Unlonely with Dr. Jody Carrington - This Is Why You Lose Arguments: Even When You’re Right - Rebecca Zung

Episode Date: July 23, 2026

What do you do when you feel unheard…misunderstood…or completely shut down in a conversation that matters?This episode with Rebecca Zung is a game-changer.Because the truth is, most of us were never taught how to navigate high-conflict situations. We either shut down… or we explode. And neither works.In this conversation, we dive into what it actually takes to:Stay regulated when everything feels intenseBe heard in conversations where you’ve felt invisibleAnd negotiate from a place of power—not panicBecause here’s the shift:It’s not about controlling the other person…It’s about learning how to lead yourself first.And when you do that? Everything changes.This one is for:– The people navigating hard relationships– The ones stuck in conflict at work or at home– And anyone who’s ever thought, “Why can’t I just say what I mean and be understood?”You can. You just need a roadmap.Go listen and take your power back.Follow Rebecca Here:https://www.facebook.com/rebeccazung/https://x.com/rebeccazunghttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnhT4fBE1OWOn7c0Quxdf4whttps://www.instagram.com/rebeccazung/https://vm.tiktok.com/ZSeqgmeWa/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, welcome back to another episode of the Unloney podcast. And today, listen, I have one of the most incredible lawyers in the United States of America. And I came across her work and I was just, listen, I was interested in creating spaces for people where they can feel and see. they can feel heard. And I can't think of a place where people feel less heard these days than in contentious situations. So I think often about like messy divorces

or you're sitting at a workplace and you're trying to sort of be understood. And today you're going to meet Rebecca Zung. She is a high conflict negotiation expert, a U.S. news recognized best lawyer in America and a USA Today bestselling author. Speaking on platforms worldwide, she has also written several books, including Slay the Bulley,

how to negotiate with a narcissist and win. And her YouTube channel has tens of millions of views. Her podcast, Negotiate Your Best Life, which has now been turned into leverage, has 2 million downloads and is in the top 0.5% of podcast globally. I got to do an episode with her prior to jumping in today on Unlonely, so you can check both of them out. But what I think is really interesting is we talk a lot today about her sleigh method. And I'm, you know, I'm often sort of like reticent to sort of like, okay, how did you make

something so easy that it has an acronym? But I really love how she's outlined so clearly when we're disregulated and overwhelmed and feeling unseen. What we need is a bit of a roadmap. And she's created that so beautifully and sort of, you know, how do we look after you so that you can get access the best parts of other people. So listen, she's in L.A. She is no longer practicing,

but is really all in on creating a safe place for people to understand how to organize themselves in presenting their case, really being heard in relationships where it's often been hard to be heard. So settle in, buckle up. She's so cool. You know, she's been featured in extra Forbes, Huffington Post, Newsweek, Time, Dr. Drew, NPR, the Mel

Robbins podcast, and many others. She's a mama for her. She's committed to sharing her secrets and empowering others to live their lives at the optimum level of success professionally and personally. And she's a goddamn rock star. We start the talk about, you know, just how do you get to be the top 1% of lawyers in the U.S. And so she's going to take you through all of that as I unpack it all with her.

So enjoy. Welcome back, welcome in. You just heard me do this, oh my gosh, this such an impressive introduction. But I want to start, Rebecca, at the top. Recognized within the top 1% of attorneys in the United States and repeatedly named a best lawyer in America by U.S. News. Help me understand how you get to be in the top 1% of lawyers in the United States of America. Tell me about this amazing one. You know, it's so interesting because there's a couple of different ways that they look at that, which is, you know, U.S. News, also Martindale Hubble, also, you know, some of these other organizations, which are highly vetted, well-known, you can't pay to get there, and they only select, you know, the top attorneys.

And I think they also look at doctors and, you know, everybody else as well. But I remember, it's so funny that you asked me this question because nobody else has asked me this. I remember when I was interviewing from my very first attorney job, I was still in law school. And I walked into the attorney's offices and in the reception area, they had this huge book. And it said, the best lawyers in America. and they had this velvet bookmark where their names were. And it was a U.S. News publication. And I remember thinking, oh, my gosh, it would be amazing to get in there someday.

