really doesn't play a role. And it may be part of the process once the damage happens, but it's a small part of the process. It's not the causative part of the process.

But it just shows you the power of light, you know, that we can do that in that context, despite that or despite any of the things that I couldn't avoid, like the stress I couldn't avoid, the toxin exposure you just can't avoid any of that stuff. Like even in the context of that, I still reversed it completely, 100%. Yeah, and it should make a ton of sense if we just even think about the environment, just like 150 years ago. If we're living primarily outdoors and spending a lot of time outside, we're literally getting an abundance of red and infrared light all day long whenever the sun is up,

from sun up to sundown. And even if you're in shade, the near infrared light gets reflected off of green plants. So you're still receiving a bunch, even if you're not in direct sunlight. And then you compare that to living an indoor lifestyle where we've replaced all the lights like the incandescent lights with the LED and fluorescent bulb. So that completely removes the infrared light from that source. And then we also have these energy efficient windows that are coded to block infrared light from coming in because it doesn't want to drive up your energy bills. And so we're literally blocking this essential nutrient at every turn.

And now most people are literally going from like house to car to office building or workspace back to car, back to home. And they're blocking infrared light at every turn there and UV light as well. But it's kind of another part of the story. But it just becomes really clear, especially when you learn about near infrared biology and how these waves can penetrate deep into your body. body. And if you're standing outside, you're like a cylinder outside. You're basically getting full penetration all the way through your body. And Scott Zimmerman has done some modeling on this. So you're stimulating not only the easy water production, but also all of the mitochondria throughout your body that can directly be stimulated by these wavelengths of light, like the cytochrome Coxidase,

these enzymes within the mitochondrial electron transport chain that basically facilitates determed depleted metabolic water production and energy production. And so we're missing this this such vital essential nutrient and I think it really needs to be thought of in that way because when we think about it that way, people are so conditioned to think about food that it becomes like, okay, if I think about light as essential nutrients, which wavelengths am I deficient in and which wavelengths am I overdosing? And almost everybody is basically overdosing on blue and deficient in UV and infrared. Yeah, exactly. And you know, UV is important part of it too because there's studies that show that if you get UV exposure, you increase heifer.

production in the skin. And what do they inject in someone who had excess clotting from a heart attack? Hepron sulfate. You know, so it's just another thing that prevents this clotting, because clotting is supposed to happen sometimes in the body. It needs to happen if we get injured or something. But pathologically, if it's happening too much, it's causing issues, especially in the vascular system. But UV is very important part of that as well as far as stopping that from happening. But yeah, we're incredibly deficient in infrared light. And so because of our excessive blue light environments. And so, you know, like none of these wavelengths or colors of light are bad or good. It's just that they're out of balance, you know, because blue light has been shown to also help

with arterial health. But it's always, the researchers always state that it's at real world doses, which means balance by other light and only at certain times a day because blue light is what fluctuates during the time of day. It's highest at solar noon and its lowest, you know, at sunrise and sunset. And I think that if we had decided that, red light or infrared was the most energy efficient. When you use that all the time, I think that it would have been bad for us. It would have been too much, you know.

But now that we're so deficient in it, it's seen as a therapy when we have infrared sauna and red light panels. It's like this therapy. But in reality, we're just supposed to be in the sun. That's the correct forms of things. And that's what it shows too. Like if you look at like infrared therapies,

red light therapies, laser therapies, things like that. There's like a bell curve. You know, it's like there's a threshold of which is too much becomes detrimental because we're supposed to have the right amounts. And the reason it's the therapy is because we're so deficient in it. So really,

the sun is best. So I always prioritize that. And then in cases like where I was trying to reverse a disease process that already happened, using the infrared sauna, which is the sauna I use is the one that I know of that it's the highest in far infrared, which is the most building the structured water. But even then, it was like, it was, you know, often as far as like four to six times a week,

but it was only 20 minutes at a time. and I tried to use it like in the morning and evenings when it's most consistent with how much infrared I'd be getting from the sun or more infrared, less blue, that kind of thing. So like, again, like processed lights bad for us, just like processed foods bad for us, the more consistent you can get with, you know, natural sunlight, the better. One other things just occurred to me on the UV front is that when we're building melanin, so when UV light is stimulating our brain via our eyes and our skin, stimulating the production of new melanin.

