Unlonely with Dr. Jody Carrington - How Do Women Find Their Voice After Trauma? with Alreen Haeggquist

Episode Date: April 16, 2026

If you’ve ever wondered what it really takes to speak up after abuse, this conversation is for you.Dr. Jody Carrington sits down with women’s rights attorney, author, and survivor Alreen Haeggquist for a powerful conversation about childhood abuse, silence, shame, healing, and the life-changing work of finding your voice after trauma. Alreen shares how surviving profound abuse shaped her work advocating for women facing sexual abuse, harassment, and discrimination—and why telling the truth can become part of coming home to yourself.Together, they unpack what trauma-informed law should look like, why survivors are so often misunderstood in legal systems, and how the process of being believed can be healing in and of itself.In this episode, you’ll hear about:Alreen’s journey from surviving abuse to advocating for other womenWhy secrecy can keep trauma alive—and what begins to shift when you speakHow trauma affects memory, storytelling, and credibility in legal spacesWhat a trauma-informed law practice actually does differentlyWhy many survivors speak up first for others—and heal in the process themselvesThe mission behind the HAA Fired Up FoundationA raw, practical, deeply human conversation about trauma, truth, and what becomes possible when women stop carrying it alone.---Links & Resources:Unlonely with Dr. Jody Carrington: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unlonely-with-dr-jody-carrington/id1708644669Dr. Jody Carrington: https://www.drjodycarrington.com/Alreen Haeggquist: https://www.alreen.com/Haeggquist & Eck, LLP: https://haelaw.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back. Welcome into another episode of the Unloly podcast. And today, buckle up. Maybe shake your shoulders a bit before you step into this one. I want you to meet a lawyer who is the epitome of rising from a horrific situation. And in one lifetime, rewriting her own story so that she can serve other people in a similar situation.

You're going to meet Alreen Hayquist today. And she is a lawyer, an advocate for women who suffer from sexual abuse, harassment, and discrimination, and or discrimination. She's got a, as I said, a lawyer over 21 years experience, and she's recovered millions of dollars for clients in cases involving sexual harassment, discrimination, retaliation, and wrongful termination. she has this unwavering commitment, as you'll hear in this episode, to not allowing wealth and power and influence and status to exempt anyone from the rules of society. She knows this in her bones. She will recount in this episode,

so I will offer a bit of a trigger warning, but she recounts in this episode that her dad was a terrifying presence who subjected her and her nine siblings in various, to sexual, physical, and verbal abuse. And despite knowing her mom remained and continues to remain silent. So she really unpacks in this episode just what it takes to bring to light secrets in systems that are usually best served if those secrets are never revealed. And she now has created, she found a lot of it.

at her own firm in San Diego in 2008. And she has helped hundreds of people from a legal, sorry, trauma-informed legal practice, one of the first ever to really challenge some of this society's most deepest held narratives. And her core message is, as a society, we need to break the silence to help women stand up to their abusers. And in 2023, Arlene broke her silence and published her story in her book, Fired Up, fueling Triumph from Trauma.

And I'm going to link all of that in the show notes, but I want you to take a listen to this incredible woman and soak up every bit of inspiration because she's nothing but. Okay, friends, now listen, buckle up. You know, in this season of Unlone, I think what I feel so incredibly honored to do is to be in the presence of women who have clearly blazed trails and done things that I think were almost unthinkable not very long ago. And Alreen Hayquist is, as you just heard in the introduction, I think one of the most passionate advocates for women, particularly those who

suffer from sexual abuse, harassment, discrimination, as has spent her entire career talking about advocating for and really creating a safe place to have some of the hardest conversations where many times women are just swept away. It's easily swept away. Irene, thank you for being here. And I mean, I just want to jump in into, I think, a big question around why now? Why now are you doing a... this work, what has allowed you to be in this place? How hard have you had to fight to get here?

And why is it so important? Sure. Thank you so much for having me and for having this platform. So I've actually been doing this work for work 23 years. I've been practicing for that long. My career has always been standing up for people that are voiceless. And I've really focused on representing women, I think just because it was a really a unicorn to have a female-owned firm doing work that was primarily on women's rights. And so that's what the firm does. Why now?

Like I said, it's not just now. It's been a while. But I think it's so important for women to know how much power they have when they start using their voice and start standing up for themselves. And I've seen that for myself and I see it from my clients at one. they start using their voice and standing up, that's really when they're able to heal themselves from, you know, any past trauma that they've had, past experiences that they've had, and where they can move on and feel powerful in their own space and their own bodies.

