Undoctrinate Yourself - #45 Dr. Jack Kruse and Dr. Scott Zimmerman

Episode Date: April 26, 2026

In this ~3-hour discussion, I mediated a conversation between neurosurgeon and quantum clinician Dr. Jack Kruse and engineer & optics whiz Scott Zimmerman, discussing the impacts of light on (and in) the human body and the criminality of banning incandescent bulbs in favor of "energy efficient" lighting. The slides we shared on screen are included as an attachment below. Enjoy!Follow Scott on LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-zimmerman-29b7b59/Follow Jack on X:www.x.com/drjackkruseFollow Jack on IG:⁠www.instagram.com/drjackkruse⁠Follow Jack on Patreon: ⁠https://www.patreon.com/c/DrJackKruse?vanity=DrJackKruseFollow Dr. Alexis on Instagram ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@dralexisjazmyn⁠⁠:https://www.instagram.com/dralexisjaz...Follow Dr. Alexis on X @dralexisjazmyn:https://x.com/dralexisjazmynSupport the podcast on Patreon:https://www.patreon.com/c/UndoctrinateYourselfPodcast/homeJoin QuantumU:https://dralexisjazmyn.thinkific.com/courses/quantumuJoin ⁠The Incubator⁠ Book Club and Think Tank:https://dralexisjazmyn.thinkific.com/courses/theincubator

Hello everyone. Welcome back to Undoctrinate Yourself. Today I have a very exciting podcast. This is actually the first like trio podcast that I've hosted on the show, which is exciting. And it's with kind of two of the best people I could imagine actually. We have Scott Zimmerman and Dr. Jack Cruz, both of which have been on the podcast before. And this is their first time connecting. So I'm really excited because Scott is just an absolute expert in optics and has been doing really cool work with Bob Fosbury, who's an astrobiologist. as well as Glenn Jeffrey. And we've talked about his recent study, especially with the 670 nanometer light affecting blood glucose levels after 15 minutes of exposure, just very dramatic. Like 30%. I've referenced the study so many times on podcasts. And so we're in really good company here. And I thought we would start by passing the mic over to Scott to talk a little bit about some of the recent developments that he's been working on, both solo and in combination with Glenn and Bob. and then we also have some graphics that I think would be fun to pull up that's got sent over.

So maybe we can also share screen. If you're watching on video, you can, you know, check out some of these graphs that Scott sent to kind of follow along. But I guess with that, do you want to take it away for a brief introduction of what you've been up to? And just let me know when you want me to share the slides. Okay. Again, Scott Zimmerman, my background is optical engineering. I've spent a lot the last several years looking at the light, how light propagates in the body, and finding some amazing structural things that the body does to take advantage of sunlight.

And I've been trying to get that translated into what we need to do for our indoor environment because it's becoming clear based on the work that we're showing that there's a lot of negative impact going on right now with artificial lighting, both during the day and at night, and we're disconnecting from a lot of nature. So most of my work has been associated with trying to actually understand how the body uses sunlight. And it's actually very surprising that we didn't understand more about this area before. And you have to move from a realm of two-dimensional to three-dimensional, because light penetrates into the body. And maybe that'd be a good place to pull up that one slide by Bob to give, if he could, Alexis.

Absolutely. So I'll share my screen. Okay, I'll just make a comment on the first one. So what's been going on is we've had the largest reduction in solar exposure in human history over the last 100 or so years. And it's not just that the amount of light we're getting, we've been altering. the spectrum. So this is just a quick little graph that shows you what sunlight looks like as far as the spectral content. And then when we went to incandescent, we got rid of some of the visible and UV, but we increased the amount of near infrared and infrared. And then what happened

is when fluorescence came along, all of a sudden we chopped off 90% of the solar spectrum. But you still came home to an incandescent bulb to read to your children. So it was okay, maybe. but then what's on on is that government has started mandating the use of what I would call non-thermal emitters, narrow-band, visible-only emitters to save some energy. And I would argue at this point that that was a huge mistake. And I hope that, you know, Jack might agree or disagree, but the change has been thing. So then if you drop down, so I've been working a lot with Bob Fosbury and Grim, Glenn Deffreys. And, you know, if you look at the literature, all the literature, most of the

literature sits there and says that the light doesn't penetrate more than a millimeter into the body. They don't understand how you actually measure a scattering volume. And I keep on saying, it's like a comparison. If you take an ice, clear ice cube, shine a green laser through it to a detector on the other side. You get, other than the vernell losses, you get all the light go into detector. Take that same cube and make it snow and shine that laser into it and all of a sudden the detector drops off dramatically. But the light's still there. It's wandering around. And so that's if you really believe Bob's pictures, and this is an 850 nanometer, you basically are stuck with the fact that all those, all that data, all those papers that claim one millimeter are just wrong.

And you can't go take a sheephead and shine a laser through it and say, oh, it's only getting 4%. It's just not how it works. Basically, in these lower, in these low absorption, high scatter, or low absorption, higher scatter volumes, you have to look at it as the multiple bounces that are going on around. And it actually increases the time the photons, say, with, the body. So anyway, that's kind of where we're at. And, you know, what happened is, is that Glenn Jeffries has been doing a lot of work over the years, looking at how sunlight increases longevity and reduces aging and everything from bees to flies to whatever. And he's finally got it up to the point that he's doing it on humans. And lo and behold, what he finds,

you find that sunlight has a radical effect or a huge effect. even small amounts, you know, bear in mind to give you a perspective on Glenn's work, you know, sunlight can put up to 30 megajoules into the body every day. Glenn is using 28 kilojoules and doing it for 15 minutes and seeing a biologic change in glucose levels, but more importantly, an increase in CO2 levels. And he's also showing that it extends on out. Now we're starting to look at other things like eye response and color. contrast and he's finding all these other effects of sunlight.

So unfortunately, I don't know why, but sunlight is always the last on the list. They talk about food. They talk about, you know, so maybe Jack can answer to that from the standpoint of, it's just really frustrating that we focus on everything but sunlight in defining health. And I think that there's, it was a huge mistake. So I'll let you talk, Jack. It's not the biggest mistake, though. That's the crazy part of this story that since you're a photonics guy, the part of the story that really hasn't been talked about is actually the UPEs, the bio photons that are created inside.

Why? Because the argument that you've put forth here, which I don't think anybody who will listen to this who's interested, is going to argue it is the effect of sunlight on the system. That brings in probably the big ideas in physics of Ilya Pyrogyne, that it's a dissipative system, it's a bag of fluid that you pump light into, light gets stored at the electronic and vibrational levels. I don't think anybody who follows Alexis or myself is going to have a problem with that. But when you actually talk about the physics that's involved there, especially the optics, you're basically taking sunlight that's 93 million miles away coming to the surface. And if you really think about it, those photons really don't have a strong power.

Why? Because as you know, as a light guy, that the inverse square law dictates all of that interaction. The interesting thing, to me, the most interesting thing and the one thing that nobody's talking about, pretty much accept me for 20 years, is that when you shrink the scale of light, after the light is at the electronic and vibrational level, that these UPEs are released and these UPEs do something radically different than what your slide showed. We all know that sunlight needs full spectrum light between 250 and 3,100.

That's where the longevity story comes. But when you actually look inside the body, you look inside the cells, you start to find out there's a spectral frequency of biophotons that are released that are extremely important. I just started to get into this with, you know, another PhD like Alexis, Nick Chacombs, when I explained to him the basics about hemoglobin and how this is linked to the great oxygenation event. But there's there's a big, big story here that biology is really missed. that as you shrink the scale with light, photons actually become stronger. And this is something that physicists have spent a lot of time on in CERN,

where they're looking at the high end, they have to use computer modeling. But nobody's looking at the low end, and no one realizes, you know, some of the things that are published in the literature. For example, if you take cyanide bound, to the intermontocondyl membrane. Everybody knows what it does, that it basically kills you, but what few people realize is that

you can use laser light to remove cyanide from the intermodicondicondrial membrane, which brings up the point that you mentioned a little while ago about a sheep's head and shining a laser light threat. But I don't think that

biologists and physicists have realized that as you shrink the scale of light, and light is emitted from the electronic or vibrational level, you actually can do things with those biophotons, even though they're small. They're more powerful as long as they're targeted and they're close to their target.

You can actually create not monochromatic light, but light that's extremely powerful, that's able to do things to chromophores and different proteins in the body. To me, that truly is, the edge of where we are. To be honest with you, hopefully you're not upset with me,

either one of you. I mean, to me, this is subtle science what you're already talking about. I don't even question it anymore, so I could care less. But what I really care about

is that people understand that we've got to absorb this sunlight to get it into the system. But then I think the bigger questions that nobody wants to talk about, like why is the VDR receptor, you know, so populated in the human gut? Like, that's not a sunlight story. How come we're not talking about that?

And it turns out the reason why I think that's a big issue, you know, in 1900, the 37th leading cause of cancer in humans was colon cancer. Today it's number two. And everybody knows there's a link between the vitamin D. receptor and this colon cancer link. The stuff that we're talking about, getting your colon in the sun, I mean, when you think about that, because you know that UV light doesn't penetrate, that's a story that biology still has not answered. And they don't really understand that the light outside in and the light inside out is a totally different story. I tried to bring that up

when I did the Euberman-Rubin podcast two years ago. And I have to tell you the fact that, you know, it fell on another PhD deaf ears, kind of, kind of surprised me. So I guess what I would say, I totally agree with your slides, but I'm going to be honest with you, that's not what fascinates me anymore.

That, to me, is settled science. Everybody knows that sunlight does this, but not everybody really understands that the light inside of us is actually more fascinating and does more unusual things that explains some of the things that, you know, in Alexis's textbooks that when she got her PhD at the Rabinowitz lab, like she still doesn't understand fundamentally, you know, the story of hemoglobin. The story of why SOD and Cattelace really work and why the intermitonectrine doesn't have DHA on it, but every single other membrane does, I'll give you another one, just to, you know, throw things out there because I am trying to be extremely provocative. I want you to think about the human gut. You know, Scott, that the human gut is a big tube that goes from our mouth to our asshole. and that gut is not exposed to light yet as a filament in our light bulb, it's got the VDR

receptor in it tremendously. And not like that, there's a change in the VDR receptor between the lower esophageal sphincter and your anus. And there's another change. The stuff that's present in the stomach, those nerves that innervate there are more myelinated, the amount of bacteria that's present in the stomach is 10 to the 1. But yet the stuff that's in the colon is 10 to the 14th. And the stuff that goes on in the colon is fermentation, not TCA cycle.

So guess what? There's another story here that our gut, the filament of the light bulb, mimics exactly what happened in our evolutionary history with the GOE. The GOE, a story 2.4 billion years ago when light was really impacting the two domains on this planet, which is bacteria and archaea, before we come on the stage, that story is found actually in the human anatomy of the gut. And the craziest part of the story, the myelination of the interic plexus, where the most common part of the VDR receptor is happens to be in the most anaerobic, hypoxic environment of the gut. And here's the other crazy anatomical thing that I don't think a lot of people know. The interic plexus of the colon is less myelinated and has a higher mitochondrial density.

So if you think about the slide that you just put up, and you think about the paper that you did about glucose metabolism and red light, at some level, you got to start to ask yourself this question, because I'm going to tie this in a nice bow back to what you said to me. We know what the sun does on the surface, but do we know what prokaryotes are capable of doing what light on the inside of our gut? And how that light may mimic or may be different than the light that the sun provides to our integument. And why is it that things that should not be where it is if we have the dermatology and ophthalmology sense, namely the VDR receptor?

Why is it more prominent from the lower esophageal sphincter to the anus? Does this somehow explain why, if you believe Darwin, which I've clearly said in multiple podcast, I don't, because small little mutations should lead to changes. Well, how did we go from 37th and colon cancer deaths to number two in 125 years when we innovated Tesla's AC power grid and we plugged things into it, which simulates your actual slide because one of the things that you said that really got me thinking about where I was going to take you was you said and I'm going to you can correct me if I'm wrong you said this is the greatest reduction in quantum yield that humans have ever faced and I completely agree with that statement

even I think Alexis chimed in so yeah I think Jack would agree with that but there's there's a bigger story here. We need to is that one of the big reductions in quantum yield that happened in our evolutionary history. And when I say R, I'm not talking about human, I'm talking eukaryotes now, happened not only at the Cambrian explosion, but also

happened at the KT event. And the crazy thing is the story that I just shared with you a little bit. Where my fascination is, actually links to those two events. Why? Because they're also quantum yield events, meaning the Cambrian explosion. We go from two domains to three domains, and we have 32 files show up overnight. And what do we know about G-class stars? You said you're working with a guy that works in cosmology. Well, sit him down and ask him this question.

What does he know about G-class stars? G-class stars. Hey, Jack. Yeah. Yeah. Can we back up just a little bit? I know that you do this, and it's part of how you go. But first off, I got into the stuff I was doing because optics is my field.

And what you find is that a lot of what you're saying doesn't pan out when you look at the optics. Okay? From the standpoint of the, while I don't doubt that there is a possibility of generating bio photons, they tend to be on the order of 100 photons per second per centimeter squared, making them about eight orders of magnitude. irrelevant compared to everything else. Now, I'm not going to argue with you about whether or not, you know, there are blue photons and whether or not there's some magical way that they're bouncing around. But optically, 200 nanometers isn't going very far in the body because it's going to be absorbed very strongly. So I guess I'm just saying that, you know, I understand you're over on the

blue side. I'm over on the near infrared side. But if we could go down through some of the stuff we've found, I think you're going to see that what you're trying to get, I know you want to have this blue component inside the body filling us up. But we haven't even got to the point that we're looking at how the body is using the solar spectrum that is external to the body yet. And that's what I'm trying to do. And quite honestly, you know, if you go down, yeah, Alexis, can you go down to the next side? One of the things that I think you, you, you might find fascinating is that if you actually do look at the solar spectrum, and believe me, you know, you've gone down to the next slide.

