Unlonely with Dr. Jody Carrington - How to Be More Relatable When Everyone’s on Edge - Rachel DeAlto

Episode Date: February 19, 2026

If you’re exhausted by the tension - at work, online, even with people you love - this episode is for you.Dr. Jody and Rachel DeAlto talk about what’s driving the empathy dip (and the “why is everyone so mean lately?” vibe), how social media trains us out of critical thinking, and why more options in dating/work/friendship can actually make us choose worse.This is a real-talk episode about rebuilding emotional intelligence, finding your way back to the kind of connection that actually regulates your nervous system, and learning when to dig in and do the work - versus when it’s time to go.Links & Resources:Unlonely with Dr. Jody Carrington (podcast page): https://www.drjodycarrington.com/podcastDr. Jody Carrington (official website): https://www.drjodycarrington.com/Rachel DeAlto (official website): https://www.racheldealto.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, everybody, welcome back. Welcome in another episode of the Unlonelly podcast and you better buckle up. Today, I, I, I'm so interested in this third season of the podcast to bring people to you who really make me think. And I was blown away. I met Rachel Di Alto in a, we were speaking in the same space, sort of almost like competing for a stage in an event where they sort of bring speakers in, yeah, to watch you do your things. And Marty and I both were like,

oh shit, she's good. So you get to meet her today. Rachel DiOto, she is a lawyer, a former attorney. She's past the bar in a couple of different states. She's like super smart and is a communications expert, media personality.

And really, we sort of jam so much in this space of connection and more effectively, you know, what do we do in this disconnected world? You know, she's got a big media background. She's been on national TV and done lots of things in the sort of relationship space. But she's so interesting. Relatable leaders is her first book. Her next book coming out in a couple of years is going to be called The Scene. And so we've had a great laugh about how she still, half stole my title. She didn't. It's completely different and will be brilliant as well. But we talk today a little bit about like how did we get so disconnected?

What are those contributors? We talk a lot about what we do about that and how we can so easily get overwhelmed by all the shit. Like, holy fuck, like this is happening. This is happening. The kids are a disaster. We are blowing up our marriages. We're doing this.

Why hasn't anybody listened to us in so many? How do we take a breath and get back to what we were built for in this human? human race with, which is really, we were never meant to do any of this alone. So come in to our little conversation. It really is just Rachel and I having coffee talking about all the problems of the world. And we're just so happy that you get to be a part of it. Enjoy. Okay, out of the gate, Rachel Di Alto, one of the smartest women I've been able to sort of spend some time with lately. And I love, not like there's a lot of dumb people in the world, but actually I think there is. So I, I'm so refreshed by your insights and your, so like, let's come out of the gate hot.

What talk to me about one of the things you're seeing. We spent a lot of time in the same places speaking to the same groups of people, organizations, companies wanting to be better, do better. You're a former attorney. You're brilliant. You come into organizations and talk about relatability. You talk about that word that is like, okay, so, so why are people more assholy, is it true that people are more asshole-ish these days?

Yes. And what do we do about it? Go. Go. Oh, let's solve this all. I think together we can totally solve this. Although now I feel like you set the bar too high. I was like, please don't call me smart.

It depends on the day. Oh, I know. I hate that too. I'm always like, can you just start low and then we'll let the people decide? Yeah. You're like, she's good hair today. That's a solid start. But, you know, I do believe, and it's funny, we could go into a whole other topic of

conversation. But the world as a whole has definitely become so much more confrontational, so much empathetic, so much less emotionally intelligent, almost by design. And, you know, I think that's where what we talk about comes in and actually gets people to re-center to what they are supposed to be as human beings. Okay. Because at the core of who we are, at the core of everything that we know and everything that's instilled in us from, you know, histories of DNA is not meant to be this way. It is actually meant to get along. It's meant to connect and collaborate and and have conversations. conversation. And so I think sometimes when we come in and we talk about things, it's almost like

it's re-sparking something that went out. Yeah. That is in the bones. Isn't this true? And I always say this, you know, I don't think we've lost our ability to be great. We've lost access to it. Yeah. And I love how you sort of speak about that. And so why do you think we're here? What is contributed in your opinion? I mean, you're in the United States of America. You get this beautiful. What is, I mean, take us back to the brass tax. What is contributed? I mean, if we were to sort of like orchestrate it, because I'm really interested in deconstructing this, if we're going to reverse engineer how we got here, which I think is the simplest way to sort of understand it,

how, what are the pieces that have sort of come together to create this seemingly explosion of a mental health crisis, a loneliness epidemic, all these things? You know, it's funny. I don't sit, I don't often sit around and think about this. But when I do, I think it's really, to me, there's two big things that have happened in the last probably 50 years. And one of them is obviously geopolitical crises and just shifts in terms of, especially from a United States perspective of how we do politics, how we show up. The conversations that we have have completely changed. I think there's been a degradation of kindness. and then you take that, so this entire structure of really what we've all been built upon

in the last centuries, and then you add social media. And then you, because social media is still something so new. I think about that all the time, how wild it is that, you know, I didn't have social media in high school. I didn't have social media in college. I didn't have social media until I was already a parent and married and in kind of a more stable mindset and now we've decided that it's a good idea to put everything out there to compare ourselves to each other to allow access to one another in a way that we never had before

