Unlonely with Dr. Jody Carrington - Debunking the "ADHD Superpower" Myth (and What to Do Instead) - Cathy Rashidian

Episode Date: January 22, 2026

Is ADHD really a "superpower"? Or is that just a toxic label that sets high-performers up for a massive crash?In this episode, Dr. Jody sits down with executive coach Cathy Rashidian (aka The Candid Empath) to dismantle the popular "superpower" narrative. They unpack the visceral reality of leading with a "fast brain"—from the dopamine-fueled highs of hyper-focus to the crushing "hangover" that inevitably follows.They also tackle the "Accidental Leader" trap: why so many of us are promoted eight years before we’re actually trained, why we become "self-appointed fire marshals" just to get our dopamine hits, and why "resilience" has become a dirty word for leaders who are tired of bouncing back.In this conversationThe "Superpower" Trap: Why Cathy views her brain as a "messy roommate" rather than a superhero—and why that distinction matters.The Hyper-Focus Hangover: The biological cost of flow states and why you need a "body budget."The 8-Year Gap: The "peer-to-boss" transition and why you’re likely DIY-ing your leadership style.Marination vs. Procrastination: Why doing nothing is actually when the real work happens.Toxic Resilience: Why we need to stop proving we can handle it all and start setting boundaries that fuel us.If you’ve ever felt like your "genius" comes with a heavy price tag, or if you are tired of being the most resilient person in the room, this conversation is the permission slip you didn’t know you needed.🔗 Links & Resources:Cathy Rashidian, ACCG, PCAC, PCC - ADD Coach Academy (Coach Directory): https://addca.com/adhd-coach-directory/coach/cathy_rashidian/From Peer to Boss: How New Managers Overcome the Challenges: https://www.roberthalf.com/us/en/insights/management-tips/from-peer-to-boss-how-new-managers-overcome-the-challengesHow to Prevent Burnout in Leaders | DDI: https://www.ddi.com/blog/prevent-burnoutLeadership Fatigue: Burned Out Leaders Are Quiet Quitting At Work Too: https://www.forbes.com/sites/dianehamilton/2025/02/03/leadership-fatigue-burned-out-leaders-are-quiet-quitting-at-work-too/ADHD Coaching for Professionals | Ready Set Choose: https://www.readysetchoose.com/Cathy Rashidian - PAAC: https://paaccoaches.org/cathy-rashidian/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back, welcome in, everybody back in here in season three of Un Lonely and this one today. Kathy Rashidian. Coach Kathy is her name and I, listen, I have a lot of opinions about people in the coaching space and I see my own personal therapist who formerly known as a psychologist now operates in the coaching space and I adore her. I think there's many, many things that people are doing right in the space. Kathy is one of them. Many, many people are fucking out of poor obli and hurting people.

And so I wanted to bring Kathy's message to this season because she's articulate. She is brilliant. She's done so much for people in a space where I think it's really underrepresented. She challenges the myth of grit that leads to burnout. for high performers. So she comes with a beautiful pedigree. Over two decades in demanding corporate leadership roles at giants like Tellis and Deloitte, she intimately understands the relentless pressure driven, the pressures that driven individuals face. And she's seen how firsthand, how high achievers try the tools and follow the frameworks from books and clinical experts,

only to remain frustrated and exhausted. She has a special interest in, um, working with non-neurotypical humans. So lots about high-functioning people with ADHD. What does that look like in your workplace? And so we talk a little bit about that today. What I'm super jacked about is, you know, as an executive coach and speaker, she holds credentials from both the International Coaching Federation and the Professional Association of ADHD coaches, which has its own little subset,

which I think is really interesting. And so she's the founder of Ready Set Choose Coaching Incorporated, and she's done just so many great things in this space. She's candid, she's transformative, and in her own neurodiversity-informed style, she kind of talks about how hustle culture and even traditional advice often can't address the profound clarity that leads to sustainable personalized change.

And dig in with us, because as you know, one of the areas that I want to talk about all the time is leadership, women, what happens in this workplace that is so changing so rapidly. And we have some really great conversations in this episode about that. And so if you are in the workplace, particularly if you know or are somebody who is struggling to sort of make sense of how we lead in in today's world, this one's for you. Enjoy. All right, Kathy Rashidian, I want to jump right in.

Okay, because we have the expert here on leadership. What? Why? And maybe I'm making an assumption here. Why is leading these days harder than it's ever been? Oh my God. You have to like start with a bang there. It's a banger.

I mean, leaders are fucking exhausted right now. Yes. And we have missed the mark in providing support and system infrastructure. We're just trying to serve the customer, the client, making sure all the resources are in place. And I think we're forgetting about the leaders. So what is happening to them? What are you seeing in the leaders that you're coaching and you're serving?

You know, it's interesting. A while ago, there was a survey that came out from International Coach Federation, ICF, around leadership development, leadership skill development. And one of the things that was said was most often leaders aren't getting the training on how to be a so-called effective leader until about eight years into the role. Okay. Like, dude, can we talk about that for a second? So I am a high performer. I'm really good at what I do. And my boss says, Kathy, you are now promoted. You are now the team lead of these five amazing peers of yours that one day they were your peers and now you're their boss. Right. You're going for wine on Friday.

