Unlonely with Dr. Jody Carrington - Modern Day Relationships

Episode Date: March 28, 2024

In this episode Dr. Jody talks about about the modern day relationships and how hard it is to stay connected to one another. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. At the beginning of every episode, there will always be time for an acknowledgement. You know, the more we do this, people ask, why do you have to do the acknowledgement in every episode? I got to tell you, I've never been more grateful for being able to raise my babies on a land where so much sacrifice was made. And I think what's really critical in this process is that the ask is just that we don't forget. So the importance of saying these words at the beginning of every episode will always be of utmost importance to me

and this team. So everything that we created here today for you happened on Treaty 7 land, which is now known as the center part of the province of Alberta. It is home of the Blackfoot Confederacy, which is made up of the Siksika, the Kainai, the Pekinni, the Tatina First Nation, the Stony Nakota First Nation, and the Métis Nation Region 3. Our job, our job as humans, is to simply acknowledge each other. That's how we do better, be better, and stay connected to the good. welcome back welcome in my fellow humans, Dr. Glee Jansen here. On a solo expedition today into this Everyone Comes From Somewhere podcast, can I just tell you, I'm super excited about it. We just had some conversations this week about the success. We've had over 200,000 downloads in 111 different countries.

I'm kind of making that number up, but I feel like that's pretty close to accurate. And I, I mean, I got to start with a little gratitude here. Like I am just so grateful. You know, one of my favorite things is when I hear people talk about, um, you know, when they, when I'm doing a talk or somebody says to me, Hey, you know, we look forward to the, or to the episode launches every Thursday. You know, my husband and I listen to it when we're driving to our kids' hockey games or our grandkids' hockey games. Or, you know, I go for a walk every Thursday with you and whatever that is. I love to hear those things. So if that is happening, please tell me because it just nothing fills my soul more than to know that this venture into the podcast world

is garnering some level of success, because I am enjoying it way more than I thought I would. And just getting to hang out with you every week is kind of like a highlight. So if you're a first timer here today, buckle up. Because I, on these solo episodes, you know, Marty and I have to talk about this. What do we want to talk about today? And I think what I'm most interested in today is I want to talk about modern day relationships. And first of all, why they're so fucking hard, I guess, is always on my mind these days. Why is it seemingly difficult to initiate a relationship? If I listen to, you know, patients that I currently have or, you know, friends that

are sort of back in the dating world, starting in the dating world, trying to figure out how you, you know, reestablish a relationship after a divorce, when you try to navigate, you know, and I watch even my nieces or, you know, kids these days try to figure out, you know, how do they start a new relationship? I am amazed at how difficult it seems to be in this very easily connected world. And I also am just shocked so much at, you know, how do we navigate relationships in the middle of a mental health crisis? And I think I was listening to a podcast today that really made me think about this in a different way. And I think when we consider modern day relationships, I think that the truth will always, it will always come back to one basic truth. Okay.

We, each of us as human beings, okay, wherever you are on this planet, if you have a beating heart and you walk on two legs, actually, I don't really know the rules about a human, but like just because you're a human, right? Regardless of age, race, religion, socioeconomic status, gender identity, all of those things, each of us desires to be seen. And when we are seen, when we feel like somebody gets us, that is where we have access to the best parts of us. So what I believe to the core of me is that every single human has the capacity for good, to be good. And this is remarkable. You know, when I sit with people who are in the middle of a messy divorce or who have disdain for somebody who's hurt their child, disdain, hatred for somebody who has made decisions in their lifetime that has messed them up, you know? And being able to have a conversation where I say, listen, I've never met a human yet who does not have the capacity for good. And I think that's hard because the people who need it the most are the hardest to give to. The people that have hurt you the most are the hardest to give to. But so much of our job these days, when I think about the success of modern day relationships, comes back to this concept of understanding how we get back to the best parts of each other.

