Unlonely with Dr. Jody Carrington - How Trauma Shapes Our Lives

Episode Date: November 30, 2023

In this episode, Dr. Jody really gets into the nitty-gritty of trauma. She breaks it down for us and talks about how we can all pitch in to help ourselves and others going through tough times.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_childhood_experienceshttps://www.skool.com/drjody?invite=594739b2f47a46f6a98d4aecdb82af38 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Let's start here, where I think the answer begins for everything and everybody, in the place of acknowledgement. Indigenous peoples in this country have taught me the most about what acknowledgement truly means. So everything that I've created for you happened here on Treaty 7 land, which is now known as the center part of the province of Alberta. It is home to the Blackfoot Confederacy, made up of the Siksika, the Kainai, the Pikani, the Tatina First Nation, the Stony Nakota First Nation, and the Métis Nation Region 3. It is always my honor, my privilege mostly, to raise my babies on this land where so much sacrifice was made and to build a community, invite a community in, talk about hard things as we together learn and unlearn about the most important things, that we were never meant to do any of this alone. Well, hello, friends. Welcome back.

Welcome in to the Everyone Comes From Somewhere podcast. It's you and me today, Dr. Jodi Carrington, clinical psychologist, talking all about PTSD. That's where we're going to start. Anyway, who knows where we're going to end. But I want to talk today about trauma. In this month of November, we tend to sink in a little bit. So this is when we're recording this podcast. And I want to talk a little bit about, I don't know, what trauma is. Okay, so let's not skate around the issue. Let's dive right in, shall we? I love this definition the most. Trauma is the invisible force that shapes our lives. Powerful statement, isn't it? What do you mean shapes our lives? Trauma shapes our lives. How about like good

things shape our lives? But when I think about this from a psychological perspective, our experiences, particularly the ones that we encode in terror, shape the way we live, the way we love, and the way we make sense of the world. Trauma tends to be the root of our deepest wounds. And in fact, trauma, the word trauma, comes from the Greek word that does mean wound. And when someone touches a wound, and this is how I think about it, right? When someone touches a wound, an open sore that you have, it's often painful. If you avoid it, don't bother it. It can stay just there unless properly attended to. However, time alone cannot heal all wounds.

So I think we use this word, unfortunately, so colloquially. I'm traumatized. You're traumatized. He colloquially. I'm traumatized. You're traumatized. He got the PTSD. I watched this movie. I got traumatized. The truth of this is trauma does happen to everyone individually and collectively. OK, so as a as a globe, we've experienced, I mean, multiple things when we learn in,

you know, social studies, the history of our respective countries or provinces or states, we can identify experiences that we've either experienced, identify experiences that either as a cultural group, an entity, an experience like a terrorist attack, those big things that we can think about collectively. And individually, it becomes a little bit harder to define because I think for a long time, post-traumatic stress disorder was synonymous with those who served in the military. I mean, in fact, this is where it started, primarily because people started noticing multiple decades ago that when people return from war, doing serving their country, doing really hard things, they largely speaking were fucked up and had a really hard time reintegrating into the way that they operated into the world. And people were like, oh, what's wrong with this one? What's wrong with this one? What's wrong with this one? Until we started asking what happened to this one? What's wrong with this one? What's wrong with this one? Until we started asking, what happened

to this one? And that truly for me as a psychologist has became the pivotal question. Bruce Perry, Oprah Winfrey wrote a book about the same title, What Happened to You? Because I was trained, many of us still are in this profession, to figure out the symptoms. What is wrong with you? Put that together in a platform, a portfolio, a diagnostic profile. That's the P word I was looking for. And come up with a diagnosis. And often what we miss so much is the story. And you know, the reason for this podcast, Everyone Comes From Somewhere, is that context is the prerequisite for understanding, for empathy. It is the far behind the very clear medically minded models that are so obvious when there's a physical injury, because we have something tactile that we can see, we can watch the healing of a wound. It will likely, the deeper the wound,