Yeah. You're going for wine on Friday. And now you've got to enforce some shit and like are you meeting deadlines. Yes. And also I know their stuff and they know my business because we were all peers. Nobody was thinking one day Kathy is going to be promoted. And so here I am trying to make it work, trying to make it make sense. What are my boundaries? What are the things I should be doing? Should I be overhelping? Like, what is my role as a leader? Now, if I'm lucky enough that I've worked in teams where I had mentors around me, that I could have kind of mimicked what they do, oh, I think Johnny does it this way with his team. Let me copy his stuff. Or if I have this love of learning that I'm like, I'm going to go get some books. I'm going to get some books on leadership,

the deservant leader, the whatever leader, all of those frameworks that are out there. Fine. But still, I'm still lacking this like, let me talk it out with somebody. Let me role play this scenario. Let me, am I in my own assumptions? What are my biases that I have? Right. Like all of those are coming in, but I'm just DIYing leadership until five years down the road, Kathy who was promoted one day was a superstar is now exhausted and burnt out. And also her team is going, gosh, we just cannot keep up with Kathy. And by the way, Kathy is neurodivergent. So she thinks too fast. So she's burning not only herself out, but also her team. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like I could go on with the different scenarios on this. This is where I feel like that that group is so neglected.

And then by the way, there's people like me, consultants that come in and say, oh, and you also need to know about neurodiversity. You also need to know about mental health in the workplace. And you also need to know about DEI. Like, could we just come down here for a second? Yeah. So let's back that up then a little bit because what I think is interesting, even at the foundation of this is that like in this world of promotional leadership, which is you were good at your job. So we see this in education. We see this in justice, you know, policing. We see this in corporate. You were good at your sales role. You were good at your teaching role. So son of a bitch, we think then you should leave. lead. Those are two very different skill sets. Are they not? And how are we setting up people for failure?

Do you see, have you seen some companies do this well where you're sort of thinking outside of like, not just do your job. That means you get promoted up the ladder. But how do we think of those as two very separate things? Yeah. I actually, I always say, I honestly, I feel like I was lucky. I was always at the right place at the right time back in my corporate days. Yeah. I work for a big consulting firm and the minute that my CMO came in and I was reporting into my CMO and I had a large team that I was managing, we were a digital team and there was 15 of us. I had grown the team from team of five to a team of 15. She goes, I need to give you a executive coach because I don't want to coach you. I want to be your CMO but I need you to have coach conversations. I need you to be in a

safe space, right? We talk about psychological safety where I can disarm and just be me. Yeah. And man, that was so pivotal for me is to have a space where I could go and just dump and then think it out loud with somebody else. And that was a good example for me where I saw, wow, or community. I also had in the same firm, when I joined, they said, here's your buddy. This buddy knows this company's the goods, the bad, the ugly. So they budded me up with somebody that knew the office politics. So I wasn't sitting there in the first 90 days going, what the hell am I doing here? Who's who? What do I do with this person?

What do I do with that person? So I also had the in a little bit with my body. I love that. Right. And so those two things to consider, right? Like executive coaching, that external resource, sort of setting your people up for success in that way. And then also really in the larger companies, you know, how do we do this?

What I'm interested in too, in this smaller company. So I think about some of the women that I, you know, admire in the, this entrepreneurial space where there is no sort of script for entrepreneurs, I mean, which is the beauty of it and the cost of it. I watch some of my successors, you know, who have done it route, like the Rachel Milkees at the world, who, you know, is the founder of Hilberg and Burke. And I mean, a good friend of mine, Chow Louis, Trang Wong, who co-owned parish dealers now, Selly, they have invested so much time in mentorship. in investing in groups.

And so what I love about this is there's sort of two places you play in this way, right, is the mentorship, the one-on-one coaching mentorship piece and then putting yourselves into group opportunities. 100%. Where other people, because like, is this true that this isn't necessarily about the company that you're serving? Because we can talk about me building a company around, you know, creating mental health resources and providing direction around human connection.

and she or they are developing jewelry lines. We come upon the same conversation, right? Because this is, like, leadership is a human game. Yeah. Is this true? Yes, 100%. And also, it can be a lonely game. Oh, tell me about that.

So that, and I love the title right there, the unloanly. It is lonely, man. I went from being in a group, being in a community, having my own team to transition to doing working for myself. I'm like, oh shit, I don't have anybody to bounce these ideas off of all of a sudden. I'm all alone now. Or even like I'm spinning in my own rumination catastrophization on something that went wrong. Who do I talk it out loud with?

Are others doing it the same as me? Is there any better way to do it? And all of the, which then spun up my group coaching for bringing community of leaders together. And especially with the minute you go up the ladder a little bit more, it does get lonely. and lonelier. Right? So it's, we're sitting in that. Go ahead. No, no, no, no. We're sitting in that. Go ahead. And we're sitting in that. And then all of a sudden, it starts to be all internalized. It's me. I'm the problem. I'm the thing. I need to push harder, which is the resilience piece that goes kind of sideways. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And let's jump into that because I think, I think this is, you know, from my own

experience, I'll tell you, you know, building a company as a woman. There's so many things that come against it in terms of motherhood and the questions in, you know, in the community. And we, Marty and I started this company in a very small community. And so you're, you're grabbing people who are your best friends, who you're raising babies with, who, you know, have some experience secondarily because at one point they did something. And it's like, you're in, you're in, you're in. And then as those relationships grow, our goals, our desires, our life circumstances come into place. And then, as you said, you're having to have these really hard conversations with people you deeply love. And, you know, parting ways. Yes. Monitoring their work. Like, you know, again,

and this, this was something that I marvel at all the time. You know, Marty and I have been together over a decade now. And she's the C.O. I, I worry all the time, not less now than I used to about maintaining that relationship. And, you know, being in this place of, you know, we travel together. We know each other's kids a lot. We know each other's relationships. You know, like, kind of things happen, that boundary piece, how do you do that well? Like, it has been such a growth curve for me. And I, and I, I don't know that we talk about this enough, right? How you manage it all. People say that to me quite often. I'm going in circles here. So you can just pick up wherever you want. Yes. But it's like, how do you do it all? And I fucking don't. Like, like, that's the thing,

right? Is that like I, I, I, we have a nanny who, you know, managing that relationship is a full time job. because I want to make sure she knows how much she matters. In fact, she's my most important employee managing a marriage where I make may more than my husband ever does. What does that look like in our marriage and our relationship? My parents, his parents, you know, opinions about how much you're working. Are you hurting the children? What does this mean?

You know, the community's opinions about that where, oh, you're never home. You missed hockey practice. I think she was really upset on the bench today because you weren't here. Oh, my God. But, you know, like all of that happened, which may or may not be true. You're right. Yeah. And so at the end of the day, like I'm so interested. And then if you add neurodiversity on top of it, which I know is your sort of area of expertise, we see a lot of very successful people that, you know, have ADHD on board or are on the spectrum in some

capacity or, you know, which just I think the bottom line is true. We're leading humans through this process. It comes back to emotional regulation. The more you have on your plane, including marginalization, trauma, neurodivergence. It makes that. job even harder. So can we just acknowledge that? Amen. Amen, girlfriend. This, this is why I love listening to you. I'm like, you just go. You go. Yeah, but tell me about that because you've seen this space is so critically important. So here's, and you just kind of gave me such a beautiful picture of it of, and then it all comes to a crashing halt, not that yours would. But it's, it has many times, to be aware of it, that it will come. I was talking to somebody. I was talking to somebody,

the other day and he said, I really need to figure out this ADHD autism burnout. And I'm like, why do you need to figure it out? Could we just for a second say that somebody who has a fast brain, we will sit in states of hyper focus for hours on end to the point that, you know, our brain goes with the dopamine surging so high that the next day it will be a crash. And for me, the book by Anna Lemke was a gift to me because dopamine nation. She talks about what goes up must come down. I didn't realize that the day after three days of hyperfocus and Jody, I love my hyperfocus. Sometimes I intentionally make it happen so I'm hyperfocused, right?

I'm on a natural high. It's beautiful. I'm in flow. But three days after it, I'm useless. I am done for dinner. And before that used to be shame, guilt. Why can't I sustain? why can't I be like my peers?

Lazy. I'm lazy. Now I'm like, wait, my brain actually needs to recalibrate. Brain science one-on-one. What goes up must come down. So my dopamine cannot sustain that level of high all the time. It's just not supposed to. So for me, I call it hangover, a hyper-focused hangover.

So I'm sitting in this hyper-focused hangover. And what do we do? We're done. I'm going to chill. I'm going to have a lazy day. For example, this meeting that I have with you right now, this is the thing of my today. That's it. Nothing else.

I am not going to be productive in any other way because this is like my jam. And I know the other things are going to be mundane little things. Just remembering to pick up little Sophie from school is enough. Yeah. You know, and being reasonable with that, adjusting to that. The minute I let go of that shame and guilt of that sustaining, right, and the consistency always show up. I was doing YouTube videos for a while this summer. I'm on a break, damn it.

I pumped out 10. It kicked my ass. I'm just slowing down here. Well, and I think we got to put the context into play here, which is what I don't think we recognize. Okay. So we're up against an ideal that was set out by our parents, who were our mentors, you know. Like I often speak about my dad, the success that he created, the legacy that he's left his grandkids.

All I know how he created that was you work at the cost of everything. including your marriage, your family, and you went hard all the time. Now, what my dad didn't have was social media. What my dad didn't have until way later in his career was a cell phone. Nobody could get him for the vast majority of the day. And when he came home at 5 o'clock, he was free of people. And he had a Sunday that was sacred. He couldn't get grocery.

He couldn't do anything, right? So we were forced to either be picking rocks on the farm or doing something together. we really, I think, underestimate the fact that right now as leaders, we have, for the first time in history, we are the first group of leaders where everybody has access to us all the time. Yes. And we make that a badge of honor. Yeah. And I have you any time, you've got me any time, right?

And boundaries for me is such a word that I have struggled with so much. And it, like, got in trouble about it, like, have went toe to toe with people about it. because for a very long time, I misunderstood the intention of a boundary. It is not to keep people out. It is to fuel you. 100%. And I think for a long time, right, when we play in this space of connection and community, we're like boundary, the lack of boundaries keeping people out is not what we do.

We're inclusive. I want to be available. I want to feel like a team, a family. There is no work life balance. That's fucking ridiculous. list. Are you kidding me? That doesn't exist anymore. So let's rewrite those rules. So along with that came then, our expectation that we are readily available for the kids we serve or the teachers that get the call in the middle of the night or I have a suicidal patient. How do you expect me to say,

no, I'm unavailable between the hours? I mean, mental health doesn't happen in those hours. And any CEO can say that. If we've crashed, right, what do we do about that? So tell me a little bit about how you've come to understand boundaries, defining that, and how do we enforce that? And how do we enforce or consider to give ourselves some grace in that way so that we can do it for us, not at the expense of the people we serve. Yeah, and actually it's interesting. This month, my whole theme this month in my head is around delegation. And the minute I say delegation, my leaders go, well, if I delegate too much, then

why am I even needed? I'm like, well, then you're missing the whole point of why you're a leader. So let's define that for you in the first place. What does leadership mean? My biggest lesson when I when that coach came to me she goes Kathy you have an open door policy You have spoiled them with they come to you with a problem You solve it and they love it and they walk away She's like aren't they getting paid aren't these professional people getting paid to do the thing

Like yeah but they need me you know I have I have I see different things differently so they come to me for that Yeah, but this is the part that I didn't understand is that dopamine hit that I'm getting for Ooh I solved another problem I was like problem solver galore. I actually usually used to call myself the self-appointed fire marshal Jody. I loved it. I was like, let me put out every fire. This is amazing. To what detriment? Like talk about boundaries. But part of it was because I could see problems that others didn't and risks that others were like, I might, dude, if you just modified this a little bit, it could go a long way. But here's the thing. Most of the time, they weren't ready to see my solutions yet. So not only am I still.

stepping over my boundaries with them meddling in their business. But also I'd walk away pissed off going, well, what the hell? Why you're not taking my advice? You asked me for a solution. I gave it to you. Yeah. What the fuck do you want for me? Yeah, exactly.

Oh my God. So then when it comes to boundaries, what I say also is, is it fueling you in the negative interest kind of a way? Like that dopamine that actually shouldn't, it's like the wrong kind of dopamine if there is such a thing. Yeah. There isn't. But you know what I mean?

It's that negative way of like, oh, I like it. I'm getting off of this and let me do it. So we go from that to all of a sudden boundaries, I'm going to say no to everything. And I'm going to have my, you know, say on things. Self-righteous, I am protecting. Right. So there needs to be this happy medium.

There needs to be what is in the middle of these colors of black and white. There are other colors. And let's not get caught in this all or nothing thinking that comes through in boundaries. I love that so much because I think so, so what this? then can you just, I mean, let's circle back into this toxic resilience because I think that's where it really comes back. Resilience is such a word in the leadership space right now, creating resiliency in our employees and the people we're serving, all of those kind of things. Tell me a little bit about why that's, why that is a good thing and how it's become, I think,

something that becomes toxic sometimes. I know, but it just becomes too much. You know, I was sitting in, I went, through some, I'm always self-healing, self-reflection. I was in trauma therapy a few years ago. And the therapist turned around and goes, Kathy, you're just so resilient. It gave me a visceral like, ugh, when she said that. I go, please don't say that. She goes, why? I go, I'm tired of being resilient. I'm just tired of being. And even now to, I say it, I get goosebumps. You know, immigrant, child, first generation, lived in war when I was little, went through cancer when I was 35, you know, had a late in life baby when I was 40 and then freaking pre-manipause kicked my ass at 40. Like, could we just go on, right?

Resigned abruptly at jobs that were actually good, but I didn't know how to manage it, how to navigate it. Like, Jody, I've been, I've lived it. And so when she said that, I was like, I don't. don't want to be resilient anymore. There has to be a different way to do this. I know. And as women, don't we hear this all the time?

Like, I'm fucking tired. Great, that I'm good. I get it. I have accomplished a lot of things. And the children are great because of me. But I am fucking tired of putting people back together.

I really am. Like, I mean, and I, and I gets mad at it, right? Like, and Aaron doesn't stand a chance

my personal husband because I'm like, I'm fucking tired of working with making sure you're okay and pulling the the things together and dealing with your family system, which I adore to the core of me. But also, when we end up in leadership roles, that's, we've put ourselves here. Yeah. Like, I am the one in my family system that says, got it. I got it.

I got it. And people will say, Jody, just call Jody. She's got it figured out. And there was a time where I've created that system, right? It is the dopamine hits. And I'm fucking good at it. Like, let's be clear. And then, like, how do I then have the audacity at now 50 to be like, get fucked?

I want off this train that I created. Okay? Amen. I'm not sure what I'm going to do when I get off it, but I just really want fucking off it. So you know what? I'm going to get divorced. I'm going to live by myself in a hut. And you know what?

The children, I feel like the bricks and murder are there. Okay? They're fine. I'm just going to get on a plane and go do something that hits my dopamine. And we're seeing this in the data, right? Less more and more childless women. Mm-hmm. We're seeing more and more single women.

Women are much healthier, live longer, become more financially stable, less suicidal, to less homicidal when they're single. The exact opposite is true for men on every one of those data points. Amazing. Much more financially secure. Less risk of homicide. Less risk of suicide. So the burden of being a leader in this time is something that we need to talk more and

more about, I think, because I think we're going to see a lot of people just be like, fuck it. And that is not what we need, right? Yeah. And now here's the part where I go all or nothing. Let's tame it. We don't need to go to the extreme, right? Because for me, the extreme was twice resigning from jobs that actually now I go back.

I'm like, oh, should, I could have had I known. So this is like, let me just knowledge transfer a little bit for our listeners and take what you want and leave the rest behind, whatever that resonates. My hope is that some of this candid conversation that we have here inspires a little bit. And here's what I would say. I went from performance, proving, over functioning, overmanaging. That was my motto. And literally, I was always like, I work best under stress. I work in cultures where there's always like this and this and this happening.

This is my job. I come from tech, right? 20 years in tech, yeah, it's fast pace. It goes. But the other side of me, I'll be 50 next year. So the 50 year old in me now goes, Kathy, yes, and here are some of the things that could have shifted things. One, aligning to this values that I have. One of the things about me, my tagline is the candid empath.

I say it like how it is, but I say it with empathy. But I want you to hear the reality, right? Like what is real in front of you and your values? Don't ever let go of that. But get clear with your values. How many people are clear with their values? They're not. We say that all the time, but I don't think we are.

Can you dive into that for just a second. Here's the part I say about values. There's fear-based values, and then there's purpose-based values. Fear-based values says, work hard. Get her done, get all the way to retirement, to pension. Kathy, you got to stay at the company until you get your pension because this is, oh, it's been drilled into us with our parents. That's fear-based.

Scarcity, right? I got to work hard or I won't have a roof. over my head. Okay. Purpose-based says this work, this type of work, like the work I'm doing today aligns with my strengths. It lights me up, Jody. Every day I get up, I'm like, this is why I do this.

One conversation, one intraction with a Jody, right? Those are purpose-based values. That gives you the natural dopamine hit. Like, honestly, you don't even have to scroll on social media when you're aligned to your values. Okay. Okay. I love that.

Right. It feels different in my body as you say it. And I mean for for in our community, I mean, just listen to that, you know, between like we got to go and we got to hurry and I was always impressed. You know, I want to impress my dad and I want to impress all the people that said I couldn't do it and like fucking watch me. And I have so many people to represent because I have a privilege that I better fucking use. Do you understand me? I'm a white straight woman. And there's so many people that like I'm lucky.

So I have to work hard for everybody who isn't. And when I get in that place, my shoulders do this. Yeah. You know? Yeah. When you say, what is your values in living your purpose using my skill? I think, okay, I'm showing my babies how to do it. I have some of this capacity to be able to articulate hard things and to help people

understand them. I can serve communities because I am in a place of privilege where my kids are healthy. They're looked after. I have a husband who supports this process. Can I give back to a community and make it a better place? Is that building a legacy? And that feels much more doable, right? Now I don't want to throw a punch people.

Okay, so I get it. Okay, so that's the values piece. Yeah. Then you're aligned. Then you don't have to be chasing of, I need motivation to get up in the morning. You're not aligned to who you are. You're not aligned to your strengths. One of my strengths, I use a VIA character strengths.

It's positive psychology. I'm a big fan of all things, positive psychology. Um, one of my strengths is social intelligence. Okay. And for me, reading the room, bringing community together, having conversations like this, if there was 10 of us, we'd be like riffing it like it's nobody's business. That for me is when was the last time I leaned into that strength? And when that strength, if I'm not activating that in a week, I almost like my light goes down.

I dim my light. So I'm constantly, whenever my light is dim, I'm like, ooh, I haven't been living. into my strengths. I had a client who came in, Jody, going, I need to write my second book. It wasn't about the freaking second book. She just needed to tap into her creativity a little bit more. Because when I asked her, I said, when was the last time you were creative? That's one of your top values. Oh gosh, it's been a few weeks. It's been a few months. What are you talking about creativity? She started finger painting, Walmart colors, all of that. She decided to do that as an exercise. She ended up selling painting that year. She's never painted in her life before, Jody.

And the second book never came because it was about what is really mattering here, right? So in toxic resiliency, when I talk about you're being resilient. You want to prove. You go self, I'll figure it out. We go in words, right? I need to prove to them because I have ADHD, because I have dyslexia, because I have chronic depression. I need to prove this wrong, right? But the minute I go, wait, but what does Kathy want?

Who's Kathy at her core? the narrative starts to change. That inner critic, it's like, huh, okay. And I tap into wonder and curiosity. Okay. What would happen if I just let go of two projects? I have parted in this seven years that I've been doing this work. I have started and parted from many projects.

Some of them were really good, Jody. And the people are like, oh, wait, you're stopping that one? I'm like, yeah, it's not lighting us up anymore. We're done with that one. It served its purpose. it's time to let it go. This letting go part, and sometimes when I talk to executives that are like,

I really want to resign, but I'm going to job hop again and again. I'm like, what if the next one you go eyes wide open and do it in a way that actually makes sense for you and not say yes out of desperation that, oh, here's another one that I'm going to prove to them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that. I love that.

Right, and I think that's where the toxicity comes in of proving to self. You have nothing to prove, honey. We're all at the road ends in, you know, six feet under for all of us. So like, come on now. Nobody gets out of here. Yeah. So you're talking about values. You're talking about wonder and curiosity.

Anything else that we need in that place? Community. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, community of don't. One of the things I always tell my community, don't do ADHD alone, man. Don't do mental health alone. Don't do life alone.

But also surround yourself. And you know, one of the things. I saw you speak. And in your theme of that talk, this is like seven, eight years ago, it was connection. And I was just like, I was like at the front room. I'm like, oh my God, who is this woman? I need to talk to her. Connection.

Actually, one of our experts in the ADHD community, Dr. Hallowell calls it vitamin C, vitamin connection. I like that. Right? And he says, when was the last time you took your vitamin C? And also, for those of us that are outliers, sometimes. Sometimes social settings can be intimidating. Sometimes they can be draining.