Here's the prerequisite. You have to have access to the best parts of you. is that if we want to foster, create, develop, initiate, leave a legacy of healthy relationships, the number one goal is us, you and me. And I think in this world of readily available data around psychology, psychological insights, the ease for which people very uneducated, uh, in this space make massive opinions. And then we, um, really use some of this knowledge to pathologize everybody. You know, this guy's a narcissist, or here's five ways to cure this. Or, you know, I will coach you through these relationships. Like, holy fuck, just because you've been through a divorce doesn't mean you get the right to be now a coach for everybody else who's going through a divorce. Now, some people are fantastic

in this regard, but my biggest concern is that we are pathologizing and using our understandings in ways that can sometimes further disconnect us in relationships. Because the truth of this for me always has been people are hard to hate close up. Okay. And it doesn't mean you forgive, condone, believe anybody. I mean, this is the power of empathy, right? It doesn't mean I have to condone anything you do, but when I understand it, when I understand why it gives me the freedom to stay regulated, it doesn't let you off the hook. It doesn't give you nothing necessarily. Cause I don't give a shit about the other, to be honest with you. I am most concerned about you when you're okay, the people you love and you lead and you teach and you coach will be okay too. And oftentimes when we get into distressing situations, we have such a desire to fix, to treat, to help,

to assist another. And the truth of the matter is, is we have very little control over that. What we always have control over is our own ability to stay regulated and make decisions from that very regulated, clear, good space. And I think one of the biggest mistakes we make sometimes in this space is that it means we're just going to allow anything to happen. We're just gonna be like, it's good. It's good. It's good. I can figure it out. No, like it, it doesn't mean that hard decisions aren't going to be made. It doesn't mean that relationships have to end. It doesn't mean that, you know, you're not going to draw lines in the sand or most importantly, create boundaries because the most generous amongst us are the most boundaried. Boundaries are often set, not often, the most healthiest boundaries are set for you,

not for anybody else. Because when you start setting boundaries for other people, that's an ultimatum. You come to my house drunk, we're not talking anymore. Versus in this space for me, for me to be the best sister, partner, mom on the planet, here's what I need in this space. I cannot, I cannot have alcohol in this house, but I need you here. I love you to be here, but here is the line in the sand for me. Do you understand? So it's an interesting thing when we are looking to maintain or create access to the best parts of us in an effort to develop, foster, and initiate some of the best relationships around us, among us. And what I think is so critical in this space is we desire this connection. We've always desired this connection. I always say this,

you will never automate relationship. Okay. In the vast mercy of, now people have done this all the time. And it's interesting because, you know, there's even, um, bots that are acting as therapists these days. Okay. Because, you know, we, we justify this in many ways, right? Like there's not enough good healthcare opportunities. AI can produce a paper. AI can do these things very quickly. AI can answer your questions. AI can whatever. So why don't we create a therapeutic intervention with a bot that could conceivably respond

based on an algorithm to walk you home? And here's what's interesting about this. The data, the initial data is really clear. You will never automate relationship. And I love, I don't know who started this, but Esther Perel, one of my favorite humans on the planet, she is a world renowned psychotherapist, um, talks about the new AI, which is artificial intimacy, that we have such a desire to have somebody bear witness to us, to be seen by another, that we invest a lot of time in likes and follows. And it's sort of the new currency, right? That is almost artificial in what it does for our system. Now on the surface, we get this response, this dopamine hit, this experience of, okay, yeah, this is exciting, or this is great, or this is whatever, right? But the artificial nature, the fleeting nature of that

is something that in this season, as we navigate, I mean, this is the place that I feel 150,000% where my career is career is going to go is having, this is where the next book is for me, I think is having conversations around who, what, which organizations can get to this understanding first, that you will never automate relationship. The more interpersonally connected you are in your family systems, in your organizations, the more you understand and harness the capacity to provide another, a sense of feeling seen in your presence, in your organization, in your health service, in your whatever, you will exponentially create not only a thing that is needed desperately, but a thing that will save lives. And let me explain this. Okay. So I think when we lose our capacity, when we start to, listen, let's start at the beginning.

When you learn how to regulate emotion, how to stay calm in times of distress, slow your body enough so that you can recognize another. I mean, that's the number one key. When people say, you know, what is the most important thing you will ever teach your children? Right? Many people want their kids to be happy and successful or competent or whatever the deal is. The most important thing you will ever teach your child, and I will maintain this till my death, is how to regulate emotion. Because when you are emotionally regulated, you have access to your capacity for good.

