Unheard: True Crime in Their Own Words - He Killed His Abuser and Went to Prison | David Garlock

Episode Date: June 15, 2026

At 17 years old, David Garlock and his brother killed the man they say subjected them to years of sexual, physical, and emotional abuse.The crime led to murder convictions and decades-long prison sentences. David ultimately spent more than 13 years behind bars before being released on parole.Today, he is a criminal justice reform advocate, speaker, and survivor who openly discusses what he calls the "trauma-to-prison pipeline"—the connection between childhood trauma, violence, incarceration, and rehabilitation.His story has drawn comparisons to the Menendez brothers, raising many of the same questions that continue to divide the public:Can someone be both a victim and an offender?How should courts evaluate years of abuse when a victim eventually becomes a perpetrator?What does accountability look like after taking a life?And can redemption exist after prison?In this episode of Unheard: True Crime In Their Own Words, David walks through the abuse he says he endured, the events that led to the killing, his years inside prison, and how he rebuilt his life after release.Whether you see his story as one of justice, tragedy, survival, or all three, it challenges many of the assumptions people hold about crime, punishment, and trauma.Listen now and decide for yourself.🎙️ Subscribe to Unheard: True Crime In Their Own Words on your favorite podcast platform.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to Unheard, True Crime in Their Own Words. This is the show where we go past the headlines and hear directly from the people who live them. And today's guest has one of the most powerful, complicated, and important stories that you will ever hear. As a teenager, David Garlock and his brother endured years of sexual abuse at the hands of a man who was supposed to be trusted. Until one night, in an act of desperation, they killed him. Their case in many ways mirrors the infamous Menendez brothers. But unlike that story, David's life after prison became something very different. Instead of letting his past define him, he's transformed.

Instead of letting his past to find him, he's transformed it into a mission. He's delivered TED Talks, spoken at colleges and prisons across the country, and become a leading advocate for criminal justice reform and for survivors of abuse. His story is raw. It's heartbreaking, and it's also one of redemption and resilience. David, thank you so much for being here and sharing your journey with us. Thank you. It's definitely an honor to be here, and thank you for the invitation. So for the listeners, David, if you know, if you follow me on social media, you know that with the Menendez Brothers stuff that I have been an advocate of their release. And whether you agree with me or not, it's kind of irrelevant here. But because of that coverage, David reached out to me and said, hey, I have a story that's similar. Would you be interested in talking? And we spoke. And he shared some of that with me. And I will tell you, I was beyond impressed with the story that he shared not just from what he had to endure and survive.

but also from what he's done since his time in prison. And with that said, David, I'm going to hand it over to you if you don't mind, because again, this is in your own words. Share with the listeners, you know, share your story with them. Yeah, so one of the earliest memories I have was when I was five years old, I was underneath my grandma's kitchen table with my brother. And my dad was chasing my mom and sister with a hacksaw blade during name to kill them. And my grandma had to call the police on her own son. And she was, he was taken away to the

psych ward for the weekend and then was released. Dad had a lot of issues with my sister. And it led to him kicking her out once was 11 years old. During the next six years, she lived on the street or in a group, got addicted, drugs, prostitution, and by 17, she had HIV. When I was nine, my parents got divorced. That was really hard on us because we thought that it was awful. My mom got custody, my brother and me, and four months later, she lost her because she was insufficient love. And she moved down in California, where she met, I was 14 years younger and got married.

But the divorce really put my brother in a very difficult place. My brother was still drinking and using drug and he got caught. And my dad said if you get caught again, you didn't pick out of the house. So right after he became 13, he got caught again, and he was kicked out of the home. He went to a group home and scattered Washington where we were living. And this person who had just gotten out of South Carolina moved to Washington, befriended the person running a group home just so he could have access to young boys. And that's when my brother was molestead for the first time.

