Unheard: True Crime in Their Own Words - My Nonverbal Son Was Being Abused and Couldn't Tell Me | Jessica Vestal

Episode Date: June 22, 2026

When Jessica Vestal's son Dax started coming home with bruises and injuries, she knew something wasn't right.The problem was that Dax is nonverbal. He couldn't tell her what was happening.What Jessica eventually uncovered led to criminal charges, national attention, and difficult questions about how vulnerable children are protected when they can't speak for themselves.In this episode of Unheard: True Crime In Their Own Words, Jessica shares Dax's story, the warning signs she saw, the fight for answers, and what happened after the truth finally came to light.Follow Unheard: True Crime In Their Own Words, for more conversations with the people at the center of the stories making headlines.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Imagine knowing your child is being hurt. You see the bruises. You notice the changes. You know something is wrong. But your child can't tell you who did it. Can't tell you where it happened and can't tell you when it happened and can't tell you how to make it stop. For months, Jessica Vestel searched for answers after noticing unexplained injuries and troubling changes in her 10-year-old son, Zach, who is nonverbal and autistic. What she eventually uncovered would horrify parents across the country and expose allegations of abuse involved.

some society's most vulnerable children. This isn't just the story of a criminal case. It's the story of a mother who refused to accept excuses, a mother who kept pushing when others told her not to worry, a mother whose determination uncovered what her son could not say for himself. Today, Jessica joins me to talk about Dax, the warning signs she saw, the fight to get answers, and what every parent needs to know about protecting children who may not have a voice. This is unheard, true crime in their own words, and Jessica, thank you for coming to the show. just thank you for joining me. Tell us a little about the story of what you guys kind of have going on and where

everything is at today. Today we are about a little over a month and some change away from Kira Jones being sentenced. We have settled with the school district and our lawsuit was filed with the Joshua School on New Year's Eve. So that's where A lot going on All the little markers are A lot going on

So when did this all start? Because I know I remember covering this story When your son Dax was getting Abused on the bus I remember when it came out Was that like It's been like a year now right

Close to It was March 24 That I found out Been in almost two years Yeah Time flies So let's go back to that time period. Kind of what was going on.

What started to make you kind of question, you know, his well-being and reach out. I guess just walk us through kind of what that looked like for you. So March 18th was the day that kind of ended everything going on with him, you know, the physical abuse anyways. but I had been making complaints and, you know, I have pages and pages of conversations between myself and the school staff back and forth. Nearly every day, sometimes multiple times about different behaviors that I was seeing at home and are you seeing this at school too? And then, of course, the injuries. I have like a stack of papers because Dax is not speaking. We have had what was called a back and forth sheet and it's pretty,

pretty much just that back and forth sheet. So I write how his morning was, how his night was, and then at the end of the day, they'll fill their portion out and tell me how his day was at school. And because I can't ask him, you know, did you have a bad day at school today? Did anybody hurt you? Anything like that.

So I have a stack of those that I sticky noted every time that there was like an unknown injury or bruise or Mark or. or, you know, really high behaviors. So it was that kind of situation between pretty much January and March. And then the 18th was a day after he had already come home in January with a bunch of bruises all over him that I never got an answer for. Well, eventually I did, but not from the school. So by March, I was already, I had had it with non-answers and, you know, these things being chalked up to, he's just autistic and this is just a part of that.

And, you know, sometimes that is true, but obviously in this case, that was not what was happening. So March he comes home and he has a huge bruise all over the top of his foot and it's a very strange bruise. It's not like a solid mark. It was like spotted. There was like different pressure points where it was a deeper ruse than it was in other spots. And I just lost it. I texted the paraprofessional that now I know caused that bruise and asked her, did he do anything weird on the bus?

I messaged the school staff and ask essentially what the hell is this? why, you know, there's nothing marked on his form from school saying that he hurt himself or any explanation for what this is. And at that point, I was just like, someone's going to give me an answer or I'm calling the police. Like, I'm done trying to fish for an explanation and nothing is really satiating what I feel is wrong. And it was the same thing. The school told me that they didn't see it at dismissal, which was true. because it wasn't there.

And the paraprofessional told me, you know, he didn't do anything weird on the bus. So I don't know. And so I told all of them, okay, I'm going to just, I'm going to go look at the video myself. Because someone is lying to me. And the only thing that I know is true 100% is that I didn't put this mark here. And that is the only thing that I have to go off of because he can't tell me anything. And I don't feel like everyone is telling me the truth. So I sent a picture of the bruise to the director or my contact rather at the transportation

department for the school district and asked her, you know, this happened. Nobody knows where it came from. I would like to see if there's anything to see. So she must have already been gone by that time that I messaged her because it was about like 4.45, I think. His bus ride home was 45. minutes. So the next morning, she emailed me back. I kept him home or no, he rode the bus to school in the morning because I didn't know anything that happened on the bus yet. And she'd emailed

me back at about 1030 or 11 and said that she was looking into this. And then very shortly after that, I got a phone call from Sergeant John and Evans with the police department letting me know he said we have enough to arrest her. I had no idea what he was talking about. I didn't know who her was or what was enough. I cannot explain or state enough how far out of the realm of options this paraprofessional was on my personal list of suspects. I thought it was someone at the school for sure. And that was both her manipulation

of me and building a friendship with me, but also planting seeds along the way, um, sowing seeds of distrust within the school. Um, for example, in January, she, before I even saw the bruises on him in January,

she preemptively planted a seed and told me that the staff member who was bringing decks to the bus, Dax must be afraid of him or not like him because he was dropping to the ground and pushing him away, which were not typical behaviors of his. And so that set me on high alert. And then when he got home and I saw all the bruises on him, it was already laid out, you know? So I never in a million years would have thought that it was her. And so the detective or sergeant rather, started.

starts telling me what he's seen on the video. And he's graphically explaining it, saying, you know, she's elbowing him, she's punching him, she's stomping on him, hitting his head against the window. And hearing that is awful. I couldn't tell you really what I did after that because I don't know. but no matter how explicit he wasn't explaining what he saw there was absolutely no preparation for watching that be done who your child by someone that you trust so that was that's kind of what led us to this point and then from there you know the district was

like, well, if you don't want him to take the bus anymore, we'll reimburse your mileage if you want to drive him to school. It's like, okay, I, I just watched this. Yeah. I'm not going to fill out a reimbursement form right now, but that's a wild thing to say in this moment. But it was, it was a very crazy few hours. I went and got him. from school, obviously. Let them all know. And that was March 19th. This is kind of when the legal ball started rolling.