and in such a negative way you know because what we see in a regular basis and and i did my my thesis masters was a for my master's was on social media effects uh especially for teens and it was heartbreaking and tragic and terrifying as a parent. Tell me more about that. So what I found is, is in most of the analysis is that it wasn't necessarily that social media was bad. It was the level of of weight that we put on social media that was bad. It was, it wasn't even time. You could spend all day, every day. I do spend quite a bit of time scrolling TikTok. I watch a lot of puppy videos. But my input it is very much, it's tempered, you know, I'm not, I'm not taking my value from it. And yet they found that any time that a teen was placing their value into the hands of others and placing value into

what was happening on social media, which happens pretty much all the time, that's when everything fell apart. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so with respect to sort of then that's showing up in organizations, in women, like what, women, like in humans, um, this sort of geopolitical demise, add in social media that sort of can bust it all apart. Yeah. And like I think what I think a lot about is access to really uneducated, unsupported opinions that are just so virally available all the time. Like so whether we speak about like being a young mom, you know, you're breastfeeding

in the middle of the night. Okay. When I breastfed in the middle of the night, I had no access to opinions, right? Zero. And, you know, in 2010, even though the introduction of the smartphone was 2000. and six, I don't remember like there was no opportunity to scroll in one of my most vulnerable times. Now, when you're in this position, you have access to 47 million opinions that largely, the vast

majority are very uneducated, personal opinions given by humans dressed in cream that have filtered significantly the way in which they portray themselves, you know, and say stupid shit like you know did you have a dolphin assisted pool birth and like you know if if you if you don't rub lavender oil i miss that oh god i know me too there was no fucking dolphins in that situation i'll tell you that for free but then pina would come for you and be like a good god i know i know it'll be terrible it'll be terrible but i think that that's you know that that's part of my concern right is that like you're right social media is not social it's it's very directed on what you believe and you can solidify and deepen your belief because you cut everybody

else out. So it appears as though everybody is on your same political stance or, you know, or exposure to other people's experiences are very, very limited. Yeah. And there's no critical thinking around it. And that's really, we accept what the algorithm gives us. And then we seek out to to reinforce whatever idea that we had without actually, viewing anything beyond ourselves. And it's an interesting thing, too, because even what you're just saying about how moms have, you know, so much access to all these opinions, we seek out things that hurt our feelings. We actually seek out ways to damage our self-esteem and our connections. And so that's another fascinating element that I find with, especially the social media aspect

of things. It's like, wait a say, you are hurting your own feelings. Why the fuck do we do that? Like because, I mean, it reminds me of this, right? Where it's like misery loves miserable company. Yeah. Is this true? It's masochism. Yeah. And I think, and it's interesting too because it's not even always miserable people.

And you know what? Here's a question. I'm going to ask you this because I don't have the answer to it. Again, I do enjoy TikTok. I am 100% a consumer of it. I try to be as educated as possible and aware as possible as I'm scrolling of what I'm being fed. And I do end up listening to people's stories. And these oftentimes are people who seem rational and intelligent people who are sharing the most

personal, bizarre aspects of their life because that's the attention that they're looking to get. And I'm like, how did we get here? How do we get here? This does not belong here. People don't deserve this access to you. And I know you talk about authenticity and vulnerability in the same ways that I do. And I'm like, this is not authentic. This is not vulnerable.

This is feeding an aspect of you. that is not helping you become the best version of yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think where that comes from, if we were to like distill it down to something, is that two things, you know, we're wired for connection. Neurophysiologically,

that's we're not going to, like, no matter how good we get at the AI, authentic interaction, we're not going to automate relationship. Okay? And now people will, you know, come at me all the time about like, oh, what about, what about what about?

The neurochemical responses to how, that happens to a bot suggesting you, do something or when you're in therapy with a bot is relentlessly different that if you're in the same room as another human. Okay. So what I think is so critical in this next season is really understanding the neurochemistry behind what happens to us as humans. Not that we can sort of facilitate a quick, a quick fast response. Like that's all going to be easy in terms of chat, GBT and like, you know, searching something. Give me six videos on this. Give me five how to. Awesome. What we miss in that process is the thing that makes us unique as a species and that makes us very much more alike

than we are different. Our DNA as human beings is 99.98% the same, okay? Right? You know this. Twins right now. Yeah, basically. And the idea is, is that we need in order to be at our best somebody to bring us back home, somebody, not something that will just agree with us and support us and take some of the data that we pump into an algorithm and then create something that just makes feel good in the moment, it is that sense of relationship and connection. And so when I think about, you know, your work around, I mean, okay, I want to just take this personal for a little bit. Okay. So you are, you've lived a hundred lifetimes in this one amazing body. And can you take us through that a little bit? Because I think as we talk about relatability and vulnerability,

you've learned some of these lessons the hard way, really taking on a, you. into a profession that was largely male dominated for a very long time. You have navigated relationships and parenting and co-parenting and all those things. Can you take me back to the beginning? Oh my gosh, birth? All right. So I was a 10-town baby. Yes.