So, or not that one more. Okay. Okay. So this is some of the work that Bob and I've been doing looking at what is going on in the solar spectrum. And one of the problems has been is that everybody keeps on looking at sunlight in a particular way. So I'm sorry, go back to the one above it. Okay.

So on the graph on the left is what everybody thinks of what this solar spectrum is. You know, you see this, oh, it's all this energy is in the visible portion. And by the time you get into the near infrared, nothing's going on. And the reality is that's not the case. If you look at it from the standpoint of the mitochondria and what the body actually wants to see, If you do it in what the same, we are a solar collector. And if you go and look at how people look at sunlight in the solar collector community, doing solar cells, things of that nature, you'll see that they do everything in electron bolt.

And what if you do change over to the spectrum into electron bolt, you can get the graph on the right, which is actually what a more illustrative of what the body cares about. And what it shows is that the near-infrared component and the infrared is actually much more important to the body than blue or violet or any of these other things because they tend to be very high photon energy. They can't go very far in the body because they get absorbed very strongly. Versus if you get into the near-infrared or into the infrared, you have a much different optical characteristic and we are much more the same. And so again, next slide to I address Jack's issue about stars, our sunlight, it turns out that there is what is called the hydrogen minus opacity window in sunlight. And it is what actually gives the body, or what it causes is the fact that those photons between about 1.5 eb down to 0.25E,

are actually can come deep from deeper in the sun so you get an actual increase over what people think is going on. This is the region where the body does most in the energy levels, the body does most of its biological processes. So it turns out that the body has apt to optimize over billions of years to you take advantage of this spike in the infrared in the infrared portion of the spectrum. and it lines up with a lot of the other things. And you can see the difference in how we look as a function of energy levels in the pictures below.

And so, you know, by the time you get into the area where this is going on, the body is strongly absorbing. It happens to be the region where the highest photon density occurred. So I totally disagree with Jack on his premise that we know what's going on here. Nobody knows this stuff. this is just coming out now and if you don't take it into account then you're missing the majority of the thing so if you go drop down to the next slide

so what appears to be going on is we are basically designed to do quantum tunneling multiple hopping because the problem is if you try and jump a stream in one hop it could take you days or you can never get there if you put a bunch of stepping stones which is what is actually going on in the mitochondria

with the different protein you can rapidly move that change that time constant to milliseconds, which is actually what the ETC needs in order to generate the ATP that it's generating. Again, if you go on down to the next slide. So we basically are providing with sunlight, we provide the ability for those electrons in the ETC chain to more efficiently. That is exactly what Glenn's experiment shows. If you put longer wavelengths in contact with the body or into the body,

we are making the ETC more efficient. And the reason is, is because we are doing what they call photon-assisted quantum tunneling. So that is why Glenn's experiment is so important and followed up with some of the others that he's doing. We're starting to understand that the portions of the spectrum that we thought were unimportant are actually the most important part of what's going on. And while I do not disagree, I do not disagree that there may be photons being generated, it's like the same thing with a reactive oxygen species.

The only reactionation species that can stick around long enough to be really effective is hydrogen peroxide. All the other reactive auction species have very short half-lifes, so they can't do anything. If you drop one down to the next slide, So what you get is you get the normal ability to tunnel across a barrier. If you look at the ATC or the various papers out there, you know, we typically are talking about a barrier of a few 10 angstroms at most,

and we're popping the electron across it. The more we do, if you do the quantum tunneling, which is in the green, you can extend that. And then if you're adding sunlight, stats is allowing us to increase it. It's not that the ATP, the sunlight is directly making ATP. Sunlight is basically allowing the electrons to move more efficiently and more rapidly down. The electron transport chain to then generate. And they also are providing the same problem is on the proton side because they're 2,000 times heavier.

They basically can't get back once they've been pushed across the membrane. And the last, I'll just get through these real. quick. And, you know, and Bob, to your point, no, you're wrong. There are not, we do not understand what's going on on the optics in any way, shape, or form. To my knowledge, this is the first graph where we show that actually at night in the twilight, it is the blue and the cyan that is being used to actually do the circadian response. So there's lots of things to learn. I'm not disagreeing with you on any of it. And I think we're actually trying to get to the same point.

But to say that we understand what's going on with how sunlight is propagating about it is an absolute false statement. And, you know, I just can't agree with it. Yeah, well, I would disagree with you. I think what you're doing is great. But I think this is a lot of the same work that Tina grew is already done. We know that sunlight is. is important. We know what the optical density is. We actually know that the hydrogen spectrum is the reason why evolution picked some of the things that are present on the intermidiocondrial membrane. So I don't, I don't find this shocking at all. I'm glad that you guys have done the work. But I don't think that that's going to be the thing that moves the needle. I think a lot of people understand that red light penetrates, that red light. gets to every mitochondria.

I think also people understand quantum tunnel. I think the, I guess the bigger framework is how does it all fit with the stuff that's printed in, in our biochemistry books? How does it fit with what Alexis learned and what I learned in medical school? To me, that's actually where the rubber meets the road.

Well, I guess I don't understand what, you know, we've got, you're talking about, I guess my problem is, is that we have these effects that are going on. We know that we're degrading. And the one variable that we have changed, we didn't change blue, we brought blue up. We didn't change. We got rid of 90% of the solar spectrum. And I'm sorry, Faru, she wanted to call it cytochrome C or whatever. That's not right.

And what we're showing is, is that there. is another methodology that doesn't require a chromopore. It is just a simple physical effect or physics effect. And quantum tunneling via photon assisting is a well-known process. I agree. But it's not been used in the terms of the ETC, as far as I know. Paul, do you know about the work that Jim L. Kalili is doing over at Surrey University?

Because he's talked about this for 15 years. Now, he's not generated a graph like you have, but he certainly has talked about these effects, about photon assistance and quantum tunneling. Do I believe that he's actually linked it to sunlight? Probably not. But I don't think the leap between his work and Tina Carew is, how shall we say, a quantum leap for people that understand this science.

I think what you're saying is that you guys have generated these pitchers, there's nothing about these pitchers that I would disagree with at all. The point that I'm trying to make you is you said something that I think, that you said that was axiomatic that we don't know this. I think we do know this. The thing is we don't know how it fits within the framework of truly what's happening inside the body. That I would agree with you.

but to say that we don't understand that sunlight links to longevity, I think that's pretty disingenuous, especially with some of the work that I've done, some of the work that even some of the biophysicists have done. So I don't know why. Well, I'll put it this way. I mean, Jack, I mean, come on. If you look at the literature,

there is no discussion of the effect of sunlight on my, mitochondria, almost zero. I mean, I'm sorry. It's just not there. And if you talk to someone who spent four, we just was talking with someone spent 40 years doing mitochondria. And we were showing how the effect of the light, you know, his microscope was altering the results he was getting. You know, I'm sorry. That's not something that people are really looking at. It's like the issue with blue blockers. It's like the issue with, as I said, the, the, the, the, the, the PM people. They're all trying to bring in and come up with a real reason or what's really going on. I agree. We don't understand all of it. But the idea that there is some, everybody would agree with your statement that, you know, maybe you've been saying it, but people aren't paying any attention to it is the problem. And all I'm trying to do is say, here's what we're getting and here's the graphs that are showing what is, here's the data that's showing what's going. on. And so you're giving the data behind the obvious statement that's present at the 28th

latitude where the sphinx is sitting. Look to the AM sunlight. Be grounded. That story is, look, Photonics is an ancient story. I would agree with you 100%. That centralized science has probably ignored that for too long. But I think there's pretty good evidence in the biophysics literature that sunlight has a huge impact on biology. I don't think that that is shocking at all. I think anybody could pick up Marino's book, Hamlin's book, Caru's work, and actually see that. We know that that light has to come from the sun,

but we also know that the light that's inside of us, that you've really not spent a lot of time studying because when I heard your critique of what I said, you said that you think that they make little light, you know, that the intensity is not there. Well, you need to realize when you're at a nano and at a level, those things that are sparse actually really do matter because of the inverse square law. So I would say to you, I think that you've cemented what a lot of people have believed for the last 2,500 years. That I'm not going to argue with you about. But to say that this was not known until these slides were developed, I just think that's a little bit disingenuous. I don't think I just said that.

I said we're putting the data out there and we're showing that there are other ways to look at this. And I'm not saying one of the first things I did when I got started in this area is I went down and talked to Hamlin. And I walked away from that meeting saying, but wait a minute, the levels that you're using and the wavelength ranges you're using are what we used to get in a well-lit incandescent room. Okay? That's not showing that they understood what was going on. And I'm sorry, I totally disagree with you. I agree with you on that. You remember what I said to you in the beginning when we talked.

I said that the light from outside in, remember what Hamlin is, if you want to call him an expert, he's an expert in PBM, which is generated through, you know, LEDs. LEDs is not equivalent to the sun. I think you and I both would agree with that. I don't think there's any argument from that at all. But what's Hamlin's play here? Hamlin's play is that he sits in a centralized ivory tower. You know, he's created a lot of books.

He's created a lot of papers. Those papers have linked the effect of red light to mitochondrial function. Doesn't mean that red light from a PBM device is something that I'm going to get behind. I mean, I can tell you this as a clinician in this space. There's a reason I don't push any red lights from LEDs. Why? Because the sun is irreplaceable. That is something I've said for 20 years.

It's not even controversial for me to say that to you. So I guess where I'm pushing back on you, for me, what you're saying to me, I already get it. I get it loud and clear. And I also know that Hamlin is not the be all end all. Do I think, however, that there's other people in the biophysics space that have pointed these things out? Yeah. And do I appreciate that you're just. generating data from the sun about red light.

No question about it. You're never going to get pushed back from me on that at all. Okay. Well, I mean, I think that I don't think we're that far apart from the standpoint of, I disagree with you totally as far as whether or not it's well understood in the literature. If it is, if it's out there, it's basically been ignored. That I agree with, 100%. Yeah.

And that's kind of what I have the frustration. I mean, I'm an engineer. I'm trying to make products that can actually improve health. When I look at it, there was no, I mean, other than PBM guys that are shining some red light for 15 minutes, that's, you know, that's one aspect of somebody trying to fix a problem. But what I was trying, what we do is we basically try and make light sources that cover the infulled spectrum all the way from 200 out to about 4.3. thousand nanometers. That's what we do. And I was trying to understand how does the body use all those different wavelengths? That is not in Peru. That is not what's going on as far as I can do.

You know that right. I know that you know about John Ott's work. No. Oh, John Ott. Yeah, I know about John Ops work. And the point was is that he didn't really understand what it was doing. He made some really great physical. You know, you're right. You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. about that, but what I'm trying to say to you is remember where am I pushed back. To say that we don't know about it, we know about it. John Ott's work is absolutely shocking. And when you consider that it was done in the 1960s, when Alan Frye is active, when Becker is active, John Ott's work has been completely pushed to the side. He even tried. Totally agree. He tried to give it to medicine. He tried to give it to Pfizer. He tried to

try to give it to Big Farm and what did they do with it? They put it aside because they realized what it meant. Well, I would argue, I would argue that that is true to some extent. But also the problem was, is that Ott really didn't have a mechanism that he could go and shake it, you know, say what is going on. You know, and I don't think the PBM really people have a good mechanism either. Let me, let me push back a little bit here. I kind of agree with what you're saying, but you're basically telling the audience that the mechanism is critical in order to have acceptance. And I'm going to remind you, since you're an optics guy, about the story between Einstein and Milliken.

Einstein gave the world the solution to the ultraviolet catastrophe in 1905. Nobody believed him for a really long time in the photoelectric effect. And what did the United States do? They hired a guy named George Milliken. who's a lot like you to go prove that the photoelectric effect give us data that it actually really worked and they wound up giving him a Nobel Prize before they gave it to Einstein. So here's my point about that. I don't think the mechanism is as important as you do because we got the mechanism in the

photoelectric effect for UV light before we actually got the hard data. and I don't think that that, I don't think Milliken's Nobel Prize changed anything at all with respect to light. So I'm going to tell you, I don't think changing the mechanism now with infrared light and things that we know happen

between cytokromone and the ATPAs is going to change the mix. Where I do agree 100% with you is that do we need lighting that John Ott was the first person that I know of that actually made full scope lighting, that he actually brought this to people's attention and he brought it to people who should have done something with it, which was in medicine,

specifically dermatology, optimology, and big pharma. And what did they do? They buried it. And he went the next level. He then took it to GE. Who were the people who were making these light bulbs that were creating a huge problem? What did they do? They buried his work. So again, I know the history in and out, okay? And that's the reason I'm pushing back hard here. I think what you're doing is great. But I'm going to tell you, do we need full spectrum lighting? Yes.

But I'm going to say something that I think you'll agree with. You may not like it, but I'm going to say it. There will be no light source ever created on Earth that mimics the sun. because the way the sun creates its light, it's impossible to recreate on Earth. Are you talking about intensity level or spectrum? Well, the spectrum's not really important. I'm talking about how we create light from atoms.

I'm talking about the front offer lines. Whether the sun is a gaseous fusion model or an electric model, whatever you believe, that's immaterial. The one thing that we know is those light transitions that come off those atoms are the key. And the fact that they're unpolarized and they come to us in the unpolarized state. Actually, it's almost impossible

for us to come up with something on Earth that mimics full-spectrum light between 250 and 3,100. Now, do I think where you're aiming, what your target is, what you're trying to do, is to give us better sources than what? The government is allowing us to have since they've got rid of the incandescent and gone to LED and fluorescence.