When you are dysregulated, you lose access to that capacity. Now getting dysregulated is a must. It is a feeling of feeling things like distress, loneliness, anxiety, fear, shame, guilt, all of those things necessary. Okay. Not something to be avoided. In fact, something to develop a script around. The only way you learn how to survive those things or navigate those things is somebody has to show you to walk you through them, bring you back to a state of emotional regulation, which is where your good lives. Okay. It is not a life well lived is not devoid of all of those things. In fact, it is embraced all of those things. It is not scared of all of those things because you know, you can handle it. When you spend a life trying to avoid meltdowns, firings, people's poor opinions of you,

it is exhausting because it's going to fucking happen. Somebody in your world's going to die. Somebody in your world's going to reject you. Somebody in your world's not going to think you're good enough for whatever fucking reason, whether it's true or not. It is not if those things are going to happen, it's when. And more than anything, it is our capacity to navigate them that predicts our ability to be healthy in this world. And we were never meant to do this alone. One of the most powerful reasons why I will continue to speak in any room that will have me is because you can't tell somebody the things we talk about around here. You have to show them. And some of the most powerful moments in any audience

is when I get to go out in the crowd and have a conversation with somebody. I can't tell you how much more fulfilling, how much more maybe creative, insightful it becomes to be in a room with somebody rather than, I mean, in this moment, I'm sitting in my office at home. I'm looking out my window. It's a snowy day. And I have no idea whether this, these words are resonating with anybody, right? Cause I'm talking to myself in a fucking microphone. I have no idea. If you and I were in the same room and I had somebody just silently, I mean, it's not even with a word. It is often just like this. Makes me go, okay. And then also I think about this, or if I see somebody go, God, I don't know about that. You cannot, you cannot, you cannot, you cannot own a relationship. We can sustain ourselves. We can maintain, um, distance from people. We can avoid people. We can do all this

sometimes very necessary in some relationships. The greatest skill of all time will be your capacity to regulate your own emotion so that you can either facilitate the development of the relationships you have, choose wisely, effectively to put boundaries in place to, to end them. All of those things when done well, and that's loosely defined, I guess, is, um, dependent on this capacity to regulate emotion. Okay. Because your ability to do any of those things, either further a relationship, repair a relationship, have a deep, meaningful conversation with your child or your boss or your partner really comes back to this capacity of, do you have enough wherewithal just to drop your shoulders, to take a breath, to wonder how your role in this process, um, is important. And when

you have that capacity, you see our ability to navigate through whatever it is becomes greater in that moment. And I think what I've learned, you know, particularly in the last little bit is this conversation around, you know, who's going to do this? How do you get this skill? Okay. And I think my, my take is, and my assurance to all of us listening today is that we all have it. We all have it already. When you have access to the best parts of you, when you feel the most competent, kind, empathic, it is from that position that the best things from us grow, come forth, if you will. What many of us lack is a route to that, a practice that is surrounding the ability to get us back to the best parts of us. So many of us, I think, live in this heightened

state of arousal, worried about what people are thinking, doing. Did I say this enough? Am I too fat? Am I fucking up my kids? What am I? Oh my God. Okay. You know what? I don't even want to think about those things. I don't want to slow down and be still. I'm going to just watch another episode of Dateline. I'm going to listen to all that. order to foster some of the most important relationships that will never be on a minimum is from that capacity to slow right down. And I, I promise you to like the core of my being, that it is the thing that most people on this planet want in this moment is to be seen. When you're acknowledged, you rise. I wrote all about

this in Feeling Seen because it's the whole second chapter of Feeling Seen. And, you know, on the heels of International Women's Day, I mean, I, you know, International Women's History Month, I've spent a lot of time sort of looking at the data around who, what does this capacity, what skills are at the table when we look at emotional regulation, the capacity to sort of bring that out in other people, but who sort of foster those skills, that skill set of being able to stay regulated. And what's remarkable is in organizational stress in particular, these skills have long been touted as soft skills and synonymous with weak, synonymous with secondary, synonymous with second only to a solid set of policy and procedures

