Unlonely with Dr. Jody Carrington - They’ve never been told to write their story: Todd Baratz

Episode Date: June 6, 2024

Todd Baratz is a renowned psychotherapist and sex therapist whose innovative approach to mental health and relationships has established him as a leading figure in his field. In addition to his clinical practice, Baratz is a prolific writer and speaker. His insights are regularly featured in various media outlets, where he discusses topics ranging from romantic relationships to individual mental wellness. He lives in New York City and Los Angeles. Learn more on Instagram under his handle @YourDiagnonsense.In this episode Dr. Jody and Todd chat all about the sex, relationships and all the good/bad in between.Todds Links:InstagramWebsite Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at one you need, whenever you need it. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. At the beginning of every episode, there will always be time for an acknowledgement. You know, the more we do this, people ask, why do you have to do the acknowledgement and every episode? I got to tell you, I've never been more grateful for being able to raise my babies on a land where so much sacrifice was made. And I think what's really critical in this process is that the ask is just

that we don't forget. So the importance of saying these words at the beginning of every episode will always be of utmost importance to me and this team. So everything that we created here today for you happened on Treaty 7 land, which is now known as the center part of the province of Alberta. It is home of the Blackfoot Confederacy, which is made up of the Siksika, the Kainai, the Pekinie, the Tatina First Nation, the Stony Nakota First Nation, and the Métis Nation Region 3. Our job, our job as humans, is to simply acknowledge each other. That's how we do better, be better, and stay connected to the good. welcome back welcome in you saucy chickens. Do I? Listen, I've missed you. I'm so glad you're back. I say this at the beginning of a lot of episodes, but today I really want you to buckle up, okay? Because what we don't talk a lot about around here is sex.

Now, I am very, very open with my, I don't know, what I think about people and humans and relationships. And the thing I don't talk a lot about is sex. I think it like in my Catholic white girl core is like blasphemy. And so I could not think of a better human to introduce you to in this community so that we can like bust apart all of these things and have these great conversations that I think are now more important than ever, particularly in this disconnected world. How do relationships work? How is intimacy, sexual relationships becoming something that we need to talk so much about more? And I honestly, when I watch my babies growing up and, you know, developing their access to pornography, their access to sort of understanding how intimacy should play out in relationships is so fucked up. And I also think

about, you know, we're in this transitional phase between sexual and be, you know, with the lights off between two people, what does that look like? So we're going to just dive into all of it. Monogamy, polygamy. I'm so interested to all of your conversation, but let me introduce you to this phenomenal soul first. Okay. Now, I think what's really amazing about this, Todd Baratz is a renowned psychotherapist and sex therapist whose innovative approach to mental health and relationships has established him as a leading figure in his field. In addition to his clinical practice, Todd is a prolific writer and speaker. His insights are regularly featured

in various media outlets where he discusses topics ranging from romantic relationships to individual mental wellness. He lives in New York City and Los Angeles. Apparently he lives everywhere. He spends a lot of time on instagram and i'll tell you how we met is we both spoke at the same event um with the likes of many people um where we were

asked to sort of give our perspectives on relationships and what we need these days as the world blows apart in this big disconnection mess and so so Todd, listen, he got his BA at NYU. He's legit. He's master's at the University of Miami. He's certified in doing this work from all of these, as we've talked about, illustrious organizations that just give you the rubber stamp, say you're good. And he's so legit that I really needed you to hear his perspective today. So Todd, here's what I say around here all the time. The difference between empathy and judgment lies in our ability to know somebody's story. The context matters. Okay.

Prerequisite to empathy. So tell me, how do you come? Anyway, welcome Todd Bratz go no I missed it you froze right at the pivotal moment did I freeze? yeah you said so tell me and then you froze and then we came back

you did a whole thing oh I did a big intro where like the crowd went wild people were losing their fucking minds it was so beautiful oh fuck and exactly and then now I was like where do you come from tell me the story where do I come from yeah I come from Newton Massachusetts which is a suburb outside of Boston um I was put in therapy as a very little kid. It was the one good thing my parents did for me. Um, and I've been in therapy ever since, like quite literally, I don't think I, maybe I've missed a week. I'm 37 now, I'm going to be 38. I maybe have missed one week since I was like 10. Um, and, uh, yeah, therapy completely changed my life. So I became a therapist, like, and not only changed my life, but saved my life. And so I became a therapist. And it's a really big part of what I do for work, but it's also a very big part of, I really do. I was going to say, unfortunately, unfortunately, fortunately,

um, I feel as if it's a big piece of my identity, um, because it's not just what I do for work. It's often just how I think about the world and life and myself and my love people that I love and how I have sex and everything. It's my spirituality in a way. Um, so it's a big piece of who I am. So tell me about growing up in this town. You know, you said the one good thing my parents did to me. Talk to me about your relationship with your parents. You have siblings. What did that look like for you growing up in this place?