And so the first year that I was selected, I thought, oh, my God, I've actually made it. It was such a huge thing for me to get that. there because it's it's your peers. It's your peers and it's your judiciary. It's not like a paid thing that you can just get in. Right, where people just vote. Yeah. I think that's amazing because you started as a teacher. You go, you went through law school as a mom. You did on your research. You did. Oh, I've did your research. I'm, I'm so interested now because, you know, you work with people who I think are so desperate to feel seen, to be heard in rooms and relationships where negotiating is tough.

You know, you talk about, you know, what happens when you're up against a narcissist, what happens when, you know, you're in high conflict places. And, you know, in my office, I see so many people who are just exhausted with trying to be seen and heard, particularly in contentious relationships, whether that's at work or, you know, in long-term marriages and you're navigating babies and stuff. Can you tell me what are like first of all, I guess my question is, are people getting more assholery-ish? In today's world, do you think that this, these, you know, who we've labeled sort of high contentious humans, people difficult to deal with, do you see that more often than not? I mean, I can tell you just from a law practice point of view, because I started practicing in 2000.

in. And from that perspective, I can tell you that when I first started, nobody used the word narcissist or anything like that. And nowadays, you hear it thrown around, you know, all the time. I mean, it really almost doesn't mean anything. And, you know, the judges certainly don't give it any credence at all at this point. Even if somebody is a diagnosed person, it doesn't really matter because it doesn't have anything to do with how they apply the law anyway. And so I think there has been an increase in at least awareness that I might be in a relationship that I should no longer tolerate. And I now have a name for it. You know, whereas at the beginning, when I first started practicing all the wives said their husbands were controlling and all the husbands said

their wives were crazy. And that was kind of the terminology that they used. But now everybody's just a narcissist or something. And so I just try to say constantly that, you know, it does not matter what the label is. And it does not matter what has happened, you know, or the smear campaign. or if you think somebody's biased against you or anything like that, because it really starts with you and your agency and your power and, and I had said to you on our other podcast, like there's no, there's not,

there's not a vaccine that you can go get to keep narcissists away from you. I mean, like, they're coming. They're around. It's, you know, there's high conflict people, difficult people,

it's going to be in your world regardless. it's how do you show up your triggers are your teachers right so how can you show up powerfully in a way that gives you agency because if you don't believe that you get the results then you're not getting them period end of story end of story your triggers are your teachers tell me a little bit about that well It's just, this is what, you know, and I've done a lot of personal development work on myself and just studied a lot of this stuff. And I can just tell you that if you are triggered, it should be a message to you, a big

huge flag to you about what it is that you need to heal inside yourself or look at inside yourself. And how can you take responsibility for that? Because the flip side of I have to take responsibility for this is I am responsible and I do get a say. And I do get to show up and have a, I get to be the deciding factor in all of this. And so, yes, maybe it's hard to shine a light on yourself sometimes. But, you know, what I always say is if somebody calls you a banana, you're not going to go, oh, how dare you call me that?

going to be like, well, obviously I'm not a banana, so all right, whatever. You wouldn't even think two seconds about that. But if somebody says you're a loser or you're terrible with money or you're responsible or you're, you know, it all comes back to, oh, geez, they must see this thing in me that's not worthy because we all have this unworthiness tape in our head in some way. And you feel exposed, insane. And so looking at that, and you're the psychologist, so you know this way better than me, but I can just tell you from a negotiation point of view, that's how people get the better of you. Because once your amygdala is hijacked and that limbic brain goes online and the prefrontal cortex goes offline, you're not in control anymore.

Yeah, I love that. And it's like, it's sort of like getting past this sort of idea that we have to like let it go or condone the behavior or support it. It's really about understanding it. And when you understand it, it gives you so much more agency, so much more of your own control. And you, I mean, what I love about your work, you sort of created a method. You call it the Slay method, which is sort of a blueprint for negotiation. Can you, can you walk us through a little bit of that? Because I hear so many people say to me like, okay, fine, fine, what am I supposed to do?