Oh, that doesn't surprise me. I showed up large and in charge in this world. So we probably don't need to cover all of that. Although, you know, it is funny in so many of my keynotes and in a lot of my books and and writings, I do talk a lot about my childhood because I was that kid who was completely isolated. I was the loneliest kid, you know, I was a bit of a know-it-all, I was socially awkward, and I tell stories where I was eating lunch with my teacher in the sixth grade because I had no one, no one to be with. And thankfully that did change. We switched schools. My parents were pro, you know,

proactive enough to make sure like, okay, this, this, we need to get out of the environment. And I was able to shift and very thankful for that. Yeah. And I was able to find, find those people and acclimate in a different way. And so that was fantastic. But, you know, you take so much of that with you. And I was choking around with you how I took two bar exams. I only really got licensed in New Jersey, but I took a New York bar exam because I was always trying to prove to myself that I was worthy. I was always trying to prove to myself that I was capable, which is probably why I became a lawyer. You know, I wanted to say, what is, what's the pinnacle? What's the top of the chart, you know, and how do I prove?

to myself and other people that I'm intelligent or, again, you know, worthy of whatever it is coming my way. And that's probably also why I ended up married very young and to the wrong person. And I was a single mom and, you know, just all of these experiences that have evolved into helping me to always stay humble and empathetic. Because I'm like, yeah, there's a trend on a TikTok or it's like you don't know ball. And I was like, people think I don't know ball. I know ball. Yes. I have done this. I've been in those shoes. And I think, you know, it's allowed me to come on the other side and say we can do better. Yes. And you don't have to suffer through this. Yeah. Yeah. And that's an interesting thing. You don't have to suffer through it because I think I also

think that like the chaos is necessary to learn the calm. Sure. And I think we're in this place right now. your credibility on a stage speaks to, you know, doing a law degree while it's pregnant, navigating a relationship that you knew wasn't going to be successful, reengaging and reentering into this place, right? Like none of that was a mistake in my opinion, you know? And so I think often, you know, we're like, we want to make this easier for people, but I also don't. I also, I'm like, I want to give you a place to land when it gets hard, not to try to protect

you from it. because this is, I think part of the issue we sort of say as parents, in particular and as women, like, okay, I just want to make it easier. Fuck that. No, you actually are going to need to get your soul ripped out. You may choose the wrong person. You may be with somebody who you're going to grow differently from. What I'm most interested in, and I love your opinion on this,

is the difference between when to stay and when to go. And I think this idea of, like, I'm so fascinated right now on the ease with which we can choose the breadth of relationship. Changing careers, changing partnerships, getting a new husband, trying to find a new employee, getting this illusion of choice, right, is so massive. Now, I have seen many marriages that should not stay together. And I've seen many that I'm so interested, particularly in the last decade, about what is it going to take when we have the illusion of so many things that could be better, do better,

you know, what does that do to our worthiness? I mean, we struggled with that from the fucking beginning as two white women, right? Now what? Now, when there's so much to compare it to, there's so many people around this land that we have so much access to. And it's like, again, I'll just tell you this piece because it's amazing to me. The tall girl problem is fascinating to me, particularly as women, which means the the taller you are, the smarter you are, the less opportunity you have to choose a partner. okay because you're shortening the window of experience so if i get single at 50 for example

my husband has let my ex-husband then in this scenario he's in the kitchen right now so he's probably like what the fuck are you talking about but his window is he doesn't have the tall girl problem he can date somebody who's 30 and the people are like fucking rights look at you go yeah bill bill if i brought jesus fuck if i brought home a former texasanel Meg, he used to play in the bigs, you know what I mean? He's 30 and fuck, he can throw a ball. Like what? That is not, you know, so there's going to be.

He's not get the same reception, my love. You know what I'm talking about. So I'm so interested in the projection of the future for our daughters, for this, for our sons, for this concept of business development and relationship. I mean, there's so many questions in there, Rachel, you just take that whatever fucking direction you want. But tell me all the things. I'm like, I don't know.

It's a whole thing. Because, so I have a 15-year-old daughter. And I was talking about this the other day. I was like, they are different. They are built different. Like, no one in her group has ever questioned the way they looked or their value of how they show up. Like, listen, they still have things that they work through.

And she's got some social stuff that, you know, friends and girls are mean sometimes. But like, the perspective, like, I'm like, I hated myself for like 30 years. She is loving herself. And I'm like, that's freaking amazing. And it's also going to change the way that she chooses. And then you mix that in with the fact that we do have accessibility, because that's really what we're talking about, right? Like you didn't have access to that Texas A&M player because you're in Canada.

He's down in Texas. He's not on Facebook because it didn't exist. And then all of a sudden it's like the world is opened. And so opportunities are opened. And then we get into that analysis paralysis, or we just think that we can constantly choose bigger, better, more successful, sexier, more attracted, whatever it is. Like, there's always something more. And, you know, it's interesting, some of my favorite studies are about is that analysis

paralysis and just how choice makes us dumber. Like, when we have more options, we choose poorly because we think there's always more to come. And that is my biggest fear of all of society is like because we have everything right here at our fingertips and because I constantly am like, oh my gosh, there's just another person out there. And whether it is for work or for love, that I can constantly be upgrading versus there's some beauty within the relationships that you already have. And you got to do the work. Well, and relationships will be the hardest thing we will ever do. So that's not going to change. Okay. And they're only going to get harder, I think. And the fact that at the bottom line of

this, we're still neurobiologically wired for connection. Okay. So I don't care how great or fast or efficient we're going to get at the at the connection, the AI space. I'm fascinated by it. You need to stay, you know, ahead of it in business and organizations, even within your own system. But I'm most interested in those conversations where we talk about really having those deep conversations around the depth of relationship. Because one of my favorite psychologist said this, Esther Perel, I love this line. She said, you can have a thousand friends on Facebook and nobody to take you to the airport.