Yeah, my family was chaotic and crazy and dysfunctional. Um, my dad was severely disabled with literally every kind of illness and issue you could think of so that's why they sent me to therapy because i was struggling with that and my family was all struggling with that um siblings all the brothers i'm the baby um so it was just it was just tough and then that compounded with being gay and growing up in the 90s where, you know, I think it was just like Will and Grace was the primary gay thing that we knew about. But it was still gay marriage was not a thing. It was still a very shameful experience. So the compounding effect had a really was really, really hard for me, which is why therapy was so impactful.

I don't think I really would have gotten through that period of my life without it. And I actually still see the same therapist that I started seeing when I was 15, Derek. I write about him a lot in my book. He's been like a surrogate father for me my entire life. I see him, I saw him yesterday. Yesterday? What is today? So whatever. I saw him this week. I see him every week. Um, we text, we email, um, and we've been doing that since I was 15. So it's been a really long, long relationship. Um, that's changed my life. So, um, And, and, and summarize that for me, you know, because there's, you know, as you know, in our work, mental health, the support of a therapist is still so stigmatized. I would think equally in Canada and the U.S. around, you know,

like, what's the point? Why should we put all of the shit that's happening in our lives in the lap of somebody else? Like, how does that, how does it help? I think it's interesting that we think we should, like, you know, why, how does it help that we're coming from it from that place as opposed to why, you know, why don't, why don't we do, I think everybody should be assigned a therapist. Everyone should get a Derek when they're a kid. I mean, especially during childhood, even for the kid, for the parents, for everyone. I mean, everybody needs a life guide. And it's kind of wild that we don't get assigned that at birth, that parents don't get assigned, you know, parent training, that their

kids don't get assigned the special person to help them throughout their life that isn't just their parents. We all need help. And I think the idea is that most people think they should just move through life based on their guttural reactions and instincts and what they know, despite what they know being so deeply biased and full of triggers and wounds. But the reality is, is that we need help. We need a guide. It's my first time living and, you know, I don't necessarily, I'm not going to get into reincarnation, but, you know, it's my first time. So I don't, I don't necessarily, I'm not going to get into reincarnation. But, you know, it's my first time. So I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. And I've really needed a lot of help.

And I think everybody does need a lot of help. But it's wild that we live in a culture that's like, you don't need any help. Do it all on your own. Right. And there's no script for it. And I think about that especially today. No script, no map, nothing. Right.

Especially today. Right. And I feel like every generation that's come before us have also not had a script. Right. I think exponentially in this moment, we've advanced beyond human scale and it's this interesting thing, you know, how, how does intimate relationships play into that? You know, I mean, okay, so first of all, how'd you get into this? So you decided you want to be a therapist because the experience of therapy was something that was so transformative for you and you never looked back. Like what, what has this been like in your training? How

does it lead you to this most intimate experience in relationships? Yeah. Well, Derek is actually a sex therapist. Um, he's a pretty well-known respected sex therapist. And, um, from a very early age, she was asking me questions like, do you like your dick? I was like 14. I was like, I don't know. And so that made it really safe for me

to talk about being gay or to talk about at the time, I didn't know what I was. I didn't know what gay meant. So I had just operated under the assumption that in therapy, sex was just something that was always talked about. I didn't know that, you know, and what was it? 2099 or something that people didn't

talk about sex in therapy. I knew that no one told me about sex and that in school, no one was talking about sex, but I figured that was just part of therapy. And so then when I got to school and no one was actually talking about sex, we had one class on sex including like LGBTQ and cultural competence and actual sex and couples and sex and I'm just like what um what is this uh it was a great class but like you need a little bit more yeah if you're going to be working couples, if you're going to work with queer people completely different things. So then I was like, Oh, okay, this is just what I'm going to do. And it mostly just came out of my own, again, sexual issues. I think that's what I talked about in the, the, what,

that we did that we were at together. You know, I had sexual problems and that's and understanding them and understanding the deeper meaning blew my mind for myself and i was like i want to help people understand that too because if they can understand that like wow that will be really fucking cool for them too um so it all of this comes from personal experience i don't know you know is that is that something that you that led you you to doing what you do as well? I mean, I think all of us therapists, we have some hugely personal story that I don't think people realize. A hundred percent. And I think we're all narcissists. Right. And toxic.