This went on for about two early months, a person forced my brother into moving in with him. About two months after that day, he went down to California with my brother, he talked to my mom and said that into coming back to Washington. Now this whole thing there was you can have access to him. The first time I left my mom in two years was January 1st, 1991. The first three hours, four hours were great because I was just connecting with my mom. And I'm a mama's boy and it was so good to see her. But then this person wanted us to go play hiding those people in the basement.

As an 11-year-old, that's what you do. And so I went, found a good hiding spot in a closet. this person found me and started molesting me when it was over i walked up to steps and he pulled me to the side and told me that he would kill me if i ever told anybody and would kill my family so here i am an 11-year-old having to think that i can't tell anybody about what was happening because of the potential of my family and I being killed. That was when it began, and it went on for eight years. Really, it got the worst after I turned 18,

and that was really where the physical abuse got there was a situation. where we had ended up in Louisiana. And I was working at a restaurant with my brother and this person, working third shift. There was a table of three girls and women died. Now, as a leader, you flew to make money. So I was flirting with the three girls. And the bathroom was right next to this table. and I would usually go into the bathroom and count my tips.

So I went into the bathroom and this person followed me in. He started cussing at me, asking what I was doing. And then he put his hands around my neck, pushed me up against the difficultel dispensable, and choked me out. The next thing I know is punching me, to bring me back when I got up, huge gas on it. And I was asking what happened? And he said, he would kill me if I did something like this.

And so those fears that all had of those years came to Forensland. And I knew that he would get me from Louisiana. we ended up in Alabama. We were actually heading up to Ohio where this person was from. And we got stranded in Birmingham and ended up in Jasper, Alabama. Now Jasper is a very small north-west of Birmingham. My brother and I got moms and this person was just at home, on the internet, opening at child pornography, and trying to connect with other kids. He would stand at a restaurant that we were working at to see what we were doing. If we were floating with the matrix, if we were floating with a customer, when we got home, we got the crap beat out of him.

And this happened once or twice a week as far as him standing out of the restaurant. But getting the crap beat out of those happened practically every night. June, I forget things exactly, but it was a Monday in June, was the night that another big place. And I always tell you that in psychology, you have this term seen red. And what it is, you're just filled with rage and hatred, anger. And where the murder was wounded. It took them four months to find the body. Because my brother and I, we didn't have a board.

They just buried the body. So we just buried the body in the backyard where we lived. And so, February, I mean, October 29, 1999 at 9 p.m. I was taken in for a question. They didn't tell me why they wanted to. talk about. So initially there was this small talk when we were heading to the second deal. And by the time we got there, they started asking about the person and where he had talked. So that night, I had told to confess to the time. And so here I am 20 years old,

being arrested in Alabama for a murder child. I'm thinking I'm going to get a best friend. I'm thinking I'm going to get life without parole. So that weekend was the hardest in my life. I'm crying myself to sleep because I'm thinking I'm going to meet Yellow Mama, which is the electric chair that they had in Alabama at that point, which was the moment of execution. November 1st in 2009, I was thinking back to the city jail for questions at 8-Lyama. I was putting in the room and I sat there for 10 years by myself.

They did give me two-packed cigarettes with about 30 minutes. And I was just thinking about the murder. I was thinking about the abuse. I was thinking about everything that transpired. And I finally, when I did that, huge way to open off my kids. Because this is first off my time. ever told me about abuse.

First time I did with the about the murder. And then they brought in the camera and recorded my testimony. And then I was hanging and taken back to the county jail. On the way there, the front seat was detective. And I turned to him like, if I'm going to get the death at the life of the parole. And he's like, do you do you die? I'm like, am I going to get the best of the life? And he's like, do you believe God?

I'm like, am I going to get the best penalty or life in that role? And he's like, do you believe in God? And so finally, I believe in God. He's like, you need to see him now. And that conversation changed the whole trajectory of my life because I didn't know what happened. I didn't know what I was going to get. But I told myself, whatever amount I get, I'm going to do the time until letting the time. And a couple weeks ago, my brother was in Florida. And back in 1999, there was no way for us to be in communication. I mean, we didn't have cell phones. We didn't have any questions.