or a solid, um, what do you call that thing? PNL. Okay. So if you are making the money, the soft skills are secondary. I mean, we'll think about training people, investing in soft skill training later, but like, like, do we have the money? Do we have the product? Do we have the development? Do we have the marketing? Do we have, uh, you know, what's our customer service plan? Like all of those things. Yeah. Secondary to most organizational development historically has been this idea of soft skills and this, this, the term soft skills actually, you know, evolved out of, um, the U S army in the 1960s, they identified the things that created the U.S. Army or made it successful. And anything that wasn't a machine was identified as something,

you know, that was the soft component of the organization, which has since evolved into this idea of soft skills. And it represents all things like communication, effective communication, empathy, um, the ability to navigate relationships, to keep people engaged. And there's a number of measures, um, things that you can, um, sort of use to identify what soft skills are, but they really, I mean, the, the identity, uh, so they, the, not the identity, but the, the capacity sort of, um, describe it is really your ability to, to connect to people. And I think one of the biggest contributors to the most successful leaders on this planet, come back to this concept of soft skills

founded solely by emotional regulation. Now, if I had an opportunity to interview anybody, because I was going to do a startup or I was going to try to, uh, create a space where, you know, I wanted to work well with another human being. If I think about some of the best leaders I've ever had, okay. In any given moment, they had the capacity for soft skills. They could, if I had to just pick one, we're very good at emotional regulation. When shit started hitting the fan, they responded with the appropriate level of concern, but more than anything, they navigated their emotion so that everybody else around them could do that too. Okay. Things like this. Okay. Let's figure this out. All right.

Let's do this one at a time. Let's think about this. Is there anything I'm missing? What do you need the most right now? Okay. And here, this idea, this ability to be kind and not tolerate bullshit in that order. That's what I think some of the most effective leaders have the capacity to do. Hey everyone, we all know how draining cold and flu season can be. Waiting rooms, missed appointments, and that worry about whether a fever is something serious. But there is a better way. Maple gives you access to Canadian doctors and nurse practitioners in minutes, right from your phone. Get the medical care you need, including prescriptions when appropriate, 24-7 without leaving home. One membership covers your whole family, so you can add

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Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. When I think about who generally is better skilled at this, you see, you can't give away something you've never received. And when I think about who generally is skilled at this, women, if I were to pick, you know, if I just, I had only one choice, I had to pick penises or vaginas. Uh, I would pick vaginas mostly because in this regard, mostly because our capacity, female capacity for an emotional language is vastly outweighs, outnumbers, out evidences, those with a penis. Now, not because, and I say this all the time, this isn't about men versus women. In fact, women are much harder on themselves as a distinct gender than many other people are on this planet.

It's not a fight about a distinct oppressor often. It's about how much do we value what we as women bring to the table? Because historically it's always been considered secondary. When we are establishing businesses that required brute force, PNLs, policies and procedures, because most table because historically it's always been considered secondary. When we are establishing businesses that required brute force, PNLs, policies and procedures, because most of those around us had relationship filled up in our hearts before we came, we spent much more time looking at our children, much more time without the inundation of constant data on our phones and our radios and our TVs and the instant communication that we get from our watches. When we came into places of organizations, we needed some direction because psychophysiologically

we were filled up. I mean, I say this stat, I think it's in feelings too, like our, our great grandparents looked at their children 72% more of the time than we look at our babies. How does that affect the people that are coming into your team meetings in the morning? How does that affect, you know, the, the teachers that are stepping into our organizations, the police officers that are going out to the most dysregulated amongst us on calls today? How does that affect us in human services professions, our capacity to serve people? It, it significantly compromises it because we're, we're chippy. We haven't had the capacity to stay regulated in our own bodies enough to be able to walk people through things. Now,

who historically are better at that than anybody is women. Women who have the capacity to regulate emotion. And so when I think about, you know, seats at the table, it isn't really about equity for me anymore, despite the fact, I mean, we talk about this data a lot around here, you know, women, white women in particular, earn 83 very biased even in reporting of those data, because what's also interesting to me is that black women earn, let me get this right. I want to be very clear about this, that in terms of psychological safety too, that becomes an issue. But, um, when we look at the difference, black women earn 70 cents for every dollar while Latina women earn 65 cents, indigenous women earn 55 cents. So, you know, even within this comparative issue, um, there's also a massive difference that I think happens

