Unlonely with Dr. Jody Carrington - How Do We Build Community When the World Feels So Divided? - Arndrea Waters King

Episode Date: October 1, 2026

What if your legacy isn’t something you leave behind…but something you practice every single day?This conversation with the incomprable Arndrea Waters King stopped me in my tracks.Because in a world that feels divided, heavy, and overwhelming…the answer isn’t bigger platforms or louder voices. It’s this: Leave things just a little better than you found themChoose connection over divisionAnd remember… you matter more than you think you doWe talked about legacy, loneliness, allyship, and what it really means to lead with love—not the soft kind…the powerful kind. The kind that says: “I may not fully understand your path, but I see you. And I’m walking with you.”Because this isn’t about perfection. It’s not about getting it right every time. It’s about showing up. Being curious. And taking responsibility for the kind of world we’re creating together.And maybe the most important reminder of all: Service isn’t just what we do… it’s who we become.If the world feels heavy right now, this one’s for you.Go listen. Sit with it. And then ask yourself: What’s one small way I can make things better today?Follow Arndrea Here:https://x.com/ArndreaKinghttps://www.instagram.com/arndreaking_official/https://www.facebook.com/arndreawatersking/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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And can I just tell you today, I've been very nervous about this episode to sit in the greatness of, Andrea Water King is I still I just finished taping the episode and I'm doing this this intro because I wanted to share with you some of the things that this is one I'm never going to forget I promise you let me tell you a little bit about her um Andrea Waters King is a social justice leader humanitarian and founder of divine feminine as president of the drum major institute co-founded by dr. Martin Luther King Jr. She leads initiatives that promote peace, justice, and nonviolence worldwide. Through the Divine Feminine, which we speak about at the end of our interview today, Andrea reframes leadership as an act of love and grounded presence. Her work bridges legacy and modern practice, guiding women from burnout to balance and inspiring them to lead with heart in every sphere of life. She's also the co-founder of Realize the Dream and Chancellor of Legacy College,

carrying forward a multi-generational commitment to healing and justice. She is the wife of, well, the daughter-in-law of Martin Luther King, Jr. And her husband, Martin Luther King III, in collaboration together with their daughter. They've worked tirelessly, tirelessly, which is much easier said than done, to have the hard conversations around inclusivity and the that happens around racism, what it means to build a world rooted in love. And, you know, I was just reminded, I'm going to read to you a little piece. This is, of course, her father-in-law's words spoken in 1963. She never, of course, met him because he was assassinated when her husband was very young.

But this is a piece of the speech that Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. gave at the March on Washington in 1963. And she refers to the speech throughout our interview today. But I just wanted to read a little excerpt because it really reminded me just, you know, how much, even so many years ago, the dream, the hope was we could be doing things better and differently and hear how we're still struggling so much. He says in this speech in 1963, we cannot be satisfied as long as the Negro's basic mobility is from a smaller ghetto to a larger one. We can never be satisfied as long as our children are stripped of their adulthood and robbed of their dignity by signs stating for whites only. We cannot be satisfied as long as the Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and the Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to. to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until justice rolls down

like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream. I say to you today, my friends, though even though we face the difficulties, even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up. Live out the true meaning of its creed. We hope. hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal. I have a dream that one day, on the Red Hills of Georgia, sons of former slaves and sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood. I have a dream that one day, even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of

oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. I have a very much of dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream. I have a dream that one day in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips stripping with the words of interposition and nullification, one day, right there in Alabama, little black boys, and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers. I have a dream today. That's just an excerpt from that speech that the woman you will get to sit with today is charged with living out a piece of that legacy of her father-in-law,

of her husband, together with her daughter and the king family. I hope you enjoyed as much as I did. And it has given me pause. It has given me so much hope. And just so much inspiration to keep doing the next best right kind of thing. Because the world needs us now more than ever. So my friends, Andrea Waters King. Okay. I waited a long time to be in the presence of such greatness.