and melanin, we now know is this really important sink for free radicals. So if there is an inflammatory state in the body, not only can it help to sequester that and help to maintain some level of homeostasis or like reduce the reactivity of the environment, but also melanin can be pulled from your surface internally to deal with reactive burdens actually deepen your body as well. So I think that's a really interesting space that needs to be explored more. And I would love to do these studies in my future light lab if it even when it happens. but I think it's going to be really powerful when we understand that because, you know,

then we will realize that UV light in particular UVB light, the most demonized is like the most important of, I mean, not the most important of the entire light spectrum, but for the melanin story, absolutely. Yeah. And I, like in my pain book that I just wrote, I talk about melanin a lot because melanin is internal as well. It's in the nervous system, which for a chiropractor, that's very interesting because we always talk about the nervous system.

And melanin is not just the light that it absorbs, and it's not just this antioxidant capacity. It can absorb sound, vibration, all kinds of stuff, and use that to dissociate water and create literally the things that your mitochondria need to function. It creates those things. And so it's huge, you know, and there's reasons that it's not just on the skin, it's everywhere.

So fascinating little molecule, but it makes sense because it's literally everywhere in all living things, trees, everything. So, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's really cool. Do you want to talk a little bit more about your pain book? Like, what was the impetus to write that and maybe give us some of the highlights from it? Yeah, so, I mean, like as a chiropractor, I mean, that's what I deal with clinically is pain.

And then on a personal level and in my online health consulting, I usually do more metabolic, circadian heart disease type stuff. I coach people on those types of things. But yeah, so like I was at this conference in Orlando is like the largest chiropractic conference. in the world, I think. And I was listening to this guy talk about the opioid crisis. And he was a chiropractor and he was like, you know, advisor for the White House on the opioid crisis or something. And he was saying the statistics that was just like making me realize,

okay, how bad this is. Like I'd read doapsic and that's, it's kind of close to home because that's the area where I live. I live in Southwest Virginia where that opioid epidemic started from Purdue Pharma. and Beth Macy, the author of Dopesick, lives here in Roanoke, which is where I live. So I was aware of all that stuff. And then he was saying the statistics.

And I was like, man, this is an issue, a much bigger issue. And so I started looking into it. And I realized that based on all the previous knowledge that I had and this new stuff I was learning about pain and opioids that I had enough material to write a book, another one, which I've gotten decent at, I guess. This is my third one. but they come together more quickly now. But yeah, so when I look into it, there's these three components of pain, right?

There's a sensory component to pain, which is basically, again, you cut your skin or you have an injury to your skin, and the sensory cells there, send a message nervous system to the brain. The brain says, oh, there's a problem, and the brain sends a pain signal back to that spot. So the brain is what's creating the pain signal. That's sensory. And any sense can be overwhelmed. You can have a noise that's too loud or anything like that, and that could be painful. But the brain is what creates it.

And that's the level which opioids work. They work at the sensory pain level. They try and shut down a sensory pain signal. But because the next component is emotional, there's an emotional component to pain, which is very tied to the centers in the brain that are sensory. And so we attach this emotional connection to pain, which is like, it teaches us to avoid it in the future. We have a negative response, usually like a sad response or I'm hurt.

It's an emotion. It's like a thing we can physically describe, but also emotionally describe that we're hurt. And so I think we've all had the experience where someone we may love dearly accidentally hurt us, like stepped on our toe or something like that. And despite us knowing it's an accident and loving that person, we're still mad at them. because there's this emotional connection to pain that teaches us to avoid it in the future. It's a very important evolutionary mechanism. And then the third component of pain is a cognitive component to pain,

which is, well, the emotional aspect of pain exists in all vertebrates, all animals with a spine. But this cognitive one is mostly specific to humans. You know, like chimps probably and other primates probably have some component of this, but ours is very developed, this cognitive aspect of pain because we have such a large prefrontal cortex, higher cognition. This allows us to wonder about the pain or worry about it. And so that's why we can contemplate the meaning of life and things like that.