I think that's so true in so many ways. You know, we have, we all have a story. And I I think when you're put in when you're put in the position to sort of help other people through their processes, it's like you clearly have your shit together, which is so much better with other people's children. And I think this is so true as physicians or nurses or therapists is that we understand the concept and it's so much easier to walk other people through it, which is why we all need therapists too, right? But it doesn't mean that if I can't figure out how to use the stuff in my world, my story to assist you, then not acknowledging that is a huge mistake, right? Because it really clouds the way, as you said, as you stepped into your classes, you had a completely different experience than somebody who hasn't come from a marginalized position or is in this very privileged place. Or I think about this so much, you know, when we start to think

about, you know, how do we think about hard conversations? And me as a white, straight, able bodied woman, what gives me the right? And so much of this is, I think, the truth about therapy is this is not actually using what I know to be true to influence your life. Do I have the capacity to sink in with you to what's going on for you? Because I've sunk into what how I've got here to this date and it's never an end game. No, no, no. I mean, it's hard to, to, I mean, people will definitely say, well, you know, you have access to all of this privilege, but, and which is very true. Um, however, it's important to use some of that information that we've the resources like I most of the clients and the couples and individuals that I see you know they're just entering therapy for

the first time in their 30s 40s or 50s and um I it always makes me realize just how fucking lucky I I've been you know that while my family was an absolute disaster, dumpster fire, I was really lucky that I got to go to therapy at such a young age at such a crucial time that the majority of people are really just starting to unpack themselves and their lives and their families, you know, midlife. And that's just really fucking hard. You know, I can't even imagine the amount of denial and defenses that have been built up over all of those decades. You really being able to say these things like you're not fucked up, but the culture in which you're raised in is or, you know, your experience of your story is. And so these days that's happening the most in couples relationships? Like what are the biggest mistakes, if that's even a word, that people are making these days? What do people bring to you the most, do you think? They don't have an awareness of who they are. People don't know themselves. And again, it's because they've

never been given permission to know themselves. They've never been told to write their story. They've never been encouraged. They've never been asked, you know, which in and of itself is a loss to process. But most people that I see, individuals or couples, they don't know themselves. They don't know their partners. They don't know their partners. They don't know their history. They don't know what's coming up for them. They are reactive mostly to things in the present, despite those things being driven by the past. And so for me, that makes things easier because then I'm like, okay, I know exactly what I can do with you. I'm going to give you self-awareness and empower you to understand yourself and empower you to feel more curious about your partner and empower you both to be

more curious about each other. Because we live in a world that doesn't do that and dismisses and minimizes. So yeah, that is the biggest thing that I see across the board is just a total lack of awareness, a total lack of self-understanding. And it's really it's a huge barrier for connection. first of all why do you think that is why do you think that so many of the people we get the privilege to see haven't reflected much because i think oftentimes people say this to me like does it always come back to your childhood and i was like fuck yes but it doesn't mean it has to define you i think that's what people get scared right people get scared by does that have to define you no but you have to understand it so So it always, why do you think we have such a hard time reflecting on that? Why do you think we're, you know, always in this place of not understanding where we come from? Because we've never been told to really until recently.

I mean, I, I was like, I don't remember what I was reading or what I was doing, but talking about trauma and just how trauma, we often talk about what happened, but we don't talk about who let it happen and the different systems in place and people that we see and neighborhoods we live in where people don't ask what's going on at home. People don't ask, how are you feeling? You know, I had a, what are they called in school? What are they called? A counselor? how are you feeling? You know, I had a, what are they called in school? What are they called? A counselor?

What are they called? School counselor. School counselor. Yeah. Guidance counselor. That's what it was. Same thing. She was the sweetest and I was visibly depressed.

But also there was nothing they were going to do. They couldn't do anything. I mean, I mean, we've, we learn how not to be curious about ourselves because no one's curious about us. We could come from a home where there's domestic violence and go to school and no one will know. And so that happens so much And that's a child. And so whatever the issues are, I mean, even if it's not domestic violence and it's just attachment trauma, people are not asking kids, what's your attachment relationship like with your parents?