it will leave remarkable scars on the physical body. But we are so much more inclined to talk about physical illness than we are emotional illness, which again, will leave exactly the same kind of scars. You won't be the same if you experience a massive psychological injury or one that would induce trauma to the same degree that you won't ever be the same when you experience a physical illness. And I just want to talk a little bit about the data real quick. So incidents, and this is a sort of collectively peer-reviewed research, it is estimated that about 70% of U.S. adults, a little bit less in Canada, have experienced a traumatic event at least once. I think that's a gross underestimation. Not everyone who experiences trauma will develop PTSD. And I think that's the critical thing that I want you to hear. Trauma does not mean you get to PTSD. What I think is so critical

is that trauma is not, largely speaking, what happens to you. It is what happens inside of you as a result of what has happened to you. Okay. So it becomes very difficult to decide who's going to get a wound that does not get treated in festers and later can destroy your way of operating in this world, it becomes really difficult to decide who that's going to happen to. And, you know, it's sort of estimated that about 20% of people who experience, you know, a traumatic incident go on to develop the PTSD. Again, I think that's really, you know, interesting numbers. But what I find fascinating the most is that women are twice as likely to develop PTSD, comparatively speaking to men. And there's also some interesting data around the fact that, you know, the risk of developing PTSD is based on the trauma, which makes sense to me. I mean, the more difficult it is to process an emotion or, sorry, an experience, the more stigma there is around specific experiences, the more that you don't have a place to put it, makes sense that it would then become a very festering, debilitating wound.

So it is estimated, of course, that the risk is higher, especially higher after rape, physical assault, and other sexual assaults, you know, particularly when you know you're an aggressor, when there's a secret sea around that experience, you are mortified, did I cause it, you know, all of those, the data is really rich around that piece for women in particular. And I think the most important influence on the biological development of the human brain is the quality of adult-child relationships, particularly in the early childhood years. And so there is a lot of data to suggest that the earlier you experience a psychological wound that is not attended to, the greater, I mean, it's been there longer. It's been unattended to longer. You have developed around it and had to compensate for it, which means it throws the entire system off kilter. Do we, can we trust people? learned at two months old, two years old, that big people, largely speaking, are not safe,

it becomes very, very rudimentary in my being that that is how people show up in this world. If, for example, I have a fairly secure development, understanding that people, generally speaking, are kind and competent and that they look after you when you're distressed. But I experience a deep wound when I'm 17. It is easier, and I use that word so lightly, to be able to address the specific understanding versus something that is chronically embedded in a systems functioning, a life systems functioning. So this is why we talk a lot about intergenerational trauma, how when you're born into the experience of feeling fear and in your bones, of course,

that's going to affect the physical development of your body. And I love, you know, again, there's lots of theories around this. There's lots of brilliant people in this space. Steven Porges, I'll mention a few names as we go along here. But if you listen to me for long, Bessel van der Kolk is a psychiatrist who is very, is revered a good word? Renowned? I can't remember. In this world of trauma has written The Body Keeps the Score and probably one of my most favorite books in this space. And I love

the reference, you know, Stephen Porges is famous for something called the polyvagal theory. And essentially, it means when our brain is safe, it can integrate emotion. When it is not safe, it doesn't. So that's the basis of the polyvagal system, because from a neurophysiological perspective, when you're on guard all the time, you can't process information. And so what I think is really fascinating about this idea of trauma is I want you to think about it like this, like when you, your body goes into fight or flight, which it should do. People often say, how do I avoid the trauma? What do I do about it? How do I find somebody that won't get to PTSD? Like if I'm hiring for a physician or a nurse or a police officer, how do I find somebody who won't? Your experience determines what you will see as

traumatic or scary. Okay. So if we take it from the very basic definition, trauma is any experience encoded in terror. It's not just being fearful of something. It's not just, oh, that scared me. Oh, that movie was scary. I feel traumatized. No, no, no. When you encode it in terror, and terror is a word too, I want you to think that is such a visceral experience. Very few times will we be in a state of terror. I want you to think about things like physical, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, being so scared for your life all the time. These three things will be on board. Uncertainty, at the very least. Uncertainty, fear, and no end in sight. That's where things sort of get really scary. Okay. And if I have nowhere to put that, nobody to talk to, nobody to put that down with a little bit, it starts to