Like, he's this or they're that or she's this or she's that. And it's like, you're right. That is at, like, how have you survived that? It's not to discount any of that, right? It's like sort of how do we come back? No. Even in light of all of that. And it doesn't mean that they're right or wrong or anything like that.

And I always say to stop trying to make people wrong or you right or anything because it doesn't get you anywhere. Okay, great, you're right. Now what? You know? Yeah. So it's like, you get the prize. it's it's really a methodology that I came up with because you know sleigh is a great word for today and I happen to own the IP on it I must say but the the word sleigh is an acronym so S stands

for strategy and that is you know what is your vision where do you want to go what is it what outcome do you really want and be specific because if you're creating from the future instead of your old operating system passed, then you're going to start to be informed by that. That's going to start pulling you forward. And you can't just say, well, I want them to leave me alone or I want them to stop. It can't be about them. It's got to be about you.

What do you want specifically as your outcome? And I always say to people, you know, if you really want, want to get, have fun with it, it's, it's, what do you want of the outcome of this particular situation? What would be, if you could wave a magic wand, what would that look like? And then what do you want for your life? You know, do you want a beach house? You want, you know, a hot lover. You want, you know, whatever it is that you want, like just, you get to script it. Right. And, and so put that down. But for the outcome of the negotiation, if you could wave a magic wand, what would that look like? What would that look like for you? Okay. And be specific. You know, when you go into a restaurant,

you don't order food. You know, you tell the server, you know, I want the salmon. I want to, you know, seared. I would put, you know, the dressing on the side. Like, you're really, really specific. It's the same thing when you're negotiating. So that's strategy. Because then you can start to build a strategy and tactic to get there. Okay. L stands for leverage. And leverage, I always say there's a thousand different kinds of leverage. There's timing leverage, emotional leverage, situational leverage, identity leverage, information leverage, influence leverage. I mean, my next book is going to be on leverage. And I just renamed my podcast to leverage because, you know, this is what everybody wants leverage in some way. The whole world is built on how do I get leverage in a

situation. And when you're dealing with a high conflict personality, the leverage is always going to be informed by their image. And it's how do they look to the world? That's the thing that means the most to them and that they'll protect and defend more than anything. And they also often give you what I call gifts, which are lying or not showing up when they're supposed to or not paying when they're supposed to or having, you know, whatever it is. And instead, I always tell people to reframe how that shows up for you rather than they did this thing to me again, just go, well, thank you for the gift. And let me write this down because now I'm building a pattern. and patterns equal power. Right?

So let me document that. And that's where, you know, my new AI is helpful because we have an incident tracker built right into the AI so that you can just open your phone. Okay, date time. This is what happened. Upload any documentation that goes with it. Boom. Saved.

And now it starts building your timeline for you automatically. And timelines can frame narratives. Yeah. timelines can frame narratives. So, you know, like if, oh, this happened and now they escalated, look at the timeline. It shows that. It's not just a calendar of events. It's a narrative that gets framed. The Slay AI has really probably benefited that. Before we've jumped on, you know, Rebecca was just explaining that, you know, creating a easy way for people to sort of to control or to sort of put all their documentation together.

And then it separates it for you into create patterns. And I can imagine how important that is in leverage because we just, we get so overwhelmed, right? With like trying to convince somebody, like look at what's happened to me or, you know, look at how, how I just like the, the psychological warfare that goes on that you can't, you know, when you have five minutes in a courtroom or you're trying to even explain to your lawyer, like, look. And oftentimes, you know, we're not articulate or we don't know how to do it or we get fumbled.

And we just like, you know, people are like, mm-hmm. And if you have to explain that in front of a judge, you know, what a- you expect, what a beautiful gift is. Yes, yes. They're just going to see what they're just going to see it. But, you know, being able to take all of your documentation and find those patterns, patterns equal power, especially when you're trying to distill a story down, you know, it might be your three years or five years or ten years or whatever it is that you're dealing with.

And then you start to even realize it too. You start to realize, oh, my God, you know, I've had the same conversation with this person 12 times. And in 40 different ways, you know, like with the text and this and that, whatever. And then you start to be able to pull it all together. And the AI, my SLAI does that for people automatically. And it's really because of what you're saying, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, It's like no lawyer or employer or whoever it is that you're dealing with wants to look at your 35,000 screenshots and read through your three years of text messages and emails and talk to your 50 friends. They just don't want to.

