Undoctrinate Yourself - #33 - Dr. Staci Whitman

Episode Date: March 12, 2025

Dr. Staci Whitman is a kids’ functional dentist in Portland, Oregon. She also has a newly budding virtual consultation option for families outside of the PNW, and is the co-founder of Feed Your Good Guys (FYGG) oral care products. Staci's Instagram: www.instagram.com/doctor_staciFYGG website (use code STACI15 at checkout for a discount): www.fygg.comFollow Dr. Alexis on Instagram: www.instagram.com/dralexisjazmynFollow the podcast on Instagram: www.instagram.com/undoctrinateyourselfpod

Hello everyone and welcome back to Undoctrinate Yourself. Today I'm sitting down with Dr. Stacey Whitman, who's a triple board certified functional dentist practicing out of Portland, Oregon, but also now more branching out into like the digital realm as well, which I'm excited to hear all the ways that we can work with her at the end of the podcast. But for now, I really want to introduce you to my audience and I'm really excited to share with you today. Yes, thanks, Alexis.

It's awesome to be here. This is a topic that doesn't get enough press time in my opinion. And so I appreciate the opportunity to share more about oral health and how we can improve upon current practices. Yeah. Yeah, it's a really important conversation. I mean, I think I would love to hear a little bit about how you ended up going into dentistry to begin with just to get a sense of what motivates you. Did you have any, like, issues with your teeth as a kid or are you one of those people who had like perfect teeth always? No, great question. You know, when I was 10, I had a very significant. bicycle accident. And you can kind of see I have some scars, some remnants.

So I was goofing off trying to impress some friends with my BMX biking skills. And I, a vaulted or knocked out a bunch of teeth and broke a bunch of teeth and broke my maxilla. And I was, it was a hot mess. It was a big deal. And so I was in and out of dentist offices and orthodontists and oral surgeons, I mean, for years, for truly years and years. So I was really exposed to the career. I actually grew up kind of an art kid.

I was an art theater kid. So, slash forward to college, and I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life. And I had this life experience, and I did like the idea of helping people, but I liked to work with my hands too. And it just kind of all came together that way.

So it was kind of random. I just felt it was a safe career, to be honest. I grew up in rural Maine, and I was looking for a reason to get, out of there. And so I wanted to be self-sufficient. But I will tell you, and we can dig into this a little bit more, my first day of dental school, I definitely had a moment where I thought I had made a bad choice. And that carried through. And sometimes it still has carried through at a current time, but I'm trying to change the narrative and change the industry. And so again, I appreciate the

opportunity to speak about things that I think can be improved upon and change. But that, that's my story. So it did come from personal trauma, essentially. Wow. Wow. So when, when you were at dental school for the first day, did you feel like a sense of this system is broken? What am I going to do here? What was the vibe? Yeah. I fell out of place and like these are not my people. So everyone was lovely and nice. This is nothing personal. But I have always been a bit more of a creative and I guess more curious. And I kind of like to rock the boat and ask questions. And it was very robotic, I felt like, and programmed and everyone just did what they were supposed to do and follow directions. And God forbid, you question fluoride or anything like that, which we'll get into later.

And so you just kind of put your head down, your blinders up, and you just try to get through the curriculum because it is very challenging. But it never resonated with me. But even I got sucked into it. I mean, you just have to for survival. But then you get out and you start practicing. And at some point, you know, I think many of us, which is why burnout is so high in these industries and careers, you just sit back and you, what am I doing?

Like, I am doing nothing. I am the drilling and the fillings and the root canals. This is not moving the needle toward getting my patients healthy. This is truly just putting band-aids all over the place, putting lipstick on a pig, if you will. And I just, it didn't res. I really, I almost left dentistry. And what saved me is I thought, well, geez, I really hate this career. I don't, I feel like a fraud.

I'm not practicing how I preach. I was living a pretty clean lifestyle, you know, and that improves as we learn more and more. Personally, but I wasn't necessarily making those recommendations for my patients. And I thought, well, how can I help fix this? And it's with kids. I need to get upstream to educate the parents to inspire the children and to prevent traumatic, emotionally toxic experiences in the dental chair because so many adults that I had, I was an adult dentist for years, had phobia.

They have trauma. They have stories from childhood where they were quite literally abused and overtreated. You know, we're very aggressive with how we treat children's oral health, in my opinion. And it leads to these adults that then are afraid of the dentist. They don't go to the dentist. And so their chronic disease just gets worse and worse and worse. And we know now that oral systemic connection is incredible. I mean, it's profound.

how important oral health is for systemic wellness. And so these terrified patients with PTSD aren't seeing the dentist because of experiences in childhood. And so I know education is everything. A lot of families and humans are just doing the best they can, but they don't have the information because they've been given the incorrect information. And so, again, platforms like this are very helpful to educate true root causes of of disease, how to prevent chronic disease, and emphasizing lifestyle, you know, and I know that's something you're really passionate about too. Yeah, absolutely. And maybe for the listeners,

I can share a little bit of my story. I know I shared it with you in the DMs. So I had this very extensive oral surgery when I was two years old. I know something, I don't know the exact specifics of what went on, but I think there was something like I, well, first of all, I think I grew up in a house that was full of mold. And I don't know if there was, maybe, some issues with the like electrical wiring tube, but I mean, I'm just going off of like kind of my 2020 like hindsight vision right now. But I had, I was just a very like fussy baby, I guess. I was crying a ton. And the only way that my mom could get me to calm down was to like give me juice in a bottle like in my bed or in the crib. And apparently that like rotted my teeth or whatever,

like the very baby teeth when I was like two or younger. And so I had this like three to four hour long procedure that I still remember vividly to this day as a two-year-old and literally had PTSD from that up until like my mid-20s, but they basically had my mouth mechanically cranked open for the entire time like three hours. And I like vividly remembered like the bright lights in my face and like the way the doctor was talking, which was like a super like super slow, like almost everything was in like slow motion. And it like stretched all the ligaments in my jaw out. So like I still even have TMJ to this to this day. Like it's improved. quite a bit because I've been working with some providers in the space, but like it's, I don't know if

it's ever going to be like 100%. And so there was that experience. And then all throughout my childhood, every time I went to the dentist, I would have multiple cavities and it was just always bad news. And it was like super stressful. So like I never wanted to go, but I went as a kid. And then like when I went to college, there was definitely a period of time where like I just didn't want to go. And I would basically just go if there was something wrong. Like basically I broke a filling. one time in college and then I had to get that replaced. And luckily, I never had any like root canals somehow by the grace of God. But then when I started understanding more like the circadian stuff and the microbiome piece and all these different little pieces as I was in my graduate

school career at Princeton and was just starting to really like rehab my life in a way. And I finally went back to the dentist after not going for many years. And I had been implementing like the nanohydroxyapatite toothpaste from Boka. And then I also had, used your guys like fig brand as well. And I was optimizing my vitamin D through getting sun exposure. I was also supplementing for a period of time. We can also talk about like differences there as well. But I was highly deficient for most of my life. I know when I was like early 20s, maybe it was less than 20 nanograms per a little later, probably like 15 or something like this. And obviously I live in New Jersey and I have my whole life and I'm mixed. So my skin requires like a bit more sunlight to maximize vitamin D and like optimize it. So.

Anyway, I was maxing, sun maxing and using the hydroxy appetite and flossing and like oil pulling and doing the things. And when I went for that checkup, it was the first time in my entire life that I did not have a cavity. Yes. And what made it even more impressive is that I went to the dentist one time at Princeton. And it was like a dentist in Princeton. So I assumed it was going to be pretty good. But I think they were pretty aggressive in their treatment. And they had found like six cavities in my mouth. And there were three in the upper left quadrant. And I got the three, there were like three in the upper right that I got filled. And then I was like, I just don't want to do this anymore. So I never went back for the other three. So when I went to

the dentist cavity free, that was including the three cavities they had diagnosed. You re-mineralized them. Right. Or they weren't, they weren't really there to begin with. Like they could have been incipient. So maybe they were to heal. Or, you know, maybe something else was going on. I'm not sure. I think I wouldn't even be surprised if the teeth have a more ability to heal than we even can understand. They do. But so that's been my more recent experience where it's just like, wow, so many of the things that I'm doing are actually influencing my dental health. And yet I had to figure this out by myself.