Yep. And that always hits home for me. When my dad died, I didn't want, you know, I think about how many people we see on the road. I mean, you and I speak hundreds of times, you know, within a couple of years span and we see people and meet people and, you know, people see us on stage or have conversations about it. And they're like, oh my God, you're so smart. You're so like, whatever. And it's so easy to get the breadth of relationship, you know, because you're getting

accolades or you also get kicked in the vagina many times. But let's not talk about that right now. But it's the idea that there's so many opportunities out there, which really makes my husband of 18 years look less and less sexy as he, you know, blows his nose like this and like, you know, is like, it doesn't, is fucking mean to our children sometimes. Like, oh, my God. There's got to be so many better. And like, to your point, I think about this all the time.

Like when my mom had to choose to. find a husband or like, you know, you had in small town biking Alberta, I got two choices. Like the Jones boy up the road. He's kind of fat, but he could put up to that one. Yeah. And then like the Lawson kid, you know what I mean? Like he could pay, he was dumb. And then where were you going? Where are you going after? Make it work. And there might be something in between those two. There is. And I don't want to romanticize history because I think, I think also then people are like, you don't understand now. We fought so hard for women to get freedom of choice. And we're in this middle phase, I think, and this is why it's going to be a struggle in this next generation,

because we've provided so much freedom and there's no role clarity. We love as humans predictability. We love as humans some sense of safety and connection that regulates our nervous system well. And we've now opened up this world to this beautiful possibilities of freedom, which is you can do anything. You know, we are way or more like than we are different. Race is a social construct. Gender identity is a social construct. Like, are you fucking kidding me?

We need each other. need smart, young, innovative tech people and we need deep understanding of how you play, how you seal a deal with a handshake. And we have all of those things in the world right now. And divisiveness in the way that we operate is only going to make things worse because we need both, both and. And it replicates in so many things because the system of patriarchy. Like feminism isn't a ma-misogynistic. It's not like all the penises are bad. No, no. It's a system that is said for a very long time, one group of humans need to suck it up and handle all the tough stuff. And the other group of women or of humans need to be soft and gentle.

We need both, particularly in a time where we've never been more disconnected, right? That's the purpose of feminism for me. And so my question to you is when you step into organizations, when you sort of start to do your consultative work, where do you start? Where, what becomes one of the most important conversations that we have to sort of take it back to these days? Because many people do what we just did, which is like, holy fuck. Then there's this kids are going to die. Nobody's got everything. There's no hope for the future. How do we take it back? Where do you start? Yeah. Ooh, no, I go right there. Just go home. There's no hope. I'm a big fan of like, okay, what's working, what's not working? Like, I'm a very, I'm a practical person.

at the end of the day. And I love big theories and ideas, but I want to understand, you know, what's broken? I've always found it. I almost use the word enjoyable. But the most interesting to me is like, what is the most broken part of you? What is the most fraid? What is the most fractured? Where are the biggest problems? You know, where are you having the most conflict? And then try to figure out what's behind that. And what happens is, and you know, the answer to is every time I get to that answer of like, this is what's really messed up in our organization or this is where we have the biggest problems, it's because people aren't seeing one another. They're not understanding one another.

You know, I am, there is no one that you wouldn't love if you didn't know their story. Like I fully believe that and yet we're not getting to the stories because it's not efficient to get to the stories. Some of my favorite events are ones that I come in and they'll ask me for help on programming the entire event, the agenda. And I'm like, we're going to make. make space. Like we just need space because if we're not, if we're just sitting there talking to each other or listening to people, we're not actually having conversations. We're not getting to

know each other. Like for networking you mean and conversation. I see that's what you need for space. Conversation, workshopping, but even just fun, you know, or or some sort of group project, things like that where all of a sudden you're seeing we're in this together versus I'm here because I have to be here. I'm here because I have to sit in the session, watch, you know, this, this woman Dr. Jody, who's freaking brilliant, but I don't want to be here anyway. And so, you know, it's figuring out how do we bring people back to each other? Because that's the root of all of it. So I'm always like, what's on fire? And tell me about how bad it's burning and tell me about who's throwing the gasoline on it. And then let's peel it back and figure out like what we're

missing here. Yeah. And if I can just break that down a little bit, I think why that's so critically important. You just demonstrated what I think is, is the mistake that many people make is they try to jump in and fix it first because there's such a buildup of, you know, as we were just having that conversation, oh my God, what about our kids? What about our daughters? What about our sons? What about, okay, should I be connecting more to people? Holy fuck, I'm screwing my kids up. I got we're going to, nobody needs a phone. It's over. Okay. Just a second. Just a second. And I think, I think there needs to be time for that first, right? We need to sort of lay it out on the line. We need to feel seen first. This is how overwhelmed.