But you can also create your own communities. You can create your own communities. Or you can go in and say, you know what, this one's not for me. Moving on. Don't internalize it to, oh, I just don't, I'm an introvert. Don't make me go to do these things. They weren't your people. Move on.

Let go. Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, that just resonates so deeply. because I think for such a long time, particularly in the entrepreneurial space, or as you say, the loneliness increases as you get more into significant roles of leadership. We forget, and I'm amazed, you know, even a community of speakers that comes together. You know, it doesn't necessarily for a very long time, I would go to the community of psychologists. And oftentimes it's not even

in the people in your own space that has been traditionally yours, but getting into this place of like, okay, what is leaders? I don't care if you lead a company, you know, you're with Deloitte. or you would tell us or you're with, you know, in an agricultural space, fundamentally, as a principal of a high school, we all have the exact same things on our plate, right? Yep. And so I think creating that sense of likeness in community is one of the things that we think about often. I mean, when I talk about like sort of an optimal human operating system, we, we know how

human should operate at their best. That's what we're good at, right? And the noise of today has really thwarted that. So regulating other always, right? When I'm looking for a good leader, I'm looking, people always ask me, this does it come back to your childhood all the time? Yes. Yes, it does.

Do you understand who taught you how to regulate emotion? What is the story around that? And have you had corrective experiences if needed? Then who are your kin? Who are your community? Who is your group in this way? What are your rituals look like? What are your timing look like in your world?

And then how clear are we on our roles? Yeah. When those four things sort of come into alignment and they all go all over the place, nobody's perfect at this, right? But when you can kind of say to those things, where am I at with my emotional regulation, what am I doing to be able to serve? That I think becomes the purpose at all. And underlying that, what I hear you say is, you know, it's that values.

And you have access to your wonder, your curiosity and that building of community only when you're regulated. Yeah. Yeah. Now, here's the thing. I just want to twist it just a little bit. If my baseline, someone with ADHD, my baseline is disregulated already. From the minute I wake up, my brain is already like is in cahoots with itself.

So that is what I wake up to every day. So I've accepted that my baseline is dysregulated often. And for me, the way I deal with that is, here's another author that I love, Dr. Oh, my goodness. Anyways, the book is called How Emotions Are Made. Feldman Barrett, I forget her first name. I don't know why her first name is right now escaping me. But in Emotions or How Emotions Are Made, she talks about our body budget and understanding our body budget. And what that means is from the minute I wake up, let's say I had a good sleep.

I'm regulated. I'm recharged, let's say. My brain says, okay, we was good sleep. Let's go. I'm still feeling that this regulation, from the minute I wake up to dropping off sofa at school, getting myself ready, getting all of that ready. My body budget is already sitting probably at 80%. So I have like 80% left to give. And for me is what?

What's my body budget right now? How much do I have left right now? What do I need to replenish it? And what do I need to just be like, okay, this is it. We're 50% capacity. Let's say I had a meeting that was really shitty. And it took a lot out of me. That's like taking a lot of that withdrawal from our cognition,

emotional regulation, all that stuff. So again, I'm sitting with that of this is where I'm at right now. What's reasonable for me. Okay. And accepting that. And accepting that. And I think, I think, you're just making me think about this. I think we need to be clear about what we mean by emotional dysregulation.

Because I think there's a difference between being dysregulated and having a busy brain, having a brain that thinks about many, many things, right? So when I think about the neurophysiology behind being dysregulated, it means I'm not safe. It means I'm losing access to the best parts of myself, right? So if we live in a body where we've learned people around us aren't safe, where we've learned, you know, we have a trauma history in our body. That is very different than somebody who has ADHD or somebody that is on the spectrum, right? Which just means, you know, attention is sometimes difficult or staying, you know, connected to things that don't keep your attention long is a little bit more of a challenge.

I think when both of those things end up in the same body, then we see more significant problems, which is really the concept of intersectionality for me. Yeah. So if we think about, you know, marginalization in any capacity, when you're not functioning in the typical way that we would say is the most privilege in this world, like white, straight, able-bodied, you know, all of those privileges that would have suggested you've got the most regulation, when you have anything additionally on board and when they start to intersect, like you, you know, grew up in a system where trauma was the number one, you are fighting with cancer in your family system, you have alcoholic parents, you, like all of these things are coming to

the intersection. We're going to have to fight harder to stay regulated. Yeah. And so when you are neurodivergent, that is another thing that will say it's going to be another bit of a challenge. You can wake up in your body with ADHD and be very clear that you are regulated, right? Now there's thousands of things going on in your brain. Oh, God, I got to get this.

Uh-huh. Yeah. My body is safe. I know I can do this. And what I love the most about your work is then you start to talk about how you harness that as a superpower. That again, it's not seen as the detriment to you. But in fact, you know, when you talk about being hyperfocused, when you talk about, you know,

the benefits of what happens in neurodivergency sometimes is you have the superpower that many other people don't have. So do you rewrite that narrative for some of your clients sometimes? In the beginning, I actually, when I got diagnosed, I was like, oh, a bunch of really successful people had this. A bunch of really smart people have this. So does that mean I'm a genius and is a superpower? So for about six months, I was in that superpower, Jody. Okay.

Then what happened is reality kicked in of, okay, it is what it is, but who is Kathy at her core? So I don't consider ADHD as a superpower any longer. And I even wrote a article on it and created a bunch of noise about it because it's not a superpower. It is a part of who I am. However, it's how I describe me, how I have become friends with my brain. Yes.

That some days she is a freaking messy roommate in my brain that goes all over the freaking place and drives me nuts. And then some days, she is my creative genius that I come up with like these bursts of ideas and these amazing things. And I'm like, oh, my God. So she is me and I'm her and that's just, that's how it is. Because there are days that it really kicks my ass. And for not. And also I want to be really cautious of the spectrum of neurodivergence. There are some that truly can't even keep a full-time job. Yes. The most basic functions, right? And they have ADHD. And then, when they see the narrative of ADHD is a superpower, they're like, oh, well, then I'm really broken

because how come those ones over there can do it? They're using it and I'm not. Yes, great. And the other thing I'll say in this community that happens is this world was not built for us. So we need to build our own. And again, that's one of the other things that I don't agree with. Actually, some of these inventions that you see were made by neurodivergent folks. Okay. So this world was made by everybody, but it comes back to self and agency. Okay. And taking self-leadership. So what is my role in this?

One thing, Jody, when it comes to resilience that I think, when people say, oh, I need to disclose about my ADHD, I don't tell everybody. I'm like, okay, and what will that get you? What do you actually need? What are your unmet needs? And the minute I go into unmet needs or needs in general, they're like, huh, I didn't think about that. They know what they don't want.

But when I ask him, what do you actually want, Jody, it's like this pause of, I don't know. And for me, that's why I like to reflect on what are your unmet needs in a relationship, in a work environment, what do you put in up with that you haven't had a heart to heart with yourself and say, okay, do I want to stay in this toxic company or is it time to go? So what I hear you saying is that there's a lot of questions around whatever body you're in. being very clear about what provides you the optimal state of functioning. And all of us are in a body that functions given our own histories and our stories. It's that internal work that will pay off so significantly that I think when we do a little bit more around, what does it mean when I have these things? What does it mean because I'm in this body?

And I see, I mean, I think as you said, sort of that self-reflection piece of like, this is what I need in the morning. this is what happens when I do three days of putting an event together, I know I'm going to need to give myself two days to recover. That's built into the productivity. That is, that's what's going to make me the best. And I think however your brain functions, however it happens that, you know, you're either a young mom or you've got a new thing on your plate or there's a,

you know, one of your kids are sick or you're getting a divorce, whatever those things are, being very conscious that all of the experiences that we have at any given moment of our life will create our ability to be optimal. It will always come back to this idea of knowing yourself the best, being very clear about today my brain is a mess. Where's my grace in that process? Today I'm in flow. I need to protect that. Today I know that it's, you know, the first week back to school, I'm going to have three sick babies and a, you know, overwhelmed husband. and I am going to be on the road for whatever next week. Okay.

So so much of that is that self-reflection that I think, I think we are going to struggle with significantly in this next generation because of the noise. Yeah. Because of our inability, not inability, our inaccessibility to stillness. And I want to just talk. I want to end today a little bit about the discipline of connection. what it's going to take to access the best parts of ourselves from your perspective,

you know, if we're going to lead this world well, because we can't tell anybody how to do it. We're going to have to show them, right? And so what are we going to need, you know, from your perspective to sort of access the best parts of ourselves in this next generation? When you say that, the phrase that I used for the first three years in my own business was slow down to speed up. And it's not my phrase. It's out there. It's been out there. Yeah.

And when somebody told it to me first, it didn't resonate because I was like, I am going. Are you kidding me? I'm finally. I don't slow down. Yeah. I was like, this is my path. And I've never been so clear about this path. And don't slow me down.

Yeah. Right. And then I was like, and then COVID hit. And then I was like, oh, shit. I have to actually slow down because my baby was. little at that time and I couldn't like where am I going to put her where am I how am I going to do this and this I had two babies at the same time universe is so I know and that's slowing down to speed up was was my saving grace for the first three years and man was it ever hard Jody because there was times

I would see my peers doing other things that I'm like oh fuck I really wanted to do that or it or it looks like they're doing other things because you're looking on social media and you don't see them breaking down behind it right we're getting that highlight real yeah but now I'm seeing their burnout. I'm seeing their businesses fold. Literally. I am seeing it in black and white. It's happening on LinkedIn. I'm seeing businesses, coaches that came up and now they're like, I can't do this anymore. No shit. And so now when I train coaches, I say to them, I'm like, you're either in for the long haul of this because now you found your passion or you're going to go in fast and then crash. Actually, I was watching an interview with Bernie Brown. And she's like, she was actually, it was

beautiful interview. And I'm like, yes. She said they were, they, they, they, they, they, called her the godmother of self-help she's like i never wanted to be that i'm a therapist or i'm not a therapist rather she's like i just did this research and now she's she's pivoting to leadership right and saying these are the kind of people i want to work with so really being honest and true with what is it that you really want to do and who cares how long it takes you to get there truly who cares because when it happens jody you and i we met so long ago and then when i saw you you do this podcast. I'm like one day I will have a conversation with her. And I didn't know when it would be. And I just emailed Marty. I'm like, well, let's see what happens. And then I'm like,

you know what I mean? It's to just put it out there, but but stay on track. And to slow down sometimes means you may have two days of just sitting with your own thoughts, doing absolutely nothing, which can be hard for people with fast brains and for those that want to be there for others. Yeah. But it's the inwards of go back to self, go back to self and see what self wants. Yeah. And do it on purpose. Yes. Right?

There's a big difference between procrastination, putting it off, putting it off, and suggesting that's self-care. Yeah. Being very diligent about the fact that, yes, it's okay that I'm not working this week or it's okay that I'm going to push that project off because it's, I'll get to it. But I need to do this for me on purpose, right? And I remember, I mean, speaking of Brunei, I mean, I remember that's how she got to

some of her first books where she was watching Downton Abbey for months on end. And I remember thinking, you know, as a very productive writer, like, oh my God, that's the death of me. I have a book proposal half done. And it was supposed to be in at the end of August. This was the dateline I gave myself to Lane. And this week I'm home with the kids.

They're back to school. There's hockey tryouts. There's volleyball tryouts. There's all the shit that's happening. And I'm supposed to be done it. And I'm supposed to be done it next week. I'm supposed to be done it the week after. And I'm like, on purpose.

Mm-hmm. this is the week I got a refuel and next week might even be the week we got a refuel and Marty said to me yesterday do you know we don't have to write another book did you know that and I was like I love her fuck me yeah exactly what do you but what does that mean what are the the people need another book and then I'm like no no no like I it won't be what I want it to be if I'm not if I'm doing it for anybody other than me and in a place where it needs to come from those values And you know, I call that marination versus procrastination. Ooh, I love that.

Right? Like in the back of your mind, you're processing this. You're thinking it through. You're doing something with it. There's no pant of paper, but you're marinating over it. I want to write a book too, Jody. But right now it's like, is it about ADHD? Is it about leadership?

I don't know. I keep going back and forth. But it needs to. And then when it comes, it comes from your essence. Look out. Yeah. Right? Look out.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's the part is not to get caught up in this hustle culture, comparison culture. I don't have Instagram or TikTok. I never installed Inton talk, but I don't have Instagram on my phone. I don't need it. Why? Why?

Why? It's on my desktop. I'll look at it from time to time and that's it. Yeah, but good for you. And I think that's the discipline of connection, right? Where it's like we can still do good work. I mean, I mean, again, the fundamental basics for me these days is like, how often are you charging your phone outside your room in the run of a week?

And it's not all or nothing because you're you'll crash out. And that's not what I need you to do. Right. This isn't, this isn't all or nothing. But there is a discipline that's going to have to happen, I think, in our generation of leadership if we want to protect our most valuable asset, which is our regulation. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's going to take a little bit of work. It's going to take, you know, just as we say relationships take work. It's the hardest thing to do. It's the easiest thing to forego. It is, I think, the relationship. with self around the discipline of connection is going to be, again, the greatest challenge of the next generation because it's so sexy not to. And the system is designed to keep you disconnected because it is so lucrative to have us ordering online and investing in Netflix online and

doing all those kind of things, which make us feel good and the dopamine is readily available and all of those things, right? And so just I think more knowledge and conversation around the fact that that at the fundamental level, that's why it's there. It does not serve us well in the long term, right? Do you, will you partake? Yes, ma'am. Like, full permission, but my wish for you, my hope for you as a leader, as, you know, anybody who has lots on their plate, which is p.S. everybody, but some way more than others these days,

is that we look after you first so that you get the most out of this life, that you get the most joy, that your body is relaxed when it could be, can be, should be. so that you don't miss the little things. The reason we're here, the joy, the most vulnerable emotion is joy. 100%. Amen. Amen. We knew this is going to be good, Kathy.

We knew. We know. You are friggin' brilliant, girl. You're frigging brilliant. Thank you. Yes, everything that you need about Kathy's in the show notes. I'm going to link some of those books that she talked about. And in the meantime, I'll show you where to find her.

Thanks for this. I appreciate it. And I know our community does too. Thank you. All right, everybody. Thank you so much. I love it. other, take care of yourself more than anything. And I'll meet you right back here next time.

You know, the more we do this, people ask, why do you have to do the acknowledgement and every episode? I got to tell you, I've never been more grateful for being able to raise my babies on the land where so much sacrifice was made. And I think what's really critical in this process is that the ask is just that we don't forget. So the importance of saying these words at the beginning of every episode will always be of utmost important to me and this team. So everything that we created here today for you happened on Treaty 7 land, which is now known as the center part of the province of Alberta. It is home of the Blackfoot Confederacy, which is made up of the Siksika, the Kainai, the Pekina, the Titina First Nation, the Stony-Nakota First Nation, and the

Métis Nation Region 3. Our job, our job as humans, is to simply acknowledge each other. That's how we do better, be better, and stay connected to the good. The Unloney podcast is produced by three incredible humans, Brian Siever, Taylor McGilvery, and Jeremy Saunders, all of Snack Lab productions. Our executive producer, my favorite human on this planet, is Marty Pillar. Soundtracks were created by Donovan Morgan, Unloney branded artwork created by Elliot Cuss, Our big PR shooters are Desvino and Barry Cohen. Our digital marketing manager is the amazing Shane A Haddon.

Our 007 secret agent from the Talent Bureau is Jeff Lowness. And emotional support is provided by Asher Grant, Evan Grant, and Olivia Grant. Go live! I am a registered clinical psychologist in Alberta, Canada. the content created and produced in this show is not intended as specific therapeutic advice. The intention of this podcast is to provide information, resources, education, and the one thing I think we all need the most, a safe place to land in this lonely world. We're all so glad you're here.