We do not have that time, right? And the synthesis of that is phenomenal. And that you've really like leveraged, if there's that word again, you know, AI and how that that is the things it's good at, right? is the sorting and the decoding and, you know, not so that you have more human energy to sort of portray what then needs to happen with respect to the relationship part of things. And so I'm, I'm so fascinated by that. So strategy leverage and, and then A, what's the A? Anticipate. Anticipate. This is really for you. Again, it's all about agency, really all, every single one of them goes back to your agency. And anticipate means that you're going to anticipate that they're going to

try to bait you. They're going to try to trigger you. They're going to try to find those little areas of your weakness and niggle at them or use them against you in some way. Get your amygdala hijacked so that you do something that they can use against you. And then, you know, I always say to people, every text, every email, everything you put your hand to, every time you hit post on a social media, you are creating a potential trial exhibit. So just, just, Just imagine, do you want the judge like, you know, looking at this down the road because it will resurface if you've done something you're not supposed to. And don't give them that leverage, right? You know, don't give them the gifts. You're supposed to be thanking them for the gifts. And so how do you do

that? You have to have an arsenal of tools. So I have an arsenal of tools such as, you know, I always say I'm half Chinese and half German. And so I always say I have no fun jeans whatsoever. But I also say I always wear Jade. And Jade is an acronym for never justify, argue, defend, or explain. Because the moment you justify, argue, defend, or explain, you are giving away your power. You're saying, here you go. Here's my power.

You can have it. Another tool that I have, I have thousands of these. But another one that I have is SOS, which is. is when you feel triggered, stop, observe, speak. So stop is first. Just, you know, take a moment to breathe. Just a couple seconds is all it takes to just breathe. That helps to regulate your nervous system.

It helps to bring your thinking brain back online. And it also shifts the power dynamic, by the way. Observe, you start observing the situation as if you are a third. party just, oh, well, there they are being their narkey selves. Okay. And observe, don't absorb, respond, don't react. Just pretend like you put an invisible shield down around you. And then speak. Now you can speak, but you speak briefly and with boundaries. So your boundary is that you don't engage in a conversation that's not respectful. So you can say things like, this approach is not working for me. So having like just a few short phrases ready is really, really helpful. So,

you know, they can say whatever they want. They can say, you know what? You're a total loser and you're a horrible parent and whatever it is that they want to say. You just can go, I hear you. You know, you're just, you're observing it. You're just, and then you end the conversation. You end it because leaking boundaries means you're leaking power. And so you've got to shut that. down. There was so many things in the A that I was scribbling, right? The idea of like observe, don't absorb. I mean, the SOS, stop, observe, speak is just such a acronym for regulating the nervous system and coming back to the best parts of you because like the greatest power you don't want to give away is somebody to take that from you, right? Because that that happens so many times. And

your nervous system, dysregulation, I mean, it's contagious. So I, oh my goodness, I love this. Okay, so strategy leverage, anticipate, and then why? Why is you? And this is, you know, going back to what we were saying about, you deciding, you have the power, you know, focusing on you, your situation, being on the offensive instead of the defensive, you deciding that you have the ability to have control. You know, for many situations where, you know, people in my community, in my world, people are coming in in a, maybe a litigation setting or something like that, and they go, all I need is a really good lawyer. And then they feel victimized again because they're just giving way all their power to their lawyer and they're not going, well, how do I take control of this situation? Well, the lawyer knows the law, but they don't know my life. So I better organize my documentation and give them all the best parts and show them what's actually happening. Like, take control. And if you don't believe that you're going to get the results that you want, nobody on the planet earth can help you or even in the heavens above. I mean, nobody. You could have

the most expensive best lawyer on the planet. But if you're sitting over there going, well, they always get what they want and I can and everybody's against me and they all believe the other side. Nothing good is coming out of that. Nothing. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. You know, as you were speaking, I was like, okay, how do we then sort of, we're creating this sense of, okay, you have to prepare for your best defense. And it is like, okay, watch all of this, get all your documentation together, do all those things. Because I would imagine many people are underprepared in that regard and you get up against somebody and you're like, oh shit, they did a better job of that. So I like that. I also like then this next conversation because my question was, how do you then