And his testimony was exactly like none. So here it is people who confessed to this crime hadn't each other in five months. So we didn't have to plan out what would say and why we did what we did. In Alabama, we didn't have money. So we didn't get a public defender. We got court in the lawyers. So, So other people listening are going to know what the court-upended lawyer is. And what it is is a defense attorney who has to do a certain amount of these cases a year.

In Alabama, they got $1,000 for the whole case. Imagine a lawyer working 15 months for $1,000. And our lawyers do not do anything for her. He came to us when we were going to plea out, and he told me that they were going to offer a 25-year plea. Here I am turned 21 years old. And I'm looking at 25 years in court. Then he said something I'll never forget.

He said, hey, if you have to serve all the years, you're still. don't be a young school or five when you get out. And I'm like, I'm thinking like, that is the craziest thing I've heard. But my whole time in Britain was I got better myself improving myself. I got my TV in the county town. I got a draft.

I even got a lot of theology to be a credit at school. And it was just about better myself improving myself. I did hospital. the last 30 years of my incarceration. And that was some of the hardest work that I did, but also some of the most beneficial,

because I was able to care for these men that the Department of Corrections were looking at was just a number. And I was able to be for a family biography. In 2008, Brian Stevens and the Co-Jetlandish initiative, started working with me. And they really couldn't do anything

as an appeal because they're not looking at such a small to appeal. So they wanted both my brother parole and both of us in April 1st in 2013, I was in prison. And my whole mentality then was I'm going to go to college. And I'm going to turn my life as I had already started in prison.

So you've done a lot since then. Let me go back because I know that we've had a conversation prior to this. And I know people might want to know. When you were brought in for questioning, it was because they had found a body, correct? Yeah, they had found the body. And it was around where we were living. And so they pieced it back together with that we were the ones that had lived in that house slash apartment. And so they wanted to come in us.

And so the body, though, they found it. I'm sorry because I don't remember exactly right. So I might have to have your freshman. They had started to do construction in that back area or started to dig something up. And that's kind of, is that act? I might be off on that. And I guess what I don't talk about. because it's going to come in the book.

Okay, fair enough. So, by the way, David is writing a book. And when he's, when it's getting closer to coming out, he'll be back on as a guest. So we can table that discussion for that. So then let's fast forward then because they found the body. They brought you in. They questioned, you know what happened. And so you ended up serving 13 years, correct?

I served 13 and half of a 25-year sentence and was granted parole. Okay. And then you went to college. And you had told me a beautiful story. So, you know, David goes to college. He's on parole. You were living on campus, correct? When I first went up there for the first semester, I was actually running a room in Philly.

And so I was commuting. And I had an 8 a.m. class, which was the worst thing ever. That is brutal. It's brutal when you're on campus. It's torture when you're competing by the train and the hell. it was really. So every morning I had to wake up at 5 a.m. until one of my friends in the first class offered to give me a ride to school every day.

May I just say that I learned very early on in my first semester of college to never do 8 a.m. classes and never do Friday classes. That's what I learned very early on. Just don't, don't do it. So yeah, that is a brutal commute. But what I thought was really beautiful is despite, you know, the fact that you were an ex-con or you

were somebody out that was out on parole with a murder rap sheet you were welcomed with open arms by your community, correct? Yes, I was and that was such a powerful thing. So I met with the dean

the Friday before school and I had met him earlier in late 2000 13 when I toured campus. But he's like, okay, you're a student now probably everything because I need to know all the details. So I shared the whole story

with him and he was like, hey, what do you think about writing a story about testimony, you know, where you were like you did in the prison, being here on people's number. I was like, I was, like, cool. Until the paper was coming out, because I was going to be taking it in front of everybody, and they were going to know everything about me, and no one was going to accept me, and I was going to be, like, blackballed.