But that was what led us to that point. And how old was Dax while this was going on? He was, oh, I'm not good at birthday math. He was 11. So, so, yeah, obviously little kids. And what we've learned since then is that he wasn't the only one, correct? I mean, you don't have to get to details of obviously other parents, but there were at least two other children with autism that she was targeting, correct? Yeah, and this is kind of an important thing that doesn't really get talked about.

I don't know if there's kind of like a misunderstanding of how this process works. but our lawyers represent us on the civil side of things. So this criminal case for her to go to prison is literally the state of Colorado versus Kira Jones. So I have no say in how that case is handled, what charges are pressed. I don't have a say in any of that. I will say our district attorney, after talking to lots of other parents who have experienced similar things to this, we really have like the unicorn of district attorneys. He is such a good person and just radiates. Like it radiates off of him how much he cares about our kids and making sure that he can get.

as much of a version of justice is allowable to him. So I just want to say that. But there were other kids who rode the bus. So it was one of the smaller buses. And there was, I think, six kids total. And there were three named victims. So the process of naming those victims is the police investigators, the detectives, alongside the district attorney.

This is my understanding, of course. review all of that bus footage and there were dozens and dozens of hours of bus footage and then go minute by minute. You know, she was doing this at this minute and this at this minute through the entirety of the footage available to them. And based off of that evidence, they press charges and name victims. So I don't get a say in who was a named victim. And there's kind of, I don't know if you want to include this or not, it's up to you. But there's another parent who is insistent that her kid was injured on the bus. And it's kind of like aimed her daggers at me saying that he's not, there's no charges for her son because I don't like her.

I don't know her. Well, you don't have control over that. I don't. And I don't know if that is something that she's unaware of or. is choosing to ignore. Obviously, I want this person, Kiera, to be in prison forever. There will never be a just prison sentence

for her because it's my kid and nothing will ever be good enough. However, objectively, obviously, you know, judges see worse things all the time as far as severity of crimes go, murder and homicide and all of that. this isn't that but it's still for me as his mom the biggest thing that we'll ever deal with so anything that would would further put her in jail whether it was another victim or a harsher

charge applied obviously i don't want there to be more victims but surely you know what i'm saying i would not be against any information that is factual that would put her in prison longer. So that's kind of been a weird thing that I've been dealing with. That's a weird take. I'm not trying to be whatever with a parent, but that's a very strange take to have. And I want to go back, because you said this earlier and for people to understand this too, because I think that you bring up a really good point that people don't understand it.

When it's a court case, a criminal case, they might choose to involve the families, meaning like they might say, hey, this is what we're going to do. We're going to bring them in. Hey, what do you think if we do a plea deal? what do you think if we do this? But ultimately, they might talk to the families, they might listen to the families, but they don't have to take that input. They can do whatever they want.

And like you said, in this particular case, it is the state of Colorado versus Kiera Jones, right? So this isn't you, this isn't the other parents. And so people need to understand that. And yes, with the civil case, it's different. And so let's even, let's go there too. So for this specific example, when you have a parent saying, hey, my kid was in, two, but you're blocking this from happening from charges. Well, she still has the avenue of civil litigation where the burden of proof is significantly less. Yeah. You know, and so I think that's

a straight. Hopefully she hears this and kind of learns that, you know, we're not picking on her, but like there's a process to this. Yeah. And, and you should do, but for all people know, it's like, you know, one of the most more recent cases that was big was like Idaho. People were very frustrated that you had these four parents whose kids were brutally murdered at the University of Idaho. and none of them were really happy with what happened. You know, they didn't have a choice. It was up to the state of Idaho. So yeah, kind of the same thing here.

Yeah. And like I said, our district attorney is wonderful. You know, there was a lot of confusion for me personally around the plea agreement because she did take a plea agreement. And throughout the entirety of this criminal case, which has, she gets sentenced on March 18th, which is, which is. it was a coincidence but by some weird coincidence of the universe she's going to get sentenced on the last day that she hurt my kid two years later um but throughout the entirety of this process he was very clear on i have no need for a plea a plea is something you do when you need something out of somebody i don't need anything from her everything that she did i have it's It's on HD 4K video. Like there's no question. And we were all fine to go to trial.

And ours was a little bit of a unique scenario because our kids are all non-speaking. So we didn't have to weigh or worry about the, you know, a lot of people avoid trial because they don't want their kids to have to go testify and be put through that. And if that were the case, unless it were something that Dax wanted to do. do and was able to verbalize that, I would obviously not want a trial. But in this instance, our kids testifying was never an option. It would be us testifying on their behalf. So I was ready to do that because a trial in my eyes would really be the only thing that I could do legally to put her on display and for people to see and hear everything that she did. Because, you know, at this this point, it's just that two-minute video that's been circulating over the years.

There are hours. We had to go for multiple days to review the snipped version of just instance by instance of her abuse on the bus. And that took multiple days. Over the course of this process, you know, he has said that there is no need for a plea and I'm not interested and she doesn't have anything to offer me. So we had a meeting. with him to prep for trial to just kind of go over, you know, the defense could ask you this, answer truthfully, tell your side of the story, what you know to be true. And it was kind of just a, this is probably what they're going to say, meeting. And I asked at that meeting, there's still no talk of a plea or anything like that, right? And he was like, nope, there's not. And then I think

it was maybe three days later, we got an email that said he was offering, or he was accepting a plea for her. And I immediately was through the roof. I was, I felt, this whole thing has kind of shown me that I cannot trust the people that I think I can trust because, you know, it was the paraprofessional, it was the school staff, it was people within the district. And I thought he was just added to that list and I was heartbroken because he was such a good person thus far. I said I just asked him three days ago, you know, if there was a plea on the table and he was accepting it, that's something that takes a little bit of time to mull over and in way pros and cons. So he must have known when I asked him. But it turns out he didn't. And he is still a wonderful

person. And I told him the same. He had a meeting. I was like, Listen, I thought this is going to be a very different meeting. I was very upset with you. And he was like, you're allowed to be upset with me. But I don't think it's for this reason. And I was like, no. But she had, or the defense rather, had asked for a plea to just drop the one charge that had the mandatory sentencing of, I think it was 10 to 32 years for a serious bodily injury. and she pled guilty to 10 other felonies and two misdemeanors.

