Unlonely with Dr. Jody Carrington - Everyone Comes from Somewhere but not Everyone Knows Where: Jesse Lipscombe

Episode Date: May 9, 2024

An actor, former athlete, activist and entrepreneur, Jesse is ready to take on any challenge (or dream) and make it happen.The Alberta native began his acting career at the age of 14, starring in the film Children of the Dust alongside legendary actor Sidney Poitier. However, Jesse put his acting career on hold at age 18 when he accepted a full athletic scholarship at the prestigious Moorhouse College in Atlanta. There, he thrived as a breakout track star.Now, between his many ventures, Jesse continues to not only act but also produce many award-winning films and television productions (It’s Not My Fault, I Don’t Care Anyway, Tiny Plastic Men). You may also have seen Jesse in Netflix’s hit show, Black Summer.Outside of the arts, Jesse invests in various businesses and runs a consultancy inspired by the #MakeItAwkward campaign he launched (with his wife, Julia) in 2016 to combat racism, misogyny, homophobia and hatred. He works with organizations and leaders to help them understand and address racism. In 2023, Jesse published his debut novel, Jars, a coming-of-age story about acceptance, self-discovery and the adventures of being a young person struggling to find their place.In 2017, Jesse was the recipient of the Obsidian Award for Top Business Leader in Western Canada. That year, he was also named the Community Man of the Year by Diversity Magazine.Through it all, Jesse makes it his top priority to give back to his community. Jesse works with various annual charity fundraisers and partnerships in his home base of Edmonton.This week Dr. Jody and Jesse chat all about Jesse's life, where he came from and also why he doesn't actually know where that is, his amazing family and where his career has taken him. This episode will make you think and leave you inspired.Follow Jessie:Instagram Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at one you need, whenever you need it. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. At the beginning of every episode, there will always be time for an acknowledgement. You know, the more we do this, people ask, why do you have to do the acknowledgement in every episode? I got to tell you, I've never been more grateful for being able to raise my babies on a land where so much

sacrifice was made. And I think what's really critical in this process is that the ask is just that we don't forget. So the importance of saying these words at the beginning of every episode will always be of utmost importance to me and this team. So everything that we created here today for you happened on Treaty 7 land, which is now known as the center part of the province of Alberta. It is home of the Blackfoot Confederacy, which is made up of the Siksika, the Kainai, the Pekinie, the Tatina First Nation, the Stony Nakota First Nation, and the Métis Nation Region 3. Our job, our job as humans, is to simply acknowledge each other. That's how we do better, be better, and stay connected to the good. oh my fellow humans do i got a good one for you today? I've been waiting a long time actually to get this incredible human on the other side of this microphone. And I'm going to tell you a little bit about him before we jump in. Okay. I met this guy a number of years ago and I got to

tell you, he single-handedly was the impetus for me to be better and do better. I would say much of my understanding around my privilege and how I show up in this world was performative at best until I met this human who challenged me on many, many things that I think about and talk about. And I just fell in love with him. He's, he's a fellow Canadian, in fact, an Edmontonian, but his, I think sometimes people don't understand how amazing you are. So I'm going to just start off with this part. Okay. And then we're going to jump right in. So he's an actor, which, um, I didn't know about when

we first met, but like, I got to tell you about all the things that he's doing these days. He's a former athlete, which I really liked this title in his bio because I was like, I still kind of think you are an athlete. But anyway, former big shooter athlete, activist, entrepreneur. Jesse is ready to take on any challenge. This guy's a relentless pursuit of dreaming big and just making shit happen. Born and raised in Alberta, his acting career started at the age of 14 when he starred in the film Children of the Dust alongside the legendary actor Sidney Poitier. Now, Jesse did put his acting career on hold at the age of 18 when he accepted a full athletic scholarship at the prestigious Morehouse College in Atlanta. There, he was a breakout track star. Now, between his many ventures,

Jesse continues to not only act, but also produce many award-winning films and television productions. Things like It's Not My Fault, I Don't Care Anyway, Tiny Plastic Men. You may also have seen Jesse in Netflix hit show Black Summer, which I still have nightmares about because I was desperately connected to every single event in that show. And it's not, oh my God. Outside of the arts, Jesse invests, he's invested in various businesses and runs a consultancy inspired by the Make It Awkward campaign. He launched with his wife, Julia, in 2016 to combat racism, misogyny, homophobia, and hatred. He works with organizations and leaders. That's where we've shared the stage many times together to kind of help them understand and address racism that is so

prominent in, I mean, every moment of every day. In 2023, Jesse published his debut novel, Jars, which sits on our bookshelf. Our babies have read a coming of age story about acceptance, self-discovery, and the adventures of being a young person struggling to find their place. Now, what I think is interesting, Jesse now has another book coming out, which we're going to talk about today, coming out in August of 2024. And I think even with all of these things going on, oh, and like, we're going to talk today about how he's producing series and he's acting in two different ones and all the things, but Jesse makes it his top priority to give back to his community. And I think that was the biggest, I think, thing that impressed me the most about you is the phenomenal commitment you have to stepping in when things are unjust. In fact, I think that's one of the first things that sort of made you prominent in the work that you do, being caught on video, attempting to have a conversation with somebody who had made a racial slur.

And I just got to tell you, this wild rollercoaster of a ride. He's got the most phenomenal parents. His mother is an avid follower, avid commenter on all of my platforms. And I just, I'm in love with his family, the system. You have incredible human children who are in and of their own rights doing amazing things. I get to watch them do great things. And I just need you to meet this guy. So settle in today. We're going to have, we don't know where this conversation is going to go, which usually happens when we sit down together. So buckle up. And I would like you to meet the most incredible Jesse Lipscomb. And Jesse, I start every episode like this. The big difference between empathy and judgment often lies in knowing somebody's story, right? Context is the prerequisite for empathy.

So the name of the game around here is trying to figure out where we all come from. So you tell me, Mr. Jesse Lipscomb, where do you come from? Where do I come from? It was a fateful night from 44 years ago. Monica and Richard looked into each other's eyes and said, Hey, she said, Hey, they're like just a knowing. And then they did what, what married people do. Nine months later, I, uh, emerged from my mother's womb. Wow. Yeah. Nice. So like a lot of us, a womb start. A womb. Yes. Yeah. Like I would say most of us. Yeah. Nice. So like a lot of us, a womb start. A womb. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Like I would say most of us. Yeah. Yeah. I would say I would say most of us. Yes. I'm sure there are some Petri babies because it's 2024, you know. Oh, everywhere. Everywhere. Yeah. But yeah, so I emerged from there. But the story, I think the story goes, where did I come from? I love that that's the name of your podcast because it's an answer that I'm still searching for. I wish I knew, Jody, because the fact of the matter is the transatlantic slave trade took a lot of those answers away from me with a lot of other individuals that, you know, call themselves African-American or African-Canadian. But my

story and my last name, even Lipscomb in itself, comes from two brothers from Sussex, Germany, Ned and Ted Lipscomb, who moved over to the United States. Both of them had plantations, one in Texas, one in North Carolina, and they bought and owned people. And as a result, they put their last name on them and erased their entire history and their language and whatever religion and cultures and made it impossible to find out. So for, you know, Emancipation Proclamation and the 400 years of slavery, I don't have that answer. But I do have another answer that is very important to me, which is, you know, I'm a fourth generation Canadian. My dad's side comes from a wonderful community called Amber Valley, which was a very early black settlement when, you know, the freed people were looking for a place to find

their own. And they came up north and settled in Amber Valley. Not too many families settled there because it's funny, there was a thing in the newspaper that was advertising free and cheap land. If you can farm it, you can have it. And as it turned out, a bunch of black families, about 20 black families came up. And then in the Edmonton Journal, it said, front page, no more black spots in Alberta. Because they didn't expect black people to come up here and take that. So they cut it off. And so that was basically the foundation of Amber Valley. And that's where my dad was born.

And so for me, where I come from, that's a big chunk of it. And also being Canadian is a big chunk of it, which is another reason why I kind of fight for home and for people to feel safe and feel seen in their home and be able to call Canada home, call Turtle Island home. It's important that I do what I can to make sure people can say that without having to justify it because of the shade of their skin. Right.

So everyone comes from somewhere, you're right, but not everyone knows where. Right. Oh, I love that. Brilliant. And so tell me a little bit about this family that settled in Amber Valley and eventually make their way to Edmonton. Tell me about parents, siblings. Yeah, man. It's, you know, I am super privileged. My family's so cool. It's so cool. It's so cool to be a fan in your own family. Shouldn't we all? Shouldn't we all? Shouldn't we all? So like on my dad's side, the Amber Valley side, you know,

like Amber valley was famous in itself but also like my great great auntie her name is bessie coleman first black woman to fly an airplane uh black half black half indigenous but that was my great great auntie and then um in amber valley there was a famous baseball team and they obviously it was an all black team they weren't allowed to play in the regular leagues but they became famous because of how good they were, which is amazing. And one of the players, Ozzy Lipscomb, is my nephew's name, is Ozzy, who he's named after. Now, some of you might have heard, if you're a hockey follower,

Ozzy McIntyre. He's a UH, what is it? What is it? I don't know what it's called. I'm so bad at hockey. U15. AAA U15. Yeah, he's going into the WHL draft. Real coming up soon.

You know, slated to go number one. It's really fun. I'm a fan of my nephews. I'm a fan of my great-great aunties. My dad is a phenomenal artist, trained overseas, you know, in Paris and all the different places. His stuff is juried in art galleries. And then on my mom's side, my grandfather, Rolly Miles, CFO of Hall of Fame, you know, three Grey Cup winner.

My uncle, Brett, who just passed, phenomenal jazz musician, played with Miles Davis, Taylor Dane, Michael Jackson. My cousin, Rolly Pemberton, who's got a new album coming out right now called Rollercoaster, won the Polaris Prize. He was the youngest poet laureate in Alberta. My mom is a beautiful artist herself. It's just like super fun to just look around and see Black excellence, excellence in general, just around and support from family. It is not lost on me that I have an amazing support system

and that has helped me just be able to believe, uh, that anything's possible. Um, so yeah, where I come from, forget a place of land. I come from a land of love and support and belief that dreams can happen if you work your ass off. Oh, I guess you do come on and talk about working your ass off., I, I don't know. I mean, people say this to me often, how do you do it? You know, you're busy all the time. You're like, I don't understand life any other way. And so it's not, I'm not doing it because I have to, I'm doing it because I love it. Which is also, you know, a very privileged thing to say, but I think I would do more of it. And this is the interesting thing about when you love it, right, is that you want to do more of it. And when I think about the projects that you're producing, the things that you're a part of, I can't wait to talk to you because we're so interested in stepping into the documentary space and speaking about relationship and connection and privilege in that space. And, um, you know, your work on screen is something that I, like, I've never

known an actor in my, like for real, like a real life one. And when I watch the skill it takes to transform, I don't even know if that's the word who you are into somebody else's world or a character's potential, how is that? Like, Tell me what that's like and how has that helped you or hindered you in trying to understand humans? Because you have this relentless pursuit to understand humans, to connect to humans, to make humans better. That's fair to say about you, right? I don't know that I've ever met anybody more passionate in this regard. That's awesome, Jodi. Really?

Yeah. I'll tell you, you know, that's been probably like a through line from day one. I love people. I love connecting with people. I love, and like an understanding myself so I can understand people. Like even when I went to school, like it was a psychology neuro bio, a double major. Cause I was like so passionate with the brain. Like how does it work in theory? How does it work in science? And then as an athlete, figuring out how your own body can control your own thoughts, can control what you're doing on any given day, same day, two different results because of a thought. So all of this stuff and just watching how different people walk through the world, it's always been something I've been fascinated with.

But as an actor, the neat thing too, first off, everyone has a different process, right? And that's the beauty of it there's not like this is how you act but for me you know it's a pursuit of truth so it's not acting it's not fake right so i'm i'm finding truth in in imaginary worlds so the world's imaginary but what's happening is real um and when you do that you kind of get an opportunity to live for a minute uh in another truth right so it's not a pretend thing and so when you do that, you kind of get an opportunity to live for a minute in another truth. Right. So it's not a pretend thing. And so when you come out of it, you're changed no matter what it is.

It could be a cop. It could be a comedy. It could be a horror. You could be the quote unquote good guy or bad guy because they don't exist when you're the actor. You're always the hero because you're doing things from a place of truth. But when you step out of it every time I'm changed but every time I have more empathy for more people and different people because for a minute I got to be the hero in a story that's not my own and live a truth that wasn't necessarily my own and then a little bit of it stays with you all the time and that's for good and for bad there's been some roles where I was a little bit of an asshole while I was in it

because my character was just a little bit of a jerk. And I didn't really realize it until I stepped out of it. I was like, oh, sorry about that last month. I was kind of a lot to deal with. But for the most part, it's been very positive. And it's such a cool job just to be able to do that. The job is be open, be vulnerable, connect with people that you don't know.

So especially film, theater is a little better in the sense that we have time. We get to know each other. We have like months together, but film and television, I don't know you, Jodi. Today we're on set and we've been in love. We lost our child and we have a funeral and then like in that day. So we have to find, you have to be so open and trusting for that to work. but what a cool thing to be able to bring into the real world right right right and and that like emotions are emotions and that like you can always relate in some capacity right what do i how do i do that what's your favorite role to date oh wow yeah i see i think i think it would be it would be the one that you still

have nightmares about. Really? Black Summer? Yeah. Black Summer. Is it still on Netflix? Yeah. It's still on Netflix. Okay. Listen, right now I want you to go find Black Summer, watch it and you tell me whether you have nightmares or not. It is so well done. And just like, I don't know if I like,

if the bar was low in my mind, because like, I know you, you're a real life person. You're like, yeah, I have this series on Netflix. And I was like, yeah, I bet you do. And then I, I don't know why I was so skeptical. I was like, because you were hosting an event with me, like at the Creative Hive in Edmonton. Like, how can you be on Netflix? I'm pretty sure you are. And so then when I watched it, I was like, oh my God, look at this guy.

And when you were in the, like, they were getting you and you were locking and they were trying to eat you and I was like no like yeah I mean no spoilers but you know didn't I wreck some like the entire second season at some point remember yeah what did you do did you I forgot it was like they haven't announced the second season and I said it live. I was like, are you excited about the second season? You're like, cut. I like moments ago. I said, this is something we can't say. We have an NDA with Netflix. So don't say it. Gotcha. Jess. So are you excited for season two? I'm trying to still work in the business.

Oh, I remember that was a very bad day that's funny uh yeah no but i think i think that that role was not necessarily just because of the it was very cool to do it was really cool to do so it was so much choreography and it was such a even though it's a zombie apocalypse show it was such a beautiful thing to shoot it was very much like a huge dance routine and your cameraman is like another character because they have to run with you and the amount of choreography it takes was so cool. But my favorite part was I got to name my own character. So I got to name my character and I named him Mance. And I named him Mance, which goes back to what we were talking about. Everyone comes from somewhere. As I've done my research and trying to find out where I came from, I came across a man named Mance Lipscomb. He was

a blues singer in the South. and i'm like i wonder if we're related i wasn't sure and i did some more research don't know if we are but probably came from one of the two ned or ted's plantations but his name wasn't man's when he was born i forget what his original name was but he changed his name uh in honor of the emancipation proclamation so he calls himself man's lipscomb and uh i heard this quote in college that was you you know, a person, every person dies twice when they take their last breath. And the last time you mentioned their name. And so I'm like, I want to keep Mance alive somehow. And I got the opportunity to name my character after him. And then a lot of the backstory was just this idea. I pretended the zombies were like like Klansmen and overseers. And so for me, my backstory was, I was trying, I was like,

kind of living in the late 1800s trying to find my way. So yeah, it was great. It was just, it was, it was neat. I got to have a lot of agency in that character's creation. So that was special. Amazing. And now is there a season three that you can talk about? You know, there isn't, there isn't, you know what though? Okay. I can talk. You know what, though? Okay. I can talk. I think I'm out of contract stuff now, so I can even tell you rumors and things. So no, no season three. But I just heard, I spoke to one of the other actors about why there isn't a season three. And apparently there was some, like, misappropriation of funds by one of the higher-ups. And this show was on their slate at Netflix.

And all the shows that this person had just got canceled as a result of that, had nothing to do with the show's success at all. Like the show was doing great. And that's the reason why. So just so much collateral damage because of someone's actions. Now this is all hearsay, obviously,

but from the right hearsay, it sounds pretty say. It sounds pretty say-say. It sounds pretty say-say. All right. So I have some questions about this because I'm often amazed at child actors and I've taken a deep dive as a psychologist, not a deep dive. That's a bit aggressive,

but you know, I read Brittany's book. Uh, I'm really interested in the Nickelodeon crew of people who, you know, forcing babies, not babies, what babies into situations, um, sexualizing them, getting them in positions where, you know, the expectation of their bodies is not where their prefrontal cortex is ready. Um, and seeing, you know, nothing but, you know, opportunities. And even with the best sense, you know, opportunities, dollar signs, all of those kinds of things. What, what would you say? I mean, I can imagine some of this has been difficult as you navigate. So we look at your success in this moment, but I wonder about starting in a very, um, I think industry, and I'm going to make this up because of course, I don't know anything about this.

I went to acting school one time called artstreck when I was 16 years old and I was basically a superstar. I don't know why I didn't pursue it. But anyway, when I, that's my, that's the end of it for me. Okay. That's where it doesn't have to be. I know I'm, I'm open to any roles that you may be, but also I, I'm interested in your experience, Jesse, because you are, you know, I can't imagine what that would have been like in so many ways. And so, so tell me, put that into context for me about being this, this baby in this sense where

I would imagine so many people expected things of you that you weren't ready for. Yeah. I think, I mean, I started a little later than I think, uh, like I was 14, still, still baby, but, but you know, um, you know, it wasn't like six, seven. And I say that because Indy though, my youngest son, we have the same agent. So he's already an actor doing gigs. So like, this is all, this is top of mind for me, of course. Yeah. But when I started the amount of naivete I had, it was almost great. And same with my, like everybody,

nobody was in film and TV really right yet in my family so you know i remember my first show but i did it with sydney boyer and we you remember entertainment tonight and extra uh yeah yeah right so i was on entertainment tonight and extra and had all these interviews i was even in those like national inquirer tabloids they had things like you know the next denzel it was like big stuff after that show. Cause that show got nominated for an Emmy obviously downhill since then, but, but at the time it was looking real good. Right. And I remember I did an interview with extra and they, I was on a swing and they're like, so what's it like to be, you know,

an actor with Sidney Poitier with all this attention. And I remember, I'm like, it's the cringest answer ever. I was like, man, acting is so easy. You like basically do nothing at all. And they just pay you a lot of money. I'm like, man, acting is so easy. You like basically do nothing at all. And they pay you a lot of money. I'm like, wow, Jesse. And, you know, obviously I didn't know any better at the time because I didn't, I didn't train. I didn't, I got lucky. I found out the truth later on and I really tried to be an actor. And every time it was a no, a hundred times, 200 times and found out, yeah, you got to train for this thing. You got lucky kid,

but if you really want to do it, you're gonna have to put in some work. But I would say like the expectations, um, more of them were on, like, I lived in a high expectation world. So for me, like doing well and winning was, was a part of the plan. Like I, I didn't get to go to university unless I had a full scholarship. That was a clear understanding in grade five. So like my preparation for that started then. And it wasn't like, I hope I do. It was just a part of, I have to brush my teeth, I have to go to school and I'm getting a full ride. And here's all of the things I have to do. I have to jump this high. I have to

have these grades. So that was just, it was just a plan. Like plans are great. They actually, it's funny how they work, right? You plan something and do the steps oftentimes things work out um so expectations from the external world i don't think could have been higher than the ones i had for myself yeah um which was good and bad right like i i talked about this in my book a little bit i i used to win out of fear not because i loved it like i was i was I was scared to lose because of the expectations I had on myself that other people had on me. And I'd look around and see other people, maybe with, with less support, less family, less privilege, do better. And so, and I say better in quotes, whatever that means. So I felt like I was winning, but I didn't get to enjoy any wins. It

was like, what's next? What's next? What's next? And it wasn't until I switched that later on to like running towards love, did everything actually become amazing, which wasn't binary. It wasn't about wins and losses that the bumper sticker of the journey became a lot more realer and more enjoyable and felt better. But yeah, I didn't, I didn't get a lot of the, I the I'm also a man right so it is a different world also like the you know being over sexualized um it's funny and now I'm talking about it and I'm remembering things so maybe a little bit I'm like my first kiss was from Elle Macpherson when I was 15 I'm pretty sure Elle Macpherson was older than she should have been kissing me on a set but like i thought it was cool so like you know what i mean like but there's so like things that were okay on set aren't okay on set anymore but not to the point of some of these horror

stories that have occurred that we've read about okay okay yeah and what is the sorry l i mean it was fine i don't know l l you were so great. Thank you for your service. The holidays are coming, and nobody wants to deal with seasonal bugs making their way through the family. That's where Maple comes in. No more scrambling for open clinics during holiday festivities. One membership covers the whole family, making it a gift that keeps on giving this season. And with over a million five-star reviews, Canadians are loving it.

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Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. So now in this space, so, you know, in the intro, I talked a little bit about your work. This is where I see you shine. It also is where I've seen it become so heavy on your shoulders in this place of representing, advocating for marginalized peoples and your anti-racism work. Tell me a little bit about that. You speak a lot in schools.

We have the same agent. We have crossed over. You just have this very easy way of helping people understand, which shouldn't be your job, but I just, I am in awe of you every time I watch you navigate the stupidity of people, the ignorance of people, the, at the same time, the beautiful attempts of people to learn and unlearn things they never even knew they had to tell me a little bit about that work and yeah yeah i think it's funny you say that too i think everything you said i agree with but i also think it's because i see the same thing in myself across the board so first off i think i'm a pretty decent dude. Uh, and, and I, I feel like love is the major ingredient that exists in me, but I also see myself making those same mistakes. Uh, I've made them, um, and have been able to learn and grow and feel better on the other side

of it. So you mean like, like biases, um, 100% transgressions, unconscious bias, microaggressions, just assumptions or things I thought were away and found out they weren't. And going through the same because we're so much more similar than we're different. Right. So like when in the past, in my early days of learning, I'd hear something. Someone would tell me, call it a call in. But back then, a full on call out. And I would I would get defensive, because that wasn't what I intended to do. You know, and then and then later on, realizing how useless my intent is, and how important impact is just living in an impact driven life, then I'm like, Okay, well, I guess I can take myself out of that. It wasn't actually about me. I, I intended to do

something, but the whole intention was to positively impact someone. And I didn't. So the impact is all that matters. And I started to be able to remove myself from it. And then when you do that, then we can all have these same conversations. It's not like I'm soapboxing. Like here's one GPS map coordinate to get to this place where I know I'm going to make some more mistakes moving forward. And I'm going to learn collectively with you.

But here's what I picked up along the way. No need for you to go through all of it. Here's all my nuggets. You want some nuggets? But share them with people. And we had some real conversations with a starting point of realizing that all of us are messing up everywhere. And that's fine.

It's just not fine to know you're messing up and do nothing about it. It's like a gift to find out what it is, because I imagine the vast majority of people don't want to hurt other people. The vast majority of people end up hurting people because of areas of ignorance, of insecurity, of not feeling safe. And so if we can make people feel a little bit more safe and a little bit more secure, then they're open to learn a little bit more and in turn hurt people less. So it's kind of like just a big old coach talk in front of thousands of people.

And, you know, I'm learning too. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the point. I mean, some of the finest teachers we've had, Cadmus DeLorn, the youngest indigenous chief in Canada on the podcast. We've had people, I get to speak to Jam Gamble this afternoon, so many people who are in their own ways done such incredible healing to be in a position to hold space for other people trying to do their own work. Some of which not even aware that we need to do that work, right? Which I think is sort of where privilege lies for me in this place of, you know, you don't know what you don't know. And our intentions are often good. The perceptions are often, you know, then become the issue, right? And so how do we marry the two of those? And how do we

have a safe enough relationship to be able to say, just a second, you know, what did you mean by that? Or did you know the meaning of that phrase, or did you understand you, you created a game that I think, and I, yeah, that I love we've played with our kids, you know, can you tell me a little bit about that? Because I think it is, it is such a safe place to start to have conversations that just make you go, holy shit. I didn't realize what that meant. A hundred percent. Yeah. And that's funny. We made, so we made the game as a response to hearing the same questions over and over.

Right. What about, you know, somebody would say this and I say, uh, by the way, here's why you shouldn't say that. Or what do we do in this scenario? Those are like the two things. And then, uh, we're like, I'm a, I don't want to say the same thing a hundred times. I'm like, how can we teach this? Cause at the time it's like, I either, I do a speech, I put a video up or I write something on social media. Like there's got to be a different way to get people involved and to feel safe to learn. And so the idea of like gamifying activism, you know, Chelsea and I were talking about that and decided let's make let's make a game. So we made a game that's like cards against humanity but the idea is the situations in this game are often you know

whether they're racist situations or homophobic situations any kind of discriminatory situation you can think of is probably in there and then you have response cards and anybody can play them and some of the response cards are funny and okay to say some of them are fully problematic but are things that are said all the time um and some of them are just you know this is how you're supposed to answer that question uh the cool part is the only way to win the game is to actually learn why certain phrases are problematic and or harmful to marginalized individuals and so you know you'll see something that says not that funny and you say why it is and then you get a point. The whole idea is nobody has to put their foot in their mouth

because the cards are the foot in the mouth. So you get to learn without any finger pointing. Although we do have timeout cards because always there's like an argument or two that happens. And so instead of the game pausing, every player gets a timeout card. They play it. They get five minutes to vent and then shut up. Let's keep playing.

So it keeps the game moving, but it gives you a chance to talk about it um yeah it's been great for like schools and businesses and just places like what a fun great icebreaker um and even if you don't agree with every card because truly things we made the game a few years ago there's probably some things in there that need to change it opens up the table really easy just to start those conversations yeah um i even like just reading through the cards. I learned so much making the game. I thought I was good to go. And I'm like, whoa, what? I say that every day. I know. I know. And I think it's just a call to an invitation. And who I love, I mean, I enjoyed it most with our kids because they knew so much more than I did. And I really love that. They're like, yeah, mom, didn't you know that? You're like, you don't. Okay. That's what that means

when you say that. And that's, oh, holy shit. Okay. So it's called, it's not that funny. I'm going to, I'll take it in the show notes. So you can check it out if you want to, but I just, I'm so impressed with that work. What, what next for you, Jesse, with all of those things? I mean, I know your, your children are now growing up, doing great things in these acting. I know you got like sports people in this mix. You're, you're now in Vancouver. You come back to Edmonton quite a bit. Is that true? Right now, half and half. Well, I call it half and half. That was the plan on paper. But it's, you know, it's half and half if I'm not traveling to speak or doing a film

or a show or a musical or whatever. But yeah, I have a place in Edmonton and a place in Vancouver. And I go back and forth, I take flair, like it's a bus. And yeah, that's, that's my world. But, you know, like, it's what's next is always the question, always, always something I'm thinking of. Just to, I want to make sure that I, with whatever platform that I'm using it in a way that I can go look in the mirror at night and be like, Jesse, I'm proud of you. I love you. I want to make sure I can do that every night. So it's like a, it's a real thought of what's next all the time, not just for me to have fun and play. Cause it goes back. It's just this cyclic world if i i feel the best when i know that i'm using whatever i have not just for myself but for other folks it's

literally my favorite thing in the world is watch people win um it's so cool i love seeing when people just find out how amazing they are and then they just do it something amazing and they're like look and then someone else sees it. It's just contagious. Anyways. So what's next? I love it. I love it. I love it. Yeah.

A lot more of the same. But also, I, you know, I'm always trying to pay attention to the zeitgeist and make sure I am plugged in and able to learn and offer some more things. I mean, you and I both have awesome platforms that we get to use in the ways that ideally are beneficial to lots. So most of what's next is me, A, following the dopamine. That's number one. I want to make sure I'm excited about what I'm doing and being open and available to pivoting

and changing how messages are delivered. But the cool part is if you ask me, people are like, what would you do if you had all the money in the world and everything? Nothing would be different. Nothing. I'd still be painting. I'd still be singing. I'd still be writing. I'd still be speaking.

I'd still be acting. And I'd still be talking to you, one of my favorite human beings in the world to talk to. Nothing would change. I would just do more of it. So that kind of gives me a feeling that I'm on the right path. Okay. So a couple of things that you said in there that I really loved, right? That I look myself in the mirror. Because do you know that the vast majority of humans don't ever look themselves in the mirror? They look about and around at the critical pieces of themselves, but rarely do many of us,

few of us make eye contact with ourselves. And to be able to do that. And I mean, think about this today, when you, wherever you are, I want you to go home and make eye contact with yourself in the mirror. And I loved that image of you just saying, I'm proud of you and I love you. Because you're able to say that, oh Jesus, because I don't do it. Like, I think that's even the thing, right? Like, I'm proud of you and I love you. And also like, you should pluck your eyebrows and if you could lose your double chin and like, also you're kind of a shitty mom. And like, we always like, there's all those things that come after, like, is it hard for you too? Yeah, Joe, that's exactly

it though. Because as soon as you say, uh, I'm proud of you, your mind wants to jump in. Yeah. But what about this? You shouldn't be because of this. You could, shouldn't be because of that. Um, and that's, that happens all the time, but, but also it's, it is not lying to you. Right. So like there's things in there like i say i'm proud of myself as a check-in to see how did i do today it's just my report card today because even if i forgot as soon as i say that it instantly reminds me but every once in a while i get a day like you should be okay jesse okay like that is worth it but i I'll tell you, this whole practice actually came from track and field. So when I was doing track, I hated my body.

I hated it. I took all of the mirrors out of my house. I couldn't look at myself in a mirror. There was articles in a newspaper that would be like, lips comb too fat to jump. Linebacker lips comb. My coaches. So I was one of the heaviest Thai jumpers in the world.

So I was good. I was six in the world at one time and and like probably eight percent body fat then uh so fine i look at pictures now i'm like eat what is wrong with you but didn't matter because what other people told me about me it really did a number on me so every day i was on the scale all we talked about was how do we get my weight down now? Technically on paper, it makes sense. I'm lighter and as strong, I can jump higher. So everybody was very like binary robotic, but not paying attention to the emotional mental health sides of that at all. And so for me, I hated my body and I don't use the word hate very often. Um, and so it took, I didn't take my shirt off when I'd go to beaches. It was so weird. Like I was, I was ripped and skinny, but I was the biggest high jumper.

So it was all relative, right? But after, and I mentioned that before, that idea of running from fear and running towards love. So 2008, I believe, I had a stroke. It was a TIA, a trans ischemic attack. But at the time, we didn't know what it was. So my track career,'s when it I retired from sport uh and it was like the best gift ever um because then like the the drama kid the artist I was a job I was an artist trapped in a jock's body but I got to like go and run towards what

I love without any other expectations and that feeling I remember it I'm like oh all I want to do is run towards this in everything I do. And then that idea of like, I looked at myself in the mirror. I'm like, this is okay. This is fine. And then all these things started to roll. And that became a little bit of a practice of like really wanting to check in. You know, I say every day, it's not every day, but it's, you know, those days I look,

I'm like, oh, this is a timeless level of check-in. How do I feel? Do I love me? And am I proud of myself? And that's, that's kind of my like true North always, if that's happening, I feel like I'm all right. I, you know, I think that's a beautiful thing because I think we talk about, I'm just prepping for, we're going to do a body, not even image. I want to talk about like, you know, the relationship we have with our bodies. And I think it is so fucked up in so many ways. Only less than 2% of women would identify themselves as beautiful.

Yeah. And, and I think that that is so fascinating to me. And we think about like the, the, the highest mortality rate in any psychiatric illness is an eating disorder. And if we look at it, I think 60% of all adolescents have some form of disordered eating experience. And that jumps to in the eighties, if you're an athlete. Yeah. Makes sense.

In any capacity. Okay. So here's what's fucked up about it, right? You have to fuel your body with food. There's no way around it, right? Like if you have a fear of like any other psychiatric condition, I can control this with medication. I can say, okay, we're going to avoid airplanes for a little while. We can, you know, you never have to look at a clown again if this is like the phobia, right? But like when there is this complicated relationship with how you feed your body and at the same time, how other

people perceive your body and how it is supposed to fit into a role of, you know, what you're supposed to look like and the constant inundation by social media. It is, it is a topic that I think we need to talk so much about. And so many people, I think it's like less than 8% of people are underweight who have an eating disorder. So it's also very invisible in terms of its illness, right? And then the introduction of weight loss medication that is so easily accessible right now, like Ozempic or Rebelsis or whatever those things are called. Can you can you imagine? Like, I just think about the necessity to implement something like getting eye contact with yourself in the mirror once or twice a week, if you can swing it and say, I'm proud of you. And I love you because your body never hears that ever from you.

And it hears so much from everyone else, right? Like it's most important. It's most trusted counterpart. You, it doesn't get to hear it from and everyone else is telling you what it is and how it is. I wonder, did you, did that study say, and I wonder this too, like you said, less than 2% of women can call themselves beautiful. Did it say, did it ask about men? I can't remember specifically in that, but so then I looked at some other resources, right? And there is a massive, like equally as debilitating, far less studied.

The reason I asked is because of the word. I wonder how many, like, because men in general and how we're conditioned, like calling yourself beautiful or pretty for whatever reason is something you couldn't do. Not me looking like pink. I'm pretty. I'm cute. It's fine. But you know what I mean? Like I was just wondering if the same verbiage was used or not. Well, and it's interesting. So like, you know, eating disorders, rates of eating disorders have been like, when I was back at the children's hospital, we rarely seen, I think I saw one male, uh, with anorexia and the rest were certainly, uh, females. And I, that those numbers are changing

significantly. Yeah. A because we don't talk about it nearly as much. Um, you know, you don't bring it to the forefront of conversations with parents or teammates or whatever the deal is. And so there it's, it's harder to identify. Um, but also I think that there is just such a stigma, right? Around the difference, you know, in those places. But I really, I am fascinated by it. And the fact that we spend less and less time in the physical spaces with each other, that we spend a lot more time comparing to the ideals that you are so accessible before you go to bed, before you even pee, you are looking at somebody else's ideal highlight reel, what that does to the psyche of humans

who are attempting to love themselves and other people. We will never, ever, ever meet that expectation that is so curated, right? Yeah. And so it's curated and they're not, most people aren't meeting that expectation themselves. This is why it's curated. This is why it's filtered. This is why it's adjusted. You know what I mean? When you're, when you're, if that's what you're showing and you're even yourself putting out, here's what I want it to look like. Half of the people who are putting it out, that's, they're also not able to say those things to themselves in the mirror. They're not spending time in the mirror. They're using social media as a mirror. But the other flip side is we can't escape like yes we're

trying to make changes especially i'm trying to with my children and the amount of screen time um but obviously that world is here right that's right so what what do we do and i think it's how like how much gravity and weight we give to our actual IRLs, our in real life interactions with the people in our circles, our kids, our partners, our friends, and also taking the time to like reprogram what may have heard. Like I think I used to think things are wonderful about people, but like I look right now, I see Jodi, you have such beautiful eyes and you're a beautiful human being and you make me

feel so much better about myself when I hang out with you. I don't need to keep that. That's for you. And we should share those when we have moments and chances. We don't get to see each other as much as we used to. Why would I not tell you all the things? I'm such a fan of you. I'm so proud of you. I love that we're friends. It makes me feel great. So thank you for you. But we should do that with all the people we care about. Shouldn't we? And I think we, you know, again, let's never underestimate our power. Because I think we spend a lot of time internally focused on all the things we're not. Which really robs us of our ability to remind other people of what they are. Yeah, absolutely.

And I think that is, that's the gift that all of us have, you know? I mean, we often, you and I often talk about that Ram Dass quote. We're just walking each other home. And I think, Jesse, in your work, you have done that talk about that Ram Dass quote. Um, we're just walking each other home. And, and I think Jesse, in your work, you have done that so relentlessly, so beautifully in so many different places. And, um, it's just, I mean, I would agree with you. It was such an honor to sit with you today and it's a long time coming, but the universe has always timed quite perfectly. And so I'm so grateful we got this opportunity today where, oh my gosh, now you're going to want to know all of the things and I may, I will put it all in the, in the show notes, but know, there's other places, but I'm busy out there doing real things in life. So Instagram, that's the one I've decided that I care about.

I can't keep up Jodi. I know who can really. So yes, find them there. I'll put all the things that the pre-sales of the book will start this summer. And I I'm so excited. The art of doing, so put it on your list to find and we'll get the pre-sale links. Of course, I'll put it on our platforms too because I'm just so proud of you.

I cannot wait to read it. Also, it's no secret. It's no secret that every podcast isn't filmed live. We know this in the world, right? So I just want you to know just today. Today is my champagne birthday. What? Now, my real champagne

birthday was when i was four because i was born on the fourth month of the fourth day of the fourth hour of the 40th minute there were four kids before me my mom was in labor for four hours but today i'm 44 uh so this is this is i was excited to be able to share my 44th birthday happy birthday jesse lipscomb thank you and the reason i said it out loud because i i wanted you to sing to me okay i will happy birthday to you happy freaking birthday to you happy i can't hit it now believe in yourself jody believe no believe now. Believe in yourself, Jodi. Believe. No, believe in yourself. Believe in yourself.

Birthday. Yes. To you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Ask for what you want in this world. Thanks, Jodi. Oh my God.

Another trip around the sun with this incredible human. And you got to witness it here on Everyone Comes From Somewhere. My fellow humans, thank you for joining us today. And from the bottom of my soul, Mr. Jesse Lipscomb, you're a gift to this world and a gift to me. Thank you for being here today. And to everybody else, take care of each other. Look yourself in the mirror. Say, I'm proud of you and just watch what happens. And then I'll meet you right back here, same place, next week. Hey, after this episode, if you're thinking about what do I do? Where do I go to do the work?

Where do I land? I'd love to listen to Jodi's voice more. Gosh, I wish she had a course where I could just do the work with her on my own time whenever I'm ready. Guess what I created? It's called Feeling Seen, the course, and it's so fucking good. I got to tell you that it's really good. If you want to have a place to land where you want to think a little bit more, you know, we talked about some really important things on this episode. And if you want to dive a little deeper with me, you can go to drjodicarrington.com and check out my courses. Feeling Seen is one that I think I created for everybody who wants to just sink in a

little more in this time of disconnect. So go there. I'll put a link in the show notes and I'll meet you there when you're ready. The Everyone Comes From Somewhere podcast is produced by the incredibly talented and handsome team at Snack Labs. Mr. Brian Seaver, Mr. Taylor McGilvery, and the infamous Jeremy Saunders. The soundtracks that you hear at the beginning of every episode were created by Donovan Morgan. Our executive producer is Marty Piller. Our PR big shooters are Des Veneau and Barry Cohen.

Our agent, my manager, Jeff Lowness from the Talent Bureau. And emotional support, of course, is provided by, relatively speaking, our children. For the record, I am a registered clinical psychologist in Alberta, Canada. The content created and produced in this show is not intended as specific therapeutic advice. The intention of this podcast is to provide information, resources, education, and maybe even a little bit of hope. I'm Victoria's MBA in Sustainable Innovation is not like other MBA programs. It's for true changemakers who want to think differently and solve the world's most pressing challenges. From healthcare and the environment to energy, government, and technology, it's your path to meaningful leadership in all sectors. For details, visit uvic.ca slash future MBA. That's uvic.ca slash future MBA.