then embedded in our systems. And so you, uh, from a lid flippy perspective, okay, our brains are intended to protect us. So when you get into a state, a fearful stage, your prefrontal cortex will flip out of the way and you'll go into fight, flight, or freeze. So if we're out frolicking in the woods, you and me, we are emotionally regulated, which means we're walking and talking and even laughing. We're feeling for relatively, for the most part, safe in our bodies. Okay. Safe enough in our bodies. And out of the bushes jumps a cougar, a cougar, we're both going to flip our lids. We're going to move our bodies automatically. We'll move our prefrontal cortex out of the way, flip it out, and give us access to fight, flight, and freeze. Because our bodies know

inherently that we don't need to have access to all the shit that is in our prefrontal cortex, like the pin number to our bank card, the color of our child's eyes, the, our first childhood phone number, the middle name of our mother-in-law. We don't need to, it flips all that out of the way in order to keep you safe. We have evolved in a way from a biological perspective that our bodies know that when a danger is imminent, I'm going to flip everything out of the way that you don't need to do and just give you access to adrenaline, things that are going to make your body either move or freeze, fight, flight, or freeze. Okay? Now, in a place like that, we're going to run, get out of the way, hopefully, and be

safe. And our lids will come back on and we'll talk about it and be like, holy fuck, like, where did that cougar come from? Are you okay? Am I okay? Yep. Look at my eyes. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Process that experience. If for example, there is no opportunity to put that back together, that you just run and run and run. And then there's more cougars and more bears and more things. And you just don't talk about it. It was don't open your mouth. That's what you got into. You expected that here. You understand it's very difficult to put that back into place, to put that prefrontal cortex back on, to process, to get your body back in a state of safety,

right? There's not cougars everywhere. This was one isolated experience. I didn't realize this. We didn't bring the bears, like whatever that is, we start to make sense of it, right? Knowing that that threat will not on every bush that you walk by for the rest of your life, jump out of. This was, we were in the mountains. There was a high rate of cougars in the state, like whatever the fucking deal is. Okay. Secondly, what also really contributes to a deeper understanding of when you will flip your lid is largely experienced on your, it's largely based on your stories of people and how safe this world is. So I give this example all the time. Let's

pretend you and I are out frolicking again in the bushes. Okay. And we're walking along and we're laughing and we're talking, our lids are on. Now, what you need to know about you and me, just this one little fact will help you understand what's going to happen next. I hate dogs. Hypothetically speaking, okay, don't send me messages about how you can help me with my dog fear. But I and I don't really have one. But let's just pretend that like I got bit when I was two. Nobody really talked me through it. My babysitter made me watch Cujo when I was six. Put me to bed. Oh, you're fine. Nobody really ever talked about it. So I fucking hate dogs. Every time I see a dog, I'm scared. I'm all of those things. You, on the other hand, you're a dog whisperer. You have a breeding program. You want to own a kennel. You own five dogs. You just really understand the canine. Okay. And you love, you just really adore them. Okay. You have pet names for vicious dogs, like pitties and, and rotties. And, and you just, you, you just humanize them. You just really think that there's nothing you can do to just not calm a dog down. Okay. This

is how I feel around dysregulated children. Anyway, when you, who aren't mine, when you get into, we're walking along, out of the bushes, jumps a Rottweiler. If I see the dog first, what is my response? Based on my fear, the story in my body is that dogs are not safe, period. I don't care what they are. Out of the bushes jumps this dog. And what happens to me? My lid flips and I go, ah! Ah! Run! Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. Out of the bushes jumps this dog. And what happens to me? My lid flips and I go, ah!

Ah! Run! Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. What does the dog do? It reacts to me, right? Self-fulfilling prophecy. It probably eats me.

Now, if you see the dog first. Oh, my goodness. Look at that. Come here, baby. Look at this gorgeous. How does the dog respond to you? Your lid stays on. Its lid stays on.

Everybody's happy. Okay? Now, it is the same scene, the same smells, the same time of year, the exact same scenario. But we encoded that experience remarkably different based on our stories. Okay? The systems in our bodies really depend on how we encode that information and then what we do with it after becomes important. Okay. So there's sort of that two-step process, right? Our stories tend to inform

then the process or the people, the systems we have in place to bring us back home. Because it's not about, you cannot avoid all of the propensity, the things that may cause somebody terror. That's an exhaustive process. What we do know, okay, so first that's the thing. And then secondly, it's like what's more critically important, where I think all of our resources should go, is in those people, children, humans, who will tend to be in trauma-inducing situations. What are we doing to invest madly into the people who will help integrate those experiences? Police officers, first responders, period. Physicians, social workers, child and family services, period. Hey, everyone.