and burnt out and disconnected we feel in this company, this family, this relationship. Every single one of those experiences are parallel for me. And I say this in every talk. I speak to such a diverse group of industries. I've done therapy with, you know, police officers, farmers, and, you know, kids who've just been apprehended. The process doesn't change because there's almost a three-part process for me. It is that like sort of collecting of all of the emotion.

how terrible and scared and disconnected we become, then that's where you feel seen. That's where you then regulate. When somebody is acknowledged, when they feel seen, they regulate. Then we have access to everything we need to do to rebuild. Because I have access to the best parts of humans then. And if I just take all of the angst and jump straight to the,

here's the three things I need you to do. Here's the four strategies. Have you tried this? You know, then you get, yes, then you further perpetuate. Yes. And you get, if you hear this phrase, yes, but. If you hear people say, we've already tried that. You're not listening to me.

That is not what I said, okay? Those times for me, and I've seen you do this in your keynote, are then the moments where it's like, okay, we need to step back. And this is not new. I mean, Stephen Covey said this. He stole it from the Bible. seek first to understand before being understood, right? Which is really the epitome of relatability.

Is this true? Yeah, absolutely. Tell me more about that process and how why, I mean, why is this so hard for us to do this? Well, I think it's hard because it, well, it requires effort. It requires intentionality. And I'm not saying that we're all inherently lazy or that we don't want it. I think a lot of it's subconscious. I believe that, you know, it takes a minute to reroute ourselves.

It takes a minute to stop being on autopilot and having these, you know, baseline conversations and connections and relationships and say, I want to do better. And that's where, you know, the rubber hits the road is because it actually takes intentionality. And there's a lot of people that don't want to do it. Or, and I'm going to take this, you know, from them too, is some people don't have the capacity. Sometimes they're in survival mode. They're in, you know, burnout. And they don't have any extra energy because that's what related ability requires.

It requires your energy and your intention. And some people don't have access to that because they haven't been taken care of themselves. Amen. So this is, that is so critically important right now is that we haven't, the vast majority of us. I mean, some people are just assholes, okay, so I'll give you that. But some, but the vast majority, I've meant very few, to be honest. in this noisy, busy world, so many of us start our day before we even pee on our phones. And our cortisol, even from a neurochemistry chemical perspective, is through the roof.

Before we even step into our first online meeting or into our car to go to work, all of those things are happening so quickly. And so we're losing access to the best parts of us, not our ability, yeah? and relatability for me is such a superpower. It is such a calling card in this very lonely, overwhelming world. And so to your point, you can't be relatable unless you look after yourself first. And I think we've known that in this industry of mental health, mental wellness for a very long time, but it's been bastardized with a complete and utter movement called self-care. self-care does not work if you're doing it in a dysregulated body.

You can drink all the kale you want. You can do all the yoga. You could crossfit the shit out of anything. And if you're cross-fitting, Rich is a big cross-fitter. If you are cross-fitting and you're mad the whole time, your box jumping and you're lifting your weights and you're like, fuck you, fuck you. That is not good for your neurochemistry.

I need to put that somewhere, right, to regulate. light emotion. Tell me more about that. Like why sort of looking after us is sort of the key to serving our customers, our clients, even our partners well. Yeah. Well, you know, it's interesting. It's not something I typically, I don't always call it out depending on the keynote, but it's really that self-awareness and that reflection requires that self-regulation. And so, you know, you can't be aware of what's happening within you if you don't take that beat. If you don't have that moment and you're not trying to box it up or compartmentalize or cross-fitted away. And that's really what requires, you know, what is required to do the things that make you relatable. I think some people are very

naturally relatable. I think that it becomes easier for some people, but it's those people who are very centered in themselves. They're very centered in their body. They are regulated. They're aware of their emotions. It doesn't mean they don't have them, but they know of how they're showing up. And they're conscious of that. And I don't even know if I'm answering your question at this point because I'm all like on a tangent in my head. But I just think about it as like the most relatable people at the end of the day are probably the most grounded because they're the ones who are willing to be authentic

because they're grounded in who they are. They're the ones who are focused on communicative and intention setting in their connections because they're capable of that. And related. So then that makes sense to me. Relatability is a privilege. Yeah. Because somebody has had to show you how to do that.

So if I think about, you know, again, I'm interested. Like, is there a personality component to this? Is there, my guess would be that, yes, like, temperament plays into all of these things. You know, as humans, it's not just, you know, we're not solely based on our experience. But I'm, I'm so interested in if you've had a leader, a parent, a grandparent, a hockey coach, a football coach that is part of your village that had the beautiful opportunity to say to you things like, okay, okay, okay, come here, come here. No, no, no, no, no. Try this again. Let's do it again. And I think, you know, to our earlier sort of conversation is that the chaos, the deconstruction,

the overwhelming things that happened to us in our lives are not nearly as important as who we had alongside us when they happened. And you become more and more relatable if you understand that walking people through hard things is one of the greatest gifts you can do as a leader. Because that's how we create the next leaders is we show them. You can't tell them. And what if you don't have that relatabilityness? What if, what if you have just sort of survived sheer grid and you're just going to start to, I was going to say Donald Trumpet, but like, If you're just going to like fire everybody, you're just going to like, you know, many of us have been raised in this system of like take no shit. You keep your guard up.

You don't let anybody in. You just fire them. You just block and bless. Where does that leave us at the end of the day? Why is that? A, it's effective sometimes for sure. Why is it problematic in the long term? All I was stuck on is if you Donald.

trumpet. I'm like, well, it's, it's a little problematic. It's, you know, it's an interesting thing. And backing up to what you were just talking about before is, you know, some people don't feel like they, they have the capabilities or that it's not, you know, is this, is this something in a personality? One, it is problematic because if, if you don't get to the point where you start to relate and connect to people, then you are going to avoid part of what your soul's calling is to do, which is to build relationships and build connections. I'm, I am pretty sure. or that the people who are DTing it out there are probably pretty lonely. And so maybe they should listen to the Unloney podcast, just a thought.

But I also, like when people are listening to this and they think, wow, I don't know, one, I don't know that I have the capability of becoming relatable or I don't know if I have it in me right now or maybe this just feels like something too far to go is I truly believe that that relatability is a state that turns into a trait. And so it's like you are, you are in a state. And that takes conscious awareness. It takes that self-care. It takes that self-awareness, emotional regulation.

And then that can become a part of you. It becomes a more regular a part of who you are and how you show up on a daily basis. And so I would hope that the people that might not be aware of, you know, they're not relatable. And they want to just fire their way through things, eventually get to that bottom, a breaking point that says, I need to do things differently, and then realize in that moment that they can state their way to relatability. And even if you are in a place where you feel like you are in survival mode or you're stressed out and you can't even think about doing one more thing, like pick one thing of it and make that a state for that moment and then shift.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. I think there's such a spectrum to relatability, to connection to all of those things. Yeah. I love that. And so what I hear you say is that it's practice. And I often say this. You know, I think we get overwhelmed by the magnitude of like, okay, well, if nobody's ever done it for me, how can I give it away? Am I messing up my kids?

Okay, so then how did I even get in this position of leadership if I'm not good at these things? Okay, just this is where it becomes so helpful to slow it down. And I often say that it's like our only responsibility is the next best right kind thing. and if you can do that for me, you're going to build a successful company. You are going to start to attract people who want to work for you, who want to skate through walls for you, who want to understand that our passion comes in the service of other people. But if you are not feeling regulated in your own self, it's going to be almost impossible

to give that away. And if I take this to this sort of extreme, you know, when you just hear you. hear the words cancer in your family system, when you're getting chased by a cougar, if, you know, your clothes are on fire. I, you don't, you shouldn't worry about other people, right? Like, they agree. You actually have nothing to give away in that moment, right? Your physical safety matters first.

Your emotional safety is paramount in these moments. And you shouldn't be able to, to worry about other people. Generally speaking, as a society, I feel like we're sort of in this place where many of us feel was, though, we're being chased by a bear or a cougar. And so it means then that our access to relatability has been thwarted, which makes sense if we were actually being chased by a bear or a cougar. But the inundation of data that we get every single day at any given moment, I mean, right now I didn't put my watch on deliberately because I need to stay focused to you.

If I have a notification on my watch that says, you know, my brother says to me, Joe, can you call me right now? it becomes very difficult for me to stay connected in this in this opportunity and we have access to those things everywhere my phone is not very far and I can hear it buzz you know in this conversation so you're going to lose a piece of me email notifications while we're doing an online conversation come up and we notice it and we see it and so we get lost in a conversation this I think is the thing that we're up against the most right access relatability kindness empathy is predicated on our own to practice the discipline of reconnecting here, right? And so what do you, what do you suggest in that

way? How do we, if we were to really put ourselves first in this situation, but, you know, it sounds so cliche because we were like, oh, fuck, put yourself first. But like, what do we mean by that? Like, what do you mean by that? Well, you know, it's actually fascinating what we're seeing happen in terms of the research around this and the watches. And for, for decades, They've been saying, you know, that our cognitive ability declines and just our cognition in general whenever we have electronics around us when we have those distractions. But they're actually seeing for the younger generations, for the Gen Zs, for the Gen Alpha. I was like, who are they again?

Yeah, Gen Alpha is coming up. They're not as distracted. They're not as affected by it. We are literally being conditioned to become immune to some of the things. And in some ways, I'm like, well, that's kind of good. because maybe that survival instinct, maybe that stressor kind of tempers down. Like, God, it's a horrible thing to mention. But we have so many mass casualties, mass shootings that have happened in the United States.

And when it first happened, the world shut down, you know, everything. And it's a horrible recognition that it's just part of the news cycle now. Yeah. And that is where it makes me really sad to think about is like there's, there is a benefit to us becoming immune to all of the distractions to all of the stressors. Like we are we are toughening up in ways that we never thought we would have to. But I think it actually is probably going to release some of those reserves to then be able to focus on other things.

And like, is that a benefit? I don't know. Yeah. And again, does it work in the moment? And then what is the cost to that? No, that's not like it's horrible. And yet that's the reality of it is. that we're not going to feel this same level of stress forever.

And so part of me is like, okay, well, then we get to then refocus and repractice and re-dive into the things that matter. But it really is. It's an interesting thing when you really peel it back of understanding that when you ask people to connect, when you ask people to trust, when you want them to build those relationships, it's a lift. Yeah. It's a lift.

Yeah. And it's worth it. But like that has to, that comes with a price as well. well. Yes, yes. And I think that's the point. It is, it is the easier of the two paths is to not. The easier of the two paths is to stay at home and order all of your food, uh, on Uber eats to get all of your things delivered by Amazon. Going out into a grocery store with your children is a right of passage because you're now navigating all the things, right? The people, the lack of produce, the meltdown, all of those kind of things, which are necessary components

of making us human. And as I think what we're talking about is that it does take practice to get good at relatability and empathy and kindness, exposure to other people. You know, you sort of said this, people are hard to hate close up. And the more we get overwhelmed, the more we're going to become introverted and isolated. And so the reverse engineer to that is now that, you know, you've heard this conversation and, you know, we're having more and more. I think this is our purpose, Rach, on stages is to really sort of draw a connection to this piece of our responsibility in organizations. Our responsibility as humans in this human race is to be able to regulate as much as we possibly can so that we can stay connected. And it is such a challenge. It is such a challenge

that I'm so fucking excited for, mostly because the bar is so low. Huh? You want to be great in this world right now you'd actually don't even have to do much okay you just need to stop bitching about it's everybody else's problem no it fucking isn't you take responsibility and suddenly you're going to be better and healthier and attract more exciting people than you ever have in your life i just i just i see it is so fun as so easy and be like is it really that easy and i was like you know like it's remarkably how much people pay me to come into their organization to just say basically this don't be a dick like isn't that a summary That's a summary.

That's a good summary statement, isn't it? Isn't that what we're saying? I actually said that on national television ones. I love that. Because, I mean, here's the cool thing about you. Like, you have appeared on TV. For instance, married at first sight and Kate and date. Like, how do you, like, do you do lots of TV shit, right?

I did. I used to do a lot of TV shit. Really? Was Larry Harder? Come on. Oh, she's delightful. But yeah, I did a, I did TV for about 10 years. And then I recognized, it was actually last year I had, I was doing a pilot out in L.A.

For a show on blending families because I was getting out of, I didn't want to do romantic relationships. I was like, it's so much drama. It's just not where I feel like my calling lies. And so I let a lot of those go, but they came up with this, there was a project about blending families. It was going to be for ABC prime time. And I was like, can't turn that down. Yeah. And I'm in L.A. and I'm shooting this pilot. And I'm like, I don't belong here. Like, I don't, I don't, I don't want to do this. This doesn't, this is not, this is not my purpose or my passion. And I, I'm so grateful for the opportunities that I had had before because they are part of the reason why my platform was able to build. Yeah. But then it was kind of like, let me bless you and say thank you and move on from you. Yeah. And what was it that just didn't fit? You know, this is not going to be surprising for anybody, but TV is about

You know, they want to create drama. And to me, the family unit is so precious and children are so precious. And there is nothing that I would ever do to get in the way of the health and well-being of children. And so any time that there's drama associated with families, not for me. I'm out. I'm out. Yeah. I love that. And I think it's like, again, you know, just sort of resonating everything that you so authentically say on stage, which is like the relatability comes back to how do we really stand with and buy the things that we believe in our values and our morals deeply. And there's a lot of conversation, I think, you know, coming back to really, what are our values? What, you know, what are our morals? And it felt so like exhaustive at one point, you know,

building a company really like, what is your mission statement and your value statement? People just make that shit up and put it on a wall and don't believe it. But I think there is really this sort of resurgence of a conversation that is necessary about coming back to the core, coming back to sort of what do I believe in? What do I stand for? And I think to your point, when we enter into organizations, many of them know it, but have lost access to it.

And so when you can sort of sit in a room and just be like, okay, just a second, who are the most important people we work for? Is it the ones we go home to? Yeah. Okay. So let's center in that and figure out how we can serve these people in a place that leaves us not burnt out or overwhelmed and exhausted because we're not that good. You can't single-handedly undo political leaders that, you know, don't align or appear to be making,

you know, interesting choices or, you know, even in your own organization, okay, he's a crotchy old son of a bitch and doesn't get da-da-da-da-da. Okay. So is that going to debilitate them what I do in terms of the next best right kind thing? How do we create a movement? You know, it is so slow and deliberate. it. And one of the things that has really sort of become a part of what I think in, you know, my way of operating is two words come together. And I, and they sound like this, relentlessly audacious.

Love it. And I think that that is so critically important because it's not going to be easy in any organization, any company to sort of stay in a place of authenticity or even relatability. It shouldn't be easy. And it should be hard. And you will step in and out of it all the time. Is this true? Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, as you were speaking to, I was thinking about just how cyclical it all is as well.