How are they there? And that's not a read on parents. It's just a read on how broken some of these systems are that things can happen to us and no one knows. And we don't even know ourselves until we're 30 or 40. So the reason why people don't automatically or reflexively reflect upon their childhood or their past is one, they're ashamed of it too. They've been indoctrinated basically, as we all have not to reflect.

And so people don't, but I think it's a cultural issue that often gets overlooked. It's just the way that we think about things. The holidays are coming, and nobody wants to deal with seasonal bugs making their way through the family. That's where Maple comes in. No more scrambling for open clinics during holiday festivities.

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dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not, just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push, find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. It is the way that we think about things. And I got to say this, you know, I do a lot of work in schools and oftentimes the primary focus always is the child. I mean, that is what we're doing here. And I always say to them, I understand that, but as a child psychologist, I can see

a kid in therapy gold standard for an hour a week for the rest of your days till you're 65. Fantastic. I'd love to do that. I'll take your money, $2.50 an hour. Bring it. But if I put them back into a war zone every single night, it is a waste of time. And so I think we've all been really indoctrinated to believe, you know, for sure, what we talk about is client privilege. There's safety in that process. Confidentiality really matters. But I think it's necessary in so many ways these days to start to rewrite the rules of how we do mental health work, which is really bringing in the systems. Now, our forefathers of therapy have been saying this for years. We've been overrun by a cognitive behavioral way of operating, which is let's just look at the symptom and attempt to fix it. And it is brutal. And it's

never been more, I mean, not CBT in and of itself, right? If it's done correctly, it's done within a larger system. It's complete medical model. I think you're absolutely right. And I think that, you know, there's so much about this process that is so interesting because we want to fix the problem, but we always forget that it happens within a system about my patient or, you know, the systems in which we work. But what happened to you is the question. And I love how you expanded on that. People don't know what happened to them. But they don't have words and they can't communicate it. And to be clear, I don't know what the solution is. I have no fucking idea.

All I know is that this is a really big part of the story that gets left out when a couple comes to see me and, you know, the question becomes, well, why don't they know that, you know, that their parent being on work trip or whatever, I don't know. Why don't they know these things? And this is why. Well, and I would say, I mean, part of the answer to this, and I, of course, I don't have the answer either. Here's what I think about all the time, though, is that when you start to fill those in, and social workers are better at this than I think, you know, psychologists tend to be sometimes in this world of counseling, where like there is the systemic issue that we

think about all the time. When I started using genograms, echo maps, putting people's stories down on paper in front of them, it was some of the most profound work that we ever did because it was like, wait just a second, right? I never thought about that. My dad was in jail. Huh? You think he had mental health issues? Well, fuck if I know, but like, let's talk about that. What do you remember? Oh my God, I was so scared of him all the time. But this isn't about my dad. My dad was a dick. I never saw him. Right. Yeah. So it's almost like weaving together that story that no doubt then plays out in your relationships. And to your point, no doubt plays out in the bedroom. Can you, can you tell me about that? You know,

but for sure around this intimate place, because I think even in my couple's work, some of the hardest fucking sessions that I ever have is being brave enough to ask questions about couples' intimate lives and their sex lives because it doesn't, I think, come as natural, thankfully, to you as it did maybe, but to all of us. Like, tell me about why that is so important maybe these days now more than ever.

Well, I mean, this is what I talked about at Real Love Ready, is that people often think that sex is just about some physical genital or an orgasm. But the way that we have sex is no different than the way that we give and receive love. It's just another version of it. And so especially when it comes to our long-term partners or short-term partners, whatever the depth of emotional intimacy is, there's going to be a lot of meaning, psychological, philosophical meaning in how we express ourselves sexually. So what turns us on, what turns us off, and what barriers get in the way of turning us on. And so a lot of this is connected to attachment issues. A lot of it is connected to

how we initially grew up. A lot of it is connected to all of these cultural issues that we're talking about in terms of the systems that really teach us how to feel sexual anxiety or teach us how to feel sexual shame and withdraw and avoid. So, you know, when we're thinking about sex and relationships, this is initially what drew me to it is that I found it so fascinating that I could think about, okay, so I would go into my therapy session and I would say, you know, I was with this guy and he was really hot and I really liked him. This was our third or whatever date. And I'm really anxious about it. And I couldn't get hard. You know, then my therapist would be like, okay, well, you know, you want to go there, but your dick doesn't. I want, you know, what's going on. And I would tell him about the guy and whatever. And he was like, well, I mean, no wonder you're not getting aroused. You're anxious. You don't trust him. He blew you off the week before.