But that worry about it is a huge issue. So you can get a sensory pain signal. Like say you've got something in bad. balance and the muscles you have your knee, causing your knee to track poorly, creating friction, and that's a sensory pain signal that's being created because of that imbalance in your muscles and your knee wearing on the cartilage, creating a chemical change in that spot that's telling your sensory signal, sending it to your brain, your brain creating the pain signal. You can have chronic pain that way. And then you emotionally don't like that because it hurts you,

it keeps you from doing what you're supposed to do, but you don't know how to avoid it. the cognitive aspect of pain is very powerful because there's this guy named Henry Beecher, who's an anesthesiologist back in the 40s during World War II. He was on the front lines, and he was, soldiers were coming off the front lines with these very uncontrolled gruesome injuries. And he was just asking them, like, how much pain are you in and how much medication do you want as an anesthesiologist? He was trying to give them morphine and things like that.

And so he just documented. he was what they were saying and then later after the war he's back in harvard um which is where he taught and worked and he was doing the same thing with people coming out of surgeries much more controlled injuries you know and what he found was that the people coming out of surgery reported way more pain and they requested way more medication than these people coming off the front line with way worse injuries that they may or may or not lose a leg or something like that um and when he but he was always asking them why they felt out this way. And what he found was that the people coming out of surgery were way more worried

about the outcome. How did the surgery go? How's this going to affect my life? All this kind of stuff. Whereas the people coming off the front line were like, I'm alive and I'm leaving war. And I may not have to go back depending on how gruesome my injury is and how much it takes me out. So they saw it as a positive thing. Their cognition was literally turning off the emotion, which was turning off the sensory pain signals. But that's also relevant to our chronic pain epidemic because if someone gets into a state where their cognition is so hampered, which is why chronic pain is so associated with mental illness, then that cognitive state can literally turn on the emotional and then the sensory aspects of pain and create pain

with no physical damage to your body whatsoever. And that's what we're dealing with. And the problem there is that people come in saying, I have pain, and that's the case. And an opioid is given, but an opioid works at the sensory level, not at the cognitive level. And the only way an opioid is strong enough to affect the cognitive. The only way it can work is if it's strong enough to affect the cognition and literally shut you down mentally. Like, inebriates you. And like, I'll never forget. Like, I just started writing the book and this guy came into my office and he was like,

hey, I'm looking for different options for pain. I was very close to being addicted to opioids. I was like, and he's like, I decided not to be. And I decided to quit them. cold turkey, my family, all my family's addicted to opioids. And he was like, they don't work. They just, they just, they just, they just mess you up enough so you can't think about the pain.

And I was like, you're exactly right. And he didn't need to know the science like I knew it. He just knew that's what he was seeing. And so I was like, there's got to be a better solution. And so I found, you know, the solution to pain is low body charge or increasing your body charge. The solution is increasing body charge. Because ultimately, like that issue with the.

knee, you know, where your knee is tracking wrong and it's creating this, this, this chemical change, this friction with a chemical change is sending a pain signal. A, you want to rebalance the muscles in the leg, but B, we're more likely to get that pain if we have low body charge because that chemical signal is basically pH, you know, so we need to increase the more alkalinity of that tissue, so it stops sending the pain signal. So it could be that. But an emotional signal or emotional context of that is emotional health and being able to respond to something that's harmful and painful and return to homeostasis after that rather than engaging the cognitive centers too much. So there's studies that show that if you get a physical or emotional trauma, the amount of

communication between the emotional and cognitive centers of your brain dictate whether or not that pain will become chronic once the injury is healed. So again, we're training the brain to be a certain way. So it could be just the sensory, and that's more about charge. It could be just the cognitive, which could be depression leading to chronic pain, or it could be a combination of both happening at the same time. But the answer, and someone who's got longstanding chronic pain is we've got to rewire the brain. And if you look at what rewires the brain, it's nature.