so significantly. There's also something called the motherhood penalty, where women face what is known as the motherhood penalty, earning less money after they become mothers. But there's evidence of a fatherhood bonus in which men who become fathers actually earn more. And so we put my point here, there is a point, right? Is this idea that it is not just about the differences. I mean, we often tell these is this isn't equal. This isn't the same. I want you to consider the fact that in the most successful organizations right now, you will be looking for people who have the capacity to regulate emotion,

who have an emotional language, because they will by far increase the productivity and the value of your company. And this is going to be a very slow burn in this world of organizational stress, because even right now of the vast majority of fortune 500 companies in fact less than 10 percent of all fortune 500 companies have women at the helm because we're really in this interesting transitional place between how we've been raised how we've been led what we believe to be true in our bones the biases yeah that when things are really tricky we we need a, we need a man at the helm. We need somebody who has, we'll take no bullshit, Bruce brute force, throw punch fucking people and start things on fire if necessary. We don't want nobody to like telling me about your

feelings, what you want more and more and more. Tell me more. What are you doing like this? You okay little one? I'll make some snacks. I think there's a complete misnomer of what is required to navigate the emotion of the day. And I will continue to argue for the rest of my days that if you have somebody who can lead with these rules, be kind and don't tolerate bullshit in that order. It means that you will be successful. And so what you're looking for in, I would argue a partner, what you're looking for in, uh, building a business in any of those things is the healthiest among us being able to lead the way, have the capacity to regulate emotion, which means you can then build companies and organizations full of people who have all the heart and the skill and the, all of the things.

But if they can be led effectively in a way where when hard stuff happens, they have a leader who can say, ah, come here, let's try this again. Let's go, let's do this again. So much of our villaging of addressing this loneliness epidemic, this mental health crisis will happen in our volunteer organizations, our workplaces, our hockey teams, where there is somebody emotionally regulated down. And I want you to consider, you know, the organizations you work for, that you live in, that you work alongside. Can you play that role? Can we, at the best of our moments, do whatever we need to do before we step into whatever our job is today? You know, our teacher, a police officer. Can we take a minute before we step into this job as a nurse, a paramedic, uh, optometrist, a, um, yarn specialist, a Tyler. I'm trying to think about like a number of things that you could do.

Feed lot guy. Um, you are serving at whatever I'm going to make shit up now. So anyway, whatever it is that you do a tree mover, huh? Our capacity to just lean into some of those things, give ourselves the grace of dropping our shoulders, recognizing how lucky our organization is to have us, how much we can bring to any given place in this moment. Because we're not good enough to absolutely change the infrastructure, to influence every aspect of government. But we do have the capacity today to do the next best kind thing. To from the best part of where we have access to the good in us,

deliver that to our children, our partners, our volunteer organizations. And when we start to implement this capacity to just drop our shoulders first, to lead in this sense of kindness, the benefit of the doubt, I know that if that is the ask of you and me, we'll be regulated first. And then there will always come a time where we have to make decisions around tolerating bullshit, where we have to set limits and boundaries and, um, no, that's not going to happen here. No, no, no. Um, you know, I'm sorry that that is the, where we've landed. Um, but we're in two completely different places, you know, whatever that looks like. Okay. It is not, if we're going to make hard decisions or if hard things are going to happen to us,

or people are going to die or get sick. It's not if those things are going to happen, it's when, and our capacity to navigate it is significantly compromised. If we don't do this focus on shift in this world of such artificial relationship stuff, back to the thing that matters most, we were never meant to do this alone. And we do all of this so much better when we are from practicing, operating from this regulated place, whatever that looks like. And I just really want to acknowledge that I think for some people, it is so much easier, particularly those of us who are in positions of privilege, who have access to resources. And it is even a greater call to action for those of

us who fit that category to do the work that is necessary to be able to become that in our communities for the people that may not be as privileged. And some of the most rewarding work you will ever do on the planet comes from that space. Understanding that your ability to wave at somebody or pay for somebody's coffee or give somebody the benefit of the doubt using these words, like, tell me more, what's the hardest part when, you know, somebody on the team loses their mind or the volunteer says, this is fucking dumb. I don't know why you're here anyway. Or when, you know, you feel like you serve and give a lot to your company, your organization, and you feel very unacknowledged or people,