And you don't know if you can fully trust him. So your dick is doing the work that your mind can't. And I was like, oh, okay. So this is about more than just see hot person that I want to be with, get hard, get off. Oh, I'm not, I'm more than just a machine. I'm a person. And so this is, I mean, that was a small example, but it's a really important piece of how we experience our sexuality is that we might not be thinking, I don't trust this person or they're ridiculous. But for some of us, we have such a sensitive system that unless all of the cards align and we trust and we feel safe and whatever, I'm talking about myself, but many of my clients as well, and many people in general, our bodies aren't going to cooperate. And it's an unconscious expression

of something that we've held onto, of some kind of anxiety, of some kind of shame, of some kind of fear. And for me, in these cases, it was a fear of being abandoned, a fear of being rejected. And as that fear of being abandoned connects to my trauma of being abandoned, you know, it's not like I wasn't abandoned as a kid. I was, that's why. And it translates into my sexuality as well, where my body just says, I'm not going to be that vulnerable. Fuck you. Not going to do it. And many people have the same reaction depending on what their trauma is. It will be stirred up during sex. Interesting. Can it change when you're in a marriage. What is the explanation for that? You know, you're in the honeymoon phase, you are, you can have sex with somebody and it's a, you know, you could feel

really great about it on the second date. How come, you know, what comes into play in many of our marriages when we start to talk about, we lose the spark. What's your take on those things? Well, I mean, it's constantly changing whether you're married, not married, whether it's casual sex, long-term sex, friend sex, whatever kind of sex, it's constantly changing. And there's a variety of reasons as to why it's changing. Similarly, as we were talking about context and systems, it's the same exact reasons why. There are many systems in a couple's relationship that will inform their desire and how it changes and when it changes and why it changes and how to get it back. Many couples' desire declines, particularly right after they move in with one another, particularly after they have a kid. Job loss, all contextual issues that involve stress or big change brings potential for big change.

Few couples will experience an increase in desire after moving in with one another. And many people want to talk about this in terms of logistics, which, yes, logistics, but also emotional intimacy. For some, the transition going from living apart to together is a real huge place where there's a lot of emotional intimacy being increased. And in that context, many people's desire dissipates. And so there are logistical reasons, meaning, you know, maybe they're not putting effort into getting dressed, or they're not going on dates, or it's not a priority because you're always together. Or it could be something more of a relational dynamic in terms of conflict, or they're pissing you off, or you don't want to look at them, or you can't

stand the smell of their breath after they eat. Who knows? But so anyway, there are just so many contextual issues, just like there are so many contextual issues for us in non-sexual areas. So, you know, contextualizing, understanding these complex systems and the things that inform how we experience our bodies is really important. That was a run-on sentence, but. No, no, no. I think that's brilliant. There's 150 questions I have in there. One of my questions is how often do people confuse, and maybe that's not even the word, emotional intimacy with sex? So when their sexual relationship starts to decline or they feel less turned on, connected to their partner, how often do you see this in therapy, right? When people then start to question, does that mean I don't love you anymore? the connection between, I think, my question is about like the question between love and sexual intimacy. Do you see people confusing the two of those things often? Or how do you pull those two apart? Can you, do you? Well, I see sex as a version of love, as love. We could say

as a love language, even though I'm kind of over the whole idea of love languages, but it's just a great fucking metaphor, I guess. But it's a way that we communicate love, just like a hug would be, or just like when we say I love you, or if we just hold our partners. It's no different. And actually, I think it is often the most powerful way to communicate love because it's actually the most vulnerable thing we could do with a partner. And for most relationships that are monogamous, it's, you know, that's the only person we're saying we're going to do it with anyway. So, you know, we're centralizing sex even. So I don't know what you would ask me. I'm getting off track. No, you're not. You're doing great. What did you ask me?