Yeah. And you know this in your bones. I do. Can you take us through this story how, you know, you really came from, I think, some of the most, I mean, tell your story because it's so remarkable. Sure. Yeah. So my, my background is I survived, you know, child abuse from the hands of my father. And he was, you know, abusive in all the ways, right? He was physically abusive. He was emotionally abusive.

He was psychologically abusive. And he was sexually abusive. And, you know, as a child, that's the man that's supposed to be bringing you up in the world. And he was the one tearing me down. And then you have your mom, right, who is really there. to protect you, to be your savior, and you know, think she's going to say something and be there. But my mom, you know, just stayed silent and she continues to just stay silent. She just never found her voice.

She never spoke out. She never protected her kids. And so that was the way I grew up. And I didn't know it to be any different, right? Like that was just my normal. And so as a result, I was very depressed as a kid. I was suicidal. I attempted to take my own life at a very,

age. I was like 10, 11 the first time. No way. I know, right? When you're like, and you remember that, you remember that very clearly at 10 or 11 that this is just, this place is not safe. This place is not safe and I don't want to be here. And I don't want to be here. And I don't want to be here. Like, I just want to go to sleep and never wake up again. And so I, at that age, I like went into the medicine cabinet and I have no idea what I took. I just took a bunch of pills. I did go to sleep. then I woke up and, you know, I could have taken Advil. I don't know what I took, but I woke up and I was still there. So it didn't work. And I think I, you know, at that very young age, I don't think you know how to, you know, commit suicide. It was just, you know, if I take a lot of

pills, you know, maybe you'll just, this is what I've heard. And it's so often, you know, interesting. I mean, we know this to be true that, that the human operating system has not evolved. And so we know this is very true, right? I just need to escape these feelings. And, you know, when there's nowhere to go, right, that this is what the world tells us to do. And so like at 11, my goodness, that little girl. I know.

I know. You don't realize you're that young when you're that young. But when you see as an adult and you see an 11 year old, you're like, wait, what? I know. I know. You know. Yeah. Yeah.

And then I, you know, it was that same way. It continued until I was 16. I committed suicide the second time. That time I ended up in the hospital. You know, they put my stomach. And then I went on my way and, you know, my family, there was no discussion about it. My family was like, oh, you know, it's school or it's the boyfriend and blamed it on

other things as opposed to just really looking at like what's happening, you know, in the house. But at that time is what I learned, you know, it was a really good student. It came naturally to me and it made me feel. good about who I was. So school was definitely an outlet. And I learned that I could move out of my house by going to college. If I, I could get a grant or scholarship, I could apply for that and I could move out of my house. And so I really pushed myself in high school to figure that out. Nobody had gone to college in my family. And so. Because let's let's be clear. There's 10 siblings. There's 10 siblings. Yeah, I'm the youngest of 10 kids. I was born in Pakistan. I came here when I was two. And, you know,

know, people, the other siblings had to get to work and do what they needed to do to make it here. And so I was the young one going to school. And did they experience the same level of abuse? Like have you, I mean, I'm sure you may get to this, but as a family system, were you aware? Yes. Okay. Yeah. I didn't, I wasn't aware in the sense like of all of my sisters. So there's six girls. I'm the youngest of six girls. When I was, um, about 12, my sister right above me. Um, um, who turned 18, essentially ran away from the house because of abuse. And when she did that, she opened up about the sex abuse by my father and to the other family members. And that's when it came out that it wasn't just her. It wasn't just me. You know, it was others. And that was the first time.

Again, we never talked about the details of what happened, right? There was no conversation about this is what happened to you. This is what happened to me. It was just this is what dad did, right? And we all knew what that meant. And what are we going to do about it? And in that conversation, now it was the 12 year old,

but in that conversation, it was, well, we don't want dad to go to jail. What would happen to mom? And so we, you know, kept that secret within the family. And that secret, you know, stayed until I wrote my book, you know, in the fall of 2023. And we have kept that secret. And that's, it's just been.

something we don't need to talk about. Other people don't need to know because, you know, they're going to judge us. They're going to, you know, think poorly of us and think we're disgusting. And that's a consequence of abuse, right? You internalize it and you think you are the problem, not that the other person is. And sort of as you've made your life in America, do you think that there was the perception that anything was wrong in your family system? No. Like, I think you could see my dad had a temper and I think his temper. came out to the outside world at times. So maybe they thought, you know, might be angry.

But no, we, like, that was like kind of the crazy part. And I guess this is part of my survival instinct, right? You would have all this stuff happening at home. And then we'd really like get dressed and like put the smile on and put out this outward appearance. Like nothing had just happened, right? Is it? It just ignored everything that just went on.

Nobody talked about it. Nobody said in me, nobody acknowledged, like, the intense moment. And then you, you know, kind of wipe away your tear, you move on, and you just keep going. Isn't that remarkable? I mean, I think about humans and behavior and, you know, that little girl in that moment watching the nine siblings above her, you know, looking to mom for some feedback, noticing that dad would just carry on and treat, you know, like just the narrative that starts to sort of set into victims of abuse, families.

systems that become so dysfunctional. You know, the story that was in dad's head as a result of, you know, normalizing some of the things that he was doing in his own home and what that was looking like and, you know, what that must have meant for your mother. All of those things are just, I mean, in the writing of that book, pulling all of those things together, tell me horrific, therapeutic, how did it feel to tell other people's stories? Tell me a little bit about that when that started to unfold for you. Yeah. So that was a process. right. It was not like you wake up one day and you're like, I'm going to tell my family secret in a book. Right.

It was definitely lots of, you know, years of, you know, therapy, a lot of inner child work, working through different healing modalities before I got to the point of writing my book. And that was just because, you know, abuse, even though same thing, I'd gone to college, I'd moved on to law school. like even though my mind kept telling me, get over it, you're fine. It was in the past. You need to move on. Other people have it way worse than you. You should be grateful for your life. You should be grateful for the things you have. And also like the things my mom would tell me, right, like that he was a good father because he didn't kick us out on the street. Right. He did still support us. There was still, you know, we lived in a home. We had food. And so I was just this ungrateful brat for even having these thoughts that, you know, he did still support us. He did still support us. There was still, you know, we lived in a home. We had food. And so I was just this ungrateful brat for even having these thoughts that, you you know, he mistreated us. And so all of those thoughts, even though I told myself that and I try to push it all away, unfortunately, that's not how the body works, right?

And I'm sure you've read the book. The body keeps score. And I'm sure some of your listeners have as well. But like you might want to forget about it, ignore it, repress it, and pretend like it didn't happen. But unfortunately, that's just not how it works. And your body will remind you that those things happen. And so, you know, when people are experiencing autoimmune diseases, for me, it was an ulcer.

I had an ulcer that just would not go away. And it was really like my body screaming at me. Like, you got some things you got to deal with, you know? Yeah. So physically showing up in my body. And I was affecting my relationships. You know, I was very short triggered. Little things would trigger me and I would like rage.

And the primary culprit was my husband. And then when I had a baby, I just, I did not want to pass that on to her, right? And I wanted to be present for her. And I wanted to be a mom that I dreamed of having, you know, when I was a kid. And so those things really got me to start, like, figuring out what was I going to do about it. And at the time, I didn't know, I, you know, the first thing I did, I mean, I guess I did a lot of things, but I guess one of the things that was pivotal. was, you know, going to the therapist and being like, all right, this is what's going on in my life. I know I have some, you know, some abuse when I was a kid.

Right now, you know, I just had my daughter her making me like cringe when she cries. So I'm going to see you for four times. We'll have four sessions. I'll come here once a week. We'll meet for an hour. I'll tell you about what happened to me when I was a kid. And then you're going to fix me and I'll be on my way. And yes, as we do.

Yeah, we're super, we're super talented like that. Yeah. Yeah. And so he laughed and I was like, I didn't think it was funny. I was just like, I don't want to see my whole life. Like I want to, we want to have these conversations. And then that's what your job is, right? And obviously I still see my therapist today.

That's not how it works. But that was kind of the start of, you know, opening up about what happened, right? Telling the secret to someone. And from that, you know, the healing process begins. you know, one layer at a time. Yeah. And if you take me back even, okay, so college was that sort of, I see even as you tell the story, it was sort of that notice of like, there's my exit, here's my way out. And, you know, a brilliant human, obviously. Can you tell me just briefly about your other siblings? Did they go on to do anything? Are they all still alive? How did they

operate in the world? So it's funny. We do talk about this. So there's, six girls. One, two, three had arranged marriages. The fourth. She did marry for love, we could we say, but that was her way out. Like, I'm going to get married and that will be my way to leave the house. My fifth sister, I told you, she's the one who ran away, and that's when the sex abuse towards me stopped. And then my out was college.

So we all found our way out. of the house. The four boys, we've never talked about the sex abuse by my father. I think they were abused in their own way, right? The physical and the psychological and the emotional. I don't think they experienced the sexual part of it. But kind of what I've learned is like even for the person who might not have it happen to them, even knowing that it's happened is sometimes worse for that individual.

So I feel bad for my brothers, but their way out was starting their own business. They didn't go to college, but they each have their own respective businesses in the world. And I think having siblings, you know, for sure helped, you know, but at the same time, they also didn't know what to do, right? Like, we're all in this kind of mess of like what's going on. And same thing, kind of that same belief system of like get over it, you know. Yeah. It's not bad.

Well, and the interesting, you know, the interesting thing about that is that the perception of that is like, are you fucking kidding me right now? The intention behind that, particularly as a sibling, is I want you to be okay. I cannot even conceive that I was in the same place when these things were happening to the people that I love the most. And so often, you know, particularly men and those who have sort of been in a space where there is no emotional language or opportunities for that, don't even know how to be getting. to have those conversations like, I'm sorry or I wish I would have or what the fuck was I thinking? Like all of those things don't even come. So then what we tend to do instead is like, you're good. We're good. Okay. Yeah. Everybody's good. Everybody's good. And you can imagine, like as you attest to in this beautiful book is that like that just makes every then subsequent relationship so problematic because it's like how do you then communicate about this massive thing that's in the room in an effort to sort of, you know, make change. God damn it, it's hard. And, you know, I love sort of like then this evolves into a law practice where you try to

facilitate the building of strength to kind of face those things. And so, so then this happens. You get into law school. Beautifully. You crush it. And did you meet your partner then? How did that unfold for you? Yeah. I actually met my partner. in my second year of college, the end of my second year of college. I met him then. We've been together over 29 years coming up in part. So we've been together a long time. And a lot of times I feel very lucky to have found him, you know, to be able to grow with

him just in order even just have the patience, I guess, with me. But he really did see something in me that I didn't see in myself at that time, you know. And that's really what he is. He's an architect. He sees faces that me and you would be like, just a pile of dirt. I see nothing here. But he sees this beautiful building even before it's there.

And I feel like that's really what he saw. And me, he saw who I was on the inside, even though I wasn't there yet. Oh, my God. That's gorgeous. This masterpiece of a woman that you always were. And he just uncovered that. That's amazing.

And so then talk to me a little bit about, I mean, trauma to trauma. triumph, I think is so, like, I just cannot think about a better way to articulate it because then now this, not only do you sort of practice law, but you create your own firm. And tell me a little bit about that and some of the people then that, you know, some of the, some of the stories that you're, you're noticing. What's happening these days is this world becomes more divisive, more lonely. And, you know, I guess back to that question about like, why now has it become so fundamentally critical to start to bridge these gaps that have been just so hidden for so long?

I think because I see the results. Like once you see the results and you're like, what is possible? You want that for other people. And I think for me, seeing the results in myself of going through this process of not keeping it a secret, right? The secret was what was eating me alive, right? By not talking about it, by keeping it, you know, repressed inside, pretending like it didn't happen. not saying anything to anybody, keeping it a secret, making sure, you know, my family was okay, nobody was offended, you know, I kept, you know, all the things we were supposed to do going.

The only person that was being hurt by that was me. Like, I was just suffering from that experience. And once I no longer did that, and now I just acknowledge, yeah, this happened. And for each step that I took of letting it out, I have only healed myself. My life is better. I feel better. I like being in my own skin. And so that from that personal experience,

and then for all the women that I represent, right? They come in, they have to tell their story to me. Then they publicize it, right? They put it in a court document and a complaint, you know. And those are really hard steps, but I always get to see the end result, you know, and the case is over how they feel. And same thing, it's like this, by letting it out

and not pretending like it didn't. happen and trying to brush it under the rug and saying it's fine and I'll be okay. I don't want to rock the boat. I don't want to cause fuss. I don't want to ruin his family. Whatever it might be to not do that, like the person, they themselves feel empowered and found their voice and they are living a better life. So for me, as I see the result of myself and other woman, I want to continue doing that because I think life is so short and I think you should be living the best life you could possibly have. Right. And that passion then makes so much sense to me, right? Because, I mean, oftentimes people ask me this, and I'm sure similar to you, you know, when you work with

severe trauma survivors, how does that not crush your soul every day? And I often think about it as like it is the greatest fuel to the passion because there's so much need, so much of what people hold so dearly and close to their heart, they've never exposed to it. And so much. anybody else in the world. And, you know, I think there's this term. I mean, it's not Bessel's work, but some guy who's very close to him said this all the time. You have to name it to tame it. And sometimes it's scary to do that in the mental health space. Sometimes it takes, it feels even safer to do that in a legal space. And I'm so interested in the conversations around mental health and supportive work in the legal space because historically, I mean, I've sat in many

courtrooms where I'm like, what the fuck? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's not how, no, no. Because oftentimes this is the first time would you say that people are telling their stories? Have you noticed that that has become such a big part of your firm, of your work, holding the emotional space for people who just really need justice? We pride ourselves on that. So we're a frontrunner in trauma-informed law. And so what that means is recognizing that somebody who has experienced trauma, they're not coming to you in this linear, chronological, perfectly ordered, detailed fact-oriented story that lawyers have taught and have been trained that that is what is required for credibility. And so we not only train

our staff, we have a survivor advocate here to help not only our clients, but the people that work here and train ourselves, but we're taking it one step further because we want other lawyers to be trained in that way, right? If you're going to do this work, and again, I don't blame the lawyer. This is just not taught in law school. When you go to law school, you know, you're taught to get all the facts. And if you don't got all the facts, you got all the facts, and you know, everything has to be told in like a perfectly chronological way. And so it's, we want to educate the lawyers and also like judges, right? Like this is what trauma looks like in the brain, right? This is the neurobiology of trauma. And so when you are representing a person,

person or somebody's in your courtroom that is having this experience, your behavior, even just the way you're asking the questions, you know, could re-traumatize them and actually get them to shut down as opposed to open up, which is really at the end of the day what you want. So we are very proud of that work and we realize how important that is. Same thing. You know, it's not like I started off and was like, oh, we're going to have a trauma and foreign law firm. But same thing from experience. You're like, this is a need. And so we wanted to provide that. Phenomenal. So, I mean, you're in San Diego.

I am in Alberta, Canada, in this moment. And so much of the conversations that happen in courtrooms these days, I find are so led by emotionally available humans who, you know, tend to be women, who can encourage people to sink into some of those emotions in a very hierarchical, patriarchal, patriarchal, rural-bound system. So this is true in psychology. This is true in foster care. Some of the work that, you know, we started doing is, you know, can we create places for judges to have conversations about what it looks like when we're talking about foster care, when we're talking about adoptive placement or, you know, apprehending kids, those kind of things. And I would argue, I mean,

I would, I would guess, I mean, have you seen there a shift? I mean, I think about the Me Too movement. I think about conversations that are so hot right now in the moment about, you know, P. Diddy, about, you know, what is happening in courtrooms and women just really trying to get believed. Talk to me a little bit about where we're at in that evolution, you know, your opinion in that space, how, I mean, many days it feels like we got a fucking mountain to climb. And then I also don't want to like take away from the fact that we're making a big moment, but like the fact that we have to have a term for trauma-informed law practices. It's very true in psychology, right? And I often say, I don't want you just to be informed.

I want you to be trauma integrated in your work. Right. Because you can be as sensitive as you fucking want. But if you are not integrating that knowledge into the way that you're going to conduct yourself in a courtroom in a practice where I'm going to make decisions for other people's lives, not taking into account that their brain cannot process this. It doesn't mean we go soft on people. It means we get human.

And so any thoughts you have in that space, I would love them. Yeah. So, you know, I think we've come a long way and I think the Me Too movement was huge. One, because it allowed women to know that they weren't alone, right? When you have these experiences, you really believe you're the only one that this has ever happened to. So you can't speak up because one, either somebody's not going to believe you or two, like you have the shame around it.

Like it was your fault somehow. And so you're to blame. So you can't tell anybody for that reason. You're afraid of the consequences. And so the Me Too movement, I think it's really important for that reason is like for the first time, women are like, oh, it wasn't just me. And this is happening to so many. And that's why the stats always blow me away. Like I didn't know the stat, right?

It's one out of every two women have been sexually assaulted. And I think that number is low because of underreporting. And so when you find out like how many people this is affected and we start talking about it, you know, that's when you can make the shift. with respect to what we see about, you know, women coming forward and not being believed, you know, that's in every case because that is how they defend it, right? They defend in three ways. And this is true in every case, which is first level. It's always to deny.

Never happen. Don't know what you're talking about. But then when the evidence comes in, whether it be document, a photo, a video, the witness, whatever it might be where they can't say it didn't happen, then they change it and say, well, she wanted it, right? It was consensual. We were in a relationship. She asked for it.

She was the one who was coming on to me. She put herself in so then it's all about the woman consenting to it or wanting it. And then the third level, you know, they still play with that one. And then the third is to attack, attack the credibility of the person coming forward in every which way that they can. Going back to, you know, she cheated on her test, you know, when she was in high school, you know. In 1987. Holy fuck. I know.

or she said, you know, this on this date and said something else, you know, that date, whatever it might be. And so that happens in every case. And so for me, what's important is for women when they come into my office to know that, right? Like this is not personal to you. We believe you, right? But this is how a defense attorney, right? The other side has to defend this case, right?

For them to say that nobody will say, I'm sorry that that happened to you. know, let's figure out how to fix it. Unfortunately, that's not the society. We live in, right? Accountability, you know, knowledgement for your own actions is really hard for society right now. But I'm hoping that as we continue the conversation, that will also, you know, take a shift, right, where people just start being accountable for their actions, right, on their own without having to be forced to be told how they should be. Right. And I think, you know, I think about the precedent that gets set so visibly now in this world of social media. You know, when there's a documentary, for example, that is on the top of my Netflix opportunities right now that, you know, unfolding, um, Diddy's experience. And I think about just the accessibility that young men, young women have to watching, you know, even when, you know, we provide situations or opportunities. for you to sort of have documented video evidence, it's not going to be enough. What how, what is that like for you? What is, you know, how do, how do you not let that get to

you, deflate you? What are some advice for those of us, you know, in this space of like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, this is going to happen because in any, anyway, you, you tell me. Yeah, I mean, I, I think that's really what it is that it's not to you personally. This is what this is all they have in their toolbox, right? Is to deny it and say you wanted it. And we know you didn't. And this is how we are going to refute that. But I don't want you to get stuck on that. Or, you know, I just want you to be prepared. And I do think that helps when you go into a situation like, okay, I know they're going to say this and you're prepared for that. And then they say it. And you're like, how did you know that? And you're like, well, because that's what they do

every single time. So that's why it's not surprising. That's how I deal with it, I guess, just because you know, and that's why, you know, sometimes I even tell the other side that. I'm like, I wish you'd come up with something new, you know, like come up with something better because this is what you're going to say. And you know, you already have it planned out. But yeah, that's, I guess that's how I deal with it. And do you attribute, I mean, I mean, obviously it's working. You have a 99% success rate. And do you attribute sort of understanding the game, if it were, and I don't even know if that's respectable to sort of call it that in the justice system, you know, in our respective countries, when you know that, you know,

we have a three-pronged approach to sort of, you know, come up against anything that's, that a woman is going to say, we're going to deny it, we're going to say, then it's consensual, and then we're going to attack your credibility, none of which is acknowledging the fact that this is a possibility. And we know that you can't address what you don't acknowledge. You can't heal which you don't acknowledge. And so what have you done in this approach that I just hope other people can begin to learn from that is really sort of setting a shift in understanding this is where they're going to come from and here's what is necessary to get voices heard?

Yeah, I mean, I think having other people that is always helpful, right? So whenever you have, you know, other women that it's happened to or even just the people that you told during the time that it happened, right? Like contemporaneously, you sent yourself an email, you told the girlfriend or somebody, you know, you're confidant about what was going on at the same time. Those are always hopeful to the situation. And I always tell them, like, we have a team. Like you're going to have a team.

And it's going to be, you know, the lawyers, everybody else in my office, your psychologist, you know, whoever it is you trust are part of your team. People who don't want to support you in that process aren't, you know, in the team. And your team is going to be behind you, you know, and working through this with you. With respect to like my strategy with the other side, it's just it's not backing down, right? Like so we're always up against just like the women, right? Like we're always up against the other side that has more money and more power. That's just that's just the nature of it, right?

We're going up against large institutions with, you know, a lot of money. and not letting them dictate, you know, the story and not letting them dictate the narrative about what happened, right? Because the other thing that gets flipped from like a bigger societal level is this woman's just in it for the money. And you're like, I don't know how that narrative began, but nobody, anybody that does any of this work knows nobody's coming out to tell their story from money. money, right? It's a very hard process. And you're not wanting to make that public, you know, for money. And there's, there's really, I mean, when we think about this from a psychological perspective, an emotional perspective, there's no amount of money that can prepare. I think, I think people aren't really aware of, you know, what it takes to go to trial. Can you talk a little

bit about that and, you know, what's involved in that process? And yeah, go ahead. So from a start of the case to the beginning, so the first part of the case is you put out what happened to you, right? And this goes, it's filed publicly in a court document. And then they get to tell you that you're lying, you're making it up, and they get an opportunity to defend that, right? And then the process is obtaining information, evidence from each side. And like I said, they're doing everything to attack your credibility. So they're looking at prior work records. They're looking at medical records, whatever it might be to find ways to say,

you're a liar, right? That's their whole thing. That's their job. You're making it up. That's their job, right? And so that's hard, right? Like when you're telling your story and somebody keeps telling you, oh, you're a liar, right? And they get, you know, people that knew you before. And even people you thought were friends, you know, might come and attack you. So I think that part's really hard for. Well, and you're questioning, you're questioning yourself. Like, did I get that right? Is that correct? And do you know, I take it back to you as? a little girl really knowing this in your bones, right? Like when mom is not standing up for a multitude of

reasons, no doubt, or, you know, even the people you love are suggesting like just, just a second, like, Arreen, was it, was it that bad? Because we have a lot to lose here. And so, you know, I just, I want to just pause for a second and highlight just what it takes for women, for anybody, humans to get to trial. What it takes for for humans to sort of get to that point. You know, we're not just in it because you know what there's some money here or we could like it is such a remarkable process that I don't think anybody under like this destroy the process itself destroys people because you have to be prepared for not being believed and in fact that's a right litigation doesn't allow any closer to what happened to you right like you the whole time

you're having to retell your story, be questioned about it over and over again. And that process is hard. And so then the question is, why would anybody do that? God, damn it. Right. But I think living with yourself and not saying anything,

you know, when that reaches the level where I can't do that, that's when you do it, right? Same thing with me. I didn't go in a courtroom, but I wrote a book because keeping the silence was worse for me than stepping forward. And I think for women who come forward

and file lawsuits, typically they're not doing it. to start off for themselves, just like I didn't write a book for myself. I did it because I wanted a better relationship with my husband, wanted to be a better mom, you know, to my daughter. You know, now my actions are for me and for myself healing. And similarly for the women that I represent, when they first come into my office, it's not for themselves. It's for, I want to make sure other women don't have to experience this. I don't want him to do this to somebody else. I don't want my daughter to think that I'm not, you know, strong enough to speak out and say anything or that I'm going to

just take this, right? They're doing it for some other reason, but in the end of that process, they are the ones who are better off for it, right? Even though they don't know it when they start. And I think to your point, and I would say that, you know, to anybody who's listening who, you know, has experienced, I mean, one and two, a sexual assault, you've been through the process. What I love so much about your work and what you have sort of set a precedent for in your practice is the fact that the outcome, although we have hinged our own mental health on the outcome for so many people, becomes less and less relevant when the process is so carefully curated, which means there are people on your team, the people who become, you know, meaningful to your clients,

if it only takes one to make somebody feel believed enough, even if in a larger court system, the official document is standing. you know, that we find no fault here. The process in which that occurs, highlighting that other than the end game, I think has been so instrumental in your practice. Can you, can you talk a little bit about that, that process itself? And do you think you've inspired other lawyers, other firms to sort of be much more diligent in this relationship with their clients and the process that it occurs regardless of of outcome. Yeah, I hope so, hence our training and why we do that. But the process, the whole point of the process is for you to know your rights, like for you to know you have a lot of

power, you have a lot of ability, you carry it, and you have the choice. Like, I'm not forcing you to do anything. You're coming to me for advice. I am providing you the advice on what the law says, what your rights are, what you have the power to do or not do. And then you get to make a choice on how you want to proceed, right? So it's giving you the choice every step of the way, giving you the information that you're coming to me for, right? That's my job, right? You're the one standing up for yourself. All I'm doing is helping you because I have knowledge of the law and how the system works. And so the process for us is definitely giving them choices for every stage of the litigation process of which way they want to proceed and making sure they have all the information so they can make

the best decision for themselves. And I would argue that it's how that's done because I think every legal firm does that. I think that's sort of the obligation in the industry. I think it's the obligation in, you know, in my industry, right? I know. I guess maybe. But, you know, I think what I'm most interested in is that can be done in a magnitude of ways. And historically, when it is seen as I'm only here to provide the information on the law side of things,

it is how that's done that can make or break the psyche of a human. And I think that that's the critical piece in all of this for me and why I think the retelling of a story matters. How it's received by other people will not always be the one you, you know, the way you hoped it to be. You know, you referred to. I mean, mom continues to stay silent. And there'll be sometimes where some of those people or the people that we want the most