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Because we will not obliterate trauma-inducing experiences because of a mental health crisis that will far exceed our lifetimes on this podcast. Racism, marginalization, all of those things that will take multiple gender disparity, all of those things or complete, anyway, misunderstanding. All of those things should take our focus in sort of fixing the world. But let's just assume, rightly so, that we cannot continue to obliterate the problems. We need more so a concern about let's, let's focus on the intervention piece for sure. But what about the people doing the reintegration of the trauma? That's the piece that we miss, I think a lot of the time. Okay. Now, what I think is so critically important about this, um, is that, you know, your body keeps the score. So

there is a significant, um, connection between things like, you know, PTSD and autoimmune conditions, increased risks of cancer, physical manifestations in the body, Alzheimer's disease, as I just said, rheumatoid conditions. And the more traumatized you become, the more marginalized you've experienced, you know, hard things, it's cumulative. And so we see, for example, Indigenous women experience a rate of rheumatoid arthritis, your body, there are certain things, particularly in the world of children, that we can say relatively with 100% confidence that there are certain experiences that will be encoded in terror full stop. Okay, so we know some of these things to be true. It doesn't even depend on your stories, per se. And that's where the adverse childhood experiences research comes in. I will put a link

in the show notes because this isn't proprietary information in any way. Adverse childhood experiences was referenced back to Vince Felitti and colleagues at Kaiser Permanente, where they were initially took a massive sample size from a quantitative data perspective. And we're looking at, out of the gate, severe obesity in women. And what they noticed was that those most debilitated by obesity had a high rate of also experiencing childhood sexual abuse. So these researchers started to ask the question, what actually, what else has to happen in childhood that then later results without intervention, that later results in sort of messing you up in adulthood? interview components of the original research. And they came up with a list of 10 things that said, if a kid experiences these zero to 18, they will encode them in trauma or in terror, and they will be cumulatively debilitating. So they created this sort of assessment measure where you can give a kid or you can do a historical

interview, you can score yourself on one to 10. If you've experienced these things before the age of 18, you get a point and you don't want a point. They include things like, did you before the age of 18 experience physical abuse, emotional abuse, or sexual abuse? Emotional neglect or physical neglect? Both of those things are very different, but we often lump abuse. We often lump neglect.

Those are two very different things, five very different things, and cumulative. Were you a product of divorce? Did you observe mother being treated violently? People say, how come you don't get a point if father was being treated violently? Also very debilitating, but from a statistical perspective, not apparently as trauma-inducing or terror-inducing as observing mother being treated violently. Okay. Did you live with somebody who later went to jail? Did you live with somebody who had a mental illness? All of those things. And did you live with somebody who struggled with addiction? So you have those 10 things that then you can score. What the ACEs research doesn't account for is time. It doesn't preclude or doesn't have questions about when you experience these things, which is

very, very important in understanding the effects. It also has no conversation about the experiences that a child would have experienced that may have mitigated some of that trauma that may have then where they would have had experiences to put their lids back on and process it, right? Because just because it happens to you doesn't mean what's more important to me is what happened after. Who did you have around it? And so when I was writing Feeling Seen, I really dove into some data by Narian and colleagues. And there's a lot of people now that are really looking at benevolence or corrective experiences that then do essentially what we started out at the top of this podcast saying is that who then, what then resources people do you have in your respective world that do the walking and the integration of that process of those experiences? Okay.

And what I find really interesting and why I spend a lot of my time with first responders and teachers is because if I look at just simply the benevolent childhood experiences scale, so Narian and colleagues came up with 10 items equally, which I, why I love about it is it's sort of like, okay, you've got these 10 things, you know, that have happened to you, but here's the 10 things that also, if you experience will help you integrate those experiences. And they include things like answering these questions, zero to 18. Did you have any of these experiences? Number one, did you have good neighbors? Did you have predictable bedtime routines? Did you have an opportunity to have fun? Did you like school? Not, did you like the literacy and numeracy? Did you like school? Did you have one teacher who cared about you? And an additional question, I mean, there's not very many spaces to take up in these

10, but an additional question outside of a teacher was, did you have any other adults that you felt like you could talk to or that you felt safe with? Remarkable to me how as a community we will become very important in healing the world. And when I think about this, you know, from a first responder perspective, oftentimes it is in those initial responses to trauma that if I have invested significant amounts of resources into teams that can do the walking, I think, as you know, my perspective on this is that we do a really shitty job of looking after first responders, particularly police officers. And we do an even shitty job of looking after first responders, particularly police officers. And we do an even worse job of looking after the people who hold them.