I wanted to know, you know, oftentimes I see in my practice. Oh, loving sex. Right. People are like, we're not having sex anymore. Um, I'm repulsed, you know, we, we, our kids are moving on like, you know, does this mean we shouldn't be together? We were having sex once a month, once a year, once a quarter, you know, like, does that people, people often define their relationships. Yeah. Um, I was saying, you know, responding to something else. But it depends. It depends what people want. You know, I think if someone comes into me and they're like,

I think my partner is repulsive and disgusting and I get the ick, you know, that might be hard to work on their sexual attraction if they have none. But if it's about desire, if it's about boredom, if it's about a lack of sexual connection, I see a lot of couples that never had a sexual connection. They've been together for two decades, never had a sexual connection, did it missionary penetration only on Sundays when the kids went to bed, you know, or whatever. It was a mechanical thing. And that's not fun or exciting. So it involves, you know, a real kind of relearning of desire, eroticism, and all of the things that feel fun and sexy. But it really depends on, you know, what each individual wants. And the challenge with that is that it's very, very hard

for people to be fully honest with themselves and their partners when it comes to sex. And that's why when I'm seeing a couple and it's a sexual issue, I always meet with them individually a few times because I'm like, what aren't you saying? What do you want to say without your partner present? Because many people are afraid to say that they want to be whipped and tortured or that they're not interested in having sex with their partner or that they want to have a threesome or whatever. Um, and there's just so much fear wrapped up that they, um, have shut themselves off with their partner. So where am I going with this? It depends what people want. Um, no, I, I think I'm, I'm under the impression that if two people have been together for a while and they love each other and they want to make it work, they can figure it out. So long as they have some level of attraction to one another. If they do not have a level of attraction and there's the ick and they're like,

you know, that's not going to happen. Yeah. And figuring out why that is, right, becomes really critically important, I think sometimes. And you're right. You know, there's sometimes you can't get around that. But the issue is how did that, what's the story? And I think you can be in love with the same person and you develop different relationships to them over the time that you evolve because we're also in a different place. We've never seen ourselves maybe as a mom and in a sexual relationship. We've never seen ourselves as a grandmother and in a sexual relationship. What's in our story that happened in our own sequence of things that then is now playing out in our current relationship,

despite the fact that we've been with the same person for a very long period of time. And I think all of those... I was going to say, either way, no matter what the presenting theme is, I always make... I always encourage my couples to work on it regardless. You know, worst case scenario, it doesn't work.

A hundred percent. And it's okay if it doesn't work. I think that's also the full permission that we're really in this place of figuring out. And in that vein, I'm so interested in a couple of things. When you see, you know, there's some conversation in the data around monogamy and polygamy and the idea of open marriage, open relationship. What do you see happening, you know, in your space with regard to those conversations? I mean, a lot of permission, encouragement and diversity. You i don't uh all relationships are problematic everyone's fucking annoying all relationships have a lot of fucking issues it doesn't matter

if you're monogamous yeah if you think the answer is in the structure of your if it's monogamous or non-monogamous or polyamamorous, or whatever, you're wrong. It's each version, each structure is going to come with its own unique set of problems. So, you know, I just, and most people, I think we just want to encourage people to make the decision for themselves with their partners. And, you know, I think there's a lot of talk about, you know, so many problems with non-monogamy, so many problems with monogamy. I mean, this is not a moral issue. It's not.

You know, this is an individual preference. It's like, do you like chicken or fish? What would you prefer? How much spice do you want? I mean, I don't like the spice example, but I mean, it's really, I think about an individual preference and two or two individual preferences and how you negotiate that,

if that includes more people or just the two people or whatever, is that we're entering a period of relationships where we're co-creating them in a different way. And the options are a bit more than what I think we all grew up in and had internalized. But seeing couples that are monogamous and seeing couples that are non-monogamous and seeing couples that are polyamorous, you know, they all have issues and they're all loving. And they all struggle with the same versions of disappointment and the same versions of jealousy. And, you know, I mean, it's all there. Monogamous couples are jealous too. Of course. And so what I'm hearing you say, you know, even when we talk about,

you know, this idea of making our relationships either, you know, in any capacity, it really does come down to this idea of communication and connection. And I mean, I think I'll circle back to this idea about why therapy becomes important in that process is that it's really hard to rewrite the dance of communication if you've been doing it in a way since the inception of your relationship. And I'm not suggesting that we always need a therapist. Actually, I'm suggesting that. I think that therapy is for everybody. But access to that, I know, is an issue. Being able to afford it is an issue, all those things. But I think what I love the most about what you're saying is communication matters most.

And I think if we've never talked about some of these things, which for many couples, you know, talking about sex, making jokes is one thing. Talking about intimacy and what you want and what it feels like and how that changes or might not change is got to be such a hard thing for so many people. It's hard for everybody. Is it? It's hard for everybody. I mean, it's hard for me. Which is great. I mean, and I think normalizing some of that is really critically important, right? When do you suggest is the best time to have those conversations? Like if you're going to engage in trying to open up a communication with your partner around issues that get a little bit closer to this place of intimacy? Like when, how, what are some of the things you suggest to your clients?