Absolutely. Do I think that should be a huge target? Do I think that you and your partners are going to be able to improve on what Hamlin is an expert on? Or what the PBM guys are currently shilling to people out there. No question about it. I'm not going to argue with you there. But when we talk about the mechanism, I don't think God needed a mechanism to actually explain this because why his observational science was absolutely brilliant. The problem was it was completely ignored by the people who are incentivized to ignore it.

And I think when you put the mechanism in the literature as you seem like you're wanting to do, you seem. that you seem to believe, and this may be not fair for me to put on you, that once the mechanism is in the literature that everybody's going to run to you with open arms, I totally disagree. Why? Because what you're proposing and what I've already proposed for 20 years is that light is better than drugs because it has no side effect. And that's going to be really disruptive for the people who are controlling the game right now. That, I think, is the big issue and that's the reason why I've always pushed people towards the sun not towards LED lights I agree what I'm telling you though is that people in general need to get what we

are getting to the point of showing that I didn't show other than some videos is is that there's a harm associated with what we're doing now and that's the difference that I think you're missing is that the harm the we have now have all these issues associated there people are trying to assign to ultra-processed food but sunlight and light in particular

is more powerful than that effect in my opinion you know I don't think you know my work that because guess what that's exactly what I've been saying for I'm agreeing with you I'm not arguing it but you're not getting that point across and the missing element in my opinion is that we have not shown that there is a negative effect when they made the transition to LEDs and then all of a sudden there were all these other issues that start come to some of the myopia the autism seeing those things that are being tied in with this

that case was not made that argument was not made there's a big difference to and I would argue that that's kind of what we're seeing there's a big difference through mom and dad believing and strongly having evidence that what they're doing with LEDs is harming their child. I wasn't having to deal with that way back when. He didn't have that element to pull in. While he did show that there were some benefits, especially some of his videos of children, of changing. Number one, he didn't give them true full spectrum.

He gave them sort of full spectrum. number two, there wasn't really this crisis, and I believe it to be a crisis, that we've created this artificial environment now that is harmful to the children that we're trying to raise, and that is so much different than what was done before. GE didn't have to do any change because most people were buying an incandescent bulb anyway. But now we're mandating, the governments are mandating, the exposure, to only visible light of a very narrow con with a high level of blue to a yellow ratio, that they are causing a harm.

That's a much different situation to be in. And I understand, I totally agree with you that what you've been saying, I agree with 90% of it. I'm not too big on the bio photons, but hey, the bottom line is that, you know, right now we're coming to a point where we are causing. harm. And you look at... I don't think anybody would disagree with that. I think everybody would disagree with that. Look at the government what the government's done. I'm not talking about the government. The government is doing that because it's by design. The government needs people to be

compliant, to be obedient idiots. I mean, that's where you and I think, I think that's where you and I, I think the big differences here is what you just said. You're an engineer. You're looking at this straight from the biology side. I don't think you really understand who Alan Fry was, who Becker was, why DARP is in this game, why the DOD has done what they did, why did Biden and Obama change the rules? Dude, this is a big story. I totally agree with you. But to say that people don't know that, to say that we don't have the mechanism about how blue light damages, that mechanism has been in the literature literally for 10 years. The problem is nobody gives two fucks. And the reason they don't give two

fucks is because they're using it. They're incentivized to use it. And that includes not only the government, but it includes big farm. That's the real problem. And, you know, I'm going to tell you, keep doing what you're doing. But if you think publishing

the mechanism is somehow going to change the game, oh, I don't. Not at all. Okay. Well, I mean, I think it's great that we can agree to disagree. I mean, the point is that, you know, our focus is trying to get to the point that we actually prove that there is a negative consequence associated with removing 90% of the solar spectrum. We agree with that. The literature can be said to agree with it, but the point is, is that they're still doing it. And the

point is that we need some way to get them to quit doing what they're doing. That's why we just went in with a petition to try and actually change the DOE rules to get rid of the 120,000. Lumen per Watt requirement. If we do nothing, if we just say, oh, we know this stuff, they're going to do what they're going to do. And they're going to do something really dumb. And that's the problem I have with the position you're taking. I got what you're saying.

I just would say to you that you are giving the government credit that I have subtracted from them 20 years ago. It's not dumb. It's nefarious, you're saying. Right. It's nefarious. And Scott, I'm just telling you, because I don't think this is where Lexus wants the podcast to go. I'm happy either way.

Let's stick to the science. But I'm going to tell you that I think that you're being really naive to not understand who and why this is happening. I think here's the point that I would make to you. This is the point that I made when I was on the podcast with Danny Jones, Mary Talley Bowden, and Callie. I said, look, I could give two shits about processed foods. The reason why, because when you go to the supermarket, you don't have to buy fruit loops and you don't have to buy red dye number seven. I'm going to tell you that I'm going to make the same argument with light. I've never done this in a podcast, but I'm going to tell you, I think this podcast talking to you that here's a perfect example.

All three of us have said we are not going to go in DOD light because we're all outside in the Sunday. In other words, we can make an active determination to go out in the sun. Now, where it gets really problematic is, as you know, when people have to go to work or drop their kids off at school for eight to ten hours a day. Or, you're mandated to be inside or technologies brings us inside. Now, the government knows this, and they're actively using this. And this is the point that I would make to you why when you dismissed Ott, why it kind of visceral bothers me. The Sarasota

school experiment actually lays this case out directly. What did Ot really do? He showed in the 1970s that all you have to do is open the goddamn windows to make bad behavior go away. And the problem is GE

buried all of that information because why? If people really understood that light can change our biology and change our behavior that are people eventually going to ask the question that Tina Carew asked, is red light a functional drug equivalent? And the answer is it is.

Now, where you and I probably would agree, and where Hamlin and maybe Tina wouldn't agree, is that they look at the red LED spectrum that people are selling in PBM as probably the be all end all. That's like the answer to what the DOD is doing. No, I disagree with that. I think that there's no replacement for sunlight. That's the reason why, no matter what you do,

and I may support what you do because people will have to work. People will have to go to school. People will have to go see their doctors in some kind of lit environment. I'm completely okay with somebody putting those on the market. I want to be very clear to everybody listening to this. I think we need different. spectrum bulbs that mimic the company that bought built in Florida because of his experiments.

But it was also eliminated by the government. It's never persisted after 1977 through 1980. Nobody picked it up. And the reason it wasn't picked up wasn't because it was a good idea is because it challenged the people in power. That's the real issue here. and if you tell me, which is what I'm hearing, that Jack, we're going to take and pick the torch back up for a lot,

and we're going to create better light bulbs than even he had. Why? Because our technology is better. Dude, I'm all about that. I'm never going to argue with you. One iota, but I'm still going to tell you, just like I tell the fucking idiots that sell the red lights. There is no alternative to sunlight.

and there never will be. And that is my, you know, come to Jesus' message to everybody that you need to be in the sun. So the more times you spend inside the electric power of Clint and Prince Life, is the more time you need to be doing this, what we're doing right now on this podcast.

I agree. I agree totally. We do as our fundamental statement that we start out every conversation with any customer, is that we're trying to get them to go outside. But the problem is, is that you have to fight the dermatologists. You have to fight a lot of the medical community that just poofos what you're talking about. That's why, I mean, you say that it's well known. Roger Seahult is basically, Roger Seahult, basically taking

patients out and putting them in the sunlight for 20 minutes and having dramatic effects. It's been known since forever in Africa. You bring this to the patient out, put them in the sun, take them back. It's kind of like we've actually gone as far the opposite direction that we could go to actually get to where we are now. I mean, from what nature does, you know, the design of hospitals. You're not going to argue with me. You're not going to get an argument for me, but you have to remember, Roger is a younger

doctor. I've been at this game way fucking longer than him. And I'm a neurosurgeon. I would take my patients outside after I operated on them and make them recover outside. So I agree. I agree. Let me just tell you. There's a lot of people out there that know this is the truth. And let me explain something to you. Just how well known disinformation is, because I got to push back on you because I think you've been sold an idea that we don't know. It's been buried. Let me explain. explain something. Do you know why surgeons operate between almost start their cases at six and try to get done by noon? Do you know the historical reasons why? It's because they heal better. And that's actually what surgeons are taught in the beginning. Now, the interesting thing is nobody is recovering their patients outside. Why? Because centralized medicine is completely controlled that environment. The same thing happens now with childbirth. Remember, most human babies that have ever been on this planet

were not born in hospitals. That's just something that's happened in the last 250 years. So the point that I'm trying to make to you is that we know this stuff. The problem is they are not reinforcing it in the education of doctors. And the doctors that actually look into this science and actually are able to see it, like, well, why did we? do this, you know, 50, 60, 100 years ago and we're not doing it now. The answer is pretty obvious because coding doesn't support it. Like it's way better for the hospital and the centralized system to keep people in an artificial lit environment. Why? Because they become constant customers. The goal is not to make them not customers anymore. They need to wallet bias to the nth degree.

and light is a big part of that control compliance program. So I'm happy that a guy like Roger has magically come to this belief system. But I got to be honest with you, dude. I mean, when I was a young doctor, I'm talking about in my 20s, I knew this stuff from the old fuckers that were teaching me. So to tell me that we don't know, I'm sorry. I just, that's a real big pushback for me. Well, it's your choice, how you want to tell you. Bottom line is it's not getting out there.

It's not being done. You can look at the design of a hospital, and you can see that whatever you say, that they're taking into account, but they're not. We move to, if you look at the old hospitals. They're not going to either. That's what I mean. That's based on your skepticism that people are actually trying to do good things.

I personally think that that's, you know, I understand your, war wounded and gone through all these battles. I understand that. But at the end of the day, the forward progress has to occur, in my opinion. And I think that it is starting to occur. I think you're starting to get more and more people, especially with the advent of all these. I'm not saying that you didn't understand this way back when, but it's not what's used in mainstream medicine. So you have a choice. You either say they're intentionally doing it, or they just don't know about it.

Those are your two choices, as far as I can tell. And I tend to believe that a lot of the doctors have not been trained in this area to understand the effect of life. And part of the problem, part of the problem, yeah, part of the problem is that there is not enough data and information out there to make people aware of what's going on. I mean, I just... I don't, I don't, that's... That to me is so foreign.

I get what you're saying, but what you're doing is, is you are catering to the psychoticness of how science is delivered today. I mean, that's what me and, you know, hey, Jack, I mean, honestly, I've had so many papers turned down by journals that I don't even bother to go to journals any. I just do LinkedIn's. I do podcasts. Right.

Because the reality is, is that it's much more effective and much more. much more useful to me and I get better feedback. I mean, I love doing these kinds of things. I have an argument with somebody like you. I understand, you know, a whole lot more than I do in some areas. I know more than you do in other areas. That's the way it goes. And so all I'm saying is that, you know, I guess I'm just,

maybe I'm just the guy, new guy, picking up the torch. I don't know. But I don't think that's what it is. I just don't think that you understand the enemy. that's the key. And I want you to understand the enemy because you know what? I want you to be successful. You can potentially help a lot of people that are out there.

But you have come to this with the belief that once you give the mechanism and the data to the people in power that they're all of a sudden going to genuflect at the knee. I got news for you. They've already known this data for a long period of time. So what am I going to tell you? I'm going to tell you that you're going to be just like a lifetime. Texas and me, you're going to be doing podcast and you're going to be teaching people the things that I warned about Bobby Kennedy and the things I warned about Cali means that you can still make your choices around light, but you've got to make them. Why? Because nobody is coming to

save your ass. Okay. The government could talk about you. The centralized health care system does not want you to get better. It's as simple as that. And you can change the bulbs out in your office. I don't know if they're going to let you change the bulbs out in schools. In fact, my belief is the only answer for the school problem, especially as it's developed from John Ott's experiment to now, the schools are now light prisons and they're done that way by design. So you have to probably become a homeschooler. You have to get books in front of your kids, take the Wi-Fi and screens away. Do, do, am I going to tell people if Scott makes light bulbs that are better than the ones that we have and you can get them in Home Depot and get them there, which I think

is going to be an act of Congress, you're going to wind up probably having to sell direct to people. Why? Because I think, and this is when you're going to learn what I'm trying to teach you, when you come up with these devices, they are actively going to block you from some of it's the reason why the EU changed their standards, sunbeds to make sure there was no UVB in them and only UVA because they do that it would limit the effectiveness for people so that they wouldn't ask the questions that we're kind of talking about here. Hey, by getting the sun, could this make me a smarter person so that, you know, I'll push back against, you know, digital ID, for example, since that's, you know, in the,

in the world now. I think, yeah, but I got to be honest with you, bro. I'm dead. I'm dead. serious about this. This solution is something we need, but I don't believe that the people, by putting the data out, that the people who are going to make the decisions are going to somehow change. I mean, I want you to think about what we're saying now, because you, I, and Alexis just lived through the last five years. We know beyond a shadow of a doubt what's going on in the messenger RNA platform. Okay, there's no question. You can read Bobby Ken. Kennedy's book about Fauci, and now he's the head of HHS, and what is he doing? Genuflecting at the knee to the people in power.

So you're going to tell me that somehow Bobby doesn't know. I know Bobby knows, but Bobby is finding out that the animal that he's dealing with is a little bit different. And for you, come on. Well, I think that I don't get it. I mean, come on, bro. Hey. Yeah, come on. No, I think it's what I find fascinating is that, you know, what you just went through,

I totally agree in a lot of ways, but I think it's a different world from the standpoint of what we're experiencing, exactly what you just said. We're selling direct to people. And you're going to be successful because I believe COVID has put windex on everybody's glass eye. And I believe they now know that the people that are in the decision-making tree, they're not helping us. Like they may put incandescence. They may put LEDs in the aisles of Lowe's and Home Depot, but they're not going to see Scott Zimmerman's creation in those aisles.

But you need to provide a way to get that to people. But I can tell you, I think the science that's already been done, that people know that light is a problem. Now, the people that don't, you want to know the truth? The people that really don't, those are Alexis's people. People that she trained with at Princeton. The guy that I just talked to on the last podcast, Nick Jeholz, about this very issue. The dude's got a PhD. You know what he said?

He said the same thing you did. I didn't really know about this whole biofotone thing. So I don't really understand it. You know what I said to him? The same thing I'm going to say to you. Good. But what does that mean? You just got pushed to the edge, learn about it because it ties in to actually what you're doing with your light bulbs.

That's the reason I'm a fan of you building those light bulbs. But what I've got to do is I've got to teach people the reason why it matters. The reason why you don't buy fruit loops and red dye number six is the same reason you don't buy fluorescence. You don't buy LED polarized lights that's red. and think that magically you're going to get rid of, I don't know, your bone cancer, or your ovarian cancer or your diabetes, because that ain't going to happen. Yeah, I don't disagree. I don't disagree.

Can I chime in on the biophoton front really quick? Because I think it's something I want to study in the lab. And I think one of the biggest issues that I've seen, at least from my perspective, is like the detection issue because if you're going to look at biophotons being emitted from a body, that's not the same thing as the biophotons being created by the body. And I mean, Fritz Pops work and Roland Van Wicks work showing that you're making these photons, but actually the health of your system and how old you are is dictating how much you're releasing into your environment. So I think as Jack has mentioned before, also, if we were able to create a minuscule photo multiplier

and actually look at the cellular level in like at the level of the mitochondria, we might see a ton of biophotons produced. They just don't make it out of the body because they're getting absorbed by molecules and structures within that system first. I'm hoping that after Scott makes the full spectrum bulbs, that somebody gives him Roland Van Wicks book, and then he looks at it and goes, okay, now, now I see another side to the site story that, believe it or not, what he just built and gave to people, actually he's going to be able to really change. Why? Because the full spectrum bulbs that he delivers, he's actually going to see that there's UPEs change. And it's going to change in people, like he said, autism, diabetics. Like he's going to go, there is a new signature when you use my bulbs versus GE or my bulbs and Siemens. Guess what?

That. That is where the needle is going to move. Why? Because then what are you effectively doing? You're cutting out the really bad and affairs guys. The guys that are against Scott, me, and you, Alexis, those are the guys that are right next you in New Jersey. Those guys. Yeah. No, I do totally agree with you, Jack, that there are people that are highly

motivated to not change the status quo with what's going on with lighting, and it's difficult to get around them. You know, I was asked to write a paper with Professor Redder by the IES, the Illumination Society. And I wrote the paper. submitted the paper and they tanked it. They basically refused to publish it. You know, because it does come to the heart of you can't, you can't add in the rest of the spectrum without using more energy. And they didn't want to do that. Right. Because that breaks the political narrative that's out there. And that's, listen, Scott, the thing that you just said there, just so you know, because I don't know if you know this, but I'm going to say it to you. That is exactly the same

reason that Ott's papers weren't accepted by the paradigm in the 60s. So that's the reason I pushed back on you in the first hour where I said, Scott, trust me, you need to know the history of what's happened behind you because you really are picking up where Ott got destroyed. And do I want to see you succeed? Absolutely. But I want you eyes wide open to know who you're going against because I got news here. They're stronger today than they were in 1966 than they were in 1977. Yeah, but haven't you

made progress with El Salvador and the incadiscence? I mean, didn't you get that back in? I made, I made a market that's ready for you. I got a president. I got a president right now that would buy all your fucking light bulbs overnight. In fact, he would convince you to come down here and build them.

So I'm going to tell you, I'm going to tell you that there's no question that that is there. But the point that I'm trying to make to you, because I'm a stickler about this, and I think people who follow me and listen to my podcast, I'm a historian. I know this history in and out around this science. And I'm going to tell you that you need to understand who's really behind this. Big Pharma is just the front for the DOD and DARPA. And they're the ones that really want to keep light the way it is. I can tell you when I sat down with Buckelly, almost three and a half years

ago, I showed him FBI data that showed that crime was worse since we've gone to LED bulbs. And when he saw that, you know his political affiliations in how he is about MS-13, right? You know that Trump is trying to do the same thing. Don't you find it's kind of fucking weird that Trump wouldn't be behind getting rid of Biden and Obama's light bulb standards? Well, I'm going to tell you the reason why, my friend, because Trump doesn't understand what you and I are talking about right now. He has no earthly idea, but guess who does? Buceli. That's part of the reason why Buckelly said, I need these bulbs.

And I'll tell you a follow-up, and this is really for your benefit, not the audience. When his brother got married three years ago at the presidential palace on Lake Quatepeca, you know that President Boke took a plane, flew to Miami, and bought all red incandescence for the wedding for his family and then told everybody at the wedding that he was doing this to protect them this is the leader of a country and he you know what he told him this is important scott he goes i know this isn't good enough he goes but this is the best that i could do so guess what god he's he is basically telling in loud and clear. If you build it, I will give it to my people. The problem is no one will build it.

Why? Because it's not viable in the United States for the reason you mentioned. The idea of climate change and energy on us spending more energy in light bulbs and forgetting about the biologic aspects. The reason Roger, Shahalt, and all the other doctors don't know about this is because of that. And who controls the curriculum? Big Pharma, who gets where most of their money from the government. So

this story is huge. And absolutely am I going to support you in building the polls? No question. Am I going to support your crafts? No question. Where I'm going to push back? I'm going to tell you

that the story is well-known. It's just not well known to the people who need it, which are patients who are getting sick. But the people in the know, I'm talking about the Bobby Kennedys. I'm talking about the Marco Rubios. I'm talking about those guys, bureaucrats that are in D.C., they know the answer. They just don't want anybody else to know they know. That's the key.

Well, my hope is that you're not, I don't have to go that far, because of the cynical. But they may be true. It may be true. Hey Alexis, can we go down through a couple of the other slides so I can get Jack's feedback on them? Please. Let me pull them up. I appreciate it, Jack. You're being, so anyway, we're starting to see a lot of use of structure in the body,

and that is allowing us to basically absorb in certain areas and localize in other areas, the photon density, which is that's what I'm basically. focused on right now. You go on down the next one. So I did some models of the brain and you can jump in on this one all you want. Basically, we were showing that the transmission characteristics through the skin and the skull in the near infrared was just lined up perfectly with the cerebral spinal, or the cerebral spinal fluid acting like a light guy. bringing the light down into the fissures of the brain? Can you comment on that?

Yeah, I mean, I can tell you, I've used these slides to talk to other neurosurgeons and explain to them actually the unusual characteristics of the human brain. Why is the brain the only organ that has light that comes from, I should say, blood vessels that come from outside in in the subarachnoid space surrounding by, you know, CSF? The reason is because of what you just showed here on the slide,

because of how red light penetrates from the sun. That is the single most important thing. And believe it or not, neurosurgery is about 150 years old. They don't even know what's on this slide. And you know why they don't know it is because Big Farmer doesn't want them to know. How is I able to prove this to them beyond a shadow of doubt?

When we use ICP monitors, do you know that some of the new ICP monitors now are using red light actually as a strain gauge? to actually tell what the ICP is in the head. So I said to them, I said, you guys already know every time you operate on somebody, we use a pulse ox. I said, now you see it in strain gauges. When are you going to get the message that nature put this into us two to four billion

years ago by how red light works with the sun? And are they asking good questions? Yes, they are. So I can tell you that this is very powerful information that doctors need. is the reason why. I think neurosurgeons are going to probably lead on this. Why? Because I think we understand light way better than the dermatologist do and the optimologist do. Why? Even though they use light much more frequency in their in their specialties, they are selling the idea that the sun is toxic to people when people already know. I'm talking about the regular Joe's out there

already know that their basal and oregano work way better when they're growing in sunlight. You don't have to convince them of that. The key thing is you got to tell them that their grandchildren work exactly the same way. That when people see this, you know, the people like Tina Carew and Hamlet, how are they helping Scott Zimmerman out? Well, no, that red light actually helps your hair grow too. Well, guess what? That's a function. What's going on your scalp?

That's the top logic effect. Well, what you're talking about is it actually helps there too because of the optical window of the scalp, the bone, and the brain. All of these things are incredibly important for people to understand. So if you've got dementia or you've got long COVID, this is the reason why the sun is irreplaceable in helping you fix some of these problems. Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, it was always amazing to me. the more I do the optical models of the body, every time I turn around, I mean, what goes on with the fetus when the, at the early in the pregnancy, and then as the pregnancy progresses, the spectrum that the fetus is exposed to, changes as a function of skin stretching. You know, it's just to me, it was every time I would turn around, I'd find some other mechanism the body was using sunlight for, yet I wouldn't find that people really, and I'm not disagreeing with you that you understood.

But, you know, I had a really great podcast with midwives. And it was just absolutely fascinating, you know, how little they understood the effect of light in the progression of pregnancies. And you see, you know, I guess that's my thought. Could go in the next slide, Alexis? So one of the things that I've also been very focused in and on his hormones, and I'd like your opinion, Jack, is that. I looked at the transient response, and I know there's the standard circadian cortisol to melatonin, but we've been working with some new sensors to try and actually understand the short-term effects, and these are some transient responses, where if you go and eat, you see a cortisol spike,

then a little bit farther down the road, you see a melatonin spike, and these are happening during the day. So there's all kinds of transient responses in this control system that we call the body that, you know, that I don't think people were aware of. And this sensor is sensing measuring sweat every three minutes. Yeah, I would tell you, the next step for you, since you're interested in this, since your building sensors, just realize. but I haven't really told this theory publicly, but I'm getting ready to. I sat down with a very competent biochemist 10 or 15 years ago, and I tried to explain to them what you're trying to explain on these slides,

that each chemical has an absorption in emission spectrum. So, for example, who knows as an optimal guy that the aromatic amino acids, which create most of the things of proteins in our body are very active, and they have very specific of consortiate admission spectres. I think when we will start to play those spectraps to the things that

Lexus is expert in the biochemical box cars, you'll begin to see that marketing is level for biochemistry is light frequencies. Those light frequencies are the UPEs that are made from

Lennaccount of the DNA. Believe it or not, you need to know this. There's papers out there already. That blood actually makes bio photons. Clea in another one. So does myelin. Why is this a big deal? You know, as a photonics guy, the color

links to what things can absorb. So for example, if you put your cell phone on a black hood of a Mercedes, you get the temperature warning on your cell phone fast. Remember, all the white matter in your brain is white for a reason. That actually clues you in

that there's another story going on with light emission inside the body. So your slide that you showed earlier about the brain, knowing that the gray matter is on the top, and it goes into the white matter below, and when you show these pictures about the sweat that's on the head, this is the link between having no valves in the brain

being linked to granulations that are there that are present to the galvanic stimulations on your skull. This is the reason why actually things that the FBI uses actually work. Do I think that you're going to be able to find out that there's hormone changes in the sweat that links to absorption and emission spectres that you're going to be able to control with the lights that you're going to build? Yes, I believe you're going to find that. Why? Because all the science works out and what are hormones effectively in my decentralized thesis? They are ferry boats for light. That's all they are. And if you look at each one of them, each one of them

has a very specific absorption and emission spectrum. You know, so when you think about the number one thing that myelin is made out of, which is cholesterol, most people are shocked to find out that cholesterol has a biphasic absorption phenomenon. Shouldn't shock you, why? Because cholesterol lipid rafts change in mammals between summer and winter. That's the reason why it exists. but you know that all the hormones that you just pushed here outside of cholesterol, I should say cortisol, they actually fundamentally can come and be crafted from cholesterol. Vitamin B is an example of that. But people like Alexis know that we can make hormones when the TCA cycle spins one way,

but when it's hypoxic, there's another way to make it through succinyl, succinate A, instead of using acetyl-CoA. that's the way we used to do it in different environments. And the point that I make to you when I say this is you are going to find because you're building sensors on the skin that check light, you're going to pick these up before Alexis will pick it up in her books. Because I know what Alexis has learned in her books because I learned it. And I know what the limitations of that are. What you're doing now is you're extending the information that's in those biochemistry. books to different things where people need to ask those questions. That's the reason why

people like Alexis, people like Jim L. Kalili, people like Nick Lane, people like Roger, are going to be really important for a guy like you to get feedback on. Why? Because what you're finding is really uncovering a new layer of quantum biology. Yeah, I mean, it was just absolutely fascinating. This particular sensor, like I say, measures every three minutes and it measures simultaneously melatonin cortisol, IL6, and TNF alpha. And the interconnections between them has just been fascinating to look at because, you know, cortisol starts to come up. All of a sudden there's a spike for melatonin.

I don't know where it came from, but I know it's there. And then, you know, you walk into a dark room and turn on the TV and you can see cortisol spikes coming up and all this stuff in and timescales on the order of. 10 minutes. So this transients are going on on top of the more circadian type baselines that people are dealing with. And the sweat monitors give you a really good gauge of that. And I'm just so surprising how fast the body responds to some of these changes in stressors.

Well, I'm going to tell you, there was a book written that you probably should read, written by Fritz Hall, which he's an ophthalmologist. He wrote it in the 40s. he this is the time that we didn't have intraocular lenses he took the cataracts out he actually measured their urinary hormones and found that they changed immediately now this is back in the 40s so it's not surprising to me that you're finding this out but the reason i mention this to you this goes back to Alexis this point that she made a half an hour ago why guys like me need uh photomultipliers that are at the smallest levels Why? Because the changes that you're seeing in this sweat are related to the ultra-weak bio photons that are created.

That is the key to this story. And when people begin to find out what lights really doing at the sub-molecular level and how it's controlling everything, that to me is when centralized medicine gets put in its grace. Yeah, I even pulled an interview from Fritz Pop, I think it was very. from the 90s or maybe the late 80s, and he says outright in the interview that when the biochemists learned that the metabolites that are undergoing all these conversions by enzymes need to be simulated by light first, everything is going to change. And so he already had that intimation back, you know, decades ago. And that's why I said to Scott earlier, why I pushed back so hard on him, I get what he's doing, but I want him to be, I'm kind of, how shall I say, the pope of people who really got the story right early.

Like, I want to elevate them because history has really buried them. You know, that's guys like Pop, guys like Becker. You know, I'd even say John Ott is one of those guys. I think what Ott did to me is more impressive than a guy with a PhD. Why? Because he was just a time lax photographer. He was such a good observer that he picked us up. And it sounds like here you are as a guy that's in photonics and optics.

And you also are observing what's happening. in nature and to me, that's the first step in science. That's the single most important step and then figuring out what the mechanisms are and all that's great, but what do people really need to do right now? They need to do what all three of us are doing. Get out in the sun. I agree. I agree. Alexis, can you go to the next slide? I like Jackson, but. Yes, sir. So, you know, during COVID, it, I was, I started looking at the effect of sunlight on the virus transmission. And I did a paper on seasonality. But there's one quote, I think, comes in.

I don't know, I can't read it from here, to be quite honest. I can read it if you want. Yeah, go for it. Okay, so it says if we knew what suppressed influence to summertime levels, that would be a lot more effective than any of the flu vaccines that we have. That was from Dr. Scott Dowell. Yeah, and he's it. And the point was

is that during the first few months of the pandemic, there was some really great work out of NIAID that showed the half-life of the virus in various in dark conditions and cold conditions. It was followed up with a test study that looked at the virus half-life in sunlight. And it went from one hour to less than 18 seconds. And so we were looking at whether we could use how the environment.

And this was tied in with the epidemiological studies that showed that 99% of all the transfers of COVID occurred indoors versus outdoors. And so what we did, if you go to the next slide, Alexis. We did some computational fluid dynamic studies and we were able to show that sunlight, how sunlight affect everything. but it turned out the most effective germicide was the actual, when sunlight comes up every day, it tends to generate a germicidal level of hydrogen peroxide and ozone. And during the day, and then that drops off, and then the microbes release nitric oxide.

And so what it seems to be that nature's been providing us with protection and what we're doing indoors is not only effective, how our body functions efficiently, but it's also affecting how the pathogens are being affected. Absolutely. This is the reason why it just reinforces what I told you earlier that the guy who is the head of NIAID approved by Reagan in 1982 who made all the mistakes in the AIDS virus.

It made all the same mistakes in COVID when he told us to go inside. And he knew better. There's papers, just as you said, that were out there showing these effects. But guess what? You can't create a vaccine under an EUA if have the other chemical or drug that actually shows that it's effective.

This is the reason why this information was buried. Yeah, I was frustrating because I tried to get both of them to rerun tests and expand the knowledge base. All of them came back and said they couldn't, It wasn't part of their scope. And now you know the reason why. This is the reason why I hope the audience really understands what the bigger game is. Why for the last two years I've been talking a lot of politics and why I've been talking about science and things like that because it scales right down to the health side of things, the decentralized model that I have.

Why? Because they don't want you to know how powerful sunlight is. Because if you did know, you're going to wind up not needing a lot of the centralized institutions for a lot of different things. And I can tell you, the childhood vaccine schedule happens to be one of them. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Next slide, Alex. So basically, just because I make money based on selling light bulbs, this is our light bulb. The black line is what we do.

we use a combination of LED plus incandescent and in the right proportions to mimic what you get when you're out in the shade. It lets you do things at about 40 or 50 lumens per watt versus incandescent 10 to 15. Alexis has one. I have the DC bulbs, two of them actually. I think you gave me. Yeah, I gave you the DC version. Great. And then the last one is just from Roger.

If you go to that, it's just showing that as I think you're talking about, Jack, is that there was a time where we understood this and it got shut down. I totally agree with you from a historical standpoint that they discredited most of the work in the area because they wanted to sell more drugs. I think that's pretty self-evident. Scott, on the top of my medical school hospital, I did my residency. See that picture you have in the middle? That was where we put patients. This is in the 1980s, just so you know. Jay, you broke up on me, Jack.

Say it again. Little picture that you have on this slide. Where I did my residency training, charity hospital and Florence, we had that salarian that we were able to use for patients. Really? Yes. So what I tell you that I've known, I know it for a really long time.

A lot of the doctors I trained with have known. And we know the reason why. That's the reason why I pushed hard back on you because some of us know the real reason why this stuff's going on. And this is the reason why I'm vehemently opposed to some of the things that are out there, especially in politics. Because I think people need to know that we have known about this for a real thing. really long time. And it's, we need to educate the public on this information and not doctors. Why? Doctors are going to continue to get all of their information from Big Farmer. Where we're going to impact doctors, Scott, is going to be when they're out of residency

and they're not being pounded on by pretty drug reps from Pfizer. And when they start to see their patients that have done all the things that they were taught to do in their, their residency, but they still don't get better on the drugs. But yet, when they go outside, they magically get better. That is the message that I have been pushing hard for 20 years. Well, I totally agree. I totally agree. I mean, I hope that we can make a change back.

I mean, it's been interesting to see with this petition to reverse the, the rule change that Biden put in. and I'm hopeful that, you know, we had a lot of doctors and optical people, alighting people that came on board. And so I guess I'm hopeful that it'll actually get some traction because that one rule would basically negate my ability to provide any near-infrared content to the bulbs, which is a crime, I think, is a crime, in my opinion. Yeah, I totally agree with that, but I'm going to tell you that.

I think the real guys behind the curtain, the DoD and DARPA, they're going to be the ones that are pulling the front. Biden and Obama, when they came up with this idea, because people forget, 2008 is when this idea came. It first started with TVs when Obama got rid of the analog signals and went to the digital signals. That was the first step in making sure that every TV would harm you. Then they stepped on the gas further and changed all the rules with light bulbs. And it's gotten substantially worth. And you know that Obama and Biden, they're not the people that understand this science. You and I both know that.

But the people that are the people at Darbo. And those people, that's where they learned it was all the way back to the Manhattan Project. those are the people of why we have to follow the end that as long as you can provide the department I'll always support you by you have to remember that Alexis has been to my house here in El Salvador

which people will tell you say it again you broke up a minute like for a second there you've been to my house in El Salvador and you know that I don't use light bulbs in my house. Inside my whole house doesn't even have walls. You're able to go outside when you're inside.

And the reason I'm hardcore about this is because I have way more distrust than you do in the powers that are out there. And I want you to understand why, dude, when you hear me say things on other podcasts and don't say it to you, I want you to understand. doesn't mean I don't support Scott Zimmerman.

I'm actually going straight to the key point to get people back into the sun. This is the reason why I don't talk shit about a lot of the red light guys. A lot of their lights suck if you want to know the truth. But the bottom line is, is that a better option than a fucking LED light that these people are working under or a fluorescent bulb that people are working under? Yeah, but how much benefit are they really getting? Probably not as much as they think

or not as much as the marketers are selling them. That's for sure. It's always been a hard thing because, you know, we've taken a very hard line with the idea that the first and foremost is get people outdoors in the sun and try and convince them to have what I call good solar hygiene where they don't go and fry themselves like some people want to do once a year, you know, type thing, but actually get a continuous exposure. But there is so many areas where I believe,

that especially in nursing homes and schools and prisons, you know, that have are having a negative impact on people's help, we ought to do something to help if we can. Well, I'm actually, so on that note, I'm giving a talk to all of the superintendents and principals in New Hampshire in June. They invited me to come teach them about light so that they can hopefully revamp their public school system. I mean, I don't know if it's going to actually happen, but it's at least a door that's open that maybe it could end up being like a, you know, kind of like a beacon for other states to follow ultimately if, you know, the momentum builds enough.

But I mean, yeah. Yeah, you ought to try and include what Jack was talking about the video from a lot. Absolutely. I'm definitely going to include the school children's video and like before. Yeah, for Sarasota. I think that was one of the first things that kind of got me going. And then, you know, it's one of those things that because I approach it from the optics, standpoint. I have a good friend who's from Ghana, so we've measured transmission characteristics

so his skin. And then another friend that's redhead, and he's about as zero as you can get, and, you know, measured. And what was fascinating was is when you looked at them optically, about the time you get to about 800 nanometers as you're going out into the longer wavelengths, we all tend to merge together and water takes over. Melanin drops out and doesn't do anything, or doesn't have any absorption, but we all end up being the same color in the area where the body seems to have the most activity going from an energy process standpoint. Yeah, I will tell you that, like I started this podcast when I mentioned what I mentioned to you, that the story of light outside in is definitely fascinating, but I'm going to tell you,

the story of endogenous light creation from inside out, I think is the most fascinating story that I've ever uncovered in Madison. Well, I'd actually, I'd actually, you know, I spent a lot of time building photon counting, liquid nitrogen-cooled, react monochromator systems for measuring very low light levels. And I find what you're saying, interesting. I'm still just a little skeptical about how far it can go. And it's kind of like the reactive oxygen argument. There's always been a question if you have something that has such a short half-life

or is immediately absorbed, you know, how can it be effective for longer range? And I think there has to be a conversion either to a phonon or some kind of a chemical change in order to really affect things at a distance. So the only argument I have. I think a lot of that stuff I can tell you. I know for a fact, a lot of that stuff has been done. The thing that I would tell you to take a look at, because he didn't really talk about it in his book,

but I'm sure you read it. You know that the P&N semiconductor that Becker found in Bone has those two copper atoms that are electrostatically bound. And you know exactly how that works in an LED. One of the things that Becker talked about in his book and also in his papers that he wrote in orthopedics, is that bone seems to admit this bread round light. But he never took it to the next step with.

The guy that I'm probably the most pissed off with is Perino, because Perino was the perfect guy to do this because he's a biophysicist and he understood it. And it turns out if you actually look at the atomic oxidation state of copper, the answer is right there. The reason we use magnesium, in chlorophylls because it's redox stable. The reason inside, like in sync,

SOD cases, which is ROS switching, it's also redox stable. But you'll find out that iron, baganese, and copper are not. And the reason why is it turns out those electronic transitions are the key answer to the story that you're looking for. How do we go from light to oxidation changes

to get signaling down the pathway. And once you begin to understand that science, then you're going to go straight to 1948 and open up Claude Channon's paper and look at his mathematics of entropy, and you're going to begin to see something very interesting. No, I don't totally disagree. I'm just, it's not something I spend enough time

to really understand, to be quite honest. But I do appreciate the comments and the input. The other thing is, one of the neat things that you see when you look at the structure of the scan in particular, you see this localization of melanin in an area that has a,

where there's a significant index of a fraction difference, and we know that melanin can make a solar cell. But optically, the variation or the, the modulation between the dermis and the epidermis, that's creating an optical absorber. And I put it, it's like, we do this on solar cells all the time, but the body's been doing it for millions of years. So I think it's just a really fascinating how every time you look at something in the body,

there is an optical take on the whole thing as well as a chemical or biological take. Scott, I want to tell you about this because this is important. try to bring this up to Uberman, but it just fell on death ears. His father is a condensed matter physicist. And I asked Uberman after the podcast, I said, do you know that the people in DARPA and NASA are studying melanin for sheets? Why? Because dried melanin forms unbelievable electric currents. It's probably the best thing outside of maybe graphene that's out there.

And I said, do you want to know something that's really interesting? What happens on our surface is very different than what happens. inside. I said, do you know when you hydrate melanin, it actually dampens the current and it dampens it to an incredible degree so that the amount of current that you can pull off dried melanin is reduced to one trillion of one amp of current? And I said, you know, you might be shocked to find out that when Becker did his work on bone healing, that I'm sure you've read this, you know, that was the same amount of current that de-differentiated red blood cells where it broke the central dogma and went back in time and made first methemoglobinemia, then it made nucleated red blood cells, this little current.

So the reason I say this to you, Scott, is you said I just don't believe that bio photons could do something like this. I want you to go back and read the electric body very, very carefully, since you're a good observer, because I've made this case, Becker published this and no one has followed up on it predominantly because Darper got rid of him. That small electric current that's made from hydrated melanin sheets actually is what de-differentiated red blood cells in humans to actually regenerate bone. That's been published in the literature since the 1960s. And let me tell you something.

not one person not one has ever followed it up and that includes everybody's big hero marino uh marino never did god damn thing with it

and let me tell you something i've never said this publicly i've always tried to keep my tongue tied about this but burrino had a duty to us to do it and if you want to know the reason why he didn't do it scott it's the reason why when alex is or Cameron Brog brings him on a podcast, you're allowed to talk about this and nothing else. Why?

Because he knows about the things that I was trying to explain to you about DARPA, the DOD, the government, and all those things, that they will come for you and they will take your livelihood away. But the reason I pointed out to you Is that when you really parse that experiment out And you're an optics guy I guarantee you you're going to be stunned at what he found Okay Happy to look at Yeah like I say

I mean I just think that there's such a need For a change And people need to know what you're doing out there in sunlight Versus what goes on inside a classroom and there has to be I even they asked me what you could do I said well

do you have a screen on your window I said okay open the window you know because I do believe that's what John Aunt did in the Sarasota school experiment but you know like when Alexis said she's going up to New Hampshire realized New Hampshire has a shitty

quantum meal to begin with then it's geoengineered and then what do they do they lock the kids down in a prison because they're afraid they're going to get shot up a column line well who's Who's making all these rules? Guess who it is?

The government's again. So they want to keep these kids inside. Really what they need to do is do what they did when I was a kid. Let's go outside in midday for an hour and let's go play dodge ball. Let's go play wiffle ball. Let's go do something just so we can get out of the artificial light. If you did that for children, I think you would notice a dramatic improvement in their health and their behavior. I agree.

I agree. And, you know, it needs to be taken into account the differences in their optical properties as well. You know, the displacement of, when I was doing the work on seasonality and the COVID, I found the amazing, terrifying fact that they said that the 40, you were 40 times more likely to die of COVID, an African American versus a sub-Saharan African. And, you know, it should, to me, that's just the tragedy that needs to be a thought on my, on my Twitter feed, just so you know that. Say what? I had tweets out about that very issue.

I was like, take a look at how African Americans are dying in Detroit and New York and look at what's going on in Africa. And the only reason I was able to say that in COVID is because one of my friends was protecting me from being banned. That was Jack Dorsey. Wow. Just so you know, that was four and a half years ago. that Uncle Jack was saying that stuff. And if you want to know just how powerful that was,

that is actually the tweet that got me in front of Buceli. He said, wait a minute. He goes, if this is true, he goes, what am I doing with my people? Because we have, most of our people at brown skin. I said, I got some bad news. You got 13th North Latitude Light.

I said, you need to get them outside. magically what Buceli did right after that, he started to give people bad, of Ivermectin and vitamin D and told them don't stay inside anymore, go outside. This is a president of a country who completely flipped after hearing a tweet that's out there about what you just mentioned. So I'm going to tell you, there are people that don't have their head up their ass. The problem is they're few and far between.

and that's part of the reason why I'm a big believer in places like El Salvador because I think that this science that we're trying to talk about is actually going to leak out. It may trickle, may not be good enough for Scott, for Alexis, or Jack, but we're not going to be censored here for telling people, you know, how they should do their life right and not do it according to the way, Big Pharma or the DOD or DARPA wants you to do it. Yeah. No, I mean, I can't argue.

I mean, like I say, it took me forever to get published on some of the stuff I was doing. And I finally gave up and I just do podcasts and LinkedIn for most of the work I do. Kevin McKearden started a substack and he's been publishing like on his substack. And he's even had like people publishing in Frontiers site his substack as a reference. So maybe that's something you could look into as well. I mean, he and Jack are also trying to build out a more decentralized journal model. So that will also fix the problem, of course. I want to tell you something else that I've just kind of said basically,

because I didn't want this out publicly, but it's probably important for you to hear. Because I don't think you really know what I've been doing. I went back into the hospitals when people were getting killed by putting end to tracheal tubes in them and keep them in blue light. And I got the vials in beautiful. different places in the United States, and I sent him to Kevin McKiernan, so that he could find exactly what I thought really was the problem and why these things were happening and why nobody wanted you to see the sun, why everybody wanted to get as much oxygen inside of you as possible. And I'm saying this to you as an optical guy, because when you heard me in the

beginning of this podcast, talk about the GOE and the stuff that you're working on, I promise you, what I said there is the single most important thing that you're going to find in why these things happen. Oxygen is a real problem with artificial light. Massive problem. And Alexis is at the intersection, what's in my head and what you're doing yourself? Because she knows that biochemistry inside and out. The only difference is she doesn't really understand. Normaxia versus hypoxia and then plugging it into the evolutionary history because that's a big deal.

And the ambient light that we live in is the biggest story never told. So anybody who tells that story will always get my stamp of approval. Sounds cool. I actually appreciate it a lot, Jack. I had a good time. Yeah, this is fun. I also think that, I mean, we don't have to get into it. but I'm sure that it's going to play out that there's a strong link between

biophotone production and the light that you're exposed to from the outside. I'm sure they're influencing. There's already. I got these here. There's already data. If you want to know the truth, Alexis, you can probably look into this. The other day, Nick Johomes, when I did the podcast with him about hemoglobin, and I told them all the things about hemoglobin, how it relates directly to the GOE.

And remember, he's an evolutionary biologist and a biochemistry to the PhD. he's like, Jack, you just taught me right there. He goes, I had no idea how hemoglobin, oxygen, and nitric oxide really interact with ATP. And I said, when you understand this, then let's take the second level, because I gave him a little clue. I said, have you ever wondered why the interminechondichondrial membrane doesn't have DHA on it, but it uses molybdenum and magnies? And you have SODs, and what are the SODs all linked to? They're linked to these atoms that actually have this really interesting oxidation state. And he goes, why are you telling me this?

I said, because now that you understand how hemo-golden works, I want you to begin to understand this next story. Because why is this next story a big one? It's actually how the gut operates. Remember, that gut is filled with a ton of prokaryotes. And you know, as a Ph.D, that that gut, especially if we're going to talk to our gastroenter, neurologist friend on your podcast, this story is going to be big because you know what pop showed in prokaryotes.

So make a ton of light. And guess what happens? The prokaryotic spectrum is altered by these redox sensitive atoms, which gets right back to what I said to Scott in the beginning about why you can never create an artificial light that mimics what the sun does. It turns out light is capable of changing the oxidative. state of atoms by itself and that is the

story of truly understanding what bio photons are doing so a guy on I believe it was Martin Picard's Twitter feed his name is Felix Shulkevin just published a really interesting paper about how

myelin and sleep are linked meaning the more myelin nation you have the more sleep you get from an evolutionary perspective and I was very provocative with him and I said do you know the reason why that's the case I said you know that things are mollinated or white and I said what do you know about light and semi-conduction with the color white and black I remember this guy's a biophysicist he's not a dumbass and he didn't realize

where I was taking this and I was like I got newsfeed my friend violent is also tied to the story of hypoxia and preparedness why You know this as a PhD. In the stomach, all we have, the only bacteria we have is helical factor. Those are facultative arrows. What does that mean? They make huge ROS. So what does that mean?

The biophotons are going to make are ultra-weak UV, which is exactly what Pop found, right? Down in the colon where it's 10 to the 14 prokaryans, it's fermentation. Guess what they make? 400 to 800. completely different. And you want to hear the interesting thing. You know, our friend Dr. Hazen, she was talking, I wouldn't say shit, but she was talking to people about using methylene blue poorly and that it destroys

biphidobacteria. And she's right. But she doesn't realize why that actually may be a benefit in certain people who have their gut microbiome wide open because Alan Fry's work. Because maybe you have to clear the deck to get a better biofoton. sampling and it turns out each individual prokaryat in our gut emits a different frequency and it turns out that frequency on that filament that tube that explains the reason why we have a vr receptor in our gut because it makes optically from what scott said earlier absolutely no sense

from an evolutionary perspective of why that's there and i told nick the story is what's going on in those bugs and how those bugs are affected and what they're doing because guess what happens helicobacter and we know this from first principles from barry marshals uh Nobel Prize we know that if you have too much helicobacter in your stomach you are going to get not only an ulcer but you're going to get cancer if it doesn't get changed we all know today that that is a pre-malignant condition. You know what we don't know? Why? And that gets to the point that I was trying to make to Scott earlier.

The why is really what public health aids? And then here's the flip side of the story. Everybody knows the story about colon cancer. But nobody seems to realize that the enteric plexus down in your colon is unmyloning. Think about that for a minute, Alexis. What I'm saying about biofotons, isn't that the spider on the mirror story, that the story of ultra-weak biofutton creation and the myelination is completely yoked to hypoxia in that part. What happens if you change the ROS signaling?

Guess what? It changes the biophoton emission. When you change the biophoton emission, what do you think of it's the tissue adjacent? what's the name of Roland Van Wicks book Alexis light scopes life something like this there you go yeah there you go it turns out the way in which life scopes our life is that's that's my edge but I'm very interesting

and the thing is I believe that people can learn this information and I don't have any doubt and I think you're probably the best person to talk to about this. When you have PhD biophysicist and PhDs from Princeton don't know these basics and that people tell me it's not published. Oh, it's published. You know what the problem is? No one's putting the story together. That's the real. I had another question.

So one of the things that we've seen in some of the optics characterization is that the highest density of photons occur in the infrared region between about 1,200 and about 3,000 nanometers.

And that's also been shown to be the region that are the wavelengths that generate high levels of hydrogen peroxide in the outer skin. And then if you look at the other side of the spectrum and you're looking at vitamin D production. There's been some really great studies that have shown that the, that the region of the

melanin has been oxidized in the region of the 50 microns that the UVB is absorbed. But the only way to do that, you can't do that with photons. it has to be a photochemical. So the argument is that the hydrogen peroxide generated in the outer 50 microns in the infrared is actually making it so we are more efficient at generating cracking cholesterol in the UVB. Do you have a comment on it, Jack? Yeah. What's the number one thing you're forgetting, my friend, Scott?

What is the antidote biologically for hydrogen peroxide? Do you know? it's a heme-based protein. No. Know what it is? Catalaise. You got it. Catalaise is the answer, my friend, and it turns out that you'll probably be shocked to hear this.

Because it's a heme-based protein, you know what that means. That means that red light is important, you know, to it and its function. And the hydrogen peroxide story, the way it's quenched is important. A lot of people don't know this, but catalase is probably more. prominent in our blood than anywhere else. In fact, if you take a piece of liver and put it in to a Coke bottle and pour hydroxide into it, the bottle will take off like a rocket. And the reason why that's important is catalase is the fastest enzyme catalyst that we know in the human body. So it's designed to work at levels that we can't even fathom. So you mentioned something earlier in the

podcast like, Jack, the timescales don't fit. Well, they do. when you understand what catalase is effectively doing the hydrogen peroxide. And then you start thinking about, okay, let's talk about superoxide. That's where the SOD chemicals that I mentioned to you earlier come in. That's where zinc, copper and magnies are huge. Why? Because we all have those. And it turns out they're in different places in the body.

That means they do different things. So I'll give you just a, for example, when you have a copper SOD, it's actually more reactive and creates a different biofoton emission, zinc is very similar to chlorophyll, meaning that magnesium is redox stable, so it doesn't change. So you know as a physicist, or I should say an optics guy, you ever seen when people show on Twitter, like when you have fertilization come through and there's light emitted when the sperm and egg come together? Zinc is the dopant that allows that to happen. Here's the other one. When you see bubbles that burst and you see a, a thing of light that gets released,

you know that zinc is also tied there. Why? Because it emits the light, it doesn't keep it in. Turns out copper and magnies actually keep it within the system so you can't see it. And this is one of the things that I try to be a little bit provocative with you about Becker in the P&N semiconductor and those two electrostatic copper atoms in there. The reason that orthopedic surgeons don't see the brown red light at the time of surgery, because of those copper atoms.

What is it doing? It's not only absorbing it, but they're readmitting it in different parts of the system. So what Scott asked me about is about the infrared. We know that the biggest chromophore in the body is water,

especially from 600 to 3,100. But that ain't the only one. Turns out that heme proteins all are red-like chromophores, every single one of them. And when you consider like a magneto-kepto, which is what nitric oxide is, think about Alexis yourself. You know this. What does nitric oxide do to hemoglobin, which is another heme protein? It binds to it.

Is the oxygen binding capacity? And what else does it do? It stops ATP production. In the mitochondria. Think about that for a minute. That tells you that hemoglobin had to evolve in a variable oxygen environment, which goes to what I'm trying to get Scott to understand that ROS is not what he thinks. ROS is another switch on the equalizer that can be dialed up and dialed down. And why is biology doing it

to change the UPE spectrum? It needs to use it in a certain way. And there's ways to quench it, and there's ways to propagate it or assimilate it into the system. And that is where the science needs to head. And believe it or not, is there a lot of things published on this science that people are unaware? Well, that goes to the Twitter feed that I just told you about Felix Schulteman.

He's a PhD who works with this big lady in Canada who's working with Michael Levin. Remember what Michael Levin's claim to fame is. And I know you don't have a lot of love for him like I don't. He's the bioelectric guru, right? And what did what did Andrew Marino say to Cameron Borg on his podcast? He goes, I talked to Michael Levin before he started his career. And I warned him that his mentor, Jaffe, who's a biochemist that blocked all of Becker's work, would hamper him. What's my thesis?

photo bioelectric synthesis. Why won't Levin ever get to where Scott needs Levin to go? Because DARPA fuels his research. What did tell Scott what Michael Levin told Alexis on her podcast that EMFs play no role in biology? You know why he said that, Alexis? Because if it did, you would have to go. where I'm trying to drag Scott, where I'm trying to drag him. You're going to find out that this ultra-peak biophoton story is the biggest story in the world.

And I think even the research around like UPE shows that in the mitochondria, the reactive oxygen and nitrogen species are a big producer of light. ROS, if you look at Roland Van Wittick's book, he said, you can't create biophotons without oxygen there. And, you know, people have said to me after the Nick Jones podcast, like, Jen, what happens if we're in the in the GOE and say we're just saying they can forget about the evolutionary history? Think about the cold. All right. We got 10 to the fourth prokaryotes.

It's got less than 1% oxygen. Where the fuck is the arm with this? It still is created. Why? Because guess what? Eat proteins, which is exactly what I try to get Scott to understand. Catillates can do it. So can hemoglobin blood itself that has no mitochondria?

Remember, see, only cell in humans that has no mitochondria. There's papers out there that show from Russia that blood alone can actually make ROS signal. And it can do it making its own UPE spectra. And we know what that spectra is. It can go anywhere between 200 and 700 nanometer light and it's doable by what it interacts. and people in biology just don't understand that when light hits in a metal atom, it can change the oxidation state.

It doesn't do it for magnesium. It doesn't do it for zinc. But all the other transition metals, it doesn't. That is the reason why all of eukaryats are specialists in iron. Okay? We're specialists in copper. We're specialists in molybididin. We're specialists in magnesium because what are we doing?

We're using light to propagate the light signals from bio photons within the system. And in every system, it doesn't work the same. Turns out when the atom changes, the oxidation state changes, the story for biology changes. But what's ultimately the issue? What's the signal, the first principle thinking signal that I want to really stick to Scott? Everything has an absorption and emission. When I sat down at Ray Pete showed him that, I said, explain this to me. he just looked at me with glass eyes

and I said dude before I'm done you're going to find out that everything you fucking believe in biochemistry is the biggest fucking lie ever propagated on the planet and I said I'm telling you this story before you're dead and I'm going to watch and see what you do

with it because I had this exact same discussion but Becker and he just spun and he said to me he goes there's a reason I don't have a PhD Jack because I'm an MD because I'm a straight I look at my patience and I'm like, how can a plant heal itself with a DC electric

current and yet I'm able to heal a nine-year-old's finger completely. And remember, in his book, Alexis, this is for you. There's no discussion about the diet for salamanders, for frogs or for the nine-year-old kid whose finger was amputated all the way down here that include bone, muscle, nerve, and skin, completely regenerated. That tells you from first principles, from things published in the literature,

there's a lot more fat on the bone. And when I talked to Becker about biophotons, he goes, man, he goes, I wish I would have met you in the 1960s. Then I told him, I said, just so you know, the guy that was working on this was active in the 1960s. Wow. They kept you guys away from each other so that you would never put the story together. And I will tell you, single best part of Cameron Borg's podcast with Marino was what Marino said to Cameron. He said, I warned Levin. And now anybody that interviews Marino,

before you do a podcast with him, he gives you, it's like, talking to a bowling alley he blows up the the um the bumpers so that the ball doesn't go in the gutter but he limits the discussion because he does not want to talk about what scott doesn't believe is real that the d o d and the dark guys anything that comes down to light electrovagantism they are going to shut down and that's the truth that's the reason why we all have to go direct to the public with this story. Why? Because it's exactly what I try to uncover with Cali needs. All parents, all humans, can do what all three of us are doing right now. We can not eat the processed food. We cannot eat the fruit loops. We can stay away from red dye number seven. You can even stay away from light bulbs.

But you must realize that what we're doing right now outside is the single biggest thing in the story to life. And the only way I'm going to convince people to stay out as long as I can is to make them understand how incredibly important this story is in biology and how it really works. Why? Because when you find out how it works, you're going to sit back in your chair with a glass of wine and go, it's fucking incredible what nature, evolution, or God, whoever you want to believe, but inside of us, it's spectacular. It's the best of us. It's the best of it. It's the best story ever. It's the story I love talking about, but I don't want people to learn the sliver. The sliver, the half truth always leads to the full lie. And we have been lied to long enough.

I totally agree with your last statements. I do agree with that. I'm still trying to struggle to get my mind around certain things. But, you know, one of the things, though, I would like your opinion real quick is that when we were looking at the seasonality effects and trying to show all cause mortality and all those things, it seems very clear that sunlight plays such a huge role in this whole thing. And, you know, one of the things I came away from the computational fluid dynamics studies is that the transmission characteristics of a virus to another person, six feet away, occurs in seconds. And while the reactive oxygen species that's in the air we breathe is fairly effective,

we couldn't get to the point to show that we were matching up with the data as far as, you know. So it came to the conclusion that the body doesn't just depend on nature to do it. It also has its own defense system and beyond what I think is. out there associated with this hydrogen peroxide build up in the skin and forming a barrier. I'm going to tell you that that actually is, we are running the biggest light show that you could ever imagine. And when, like I said, when you learn about it, I think the cool thing is you now have a book.

When I started doing this 20 years ago, I couldn't direct people to all the papers that I had to translate from Japanese and fucking Russian. and now you can buy Roland Van Wicks book that goes through the 125 years of all that data. The cool part is, and this is truly the cool part, the people that I'm interacting with now in Alexis's world,

like Martin Picard, Michael Levin, they're beginning to really pay attention to what I'm saying. Why? Because I'm taking what they're doing now and extending it way past, and I'm doing to them what I just did to you in this podcast. I'm saying you don't know what's published because you don't read the fucking.

literature that you should read because it's out there. The problem is when you read it and then you connect the dots and you go, oh my God, this now makes sense because remember, the last thing that a researcher wants to have happened is to bite the hand that feeds it. That's what Michael Levin's big problem is right now. He's now at the point where he can't go really where he needs to go. But guess what? The other people that aren't linked to Michael's problem can go there.

In fact, Alexis is one of those people. This guy, Nick Jocombs, he's another one. My goal is to infect so many of these PhDs so that they start going, well, no one's ever been able to explain to me what Scott, what you're saying. How does an ultra-weak biophoton extend quorum sensing between us and that tree, us and a virus, us and a microbe? And the way, the best way to do that that I know of is to stick from first principles to show you what prokaryotes do in your colon and in your gut and then show you what's really happening out here in nature when a bee goes and interacts with the UV bio photons created by a flower. And then you sit back and go, Jesus Christ, John Ott was really right.

He just didn't have the tools to figure this out. And I can promise you, the next tool that we need is the advance that Fritz Pot made. When he put everything in photo multipliers and saw that everything emits light, now the next thing guys like me need, and probably it's going to be Alexis because I'll be dead, we're going to need somebody to make photo multipliers that we can put inside, you know, wires, kind of like optical tweezers. And you know what those are. we need some type of optical tweezer to tell um Alexis what happens when she uses Scott and

Zimmerman's bulb that he created what's the change between sunlight Scott's bulb and say Biden's LED and then you're going to have people like I don't know some of my MD members that are way younger than me so okay now this makes sense based on what Jack said in you know 1998 because that explains the reason why the osteoporosis that we're getting on Earth today is related to those two copper atoms falling off and the P&N semiconductor don't work. There's no light transmission anymore in the system. That's not the osteoporosis that Alexis and Jack and, you know, Mike Twinemann weren't learned about a medical school.

Why? Because it was about Wolf's Law, which is total fucking bullshit. You know, it's like a half-truth that big farmer uses to sell osteoporosis medicines. Well, you know, like I say, I really appreciate it and I'd like to continue having our conversation sometimes. But, you know, I'm just, I guess I'm still the optimist that I believe that, you know, having gone through what we've gone through with the COVID and slowly it seems to be leaking out that there were alternatives that weren't brought up, the people shouldn't be being inside, that they should be outside in sunlight. And I understand that the data is out there, and I feel like I generated some of the data that's useful. But because honestly, nobody had done the optics of where the photons were going and how then I tied it in with the electron spin resonance data from Zostro, where we could say, okay, now this photon is generating X number of reactive oxygen speed. species and in a three-dimensional situation.

And you start looking at it and you say, the body's got a lot of defenses we didn't even think about. And that's where, you know, maybe the biophotons are the orchestrator of that. I'm going to tell you, biology isn't a fundamental science. What you just said proved my point that I've been making for 20 years, that when we're all sudden done, it's going to come down to we are using the most sophisticated physics inside of cells that anybody can imagine. And that is the truth. Biology is not a fundamental science, but I'm going to tell you biophysics is. And it turns out the biophysics is going on in us is on the low end. We're not doing this stuff. We're not talking, I'm not trying to tell people,

you know, that we're nuclear reactors, that we're doing the stuff that, you know, is on the high end in CERN. But what's happening on the lowest end is the most amazing story ever. Why? Because our reality, everything that's around us, the trees behind you, the trees behind Alexis, the trees behind me, this shit's happening right now as light hits chlorophyll and slows down. That's, that's the story. That is the story I want everybody focused in on.

And it's important. And it's really important. It's important for people to get because if they don't get it, they're going to continue to get sold bullshit from marketers. And that's the problem. That's the reason why the science that, you know, I used to hold, you know, at, you know, a godlike level, I reject. That's the reason why I told the things I said to Alexis, that Alexis, the more you go

down this rabbit hole, the more anger you're going to get because you're going to realize how the science was stolen from us. Yeah. Well, like I say, I'm a positive person. I am too, but at the same time, I'm also, you know, pissed off that basically I spent six years at Princeton doing research didn't actually mean very much at all. It could have been very impactful if I had known what I know now, of course, and had the tools to be able to execute on it. But, you know, it's all just a part of our learning experience, right? And we can only do the best of what we got at the time.

And so I'm excited for the future. Kevin McKearney, he said, the reason he dropped out of the PhD thing is because he really, realize that the return on equity of really sticking with the PhD was not going to move the needle for people out there. And if you really think about, you know, this point, because I think this is a big point for Scott to consider that we all want to move the needle for public health. I don't think there, anybody who's watching this is going to come away saying, no, these people don't care. They really care. It's just that they have a different viewpoint on how things are going. We spend $4 trillion. a year on health and we are the fucking sickest group of motherfuckers on the planet. So guess what that means? Means that how we're looking at the problem is the problem. And we add all hopes that Nicole and Bobby were going to change that. And I mean, look, since December, I have not been very kind to Bobby.

And I'm not planning on getting any kinder because I don't think he's doing the things that need to be done. And the point that I try to make is you need to know who your enemy is. It's all well and good to be optimistic. But don't let your optimism ruin the reality of the situation. Why? Because I'm going to tell you this, Scott, at least in the United States, you have 360 million people that are relying on your wisdom. And out of that 360 million people, there may be only 80 million that get it. And out of that 80 million, there may only be 250,000 savages that really are going to change the world.

And if you want to know the truth, those are the people that I focus on. I'm not interested in the people that go to the dermatologist and say, well, the dermatologist told me the son's bad. Therefore, you know, I'm going to slap that shit on me and wear the sunglasses. That's why I said to you what I said to you in the first 15 or 20 minutes of this podcast. I don't give a shit about the people that buy the party line. Why? Because I already know the data is out there. The problem is they're never going to get it from the dermatologist.

Yeah. Yeah, it is interesting. I mean, as strange as it may sound, we're the only screw-based light bulb. manufacturer in the United States. And we build them here. And it costs a little bloody fortune to make them in some ways compared to other places. But they're even trying to shut us down by putting these stupid rules in place with these rules changes.

Scott, come on down. I can set you up an appointment with the administration. I got news for you. I'm not kidding you either. You can come on down anytime you want. because this is a political sphere where people understand how important light is. Now, unfortunately for you, I have pushed the sun in front of the bulbs. But I will tell you this, in El Salvador, it's even worse than what it is in the States.

Why? This light back here right by my house, if I could shoot it out and get away with it, I'd go with it. So instead, I have this massive bamboo plant that blocks it every night, you know, from my house. So I have to do things, you know, to offset that. The real problem Buceli has, and he said this to me probably a year ago, he goes, Jack, I'm building all these brand new roads. He goes, I even went to China. He goes, I went to the United States.

Nobody has the bulbs that I can put, the amber red bulbs for the streets. He goes, then I went to China. He goes, they don't make him either. He can't get them. Yeah. Well, somebody could fill that market need, and that would be a fortune to be made if you could fill that market need. Not only that, Scott, I would tell you,

with the amount of tourism that Buckelly's getting now, I mean, especially all the gringoes coming out from the United States because of Bitcoin and everything else, when people see those lights and they know that you're, I bet you, but Kelly would let you put your goddamn company name on every lamppost, you know, that's down in El Salvador and say, look, if you want these, you can get them from us. But to be honest, he'd probably want you to come there.

And he would probably be the number one exporter in the world of these light bulbs for you. Why? Because he knows how incredibly important the light is. He's seen it in his own people. I mean, he saw 60 million worth of vaccine injuries that actually were treating these people now by putting it in the light. And I'm teaching people how the light overcomes, you know, the lipid nanoparticles and the spike protein. You got McCullough in the United States telling people about natokinase and this and that. It's total bullshit.

It doesn't work. You know, that's the reason why you go on Twitter every day. You see people, you know, their cognitive abilities. That slide that you showed earlier, that's the answer for them, Scott. Yeah. There needs to be lit. Yeah. Well, that was one of the reasons, you know, when I looked at what they were doing with the nanoparticles in the vaccines,

I said these things are going everywhere. Because I spent 10 years doing nanoparticle research. And one of the cardinal rules is, once you go nano, it goes everywhere. And I know they were trying to increase the efficacy, but they never looked at the safety of the platform, in my opinion. They did not also by design, because, remember, they're trying to taper the Ponzi scheme. I know you as an optimist don't believe that, but me as a guy based in reality, I understand absolutely why they're doing what they're doing.

Well, I think it's unfortunate. But, you know, that's a whole separate debate. But anyway. But. Well, this was fun. We've gone two and a half hours. Is there anything else to be fleshed out? I mean, we can do it again sometime as well.

I think the interesting flush out is going to happen from this one, Alexis, will be when you get a, when you're the moderator between me and Dr. Hazen and she begins to understand the biofotone thing. I think when Scott watches that and he watches back this and he reads Roland Van Wicks book, he's going to go, wait a minute, I got something. Anybody like him. that's come up with the products that he's come up with, that tells me that he's an observer, a thinker, and someone who we need polluting other young minds to go in and do you.

Why? Because we do need more, we need more tools for. I agree. I agree. You know, it started out with just looking at the optics of the body. And the more I dig, the more I find all these biological processes that, I honestly didn't have a clue about. I don't disagree that you can generate photons inside the body by any of the processes you're talking about.

In fact, I think it's actually mandated. But how that then gets to, like I say, you run into the same problem. How do I get from, you know, reactive option species with a half-life of nanosecond to something that is useful for the body on a time scale of milliseconds? And that's going to be, we're not working on that. If I told you where the level is, ato and fento seconds. That's the scales that I'm at. Well, you know, like I say, I'm open to anything as far as it.

And I will read the book and I will listen in. But I do appreciate all the comments. I think you'll enjoy it because I think it's the next generation. Do I think we need you on the generation you're at now to continue to build the products? Yes. do I think you need to keep lighting the fires about hey guys the PBM guys they don't have all the story right yes I can't I can't say that just like I don't go after Wim Hof because I don't have a lot of tools in my toolbox for people outside of the sun and that's the reason I'm at the 13 north latitude why anybody who knows me where you see me sit now is where I am all the time outside No, I mean, I totally agree with you. It's just hard at higher latitudes.

We actually have a little enclosure that I got together so we could have to get out in the sun during the winter. And it's amazing how much it's changed. I'll tell you something else you should get interested in because Ott did it and I'll put the idea in your head. He came up with the plastic that allowed UV and IR to go through. and he built it specifically for greenhouses, you know, because, you know, he'd like to take all those time lapse, photography, things. And he had a hard time when he lived at high latitude. Do you know that that's the reason why he moved to Sarasota?

A lot of people don't know that. No, I didn't know that. Yeah, he went from a high latitude to Sarasota so that he could do the things for, what's his name, Walt Disney, that he did in early 70s and down there. And then he started to come up with, different windows and lights. I think that would be a natural extension of your light bulb issue, but I do think you need to come and visit El Salvador

because you'll get exhaust all your commercial opportunities that you have in the United States. But I think this is so important that for public health, as crazy as this is going to sound, what you potentially could provide mankind is more effective than anything that Dr. Fauci could. Now we're going to get in a lot of trouble. The podcast can take it down.

Well, you know, it is amazing because one of the things I found is that, you know, the DOE set up these standards for light bulbs where they removed all the infrared content and mostly UV content. But they also, at the state and local level, we've mandated the use of low E glass, which blocks the near infrared. Every turn being blocked. Yeah. That's why I'm trying to tell you, Scott, instead of being optimistic, I think in maybe a year or two, you're going to be on Uncle Jack's side. You're going to realize there's a game going on.

Yeah, you may be right. You may be right. But I actually, you know, had a good time. having the conversation. I appreciate it greatly. No problem. Yeah, this was really fun. Thank you both. Go enjoy some sun. This is the one that used to be where you get to go back and forth. Oh, yeah. I don't know. Where did we switch over where you had to be so you couldn't have a good strong argument back and forth? I don't understand. Jason that changed about 25, 30 years ago. even when I go to my neurosurgery meetings now,

when the guy's on the stage and he knows he's absolutely full of shit, nobody will go up to the podium and say it. Why? Because they'll slap a professional conduct issue on you. I mean, you guys are seeing what's going on with Mary Talley Bowden. Yeah. They're trying to take her license away for saying what? How about we just use Ivermectin, you know, because it's been successful?

Oh, no, no, no, no. We can't say that. that let me just tell you something what's happened in the last 30 years in science really if you want to know the big undertone to this whole podcast that's really the big story like we're not allowed to discuss the areas that really disagree and why we disagree we're not allowed to show the papers one of the reasons why i love twitter so much is i get to interact with guys like levin guys like folkmen guys like in the biophysics community and say look, you guys are getting paid millions of dollars through your grants and you keep focusing on the wrong thing. So what do I do? I actually embarrass the fuck out of them on Twitter. I do it all the time. And I'm doing that for a reason.

People think it's because I'm an asshole. I'm really not an asshole. What I'm really pissed off about is that nobody will listen to the other side of the argument when, like, for example, you say to a guy, a lady like Dr. Hayes, explain to me as a gastroenterologist, why you have a vitamin D receptor in your colon. And, you know, because you're sticking that black snake up people's asses all the time, you think that it would come down to asking that question sometimes. Like, why are you doing that to screen for colon cancer? Might the reason that you have a vitamin D receptor in your colon be tied to the reason

why everybody's getting colon cancer? Might that be a better question to ask? It's also, it always pisses me off that like gastroenterologist will use colonel is a routine checkup. Meanwhile, you're destroying the microbial life and the colon every single time you prep somebody for that procedure. So it's like, what are we actually doing there? And, you know, what the implications of course from the light perspective is huge. John and Alexis, here's, here's another one for you. I just want to remind you, because I'm, I'm now trying to punch Scott pretty hard. Remember who Andrew Wakefield was. He was a gastroenterologist from the UK who studied

the mucosa of kids with autism and he found some problems. You know what they did to him? They turned him into a filmmaker. That's right. They did. So you and I are clear about

what's really going on here. Like if you get too close to the truth, my friend, let's put it this way. It's like putting a moth next to a UV light.

Well, I don't disagree. And I, And I want to say one thing. I mean, I had different opinion of you going on. And I appreciate the fact that we can have an open and honest conversation, you know, without me being totally berated for a change. I feel like Jack's pretty reasonable. No, no.

And I do see a genuine need or genuine want to try and get information out. And that's always been my. pet peeve. There was nothing more frustrating than to see all the people dying during COVID and not even look and see whether or not there were some environmental tricks that we could do to reduce the possibility. I even to the point that I mapped out the death rates and for the first time during the first part of COVID, we had actually an air conditioning bump. If you look at the data, you'll see that Texas, Arizona, Florida had an increase in deaths from COVID. Italy, during the same time period, and all the Europeans where they didn't have air conditioning

were exactly the opposite. They didn't show the peak. So, I mean, if there ever was data that showed that air conditioning and removing the reactive oxygen species that we breathe and the sunlight that we get, you know, that data is there. and it's very frustrating when you can't get people to realize that a simple thing like opening a window or not using air conditioning during some particular time frame gives them a benefit. I mean, it's, you know, I can feel Jack's frustration. That's the reason why I had to put most of my information behind a payable.

Payable is only five bucks a month, but guess what? If I didn't do that, I'd be facing the same thing that Mary Talley balance faces right now. but then threatening to take her license. And that's just from this simple little looking here. You don't want to talk. And then backing it up with Nathan. And I want to know why doctors don't know about it. You just hit on it, my friend.

Because guess what? The powers that be are keeping this information away from the people that are on the front lines. But let me tell you something. When I went back in to the hospitals, 40 years ago, I decided to take trauma. I don't think every single one of my members is like, what in the fuck is he doing? They had no earthly idea. Well, guess what? They just found out the story in the last four blocks.

I just found out it was all tied to the hemoglob, the UPEs, how methylene blue works. What really goes on with oxygen? How people really die from ARDS. Guess what? It's a story that the Department of Defense doesn't want doctors to know because if you knew it, then you'd realize when there's no COVID around. Going inside, the only light that Obama gave you. Plus is the same thing, just on a different intensity and duration from long-fair and five. Yeah.

Well, I do agree that it's a, unfortunately, there's not a instantaneous effect that everybody can go, oh, oh, it's a long. term effect. And that's the unfortunate part of the whole argument. That's part of the reason why what's the name, Logan, with the prosperity thing. What did I tell them in the last podcast I did with him? I said, you want to teach people about how this works, go get two plants, but one in fake light and one in sunlight. You'll know within two weeks. So I would tell people who listen to this podcast.

I disagree with Scott. We can't find out. Go try to throw coconuts in New Hampshire and tell me. how well that goes. Well, I think that some of that data is starting to come out out of Glenn's work. He's starting to show very quick changes. We were actually comparing incandescent and LEDs and showing really quick negative effects on our ability to discern color contrast and other things.

So I think more and more is coming out at some point. Maybe as much as we possibly get, we need more people going into this field to blow the narratives up that we can't do things to help ourselves without drugs, supplements, or food. Light prompts all of those things that is fundamental level. If I could say that one thing come out of this podcast, I would love that to be the thing that like Trumps, because it's always, always low on the totem pole compared to everything else. Scott, not for me and not for my job. Anybody who follows me, know that's always been the case for 20 years.

I agree. I agree. I agree, Jack. Everybody else is absolutely aloof, but we're trying to change that. Hopefully podcasts like this, you can sit down with your grandmother and put it on, and your grandma is going to turn around and say, Jack's right. I know the son's good, but we don't go in the sun anymore. Yeah. Grandma knows. Grandma just doesn't talk much. That's why I thought it was so fascinating when I was talking. grandmas used to tell I knew some older ladies that they wouldn't use air conditioning.

And it turns out that they were actually right. Correct. I remember when my grandmother told me in 1960s, don't sit too close to the Magnavox TV because you're going to get x-rays. And I distinctly remember my mother saying, your grandma is crazy. And guess what? I think I was like seven years old. And I found out that grandma wasn't crazy because of a meeting that I had. in a museum of natural history in New York.

And I came home and told my mother, I said, you need to go call grandma up and apologize to it. And I actually made my mother do that. So you've been this way for a long time. I just, I would just tell you that I'm, I'm like that kid that was the most curious kid ever. Like I did not take anybody's word for anything until I examined it for myself.

And then that's how I gained. trust in the system. Like when people, like I remember when I was in third grade going to religious class and the nuns tried to sell me the bullshit, you know, that the earth was only 6,000 years old. I said, you know, last week I was with Ms. Shianazi in the Museum of Natural History and I saw T-Rex. It's 65 million years old. Square that.

Do you know, Scott, did they call my mother in to the Catholic religion instruction place? And my mother asked the nun. She goes, why did you call me in? she goes, did you hear what he said? And she goes, yeah, she goes, do you have something to refute it? So I would just tell you that I think the people that are out there, out of the 360 million people, the people that think like that, those are my savages. That's my target audience.

Unlike you, Scott, I know that there's a lot of people out there that the stuff that we're talking about is too much over their head. They're too interested in Joe Rogan. Starbucks and Netflix to give two fucks about what we're talking about. But let me tell you something. When they come down with a GBM or they get myopia or they get glaucoma, I got news here, they're going to fucking care about your light bulbs then and they're going to care about sunlight and they're going to care about what Alexis podcasts are doing and

what she's doing now. Why? Because then it's going to matter to their life. And the smart people, the real smart ones, they're going to play the prevent defense. I'm going to do this stuff so I don't have to go to the sausage grinder. Yeah. Well, I do believe that. I do believe that the long-term effects.

And the cost, I mean, that was one of the thing that was most frustrating about the DOE petition for me, is that I knew that they had never run any tests to say that there was okay to do this. They just were looking. And they even admitted they didn't use any cost analysis or any, penalty for health. So all the cost numbers for saving energy with light bulbs assume that you were just as healthy before as you are after. That's just not true. I'm going to tell you that that information they did know it was in the MK Ultra files. Patrick Hill was destroyed them in 1973. Unfortunately, Richard Holmes didn't realize that there was a whole other box and file cabinet

in the basement of charity hospital that he didn't get to, that I was fortunate to read, and then all that information from Washington, D.C. got transferred to SRI, Stanford Research Institute. And then it was transferred to the Brain Health Initiative that's guess where it's based? South America and Central America. That's where it is now. They know they give you deniable plausibility, my friend.

And I'm going to tell you the last bit that I'll mention to you about this. The reason they don't know anything about non-AVMF standards, according to Andrew Marino, according to Mike 11, why Michael Levin can get on a podcast. with Alexis and say the bullshit that he said to everybody, it's because the EPA stopped measuring non-negative EMF in the United States. Guess when? 1979.

That gives you deniable plausibility. If you don't measure it, how do you know? One of my early jobs was to design antenna systems and RFI-E-M-I testing systems for avionics. And I built a enclosure that we could do. simulate EMP and things of that nature. But we had to actually make a little bit, be a little careful because we would set off everybody's pacemaker.

Did you guys see the Tucker Carlson interview this week with Kurt Weldon, the former congressman when he came out and physically said that, yeah, of course we got EMPs. Like, I'm going, did everybody just fucking hear that? And what else did he say? Well, yeah, we do have shots that can give me cancer and tell you right away. I'm like, hello, you know, is anybody paying attention out in TV land? I mean, this is coming straight from the guys that know this.

And remember, he was going to be the chairman of the Armed Services Committee before they got rid of them. So, Scott, I'm just telling you, if you haven't listened to that podcast with Tucker Carlson and Kurt, go listen to it and then go listen to any podcast that I did with Danny Jones or the Bullwark guys in the last few years, and I guarantee you, your eyeballs will fall out of your head. I will do that. I appreciate it. And by the way, you have an amazing view. Oh, so stunning.

I actually had a dream last night that I was back visiting, so I feel like it's time to come back. The whole country's closed right now because it's closed in the weekly week. Really? Yeah, there's like, it's like you can't go to the store, you can't. do anything because you know remember it's called el salvador the savior so it starts on monday and goes all the way to sunday everybody's at the beach wow the whole country's at the beach amazing the place you don't want to be this week is down there whatever one else it's a freaking zoo it'll take you three hours to go maybe a mile oh my gosh we got five million people everybody's

at the beach at least they're outside I, Jack, I think one thing that you should stop doing is say, you know, move to El Salvador. I don't think you want everybody to move to El Salvador. They're going to ruin it for you. Well, I look at it like this. I've got my piece of paradise. And as long as I can get the sun for, you know, the back nine of my life, that's really all I care about. I just want to continue to get the message out that even if they take all,

of the good stuff away from us, they can't take outside away from us. You just need to remember that lesson that the ancient Egyptians put out at the 28th North latitude, go outside on the ground. That message is huge. And if you just do that, you know, you can avoid, you know, the fruit loops, the red dye, you know, the keto snacks, you know, the red lights that fucking idiots are going sell you, just remember the truth. Yeah. The truth is nature. That's how we work.

The science that dictates that is quantum mechanics. That's the basic of biophysics. It's not biology. And before I'm done, I'm going to prove it. I have no doubt. I love it. Anyway. Well, let's wrap it.

I need to go get naked and laying the sun. You're missing out. All right. Thank you. Nice to meet you, Jack. Bye-bye. Bye.