I don't know what, tell you something. I think the ability to find places to land, and I hope, I mean, this little podcast is one of them, but I think about how critically important that's going to be as we move forward, because our desire for connection, the necessity for really vulnerable, important witnessing of our souls will never, ever, ever get automated. But the more we have access to the artificial intimacy means we are going to be confused by the fact that we have so many access to people. We have 95,000 followers, or we have, you know, 67 likes on thising with our parents or holding a meeting internationally because of all this beautiful technological advances, right? Technological advances aren't the problem. They're actually such a gift in this season. Howological advances aren't the problem. They're actually

such a gift in this season. How we use them is the issue because we need to, on overdrive, implement the things that will allow us to feel connected to the people in our communities, to garner a sense of community. I mean, I often think about doing these talks, doing talks virtually versus what it feels like for me and mostly for other people to be in the same room. You just can't replicate that, you know. And I think if you're going to give hard news, if you're going to bear hard news, if you're going to give critical feedback, all of which are wildly important, being able to be physically connected with another human being, man, that just, you just won't get any better than that. Is it sometimes that you, you know, it's easier not to, or it's more cost-effective and all those things. Yes. Like, I mean, I'm very aware of those things, but I think what becomes

so critical is, you know, in this season and the point of this podcast for me, I guess, is to really not underestimate your power, the need for people to see you, to hear your voice, to pay connection, attention to the things, you know, attention is the highest form of currency. I read this the other day and some of the things that I think will make you entirely more valuable to anybody in your group in this moment is making some real conscious choices in the next little bit. If you're going to go out for dinner with your people, your friends, leave your phones in the car. If you do any human services work, and I mean, this is something that I've tried to practice in the last month, just the last month, is taking my watch off and leaving my phone outside

of the office when I see patients. I was always my phone outside of the office. When I see patients, I was always scared, right? Like what if I miss something? What if my kids are sick? They've survived before. And I will find out quickly when that session is over, we are, the capacity to be fully present with another human being these days is the ultimate gift. And if you can practice that a little more on purpose, I promise you, you will be so much better for it. You will be so much better for it. So there you have it for today, my friends. I, um, this concept is something that I'm working out in my brain. So thank you for sitting with me for this last little bit, as I try to like navigate my first step of really what this means. And I'm so excited to have more conversations in this regard. I'm, you know, it's, it's fostered so many ideas in my head around doing a documentary where we have these conversations where, what about like doing another, a tour where we can manage some of these conversations in person. And I just like, I cannot wait. Some of the best, you know, interactions I've had, you know, in some of

our talks lately have been with people who just have struggled so long for somebody to hear them. And I just, I love being present in those moments. Um, because it is such a gift. And when you can, when you have the capacity and PS, you do have that capacity every single day to give it away. Um, it's the reason we're here. It truly is a reason we're here. So thank you for being here today. Always such a privilege to hold some space and to have you give me your time. So thank you for that today.

And, um, whatever you're doing today, I hope you drop your shoulders and know just how much you matter to so many. It's a gift we will never automate, my friends. And take care of each other this week. And I hope I meet you right back here next week. The Everyone Comes From Somewhere podcast is produced by the incredibly talented and handsome team at Snack Labs. Mr. Brian Seaver, Mr. Taylor McGilvery, and the infamous Jeremy Saunders. The soundtracks that you hear at the beginning of every episode were created by Donovan Morgan. Our executive producer is Marty Piller. Our PR big shooters are Des Veneau and Barry Cohen. Our agent, my manager, Jeff Lowness from the Talent Bureau. And emotional support, of course, is provided by, relatively speaking, our children. For the record, I am a registered clinical psychologist in Alberta, Canada.

The content created and produced in this show is not intended as specific therapeutic advice. The intention of this podcast is to provide information, resources, education, and maybe even a little bit of hope. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, We'll see you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca.