Unlonely with Dr. Jody Carrington - Dare to Evolve: Owning Your Story and Finding Your It Factor: Liz Brunner

Episode Date: August 14, 2025

This one hit deep. I sat down with the extraordinary Liz Brunner—a woman who has reinvented herself more times than most people dare to dream. From singing in Vatican Square to anchoring the news, to building a business from the ground up in her 50s—this episode is about owning the fire inside of you, even when life tries to snuff it out.We talked about grief, burnout, badassery, and why feeling seen is the key to unlocking your next version. She’s proof that reinvention isn’t just possible—it’s necessary. Especially for women. Especially now.If you’re navigating loss, feeling stuck, or just need a reminder that your best chapters might still be ahead of you—this one’s for you.Check out Liz Here:www.instagram.com/lizbrunner/www.linkedin.com/in/liz-brunner-6230b01b/www.facebook.com/OfficialLizBrunner Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

ACAS powers the world's best podcasts. Here's the show that we recommend. I'm Mark. And I'm Ryan, and you might know us from our award-winning CBC podcast. Let's Make a Sci-Fi. But we want to tell you about our brand-new show, the town show. On The Town Show, we are building a fictional town. Every week, we invite a guest comedian on to riff with us about new citizens, new buildings, historical landmarks for our made-up town.

The best way to describe it is, you know that Simpsons poster with every character on it? We're trying to create that, but in podcast form. So listen to The Town Show out every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. At the beginning of every episode, there will always be time for an acknowledgment. You know, the more we do this, people ask, why do you have to do the acknowledgement and every episode? I got to tell you, I've never been more grateful for being able to raise my babies on the land where so much sacrifice was made. And I think what's really critical in this process is that the ask is just that we don't forget.

So the importance of saying these words at the beginning of every episode will always be of utmost importance to me and this team. So everything that we created here today for you happened. on Treaty 7 land, which is now known as the center part of the province of Alberta. It is home of the Blackfoot Confederacy, which is made up of the Siksika, the Kainai, the Peking, the Titina First Nation, the Stony-Nakota First Nation, and the Métis Nation Region 3. Our job, our job as humans, is to simply acknowledge each other. That's how we do better, be better, and stay connected to the good. Well, look at you coming in for another episode on Lonely. Drop them friggin' shoulders

before we start telling you what you're going to need to today. This is a good one. I I really, really, really was taken aback by this human. The first second I laid eyes on her and I thought, Mike, she has lived a million lifetimes because graceful, exquisite. I don't know that I've ever used the word exquisite to describe a human, but certainly I, I, I, I, I would, I can think of maybe one other, that I would fit in this category, but she is a rockshar. So again, a speaker as well, but I think what is most interesting to me is her captivating capacity to storytell. Liz Bruner, when you, she's now an experienced executive coach. She's guided top professionals through careers to finding sort of their major moments.

and she leverages that deep expertise that she has in communication and brings it all together. She is a best-selling author, Liz Pinned Dare to Own You, which was really about taking your authenticity and dreams into your next chapter. And she, this is what sort of blows me away about her. She had a distinguished career as a former Emmy Award-winning TV news anchor for ABC TV's WCVB TV, News Center 5 in Boston and an award-winning podcast host. She is respected, so widely respected in the world of communication. And she's mastered the art of connection and influence.

And she's one of the most sought-after voices in leadership and transformation. And we got her today, you and me. So lean in to this conversation because I was so fascinated on, and she gets really vulnerable in this. this talk, which I really, you know, appreciated. And yeah, it's time. It's time for women who have broken some glass ceilings to share a little bit more about it. So I was so grateful for this conversation. Enjoy. Okay, look at us.

I hope you're in the sun sometimes, somewhere today because I'm going to bring all the sunshine today. I've told you a little bit about her, but Liz Bruner and I met in a while we were both trying to be better speakers. And I was so captivated by this human, mostly because she's everything I hope to be. and she's come through the fire in so many ways. I mean, a media personality, in the world of pageantry, all of these things that, like, you know, should break your soul.

And I can imagine are so remarkably lonely and raised in the roots of a ministry with a father in New York, a mother from India. Like, you have the most remarkable story. And when I watch you command a room, work your magic, it just really is that to me. And so I want to know, I want to know it all, Liz, take us through as women, how the fuck we're going to navigate this world that has never needed us more than right now. How do we, how do we dare to own you? Go.

Okay. Well, first of all, thank you for saying all those kind words because I'm such a big fan of yours. And when we met, finally, we've been following each other for a while. But when we finally met, it was like, aha, I know you, I know you, I know you. Yes. You know, it's true. Owning who we are stems so much from where we came from and connecting to ourselves. And you're right.

My father was a minister. My mother was a school social worker. And my dad was from New York. My mom was from India. They met in Japan. That's a whole other story. They end up re-meeting six years later in New Hampshire. And that's when they got to get for some.

Stop. Oh, my God. I love that. It's in my book. It's a long story. Yeah. But, you know, I want to bring up the point about why I even put that story in there along with my genealogy and family history, because I remember the day that I was writing that section of the book, Jody. And I remember getting up from my computer, going over to the Charles River. I live in Boston, and I was going over from my walk.

And I'm literally screaming out loud to the universe, why am I supposed to put this in the book? Really? And what came to me was I didn't realize, unconsciously, I was carrying this weight of all these doctors and professors and this and that and ministers and all this history that dates back to when the Apostle Thomas converted 12 families to Christianity in India. That's how far back I know how to go. And what occurred to me is that there are so many people that carry the weight of whether it's conscious or unconscious, oh, you're going to be a doctor because I've been a doctor, or you're going to go to this school because I went to this school. And so we don't necessarily follow who we truly are, our authentic cells.

We don't own who we are because we feel like we have an expectation to follow in somebody else's steps. So when you put all that together, that's, you know, I think back to all of that. I'm so grateful for all of that. Yeah. But it led me down paths that I never expected to go down. Because it's in our bones. Like, and I think from a cellular level, this is really what is happening in my late 40s

as I start to have conversations about, you know, how to navigate the world and control the world and just be everything and do everything and like, crue. flush ceilings and, you know, all the things that I feel like I have the potential to do is that that reflection on what it means to the core of us, where we've come from, who we've come from, how does that shape what our potential is and how we perceive that potential to be? And I want to know more about that from you. This is, you know, in all transparency, this will air much later, but my, this is the first podcast I've done since my father died.

And we buried him five days ago. And I have never been in a place now more than ever, like at this crossroads of 50, of figuring out why I'm so good at this stuff, of integrating very complex messages into usable, sort of tangible things that I think really can push the world into all kinds of places. How did that happen? Why does it matter so much to me? And why am I so relentlessly pursuing this like a business perspective that is outlandish to many women I know?

And I just think, you know, in his death, there's been so much reflection of me of like what he, where he came from. Even, you know, the loss of an infant sister. He gave up his first child, his first daughter for adoption and none of us knew it. Like all of these things happened in this story. That's one generation. What happened to his father? What happened to the war experiences in Eastern Europe that I know nothing about? And so how does that affect the multiple wombs that, you know, we as women in particular, have traveled in, in an effort to now be in this stage of so much information when what we need most is connection and we've always been good at it.

How do we tap into that, right? So tell me more a little bit about, you know, your understanding of that internal work because I think it is the key to everything. So many layers there. First of all, I'm hugging you long distance because I can't hug you in person. Thank you. With the loss of your father and I felt so badly for you. And it was funny because I was reading the chapter on grief when I saw your text about his passing. And I was like, wow, talk about the energy of the universe. Oh, I love that. So here's what I believe. My grandmother, Dr. Dorothy Dunning Chaco, my mother's mother.

had this quote that she would say all the time, and I heard it growing up from her, I heard it growing up from my own mother, which is no knowledge is ever wasted. In the good Lord's sight, she would say. Yeah. Now, this applies to everything, every experience you have, every knowledge you have. We carry all of that with us. And think about that quote in and of itself and where it may have come from from her generations before her and what she learned to carry that forward. And how can you connect to all of that? And that actually was the impetus for my book, Dare to Own You. That was the first title before we changed it to Dare to Own You was No Knowledge is Ever wasted because it isn't. And when you carry those experiences and what I love to do, Jody, one of the things

I love to do is help people connect those dots. What are the themes and patterns that have been running through your life, the good experiences, the bad experiences. How can you connect all of those to realize, first of all, you know more than you think you know. Yeah. And learning how to trust that so that you can potentially recreate yourself to your next chapter. I consider myself Liz 4.0. Really? My first career was as a semi-professional singer, classically trained, and teaching high school choral music, traveled Europe, saying for Pope John Paul II and Vatican Square. I felt like there was something more that I was supposed to do after a couple years. I didn't know what it was. I left teaching, worked in retail to pay the bills, was reading a book

called Who's Hiring Who by Richard Lathrop, and he talks about informational interviews. Never heard of such a thing. But I had done one television commercial when I was Miss Illinois, 1979, in the Miss America scholarship pageant, which paid for all of my education, you know, and I thought, I wonder, I wonder if I could do something in TV. I'm going to fast forward this story, but essentially a position was created for me after I called up a television station, blindly and bravely, after six months of conversation, I got a job that was created for me by them. I learned everything on the job for those first three years, and then I got another job in the next larger market in Tampa, Florida. And then I came to Boston and I was one of, ended up being one of

the main news anchors here in Boston. I all told I had a 28 year career in television. That's chapter three. Wow. Then again organically, Jody, I had this feeling there's something more I'm supposed to do. How old for you? How old for you? That was 14 years ago now. So I'm 65, about to be 66. How the heck did that happen? I don't know. Stop right now. Oh, my God. I wish you could say, if you are not watching this interview and you feel like there's no hope after 40 or 50, just fucking tune in because, oh my God.

Okay. Anyway, carry on. I chose my grandparents very carefully, Jody. Yes, you did. Girl. Oh, my gosh. So anyway, back to the story for just a second. Yes.

So at about 50, chapter 4 began. Yeah, 51, actually, now that you say that, because I started thinking, oh, my gosh, what am I going to do? I feel like, you know, the men are staying. on and getting older, the women are getting younger, and I feel like there's more I'm supposed to do. I have no idea what it is, but I did know this time around that I had skills that I had honed, expertise that I could offer, I had gifts and talents that I believed I had been blessed with, thank you God. And I wanted to use all that to help people, to be of service, and to truly

help people get unstuck from where they are to where they want to go to who they want to be. Yes. And fast forward again. All these stories are in the book. So fast forward again. And one of my mentors, another informational round of interviews, and he said to me, Liz, you're well known, you're well respected. You have credibility. Yeah. That's value. Why would you give that to somebody else? Launch a business. If in six months or nine months, you don't like it, you don't have any clients. You can always go do something else. Now, Jody, I have never ever wanted to own my own business. I didn't think I was smart enough to own my own business. That's a limiting belief. Yes. I made the decision in that moment that I was going to launch a business and I was going to get out of TV and start this. And I did. That was 12 years ago now.

Wow. So you know more than you think you know. And for me, my themes and patterns were as a teacher and a singer sharing stories through song using my voice. As a journalist on the air, as a news anchor, I was sharing other people's stories using my voice. As an executive communications coach, I'm helping other people learn how to tell their story and use their voice so that they are seen and heard. And as a keynote speaker and an author, I'm sharing my story using my voice. Wow. And is there, does it feel like we've arrived? How many more versions do you think there might be in here? Well, you never know I might become a psychologist.

I feel like you're well on your way. I feel like this is going to happen. You know, somebody recently asked me, if I wasn't doing what I was doing now, what else might I do? And I said, well, maybe become a psychologist that could be on one path. And then the other is I love interior design and architecture, so who knows? Oh, my gosh. I do believe I am following what I am supposed to be doing right now.

I'm very passionate about it. And, you know, to come back to another part of your question about connection, which is I'm, I want people to understand that they can not only own who they are, but they can own that it factor of who they are. Yeah. Now, Jody, when have you been in a room and I mean, you have this quality? So you should know what it is. But you look across the room where you see somebody walk and you go, oh, oh, they've got an energy about them. You have that energy. You see it, you feel it, you're attracted to it, that's the it factor. And I believe everybody can have that if, if they're willing to intentionally transform. And that means connecting and aligning your physical, mental, and relational self. Because when you can do that, you're connected to yourself, once you really know who you are and can own it, And then you're able to now connect with the people around you, whether it's your teams, your family, your friends.

And then guess what? There's the ripple effect that goes to the outside. It is absolutely an inside job. And I think that we spend a lot of time looking for the external validation. And in this world, as you know, of social media, the constant inundation now, I think you're right. I think this is going to be our biggest challenge. And I'm interested, Liz, tell me about, like, personally, what has happened as you've navigated this as a woman because I think that the loneliness, you know, that, you know,

if I look at you at, you know, whatever, you know, in your early six. 65 right now. By the time this gets published, it's 66. In your mid-60s, we're at this place where, you know, there's been so many iterations for women and what we've been allowed to do, the expectations of, you know, having a career. What has that been like for you interpersonally, the relationship, you know, to your family and then growing your own set of, you know, internal people. Well, there are a number of layers to this, you know, one of which would be in my second television station where I was the only female in upper management before they put me on the air also. But I came in as the only woman in upper management, another position that was created.

I mean, talk about learning how to push through the glass ceiling. And, you know, these men were having these three martini lunches. I'm like, how do the hell are they doing that? I can't do this. And I didn't have anybody at that time, Jody, that I could talk. turn to and say, how do I do this? Yeah. And so you talk about the loneliness. I felt extremely lonely that I didn't have a mentor. I didn't know who to go to. And I didn't know what the heck I was doing. And I did a lot of listening. Okay. Okay. I did a lot of listening. Okay. And then when I was put on the air at that TV station, I still kept my manager's job. Now, what that meant was that I was privy to confidential information about my colleagues

with whom I'd be anchoring newscasts with and working in the newsroom with from my managerial meetings. Talk about feeling ostracized and lonely. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Really hard. Yeah. And then when... So you're doing frontline work and you are...

They also know you're their boss. Yes, in some respects. And then when I came to Boston, I was... first brought in as a correspondent and fill an anchor on the news magazine show Chronicle, which is just this award-winning amazing show that's still on the air after 30-some years. And so I came in to that role. Now, even though that show was a part of the television station, the news department and Chronicle at that time were very different beasts.

Yeah, yeah. And I didn't come in with the Big J on my chest for a journalist. Yeah. So when I now then, again, wearing two hats, I have a sign on my back. Did you see it that says, please give me two jobs to do at the same time? Yeah. I am a multitasker. Yeah. So I was doing two jobs again where I was working in Chronicle and I was working in the news department. And so many of these people in the news department who were journalists with the Big J and had been award-winning reporters and anchors and videographers, et cetera, and here I am a music major. And I never talked about the fact that I had been Miss Illinois in 1979 because I felt like again, I felt so lonely. again, I did not feel like I fit in. I've never felt like I fit in, Jody. And that's a very lonely

feeling. Yeah, yeah. Do you think that's common for women who are successful? I do. And the older I get, I think that that is very true. And I think it's also true. And I'm guessing you can relate to this. When you are successful, it's been my experience that not all women are supportive of you. Let's be honest. Whoa, she gets to be a tight circle, all right? Them bitches, they come. And tell me why.

What's your, why do you think that is such a common experience? That's a million dollar question. I believe it's jealousy. I believe it says more about them than it does about me. But I do think that, first of all, we live in a competitive world. I came from a very competitive industry. I mean, there is somebody who always wants your job, especially if you're sitting in that coveted anchor chair, the main anchor chair, which I did. And so people want that job and they're willing to do just about anything to make it happen.

But I also think, you know, there's a story I tell in the book, and this just still speaks volumes. There was a woman I knew in the community who was very successful, and she was now the CEO of this major company. She prided herself on supporting women and being a mentor for women. And one day we were at a luncheon together, and it was predominantly men. She was one of the only women there, and I knew her, so I thought, I'm going to go up and say hello. So she's already seated to my right, and this gentleman is sitting to the left as I walk up. And she turns to this man, and she goes, oh, meet Liz Bruner. She is one of the most, the best bodies in Boston.

I'm like, what? She saw me in flywheel, which was a spinning class at the time that existed. Now, how is this man ever going to take me seriously? Talk about a passive-aggressive comment. I don't know where that came from. And you're telling me you support women and that's how you introduce me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm very rarely speechless, Jody, but I'm not at that day.

Right. Like, that's what you know me for. Right? Yes. And I think that's so brilliant in terms of just even drawing attention to how we respect other women, how we do that. You know, because I would love to speak of, you know, I mean, this woman, whoever she was, is, you know, was also successful. And she was successful. And would also have loved to been introduced in a way that was like, this woman has been so instrumental in policy change or some of the best, you know, news stories ever covered have been by this woman.

Like if you open with that and there's also then the difference of, yes, are you beautiful? Are you, you know, attractive inside, outside? You've got the most beautiful, you know, light or glow or whatever. I mean, all of those things matter in this world. They do. They do. But my God, why we would never open with a man. I mean, I would fucking love to do that.

You should meet this guy. He's got the best body in Alberta. He runs this oil company. He's really, really successful and smart. But fuck, he's got the best body in Alberta. Holy shit. I know. And like, to be honest with you, Liz, sometimes I do shit like that because it is so discombobulating.

And so there is something, I think, very. very interesting about that play, but that only happens when I feel threatened. That only happens when I feel like I need to be the step up. And I think that there's something so wise in this process that if I am disregulated or feeling unseen in a particular room or that I have to kind of, you know, the data around this is interesting, particularly with white women, we say we're supportive of each other, but particularly white women compared to women of color, we will step on the shoulders of women of color under the guise of misogyny because we're like, we're going to protect us all, but, you know, so it is so many of these biases that have

become so conscious for me, and I'm sure there's thousands of more that I'm not even aware of in my white privilege, but it's like this sort of understanding that gives you so much power in this place where we all desperately want to be seen. If you get good at that, if you get good at that, and where that happens first, as I'm, you know, you've written about, and I'm hearing you say, is that it's got to start, it's an inside job. So I think there's a big difference between sort of self-care and doing the inside work. Can you give me your take on that? That's brilliant. Yes. I'm a big proponent of self-care. We all have to take care of ourselves. And that's even a piece of the it factor when I'm talking about physical. That it's not just, you know, your nonverbal communication

that you throw out into the world where your eyes are looking, how you walk into a room. It's how you take care of this, this body, this vessel. All right? Self-care is hugely important. But The second piece of that is the mental, which is the mind, the mindset. This is our compass, our internal GPS. What are you telling yourself? Yeah. What limiting beliefs are you saying, oh, I'm not ready, or I'll never be good enough, or I can't do that. You have to do this inner work.

Yeah. It is not a maybe. It's not a someday. It is a requirement in owning who you are and connecting to yourself. Doing the inner work. and it's not easy. Yeah. Do you arrive?

I believe we arrive at various points on our journey. Okay. And there may be a plateau for a little while. And we're like, okay, hey, I'm doing pretty good here. And guess what? Life goes on and there's another part of the journey. And I'm such a firm believer that we, as long as we are continuously willing to learn and grow, then we can continue to live our best life, whatever that means for you.

Now, some people say, well, why aren't you ever satisfied? It's not that I'm not satisfied. It's that I've come to a place of acceptance and ownership of who I am, connecting to myself, but I always want to continue to grow. I always want to learn. Can I be a better person in some way? Can I share a personal story that may in some way, shape, or form help somebody else? And okay, so give me your take on this because I actually think, you know, we have to think about growth is linear, you know, and even as you sort of described it there, it was like, you know, we're going up and then you kind of like, it's a stepwise process. I'm so interested in sort of the history of combining our ancestors and what's known in our souls

and our experiences to this idea that we don't lose our ability to be great. we lose access to it. And so that I think there's a certain knowing in each of our bodies that if we have had the privilege of having the experiences of people who've believed in us or who have put their life on the line for us or who could sit with us in the mess or, you know, had the emotional regulation capacity to sort of help us garner those things, that then you become more and more equipped to sort of access the best parts of yourself more often, okay? If you have been surrounded by multiple generations of abuse, neglect, and trauma, if you are raised in the guise

of addiction, if you have, like, whatever, you know, so I think things like that really debilitate that access are things like trauma and grief and loneliness. And when those things, which are universal experiences, come along, we lose access to whatever growth we've been doing, right? So there's like a standard of practice that comes with given, you know, the privilege that you've, you've been born into or that you're raised into or whatever, okay? So I think we have to acknowledge. We don't all start in the same place. Depending on where that is, I think it gives you a respective capacity to do more, to be better. And then it is the people with which you surround the work that you do to stay there. Not to stay there always. It's to get back

there. Because you'll lose your fucking way. Grief will happen. Your dad dies. Somebody divorces you somebody has an affair on you you don't have your kids are assholes like whatever the deal is right is that is that been your experience tell me about the deviations for you when it's like thrown you off your game i've had a hell of a lot of them jody where do i want to know i want to know where do i begin uh you know one of the stories that i have just recently it's taken a long time for me to get comfortable to say this and you're actually one of the first people i'm sharing it with which is that people will often look at me and go, oh, my God, she's so successful. She's this Emmy Award winning this, and she's got this best-selling book, that, and oh, my God,

her life has been so easy. Well, guess what? It's not been easy, and I have not always had success, particularly in personal relationships. And I've been married before a few times. And one husband was acknowledged that he was gay. Another couldn't handle my public life. And another didn't necessarily believe in marriage after all. So while I've not been successful in that arena yet,

can I just add that? I would argue that you have been, because those iterations, when you can identify those four, like, 4.0s, those humans were with you during those evolutions and they matched. You continued to evolve and they didn't, or they did and it was in the, you know, would you say? Yeah, it's all of that. And people, you know, for a long time, I felt like a major failure, as you can imagine.

And I had to work past that. And to your point a moment ago about, you know, you take those steps backwards, I may tell you, there were some hard, hard time. emotionally. Yeah. But I'm also such a firm believer that while others may say, oh, she's such a failure at that, good Lord, you know what? I'm not. I'm not a failure at it because I learned the lessons that I needed to learn and

still learning. And that to me is the definition of, you know, it's not a failure unless you don't learn the lesson. Right. If you don't learn the lessons, then it is. Yeah, then what's the point? Well, and if I think about your, I can understand why, and I'm just going to make this guess because I don't obviously know like your history deeply, but like the having being raised in a religious space, you know, having a very culturally astute mother, you know, all of those things would sort of the indication would be you find a human and you make that work. And I think many of us women get into this place which of all, which allows for zero capacity for evolution. So there is this data that is. is very clear when building a family system or, you know, like, is it best if two people

stay together and you grow together and you, the depth of your relationship, you know, blah, that, which I, like, the data is clear about that, right? Like, if you can navigate that, if you were in, in a place where those sort of things all lined up and together you evolved successfully enough, you know, Esther Perel is one of my favorites in, in this space. It's just so fucking brilliant. And so is it possible? Yes, yes, yes. Okay. Is that been the fundamental expectation for the vast majority of women, particularly in North America? Yes. Is that achievable? The data would say no. The data would say that in least 60% of cases, that is very hard, that a lot of women then have to make significant sacrifices because who it benefits more on paper,

and this may be not always be true, is men. Men who stay married are much healthier than women who stay married. So I do believe that there is certainly a bravery to this idea of evolving in relationship. And I think there is always the need to reflect on our own work that needs to be done. You know, if we've been through three of them, okay, what the fuck? Is there a common denominator here? Okay. Do I need to be? And that's where the common denominator. Okay. Let's just start right there. But that's, but that's where the guilt and the shame comes in. Or is it you have now moved in a way in one generation through so many iterations that the evolution in your soul, the women and the people who admire you the most,

you can't tell them how to do this, you're showing them, right? The daughters and sons that are watching it happen are like, okay, right? And so I think I don't, and I don't think that's a sugar-coady way of like, you know, you good, oh, fuck, you're close. But like, I think it's also like there's so much truth to that

because would you have, would we have lauded you then if you stayed with the gay guy and you've been married for 40 years and we were like, you did it, knowing that neither of you needed to be in that for more than the season it gave you. Correct. Right? There are so many lessons here.

Number one, courage is a choice. And it takes courage to be brave. And it takes giving yourself permission to have the courage to be brave to make those changes and be willing to evolve and grow. Okay, okay. You, it comes back to that inner work. You have to be willing to do that. And I'll never forget the first time I heard Jack Canfield in his, in his book. And he gives the forward to your book. And we just point that out. Jesus, hello, Jack. Thank you. I remember reading his book and he talks about, and he even talked about it on the podcast episode that he did with me and I invite people to listen to it because it's a really

great show. He even said it was a great show. So I'm not speaking out of turn. But he talks about the fact that you are 100% responsible for where you are in your life. And I was like, no, I'm not. Can I tell you who's fucking got me here and who has not been helpful? Yeah. But what I eventually learned was, yeah, because I had lost my courage, I had lost my own authenticity, I had lost who I am in order to try to stay in relationships that were not the best or healthiest for me. Yeah. So yes, I, in that respect, was 100% responsible for my actions and where I was.

Right. And I changed that. Yeah, I did. Yeah, yeah. And in this next iteration, what I'm interested, like I'm so fascinated at 65 years old that you're like, okay, let's buckle up. I feel like now, right? Can you, but I mean, like, let's just think about that for women, for anybody who

in this place of like, okay, is it possible if I've been through a couple of iterations in my life? And I look at, you know, people who I admire the most in this world, my brother being one of them, you know, just recently married into a second marriage. And I have never seen such a transition in the person I've known the longest. And it was the necessary work that I watched him do and that I would do at three o'clock in the morning alongside of him, you know, questioning how we got here and how did that happen and, you know, the intentions behind all the behavior. And just watching that evolution happen. And I think the question is, you know, we hear all the time, you know, people, can you really change? Like, do you ever really change your colors? Can you,

do you always get back to that person? And I like, I just think like, holy fuck, if we believe that to be true, right, that people do not have the capacity to change. Do they have the desire? Do they have the courage? That's the question we should be asking. Not whether can they do it, because there is the irrefutable data that would suggest you absolutely can and should if you want to get the most out of this life or be very, I think, in tune with the calling or the reason why you're here. And so, I mean, you know, you may not believe that to be true. But in my space, I mean, I do very much believe there's a reason why we chose the people we're surrounded with, why we are given the skills that we are, and that it is our willingness

or lack thereof to step fully into that calling that allows us to feel in alignment. And depending on our choices, depending on our accessibility or availability, all of those kind of things, it then dictates how far you can go into that potential. And I think so many of us are so untapped in that space. Would you agree? I agree 100%. And again, I come back to transformation is possible if it's intentional. Okay.

you need to be willing to say, you know what, what got me to where I am today may not get me to where I want to be tomorrow. So what do I need to do differently? And my mom, I talk about her in the book as a social worker. She often asked these three questions when she was practicing as a social worker. You know, what do I need to do differently? And am I willing to do it? I mean, that's the bottom line. Okay, yeah, I know I need to change X, Y, or Z. But, I'm not. I know I need to change X, Y, or Z. But, are you willing to do it? Yeah. And are you willing to continue to try to do it if you don't succeed the first time around? Because let's face it, nobody's perfect. I'm not perfect. I do not pretend to have all the answers. Yeah. But what I do know is I'm willing to learn, I'm willing to

grow, I'm willing to be intentional about my own transformation and evolution. And I believe as I continue to do that, then God willing, I'm able to share some sort of message to other people who say, you know, and that was why I had my podcast, Live Your Best Life with Liz Bruner, because I wanted to be able to share with the world people who had transformed, people who had recreated their lives, people who had pivoted to different careers, because when people hear those stories, they go, huh, you know, if that person did it, maybe I can too. Oh, yeah. Maybe I can't do. You can't tell anybody how to be great. You have to show them. And I think that's the greatest impetus for any of the work that we do.

You know, when I speak to organizations globally now about burnout. And I think we're in a season where in whatever organization we're in, it's only going to get worse. And that's the bad news, right? And oftentimes I open keynotes with this conversation because you can't address what you don't acknowledge. So the necessary journey, I think, for any of us doing any good work, and it comes from my clinical practice is you've got to rip your soul out, acknowledge it, and then put it back together. You know, if we, we, and we don't like that stuff. We want to just jump, what are the strategies and what are the solutions?

Give me the answers. And the problem is I, I know the answers, I think. I mean, I'm pretty smart at some of those things. We are good at that. But if you don't take people on that journey, even abbreviated, in an abbreviated way, what you will end up at the end with is yes, but. I've already tried that. You don't get it.

You're not listening. You didn't understand, right? So the chaos is necessary to learn the calm and we are so fearful of the chaos part of things because again, we're best when we're regulated. We're best when we're calm and happy and we have access to the best parts of ourselves. So obviously it is a wish that we want for our partners and our children and all of those things. But how we get there, I think is going to be the greatest work of this next generation, which is getting understanding that you have to go in before you can go outside.

And that inner work requires a stillness and a quiet that we are increasingly having no access to because we just keep so busy. We strap on a watch. We got our email notification. At this moment, I have two computers, a camera, my watch is attached to me. My phone is seconds away from me, seconds, I mean, like inches away from me, all of which are contained to people and humans that I love and humans that I don't love. So my children have instant access to me.

My husband has instant access to everybody I work with. Everybody has an opinion about what we do is right here. And the notifications come in hard and fast. At what point does that allow for a pathway to inner work? That has to be, as you have said in this book and in this podcast, intentional. If you do not do it on purpose, the world will take everything from you. Not because it's sinister. I'm very, I think this needs to be talked about more.

I don't think it's sinister. It is so much more beneficial to the world to have us disconnected because we will buy more like meta, Apple, Uber, and Amazon, okay, let's take the big four. They own a $8.49 trillion market share capitalization right now. Just this shows four, let alone the Riverside. and all the things that we have going on in this very day. But that's a pretty big draw to keep us disconnected on our devices, being more efficient with AI, doing all of the things in our organizations where,

you know what, save the money work from home. And the cost to that, I think, will be the uncovering of the next generation, which is we will never automate relationship. We need each other. You can't. We do need each other. And to your point, we are bombarded. with information overload.

It's coming at us from every which way, whether we want it to or not. And so because of that information overload, it does not allow space, if you will, to have that stillness unless it is a choice, unless you carve it out and literally turn off everything so that you can have that stillness

where you can reconnect with yourself. And isn't that hard? Like, I know the data around this. And, like, I say this all the time, Liz. My favorite place right now is on a plane. And people think this is weird. I'm a mother of three. I, like, have this beautiful life that we've created here.

I, my, I am best when I'm on the road. Mostly because I, so Marty and I are probably in a plane 200 times a year, okay, given the ups and the downstall the places that we speak at. And I, I, it's my favorite place, mostly because nobody can get me. Right. I really, they can. You have a little more control. How's that?

I don't get on the Wi-Fi. And I really literally have to be 45,000 feet above this planet in order to give myself permission to know that no matter what happens in this four-hour flight or whatever I'm at, that I can't do anything about my dad. I can't do anything about my babies. I have that permission to, our parents, when they would leave their work and come home, nobody could get them. We have not talked about that.

You could, at the beginning of your career, go in and do a news segment, and then you would leave with no access to anybody's opinion or feedback about how you looked that day, how you sounded that day, how you reported on things. You had some time when you entered into the sanctity of your home, whatever that looked like, to have no inundation of data. Maybe some opinion from a mother-in-law or a partner or, but those were specific. and you could tell stories about them. Now, when you do a podcast or you do an event, you go back and what do we do?