But that is the furthest thing from what actually happened. There were some young ladies that came up to me and told me about their own. abusive situations and how they never told anybody, but because I was so open about my story, it empowers them to share with me. There were some other girls who had family members, who were in prison, wanted me to have a reentry plan. And then others were just amazed with my story and the grace and mercy and just redemption of it. And what's crazy is throughout my time, you probably knew about 85% of the students

at Eastern University. There was smaller Christian school, but my personality was always involved with things, talking with people, sharing my story. and just as we will help people. Let me ask you this. And again, anything that you're not comfortable answering,

anything that's coming out in your book, you can obviously pass on. It's your story. There is something I didn't ask you, but I was kind of curious about. So, well, actually,

before I get to that one, if I'm allowed to, because I know we've had this discussion before, but for the listeners, had you not confessed, you might have had a different outcome of what happened, correct? Oh, absolutely.

my lawyer told me right after we were signing the plea deal. He said, if your brother and he never confessed, you would have never gone to prison. They said that there would know for them to identify him by DNA or not control makers. So there was also a four-month period after the month. period after the murder to when we were alive. And it's very similar to the seven months that Eric and Lyle after their murder. And one thing that always irritates when people talk about them going on their spending screen is if my brother had the amount of money they had or access to it, we would have spent

have money too. Because we are in this abusive prison for all of these years. And now we're free. My motto after the murder was sex drugs and rockin. I was still working as a waiter because I had to pay for my drugs. I didn't pay for my alcohol. I mean, I was so crazy that I had the drug dealer come to my word. And I'd have tips in one side of my evening, and I'd have cocaine or marijuana or pills and the other. And that was my mentality. I just wanted to stay high.

I want to stay drunk because that was my focus mechanism. That's how I was dealing with everything that we had done. So let me ask you this. do you did you ever beat yourself up you or your brother about confessing? Yeah, there were times where we were like, oh, man, man, why did we confess? Because we wouldn't be here. And that also goes into like when we think about the Miranda law and what police are supposed to do. And really how they're supposed to tell you that you have the right to tell me.

I mean, the police that were partially made didn't share or talk about anything like that after I had partially confessed. So they already knew that my brother and I didn't. So there was really no walking any of that back. So there are a lot of police out there who are going to use coercive, tricky measures to get somebody to confess. And before I get to, you know, kind of the rest of your sentence and what happened, this is something I haven't asked you yet. Did anybody, like for those four months when he was missing, did anybody miss him? No. I mean, we told everybody that he just picked up and moved back to Ohio and no one missed him.

You know, there was no missing person, no nothing like that. I mean, we worked with our fellow waiters, waitresses, managers. They loved my brother and me. They had become kind of like family, and no one had any concern or cares where he had gone. And, you know, I do want to go back and talk about the Menendez brothers in a few minutes, but this is not about them. It's about you. But I feel like you can draw some very interesting parallels. What we haven't gotten to, but I can.

kind of want the people to know. You were more than just paroled, right? Yeah, actually, yesterday, which was September 14th, was when I was pardon four years ago. It was like winning the $1.6 billion dollar power bomb, because this is Alabama. Let me say that again, this is Alabama. family. And the current

pardon board that I went in front of was very harsh. They were at winning about 10% of parole and about 35% of of parties and not really for people who committed a murder or violent events. Especially in Alabama, as you said. Exactly. The chair of the partner board was really harsh in my hearing. And here I am showing my story. And she kept coming out with these different questions.

And I could sense that she was not for me getting the partner. What was really amazing was the other board first asked me a question, had me baffled. He's like, do you feel like your situation was domestic violence? I'm sitting there. I'm thinking, okay, don't you have to be in a relationship of choosing to have a domestic relationship? You don't.