to get it, don't. and for multitudes of reasons. But when there is somebody in that space that can get it, what that does individually is it allows pieces inside of you to heal. So then you become the cycle breaker. You become the next generation. And I heard you say that so articulately, right? My daughter was the impetus because I wanted her to watch a mom

who could put pieces back together, not do what her grandmother wasn't able to do. and I think the process itself, this is what I just, I hope the legal, I mean, I don't think we're going to live long enough to make a dent in the way that societally we handle things in North America. And it's too exhausting and overwhelming to sort of do that, particularly in the current administration. And so what I think is interesting about that then is like, okay, so then what do we, what can we manage? And your approach, I think, is so refreshing and so. timely and I mean overdue in so many ways what what's the next I mean you talk about your training you talk about sort of your influence in the system what's your hope and dream what's what's next

for you in this process yeah so this year I started a foundation it's called the h ae fired up foundation because same thing it's just I don't want money to be the reason people don't seek help and so the foundation is helping you know individuals um survivors individual survivors individual survivors who want to go to college, start trade school, whatever it might be, to give them some sort of grant or scholarship so they can pursue that dream. And then survivor-led organizations that are doing work on the ground to help survivors be empowered in various ways. And so this was the first year we had our giving. So I just continue wanting to do philanthropic work, right? Like I really want to make the world, you know, better for each individual so they can live their best life. Once you have it,

I do think it's a privilege to be where I'm at. And so I just want to share it, you know, with others. Oh, my God. And I love that capacity to be able to get to a place where you can be philanthropic. And I think about that all the time in my career, right? I think about what it takes for a woman, anybody who's marginalized and intersectionally marginalized,

to be able to rise. And then in one lifetime, be able to even develop and give that back what privilege may be but like brilliance I mean amazingness and I think no doubt the fuel to your continued growth your continued healing would you say like I mean I mean the opening line to you is like you wake up every day with a fervent passion to advocate for women who suffer from sexual abuse harassment and discrimination yeah it is it's all part of the journey right oh man I I love that this, I love you. I am so honored that you would take some time for me. I can't imagine how

proud your family is of you, even the ones who maybe aren't able to articulate it in such a way. But I would just say, listen, everything about Alreen is connected in the show notes, her book, which is like a master class in resilience. And everything, you know, about all of the grants, the H-A-E-Fired-Up Foundation. I'll link all of that for our listeners, for our community, because I'm just so grateful for women like you who can demonstrate to the world just what is possible. Well, thank you.

Thank you for letting me share my story and for having this platform for others. Oh, my gosh. Okay, listen, if you are not ready after this little chat to do something great in the world, all I want you to think about is next best, right kind thing. Sometimes when we have such powerful, amazing people,

were like, oh my gosh, I could never do that, or how would I ever start a foundation? If I take you back to the beginning of Alreen's story, she did the next best right kind thing in a time where there seemed to be no light. And I think this is the only thing any of us have control over is next best right kind thing. So listen, from the bottom of this, Mama's heart, thank you for that. And I will meet you right back here next time. It was an honor. You know, the more we do this, people ask, why do you have to do the acknowledgement? and every episode. I've never been more grateful for being able to raise my babies on the land where so much

sacrifice was made. And I think what's really critical in this process is that the ask is just that we don't forget. So the importance of saying these words at the beginning of every episode will always be of utmost importance to me and this team. So everything that we created here today, for you happened on Treaty 7 land, which is now known as the center part of the province of Alberta. It is home of the Blackfoot Confederacy, which is made up of the Siksika, the Kainai,

the Pekini, the Tatina First Nation, the Stony Nakota First Nation, and the Métis Nation Region 3. Our job, our job as humans, is to simply acknowledge each other. That's how we do better, be better, and stay connected to the good. The Unloanly podcast is produced by three incredible humans, Brian Siever, Taylor McGilvery, and Jeremy Saunders, all of Snack Lab productions. Our executive producer, my favorite human on this planet, is Marty Pillar. Soundtracks were created by Donovan Morgan, Unloney branded artwork created by Elliot Cuss, our big PR shooters, our Desvino and Barry,

Our digital marketing manager is the amazing Shana Haddon. Our 007 secret agent from the Talent Bureau is Jeff Lowness. And emotional support is provided by Asher Grant, Evan Grant, and Olivia Grant. Go live! I am a registered clinical psychologist in Alberta, Canada. The content created and produced in this show is not intended as specific therapeutic advice. The intention of this podcast is to provide information. information resources, education. And the one thing I think we all need the most, a safe place to land in this lonely world. We're all so glad you're here.