It doesn't matter. Really? No. I mean, if your partner's crying about, you know, someone died, don't do it then. But I mean, you know, the question of when is really a question of what's the anxiety about, you know, why not? If we were going to ask, what do you want for dinner? We wouldn't be like, well, when do I ask that? Is 10 in the morning too early? Is one too late?

I have to buy groceries. Right. I think we work very hard not to do it, you know, wonder when the right time is. I think, you know, from my perspective, the issue is don't try to have this conversation after somebody has not been able to engage intimately with you. Don't have this conversation when you are upset about the particular relational issue. Oftentimes, I think it's best to do this when you're regulated. Yeah, true. Would that be fair to say? Yeah. I mean, in an ideal world, we'd be calm, cool, and collected, and we'd say, honey, let's talk about sex. Let's have a glass of wine. Let's be like, here's what I think is amazing about you.

But yeah, I mean, when you're not activated and triggered would be a great time. But I think, you know, the conversation's just got to start. So many people are just avoiding, avoiding, avoiding, and trying to find the right words at the right time. And it's just another mode of resistance. So just start whenever you can. OK. And how? I mean, how do you do you just really laid on the line? Like, I mean, I guess how important is clarity in these situations? Are you like, hey, listen, I want to like, you tell me. Well, it really depends on the issue. If it's

about a mismatch and desire, one partner is high desire. One partner wants low desire. You know, the conversation is really, it's hard to have, but it's simple in, in logistics in terms of just saying, Hey, um, can we talk about sex? Um, you know? Notice that I have a high desire and you have a low desire, and this is creating a dynamic between us. Can we please talk about this? Can you tell me what's going on for you, and I'll tell you what's going on for me. We can take turns, which might sound excruciating,

but the reality is what's even more excruciating is not having the conversation and then being passive aggressive and or your partner's passive aggressive. And what's the matter? Nothing. Are you sure everything's OK? Yeah, I'm fine. You know, it's like that's worse. So and I find that once people get started instantaneously, the excruciation of having the conversation dissipates and it becomes more of

a connective moment. I've never seen an individual or a couple who I encouraged to have any conversation about sex that come back and be like, it was a bloodbath. It was terrible. You know, it's usually people come back and they're like, yeah, we talked about it and it was totally fine. And then I asked about what they said and it wasn't enough. And I'm like, okay, well, now you can go back and have another conversation with them about it every week. And have this be an ongoing part of conversation about sex, closeness, and connection. Because that's what it has to be. It's not, you know, when to find the right time to have this one conversation. It's when do you start the conversation?

How do you build it into an ongoing dynamic between you and your partner? Because it's required. And the same thing goes, though, for a variety of other things like affection, verbal, physical, a variety of things. Texting, even. People really struggle to verbalize themselves and to ask for things, whether it's sex, a hug, more love, whatever version of love they're seeking, um, is really hard for people to ask for. Um, and so the sexual conversation isn't really any different than the couples I see who don't touch or hug or hold. Um, someone says, I want to be, I want to cuddle the, the feelings of discomfort and

asking for that are no different than I want to have more sex. It's the same, it's the same kind of thing. A hundred percent. And I would just say, you know, if you're listening to this, I think the issue is you deserve it. And I think, you know, I, I think it's sometimes for some people I'm making a huge assumption here, right. Um, is it's uncomfortable and you'd rather just like sort of let things, you know, it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. And I think we do that with a lot of issues in our life. And I think what becomes really critical these days, the more disconnected we are, we look at our partners far less than the generations before us did, mostly because we have so many more exit ramps. Our proximity in the places that we're raising our children or, you know, getting into relationships have expanded exponentially. And then the opportunities when we're together, right? If we think about even our grandparents, I other and get that sort of intuitive sense of you don't like this, or this doesn't feel good

to you, or, oh, sorry, you wanted me to listen to you more. My husband and I can have full conversations where both of us are on our phones. How much of that, and I mean, in the same room, talking about our children, right? How much of that do I really intuitively get what he needs or wants from me? And so I think doing this on purpose, it might feel even more awkward than it ever has in our history because a lot of people haven't had to do it to this degree that we're probably going to have to moving forward. Would you say? Yeah.