There's not a single program for first responders spouses, which is why I created Hello Hero. And I think what is critical is when we hang on to the walkers, the holders, they then have the ability to do some very important things in the first moments, days, weeks, months of following experiences of terror. And what further perpetuates, I think, the understandable but astounding and heartbreaking rates of PTSD in the world of first responders like, you know, police, fire, EMS, corrections officers, 911 operators, active military members serving particularly overseas, is that your job, your job is defined by the fact that you only go into situations, largely speaking, that will induce terror. There will be somebody fighting for their life, somebody fighting each other. Your physical safety, particularly when you work in high conflict areas, will be at risk to some degree, most every shift. And even if it's not, the anticipatory anxiety

of that will be heavy in the air repeatedly. Even as we think about 911 operators, right? My responsibility to navigate people where I can't even physically be in that place. You can imagine the amount of emotional dysregulation that can happen in that body when you can hear a baby crying or you're waiting on the phone for 20 minutes while a first responder comes, you know, while a dad is sitting with his baby who's choking or, you know, whatever the deal is, right? You can imagine the trauma that happens in those bodies. And if there is not a cultural experience that assists in a workplace cultural experiences that assists in reintegrating those experiences, and there isn't, P.S., you can imagine the cumulative effects that happen. And further, if you do not have an

emotional language to process information, which tends to be more prominent in males these days, it'll kill you. Emotions will not kill you. Anxiety, depression, trauma, the sequelae of trauma. Not talking about it, Mike. And I want to just read you this because when I was prepping for this podcast, I came upon this little piece of data that I just want to tell you real quick. So let me find it real fast. No shit, that's not it. Hang on. I have notes everywhere for you. Let's read through this together. Okay, so one of the most common ways we avoid or suppress an emotion is by giving it too much meaning and not enough feeling. I love that.

Do you want me to say that again? One of the most common ways we avoid or suppress an emotion is by giving it too much meaning and not enough feeling. If you think about it, it's, it's a brilliant survival strategy that we employ to avoid experiencing a difficult emotion. We stay stuck in the logistics, uh, by hyper fixating on the cognitive experience. So for example, the story, the gun was here. She moved the car around this way. This happened. So by hyper fixating on the cognitive experience or the meaning, the story behind the emotion, we are able to stay out of our body and in our mind. And it is so much better to stay in our mind. This is, the avoiding is not the same thing as processing. Here's why. Emotions have a somatic, which means it's in your body, body oriented,

somatic element to them. That is, I feel angry and not I think angry. Okay. I feel so angry. I just don't say, I think angry. You can think angry. I just don't say I think angry. You can think angry thoughts, but the feeling, do you see the difference? With this feeling comes a physiological response. For example, when we feel anger, the survival stress hormones of adrenaline and cortisol are released into the body to sort of mobilize it, right? Because if we're actually in ambushes and that coug jumps out, I want you to mobilize for fighting. Adrenaline, cortisol, mobilize us, let's go. But to release these survival hormones, the body has to naturally express or discharge the emotion. Crying, shaking, trembling, tingling, whatever that is. I mean, if you look at

an animal who's experienced a traumatic experience in the wild, they will physically shake. Even if you have a dog in your house or whatever, after a fight, cats do this too. Apparently I fucking hate cats. But anyway, when we avoid feeling our feelings, our body and nervous system become overwhelmed by these chronic survival hormones. It's not even the situation that fucking gets us. It's the process that happens in our body. Okay. So therefore, until our body is able to metabolize, discharge, talk it out, shake it out, that emotion through sensation and feeling, it will only continue to intensify like a pressure cooker. Only after discharge can the body, nervous system, if I were to sort of give you a direction to go after this, if you're seeking somebody that you want to assist you in this process, I often feel like therapy is necessary. I think people who do heavy, hard work should have therapists on retainer.

