Unlonely with Dr. Jody Carrington - We're Fucking Fine: Sarah Landry

Episode Date: January 11, 2024

Sarah Nicole Landry is a mom of 4 kids aged 2-16, divorced and remarried and now blended perfectly together. After getting exhausted by social media and body-perfecting habits along the way, she decided to change the way she showed up in the world. Healing through her perfectionism, disordered eating, body shame and so much more, she now loves having powerful social media conversations about life and our experiences in it.She is a body confidence advocate, speaker, writer, occasional model, and weekly podcast host, and an ongoing student of life.In this episode, Dr. Jody and Sarah dig deep into mental health, family, and being badass businesswomen in a time where we (as women) are expected to do it all. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at one you need, whenever you need it. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. Let's start here, where I think the answer begins for everything and everybody. In the place of acknowledgement. Indigenous peoples in this country have taught me the most about what acknowledgement truly means. So everything that I've created for you happened here on Treaty 7 land, which is now known as the center part of the province of Alberta. It is home to the Blackfoot Confederacy, made up of the Siksika, the Kainai, the Pikani, the Tatina First Nation, the Stony Nakota First Nation, and the Métis Nation Region

Three. It is always my honor, my privilege mostly, to raise my babies on this land where so much sacrifice was made, and to build a community, invite a community in, talk about hard things, as we together learn and unlearn about the most important things, that we were never meant to do any of this alone. okay listen welcome back welcome in dr jody carrington here and um everyone comes from Welcome back. Welcome in. Dr. Jodi Carrington here. And the Everyone Comes From Somewhere podcast. This might be the episode. This might be the episode where we gain the world or we lose it. So I really love the living on the edge ones. And I cannot think of a guest that has probably spoke to my heart more than this woman. Sarah Nicole Landry, ladies and gentlemen, and humans around this planet, is in the studio today. And if you don't know her, let me tell you a little bit about her. She is a body confidence advocate, a speaker, a writer, an occasional model,

and weekly podcast host. She's also a mama and a wife and an ongoing student of life. I am blown away by her story and I wanted this community who probably knows her already, but I wanted you to know so much more about her because she is the reason everyone comes from somewhere really took hold in my soul. We were sitting at an event together and I was in awe of the way that she commands a room and a business and the women in her circle. And I was saying to her, you know, what is the thing about making an impact in the world? And she said, you know, a podcast with a message like yours is I think the place where you need to land. And I was like, yes, in addition to the 57,000 other things. And you said very clearly to me, I want you to think about this message. I want you to think about who you need,

who needs to hear it and what it would sound like. And so for the next, you know, 20 minutes of that conversation, you were like, this is what it's going to sound like. This is what I think you should do. And here's what I think you should call it. And I was like, okay, done. We, I think we've just really have a plan and we did. And so we're going to talk about that today. Um, but I, I also just want to intro it this way. This is a podcast about where you came from. And so we're going to talk about that today. But I also just want to intro it this way. This is a podcast about where you came from. And I know to the core of me that we are all way more alike than we are different. And maybe most importantly, the difference between empathy and judgment is lies and understanding where another comes from. So Sarah, Nicole, Landry,

tell me, where would we start with you? Where have you came from? I've come from a stay-at-home mom who had a two-year-old and a four-month-old sitting at my feet and wondering what the heck I was going to do with my life. Because as many people choose being a stay-at-home mom, and I did love my journey with it. It also was the only choice. We couldn't afford childcare, but I didn't want to give up on the hopes and dreams that I'd always had. And at the time blogs were new. And I remember feeling so connected. I was also living far from my hometown. And I felt like for the first time by reading other people's stories, I was feeling connected in my own. And suddenly I was feeling like I had purpose beyond just who these two people saw me as. And it made me start

putting up the most atrocious content you've ever seen. Just so bad, just so. And yet that was my beginnings. And it always sort of has been the ethos of what I've always come back to is remembering what it's like to be in the corner of your own world and feeling alone and what it would mean to connect with other people through spaces that we wouldn't normally have access to. And social media has been my journal. Most people have followed me through some pretty big life things, some very much times of getting it wrong. I was a weight loss influencer for a couple of years. I then realized how absolutely wrong I was in a lot of things that I had believed and ethos that I were following and the things that were externally validating me.

I completely redirected my entire story and I went through a divorce. I moved in with my parents. I had those kids with me. I was in my hometown and I started rebuilding. And so I got to kind of see everything from the side of what it was like trying to fit in with everyone. And then what it was like to sort of just be me and end up fitting in, um, or just finding, you know, it's always like when you're a kid and you're waiting for that birthday party invite from that really popular girl and nobody ever told you, you could start your own party and you didn't have to wait for everybody else. And I feel like that's sort of what I've done because it came from a lot of exhaustion. I came from a lot of feeling like I was never going to be good enough.