Nature rewires the brain. And there's many different aspects of nature that do that, whether it's sound, whether it's light, whether it's contact with the earth, whether it's. it's other living things and positive social relationships and all those different things they rewire the brain. But then there's also more therapeutic versions of those things that people have invented, whether it's lasers or sound therapies or just different, you know, modern day things. But that's kind of pain in the nutshell from my perspective.

That's beautiful. And I have so many thoughts. The first thing that came to mind when you mentioned the story about or the, I don't know if it was exactly a story, but anyway, if somebody's experience, it was a doctor that was comparing like the men coming off the battlefield versus the people coming out of the hospital. The one thing I was thinking about there is like, well, the people on the battlefield were like outside, right? And like the people in the hospital getting the surgery were coming from an operating room. And we know that like natural light, in particular like the UV frequencies can stimulate the production of pro opium melanocort and or palm C, which is, you know, the same pro hormone that ends up, ends up stimulating melanin production, but also gets cleaved into the alpha, beta and gamma endorphins, which are these natural opioids that like,

And I mean, we're all essentially supposed to be high all the time because if we're outside, like, we're getting our fix and that was what we evolved to receive. But I think when people are indoors constantly not getting that like natural dopamine elevation from these endorphins from being outside in natural light, that we're constantly just looking for our next quick fix, whether it's drugs, alcohol, whether it's social media or TV addiction or whatever the addiction is. I feel like it's just you're operating at such a low baseline dopamine level that you're constantly looking for something to get you up to where you need to be. But then it like crashes and then you constantly are seeking some stimulus to get you there, not realizing that we're supposed to be kind of cruising at altitude dopamine wise if we're just spending more time outside. So I think that's super interesting. And I think a lot of people don't think about that whatsoever. But I also can attest to like just from my clients and myself and from what I hear from other people is that just spending more time outside, like they feel less stress. They feel like they have a higher mood.

And that also all makes sense based on like the cascades of the endorphins, which are not only like relieving pain and anxiety depression, but also modulating the immune system and helping to facilitate learning memory and cognition. And then that also links in with like the modern environment where we're being overdosed with blue light, which activates a. sympathetic nervous system, which decreases neuroplasticity, which is the exact opposite of what we want to do. If we're trying to get out of pain, like you said, you need to retrain the brain. In order to do that, we have to have neuroplasticity. Yeah, exactly. And yeah, I talk about some of those things books, Alpha MSA and Bid endorphin and like how the light environment, not just the exposure to light, but also the circadian rhythm is very important in stimulating those things. And so like if you're thinking about it, like from that

perspective, and you think about, again, that knee example, if I've got this imbalance in the knee, it's much more likely to start causing pain if my pain sensitivity is decreased or increased, sorry. And so I'm just more likely to have that. And then if I start regulating those things, that imbalance may be there. We want to get rid of that imbalance and the muscles in the leg. But we're also going to be able to handle it more if we regulate those things, which is just fascinating.

And so it just makes it like you start to understand when you look at our modern day environments, why people are so predisposed to pain. because we're in these environments that are just increasing our bodies, I guess, sensitivity to pain and all that stuff. So, yeah, it's quite interesting. And I went down kind of rabbit holes into like fascia and communication and coherence and how all those things are what's leading to like the mental health crisis and how that's, you know, literally pain is coming from the other way. It's going cognitive, emotional, sensory, emotional, cognitive. And yeah, it just, it kind of blew me away at how, like, simple it was. It's just like, all right, it's all goes back to the same thing.

It's the environment. Just like the same, like conclusions I came about heart disease. It's the environment. It's go back to the original environment of humans and our dissociation from it is what is causing the issue. So, yeah, and like, you know, that environment is what makes us resilient to the things that are going to happen in life no matter what we do is being in that environment. So we have to try and recreate that. And so what, speaking of that, like you mentioned like addiction and like looking for these dopamine surges and those types of things.