get people to soften into having good relationship or being able to have a conversation? because if you're so defended and you're looking for every single intricacy that they've fucked up or you've messed up or something's happened and you're like, oh, there it is, there it is. We're going to put that in there, right? Then I lose access even to the best parts of you where you're like, okay. And now let's negotiate. Let's figure out, you know, what I can give, what I can take, where I can be. Like does, how do you sort of switch from like that defensive side of things to then, okay, and we're going to have to be able to not get sucked into this. because now I've just readied myself for this asshole. You know, like, is there a switch that you do in this method? Is there sort of then that conversation of that, how do we come back to us? Well, the first switch is a quiet one. It's actually a very kind of anticlimactic.

It's in what I'm about to say, which is you deciding, you making a decision that you are going to show up as the badass, incredible, powerful, beautiful, brilliant, bright light that you were freaking born to be. And stop listening to the noise in your head that got planted there by your trauma. You know, anytime trauma is doing the leading or the talking or the picking, it leads you into a bad neighborhood. So you just cannot let trauma do your deciding for you. And so you've got to show up first for yourself and just make a decision that that's what you're doing.

And then from there, okay, how do I make a plan? How do I create my leverage? How do I present this leverage? And then when you're dealing with the other side, you know, taking your ego out of it a little bit because you can't go, well, they've got to pay. I need justice. They've got to apologize to me. them to acknowledge all the things that I've done. You know, that's, that's not happening. So you go, okay, how do I get to S? How do I get to that result that I want so that I can move on with my life?

And yeah, sometimes it's, you know, what I call fluff for favor vomit later, which is, you know, you give them a little something that they want. We just fluff up their ego, right? So that you can get what you want and walk away. Yeah, I mean. Yeah. So I love that so much. No, go ahead. Tell me more. Say that again. No, it's okay. I don't know what the leg is here, but just not not devolving down into their level, right? It's staying up here. God damn it. I mean, and again, it's so hard not to. And I think that that's the permission that I think if you're, if you're listening to this and you're in a contentious place with anybody, which like, let me say, is happening more and more these days because the vast majority of us have overwhelmed

nervous systems, which means we used to be nice. I mean, I think about this about myself all the time. I used to be nice. I used to really like people. Now, I mean, I want to throat punch most everybody. So I think some of this is we have to normalize the fact that we've never had this much noise to break through. And I think the first step in sort of coming back online ourselves becomes really critical before we sort of step into any method or any place to sort of like, okay, how do we get through this part of relationship dynamics that we need to navigate, right? So I like that conversation that it is about, okay, just a second, there is a nervous system component here.

None of this works if you're emotionally dysregulated. Huge. And give yourself grace. You know, don't feel guilty if you do feel emotionally hijacked or you do, you know, fall prey to feeling like that. I mean, please. I mean, I'm trying to give you guys like some tips and tools on when this happens, but give yourself grace because we're all human for God's sake. I mean, we all, I sure can't say, oh, I never get triggered or anything like that. I would be a big fat liar if I did. So give yourself the compassion and the self-care and we are our worst judges.

I mean, whatever anybody else can say about us, what goes on in here is the worst thing. And so I often say the very first negotiation that we have to do is with ourselves for our self-worth in the morning when we wake up, right? I mean, so that's, I would just say, give yourself grace. So many times people are like, you know, I stayed too long or I tolerated way more than I should have or I let them get away with all this stuff. You know what? Don't, don't go there. That's not getting you where you want to go. Go from here.

Wherever you are is the jumping off point. wherever you are is the jumping off point i think that's critical in in this world of this legal world how how do you think your profession like has it evolved at all to really see the human side of things i think about you know i mean usually it comes back to individual lawyers doing well at building relationship with their clients and you know i would imagine that's how you become the top one percent of the attorneys um what are you looking for when you know you're You're going to step into one of the most important negotiations of your life, of your career. If you're getting into something that is so contagious, sorry, not contagious, when something is so

litigious. Yes. Whatever that word is. When it's really chippy, you're also looking for a partner in a legal team in some ways, I would imagine, hey, like, is there somebody that can you work alongside you? What are you looking for? Does that become important at all at the end of the day? Oh, yeah.