I didn't have anybody telling me like what to do, which is just a shame, right? Yeah, it is. I'm, thank you for sharing that. Yeah. Yeah, our bodies are incredible. Like, so our teeth demineralize and remineralize every, every time we eat some. Anytime you put anything into your mouth, it's impacting the pH. It's impacting the bacteria.

When you eat, it's part of the digestive process. So the pH lowers, you know, and we do lose minerals from our teeth. But if you are optimized and your salivary content is healthy, you know, and that it can have to do with stress and definitely sunlight exposure and nutrition and how we're sleeping, then your teeth will remineralize. And sometimes we do need a boost. And this is where products come in. But traditional dentistry, I mean, generally, this is the hierarchy.

It's fluoride, hygiene, then nutrition, and then maybe lifestyle factors. And I would challenge to flip that completely upside down. It's lifestyle, nutrition, hygiene, and then products. And so it's a paradigm shift. And I mean, I empathize with dentists because they don't have a lot of time to educate. It's the same with medical doctors. And so you need to train your auxiliary team to do this training. And my practice is different.

I have a functional pediatric practice or appointments are longer. But even then, you know, I could spend two or three hours with a family doing health coaching and really educating them because so many people really have no exposure to this information. So what did I do? I mean, we come up with solutions. I created beautiful PDFs and handouts for them to go home with. so they can educate and learn. I have my social media platform where I try to continue to educate people.

So I think as a provider, it depends how big do you want to go? Like how much you really want to change your patient's health? There are solutions to this. And yeah, you're not going to get reimbursed on prevention, but why did you go into this? Is it about the G-Wagon in the driveway? Hopefully not. Like, hopefully that isn't your priority. Hopefully it's making your patients happy, you know?

So I don't know. I think patients, they need to find people that are teams that are there to support them. And just like yourself, sometimes you have to take it on yourself. Sometimes you have to make the changes and implement yourself. And luckily now there's so much information out there, which can be a good and bad thing. But, you know, just as you did, you've made some lifestyle changes and look at you. And I hope now you have a different emotional relationship. with your dentist. I mean, sometimes people can't get past that. I will share stories. I mean,

I definitely agree. Dentistry, for the most part, is very much the overtreatment plan. We overdiagnose. We over-treatment plan, especially with children. So many children are undergoing general anesthesia for things that I believe could be monitored. Now, don't get me wrong. I have to do general anesthesia on some children, too. Children that have abscesses in infection and are in pain, and they have cellulitis, and it's an urgent situation. But we really try to avoid that and try to support the body to at least kick the can or even truly heal the issues. So conservative dentistry is very important, you know.

And the baby teeth, they do fall out. And my pediatric colleagues get very frustrated with me. I'm not trying to speak negatively about our profession, but the teeth do fall out. they're important, yes, but is it worth traumatizing a child like your experience? And it traumatizes the family. There's a financial burden. So I just, I ask people to look at everything differently and look at the child that is attached to those teeth and the emotions that are attached to those teeth and the family that's attached to those teeth. And are there other strategies that you can use to maintain the issues at hand? I mean, they used to teach. I spoke to you about this before.

It's something called hand over mouth. I almost got, well, I did get in trouble and my residency, but one of my professors wanted to kick me out because I fought back on this. So it was in textbooks. Hand over mouth was a behavioral management technique where parents were not allowed in the room. This was not that long ago, by the way. I mean, this is like the 50s, the 60s, the 70s. I don't know when it left textbooks.

I can't be quoted on that. but it's not as long ago as you might think. And so the child's in the chair, the parent's not there, and the provider literally puts their hand over their mouth. Wow. And I've seen, I've witnessed this in my program. And I graduated in 2011, okay? And speaks very firmly to the child, threatening.

And if they don't listen, then there's an appendix, a level two that's hand over mouth with airway restriction. and you pinch the nose. I was taught in schools. And so this teacher of mine, who I believe just retired, he did this to this boy. And I actually physically pushed him off the child, and he did not like that.

And that's a situation. That boy had a mouth full of cavities. He needed so much work. He should have had an anesthesia visit. But now instead we're going to create this incredible emotional trauma. arguably that's assault. And the parent would have had no idea. And this was a Hispanic family. The boy didn't even speak English. I mean, this does happen in some offices still. It's not as common. I'm not trying to like speak so badly about my profession. We've come a long way, I think,

is what I'm trying to say. But there's still a lot of archaic practices out there when you could really just spend time with that family to educate them on how to get this. child healthy and it can be the littlest things like getting outside more moving your body more drinking more water you know trying to switch out the goldfish crackers with a healthier substitute things of that nature so really simple little changes in some of these individuals lives can have profound impacts not to mention the mental health benefit too yeah and i mean i'm thinking even the most recent lobotomy i think was in like the 60s too so it's like it often and then there's a quote from I can't quite remember which scientist it was, but it's a great quote that says something like,

like science and or medicine advances one funeral at a time because it's like this old, indoctrinated cohort needs to basically retire or die in order for things to start progressing. And it's sad but true. I think there's just a lot of dogmatism, especially in like medicine and dentistry, like this is the way things are done because this is the way we did them versus like really trying to understand like, what can we do better? And there's ego attached to it. I'm seeing that right now with the fluoride issue.

So we can dig into that. But there are people. So I'll go into it. Great. If I met. So fluoride has been very controversial for a long time. I think we know that. Well, about a week ago, there's been a trial, a federal trial going on for seven years.

And the judge made his ruling. It's monumentous. And he ruled after seven years of expert testimonies from epidemiologists, endocrinologists, neuroscientists, you know, microbiologists, chemical scientists, etc. He ruled that at current fluoridation practices that there is an unreasonable risk to children's brain development, neurocognitive development. And this is because there are studies that are showing IQ drops. up to 4.5 points, which is on par with lead.

Wow. Yes. And the thing that many people don't realize is there have never been long-term safety studies on water fluoridation. Water fluoridation started from an observation, and it just took off from there. And this is where the federal trial came in. It was the people versus the EPA, and the people were saying, where are the safety studies? show us that at current levels, that it's safe because there's more and more data coming out saying the opposite. And there's very, very high quality studies. And this is what the American

Dental Association and the American Academy of Pediatrics and many dentists are going to push back on. They claim they're saying pseudoscience, woo-woo. These are excellent studies. In fact, the one by Rivka Green, it's out of Canada. It followed over 500 mother-child. pairs and assess urinary fluoride levels and found that at higher levels. And we say higher, but this is not outrageously high. And I'll get into the numbers. The children had IQ drops. And JAMA pediatrics published it. And the editor-in-chief got a lot of flack. But he fought back. He defended himself. He said, listen, I try to rip the study apart. It is an excellent study. He did a 12-minute podcast on it.

You can listen to it. He's breaking down the study with another colleague and MD. And at the end, you have to listen to the very end. They both say, based on this, I do not feel I can confidently recommend that pregnant women or children drink fluoridated water. This was in 2019. So now there's a legal precedent. A federal judge has said there's an unreasonable risk at current practices. There was a national toxicology report that came out about six weeks ago.

This was kept under lock and key for many, many years. This was a report under the Department of Health and Human Services. So this is a government agency. They had been looking at the Florida data. They wouldn't release the report. The judge under the Freedom of Information Act said, I need the report. The report came out. It says the same thing.

There are concerns. With water fluoridation at current practices, what the ADA is going to emphasize is the level 1.5 milligrams per liter. Okay, we currently fluoridate at 0.7 milligrams per liter. That's only a 2x difference, by the way. That's the difference between one liter of water versus two liters of water. So that is not a big window of discrepancy, especially when we're getting our children are getting exposed to fluoride through pharmaceuticals, through ultra-processed foods, through the toothpaste they swallow, the varnish that they're putting on their teeth, the rinses, et cetera. So aside from that, though, the 1.5 milligrams per liter, that's what's in the abstract. If you actually read the report,

which no one does, it says that we have concerns at 0.7 milligrams. per liter also with neurocognitive issues. And the study out of Canada, Mexico, and the U.S. and others have all said the same thing. And that's what the judge has said. At current fluoridation practices, there's an unreasonable risk. That is, at 0.7 milligrams per liter, we are seeing neurocognitive issues. We don't know if it's because the level of the water or all the outside sources people are getting fluoride from. It doesn't matter. The other thing to know is, we don't know what level is safe. Is 0.6 milligrams liters safe? It's 0.5. There's no studies. So the other thing to think about is fluoride works topically, primarily, not systemically.

So if you really want to be using fluoride, simply use it topically in a toothpaste and spit it out. Don't swallow it. You don't need to be ingesting it. But the big issue here is choice. Like families should have a choice. Humans should have a choice. humans should have a choice if they're exposed to a no neurotoxin or not. And you're going to hear a dose makes the poison, you know, all the same cliche stuff, right? Sudo-science, it's woo-woo. The federal judge, there's a federal precedent right now. And so we're actually seeing municipalities removing it from the water.

This past week, the lawsuits are flying. I mean, it is a hot mess. And who isn't covering it as they should be is the media. Like this should be huge news. It should be huge news. But dentists are doubling down on it. I'm in shock. I really am.

I'm so disappointed in my colleagues. I'm not surprised. You know, I'm not a member of the American Dental Association for various reasons. And now this just confirms and makes me feel better about that choice. But it's a big deal. And so this is another archaic principle. And science changes, you know,

we used to do. lobotomies, we used to do hand over mouth with airway restriction. I hope one day we can say we used to fluoridate our water because we are one of the last developed countries that still does this practice. Many people do not realize that. So a majority of the world does not. About 97% of the world no longer fluoridates and most countries have removed it long ago for various reasons. One, these health issues, but also just choice. You know, we're mass medicating people without their consent. That's a big deal.

And the unfortunate thing is that people that are impacted the most are those who can't afford water filters, reverse osmosis filters, or to drink bottled water. And then we talk about bottled water. Now we're talking about microplastic exposure. That's a whole other issue because that's what Dennis are saying now. Oh, if they don't want it, just filter their water or buy. bottled water. Well, easy for you to say. And also, what are the impacts of that? But not only the environmental impacts of that, right? So it's maddening. The other thing no one talks about is that

fluoride is antimicrobial. So we are ingesting essentially like an antibiotic every day. So what is that doing to our oral microbiome, our gut microbiome? It competes with iodine. It's a very reactive ion. So thyroid health, I mean, we don't even understand. We don't even understand what is doing to us systemically. So it's a big deal. Thank you for letting me share it. The fluoride action network is a wonderful resource. If you want to look at the studies, if you want to follow the trial, it's fascinating. It reads and watches like a soap opera. You can actually read the summary of it. You can watch the testimonies on YouTube, which is fascinating. I mean, if you actually actually, spend time watching it, it's impossible to walk away not having concerns with water fluoridation.

I think the ADA and these dentists, they just spend no time. It's just, unfortunately, it's kind of group think. They just don't do, they don't spend the time to learn. They just, one person says it's okay and then they all follow suit. And for me, I think, you know, I'm an advocate for children's health, brain health over teeth. You know, we only have one shot to develop a brain. I can fix a tooth if I need to, but the interesting thing is when you look at World Health Organization data, fluoridated countries and unfluoridated countries have the same decay rate. Isn't that interesting? And then you will also hear

the American Dental Association say it reduces cavities by 25%. Well, number one, that study has a lot of issues with it that they're referring to, but also when you average that out from a population standpoint, it ends up only being one half cavity per person. So a half a cavity for the, it's a risk-benefit analysis. So maybe it's reducing one half a cavity, but it could be impacting our children's brain health by five IQ points, which is on par with blood. And as we know, right now, we say there is no safe level of blood exposure because we don't have the data. we also don't have the data with fluoride water fluorid Asia and there should be no safe level because we don't have the data you know we the burden of proof should be on safety always and um and dentists unfortunately medicine dentistry it's everything so compartmentalized you know and oral health is no different and so even dentists they just they forget that the mouse connected to the body and things that we put in the mouth and we're doing for dental health they can impact things downstream And again, I just really can't emphasize enough brain health over anything, you know.

So I encourage you if you live in a community that's fluoridated, you now have scientific reason and legal precedent to speak to your local municipalities and voice concern about their fluoridation practices. And I am seeing cities, I get news alerts every day. They're just popping up that cities are abandoning water fluoridation. It's really cool. And so what the judge has said, he's put it back now on the EPA. He said EPA, you haven't been doing such a great job regulating this. So you need to regulate it. And the one thing you can't do is ignore what I'm asking. So we have heard nothing from the EPA since his ruling. They have been crickets. We'll see. We will see what happens. But it's big news. So is that always going to be decided at the state level? Or do you know, could that be a federal issue? as well? I think it could be federal. I suspect they will put it on the state and the city level that they're going to punt it. That would be my guess. Because this, everyone's scared about legal repercussions. I mean, the lawsuits are already happening. There were attorneys stepping forward

going, oh, okay, I'm now a water fluoridation advocate. You know, because if we've been, the issue is they've had this report for so many years. They've kept it hidden, essentially. So that's where they're going to get into trouble, is that they knew. They knew there were concerns and no one said anything. So I'm interested to see how it all pans out. But I think the bigger conversation is you don't need fluoride to be healthy. You don't need fluoride to have no cavities. This is reprogramming. Okay. Arguably, I find patients that are using fluoride to have worse. oral health. I believe because it's damaging the oral microbiome, it's killing commensal bacteria. If we get too much fluoride, there's something called fluorosis. 40% of teenagers have

fluorosis, which means too much fluoride. You'll see it as modeling in the teeth. That means it's also affecting the skeletal system. Fluoride loves to be stored in calcifying tissue, so the pineal gland. And the minute you say pineal gland, that's where people go off the rails. They go, oh, woo-woo. It's like this is a part of her body that does store calcium. If you do an MRI, you can see calcifications in the pineal gland. You can. So I don't know. I don't know why that triggers people so much. I don't know if it has to do with like yogi third eye. I don't know why. But anyway, only about 80% of fluorides excreted in children and 50% in adults. And it is important to know the hydrofluorosolistic acid that they use to fluoridate water,

It is different than calcium or sodium fluoride, and it reacts differently in the body. And so I really like to focus on water fluoridation specifically. I have my own personal opinions about topical fluoride, too. But hydrofluorosolic acid is a byproduct of the phosphate fertilizer industry. Oh, yeah. And it is extremely hazardous. They have to put on, they wear full hazmat suits to put it into our water. You're still going to hear, yeah, but then it gets diluted.

I don't know. I mean, are you okay with that? Are you comfortable with this practice? And I'm not. I'm not. I'm not okay with it. And I know you're not either. So anyway, and clearly the judge wasn't either.

So it's really nice to have that legal precedent too. Yeah, that's great. And I mean, when we think about just from like basic chemistry class, we learn that fluoride is the most electronegative element on the periodic table, which means that it can basically steal electrons from other things. And we really want oxygen to be the most electron negative because that allows the flow of electrons through the electron transport chain in mitochondria. But imagine if, you know, fluoride is getting in there and creating like an electron steel syndrome where we're now not able to power a mitochondria effectively because of this abundance of fluoride in the system. And that makes sense that it would impact the brain because it's like one of the most mitochondrally dense tissues in the body next to the heart.

So we like, we really don't want to mess with metabolism and mitochondrial function in these tissues. This is what I want your lab to study. I want you to study the impacts of Florida mitochondrial health. I mean, that's next level. No one's talking about that. That's just too high level for most dentists to be discussing, you know. But I worry about that too. I mean, on a cellular level, what is it doing?

The answers we don't know. We're just, it's a big giant science experiment. And unfortunately, it's our children that are being impacted the most. So we need to change our practices, I think. And again, we have to make paradigm shifts and really focus, again, on lifestyle and diet, nutrition. It's important and stress reduction. And all those things that we know are wonderful to optimize health.

I mean, they're just as wonderful to optimize oral health, too. And those are the things that really move the needle. Yeah, I have a couple thoughts about, like, dentistry in general. And then I'd like to talk about, like, fluoride compared to something like hydroxyapit and like on the product side of things, how they differ mechanistically, et cetera. But on the dentistry side of things, like I remember learning years ago that dentistry had the highest suicide rates out of all of the professions. I think that's changed somewhat more recently. But in light of understanding more about light and its effects on biology, I was thinking, I mean, also Jack Cruz was a dentist and oral surgeon before he went into neurosurgery.

And I feel like I've connected with a lot of pretty open-minded dentists more recently. So I'm really hopeful that like your field attracts people who are maybe willing to change, especially like the younger generations. Yes, definitely. But I'm thinking about all of like the really bright artificial lights, like the xenon bulbs and other things that you guys use when you're doing, like when you're working in the mouth and how that could be impacting your neurochemistry. And like if it's, you know, very bright white light enriched in blue frequencies that it's hijacking that dopamine system that's making it like basically creating burnout. And if you're burned out, of course, you also have the debt from dental. school or medical school and you're dealing with all this other stuff. Also, you're not feeling like you're helping your patient. So it's just like you're on this like kind of hamster wheel.

All of these things synergizing just to create really poor morale and like it just makes a ton of sense from like that level as well. You've nailed it. I mean, yeah, I've heard Dr. Cruz speak about this too, just the light. It's for any doctor or surgeon. I mean, you're underneath these bright lights. I do what I can in my office. I mean, it would be so rad to have an outdoor clinic, but that probably wouldn't pass. our OSHA regulations. But anyway, quartz glass windows. Yeah, yeah, I know. I know. Well, if I ever build another office, you just, you live and learn, right? It's like, oh, I would do this so differently. You nailed it. You nailed it. And not only on top of that, now, Ed, your patients

hate you. They're scared of you. And they're in pain. And you're responsible for getting them out of pain. And I'm going to tell you, teeth are hard. They react in ways that we cannot predict. Dentistry fails. We do our best. And yeah, I don't think it's still the top field, but it's in the top. I mean, most of my colleagues are not happy with their choice and career. And if they say they are, I think they're fibbing, most of them. It's long hours. And yeah, you end up not taking care of yourself.

You're inside all day. You're under all this light. Dennis generally aren't eating the best from my observation. you know, these are generalizations, but it's because you're kind of in your office. You can't go outside and get a walk. You just feel like garbage. And so what are you going to grab? You're going to grab a donut.

You're going to grab a cookie. You're going to grab a muffin. It just perpetuates itself. It's really true. But I do agree with you. I'm very inspired by the younger docs. They reach out to me on social media and they're amazing. And I think many of them, it's because they've had their own chronic health issues.

So sometimes that's what it takes for us to. open our eyes. We have to see a loved one or have a story ourselves to say, whoa, this isn't right. This isn't how life is supposed to be. So the field definitely needs a reboot. I'm trying to work on that. I'm working with a couple other wonderful functional dentists to create the Institute of Functional Dentistry. It should launch next year. This will be a training institute where people can get certified in functional dentistry. I think we might need you, I'll ask Dr. Cruz too. I've spoken to him a couple times. We really need it. I mean, we are trying to change the way things are. And I do feel we have to have the basic training. You can go in with a skeptical mind, but you do need to understand the basics. Like, and there's a lot to dentistry. There's the medicine and the science and all the, the chemistry and biology. But then you're actually doing little mini surgeries every day. And you're, you're expected to. run a business. That's the other thing people don't speak of. Dentistry is such an interesting

field where you're you're doing it all most of the time. So it's very stressful. So we are trying to create a consistent way for people to get certified rather than just saying, I'm a functional dentist, which is great. We actually want to make sure you're educated in all the areas, including, you know, human optimization, mitochondrial health, lifestyle factors, air, water, sunlight, like all of these things that really aren't being discussed in dentistry at all. And I'm a perpetual student. I'm by no means an expert in any of this. That's why I listen to everything you put out and everything Dr. Cruz puts out because I wasn't

exposed to any of this. And so I'm trying to constantly find ways to implement this into my practice. That's beautiful. I mean, me too. I only just discovered his work last year, April 2023. my entire life has changed since then, my entire practice and just the way that I'm living and the way that I feel in my body as well. It's just like very life-changing stuff. And every day I learned something new. And I think that's very exciting personally. I would be so bored. I would like question if I'm alive if I'm not learning something. Same. Me too. I was bored. That's what partly what happened too. I just was like it there's this really cynical cliche saying drill, fill bill. That's like the dental paradigm. Drill, fill, bill. And I was doing that. I was like, there has to be more to life. I'm depressed.

I mean, I was very unhealthy not that long ago back in 2020 was a wake-up call for me because I was mandated to be closed. I couldn't go to work for a few months. It was the biggest blessing for me because I was thrown off the hamster wheel. I had to look in the mirror and say, what are you doing? And that's when I really had a profound change in the way I practiced and the way I thought and looked at everything. and I look back at photos of me now and it was so interesting.

I was eating really well. I kind of always have. But I wasn't implementing any of the other things. I wasn't going outside. I wasn't walking. I wasn't sleeping well. My outlook was very negative. I was under all that junk light every day.

Plus, dentistry is very toxic. I mean, if you're working with mercury filings, which thank goodness I'm not, But a lot of the materials and things we use, I mean, dentists are exposed to just a lot of nasty stuff every day. And so you need to really be on top of that. And so, you know, testing for heavy metals, testing your gut microbiome, making sure you're getting lab work done, you know, are you living as optimally as you can? And unfortunately, until you get a moment to take a breath and say, gosh, how do I really want to live my life? It's really hard to pull yourself out of that. So I'm thankful for that.

And I just hope more dentists can start looking at things differently too. So I'm excited. I think it's a cool time to be alive. I feel a big shift happening. Definitely. And I think COVID really was a catalyst for a lot of people in that process of just like examining day-to-day life and like what's not working and just really it was like a reboot. And I think it was a real blessing in that way.

I have a question for you. I'm not sure. We haven't talked about it. so you can feel free to defer or we can get back to it another time. But I have two good friends as like a kid and then like we're still friends to this day. But they never had any cavities in their mouth. They were eating junk, sugar, like trash. Like they weren't really taking care of their teeth. And they just had perfect teeth. And then there was me who was like trying to take care of my teeth and had cavities every time. Is there like a genetic environmental component? I mean, I'm sure there's

an environmental component. Do we know anything about the genetics of this? Yeah, we do. We're learning more and more. The big thing, I think so much that has to do with oral microbiome and gut health. And so we do know different families harbor different bacteria and that some of us have less diversity than others for various reasons. So there's that, but also enamel deficiency, mineral deficiencies. And that can be epigenetic. That is epigenetic. So I'm seeing a huge in children coming in whose teeth are mineral deficient. And most dentists can recognize this clinically. There's something called hypoplastic or hypo-calcified enamel. And it will be modeled or chalky, sometimes brown spots, yellow spots. It just looks different. The way the light reflects and

refracts is different. And the crystalline structure is different when you look under electron on microscopy. So instead of these very organized bonds, it's all haphazard, like pickup sticks. And so it's very weak. And it's susceptible to these acid attacks from day-to-day life more. And in some days, they can chip and crumble. And it's, it is increasing. I don't have data to back that up, but I am telling you, and I have colleagues across the world that are saying, yes, it is. And so I've dug into the research, there's so many reasons for this, vitamin D deficiency, mitochondrial health, all the things, right? Mineral deficiencies, stress, exposures to environmental toxins,

mycotoxins, antibiotic exposure, but microplastics. So amelogenesis is a hormone-driven process. So this endocrine disruption from these microplastics is impacting the way enamel forms. And so now that we're seeing microplastic everywhere and in everyone, you know, how is that impacting the, the, the, the, development of children's teeth. And this is a big deal. So these kids have no chance. Their teeth erupt and they're already crumbling. So moms are now getting blamed for breastfeeding, their child, which is a very natural process. It's the number one way to optimize a child's

airway health and facial development, not to mention immune health and just the wonderful bonding and hormones and et cetera. We all know. It's great if you can do it and it resonates. So dentists and doctors are telling moms to stop breastfeeding because it's destroying the children's teeth. But that's not the issue. The issue is the children's teeth are deficient and not protected. They don't even have the enamel layer on them. And so this is a big deal. It's actually where I'm hoping to devote more of my time and research and expertise in my lecturing is about enamel hypoplasia.

And how I think it's actually, if it's not already, it's becoming a global. silent global epidemic. And if children don't have teeth to chew with, how are they going to be nutritionally optimized? You know, and these teeth, they also are innervated differently, so they tend to be very hot and cold sensitive. They're hard to brush. I mean, it just creates this vicious cycle. I mean, we take our teeth for granted, I think, how important it is to be comfortable

with eating and drinking, you know. And if you've ever had a toothache, you can probably relate to that. it's it really affects you in very profound ways. So, so anyway, it's, there's just so much to it. There's so much to it. But stay tuned. Stay tuned. This is another thing I'm going to add. I'm adding things to your lab for you. Thank you. I appreciate that. We need to make a list. But yeah, I'm thinking like, there are a lot of untold effects. Like, for example, we know that like chewing on like hard or chewy foods helps with also the facial development and the maintenance of the jawbone and just like the facial structures. And so if you're avoiding eating foods that you really need to chew,

maybe you're opting for like liquid foods or like soft mushy foods, like that's going to affect your face, your airway. Like then that could lead to more mouth breathing, which can then dry your saliva, which can then make your teeth dintirize more. And like actually maybe let's talk about saliva for a little bit in the role that it plays in a healthy mouth because I think a lot of people don't think about that. Yeah. Oh, it's so important. So think of saliva like the golden elixir in your body. Number one, it's hugely important for. digestion. So all those digestive enzymes, there's immune cells, and there's beautiful calcium and phosphorus and all these ions floating around. So it's this symphony. Plus it lubricates. It

helps with speech and then it helps with digestion in the GI tract. So, you know, this is why cancer patients, they tend to, if they're undergoing radiation, they get dry mouth, zero stomia, or if anybody's had chrogrens disease, they just tend to get rampant decay. And your saliva protects your teeth more than you can ever imagine. So we talk a lot about spit with the kids. And I can tell looking in a child's mouth if they're dehydrated or not. This is just observational, but if it's bubbly and frothy and thick and mucusy, they are dehydrated.

If it's free flowing and it looks beautiful like water, they're hydrated. And those kids that are hydrated, they definitely have healthier mouths. And that promotes that mineral exchange or that constant demineralization, remineralization. It helps buffer and balance and neutralize the mouse. So, you know, when we eat, our mouths become more acidic. But over time, our saliva will naturally buffer and remaneralize if we're optimized with these minerals. And this is why eating frequency really matters too.

So the modern standard American diet, these hyper-palatable foods where the scientists have manufactured the optimized bliss point that just hijacks your brain, these foods are meant to be consumed and snacked upon all day and sipped upon. So the frappuccino and the Doritos, you grab some, you eat them, you intend to walk away from the bag, but you can't. You got to go back and grab another handful. And so every time you're sipping and eating, your mouth is staying in an acidic state. So there's something called the Stefan Curve, and it just shows this remineralization,

de mineralization sequence in the mouth and how important it is to give your mouth a rest, just like we know it's important to give our digestion a rest. Okay, we can't be eating all day. That's not the way the body was meant to be working. So we want to eat on a schedule. This is why we want to optimize really high quality protein in the morning. So we stay satiated. This includes our children.

So kids are being fed these disgusting cereals and donuts and pancakes and maple syrups. And I mean, there's no hope. They're blood sugars on a roller coaster all day long. And so they're just going to sip and snack and never feel sassy. And those kids who eat and snack a lot, they have a much higher cavity risk. So we really try to talk about eating on its schedule, optimizing. the Stefan curve and then working on hydration and mineral dense, nutrient dense food so that your saliva is healthy too.

So it's something people don't think about in electrolytes, of course. So so many people can drink water, but they're still fairly dehydrated. And I know we can, I mean, water could be a whole other podcast, but, you know, it's just, again, it's getting back to the basics. And you mentioned chewing. So thank you for saying that. I'm an airway dentist too and so we are shrinking. Our faces are shrinking.

There's an incredible book, Breath by James Nestor. He was just in my house like two weeks ago. Yeah, he's, he's awesome. He's, we are friendly. He's a really great guy. He's brilliant. We owe him so much thanks for making airway kind of sexy and cool. That book is wonderful.

And I really think it's on a must read list. So please everyone run out and grab that or you can listen. into it on Audible. That being said, we know the face is shrinking, the jaws are shrinking, the pallets are shrinking. I mean, you go to a natural history museum, you look at a skull of modern day versus not that long ago, 10,000 years ago. It doesn't even look like the same species almost in certain individuals. And so what's happened is we don't chew like we used to. You know, they theorize we used to chew up to four hours a day. We were foraging and we weren't, you know, slow cooking our meat all day long. So it was so tender. And that's okay to do,

but you need to counteract it with chewing carrots and apples and meat. And instead we're consuming gogurts and smoothies and, you know, chicken nuggets and squishy McDonald's cheeseburgers. So we're not chewing like we're supposed to be. And epigenetically and generationally, we're seeing big impacts by that. And so, Unfortunately, even with breastfeeding or introducing whole foods to your child, like maybe you're choosing baby lead weaning or something, you're not really going to reverse all those decades of epigenetic history. But we can try to start course correcting for future generations. And this is why early intervention is important too. So a big part of functional dentistry is an airway screening in our patients.

and for me, because I work with children, we intervene early. So if we find that the face hasn't grown optimally, we only get one chance to grow a face. Most facial development is done in children between 8 and 10 years old. So I don't care about straight teeth. I want optimized skeletal development and airway health. The interesting cool thing is if you fix that with various appliances, and I'm not going to get into them because everyone says this one's better and that one's better, work with a provider that is knowledgeable. But if we can grow the face, you know, expand the palate. And sometimes this involves

craniosacral therapy, seeing an osteopath, chiropractors, a lot that goes into it. If your jaws are big enough, the teeth fit and your teeth are straight. So you're avoiding braces. So braces to me are very antiquated. I'm not saying that some people don't benefit from them, but a lot of times if we start early, we can avoid some of those more. advance in arguably extreme procedures too. Yeah, absolutely. And I have, oh, the name of the book is escaping me, but Weston A Price is like Bible on nutrition and human, nutrition and degeneration.

Oh, yes, yes, that one. It's so good. And there's like great pictures in that book. And you can really see that like the tribal folks who were eating a natural diet and they weren't like modernized. They have these beautiful draw structures and they have straight teeth. And then you see even just like one generation of like more modernized eating and environments that you see this jaw like shrinking and a lot of crowding and, you know, these airways.

Decay. And decay. Yeah. Nutrition and physical degeneration. That's what it's called. And it is a Bible. It's a big one. So, you know, Stephen Lynn wrote the dental diet.

He's a functional dentist out of Australia. And he kind of modernized it a little bit with a lot of the same principles. So that's that's a little bit easier. read, but if you want to go to the guru, the original, the OG, it's Dr. Price for sure. Yeah, and I know Jack has talked about this at length, but like, I don't think at the time Dr. Price was thinking about other aspects of the environment outside of diet that were really a primary driver. And if you think about the modernization, it wasn't only the modernization of food, but also the modernization of the light environment and moving indoors more too, which,

I mean, from Becker's work, we know that like bone and presumably teeth as well is really impacted by the light environment and basically, you know, in a hydrated state, they actually act like pisoelectric structures that actually generate light, non-visible like biophotons that are transmitted throughout the body, which is just probably why the fascial network, which is just super interesting. And I really want to pick up where he left off because he was like the first canceled scientist back in his day. And like, there's so much more that we need to learn in this area now.

We just added one more things to your lab. So you were booked out now for a while. Let me know how I can help. Let me know how I can help. I agree with you. I'm fascinated with photon energy and light and its impact on dental development. And I have looked. There's just not a lot of studies or science on it, but it makes sense if you think about it. And so this is how science starts. You come up with an idea and a hypothesis and then you need a lab and someone really smart like yourself who does research to figure it out for us. So yeah. So we go. No pressure. No pressure. Let's circle back to the fluoride versus like hydroxy appetite conversation.

So when it comes to products or like topicals, what's the mechanism of each and like how are they different? Yeah. So fluoride. So we have calcium and phosphorus or hydroxy appetite in our teeth. So our teeth, the enamel is up to 95% hydroxy appetite. Our dentin has it too. Our bones have it. And the problem is.

we don't have any fluoride in our teeth. So what happens during a demineralized moment is we lose calcium and phosphorus. We lose essentially hydroxyapatite from our teeth. What fluoride does, it comes in and it creates flora appetite. So it's a different structure. And arguably, it's more acid resistant. But many argue it's actually a weaker form of enamel. And if you believe in biomimetics, it's no good. Like that's just not what nature does. So, There's that. And then, of course, it's very electronegative and it's antimicrobial. So then we're not only talking about what is doing to our enamel, but then what is it doing to the microbes in our mouths and our not only pathogenic bacteria, but commensal and beneficial bacteria too. And we still need a lot more

research and studies on that, but I have my theories. So then hydroxyapotite is biomimetic. I mean, it's replacing hydroxyapatite with hydroxyapotite. They still don't fully understand the bonding mechanism. But I will tell you, it's been around since the 70s, I will say. So Japan picked up on it really early, early adopters in the late 70s, early 80s. A lot of European countries are using it. And it just popped up in the United States. I think Boko is the first really to bring it here. I want to say 2015. So it's pretty new. And now you're seeing more and more companies release products with hydroxy appetite because it does work. I mean, it is incredible.

I will tell you clinically, it is incredible what it does. The kids just look healthier. Not only do their teeth look stronger, but they look more hydrated. Their tissues look healthier. And their microbiome tests come back better with the kids that I'm testing. And I do test for things like vitamin D. And I do want to get to that a little bit what I'm seeing with my kids with chronic decay.

I think you'll be fascinated. and we do some oral microbiome testing and salivary analysis and things too. So, and it's not antimicrobial. So it's, listen, I wish in a perfect world that everyone ate ancestrally and that we just didn't need to really brush and floss and we could just use water and call it a day. But that's just not our situation. So many people really do benefit from having some sort of remineralizer in their lives. and that's a personal choice, but I find patients that use it, they are healthier. And it's because in many other aspects, our microbiomes are off, our, you know, hydration is off,

we're mineral deficient, all of these things, that it's a nice way to prevent. And not only does it prevent, but it is healing and arresting cavities unlike anything I've ever seen. So I'm avoiding so many fillings and anesthesia visits in my kids. in my patients because of this product, nanohydroxyopathy specifically. And so I was a huge fan of Boca. I didn't love all, I don't, I don't love essential oils because they're antimicrobial. You know, some things are good for acute durations, like to get us to a certain point of balance.

So essential oils, I don't love long term because I worry what they're doing to commensal. So, you know, Boca has some emulsifiers and surfactants and just other little fillers additives that I didn't love. I thought it was decent. And there was some other companies. And I was working with them. And no one was listening to my suggestion. So this is when I decided, you know what, maybe I'll just make my own. And I partnered with Dr. Mark Bahunov, asked the dentist. And we created our own toothpaste called Fig, Feed Your Good Guys. And you mentioned that. And so thank you for that. But there are other wonderful products out there. But, you know, we wanted to really promote the oral microbiome. And I think that's what dentistry is

missing. So how can we modulate the microbiome through prebiotics and taking out all the other chemicals that might be shifting and altering the balances in our body? So I am a big hydroxyopitate fan. The SCCS in the EU, the Safety Committee for the Safety Council for Consumer Safety has studied it. And they do have specifications of how it should be created and, and, and, and, and, utilized. And so you just want to be working with brands and manufacturing facilities that are doing that. And that's like with anything. We want everything regulated. We want standardizations. But yeah, it has profound benefits. I mean, my patients are really, they may patients are noticing. I think, did you notice the difference when you switch to it? Yeah. Yeah. I do too.

I had gone through a really stressful time. Like I just graduated from Princeton and I lost my mom within the span of like two weeks. And I noticed like the month after that, my teeth, literally started looking translucent. Like it was really bad. So I started basically using, I was using vitamin D supplement at the time because it was the middle of winter. Using that, I started taping my mouth when I was sleeping because I suspected I had some mouth breathing going on, which of course, like dries the mouth out and then you're missing out on that salivary benefit. And then I started using the boca all at the same time. And within two weeks, like I have before and after pictures that I posted on my Instagram like a couple years ago and it's dramatic. Like,

you could literally see through my teeth initially. And then they were perfect. perfectly white and like opaque. So it definitely works. And so I just have one question though, because I get a lot of questions about like the safety of the nano particles. And so I saw some safety studies like on the nanozim patented formulation. Like they're like the spherical particles that are, I think those are supposed to be the safe ones, right? They are the only ones approved for safety by the, okay, first of all, the FDA is never going to do anything here. So let's look to the EU, which I quite frankly trust more anyway. So yes, they have. So yes, they have approved ninoxum is how it's pronounced it's made by fluidi nova out of portugal yes it's spherical shaped

it has a very specific aspect ratio it's constantly third party tested it dissolves in solution in about seven minutes completely that means stomach acid and saliva so it's not crossing epithelial linings or the blood brain barrier the the studies people are referencing if you really dig into them. There's a few, there's a couple studies. They're either animal studies. There's one with zebrafish where they were injected with extremely high boluses of

suboptually manufactured hydroxyapatite IV. So like we can't compare that, right? That's not even how we're utilizing it. And then the human studies have all if using an oxen have proved to be

just fine. So So it's calcium and phosphorus, but you don't want needle-shaped particles. And the problem is there are manufacturing facilities in other countries that I worry about their practices. So if a brand isn't using anoxone, I just simply wouldn't use it until we have more regulations with that specific manufacturing facility. But some of these manufacturing facilities, too, you know, they can test really high and heavy metals and just other contaminants as well.

So you just want to make sure you're sourcing anything, whether it's a supplement, whether it's, you know, your food. Like you want to know where it comes from and that they're being regulated, right? These are good things. So I like to say this. I'm an end of one. And I can share studies with you. I obviously spent a lot of time focusing on this. I'm an end of one, but I do occasionally have full body MRIs just for maintenance and knowing.

And my last one, so I've been using nanohydroxyapatite since 2015, since I first heard about it. And, you know, my pineal gland looks okay. My blood level, I'm not leaching calcium. I've done it. I've had a carotid scan before. I don't have any calcifications. Again, I'm an end of one. But I use nanohydroxyapatite.

So I'm not concerned. My kids have their blood work done. They are not in balance with their calcium levels. I think it's a little bit of a social media frenzy. And then not to be like conspiracy theorists. I'm like, who are these people giving such shade? I mean, where did this all come from? Hashtag the fluoride council?

Like, why are they feeling so threatened by this product that's been used for decades and decades and decades in other countries with ample data? I have friends and colleagues in Japan and the EU and they think the United States is hilarious. Because they've adopted hydroxyappetite as the goal standard. and there are so many safety studies on it. So there's like, what do you guys arguing about over there? Like, anyway, so you just be careful on social media. You can hear anything you want to hear about anything. Someone always is going to have an opinion.

But I'm a big fan of it and I see really big improvements. I will be the first to change my narrative if something comes out. And I've talked to Dr. Burhani about this. We are ready to change our form. formula if we need to. I promise everyone that. I gave you my word. So I just haven't seen that data come through yet. That's great. And I mean, the safest bet is to just get fig because, you know, it's made by people who actually care and I've looked at the data and the information. So everybody can go check them out. Also included show notes, like a link to the website.

Brief question. So is it the case that only the nanohydroxyapatite can actually fit into the tooth matrix and the like the bulk hydrostopat? doesn't do that. The nano. Yeah, the nano. It's really penetrating into the dental tubules because of its size. So there's microhydroxyapotite too. And that can fill maybe more microporosities, but I will tell you, I mean, I don't mean to be given any shade to companies that are choosing to use micro, but I don't find the cap the arrest and remineralization. I'm not, the kids' cavities grow. We end up having to do filling. And then I don't think it's as preventative. So I don't know. And again, we're all different. Things are all

going to work different in different people's bodies. Some people might have better luck with fluoride toothpaste. Some people might have better luck with nano hydroxy. You need to do what's right for you. But if I were to say an overall scoping review of my patient population and I see thousands and thousands and thousands of patients a year and have for 20 years, I'm a huge fan of nanohydroxyop. appetite in what it's doing. So, and, you know, I don't want to put kids to sleep. I don't want to do that. So I love it as a product. And in order to maximize the benefit, is it the case that you should just spit after you brush and not rinse? Yes, correct. That's true even of fluoride, actually. Because there's a duration of action, right? So it's not instantaneous. So, you know, yeah,

you really don't want to be rinsing with water. You're just rinsing all that remineralizing agent down the drain. So, yeah, it takes, it's a mindset shift. And then also, so many people are used to sodium laurel selfie and those foaming agents and the strong burning mint feeling. And if you're, I mean, if you're coming off crest and you're going to move to my toothpaste, it's going to be a big difference for you. This is like if you switch deodorants, you were using like secret and now you're going to use like some sort of coconut crystal. there's going to be a difference. But I urge you to stick with it because what is happening is your microbiome is rebalancing. You've been using all those chemicals in your mouth and you are carpet bombing your mouth every single day and it's going to take a transition period. Most people do the switch pretty easily, but some really struggle with it and they say my teeth feel, they don't feel as clean or I don't feel as clean. But I urge you to stick with it because I can't not use. that type of toothpaste now. I could never use, I can't even use boca now. It's too minty for me. Like, it kind of hurts. So it's a mindset chef, just like everything. But, you know, it may not be

for everyone, but I encourage you to give it to try and stick with it. Don't just expect it to be magic day one. Like give it, give it a couple weeks and then see how you see how you feel. Yeah. And I mean, speaking of the oral microbiome, there was research done like years ago at this point, maybe in like 2016 that showed that basically in order to get the nitric oxide benefit of dietary nitrates that you actually have to have an intact oral microbiome and that using like antiseptic mouthwash before like taking beats or something for athletic performance like you get none of the benefit of that because those those nitrogen containing molecules need to be activated by the oral microbiome and I bet this like similar things could be said about like the crest and those

very like essential oil heavy and like foaming toothpaste because they're also disrupting the microbes and killing them in some cases as well. So I feel like we have to think about like you said earlier, the mouth as like a part of the body. And there are all these connections that are related to our cognition and our cardiovascular system and metabolism and beyond that we're not even realizing that we're impacting when we're using super harsh products in our mouth. That's right. Yes, Exactly. You know so much about this. I love it. Yeah. So there's the oral systemic connection and we know that the microbes in our mouth matter. And specifically nitric oxide is something I'm very interested in. And I'll just leave it at that and stay tuned because I do think many of us are nitric oxide deficient. And it has to do with how we're breathing. You know, mouth breathers tend to be lower nitric oxide because our perinasal sinuses produce nitric oxide. And we do have back to. they tend to hang out in the dorsum of the tongue that reduce nitrate to nitrite and improve nitric oxide levels. And it's hugely important for immune health and cardiovascular health. And there are studies

that show using traditional mouthwashes, that's your listerine and your core hexene. Please do not use that. They don't use that in Europe anymore. They can't believe that we're still prescribing that in the United States. It's just wiping you out. It's wiping you out. I mean, the only time I might recommend that is if you're like intubated in a hospital and there's no way to have oral health, which actually is very important. I'm going on a tangent. So you want it less is more. So these these mouth rinses, they're damaging your oral microbiome and they can impact nitric oxide production too. So nitric oxide is blowing up in oral microbiome research and I would argue in dentistry too. So just kind of stay tuned for that. But knowing your nitric oxide levels,

I think is really important. They have little. test strips that you can get from various companies and, and you can supplement or, you know, through nutrition and diet or trying to get your breathing under control, try to get your microbiome balance. That's ideal. But also, yes, the oral systemic connection. So we know there are certain specific bacteria, P. Gingervalis, F nucleatum, it could go on and on that can lead to and contribute to things like Alzheimer's, dementia, colon cancer, pancreatic cancer, fertility, issues, cardiovascular disease, autoimmune disease, gut health imbalances. I can go on and on, and it's because what happens in the mouth doesn't stay in the mouth. So we think about leaky gut.

There's also leaky gums. If your gums bleed, there is now a entry point for pathogenic bacteria to enter into your system. And not only do the bacteria themselves cause issues, but their cell walls break down and release lipopolysaccharides. They can read like cytokine reactions, chronic inflammation. And, you know, your mouth isn't far from your brain. And we swallow 2,000 times a day. And we're breathing in bacteria. So what is that doing for our lungs? And we saw a lot of patients during the COVID days. And that's why I mentioned the chlorhexating thing. They were intubated and with no oral hygiene. And what were they actually passing from was pneumonia, bacterial pneumonia.

And they were biopsy in oral bacteria from the lungs. We're finding oral bacteria now in various types of cancer. So don't neglect your mouth. I mean, it's hugely important. And we're uncovering more and more about its value and importance. And also if you're suffering from gut issues, you know, and your doctors, maybe you're working with a wonderful functional medicine doctor or naturopath and they're trying to clean up your gut and get you balanced again.

Are they looking at your mouth? You know, because you can get to a certain threshold and point of healing. But if you don't clean this up, you're just re-inoculating your gut all day long with what you're swallowing. So I really want people to start thinking that the mouth is part of the gut. And what's interesting as a functional dentist, I'm looking in the mouth as a way to look into the gut. So does that patient have a lot of oral ulcerations? Do they have like cracks in the corners of their mouth?

Do they have burning tongue? Do their gums look pale? These are ways I can look for nutritional deficiencies, but also oral ulcerations chronically can be a sign of Crohn's disease or celiac disease or something happening downstream in the gut. And I'll also mention something that so many dentists don't speak of, the hypoplastic enamel issue, that can be a sign of missed celiac diagnosis too. So it's all connected. And everything in the body gives us, it tries to tell us, you know, it tries to tell us if we're just, if we're looking and observing.

So, yeah, I mean, the oral microbiome, it's, the oral systemic connection can't be, can't be overstated. And then I think for a lot of adults who maybe struggle with flossing and oral hygiene, I mean, just think about Alzheimer's and dementia. I mean, there's so many studies now coming out with really strong links to pathogens, P. Gen Javala specifically, and leading to amyloid plaques and inflammation in the brain. So, you know, Alzheimer's research is so fascinating to me now. You know, they call it type three diabetes, but I'm really interested to see how these microbes are impacted. that also. Yeah, and I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if like the leakiness in the gums is somehow like seeding that in the brain. And I mean, typically if we see leakiness, let's say the level of the gut brain barrier or the, yeah, the gut barrier, the blood brain barrier, the gums, like probably there's some insults from the environment that are creating all of the like the hyperpremiability in all of those places, which then it makes sense that they're all, you know, linked to each other. And on the nitric oxide front, I think most people don't know that like UVA light is a primary

stimulus of nitric oxide production. And it happens locally. So, aka the more skin you have exposed to UVA light, like midday sun, the more nitric oxide you produce, because it's basically when the UVA light interacts with the skin, it can react with the nitrogen-containing molecules in the skin to free nitric oxide. And so I think that's really important. There's so many things like between the nasal breathing and the oral microbiome and the toxic. Get outside. Get outside. Get outside. Get your skin exposed. Don't wear sunscreen out there. Let's see. Yeah. You know, you're on. beach in Costa Rica maybe put some mineral based on if you're going to burn. But it's the slathering. I know. Slip, slap. And also, like, you're getting exposed to a ton of biodiversity when you're

in natural environments too, which is certainly it's influencing the microbiome throughout the gut. And whenever I talk about the gut, I always refer to that as like mouth to anus. It's not like just the colon, which most people talk about when they're talking about the gut. It's just, that's a whole continuous tube. And it's technically outside of the body. And so we, need to be mindful of that because it's basically dictating what's coming in and what's staying out. With regards to flossing, is there specific types of floss? Do you recommend water pick over actual floss? Do you recommend flossing after you brush to get like the hydroxy appetite between the teeth?

Do you have any like tips about that? Yeah. I do. I like flossing first. So I would look, floss is a really toxic industry with PFO. and microplastic and petroleum-based this and that. And some of them are impregnated with fluoride and plastics and flavorings and all the things. So you just want the simplest, most plain.

And generally, I recommend silk or bamboo. And they're out there. You know, we have one coming out really soon. So stay tuned for that. But, yeah, it's coming. Not everyone can flaws. Like some people just don't have the dexterity or they gags them too much or they're orally sensitive or they just prefer water picking. So I actually switch it up. Floss does do something very

different than water picking. All brushing and flossing is really doing, it's disrupting the biofilm. So what's neat about the mouth is like, yes, it's the entryway into the body. We can see what's happening. It's like this beautiful window to see what a patient's health is like. If a patient isn't healthy here, there's very likely other issues heading, you know, downstream that if they're not noticeable already, they will be. So keeping gums healthy is important in stimulating the gum tissue and removing the biofilm. So it can't sit there long enough to release acid and to leach minerals out of your teeth. This is why we recommend it daily because unfortunately the biofilm comes back. So flossing, it really is removing the biofilm kind of directly on the surfaces

of the teeth. A water pick is going to kind of blast into the sulkis or like down between the gum and the bone, if you will. And as we age, we do lose some bone. And I think water picking is even more important. So it's kind of personal preference. I, again, I mix it up. One night a regular floss, one night I water pick. You know, I kind of switch it. I think a lot of kids think water picking is more fun, especially my sensory kids or my autistic children. Fossing is too much for them. But they tend to think, they like to water pick. It kind of feels good. You can do it in the bathtub, get a mirror and just let them have fun with it. Now, if hygiene is really hard, this is where we really need to double down on our diet

and staying away from those ultra-processed foods too. But yeah, I would say it's kind of personal preference, water pick or floss, silk, bamboo, and then regarding hydroxyapitate, so I think if you don't have insipiancies, you can just floss and brush and spit and call it a day. But if you're trying to heal or rest cavities and sippiancies between, I like to floss brush and then extra stat put a little of the toothpaste on your floss and floss it up in between. So it's that material, that product's really getting up in between there. And then you can spit, but don't rinse. And we're seeing a lot of benefit with that.

And also if you happen to have like an invisible line tray or maybe you have a bleaching tray you throw in every once in a while and maybe you have. sensitivity or you want a little whitening effect, you can put hydroxyapatite in your tray and either sleep with it or leave it in for a few hours. That can really help too. Or some people have like root root carries or root cavities. It can really help in those situations as well. That's great. Yeah, that's what I've been doing because I have a little bit of crowding, kind of a little bit on the top and the bottom. So in any of those really tight spaces, sometimes I'll go back and I'll floss with the toothpaste on it just to kind of get something there and protect it, which of course also goes back to like the whole airway and jaw development like that's what's

creating crowding to begin with and um just everything is really connected in this space is there anything else that you want to talk about while we're here i know we could probably do a whole other podcast like you said on water and other things but maybe for today if there's anything else you want to share just um let me know um i just thank you for having me i think just some of this can get overwhelming to people so it's like what are my biggest take homes um don't under estimate the importance of lifestyle. I mean, these are fans of yours, so they know how important it is to get outside,

get sunlight, get away from the blue light, the junk light, move your body. I also think community decreasing stress, you know, these things are really important. And, you know, followed by nutrition. I mean, if we can get back to eating more ancestrally, I'm trying to learn to enjoy, cooking, go to farmers markets, get your kids in the, you know, the supermarket, picking out a new

vegetable, getting kids in the kitchen, teaching in these life skills, eating as best we can as a family, and trying to stay away from the packaged foods. I mean, they're just not doing as any benefit. And trust me, I know I'm a busy mom and I get the convenience thing and things sneak in, right? But this is, it's little changes have profound impacts and hydration. And then and just maybe switching up your products and just really take your oral hygiene seriously and do see a dentist. I mean, if you have true dental phobia, you know, maybe that's something worth working through with a therapy. I mean, I really think some patients might need therapy because it's true PTSD. But just finding a dentist that resonates with you, I don't think anyone needs to feel they're stuck.

You know, just because you've seen a dentist for 10 years, that doesn't mean you have. have to stay there if they don't if they don't serve you. And there's really wonderful providers out there and more and more coming. So just kind of chip away at some of those more basic things. Prioritize your sleep or circading rhythm, all the things that you talk about. Those will impact your oral health. And you saw that yourself with your own oral health. So don't underestimate how connected it all is, I think is my biggest message. Yeah, that's that's great. And actually, I just realized you wanted to talk about vitamin D. Do you want to touch on it for a couple of minutes or do you have to go? Oh, no, I can. All I was going to say to you is. So I do vitamin D test all my anesthesia kids. So these are the really severely impacted kids. And then I encourage families if their kids just have any cavities. I say, I think you should vitamin D test. And unfortunately, you can't get pediatricians to, you know, get asked for vitamin D. It's ridiculous.

So parents often have to do it on their own. But the kids in my anesthesia operatories, they're often in the single digits. Wow. They're often in the single digits or the teens. I mean, they're all deficient. There's certainly nowhere near optimal. But what's interesting is I do see a lot of like homeschooled kids or outdoor school kids. And so it's just so it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

so hard. It's all just so hard because I want, they, they seem to be implementing some of these lifestyle practices, but yeah, their kids are so deficient. And so what is that? You know, I, and again, this is why I'm so excited you have a lab because is it the microbes, you know, is it, I don't know, is it our gut health? Is it our immune health? Like we're not, is it genetic predispositions that we're now just, they're just exploding through our population. And so I will supplement a lot of those kids. I will tell you, though, once they get optimal, a lot of times they'll stay that way without supplementation.

And so part of my practice, and I think if there is a provider out here listening, it is important to talk about lifestyle, you know, and kids do need to be outside, and they need to be in the dirt, and they need to be exploring and adventuring and not slathered in sunscreen all the time. And I think you will find a lot of health benefits

that way for your children and reduce eczema and allergies and all the things. But if you're if you if you have cavities as an adult listening or your kids do, I mean knowing their test don't guess, I think it's really important and knowing vitamin D status and even micronutrient minerals. It's really important because that could be that could be your answer right there. And I know I do agree with you. We had this talk before like supplementation is an ideal and we don't want to we don't want to we don't want to be soliciting ideas that there's a quick fix. But it's, it's hard for me as a provider to know how to best support the most people. And so I think just being open-minded to that, but at the very least, like knowing your status and vitamin D, that could be a whole other

topic too, that maybe I'll come back. Somebody will really deep dive in it. But if you suffer from oral disease. I mean, I think you should be looking at testing. Test your oral microbiome. Test your gut microbiome. Get some lab work done because it may be something that could be a fairly easy fix, just going for a midday walk in a tank top and, you know, changing your light at night and maybe you need a little supplementation until you get optimum. Yeah, totally. And I mean, we know vitamin D works directly on calcium homeostasis in the body, which is, of course, an important mineral within the enamel and within the bones. And another thing that I think a lot about that Becker is really the one who blew the whistle

on like the non-AVMFs and that's how he got canceled back in the day. And just the role that that could play in creating deficiency. So we know that like non-AVMFs in our environment can directly interact with our surfaces, including our skin. And I've personally seen so many clients in California that are like outside all day and their vitamin D deficient still. Like it's suboptimal. And I can't really explain that outside of.

of, you know, maybe there's some aspect of the electromagnetic environment that's suboptimal, that's preventing that conversion from happening. And if we can modulate that in some way or mitigate it, that, you know, maybe we will see benefits. So I think that's another area that we need to research because a lot of it has been like poo-poot or seen as woo-woo. And like, it doesn't matter. Meanwhile, there's no safety studies proving it's safe. In fact, Becker's work back in like the 60s showed that it indeed was not safe and it could cause cancer in rodents and mammals and it's just like the research got dropped because it was inconvenient and that's not good enough. Not good enough. Yeah. Yeah, I need a deep dive on all of that too. Again, this is like a learning

opportunity for me of an area I need to explore more in, but there's, there's just a lot we're missing. There's a lot we're missing for our patients, you know. There's a couple books here. I'll show everybody. This is Becker's like most famous book, The Body Electric. He also has this other book, cross currents, the perils of electropollution and the promise of electromedicine. Really good one. And then this one, going somewhere by Andrew Marino, Andrew Marino, he was a student in Becker's lab. And he ended up, he got his PhD, but then he went back to get his law degree to become a lawyer to litigate the cases with Becker because he was being attacked. And they were like literally in court cases after court cases. And so he basically, this is an expose of his experience in the lab and how basically this

research was being shut down by the powers that be because of its inconvenience. And he was essentially blowing the whistle about that in that book as well. So I think it's really great reading, very illuminating. And there's a ton that we can do also to like mitigate our exposures. I mean, the inverse square law is the first thing, like just reducing your proximity to the source. That's like the biggest thing that you can do, whether it's, you know, not putting a Wi-Fi router in a room you spend a lot of time in or turning your Wi-Fi off at night, not keeping your cell phone on your body, not using your laptop on your actual lap. Then there can be bigger issues like, let's say a cell tower was built right next to your house. And I know somebody

whose health completely went to shit after that happened to them and they ended up having to move. And they got better in that environment. There are meters you can buy online also to test the electromagnetic pollution in the environment. So there's lots of ways to assess that and mitigate that kind of a stress. But I think it's something that we absolutely have to look at. It's probably going to be very important. I could not agree more. I could not agree more. We're messing with our environment in ways that we don't have any understanding of the impacts whatsoever. So, and just how things interact. I mean, there's so many variables at hand. So I respect you and appreciate you for speaking about it. I'm going to check out that book. I love a good expose. Oh, yeah. There's

lots of tea spilled in that book. And I also appreciate you so much for coming on. This was a really fun conversation. I think we probably could have gone for another like two hours easily. So we should probably move you back on. I'll give and I'll give everyone a code for the for the toothpaste if they want. You can use Stacy 15. S-T-A-C-I-15. If you want to check it out. I appreciate the support and the feedback. And anyway, thank you, Alexis, for having me on. I hope we can do it again soon. Yeah, we will. And I'll put the code and the links and everything in the show notes so people can find you, your Instagram, your products. And thank you so much for coming up. this was so fun. Thank you.