And it came from a lot of loneliness in chapters of my life that I needed people, whether it was divorce, whether it was starting a career later in life, whether it was motherhood, no matter what it was, you could find community and you could find conversation. And so I am Sarah Nicole Landry. I am from Guelph, Ontario. I'm back in my hometown. I live five minutes away from my parents. I have coffee with my mom almost every morning. And I have four children now, and I am happily remarried to my husband now of five years. And so that's where we are.

Oh, that's where we are. The thing that resonated the most for me in that story is this idea of loneliness. And I got this, I mean, because we often tend to sugarcoat most things and we're like, we're good. It's good. It's fine. What I love, you can't address what you don't acknowledge. And what I love so much about this idea of being a woman entrepreneur, being able to sort of set new, blaze new paths. It's fucking lonely. And people don't talk about that nearly enough. Take me back to this little girl in this little town in Guelph. Do you have siblings?

What does she look like? I have an older sibling. She's pretty quiet. I was the loud one. I genuinely thought I was like adopted for a half minute because I was like, how do I fit in with this like family of quiet people? I was sort of like the household entertainer. I always saw myself doing something on a stage, which was interesting because I pursued singing and acting and had just the worst stage fright, but I was always winning for best speeches in elementary school. I was comfortable. I just couldn't, I couldn't envision the stage that I actually would eventually land on, which was a stage of social media. But yeah, I'm like through and through like such a dork. It's so funny. I grew up like just, I grew up in a larger body.

So I grew up really knowing that the only way through was by good personality and by being friendly and by being like open to being embarrassing sometimes. And then I became a mom and I was like, I don't really want to do motherhood the way that's like so perfect. Like I want to have fun with this. And I was a very, I had three kids by the time I was 25, there was no other choice then for me to be a little bit immature about it all. And so I've, I still, to this day, I'm like the girl who loves Disney movies and loves star Wars. And I'm such a dork about so many different things. And if you like follow me, you watch me like go in on the dorkiest things sometimes. And

it's interesting that people now like put me in this category of like someone to look up to, because I was always the girl that was like, I always felt lucky to be included. Like I was, was like, Oh, like always on the outside. So lucky, like be, and like literally to the point where I would shape shift my personality and shape shift who I was to fit in with any environment that I was around because I felt like true me was never going to be enough. So what I find so funny is like social media has like weirdly taught me and validated for me that like the me version of me is actually the best one and actually the one that people like me for the most. And that's been so fun

because it's so easy to go on social media and look at what everybody else was doing and all their cute little ways of doing videos and content and writing. And it was, it took me a long time to figure out who I was within that without being a sponge to what everybody else was doing and whoever everybody else was. And that's still a challenge that I work through today because everybody at entrepreneurial women, I can't even tell you how many times I look at women and I'm like, Oh, they're so strong. And they like, they just do the best stuff. And they just do so many, I wish I could, I wish I could be like that. I wish I, and then you get to know them and you're like, wait, you cry on your bathroom floor, too. So here's my question. Do you know anybody who has got their shit together all the time?

So let's normalize that. Right. Like and this is the thing why I think about, you know, people say I've heard them speak about this, you know, when they when they mention you vulnerability, authenticity, realness. And I think there's such an expectation for the vast majority of women that we have to appear as though we have it together. I will tell you this in this moment, I have assessed and treated over a thousand women across this country. I have not one time, not one time met anybody who's got their shit together. Now, do they appear in seasons where you have good days, good moments, even minute to minute. But I will tell you the walk between confidence and self-loathing is fucking short, isn't it? Like it feels like when you, when somebody looks at you, I would imagine. Okay. So you, you modeled for Knicks. You, you, you have these massive, brilliant investments and business ideas and people are like, okay, here comes Sarah Lander. She's going to walk in the room and like, can I tell you though, the thing that impressed me the most

about the time we sat together first. Okay. So it was when we were mamas for mamas and I was expecting so much, Sarah, that you just stumbled upon this brilliance because you really present yourself in so many ways as like the authentic vulnerable. You're so fucking smart. You are so brilliant. Isn't that what we said, Marty? Like when we left that first meeting with you, I was like, I cannot wait to sit in her presence more and just learn about what it has taken to pull together this business mindset.

Because as women, we often, I don't think, get nearly the credibility we do. We need to, to build the companies that we build. Yeah. on the internet. And so the monetary values of things, it more for me is like what opportunities I can create with that. But I also know what it's like to have had the shoe dropped and I know what it's like to pick it back up. So it no longer threat, it might, my mom's scared of it, but it no longer threatens me and it no longer threatens my existence. I know it's hard when the shoe drops, but I also know I have every ability to pick it back up because I've been there.