And I'm going to kick it off with this great big question for you. I you've said legacy isn't something we preserve. It's something we practice. And for our listeners who feel divided, lonely, unsure how to help in this place these days, what does practicing legacy look like for you? Really dive deep for me and tell me what that means because I want people around here to get it,

not just talk about it. Well, and one of the things that, well, thank you for that question and such an honor and a privilege to be here with you today and have this conversation. You know, it kind of started obviously marrying into the King family, and you hear about, you know, legacy, legacy, my father-in-law, and then, of course, my husband, Martin Luther King III. But one of the things, particularly when we had our daughter, Yolanda, that we are very, very passionate about is for everybody to understand that we all in our own unique

and wonderful and individual ways, are heirs to the legacy of Martin Luther King Jr. You know, people like if there's nothing else that they can remember from the I Have a Dream speech, they can remember that the part about my four little children. And certainly, I believe that he definitely meant literally his literal children, but I think also in a broader sense, they were in some ways even place cards for each and every one of us.

And so even letting people understand that this idea, notion of even the King legacy or the legacy of Martin Luther King Jr., in this building of the beloved community takes each and every one of us. I always say that we all have a unique and purposeful place in that. But separate and apart, even from the legacy of Martin Luther King Jr, the fact that we are here on this earth at this time as humans, we all have a legacy. We all have something that only that we can do that's just so important,

so powerful and so potent that we were chosen or we came, however whatever your belief is at this time, at this moment to fulfill that. There is no one here that is listening. There's no one that's walking, even if they've forgotten it or not know. That does not have a powerful purpose to be here now. And finding that and living that is our legacy. And even though it's different for everybody, the one thing that it does, there's one criteria that it makes the world a little bit better when you leave than

when you found it. It's kind of like that old, you know, in America there, it's this whole, you know, camping creed, right? Like you leave the campsite just a little bit better than when you got there. And that to me is what legacy is, and that's what each of our purpose

is, is to find something that makes it just a little bit better than when we got here. Oh, I love that. I can't imagine when you married into this family. I mean, talk about it's the epitome of legacy. I have a dream. There's nothing probably more profound when people just even hear those words, what it takes them to. And to live in that

every day, tell me, does it get heavy? Is it, does it feel overwhelming sometimes? Or does it just fuel you? I mean, I'm sure it's good day to day. I mean, you're human just like the rest of us. I got it. We're going to get back there. You know, I understand. But I, but I'm interested in that, you know, because I think, you know, we, we have to talk about being unloony these days. And it's, It's lonely at the top. It's lonely when we have to sort of set the example or the precedent again and again and again and again. And in a world that feels increasingly heavy, tell me, tell me about that. How do we manage that when we feel like it's just sort of all for not?

I think that one of the things that, well, for me, I'm very blessed because I have an extraordinary husband. He truly is a extraordinary. Are you, let's be honest. Okay. Is he amazing? Yeah, he is amazing. I thought he's going to say it's he's lovely. So yeah, he's lucky too.

Yes, he's absolutely. Yeah, let's talk really about why he's lucky, all right? He is absolutely amazing. No question. No question about it. So that obviously helps. But I think right now, I don't know anyone, and if you're out there, please let me know,

who has not felt over these past few years. Like, you know, my father-in-law's last book is, where do we go from here, chaos or community? I don't know anyone who doesn't feel like there has not been some chaos in their lives, in someone else's lives, in the world. And for me, it's very hard to not ache right now, to not ache for the possibility. To be honest, in a lot of ways, you know, we talk about, you know, I have a dream. it seems that we are farther away from that dream rather than closer.

And certainly there are so many days and times where that feels incredibly sad and also incredibly heavy. But you know what's so interesting, Jody, every time, every time there's something or someone, one that just that reminds me of how extraordinary we all are and how extraordinary the human spirit is. And I always, I used to, I taught our daughter, and I got this from Mr. Rogers, who I love. I mean, I just love Mr. Rogers. And one of the things that he would say, you know, to tell children when they're afraid or when things are going on is to always look for the helpers. And one of the things that I've learned to do when things feel overwhelming or they feel almost beyond repair so chaotic.

It's to look for the helpers, to look for the good, to look for because it always is there, always. And so that is what always kind of gets me back on course. And then also, for me, I am very, very protective of my time, my space. And what I mean by that is just making sure that I'm edifying myself, even before I see my daughter in the morning. You know, it helps that I'm an early riser, you know, but. Well, let's talk about that for a second because I think this is true.