I mean, you don't want somebody who's going to be dismissing you and not interested in, oh, you know what, I have to say I. I'm going to be creating all of these summaries. You know, are you going to use them? Are you going to listen to me? Are we going to be able to have a conversation? How can I access you? You know, I mean, back when I was practicing, I used to tell people all the time that, you know, there are many days that I'm either I'm in trial all day or I'm in mediation all day. I'm in depositions all day. I'm not looking at my email. So email, if you're going to email me, always CC my paralegal. I'm not going to bill you for both of those emails, but CC my paralegal too because then she will be able to tell you she's in trial or whatever and let's set a phone call for tomorrow, something like that. Because otherwise, you're going to feel like I'm ignoring you when I'm not in a position to be able to respond to you. So I would set the methodology, the structure up right from the beginning.

But if your lawyer's not doing that, then you do it. You know, like say, hey, how are we going to communicate? If I have a lot of questions, should we set a call once a week? Should we plan to meet once a week? Or should we, you know, maybe at the beginning it's more often. Maybe it's once a day or whatever it is. But I would recommend for people, like if you have a lot of questions, not to bombard your lawyer with like 30 different emails,

like maybe start to just write them down and ask them all at once, either in one email or one phone conversation, because they're going to bill you for every single one of those things. Plus, they just, then they start to get annoyed because they've got 30 other, 50 other cases, whatever it is. And I think this is the point, right? It's a relationship business in any sort of human services profession.

So being prepared, having, some of your ideas clear. I mean, this is what I'm so impressed about with, you know, your, your AI is just really like, will it help you? I mean, I have to think about this as tax season, you know, people are like, you know, coming into the accountants with like 57 things, or if they come into my office and they're just like, I don't know why I'm here. Okay, we'll figure that out together, which is going to take a whole lot more time. If you can regulate a little bit before you come in, if you can, you know, sort of be clear about, here's what I'm worried about. Here's the things. To the best of your ability. If it's not,

it's okay. I mean, all of us are professionals in this way. We could. and walk you through those things. But I think to your point, if you're going to do well in a system of negotiation, it's that prep work around the regulation that happens even before that can so often be helpful, hey? So helpful. I mean, it's not just your own regulation. It's also getting you the leverage that you want.

And to your point, it, you know, it's helpful for having a conversation with your psychologist or having a conversation with any practitioner in your life. because if you can come to them with an organized system of here's the bullet points of the things that you need to see in order to be able to get the picture of what's been happening, the better it's going to be for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And how helpful that is even for you, because I think so many times it is like, I mean, in my work in particular, it's about let's organize the chaos that is happening in your brain

your life. And sometimes it's a little bit like, okay, let's start at the beginning. Tell me that story. How did it go? And even the telling, this sort of reflecting back on, holy shit, how did we get here is such a helpful, I think, intervention to sort of get clear in your own head. Like, oh, my goodness, how did we get here? Which then as you step into negotiating becomes important. Yeah, for sure, for sure. And I would just say, you know, even, organizing it so that somebody else can kind of see because to your point about having a dysregulated nervous system, so many times people start to tell you their story and they're kind of in the middle of the story. And then Steve walked in and he was talking to the dog.

And then, you know, Mary showed up with the car and you're going, who is Steve again? and what, I mean, like, you know, just remember I've never met any of these people. So I'm trying to catch up here as fast saying, I'm pretty good at this. I've been doing this a long time. But, you know, I'm still trying to like figure out who these people are as you talk a million miles an hour. So being able to have it like organized down. And this is the issue. And this is a really important issue that I want to just say.