A plea deal is not, I'm sure you've seen, you know, people don't take... I've seen some garbage plea deals. 10 felonies. So the fact that she pled guilty to everything that she was originally charged with because that SBI charge was tacked on October of last year. So it was a later addition. So she pled guilty to everything that she was charged. with initially and a lot of people, I'm unfortunately can't help myself when it comes to

comments on news posts. I usually don't respond or say anything. I get it. I do read them. And it's just kind of baffling. I don't know if people think like we're not real people or or we don't also have access to the internet on public posts. But I see the things that people say. And like 95% of are people being kind and we, you know, I hope she rots and real, those kinds of sentiments. But every once in a while, there's a comment that's like, oh, these parents are lazy because they've agreed to this plea thing. And now she's pleading to lesser charges. Well, this goes back to that conversation that you don't really have a choice, though. I don't.

But I do agree with this plea for what it's worth, because. It is beneficial to us because that was my anger. I was like, we are two weeks away from our scheduled trial date at that time. This is not serving us in any way. This is not saving us any time or any heartache from trial or anything like that. We were all mentally and physically prepared to go into trial and tell the story of what happened. This was her grasping at straws because she had run out of time. time and she was getting nervous. That's what I saw it as. So I couldn't understand the benefit

for us of being okay with this. Even if I was, you know, adamantly against it, like you said, it wouldn't have battered. If that's what they decided to do, that's their call. But with her guilty plea, like I said, she's pleading guilty to everything that she was originally charged for. it removes her ability to appeal and there's no going backwards. Once she is sentenced on the 18th, that is over and done with. And we can actually like close the book on it, put it away and move on to the next obstacle. That is healing. Yeah.

So I'm okay with this plea. So I've seen a lot of really bad plea deals. This does not sound like a bad plea deal. how long, I mean, obviously you don't know till the 18th, but how long is she, do they think she's looking at? It's, this is just all speculation. The charges that she pled to are, I think it's like an 18, one year to an 18 month suggested sentence. And then obviously probation eligible. She also doesn't have a record on paper.

So first offender? I say on paper heavily because she's never been caught before. I have had people reach out to me from other states and within Colorado as well about their story of things that allegedly happened with her and their children that they tried to press charges for and one thing or another went wrong. and it didn't pan out and then she fled here and unfortunately became my problem. So that's something that I will be addressing in my victim impact statement is the, you know, the pattern of behavior here. She also just, I saw, she was on a court docket for neglect, delinquent neglect, I think, was the, the abbreviation regarding

I presume her own kids in January. So this is not you know, when I saw the video She's an habitual offender. This was not her first time or day hurting a kid. And this isn't the first kid that she's hurt.

And that that is solidified in my mind, but it doesn't exist on paper anywhere. So, you know. Most of the time when people get caught, most time when people get caught, it's not their first time.

Right. That's just statistically accurate. You know, Ted Bundy wasn't a murderer until he was charged of murder. So, yeah. But he was. So with that, all of these charges are technically probation eligible. I can't imagine a universe that a judge will view all of this video, such and evidence and say she's eligible for probation.

And our judge has also been very kind to us. I have a lot of faith in her. So it's up to her at the end of the day. The ballpark that's in my mind that I've kind of just tried to start becoming okay with. Because like I said, you know, whatever the number is, it's not going to fill what happened to Dax. So I have been kind of playing around with five to ten years. If she were to give the suggested sentencing for each of the felonies and run them consecutively, not concurrently, it could be like 15 years.

Okay. I don't think that that will happen. That would be really cool if it did. But I'm trying to like taper my expectations and be realistic in what it's going to be. but I've sent the judge. I sent her a couple weeks ago. Like, I think it was like a 43-page document of statements from the community and friends and family members to the judge asking her to give out the maximum sentence that she can under the law and run it consecutively to send a message. Because our, what happened to Dax and the boys on the bus is not.

unique. This is not the first time that this has happened. It's not the last time it will happen. Because our kids, non-speaking kids and kids with disabilities are disabled kids are two to three times more likely to be abused and non-speaking kids are four times more likely to be abused because they cannot tell on you. So it is. It's disgusting. Every time I start digging, I just find more filth. It's the statistics that surround this are almost as infuriating as the crime itself. It's awful. But if this judge uses this as, you know, a way to send a message and use this as a deterrent for other people who want to hurt kids, I think it would be beneficial to our student population or, you know, children's population in the long run because, you know, if the,

if the crime for robbing a bank was probation, there would probably be a lot more people that rob banks. But yeah. So if the crime is so low and lenient, why wouldn't they take their chances? If this is someone who has set out in their mind, I'm going to hurt kids and I'm going to put myself in a position to make that really easily attainable for me. And if I get caught, it's probably not a big deal anyways. Of course they're going to do that. So I hope that she uses it and she hears us and the community as well that this needs to set an example for future judges who sentenced these crimes and future abusers to hopefully stop them from committing these crimes. But that's my pipe dream.

It would send a great message if Littleton was it, is it Arapaho County? Is that what it is? It's Arapaho County Court. Our school district is Littleton School District. Okay. Well, it would be nice, though, like from the legal standpoint, if, you know, Littleton and the county were like, hey, you harm a child, this is what's going to happen. Because, you know, I mean, I know you follow my regular content,

and there is so many crimes against children, like an unimaginable amount. And oftentimes, so many of them walk away with so very little. And, you know, when you're talking about kids, you're already talking about the most vulnerable, right? Like how, you know, I have a six-year-old, right, a little girl. And she's like the sweetest, like, kindest, you know, innocent, trusting, you know, person that I know, ever have known. and like why somebody would want to take somebody like that, this, the, the sheer joy and innocence of somebody like that and destroy it. And then you add on the fact that somebody's disabled.

So that's more vulnerable than even, you know, a, you know, a child that was born, you know, completely able-bodied. And then you add nonverbal to it as well. It's just, it's a special kind of disgusting to, to harm. child, but especially a child like Dax or these other kids. And you probably don't know this oftentimes motives or never know, but do we know, like, I mean,

it sounds like she's a serial offender, you know, this is just the first time she's been caught. Do you do you have any idea, like has she said do you know why she was doing this? Do they have any inclination? Like, was it just like she couldn't help herself? Or?

I, you know, I'm going to tell you a little inside story that I've not shared publicly. And it was, so this is something that I requested the DA include in our sentencing day. Our sentencing day is long. It's three hours because it's basically going to be like a mini trial. I was like, you know, I'll really be good with this if we can still show the videos so that the judge fully understands what kind of business is. You know, in talks of motivation or motive, rather, this is.

this is this is not i can say this i'll still put in my opinion in front of it but i i say this opinion with the most certainty um this is not a person who was overwhelmed by her work who was you know just having a bad day or dealing with kids with high magnitude behaviors and and wasn't supported enough that's a load of shit because There is a video that will be shown publicly. The sentencing will be public. And, you know, I told you, we had to go and watch these videos over the course of a few days. And I couldn't tell you a single thing about any of the other videos except for this one.

There's a day. She's sitting in Dax's seat and they have the radio playing on the bus. And it's that pink song. so what the one that's like I'm going to start a fight or whatever she is singing and dancing along

to this song in her seat and she is striking him to the beat of the song that that is this person so I don't know what's wrong with her I don't ever want to understand what is wrong with her

I don't care if it's you know I'm sure at sentencing we'll hear some fucking sob story about she had a hard childhood guess what so did fucking everybody to be frank okay I had a hard childhood I'm not meeting kids

I'm saying if you want to go toe to toe with childhood trauma sexual abuse physical abuse neglect cool my dad's been in prison nearly my entire life my mom was a heroin addict like career

she's over by the way but if you want to talk about a bad childhood great i don't wake up and decide to hurt children or anyone for that matter and i have tried you know my go-to is to psychoanalyze situations how can i get to the why of this behavior so it hurts my feelings less so that i can digest it more easy i can't do this with her and i can't do this with her and And I don't want to. I don't think, you know, I'm sure everyone, everyone whose kid is a victim or is hurt in some way, it feels very unique to the mom and the dad and the family. But it's not really in the scope of crime. You know, it's rampant.

Like you said, I could Google today, I'm sure there was 10 headlines that I could pull up. of people hurting kids. It happens all the fucking time. But this lady is in like a special category of depraved for this behavior. Not saying that anyone who is, you know, undersupported or overwhelmed with their job should hurt kids. But at least when you're trying to understand someone's behavior so that you can feel better about it, that at least inches you towards that.

that this is she actively took joy in torturing my son and i watched her do it so i don't know what her what her motivation is or what her bullshit story will be at sentencing i don't frankly care there there will never be anything that she could say that would make me feel sorry for her um or anything even in that realm and you know i was watching i told you i was watching elizabeth's episode and what she said about freaking miss gave me pause and i was like man she she's obviously a lot further in her journey of overcoming things and and all of that and it's obviously a much different story but forgiving someone for yourself you know that it doesn't really have anything else to do with the person um i don't know that i will ever get there i don't think i can that's

that for me. So. But that's okay. You know, it's, and that was kind of one of things her and I talked about was like, you know, you don't have to forgive. If you do it, it's for you. It's not for the other person. Like she said, she's not going to invite her captors for Sunday dinner, right? Yeah. She's not going to let them hang out around her kids. She's, but it's, it's for her. And that's kind of how it is. If you get to that point eventually, then you get to that point eventually, but it's, it's not for Kiera. It's, it's for Jess. Right. So, you know, that's a personal journey. And it's very okay to be angry and just,

it's fucking pissed off. I mean, it's your kid. And it's an incredibly, an incredibly vulnerable child. And for no, no other reason that anybody, you know,

even though she does have some BS excuse. There's no other reason to cause harm. You know, like, it's like, we just want to cause harm. That's all it is. You know,

with sexual predators, there's the sexual gratification aspect. And you go like, okay, this is what, they're doing, but when you're looking at, which doesn't make it okay, I'm not excusing you're not, excuse me, at all, but you're like, okay, this is your motive right here. But with a kid like this and just harming them for the sake of harming them, that's a completely

different animal. It's sadistic, is what it is. It is. It's awful. And, you know, the part of my, and, you know, my forgiveness isn't worth a shit. I don't know that my son could ever even comprehend. You know, I can't even wrap my head around videos like the one I just explained or behavior like I've read, you know, throughout the reports. It's the most infuriating thing about this is because Dax is non-speaking and he has an intellectual disability.

he cannot go to standard therapy or or tell me how he feels or tell me, you know, I don't, I don't want to go to school today. I want to be left alone today. I want, I need space. I need to just process. He can't vocalize any of that to me or seek, you know, the standard route of help. If this were to have happened to Mila, my daughter, first of all, it wouldn't because she would be able to tell me, hey, this thing happened. So there is no case where a neurotypical kid is being physically tortured on a school bus without the ability to say, hey, this is happening to me. But if it were to happen to one of my neurotypical kids, we would be in intensive therapy. We would be in groups. we would be, you know, doing things to help them overcome that. With Dax, I just kind of have to hold his hand through whatever the day is giving him.

And, you know, most people don't set out with the intention to do something important. Like if you would have told me that I was going to be on a true crime podcast or the news or whatever, be like, why? It is most people's intention to just survive. And sometimes that survival ends up becoming important. And I think that's kind of what Dax is doing right now. Like his intention every day is to survive the day. And whatever trauma comes up for him or triggers that happen, he just has to survive those. And there's no way for us to help him avoid those triggers necessarily.

because, you know, sometimes it's being at a stoplight and a school bus pulls up next to us in the next lane. And that sends a whole wave of triggers through. And then, you know, we have to pull the car over and help him not hurt himself out of response because he can't verbalize what that feels like for him. And the fact that her joy, her choices to do that, has given him this life of survival now. And it fucking sucks. And for that, I will never be able to forgive her, not even for myself.

And because I can never know that, you know, where Dax is at with that, does he fully understand it? Does he remember that person or what? I can't forgive her on his behalf. So, yeah. Now, I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but for the sake of listeners, does Dax have any nonverbal way of being able to communicate with you guys at all? I mean, obviously, if he's starting to try to self-harm, you know that he's in distress and things like that. But, I mean, does he have other ways that you're able to communicate with him? So we were working pretty diligently with his new school on.

kind of building up his vocabulary in whatever modality that works for him. I was joking with one of his teachers the other day because he vocalizes a lot of sounds and like word imitation, but it's usually not cut and dry what it is that he's saying. And he's been making this sound for a while. And she's like, I think Dax is like, I don't know, it sounded like German or something. And I was like, I will get on duolingo today and learn how to speak German. He's taking up German. If that's the mode that he wants to go.

But so we're kind of throwing everything his way in hopes that he'll find something that he really likes to kind of build off of it. But for the most part, you know, he has a talking device. He doesn't really show interest in it. He is pretty efficient with, it's called Pecks, the picture exchange card. So it's like little icons. Like if you want to go outside, you'll give me a little picture. of the playground or whatever. And he's pretty efficient with those.

But to build those out into something that's like, I'm having a really hard day because I'm remembering this one instance, you know, that happened to me a year ago. There's not a picture for that. So we're trying to kind of build around the things that he is efficient with and lift those up so that he can find an avenue that works. best for him, but for the most part, you know, with me at home, I always joke that we communicate telepathically because I can just kind of scan his body language and be like, he wants to go take a

bath. We're going to go upstairs in a second. But that doesn't work out, you know, in society, in the public. And, you know, we always wonder what happens. I unfortunately won't live forever. So making sure that he has access to language and communication well into his adulthood. And after I'm here is something that's really important just for his own well-being, just to be able to say what he wants and what he doesn't want, but also for safety. Because if he, you know, has language, he's a little bit safer. He moves into the two to three percent or two to three times more likely than the higher bracket of likelihoodness to be victimized. So language is something that we really focus on and his new school is amazing and enormously trauma-informed.

And it's a really great team there that I think we'll see a lot of good strides this year. This will be our first full school year in the fall at this new place that we had open. And so now I'm really out of my wheelhouse on this one. So if I'm sorry if this is this is a dumb thing to say. Yeah. But since he's doing well with like, you know, the, the photo cards, what about like a feelings chart sort of thing? He could have like an icon for like I feel unsafe today. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not. It is a thing. It is a thing. So like his goal so kids with disabilities will sometimes have IEPs or individualized. education programs, you know. And usually those goals are kind of painted with an academic brush, but our goals that we went over is I want him to become really confident in saying, no, I don't like that or go away from me or stop, things like that, as well as like anatomical goals of being able to identify his different body parts. If, you know, my stomach is hurting, my head is hurting, things that are less, you know, not so easy.

I can see if you fall and scrape your knee that your knee will probably hurt. I cannot, however, tell if you have a migraine or you have a stomach ache just by looking at you. So kind of going off of starting with the physical, tangible examples that we can give him and then moving into the emotional side of that with icons and has talking device and things like that. So not a stupid question you are on the right track. That is something that we do. So personal story. So my daughter, obviously, is never typical, but she was a premium, very extreme.

She was a 29 weeker, 29 week, three days. And so like her first, her first, we were talking about this yesterday, as a matter of fact, but her first experience in this world was pain. You know, she gets ripped out. She's got IVs, tubes, needles, everything coming out of her because they're trying to keep her alive. My wife doesn't even get to touch her her first five days of life. Nobody gets to touch her. I don't get, it's 12 days for me before I can hold her her touch her.

And, you know, that's been one thing. You know, my wife is very concerned. Like, you know, this lives somewhere in her brain. And then she's also had a lot of work. You know, and I know kids do, but she's got a lot of worries and she'll start getting like a little OCD about it, right? Like, just very obsessive about it. And so we got her into a child counselor to kind of help us, help her explore this.

because, you know, look, if you can get her into this and regulate pretty early, that's phenomenal. But that's kind of where I got the idea for the whole feelings chart thing, because they're like, you know, how are you? And like, hey, I want you go make one. She wouldn't make one. And she actually already kind of had one because she got just, we'll move on. But so my daughter's like, she's a great kid. Like, she's never in trouble.

But one time we were out and she wasn't listening and she loves bath and body works. Okay. And so the punishment was because she wasn't listening. You don't get to go into bath and body, works with mom and smell the cameras. You're going to sit in the car with me. And so she made this chart, and me and her were on,

my wife and I were on red for a while over this. We're like big exes and she's not going to cuddle with us. She's not going to talk to us. And, but she made herself, I was very proud of her for that. But I'm saying that the feelings said now, but even since that event happened, which is that's been months ago,

she'll still pull out her little feelings chart and be like, this is where I'm at today. And so, you know, it's, it's great. I'm sorry, let me get it. Somebody's calling. Let me send them away. All right. But yeah, so it's, it's kind of a,

it's just, I like the feelings, the feelings charge idea, but. And then the counseling thing, too, I'll ask you this. And I do wonder, this is just, I know this has nothing to do with the true crime part. I'm just curious because you said something that I had, I have never thought about.

I would imagine many people, um, haven't really thought about or talked about, unless they have a, you know, a child who's, you know, on the spectrum or neurodivergent, whatever. How do you get counseling? I mean, is there, are there a therapist? I mean, I would imagine if there are therapists, they are incredibly few and far between, probably cash pay only. And does that even exist? Now, in my experience, no, someone please prove me wrong. If you are out. there. I don't care. The commerce or send me a message. I love a road trip.

I have called every number that was sent my way from here, from Colorado, I think we are, up to Wyoming. Looking for a therapist who specializes not only in profound autism, but also non-speakers who have experienced severe. physical trauma. Yeah, that's this very specific. I had better luck finding the end of the rainbow and the leprechaun holding the pot. Because every person that I've called is like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry to hear.

They're all very kind, but it's a very niche thing that I'm looking for that just doesn't. I haven't found it yet. I won't say that it doesn't exist, but I haven't found it yet. there have been a couple people who have referred me to a therapist they know that maybe don't technically specialize in profound autism or non-talkers, but get it or have a sibling or something like that. And then it becomes an issue of, okay, well, I have to like, I can't just walk Daxon and be like, this is your therapist and they're going to help you. There's like a whole pairing process that has to go on and is it a good fit? Does he feel safe with you? There's also, you know, different kinds of triggers that are trigger to talk about in a more public space. But I have to avoid, you know, I'll lay this example.

If I was hurt by a very tall white man, I would be scared or triggered. if I was in a space with a very tall white man who resembled my abuser. So I have to deal with those triggers for Dax as well. That's got to be tough. It's very tough. It sucks. It sucks.

There's like a million different things that have to go into it to make it work. And then it has to work. You know, just to even like get there, there's a million different things. So I don't, there's play therapy, there's aquatic therapy, there's horse therapy. And Colorado is great for those resources, like more unique resources like that.

But just not dialed in to what you specifically need. There's, there's like, there's like flag inclusivity that's like, yeah, this is for autistic kids. But how autistic is your kid? So it's a very, it's a lot. It's like I said, everything is nuanced in this story. But therapy is definitely one of those things. But in the interim, we, I know what Dax likes. I know what instantly puts him in a good mood.

What can really pull him out of any hole that he might be in one day. And so we've just kind of been doing that on our own. You know, we go swim. He loves to swim. I think he would live in the water if it were up to him. He's an excellent swimmer. So, you know, we'll take him to the wreck center by our house and pay the six bucks and go swim. Let him go.

And that helps him regulate. So it's not, you know, there's not like trauma therapy in terms of, okay, let's go back to this day and what happened to you and that. But there are ways to make him feel comfortable in his body. And that's a big part of how happy or upset he is for the day. So we've just been kind of chugging along and doing it in our own version of what therapy should be for him. But as far as like finding someone to contract with and pay, I don't know that I ever will. I hope I do. But we'll figure it out.

So I don't, I'm not asking another question. I know that we wanted, we're going to talk about this beforehand before we started. Like you have a few different things we got to talk about. We're going to try to, because you and I are both ADHD, which is like the blind leading the blind here. And we're trying to keep things into like these segments. So I don't know if this pushes us into it if I'm going all over the place. But we kind of talked about a little, we touched on this earlier.

And I think that this could possibly bring us into the civil lawsuit as well. There was a lot of systemic failures with this. Correct? Like, I mean, there were, I mean, there were a lot. And I know this because I've had previous conversations with you too, but let's kind of talk about everything that went wrong for this to have been, this to have gone on as long as it did completely unchecked. And then I remember, and I know we didn't talk about this today, but I remember from a previous conversation, we did talk about the way that I was the school or the bus. I think the bus company handled it better than the school did, but there was something, maybe I'm getting that flip flop too. but you know where I'm going with this.

Yeah. With the, everybody kind of had their, well, I guess I can't even say that at this point. The district, so we settled with the district. The complaint,

I'm still like getting a hold on like legal mumbo-jumbo, but the complaint is what is set out initially. And that's a private document. So the complaint was sent to both the school district, Littleton School District, as well as the facility school

that they contract with, the Joshua School. So the Joshua School is not a part of the school district. It's just someone that they pay to take kids that the district can't accommodate for. It's kind of confusing. But that's why there's two

because they're not under the same umbrella. So, um, so the complaint went out to both of them. And everybody kind of, you know, was caught red-handed here as far as the two entities go because, yes, it was the school district's employee and the school district is who had access to the cameras that they did not watch. However, as it's laid out in a lawsuit, excuse me, um, the, The school is who I talk to every single day. So if they're playing a bad game of telephone to the district, yes, the district is still at fault because you're a school district and you should operate more efficiently than this. However, they were, you know, in their defense, getting really bad information from the school, the Joshua school.

Because in January, for example, that was January 10th. He was covered in bruises. I complain. They tell the district, hey, you should watch the bus footage. Last Friday, Mom noticed bruises on Dax, and we don't know where they're, where they came from. And neither does she. It was not last Friday. It was Wednesday.

They watched, so then the district goes and watches the video of a day that Dax wasn't even on the bus. Dax isn't the district's student. The people watching the best footage Don't know what my kid looks like Should they? I kind of think it's crazy That they watched a video Not knowing what kid they were looking for being harmed

Fair. That's just my opinion But that's not their student So they should have done a better job Telling them What to look for Or who to look for even So with the lawsuit

being only for the Joshua school. So the complaint was given. The district saw their mistakes and said, okay, let's go to mediation. Let's talk about it. And we ended up settling with them. The Joshua School, however, so the complaint ended there with the district. The Joshua School, however, is under the impression that they are God's gift to special education and have done nothing wrong in my opinion. That's what they think. Um, so the lawsuit went, that's how you perceive it. We'll put it that way. Yes. Um, so the lawsuit was filed on New Year's Eve for just the Joshua school because they are unwilling to have a meaningful conversation. Um, so that's where the civil side of things are at.

It's a lot. Yeah. It's been crazy. And so do you, with the civil suit, I mean, that you don't, I know at this point in time, because it was just filed not too long ago and it might be months before you, you know, or even in some cases, years before you hear anything. Hopefully that's not the case. Yeah.

So it's going to be a while. It's going to get drawn out. So I'm not going to ask you anything about, you know, outcomes or that because, you know, you're still very, very early in the process. There was something else. Again, this is the ADHD that I know we wanted to talk about. Or maybe we already did. But was there something else that we haven't talked about yet that you wanted to make

sure that we let, you know, everybody know about this? I don't know. I mean, I feel like. I think you've been very thorough. I couldn't tell you. I mean, it's up to you. I mean, this is like I told you. This is your space.

This is led by you to say what you want. much or how little. I don't know. I feel like we were supposed to talk mostly about the lawsuit. And that was like the thing we've talked the least about. Well, I think that to talk about the lawsuit, you have to talk about the crime. And I'll be honest with you. What I've really, yeah, I realize that, yes, we've maybe gotten a little bit off track from the lawsuit.

But at the same time, I feel like this conversation has been incredible because unless you have a child that's that's on the spectrum, you don't, there's a lot of things that you have said that neurotypical people will never think about. Yeah. And, you know, even somebody who tries to be as aware, like I try to be aware and try to be cognizant of things like, you know, you know, how it's going to affect others? You know, if somebody's in this situation and they're nonverbal. And the way you've laid some of this out, I think is so important for that community. in the community, you know, parents, you know, who are in similar situations to you

and for people who aren't in situations to understand, hey, this is kind of what's going on, that these are the struggles that we deal with. When this happens, we can't get him the help that we need. These are the things. I feel like this conversation has been incredible, truly. Well, thanks. But actually, we can talk.

Something that is kind of important about that I've, I've seen a lot of people be confused about that doesn't really get addressed because there's not a good way to do it. That doesn't sound kind of mean, I guess. You can sign, tell me it's okay. It's just us. I don't think it's mean, but people don't like, you know, most people don't like to be told what they think is incorrect. But because this physical abuse for Dax went on over the course of months and it was escalating from, you know, scratches to bumps to bruises to he lost a tooth one time. It kind of grew. A lot of confusion from people is like, why,

why did this go on for so long before the parents did something? I wish I could show you my binder of all of the somethings that I did. So I think. think it's really important to remember that when you have a kid who is non-speaking and cannot tell you with words what is going on. And then you have a school who is, you know, in my opinion, gaslighting and manipulating me to not be mad at them or point blame at them. And then I have a physical abuser who is gaslighting and manipulating me to never look her direction and to trust entirely. I had zero

breadcrumbs to fall ill and I still figured this out. So when you're asking how did this go on for so long, that is a really good question for the Joshua school. How the

fuck did this go on for so long? Because I was the only person in like a sea of nose looking for an answer and I was the only person who found it. Had they ever one time called the mandated reporting line and reported

me even call them on me they would have come and investigated they could have seen my house you know this is dax's bed this is our food like whatever whatever it is that DCFS looks for to deem me not the problem and then they would have went down the line for okay where is the problem

if it's not mom or dad who is it because dax doesn't go to babysitters he's not in like you know friends houses he goes from home to the bus to school so it would have been a very quick find had they ever done that so yeah it's just really hard to read those uh kind of misperceptions of why didn't mom do anything meanwhile i'm like sweating like does anybody know why there's gum stuck in my kids hair or Turns out, Kira Jones made him chew gum, took it out of his mouth, and stuck it in his fucking hair. Like, I was the only person investigating instead of the people who are obligated by law to make

those phone calls doing that. It would have saved him months of being abused. So that's how it went on to anyone who has ever asked that question. Well, you're nice to me because I'm going to be mean about it. When people ask that question, it's victim blaming. okay because the only person who is responsible for dax's harm is kira jones that's the only person you know and and people like you said you said you watched the you know with this premier you know you watch the elizabeth smart episode and people victim blame her you know like you're going to victim

blame elizabeth smart for for not escaping captors when she's 14 years old when or being too scared like you know that's the thing and the other thing too is that gets me and this is a dad it's always the mom. Why didn't mom do something? It's never dad. It's never dad. Why wouldn't mom do something? So the thing is, is again,

you have a nonverbal child. You're trying to get to the bottom of what's going on. Things are happening. You're being told different things. And you do your own research. You kind of dig into it and you figure out what's going on. So, I mean, mad, mad respecting kudos for that. But for people listening to this, stop blaming victims.

The only person, possible for the harm of somebody else is the person committing the harm. That's it. Nobody else. Not the parents, not the victim themselves. No one else. Yeah. I agree. Full stop. You were a little meaner, but I told you I was going to be meaner. Well, I see it every day. Yeah. You know, and I'm not even talking about like crazy people on the internet that, that comment without a care could never be. They do exist. But it's wild to read sometimes. But, Just for people who are who actually genuinely wonder like wait, how didn't how didn't the mom notice that her kid lost the tooth or things like that? I assure you that I did. You know, I have all those receipts. But it's this goes back to the systemic failures and the institutional failures of there's not really a good outlet for parents to get the full story when their kids are non-speaking. It's because. you know, it's the age old saying. The only two people who know what happened are the people who didn't, the people are the person that happened to. So one of those people can't tell me to no fault of his own.

And one of them is a psychotic fucking liar. So I don't. It's not going to tell you. Yeah, I don't have a lot to go off of. But yeah, I think, you know, a big takeaway for me for other people, for anyone listening is the only thing. that kept pushing me forward and not accepting the answers that I was getting was literally just my gut. It didn't feel right.

I know my kid and he wasn't himself. And now I know why. And had I accepted any of the people lying to me as answers, who knows what would have ended up happening? You know, the abuse with Dax was escalating. It was getting worse. And it's scary to think, you know, what if it took me another month to figure it out? Or, you know, what the next escalation of injury would have been. But that is literally the only way that I figured this out was just like, I wish I could like better put this into words.

but just looking at Dax's face when he is in those moments of just complete upset and just searching, like literally begging, like, please tell me what's going on. Please let me understand how can I know what's going on? And just not giving up on that want is the only way that I figured this out. So if you have, you know, also not to be an alarmist, but if your kid's behavior drastically changes in a very short amount of time,

it could be a number of things, but it is probably a thing. You know, it could be a medical issue. It could be someone at school is not nice to them or, you know, a million things. But dig, you know, we know our kids the best. I'm not an expert in anything except for my kids. I can tell you everything about them. And that is a title that I don't take lightly. So keep pushing.

If you have a weird feeling, I see a. million posts all the time online. You know, my kid came home from daycare with this mark and he's nonverbal and they're telling me he bumped into a chair. If it doesn't feel right, keep asking questions. And, you know, for someone who used to work with kids, I, as someone who loves children and likes to work with them, if parents had questions for me, I will give you a hard drive. Like, here's the video for the day.

This is everything that we did. have any questions, come in, I'll talk to you. Someone who isn't doing something wrong has no problem being asked questions. Someone who is lying and trying to protect themselves, they don't like to be asked questions. So if you're getting shut down or dismissed, that's probably another sign for you to keep a red flag. Yeah. That's a red flag. That is something that is worth sharing, because I know a lot of parents and caregivers. We trust. our kids with people that we just have to assume our good people. There's really no way to know, you know, someone's not a bad person until you find out they're a bad person. So.

And when it comes to school, you really, when it comes to school, you really don't have a choice. You have to send your kids to school because if not, you're dealing with the state. So, you know, you have no choice there. So, you know, it's not like, oh, well, you, give people who want a victim, like, oh, you left them with a babysitter or you did this. You should have, you know. Even with the people who say, like, oh, this is why we homeschool. Totally get that. I homeschooled for a year after I found everything out. But to the other side of that that maybe doesn't get paid attention to is my kid doesn't deserve to be secluded because other people want to hurt children. He deserves school. He loves school. He loves to be with peers and his teachers. Like the new school that he's at, the first week when school started after being homeschooled for a year, our problem was he didn't want to come home at the end of the day. I was like, it's funny. Okay, all right. That's a little, that hurts my feelings. I'm very happy for you, but I'm still your mom.

But those are the kinds of problems that I want to have, that he loves it there so much that he doesn't want to leave. So I don't want to have to shelter my kids just to make sure that someone doesn't abuse them. Why don't we talk to people about not abusing kids? You know, like he should still have access to the public. You should be allowed outside. Up hurting kids. Yeah. So that's another nod of that where I'm like, okay, I get homeschooling out of fear, but that's a bigger problem. Why don't we address the fact that we're afraid to send our kids to school? Well, then that becomes a big. It becomes a big circle.

That's a much bigger conversation. That's a bigger conversation with a bigger circle because then you get the legal system involved. And you know how that goes. Yeah. So what else? I don't know I mean we've done what we've covered a lot It could be at the end

And if we're at the end then I got one more question But if not Then I'm going to save it I don't know I don't think I I don't have my lawsuit down here with me But yeah

It's just going to be a super long road My lawyer said it'll probably be like two years before this is over with if it goes the way that it's going because it's it's very much um they are deadline people they'll wait until like 1159 on the last day to do something so they do it um that's a risk though it is for them for them i'm not i feel like they think i'm going to get tired and and give up um i'm not So I, it is my hope that they, that the district attorney presses criminal charges against them for failure to report because it's crazy. I mean, once you, I think I sent you the lawsuit.

But once you go through and read like the conversations that they were having, like that I obviously didn't know at the time they were having and know now, it's. And fun fact, I didn't even want to sue them at first. that is how that is how wrapped up I was in in the good guy facade that they had put on when we started our our lawsuit and all of our civil proceedings I didn't even want to sue them at first because I thought that they were the good guys in fact I think I thanked them in my first press conference I think I did and I regret that wholeheartedly now because well You did what you did with the best information you had at the time. Yeah, you can't know what you don't know. But when they're, you know, when their former employee kind of shed a lot of light to what was actually going on, yeah, I will never get tired of having this, this battle go on with them for as long as they want to kick and scream and refuse to take accountability. That's fine. I don't I'm not working on a deadline

well I think what we need to probably do is whenever there I mean you have my number but whenever there's an update on the civil suit maybe we need to do a follow-up episode yeah we could it might do that a long time from now that's fine oh well hopefully this is still going a long time from now yeah that being said

before I guess then before we close out since everything has been a couple years how how is dach's doing like how is his you know behavior how is his per is he gone is he getting better i mean obviously he likes his new school so he feels safe there but how's he doing overall um it's kind of like how i explained earlier you know i never really know what the day is going to look like for him so so like this morning he they have um late starts on wednesday they go in an hour later. And it's always hit or miss. It's either a really great morning or it's not so great because of the waiting. But some days it's it's just a great day in whole. And sometimes

it's hour by hour and sometimes it's minute by minute. It really just depends. And getting his he was formally diagnosed with PTSD. last, it was last summer, I want to say. And that's as a result of this, correct? Yeah, from the physical abuse. And which is kind of tricky to diagnose in someone who's not speaking because a lot of those questions are questions. So you have to answer it with words.

So it's based solely off of his behavior of what things trigger him and when. And his doctor was like, you know, he has an impeccable internal clock because all of his behaviors would really start to ramp up around certain times of the year. And spring, the first year, so the anniversary of the last day that he was on the bus, it was like we were talking about medication and how can we help him feel safe and comfortable in his body and things like that because it was so, it was such a high magnitude of behaviors and self-injury. And so that's when she went through And she was like, I'm going to run this evaluation for PTSD

Because I think that he is just remembering That in this season, the way the weather feels right now, The way it looks outside Is what I remember when I was on the bus And the last time that I was on the bus And the last time that that person had access to me And so she went to and did this like a rigorous process of figuring out.

Yeah. And so that is kind of a perfect answer to how he is today. It really just kind of depends on the weather. It depends on where we are. It depends on the cars moving around us. It depends on what the people around us look like or sound like or different songs playing on the radio that could

trigger. You know, think about if you're unpacking and you pull out an old t-shirt from when you're in high school and it kind of brings you back to the last time you wore it or or memory you have with it. Those kinds of things happen for him as well, just in a much more negative connotation, of course. So we're very careful to set him up for good days,

but sometimes I can't check all the boxes. So whatever it is, wherever he's at, you know, feeling-wise, we just kind of go through it with him. That's really all that we can do. But he's having a really good day today. And I found a giant kerplunk game at Costco. It's huge. It's like life size.

And I went to set up at school. Yeah. It was like 90 bucks, I think. But he loves stuff like that, like putting things into other things like pipe cleaners and pop tubes and stuff. So I went and set it up for him at school yesterday. So I think he's having a very good day today. That's awesome. Well, before we leave, I want people.

You've been very vocal about your journey on social media as well. So where can people find you? Of course, we'll put links to your socials in the notes, but for people who are listening in the car or on the go, can't go to the notes. I will, I don't remember what my Instagram name is. I'll pull it up. On Instagram, my username is Bess, J-E-S, and then an underscore. And then on TikTok, I think it's the same.

Yeah. Cohesiveness. Same on TikTok. But usually after court or a proceeding or whatever, I'll get on and update people. Because, you know, I was always kind of under the impression that you're like not allowed to talk. Like everything is always like we can't. Not much as a gag order. Ongoing investigation.

Our attorneys are primarily civil rights attorneys. So they're like, as long as you're not like threatening someone's life. or inciting violence, you can share whatever you want to share. Destroyed. And I do that because, you know, our kids are non-speaking, and I think that works to the advantage of abusers. And so I'm happy to share what actually happens to children who are most vulnerable and put in positions like this.

Because if I don't talk about it, he's unable to talk. about it, then nobody has to hear about it. And I think it's important for people not to look away. I don't think that's looking away and not listening to something because it is uncomfortable or sad is a luxury that my kid didn't have. So. Yeah. Be uncomfortable. Yeah. You know. And for the listeners, I will tell you, because I know, obviously I follow. Yes. You really don't post unless you have an update. So it's not like you're going to be scrolling and every day she's going to, I do not spam. I wasn't even on the internet before this.

And I was like, maybe I should do that. It's worked out for you. So from this perspective, well, I appreciate you joining and sharing Dax's story. I know there's something that, you know, I remember when it happened. And I remember being incredibly enraged about it and talking to you. And I'm glad to, you know, I hate that there's an update, but I'm glad to see that there's an update moving in this direction because there has to be some accountability. But yeah, everybody, I mean, this is a really important subject that people need to know, especially for inclusivity, things like that. So definitely give Jess a follow. And until then, we'll see you guys next time. See you. Thanks for listening.

The views and opinions expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals speaking and do not necessarily reflect those of the host. Unheard is intended to provide a platform for personal stories and lived experiences, not to establish facts, determine guilt, innocence, or provide leads. legal, medical, or professional advice. Listeners are encouraged to conduct their own research and form their own conclusions. Thank you for listening to Unheard.