And that's what he said. You don't have to take it in there, but do you feel like you were being physically in psychily abused? do you feel like you could get out of this situation? I'm like, yeah. And I was like, wow, we were experiencing domestic violence. And we went back to the process and they came back out. The chair said that it was a two to one vote.

Her vote was obviously no. And they said you. are granted your pardon and her vindictiveness came out in the next day where she said

they're getting all of your rights back you can vote I was like been voting since 2014 because Pennsylvania doesn't have felony disenfranchise me she's like

what and she's like you're not getting your gun rights now if you want your gun rights back you can go through this whole planning process again to get your gun

right. And so I just I live in Pennsylvania, have a bow and arrow, why do I need a gun? There you go. You know, I kind of,

it's funny when we keep saying Alabama on this, I kind of want to get that clip from my cousin Vinnie, you know, where he's like, you know, you're in Alabama. You killed a good old boy,

you know, that whole thing. There's no way you're not going to prison. because it is it's like that the south is very very hard very hard on on murder no matter the circumstance

so so that's why I think that one of the most impressive aspects of the story is is the fact that he got a pardon and the fact that you know you had you had people on that pardon board that looked at your story and saw what you went through and was like this this guy doesn't deserve this or these guys don't deserve this because your brother got pardoned

too, correct? Yes, he got pardoned in, I believe it was 2018. Okay, so, you know, you guys went through a situation and I agree. And yeah, it is domestic violence, you know, it's, it's sexual, you know, it's kind of the same concept, I guess, is, you know, not exactly, but, you know, like a spouse, like, people don't think like, oh, you know, if I'm in a relationship with or something and they force me to have sex with them, that spouse will, it is. It's still rape. If a no is a no, you know, if he's coming to your place, work if he's beating you every night when you come home that is a hundred percent domestic violence and and unfortunately and we'll have i don't know um i'm going to record it hopefully soon but jim

smit um is going to be one of the guests probably probably with nicky who is gabby petito's stepfather bonus father and i love him to death but he is a walking encyclopedia when it comes to domestic violence stats because after gabby died um or i'll say she died after gabby was murdered um you know he that's really something that he took to hearts and and you know the thing that people need to understand and i know that typically the people who consume this type of content what we're talking about it's usually women and and yes and i'm going to come back to the statement in a second yes men get abused you're living proof of that but a lot of times women really resonate with what we're what we're saying here and they get it they'll nod their heads like yep that's you know that's the case but

you're lucky he could have easily taken your life obviously you were in fear of your life and that's something that's unfortunately a very big risk. I think Jim told me too, that if somebody chokes you, whether it's like a sexual thing or as a violence, a threat thing, there is a 750% more likely chance that they will kill you.

750% higher. So the numbers are staggering. So yeah, I mean, you were absolutely in that, and I feel like you were in your rights to defend yourself and you did what you had to do.

Let me circle backwards. Again, this is not a Menendez episode at all. I don't want to take away from your story for them, but you brought them up, so I'm going to do that real quick. And in saying so, before we get into what I'm going to ask you about this, I want people to go back and think that, hey, this is not 2025, you know, 2024, 26, whatever it is when you're listening to this, we're recording it 25. This is 1999. As David said, cell phones existed, but they were incredibly expensive. You had to pay for minutes. And somebody who doesn't have a lot of money working.

as a waiter, he's not going, you know, you might have had a pager. You know, we had pagers back. You didn't have that. That might have been the best we had, right? You had internet, but it was expensive and you had to pay by the hour when you, you used to get those AOL discs, right, that like you have, you know, 7,500 minutes of AOL or hours or whatever it was. And so it was a very different time, you know, period as far as the way this kind of stuff

goes. And part of me saying that is the same thing if people who followed me in the past who haven't, you know, haven't heard me. or who've heard me speak before, when you look at like the Meninda's trial, when you look at your trial, that was not something you could fake. Like right now, I could probably, if I wanted to be a complete epic douchebag, could probably go on chat GPT and say, hey, I need to know how to act like I was sexually abused. And it would give me that. And then I'd have to figure out that's a different thing. But in 1989 for them, 1999 for you, you didn't have that. Right? You couldn't just,

you didn't have all of this at your fingertips. The web was still very, very new. There wasn't a lot out there. I mean, the websites were incredibly rudimentary. And you might have gotten in Carta on CDR, or you might have had your block of encyclopedias that you had behind you, but you didn't have enough information that you could become an expert on faking sexual abuse. And I say that for Eric and Lyle Menendez, and I say that for you as well.

And I want people to be able to understand that. The other thing that I want people to understand is, you know, when you look at this type of a situation through the lens of 2025, to say, to make the statement, boys can't be abused sounds absurd and asinine. But in 1999, it wasn't. Boys didn't get abused. At least that's what was the consensus. And the consensus also with a lot of girls was, oh, your uncle did this to you, you so-and-so did this to you. What were you doing to tempt them? the blame always fell back on the victims. And so what are victims and survivors supposed to do in these situations? And even today, you know, I do a lot of stories on this. Even today, the system continues to fail victims of domestic violence, victims of sexual assault. And so I bring that up just to kind of paint a picture for people who are either listening to this and were too young to remember what it was like back then or, you know, it's been a long time since 1999.

And, you know, maybe they just need a reminder of what it was, but it was the world that existed then, much less than 89 for Eric and Lyle. But the world that existed for you does not exist anymore for both of us, because I was alive to two. It doesn't exist anymore, but you couldn't fake this back then. Yeah. And you made a good point as far as the way that people who are abused blame themselves and get victim blame. I was in the behavior and my fitness program in 2001. And I was reading this child sexual, child,

this sexual, the sexual, the self-help, about child sexual abuse. And in this book, it came to describing the way that people who are views as children,

and blame themselves. And so I was able to have this, like, aha moment where I was able to put an 11-year-old and tell them that it wasn't a powerful. And that was this so powerful. Another thing as far as what you were talking about, as far as coming up with an idea or fake people. Our mom, when we were in the county,

after a couple of us writing us, wanted us to write her at length and tell her everything that happened. So it was March 2000, and we sat down Friday night at 3 p.m. It started writing a day. It took us all week ago. that letter. Now, I'm not somebody who is big handwritten, so I write like a writer. We wrote a 30 page in our front and back from day one brother to the night of time. We sent that. We didn't hear it back until August. And the letter that we got wasn't my mind writing. It was a my stepdad was it looked like chicken straps. I opened the letter. There's a small little from my stepdad. He said, your mom died of a massive heart attack writing this letter to

begin. She had finished my life and was half of the brother's left. And that was refreshing. and I've read that I started very much for her and thinking that if we didn't want to be she probably would still live and it's really rising a lot more

here the past days because in about weeks I'd turn 46 and that's a I mean this pass away. So it's really hitting me a lot

week or two. You know that wasn't your fault though, right? Yeah. I mean, logically. I mean, I know that sometimes it's easy to say that and in your head you still, but if the letter something else would have, you know, there was obviously something I just want you to know that

I mean, that wasn't your fault. And I'm so sorry. I didn't know that part of the story. So so I'm so sorry. But, I mean, that's a lot of pain that you've had to endure in a pretty short period of time in your early life. Go ahead. Yeah, but I always told people, you know, it was a past in the Bible. I can print those one before. It says God is God of all.

And tender mercy. We comforts us. We can comfort others. And that's what I do with now. I'm able to create it and educate the generation. I'm able to comfort who have similar stories. I'm able to go into prisons and give encouragement and hope as individuals who are incarcerated to know that they can be successful just like I have.

And I think your story is incredible. And that's what I kind of said at the beginning of this for people, you know, listening, that your story is one of survival. It's one of resilience. And it's one of extreme growth, you know, of everything that happened, everything that you went through. It's really quite extraordinary. And I can, you know, it's very obvious. When you reached out to me and I heard your story, I was, you know, obviously that's why we're doing this.

But, you know, it's easy to see why you're invited to speak. And just so people know, David's traveling right now to speak. You know, we had to figure out of time, you know, after he does what he's doing and the time that worked for me so that we could record this because he's traveling, giving talks, literally making a difference. But you can see why he's done the TEDx talks. You can see why he's being brought in. It's really quite a powerful story.

Now, I might try to figure out a way to get you on when we do them and when I record them in his episode, whether it's with them or whether it's afterwards because I think you bring valuable insight to that. But let me kind of touch on this real quick, because you kind of brought up. You know, when you reached out to me initially, you know, what you'd said was pretty powerful, which was, you know, you're talking about the Menendez brothers and you're saying, you know, I know what this is like because this was, this was us, this was myself and my brother. Right now, obviously they went up for parole. They were both denied. The parole board was

pretty hard on them, basically. But in California, not overly surprising. I think that it's, you know, what I've told people is basically 13% of people. make parole in California the first time they go up against the parole board. You factor in murder. That's going to lower that number. And you factor in the infamy and the notoriety of a case like, I mean, you know, most people, if you say Menendez brothers, you know who the Menendez brothers are. It's an very, it's arguably one of the most famous murder cases, period. But I think that that probably didn't help them. And, you know, they're going to be squeaky clean for maybe 18 months. but, you know, is there anything, you know, again, this is your episode, this is not their episode,

but is there anything that you want to kind of add to that for people who are listening that might be on the fence with them? I mean, how much time do we have? I mean, you know, that's really up to you. Let me ask, okay, let me do it this way, because here's one of the biggest, the two things. One of them you already touched on was the spending spree, and the other thing is that they're faking the abuse. Why, this is, here's a good one.

Okay. respond to they're faking the abuse and respond to why didn't they just leave. We'll do those two. Let me look on to why they didn't leave first. Just think about this. Eric had already been arrested by the police for the robbery. So that, like there in itself, if they went and tried to tell the police what was going on, they're going to be like, wait, aren't you the person that just robbed these houses?

why should we believe you? And so that instance where they already had involvement in the legal system was going to take credibility. As far as running, what were they going to do? Where were they going to? And then who were running away from them? They were running away from those in Mendezance. who had the money, who had the ability to track them down and bring them back. So they're in this prison of abuse, and they feel like they have no way out.

So they created their own way. Was it the right thing to do? I mean, I always have to look at the fact that I took somebody's life. I wish things different. But at that moment, my brother and I felt I was the only way out of the situation, and that's how arrogant I don't know. Now we get through faking abuse. I don't care how many books you read or somebody tries to tell you, okay, this is what you're going to say or that's what you can say. you can see if you watch the video files what they went on the pain I mean you can

but you're going to see the raw in the way that they were talking about abuse talking about what they had to do talking about how it happened, what happened, what the internet were. Let me just think about how one of them had family members, hey, this happened to YouTube. That was a crime for help, but no one really paid attention to it and really dug into it. That could have been a thing that blew everything. But no one did. Also 19-8-9. You weren't really having a conversation.

And when things were happening like this, they were an elephant at times. You know, people knew it was a lot, but they didn't speak. And I appreciate you kind of saying all that because I think that's been kind of the biggest thing. And I agree. I agree with, you know,

you've watched that trial. either they deserve an Oscar or the abuse was real. And I tend to believe there were certain specifics that there's no way you would have come up with if you're trying to concoct a story. You know, and that, you know, and especially back then, you know, now you could watch SVU or other things like that and get a lot of details of how sexual abuse, sexual assault. The results who committed like that. This is in 1989. There's no law and order SUV.

There's no really internet accessibility for them to research something like to create and fabricate a story right. Especially while they're separated. Yeah.