Like we have to ask ourselves, what is addiction? And so this was kind of a realization that I came to in researching this book was that, you know, because like an opioid or these substances that we become addicted to, like what makes them addictive? It's not that they're like these aggressive things that go in there and just, change the brain, the substance themselves is addictive. The reason they're addictive is because they provide a much stronger escape from the things that you don't like about your life. So if you look at the people who are more likely to be addicted to opioids, it's the people that are less happy

with their life. And they experience this thing that inebriates them and gives them this complete relief from any worry, cognitive worry about that thing. And that's very hard to recreate with anything else in your life. And so the only way to get that again is to use again. And then you use again, right? And if your life doesn't improve and become something that you're happy about, like it has to be so powerfully happy that it doesn't compete with that substance anymore, right? And so all the things about our life, you know, our superficial relationships or toxic relationships or lack of sunlight, circadian rhythm imbalance, you know, inflammatory process. foods, all these things are making us struggle through life, that when we experience this thing,

which alcohol is the same way, you know, it provides this relief from that struggle. And the more and more relief it gets us, the more stronger the relief, the more addictive we are, you know, to that, to that thing. So, and then that's, then that wires your brain a certain way. And then it's very hard to come back from that. But we can. There's an amazing book by, I think he's a, neurologist or neurosurgeon, Norman Deoge, talking about the brain that changes itself and all

these ways that people have done miraculous changes of their brain and reversed a lot of these disease process. So it is possible. We just have to get our bodies in the right environment. There's no medication that's going to do it. There's no one simple procedure, but there are environments we can put ourselves in that significantly increase our ability to recover from those things. Absolutely. I had Ryan Walker on early on in my podcast who's like he owns the steak and the egg, which is like a farm to table restaurant up here. And he used to be a heroin addict. And he talked about basically that process of him creating a life that allowed him to not want to escape it anymore. And it was really rooted in just getting outside more and actually like developing a relationship with his body and like lifting weights and lifting weights outside and, you know, just working on the land and growing food and just. basically like, you know, doing all the basic things to come back to like a more primal way of living were really like the solution in his case. I'm also thinking about the melanin story and maybe as a chiropractor, this will resonate with you. But I have some experiments

that I really want to do. A good friend of mine is like a PRI provider. Are you familiar with PRI at all? It's like Postural Restoration Institute. He's at the Biomechanist on Instagram. I can connect you guys. He's absolutely brilliant. I think you guys will get on really well. But he basically does these assessments and he completely changed my life. I had chronic knee pain. I thought it was from being obese, but it turns out like my posture was just kind of messed up. I was stuck in this extension pattern with like anterior pelvic tilt and hyper-extended knees, flat feet, flared ribs, like all the things, overactive neck. And you assess me and basically I basically prescribed specific techniques in order to correct those imbalances. That was years ago before I even knew about the light story.

But now I've really been thinking like when it comes to melanin, we know the substantia nigra, which is full of neuromelence black, that's why it's called that, is what is broken down in Parkinson's disease. And in Parkinson's, we see this tremor because essentially every time you successfully complete a movement, your brain gives you a dopamine reward as a gift or like a, just like as a reward for completing that micro, like that micro task that you set for yourself. And in Parkinson's, that tremor is resulting from essentially like this dopamine symmetry across the brain. So we're not actually getting movement of dopamine that's actually triggering, you know, the successful ability to move. And I'm thinking a lot about melon as it relates to dopamine, not only in the context of mental

health, but also in the context of physical movement as well, because we know it's so important in that context. And so I'm really curious to see if correcting somebody's light environment and getting them outside more will naturally correct postural imbalances and things like that. And of course, it's also working on the fascia as well. And I don't know if you, did you dive into like Becker's work at all with like the fashion and bioelectricity. And yes, I feel like all these things are connected and a lot of things could begin to correct themselves by simply correcting the environment. Do you have thoughts on that? Yeah, for sure. And I think that when we talk about environment, we're talking, I'm talking more about like external and internal environment. Oh yeah.

So like coherence is measured like through the, by the heart because it's giant electromagnetic field. But that's measuring internal coherence, which basically means like how well, All the cells are synced up and communicating to do what's best for the system as a whole. But it's also measuring our external environment, you know, our light, which involves electromagnetic fields, wireless signals and things like that. And electromagnetic fields are other humans? Are they toxic? Are they loving? That kind of thing.

The heart is a sensory organ. And so when I got down to like coherence in the body, we talk about motion, which is, you know, what chiropractors do. People think chiropractors are aligning things. When that's something we're doing, we're creating motion and joints that don't move. Because when joints don't move, A, that can create this, you know, sensory pain signal because there's friction, there's a pair of motion in a joint or something like that. But also motion is creating piezoelectricity through fascia, hydrated, you know, structured water, hydrated fascia. And that electricity is communicated throughout the entire body through the fascia. And it goes all the way down to the level of the DNA.

And so that's one way the cells communicate and create coherence. So if we have scar tissue, which for chiropractors, it's more relevant around the spinal cord and the spine itself, the scar tissue that interferes with that communication, we're getting incoherence, right? Because the body can't communicate at an internal level. But also, and I looked into this, not thinking I would find anything, but I was just fascinated when I found that people have looked at this. I was like, I wonder if like an adjustment or, you know, manual therapies of some sort or this massage or cupping or ralphing or whatever you want to do, acupuncture or all this stuff. I wonder if like people have looked at the like light and sound and things that it's emitted and like a chiropractic adjustment or manual therapy of some sort, it creates light.

Light is emitted, like infrared light, more infrared light than usually is being remitted is emitted when like I adjust someone's spine. And there's obviously a sound. people know about the sound of a chiropractic adjustment. There's also an electromagnetic field that's generated. And it's really interesting too. I have a friend here in Virginia, another chiropractor, and he's kind of like a chiropractic historian.

And like my school, I didn't really get any chiropractic philosophy or history. In other schools, they teach it very heavily. I didn't really. So he's telling me about this stuff. And he's like, you know, like the founders of chiropractic, which manipulation was present well before the foundation of chiropractic. but the formal, you know, I guess founding of chiropractic was the Palmer's. And they talked about being magnetic manipulators.

And they weren't talking, they weren't using magnets. You know, they were talking about electromagnetic energy. Wow. And I was like, that's really interesting based on the stuff that I found, you know, as far as like how manipulation of tissue, whether it's the spine or soft tissues or whatever, is admitting all these things. And then if you consider that melanin is so concentrated internally in the body, if I'm creating that stuff inside the body, melanin is using that energy to create

dissociated water, right? So like your hydrogen, oxygen, and electrons in the process. And so we see it all the time as chiropractic. We talk about it a lot. Like we'll have patients come in that are like disgruntled and uncooperative. And, you know, sometimes it's because of pain. Sometimes it's just their personality. And then we'll just start treating them.

You know, they do decide to do care and we start treating them. And the more often we see them, we start to see them change. You know, they become almost the best patient we have. You know, and now they come regularly and it's just like we're creating this coherence or in one way creating this coherence. I'm trying to get chiropractors also say, okay, now you've done that. Let's talk to them about circadian rhythm. Let's talk to them about their diet.

I was affecting to keep them going that path, you know. But, yeah, it's really fascinating when you look at body work. And when you look at how body work is necessary for changing the brain. Because you can take the example of like people with phantom limb pain, like they've had an amputation, and they're still feeling pain in that leg that's been amputated. And in order to fix that, you've got to trick the body into thinking that it's there. So there's this guy that did this work with mirrors. And he would like, yeah, he like set up the mirrors in a ways that the person that made it look like their limb was there.

And they worked on the limb that was there, but it looked like they were working on this. limb and so the brain is getting that signal and it changed the wiring of the brain eventually and they stopped having phantom limb pain which is just it shows how necessary the body is to rewire the brain and the body work is and how necessary body work is not just for breaking up a fascia and getting communication and coherence but also rewire in the brain so yeah i think um it's almost impossible to separate the body and the brain i think they're all just i mean we use semantics, of course, to distinguish between different parts of the body, but I think it's really like one unit, and it's, they're all, all the parts of the body are communicating with

each other in ways that we're, like, we can't even begin to fathom, like, and it's happening at the speed of light, essentially, because that light is literally being transferred via the fascial network from your toes all the way to the top of your head. And it seems like a lot of times energy or emotion can get stuck in different parts of the body. And I've personally had not for myself, but in other people and friends and clients who have had manual therapy done and had like these cathartic experiences during it from just stimulating and kind of opening up or working on specific parts of the body that had some form of tension or adhesions or something like this occurring that when that was released, it was just like a wave of emotion came out of