I mean, I know this is bad news, but what do I do? I'm checking all of the opinions. And I feel like I'm solid enough in my own, right. I'm solid enough in my own being that I'm like, I can be like, oh, fuck off, Betty. Or like, what do you know fucking Susan? Like, but also I'm not that good. And so the protection of that inner work, I think. Because, you know, in my practice, people say this in the middle time.

You know what I want? I just want to live in the bushes. I want to get a place in the woods where nobody could get me. And it's like we really literally have to physically take ourselves into spaces, places, where nobody can access us. And we're going to have to get better at doing that in the middle of the noise, don't you think? A hundred percent because, as I said, we are just bombarded with information. And again, it is a choice.

One of my favorite things to do every morning, I get up, I make my coffee, have my breakfast. I check, you know, see if there's anything urgent on email just because I want to make sure I haven't missed anything. And then I go into my journaling and meditation. And I've been doing that for 40 years now. And I literally, there are six different sources that I read in, you know, a quote from or a religious verse or a spiritual or a positive message. And that's what sets my tone for the day. And it's very extemporaneous journaling. It's like it's nothing fancy. It's just whatever comes to my brain. It's almost like a brain dump, but for me, that is my way of connecting to myself and doing my own inner work, believe it or not, because I'm able to process some things and go, oh, my gosh, I just realized now I'm connecting the dots with this, this, this, this, and this and this. And how long we don't allow ourselves to do that enough? Oh, my gosh. And I'll have to tell you, like, so in this season where we've never been, you know, I speak 100 times a year for the last four years. years, and it is the greatest gift of all time. I'm just, it's dreamy, you know, but we're on to writing the next book. And, you know, Marty and I have talked about this, like, it's not that

it has to be a lot of time, but when I go quiet, the creative process in me, it scares me a little bit about how good I can be. You know, it's interesting because when I was writing my first book, I really truly did not know how I was going to put all of this together. All I know is my writing coach at the time was like, Liz, just keep writing. I want to know more about this story, more about that story, more about that. I'm like, you do? Okay. And what would happen for me, Jody, when I would just kind of get still enough and I would just start writing, I literally felt like I had downloads from the universe. Yeah. And it went through my hands onto the computer. I can't explain it any other way, but it's because I got so connected to myself, to that stillness

that I allowed that to come through. And I believe we all have access to that again. Are you giving yourself permission? Are you willing to be brave to go there? Because let's face it, sometimes you're going to feel stuff and know stuff that you're like, oh, my God. No, thank you. No, thank you.

And look, we want certainty. We don't like to be uncomfortable. That's why, you know, in this day and age when everything's fast, fast, fast, fast, fast, we want to skip to, okay, I want to feel better now. I don't want to go through steps ABC, D, E, F, D, D, gee, I want to get to Z right now. Yeah. But we have to go through the entire alphabet to get there.

Oh, man. That's the good news and the bad news, friends. But she is not wrong. Not wrong. Okay, Liz Bruner. I dare to own you is her book forward by Jack Canfield, which, I mean, I have just began and I cannot wait to read a little bit more about it. I will link it in everything that we got here in the show notes.

And so we have access to that. And, of course, everywhere you can find, Liz, I want to know what's next for you. My next book. Yes. You said you're writing on yours. I've kind of started. And it really is going to be about this alignment and what that means and how every single one of us can intentionally transform IT, it factor. Can you make that connection?

Love it. I actually trademarked that. And I just, I'm very excited about this because I believe. we all have access to it. And when we do, we are not only our best selves for ourselves, but we're our best selves out in the world. And that's why we're here. We don't get out of here alive, right?

Let's do it. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much. Thank you so, so much for this. It was a dream to sit with you. I cannot wait for our next hug. And listen, everybody, hang on to each other, lean into each other. but really we know that the answer is you got to go in before you go out so deep breath drop the

shoulders you have everything you need to go to be better to do better and we've never needed you now more than ever the unloanly podcast is produced by three incredible humans Brian Siever, Taylor McGilvery, and Jeremy Saunders, all of SnackLab Productions. Our executive producer, my favorite human on this planet, is Marty Pillar. Soundtracks were created by Donovan Morgan, Unloney Branded artwork created by Elliot Cuss, our big PR shooters, our Desvino and Barry Cohen. Our digital marketing manager is the amazing, Shana Haddon, our AAWR. 7 Secret Agent from the Talent Bureau is Jeff Lowness.

And emotional support is provided by Asher Grant, Evan Grant, and Olivia Grant. Go live! I am a registered clinical psychologist in Alberta, Canada. The content created and produced in this show is not intended as specific therapeutic advice. The intention of this podcast is to provide information, resources, education, and the one thing I think we all need the most. a safe place to land in this lonely world. We're all so glad you're here. Acast powers the world's best podcasts.

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