After every heavy session that I do in my office, you can see me, I would be jumping in the kitchen. Here, I will be out, you know, I will shake it off. And it feels ridiculous and weird. But it is so helpful in the long term. If we're going to continue to serve, we become the most important people on the planet, full stop. So I'm going to put some of this, you know, if you're seeking a therapist as somebody, you know, part of my favorite based on the conversation we just had is interventions that involve the body. So somatic things. The number one for me is EMDR. And I hate the name of it and so does Francis Shapiro or Francine Shapiro who came up with it. Eye movement desensitization reprocessing. And it was originally developed by Francine Shapiro in 1989 or 87 I'm sure. And several

evolutions have been made to this process after I've been trained in EMDR. Anybody who I really love in this world of trauma has a deep understanding of the processes that happen when we do somatic work. And it has really garnered much more positive results in strict cognitive and or behavioral approaches. And there's been so much research on EMDR that is now recognized as an effective form of, it is recognized as an effective form of treatment for trauma and other disturbing experiences by organizations like the American Psychiatric Association, the World Health

Organization, and the Department of Defense. So I think, you know, what's really critical is, I'm going to leave you with this quote by Bessel van der Kolk, which I really love. It is about, okay, it's about becoming safe to feel what you feel. When you're traumatized, you're afraid of what you're feeling, because your feeling is always terror or fear or helplessness. I think these body-based techniques help you to feel what's happening in your body and to breathe into it and not run away from it so you learn to befriend that experience. Peter Levine says this, Trauma is not what happens to us but what we hold inside

in the absence of an empathic witness. Boom! I love that. I love that. All right. I wanted this to be a short and sweet snapshot of some of my takes on trauma. Of course, I have so many more thoughts on this and I will do so many more podcast episodes about this if it's something you want me to do. I would love you, first of all, while you're listening to this in this moment, drop your shoulders. Drop your shoulders, wiggle your toes. If you've been listening to this because you believe you've encoded many things in terror in your life, I want you just to really have a conscious thought in your head right now that in this moment, if this is true, that you are safe, your body is safe, and you are in control of it. Wiggle your toes, deep breath, relax your jaw, drop your tongue from the roof of your mouth.

Even after this episode, if you need to, you know, if you're driving or walking or running, stand up, shake it out, jump, jump, jump, jump, jump, process some of that feeling and just let it sort of sink out your toes and out your fingertips. Okay. The other thing that I think is really interesting, uh, here is, um, I'm, I'm so happy to do more of this. I have, um, our Hello Hero course is now free. Um, if you need need it it's up in a private community we have called Everyone and I've moved some of my biggest insights

the place where I spend the most amount of time with off of primary platforms of social media and created a community called Everyone so we'll link it to here so you have access to that, share it with the people you love, give it to the people who you think want a little bit more

understanding of the way I see trauma and how it affects the body. Um, and also, um, I really just want to tell you this. Uh, I'm grateful that you showed up here today. If you like and subscribe, I really just tag the people in your world who might benefit from this conversation because this is what I love the most about this podcast world is that it has the ability to reach people who can just listen on their own time, in their own space and consider things. And I just feel so lucky sometimes to, in my very big position of privilege, learn the things that I've learned and been taught by people who have experienced some of the most horrific, horrifying, horrific and horrifying are the same thing,

but some of the most unbelievable debilitating experiences, survived cultural genocides, massive traumas, watch their own babies die. All of those things that you can just, many of us don't have to fathom. And I hope this place is a resource for people who just need a place to put it. So share it with the people you love. Thank you for being here today. And I hope to meet you right back here sometime again real soon. I'm a registered clinical psychologist here in beautiful Alberta, Canada. The content created and produced in this show is not intended as specific therapeutic advice.

The intention of this podcast is to provide information, resources, some education, and hopefully a little hope. The Everyone Comes From Somewhere podcast by me, Dr. Jodi Carrington, is produced by Brian Seaver, Taylor McGillivray, and the amazing Jeremy Saunders at Snack Labs. Our executive producer is the one and only, my Marty Piller. Our marketing strategist is Caitlin Beneteau. And our PR big shooters are Des Veneau and Barry Cohen.

Our agent, the 007 guy, is Jeff Lowness from the Talent Bureau. And my emotional support during the taping of these credits was and is and will always be my son, Asher Grant.