Yeah, it's very difficult. I wanted you to touch on that because you have a unique perspective that pretty much nobody else has. You know? Yeah. I would imagine there's only a handful of y'all. I don't think there's another set of

brothers besides the Menendez brothers and mine of our brothers who both committed a murder to escape abuse. I mean, not that I'm aware of either. So, David, before we close, a couple things. First, is there anything that I haven't asked or anything that you want to share that we haven't gone over is going to be the first part of it. The next part of it is for people who might want to follow you or find you or any type of socials, websites, whatever that you want to share, you are welcome to promote any of that kind of

stuff and tell people, because I'm sure people probably want to follow you and learn more about you as you post and stuff like that. So feel free to, you know, whatever you'd like. And we can, real quick, we'll put links to whatever he wants to with, you know, any socials, whatever, in the show notes. So you can go there and click them if you need to. Yeah, well, all my socials are David Lee Garlock. So very easy. My picture is on all of them. I'd say that in my TED Act, it's called Beyond the Mask, overcoming abuse of trauma. And one thing you can really see that the Menendez brothers did is something I did. We had to create these masks.

No one could know what was going on. Do you think Eric's coach knew anything? you didn't think any of their friends knew what was going to be. But those were and should have been people who they could have trusted and shared this with. But they created these masks. And in my 10-A talk about the things that allowed me to take away to discard these masks. And I've served them already in this podcast. The first thing we were addressing to the client.

Because this time I told him, just think about Eric and who did he help to get this off with a psychiatrist. The second thing was the interaction with the detective about my faith. And then the third thing was reading the book about sexual abuse and being able to have that conversation with an 11-year-old date. And there is one other thing. I'm like to talk about real quickly. It's an analogy that came up with about trauma.

So you have people either a stab or a scar. So if somebody would mean that they have trauma. And we know if we have a and somebody

knocked out is going to bleed painful. But another scale now if that scale, knocked off, the bleed is going to be painful again. And this is really about the technical process of trauma and the person doesn't seek counseling or some type of faith to help them deal with that. Now the other individual is a score. Now, if I have a score

and I hit it, it's not going to be. It's not going to be painful. It's not going to be painful. But I can look at this core and remember that I was 15 years old. I fell off a bike, had to go get 13 stitches. The nurse's assistant was really cute, and I wanted to talk to her that didn't that she would like me. I was too young. But we remember everything about that is man. And that's how we are with trauma when we are healed from it.

But the other component that we can do with that score is we can take that forward and we can show somebody who has a scaler that healing is possible. So I always tell people that when I can speak in university and speak in prison, when I can purchase, what I'm able to do is to share my life and let people know possible. I think that's great. And I wouldn't, well, let me ask you two before I say that before I close out. Are you allowed to share the link to your TED Talk? Yeah. If you want to send that over to me, we'll put that in the show notes too for anybody who wants to look at it. So they can have that.

But David, I just, I really want to say that I appreciate you coming on. I know that we talked before this when we scheduled this. And I appreciate you trusting me to share your story. And it's a very powerful one, I think. And I know I told you before that. been, I don't know if excited to the right word, but I've been very, maybe excited, anxious, whatever it is, looking forward to having this discussion, because I think it's such an important discussion from, you know, from everything that you

went through to what you did, to where you are now. It's a remarkable journey. You're a pretty incredible person, and I truly appreciate you and trusting me with your story. Well, I definitely appreciate it. I appreciate you being able to have a platform where we can have conversations. conversations and individuals to hear

stories like and others allow them to have different perspectives well thank you so much well thank you so much for coming on today I appreciate it and we'll see everybody next time

by y'all the views and opinions expressed in this episode are solely those of the individual speaking and do not necessarily reflect those of the host unheard is intended to provide a platform for personal stories and lived experience not to establish facts, determine guilt, innocence, or provide legal, medical, or professional advice. Listeners are encouraged to conduct their own research and form their own conclusions.

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