them. Yeah, we know that traumas, whether physical or emotional, can get stored in tissues and I think that waters, the structured water is the main thing that does that. Because with Emoto's work, we know that you know, when you imprint an emotion on water, it affects its ability to do things. In his work, he was looking at formation of ice, which is eerily similar to the formation of structured water. It's just slightly different. So it can affect that, but also scar tissue, things like that. Scar tissue is so tightly packed together that it doesn't form structured water on it well.

So, you know, scar tissue can form from emotional or physical trauma. and that interferes with that communication because the hydration of the collagen is what inhibits, or not inhibits, but it's what allows it to communicate that information through it. It's like, it's like myelin on the nervous system. The structure of water allows for that faster communication. But yeah, like, you know, I look at the nervous system, you know, because with chiropractic, we think, oh, we're always focusing on the nervous system. We're taking pressure off nerves, and that's restoring communication.

I think it's more fascia. I think we're more affecting faster, restoring communication, the heart's picking that up. Because the nervous system, I think, is just, it's like the postal service. You know, its job is not to create the signal or the information. Its job is to receive it, get the instructions, and send it where it needs to go.

And so the body is what's receiving the information. And so it's really important that our body is receiving the right information so that our nervous system reacts accordingly and sends the right signals to the body. And some chiropractors don't like that. They want it to be focused around the nervous. system, but I'm just like, no, it's way more than that. And the thing, the reason I got led into that direction is because I studied the heart so much and the heart is what's measuring coherence.

And so that kind of brought me right back to chiropractic, which is interesting and bodywork in general and that kind of stuff, but also all these solutions and explanations of why we have pain, heart disease, everything. Yeah, the Heart Math Institute for people who are listening is great resource for all the like compiled research on, do you have any other resources that you'd like to share? Yeah, I mean, heart math in general, but also someone who puts it really, really well in her books is Maywan Ho. I love her. She's so good.

Yeah. She states it very, very well in her books, which are living water, I think so, living water, H2O, and then the rainbow and the worm. Yeah. She talks about coherence and heart coherence very, very well. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Do you want to describe a little bit about like the type of work you do with patients, clients online or in person and like where people can find you? Yeah. So in clinical practice, you know, I'm outside of Roanoke, Virginia, and I do very chiropractic, you know, basically what my license allows me to do.

And I do a little bit, you know, kind of try and get people more interested in like quantum stuff and circadian rhythm and light by giving them handouts and the people that bite. I help them a lot more. And then I do online health consulting. And so I just do like hourly consulting where I help people with all kinds of chronic conditions that they have complex chronic conditions, you know, just guiding them into the resources that they need, giving them education so they can make better informed health decisions. Because that's what it's all about.

Like, you know, no doctor is telling you what to do. They're giving your information. They're giving you options. You're deciding what to do. And sometimes that can be hard to do. but the more information you have, the more educated your decision will be. So that's the service I kind of provide for people. Amazing.

And I'll include links to all the places people can find you. And do you want to list off your books again so that people can be aware of also where they can find them, I guess, as well? Yeah. My website is resource your health.com because we have to find new sources of health. The old ones aren't working. And then my Instagram and social media is Dr. Stephen Hussey, D.R. Stephen Hussey. So you can find my books through there, but they're also on Amazon. They are the health evolution, which came out 2018.

This is my first attempt at a book. Understanding the Heart, which I could probably make 50% longer now. Maybe one day I will. I don't know. That came out in 2022. And then the latest one came out in 1st of August or something like that, and that's pain sense. With all the stuff we talked about pain, and they're all available on Amazon or through

my website or wherever. Amazing. Well, Stephen, thank you so much for coming on. This was a really enlightening conversation. I think people have a lot of great takeaways. And again, I'll include all your information in the show notes if people want to find you and work with you. And again, thank you so much for your time. Yeah, thanks for having me on.