There's a disconnect between what somebody feels like they want. in order to feel whole, in order to feel like justice has been served, or in order to feel like seen or acknowledged in this situation, and then what a judge cares about or what a mediator cares about. And so, so many times, people are like, oh, the judge doesn't care or they're biased, or they like the other side better, or they never listen to me. Well, part of the reason why is because they don't want to hear emotional. emotional vomit and not to just, you know, to take away from your story, but from a judge's

point of view, it just sounds like noise. And so what they really need is something that's organized so that they can match it to each factor, each element of the law that is applicable to your particular situation. So if you've got a probate or a trust, or a business litigation or divorce or custody, whatever it is, any of those situations, whether you live in Canada or New Zealand or United States somewhere, there's a body of law that applies to that situation. And in that body of law, each one of those laws has factors to it. So if it's defamation, it's, you know, it was a statement, it was published, it caused damage, it was, you know, did okay, each one of those elements, was there a statement?

okay, there's facts that go to that. Was it published to a person? Did they say it to somebody else? Okay, there's a body of facts that tie to that. The more you can take those elements and break them down and apply the facts to each one of the elements of that law and in a way that shows patterns that shows percentages. Oh, they were changed the schedule 48% of the time. Here's the proof. roof. The better you're going to be, the better you're going to be, because now they care. I love that. I really love that advice. And I think, you know, again, I think the intention behind so much of this really matters. And it's so hard not to want to get the other guy. It's so hard not to want to prove somebody wrong. And I think in any conversation, you know, like let's feel all those emotions and have those conversations. But really at the end of the day, it's like what

benefits, what benefits you the most in this situation, right? And it often isn't getting anybody, you know, you're right, good, cool. You know, as you've said so many times, it's like, okay, what is your term again when you're like, you can fluff them? What do I say? Oh, fluff for favor, vomit later. Fluff for favor or vomit later. Yeah, fluff for favor, vomit later. Because even if it's really difficult for you to do it. in the moment, you're kind of like, are you fucking getting me? I have to do this again. You can sort of like get it later. We can deal with that later. Yeah. Yeah. You scream at your pillow. I'm trying to shower. Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, the outcome is really what I'm most worried about.

And so even in the moment it feels good. So anyway, I, I, I, I love all of this. And I know, you know, so many people that I love and that I, you know, are in this community are so sort of like, how do I navigate so that I'm heard? How do I, work through this world in any way. And you just offer so many of those suggestions, advice. I mean, books, there's many of them. And I like to hear that there's another one coming. So listen, thank you so much for this, Rebecca. It was so fantastic and so helpful. I loved every second. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure. I just want to say if people are interested in SlayAI, they can start for free at slaypro.a.ai.

So it's a resource for them. Amazing. I'm going to put all of that. Yeah, I'll put all of that in the show notes. So you can get anything there that you need that might be helpful. And in the meantime, listen, look after yourself, look after each other. And I will see you right back here next time. You know, the more we do this, people ask, why do you have to do the acknowledgement in every episode?

I've got to tell you, I've never been more grateful for being able to raise my babies on a land or so much sacrifice. was made. And I think what's really critical in this process is that the ask is just that we don't forget. So the importance of saying these words at the beginning of every episode will always be of utmost importance to me and this team. So everything that we created here today for you happened on Treaty 7 land, which is now known as the center part of the province of Alberta. It is home of the Blackfoot Confederacy, which is made up of the Siksika, the Kainai, the Piccany, the Titina First Nation, the Stony Dakota First Nation, and the Métis Nation Region 3. Our job, our job as humans, is to simply acknowledge each other.

That's how we do better, be better, and stay connected to the good. The Unlonely Podcast is produced by three incredible humans, Brian Seaver, Taylor McGilvery, and Jeremy Saunders, all of Snacklab Productions. Our executive producer, my favorite human on this planet, is Marty Pillar. Soundtracks were created by Donovan Morgan, Unlonelly branded artwork created by Elliot Cuss. Our big PR shooters are Desvino and Barry Cohen. Our digital marketing manager is the amazing, Shana Haddon. Our 007 secret agent from the Talent Bureau is Jeff Lowness. and emotional support is provided by Asher Grant, Evan Grant, and Olivia Grant.

Go live! I am a registered clinical psychologist in Alberta, Canada. The content created and produced in this show is not intended as specific therapeutic advice. The intention of this podcast is to provide information, resources, education, and the one thing I think we all need the most. A safe place to land in this lonely world. We're all so glad you're here. Thank you.