And we've talked about kind of how difficult it is and how burnt out and how stressed out and how survival mode is, it precludes us from showing up in the ways that we want to at times. However, the cycle of connection actually supports all of that. Like it actually heals so much of it. And that's, I think, you know, I think I just had a full circle moment because, You know, as we're talking, I was like, man, I'm asking a lot of people. And I'm like, no, I am. I absolutely am. But I'm also giving them the opportunity to heal so much of themselves through what they can do and how they can show up. Yes, yes. And that's the point, right? Is that like it really is a multiple step process of getting it all out there, going deep into this process that makes us all humans and then asking a lot of them, when you're in a position of privilege, if you are regulated in any capacity and you're leading a, company, you're managing people, you're a supervisor in any, any realm. That is a position of

privilege. And your privilege in that way, you got hired because at some level you have the ability to regulate emotion, to be relatable, to be, uh, kind. There's some access to that there. Our biggest job is to keep giving you as many opportunities as we can to give you access to that so that you can give it away. And, and I think it's like, it's interesting to me, you know, as a psychologist, I think about you sort of practicing law as I practice psychology, you know, seeing one person at a time filled my soul for a very long period of time. And this speaking platform has allowed me to think about it on such a larger level, is that if I can collect a group of humans in an hour keynote and inspire them to be more relatable and kind and empathic,

not to, you know, tolerate bullshit. You don't need to do that. That's what I'm saying. But you've got to be kind first. And then you don't tolerate bullshit in that order. So this resurgence of that on the, you know, the stages that we get to speak to, you know, the groups of, you know, people that bring us in, that's really the point to do this on a much larger scale so that you can do that in your family system, in your community as your soccer coach, as like the roles in which we play are infinite, but there've never been more important to show up because we've never been, we've never been this disconnected. Amen. Amen, girl. Okay. So coming up next, we have a book coming out called Scene. And it's so funny because of, as you know, I wrote a book called Feeling Scene. And then Rachel puts this proposal together to write a book called Scene, to write a book called Seen. And which I really just think outlines the fact that we are the same. We need. And for the record, I went on, first thing you do, when you come up with a book title, you go on Amazon. You search it up. And you're like, oh. And actually, it's interesting too. One of my other friends, Jen Gottlieb, she wrote.

wrote B scene, but it was more about visibility and from a publicity lens and just being yourself and stuff. Jody's never came up. And then I sent my proposal to a friend. She's like, well, you know Jody's book? And I was like, no. Turns out you have to click it to Canada, which is discrimination, by the way. Yes, I know.

I have a bone to pick. And then I read it and I was like, oh my gosh, brilliant. Obviously brilliant. I love the way you approach emotional regulation, just make it so palatable and easy to to understand and absorb. And then I was lucky enough at that point. I was like, okay, we are same words, same lens, different approaches, all wanting to get us to the same place just on, you know, it's, I think of us as like lanes on a highway.

Yeah. And so we're all going in the same direction just in a different lane. And I'm super excited about that. But that one's not coming out to like 27. Girl, I'm tired. I know. We were just talking about that because we're in the same place where our next book and I was like I really like I really want it to be written. I really really I like when I have a new

book and we can go on tour we can talk about it and other things like I I just want to get there but the writing of it is so exhausting sometimes because you you're so I'm so committed to getting it right and I and I and I overthink so many things and I'm like should I say it like this is this what I mean? No it doesn't who said this before how do we orchestrate this in a way like holy Christ um so anyway I can't wait. I can't wait. Right now, relatable leaders is wildly available. And I'm just so excited to see what you do. It's just, it's such an honor to be in the same circle as you, to learn from you. And yeah, thank you. Thank you for sharing all your wisdom to this beautiful community. I know they're going to appreciate very much. Very, very much. Thank you for having me. You are just an incredible

human being and I just am happy to be in your orbit as well. Oh, look at us. Okay, everybody. Hang on to each other. Lean in, lean on. And I'll meet you right back here next time. I already can't wait. You know, the more we do this, people ask, why do you have to do the acknowledgement and every episode? I got to tell you, I've never been more grateful for being able to raise my babies on

a land where so much sacrifice was made. And I think what's really critical in this process is that the ask is just that we don't forget. So the importance of saying these words at the beginning of every episode will always be of utmost importance to me and this team. So everything that we created here today for you happened on Treaty 7 land, which is now known as the center part of the province of Alberta. It is home of the Blackfoot Confederacy, which is made up of the Sikika, the Kainai, the Pekini, the Titina First Nation, the Stony-Nakota First Nation, and the Métis Nation Region 3. Our job, our job as humans, is to simply acknowledge each other. That's how we do better, be better, and stay connected to the good.

The Unloney podcast is produced by three incredible humans, Brian Seaver, Taylor McGilvery, and Jeremy Saunders, all of Snack Lab productions. Our executive producer, my favorite human on this planet, is Marty Pillar. Soundtracks were created by Donovan Morgan, Unloney Branded artwork created by Elliot Cuss. Our big PR shooters are Desvinoe and Barry Cohen. Our digital marketing manager is the amazing Shana Haddon. Our 007 secret agent from the Talent Bureau is Jeff Lowness.

And emotional support is provided by Asher Grant, Evan Grant, and Olivia Grant. Go live! I am a registered clinical psychologist in Alberta, Canada. The content created and produced in this show is not intended as specific therapeutic advice. The intention of this podcast is to provide information, resources, education, and the one thing I think we all need the most, a safe place to land in this lonely world. We're all so glad you're here.