Yeah, I agree. It's also, that's a really important point. I would just tweak it a little bit in that I don't think people were having these conversations ever. They had more time, not on their phone, but I don't think they were having these conversations. I think people were probably spending more time together and more present in one way, but they certainly weren't talking about their emotions. They certainly weren't asking about each other's emotions.

They weren't having deep conversations. They weren't talking about their emotions. They certainly weren't asking about each other's emotions. They weren't having deep conversations. They weren't negotiating conflict. They weren't thinking about how they wanted to co-create relationships or a family. You know, the values around love and family life were completely different 20 years ago. Maybe they were more present, maybe, because the virtual reality wasn't necessarily an appendage. But I don't think that, I think this is the first time where we are in a place culturally where we're actually talking about things. I don't think people ever talked about their trauma or processed anything or even talked about sex.

I mean, especially they didn't talk about sex. But, you know, we could say that they were probably more present and sat in the grass a little bit longer, but maybe they were all dissociated because they were all so traumatized that no one was asking them about their trauma, that they were just in a state of dissociation. So no one was talking. So everybody's fucked and actually we're better than it's ever been. What a time to be alive. We now have a language for it. We're so excited to be able to sort of process with each other and we have to do it more each other. And we have to do it more. Yeah. And we have to do it more because we have so many exit ramps.

If only we could take advantage of it. Right. Well, that's why they need people like you and me to be able to assist them. Now, tell me a little bit about how to love someone without losing your mind. Why now? Why are you writing that? Why did you write that book? Tell me.

I mean, everybody can buy it. It comes out in June. It is going to be a fucking does like you're going to need this book. But I want to know how why you wrote it. Why now? And tell me the best parts about it. Why now? Well, I just I love writing. I've been writing on my social media for a long time and um I wanted to write something more substantial more in the real world not in the digital world um and yeah I mean it really just came from a personal place so I just really wanted to write a book um and kind of bring all of my ideas in one place. I mean, it was also, I had just gotten

out of my 10 year relationship and I was going through a breakup and it just felt like such a profound experience that, um, I wanted to share with people, especially just because, um, you know, in talking with my clients and talking to people on Instagram, everybody was struggling with similar issues and we are all struggling with similar issues. And so I really wanted to write a book that was about me, a therapist, my clients and the world. And so I that's what I did. I blended my story, my client story and the stories that we've been talking about today and the systems and cultures and intergenerational histories to tell an overall story about love life and live life, fuck and all that shit. But, you know, it came from a personal place. All of that shit. That's what you're going to get when you get how to love someone without losing your mind.

I can't wait to read it, Todd, because I think that your perspective is profound. I think it is so needed in this world. I think that I just knew I was so grateful when I knew we got to work together at that event. And quite honestly, I mean, that's where I found you, your work. And I'm just I'm so honored that you would sit with me today. I think that the world needs a whole lot more of what you're doing. And I know that everything that you need to learn about Todd, I'm going to put in the show notes. I'm just so grateful for for what you do for humans in this world.

I am so hopeful we get to work together again. Thank you, dear. Me too. We will. Because I think you're just getting started. I think there's going to be some easy things. So June what? When does the book come out?

June what? June 4th. Be ready. Be ready. Are you doing a book tour? No. I'm doing a podcast tour. I'm on it right now with you.

That's right. That's right. That's right. And I get to be on your podcast so stay tuned for that but in the meantime everybody where where where can people find you the best find me on instagram at your diagnosis which is the best handle of all fucking time okay yeah I wish I came up with it I you can own it. You can own it. I love it. Take care of you, everybody. Take care of each other. And Mr. Tabaretz, this was the best part of my day. So thank you.

Same to you. Thanks for having me. The Everyone Comes From Somewhere podcast is produced by the incredibly talented and handsome team at Snack Labs. Mr. Brian Seaver, Mr. Taylor McGilvery, and the infamous Jeremy Saunders. The soundtracks that you hear at the beginning of every episode were created by Donovan Morgan. Our executive producer is Marty Piller. Our PR big shooters are Des Veneau and Barry Cohen. Our agent, my manager, Jeff Lowness from the Talent Bureau. And emotional support, of course, is provided by, relatively speaking, our children.

For the record, I am a registered clinical psychologist in Alberta, Canada. The content created and produced in this show is not intended as specific therapeutic advice. The intention of this podcast is to provide information, resources, education, and maybe even a little bit of hope. We'll see you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push.

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