I mean, I love that line by Mr. Rogers. I, we talk about it all the time around here. What I'm most interested in these days is the helpers. Is the people sort of leading the legacies? Because oftentimes we're worried about serving a world and as we should be. I, you know, again, that's a whole other conversation. But I'm most interested in these days is the helpers. Because if the big people aren't okay, the little people don't stand a chance.

If the ones at the helm are not okay, the ones they're leading will suffer. And so I'm so interested in, you know, your conversation just to say, I mean, you said that really unprompted. I got to look after me first, even before I become a parent, even before I come up, you know, a partner. You know, I'm adding to your thing there. But I think about this all the time. That's the greatest thing that I think as I transition into my 50s, what I really understood to be true to my bones is that if the big people aren't okay, the little people don't stand a chance.

And so when you're going to really think about leading a legacy, the performative way of like, you know, self-care is such BS in my mind, right? Because you can drink all the kale and you can do all the yoga, but she's a waste of time if you're not doing that in a regulated system. So walk me through. I mean, you have headed some incredible conversations around hate crime, not just like how can we do better in the world, but really how do we fight some of the deepest, darkest work? How do we hang on to those conversations? So staying fueled in this space where division is always, as you say, you know, are we getting farther away from that in some moments? Do we feel like that sometimes? What keeps this fire? Because, I mean, at the opening, I mean, I saw it. I can feel it. I mean,

if you're not watching this on video, I mean, who doesn't want to jump on your team yesterday? Because it's in your bones. I can feel it. And, you know, on my best days, that's it. Like, you, there's no stopping me. We're all humans. We all start in exactly the same place. We end in exactly the same place. And what we do in the middle is critical. And so how do we stay in the game these days, particularly somebody like you who has such a big weight and a responsibility? Well, first of all, we all have a big weight and responsibility. You know, every single one of us, there's no hierarchy. being human. It just isn't. So that's first and foremost. I think, you know, when I used to

monitor hate crimes, like the Ku Klux Klan and Neo-Nazis and Skinheads, I think I just became aware very on, very early on in that work that that could absolutely corrode me inside. And I think that's what my father-in-law meant with you can't meet hate with hate. But I also had to figure out, in my way, in authentic way, well, then how. How do you do that? And for me, I had a quote that was on my office wall. That's still my North Star to this day. It was a quote by Bell Hooks that said,

we must never become like that, which we're fighting against. And then I've also realized that you come from a place of power being for something rather than against. And so for me is constantly not what am I against. What am I for? What am I standing for? And also to remind myself, again, even as I'm looking at injustice or things that literally makes my skin crawl, I find myself constantly or I challenge myself to separate the evil act from the individual and to understand that it's the acts that I'm stand, you know, what am I standing for? Again, what am I standing for?

and to separate that evil act to remember, you know, the fundamental, I think we were talking about self-care, not out in the world, so I can get back on self-care. No, you're doing it. You know, the fundamental basis of the work of building the beloved community is a reminder that we're all interconnected. And again, that goes back to, you know, there's no hierarchy in being human.

Yeah. You know, we are all interconnected in a way in which some magical, mysterious way in which we really see. still we don't know. And once we can really get our arms around that, that we are interconnected, no matter what, you know, your children may look, your children look different than my daughter, you know, they may love differently. We may worship differently. You know, that's, you know, okay. I mean, it's just what it is. You know, for us not to see differences, it would be assonide. But for us to judge those differences, you know, that's like going into like a field of

flowers and like, okay, because those are wildflowers versus those are roses. One is better than because those, you know, it's ludicrous, right? We're all interconnected. We're all part of this beautiful, wonderful bouquet. And so just reminding ourselves of that and being rooted and grounded in that is how I approach my work. And keeping that in mind is what keeps me on the track that not only is healthy, I believe is healthy for us as a community, it's what's healthy for me as my body. Okay. Do you know what I mean?

Like because, you know, I'm not hating, hate, meeting hate with hate, or I'm not, or it gives me kind of that, that back to that safe ground when I'm, you know, getting riled up or I can, you know, so that kind of is where that's my North Star, my beginning point, my coming back to, in my work, my belief system. Yeah, it's that, I mean, what I hear you talking a lot about is hope. And I think it's interesting, you know, hope is medicine. There's a whole bunch of research now, even sort of in the medical community and kids,

about how do we really sort of infuse this idea that, you know, there's hope. So these two places of really being, I think, realistic about how for some people, the experience of this world is different. I'm interested most in privilege. And it took me a long time to talk about this. I mean, I've said this publicly in the books I've written. I've talked about this. I mean, I didn't see a person of color until I was in grade three.

I didn't understand in our country, you know, that there was an attempt at a cultural genocide on indigenous peoples. And there I was as a doctor working in foster care. You know, where in any given moment, 72% of kids in care are indigenous and they only make up 10% of people. percent of the population. I did not understand truly what it meant to have privilege, which is really the definition of privilege. You don't even know you have it. And I'm so interested in this place of allyship. Can you tell me what has impressed you the most when you really sort

of feel it in your bones that you have an ally and why is allyship so important? I would love our listeners to understand why when fighting for your own rights feels so much more empowering when you have a village, a community, a group of people who are in a position that may be different than yours that stand up and scream louder than you do. Can you tell me about that? You know, I was trying to think of different ways to express it, but I think that all of us deserve to be seen and acknowledged and witnessed. And I think even particularly women, we understand even that witnessing,

not that men don't, but in a more visceral maybe way. And when you are an ally, what you are saying is that, you know, I may not understand everything that you have walked because it will be impossible for any of us. I mean, you can't understand everything in your husband walking you all live in the same yes. So, but, but I am here to be with you to make that walk just a little bit easier.

I am here to, if that road is bumpy, you know, and I don't have on any shoes, but you have on shoes. And so, you know, I may not understand what it feels like to walk over a rocky road barefoot. But, you know, I will, you know, as I'm walking with you, I will hold your hand. And even though I may not feel that pain, just the fact that I can see your pain, I can acknowledge, I can witness. You know, there is something. And once I, and I can also feel empowered. so that in my life, I can do something to make it a little bit better.

Because it also is, what are you going to do with the knowledge? And that doesn't mean that, you know, we're going to, you know, I mean, sure for a lot of us, I mean, I'm out marching or, you know, that might not be that. It might be, you know, writing letters. It might be. But just outside of the physical. action before any of that, the inner acknowledgement. You know, there was a reason

why even during the civil rights movement that, you know, yes, they were trained before there was direct action and yes, it was to understand the, you know, what, you know, what to do if you were arrested or, you know, something more sinister than that. But it also was in a very real sense, a inner redirection. And once you are awake to that, you know, I think it's so fascinating to me

that in America, the word woke has taken such a negative cognition. When, you know, Dr. King's very last sermon before he was assassinated was at the National Catholic. in Washington, D.C., which is like basically our nation's church. And the title of that sermon was remaining awake through a revolution. And he talked about the importance of remaining awake.

So I think to be awake to another's points of view, to be awake to another person's pain, to be awake to another person's path, that only enriches us. It doesn't diminish. It doesn't absolve. And the more depth that we have, the more softening that we have, you know, that it ripples out. It really does. Yeah.

I love that. it doesn't absolve us, it enriches us. And I think about, I mean, when you're listening to this, and Andrea, I would love your opinion about this. You know, if you ever been in a room where you've looked around, can you take me to a time in all of your holy work when you're sort of calling people in and they rose to that occasion? Can you ever remember being in a place where you were like, yeah, this is what allyship looks like. Can you describe that to me? Oh my goodness. They're They are, and there have been many, many times, I think, because a key cornerstone of my work and my belief is building coalitions. So, you know, I just fundamentally believe in the beauty and the potency and the power of diversity.

You know, I think we're getting to the point in, you know, in nature and, you know, in nature. in history and health. Like, like, let's just health, right? You know, everyone is talking now about their gut biome, right? Byong, you know, like, okay, your gut, your gut, your gut. Great. Well, most of us can, are getting to the point where we can see that each of us are a reflection of nature, right? Like, we are reflections of nature.

And so if that's true, if we really, if we are reflections of nature, nature itself is more healthy, the more diverse it is. And our guts, if we want to then take it in as reflections of nature, the more diversity we have in our gut and the gut bacteria, the healthier we are. And so therefore, if we're reflections of nature, of diversity is, I'm looking at my window because I'm looking out at the beauty and the diversity within nature. up, you know, within nature. And if that's considered healthy, you know, healthy for our nature, if, in fact, our bodies are healthier. We understand now the power of our gut, what makes our gut

healthier, gut healthy as having a diverse, you know, system, you know, well, why wouldn't that same thing be true out in the world? Yeah. And so what that makes me think about is sort of a comment like this. People are hard to hate close up. When you're looking around at the diversity that is in your, community, your soccer field, your friendship group. What does that look like for you? And sometimes, you know, the things that we know and we love and we believe we keep close, right? Because if you look like us, sound like us, talk like us, we're going to keep you close, right? There's safety in that. I understand all of those things. But part of my worry these days is particularly, I mean, introduction of the forward facing cameras 2009, smartphone 2006. After that, we've seen a significant

drop in things like mental health. So depression, anxiety, all of those things. things, yeah? Because we are so much healthier when we have an eclectic understanding, when we get exposure to things, when we, you know, we see things. And I'm so interested in the on-purpose necessity of creating diversity in our spaces. Because if I, if left to our own devices, your social media is not social. You will only follow the people you like and you love. You, you know, you block everybody else if they disagree with things you, you know, you don't really love. And so what? The algorithm is. help with that. We don't even have to do the work anymore. We don't have to block as many people.

All we have to do is just start, you know, and then these algorithms feed us and feed us and feed us. And so we're more and more separate. We're more and more divided. We're only hearing, you know, one, one, you know, one, you know, viewpoint. Or we're only seeing the color blue. That's all we're seeing. We're seeing blue because we've typed in blue or we've hit, you know, videos with blue in it. So we're missing the entire spectrum and infinity. of colors because we're just so focused on. So, you know, and not only has it caused more disconnection from each other, we are more disconnected from ourselves. We wrote about this in our book, My Legacy, because we were looking at this idea of the fact

why are we more disconnected than ever, you know, and we're disconnected from ourselves, we're disconnected from each other. We're disconnected from our environments. Oh, I'm sorry. I took it. So this and we have to almost be deliberate. Yes. We have to be deliberate in being diverse.

We have to be deliberate in seeking out opportunities, seeking out people, seeking out environments that constantly infuse us with that So that idea of connection. But we first have to start, again, which is how we started at one point in the conversation, connecting to ourselves first and foremost every day. And I think it's the discipline of connection. I keep talking about that now around here

because it's like, you know, it's so easy to sort of do some other things. It's the discipline of reconnection because it's nice to sort of be like, yeah, no, this is good, I'm doing these things. But how do we stay and go a little bit deeper? How do we apologize? How do we come back in and understand those processes now when it's so easy not to get disconnected? I love this stat. Our great-grandparents looked at their children 72% more of the time than we look at our babies today.

Because we've never had this many exit ramps. We've never had so many opportunities to look away. And the one thing that hasn't changed in humans is our operating system. We are wired for connection. To know more about each other. And I mean, I mean, I always back to, I have a dream idea, which, you know, I read at the top of this show so that our listeners will remember what hope feels like, what it sounds like. And it's always about we'll get sort of overwhelmed with the disconnection of the world. And what that steals from us is our capacity to be human, which is to reach out and connect. I'm, I'm most interested in how we make this accessible to a very tired world to have. more conversations around never underestimating your power of, you know, I often talk about, you know, just the importance of a, there's a beautiful author in our country called Jesse Thistle. And he wrote a book

from The Ashes. And I think about all the time, his conversations about, you know, how he changed from being unhoused, being in the foster care system and then, you know, now doing a PhD at McGill. And he said, if I were to sort of string together some of those experiences, they're very tiny. They were a person once who knelt down in front of me on a street corner and asked me my name. And for many months, nobody had asked me my name. It was Jesse, the name my father had given me. And when I heard myself say my name, it brought back something in me. And so when I think about allyship, when I think about, you know, what do we do to reconnect in a disconnected world?

It doesn't have to be massive. And another thing, too, I mean, I am that I believe. firmly is also it doesn't. Allyship is not about guilt, right? This work is not about, it's about collective responsibility, not about collective guilt. Okay, tell me more. Tell me more. What happens when the guilt takes over? Because I think that's the thing.

Aren't we all like, we don't want to say the wrong thing. I don't want to F this up. I don't want to like look at me in my, you know what I'm going to, I see that all the time. But again, that's, that's step number one. Number one, let me just explain it to you. You probably will mess up. Yeah, permission provided. Mess up, please, please.

Yeah, like, I think, like, you know, like this concept that you have to be so perfect about you won't. I mean, that's like saying, you know, like, I had a friend once that said, yeah, as she was raising her sons, like, you know, yeah, I already have a, I have a savings account already that I'm, you know, putting money in the piggy bank for their, for their, for their, for their, um, for their. counseling because I'm sure. I was going to say, I know, I know. As a psychologist, I'm like, you know what? Yeah. And that's what, I mean, I think number one, when your intentions, I mean, we all can feel someone's intentions.

Yeah. And when your intentions are good, that's number one. And if you make a mistake, apologize. Like, what do we tell our children, right? First thing, if you make a mistake, I'm sorry. And then, and then move on. Particularly if you, you know, so don't. But this paralysis of analysis or this collective guilt, this guilt, that's not.

helping anyone or anything, including, you know, the communities that you are, you're wanting and seeking an allyship, nor is it helping yourself or your nervous system. Because this is not about collective guilt. Okay. It isn't. That's, you know, that's, you know, what it is about is collective responsibility. I love that so much. Our responsibility to ourselves, our responsibility to our children, our responsibility in our belief of a world

in which we can believe in again. That is, that is, and if you, and operating from there and in that spirit and in that acknowledgement and that curiosity, I think also being curious.

Yes. And when you're curious and, like, then it's not like, oh, I have to do this, right? You know, look, I'm very interested in now I should, and I'm curious. I'm really curious about another's experiences because it's so different than mine.

You know, I think also to have that sense of curiosity as well is a beautiful and wonderful thing. I think so too, and I'm interested even in that curiosity, you know, doing some research on our own, really understanding. I mean, this is one of the benefits of, you know, having access to such information these days, which I, of course, can. be such a double-edged sword. But I'm, you know, if you have questions and you're curious about it, do the, do the research. Because I think sometimes we put the onus on marginalized people's to sort of explain the world to us. What does that look like? How come it's like this? You know, and I, and I'm interested, you know, I always hope that my questions from curiosity are like, okay, so like, what does that feel like sometimes when, when nobody gets it?

How isolating and lonely is it? And I, you know, when I, when I look at your work, And I think about the many generations that have come behind you and the ones that are now laid out in front of you. I'm so interested in as humans, how do we do better? How do we be better? And I love, you know, you have a whole sort of portion of your work now committed to the divine feminine. And I'm so interested, I say around here, I mean, I have two sons and a daughter. And so this is nothing about men versus women. I'm most interested in how those who identify as women with a deeper emotional,

language are going to be necessary at the table. This has nothing to do with equality. This has everything to do with the skill set needed in this very disconnected world. We need an emotional language to bring us together because you name it, you tame it. Guess who's far more equipped, those who identifies women. We've had so much more opportunities. So tell me about how the defined feminine fits into that, your vision, your sort of hope with this work, what that looks like for you because I would love everybody to know so much more about it. It's really not about, gender. It's about principles. And actually one of my favorite authors is a Canadian youngian psychologist that since passed on. Her name is Marian Woodman, and she talked about

the feminine principle. And she said that one of the greatest works of our time is, and each of us is rediscovering the feminine principle. Because those things that are the principles that we have found a way to diminish and not honor. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, And, of course, we all have both masculine and feminine. There's the divine masculine and the divine feminine in every one of us. We have in this world, it is structured where we honor more of the masculine principles, right? You know, you know, this, this, direct, lot. And all of the superpowers, if you will, of the divine feminine, we don't acknowledge.

We don't get space or room for. We don't get space and room for intuition. My God. which is, you know, we don't give space and room for. And again, it's not about being, when I say softening, it's not being about being powerless. Because if you think that the divine feminine is not powerful, you try to come across a mama bear. Well, and how many countries right now led by women are at war? And I think, I think your conversation.

And then women, you know, when women are, they found like when women are empowered, you know, and villages or, you know, then the communities do better. Collaboration. Exactly. Balance. Yeah. Exactly. Harmony.

You know, those are things that, you know, so that, you know, we look at, you know, if I see a child hurting, that's not even my child. If it's a child, you know, so we have that, that compassion, right? And also, not only when we talk about the divine feminine, I mean, a lot of it, it's not all it's not wrapped in motherhood, it either, because, again, there are so many ways to mother there. So if you, you know, if you're not married, if you don't have a child, that doesn't mean that you're not, you know, a part of this. And so my, my belief is that when women heal and when we rise, the world will rise. And as we're giving a space for those superpowers of the

divine feminine, if we are, and as we're giving a space for in ourselves and other women and connecting and encouraging, I feel like, and I've said this before, we're at a time and, and I think in our history that the roar of the divine feminine will no longer be ignored. And as we give space and room for her like in ourselves and our body with our sisters and out into the world. And as we heal and rise, the world itself, the earth will heal more and more and more. And again, it's not about replacing the divine masculine and ourselves are out in the world. What it is is giving the divine feminine her place that is that is giving her space and her place that is equal. to that and it benefits everyone.

Oh, and I think about this. So if I want to think about what that divine, divine feminine means, I think about things like doing the next best right kind thing. I think about, you know, how we operate with compassion. You know what? This is Bruce Perry's work. He co-wrote a book with Oprah talking about, you know,

asking this question instead of what is wrong here, what is wrong with this one, what happened to this one. And what that switches is. this thing called empathy. It switches us into this place of seeking first to understand before being understood. You know, all of these things that when we're really grounded in ourselves, we have access to. Because so many of us haven't lost our ability to be great. We've lost access to it in this very busy, overwhelmed, noisy place of divisiveness. When we slow down and come back into that sense of intuition, which women tend to be a lot more connected to, not again, you know, two sons,

an amazing husband and one daughter, I often think about my role these days as sort of, I can't tell anybody how to be anti-racist or inclusive or kind. I have to show them. And for me, that's what really allyship is about. How can you do the next best right kind thing? Little things every day.

Listen, you don't have to create a march in your community. Is this true? I mean, waving at your neighbors, complimenting people, asking, being curious about what, you know, why would you say something like, help me understand where that, comes from or what tell me more about that what are those examples like on any given tuesday how do we sort

of start to integrate the divine feminine into conversation so that we can slowly create and envelop this world into a place that we want it to look a little bit better when we leave well first of all slow down and to find that even in the midst and I know I know I know I know I'm a I get it I love that you say slow down when I look at the 67 things you got on the go right now now. You would be so surprised how much, you know, as opposed to efforting and forcing to find a way underneath it all for flowing. So slow down to speed up. Is that what you're telling me? Yes. And instead of the force, you know, to finding the flow, I think also, you know, another very fundamental principle to the divine feminine is love.

But I always have to be very clear in level set when I'm talking about love because the divine feminine love is rooted in the agape love because there's different levels and different types of love, right? There's the love and a lot of this Martin Luther King talked about. He talked about the fact that there is different levels of love. The first is utilitarian love. He said that we should never embrace that type of love because you only love something when it's useful to you.

And then there's a friendship love. You said that's not the highest love. But it's a beautiful love, but it's not the highest love because you love your friends because they love you. And then there is humanitarian love. And to a certain degree, I think we were talking a little bit about humanitarian love. And that's wonderful. But the problem with that, the reason that's not the highest level of love

is that because you run the risk of loving everything in general and nothing in particular. Right? And there's romantic love, which is beautiful, wonderful. And as we all know, it's great when it's great. It's not, but it's not. So therefore, it's not the highest love. Then he talked about, you know, then there is a love, that maternal love, right? And that is a wonderful love because, I mean, it's challenging.

But because you love something so completely in all of it's, you know, And again, our children know how to push every single button that we have. But still there is like, you know, I read a book once. Then this lady had, she had died and she went to heaven. And she noticed that they were, as people would pray, that angels would go and catch, like, they would come up as lights. The angel would go and catch the prayers and, you know, bring them back. But she noticed that some prayers were different. They were bigger or bolder or brighter.

So she inquired, what is different about those prayers? and she was told that those prayers are a prayer that a mother prays for her child. There's something so beautiful and powerful about a mother's love, but even that, even that is not the highest love. The highest love is agape. It is the acknowledgement of our shared humanity. It actually, the difference between that love and most of the other loves is it's not sentimental at all. There's no sentimental attached to it.

it's an acknowledgement, it's a choice. It's the remembering that we're all interconnected. And I think, you know, walking through the world with that curiosity, with that knowledge, with that agape love, and that type of love is something that is germane to all human beings. But it certainly is something that's germane to women and the divine feminine. And right, again, if we see something going on over there that does, and I look at Renee Good in Minnesota. It wasn't her child. All right, wasn't her. But, you know, but you're going to stop because you see someone, else hurting. That, you know, that acknowledgment. I may not understand your hurt. I may not understand your pain. But what I do understand is that we are all human and that we are all interconnected.

That is that agape love. And it's embracing that type of love that will heal us, will heal our nations, and will ultimately heal our world. Yeah. That's it. And I think I want to just sort of wrap up with this, you know, your conversation about serving and its connection to loneliness. Because, you know, I often talk around here about why we're in a loneliness epidemic. I don't actually think we're in a mental health crisis. I think we're in an understandable human response to a loneliness epidemic. We were never meant to do this alone.

And we've never felt more alone. And one of the things you've said is really service is not just what we do. it changes who we are. And when we are in a lonely place, the idea of what can we do for another can be our greatest source of fuel. Can you end on that for us? Can you tell us a little bit about how you've seen that happen in front of you beside you, around you?

Well, I believe so fun. I believe in that so much that we have an initiative called Realize the Dream, where, you know, the goal is to unite America and the world by having 100 million hours of service. by the 100th birthday of Martin Luther King Jr. in 2029 because I believe so viscerally in the fact that when we are serving each other, you know, and they're all kind of studies. Now, now they're studying with neuroscience and that, you know, like when you're serving, you know, we're seeing that kids who serve have, you know, higher, have higher mental health than, you know, kids that are not involved in service. You know, service simply is the rent that we pay for living on this earth. Service is the rent we pay for living on this earth. Okay? And it can be pleasurable. Right?

Like even with our, well, it is pleasurable because, you know, they've, you know, like, it's so interesting. They've done these studies that not only like when you serve, when you have service, are you, you know, like the person that you're serving is getting a dopamine rush. You're getting the dopamine rush by serving. But here's what's cool, Jody. If you just witness an act of service just by witnessing and not being the two parties that. Part-T-puts part took on it. We're taking part in it. Yeah, exactly. There you are.

Step around apart from those individuals, if you're across the street and you just, you witness it, then you get a dopamine rush. Talk about being interconnected and going back to that agape love and being interconnected as humanity. But that also shows just how powerful and life-changing. And one of the things that also we were adamant about is that we're not telling people how to serve, right? Because it's like, what is it that you, that turns you on? What is it that excites you?

You know, for some people, it may be the elderly, for some it might be animals, for some it may be children, for something. I mean, it could be, it's an infinite. But it's just finding something and to do something just to make someone else, again, to make that, that, campsite just a little bit better than when you were when you found it when you found it make it just a little better than when you found it well i got to tell you Andrea king i am so much better than when i found you at the start of this interview and i know everybody who is lucky enough to hear your words today um gosh you are changing the world i can't imagine a father-in-law who never met you i can't imagine how proud he must be of you so thank you Thank you for being with us today.

And friends, I am going to, I'll link everything in the show notes, how you can be a part of everything that the Kings are doing. The, you know, realize the dream foundation, all of those things that will link in the show notes so you can connect there. But listen, from the bottom of this Alberta girl's heart, thank you so much for being here today. Thank you. Thank you.