I've done the thing. I've done all of this. Like, it's just, it fascinates me. And I also, I think we probably caught each other in a moment where I never get to talk business. Women don't talk business out loud because it is constantly something we hide and we minimize, especially in an industry

that has been so minimized and mocked over the years that we don't really often have safe spaces to have those conversations. So I'm guessing in that moment, we were having one and I was like, thank God we're finally in a space of women who are willing to show up and have these conversations about what it is to really be successful. Because I think at the end of the day, women especially are not often money motivated. We're like heart motivated. There's like why motivation. And yeah, it's-

But at the same time, I want to make fucking money. Like I'm not- Well, we want to have our value met and we want to create opportunity for other people. What money means to us is not, I think what it often means to so many. And I think it's also okay to be successful. Like I think that that is part of the issue, right? Is that we just don't want, we want to hide those things because, okay, of course we

have a philanthropic arm or we're very much to giving back and all those things. But also we're badasses in so many ways, right? And having this conversation with my husband has been interesting because I think we are the first generation of women that have had this much freedom. But our roles have never been this unclear. So if you were born with a vagina, you tell me what you think about this, even in my mom's generation. So we're the first generation of really, I think, being able to very cautiously step out and do anything we want to be, love who we want to love, be who we want to be. If you were born with a vagina in our mom's world, right, you had sort of one job.

Even though you had maybe big dreams, you didn't have any freedom. You had one job. You find a partner, have some babies, you raise them well, you bake a kick-ass set of buns, and the people can gather at your house. And you should marry somebody who is like probably pretty financially astute. Like that'd be nice if they could like be the breadwinner and bring shit home. OK.

And then maybe you could holiday once a year. Be very nice. Now, what like think about this in this first generation, we are still very wrought with the expectations of what it looks like to show up at the PTA meetings, whatever that is, and then bring the snacks and have the kids all dressed up beautifully and be able to like then prepare nice meals and cook and shit like that, which, you know, and also could you speak a lot and create a business and then also be very invested in having these meetings and look like look smart and please don't swear very much and also then just be able to tuck your babies in at night. Okay. It is. It's been so fascinating for me to step back into motherhood for. We just froze.

Okay. I have a 17 year old, a 15 year old, a 13 year old, and now a two-year-old and walking back into motherhood has been so shocking for me to witness in real time, the pressures and the questions that people will ask. I ended up doing this mini series on TikTok and Instagram, just of all the, um, all the things I've never heard asked of my husband. And it was things like, how do you balance fatherhood and work? How do you, are you okay with like that, that happening? Like the pink door, like just all of these weird little questions, like who's babysitting the kids, like who's, um, you know, just all of these different like roles that we have. Cause I think that we fought so much for like pay quality and

opportunities to do these jobs, but the domestic demands haven't changed. But thankfully I'm in a relationship where we really, really split the domestic responsibilities. And we openly, I openly share about that. Cause I'm like, I, the mental load of motherhood is always going to be different than the mental load of fatherhood. I think that that's just going to take even further generations to run with that. But I do think like it has been so eye-opening to witness in real time.

I was at the peak of my career, discovered I was pregnant, had a baby. And then I just watched everybody no longer ask me about my business, no longer ask me about anything inspiring and all ask me, how are you balancing this with motherhood? How are you going to travel and leave your child? Is that not so hard for you to leave your kids? And then my husband is jetting away on work trips and nobody's asking him these questions. Nobody's asking him how he's balancing it all. Nobody's asking him anything. Then how's work? What's been going on? How are the kids?

Just how are you questions? And I'm getting grilled on the regular by women on how I'm, how this is all working out. And it's made me realize so deeply that yes, there's patriarchy and it's so at play and that we are so deeply perpetuating it. And I've had to like scale back on like, don't ask the questions of, are you going to go back to work after the baby? Who's watching? I've had to re I've had to like unlearn the common questions that we ask of other women, especially

when they enter into the realm of motherhood. Okay. Two things. This just was a big gut punch for me as you were saying that, because you know how I introduced myself to you? I said, you're Lemmy's mom. I didn't, I was like, because she is such a star, but I also, but the portal that brought her into this world and I love as you should, but I also was like, as you were saying those things, I was thinking about that, right? Like, I also wanted to endear myself to you. I also wanted you to know that I admire that piece of it. And I think it's also though, that piece that we don't open with sort of like what you've accomplished or what you've done. And I, I, I, there's this quote that I think about all the time by Kavita Ram Dass, one of the most, I think, brilliant women of all times. And she said, listen, feminism today is really fighting

against not necessarily a distinct oppressor, like a colonizer or men. It's often about the values that we hold of ourselves and that we uphold for other women. And so even when we talk about, you know, transitioning into being a from a mom to a CEO or what it looks like if you're on the road all the time and people say, well, who's going to look after the kids if they get sick? I get that question all the time. Right. And I mean, I have a very competent husband, you know, like we, I'm sure they know how to run the Tylenol. You might even be doing it better. Imagine. And so I think it's that interesting piece of how do you think as women, we need to show up much more purposefully and consciously, like, do you, do you see that that is a thing, you know, in all of the people that you sort of get to influence or have a conversation with? How do we do that better for each other? I think it really comes to paying attention to our own behaviors. I think we have to figure,

forgive ourselves for what those first thoughts are. When we see somebody doing something or we think like, oh, how is she managing like leaving her children? Or those are like the conditioned thoughts that we have. I don't know who introduced this theory to me, but I've always loved it about the first thought and second thought. And the second thought is the one you choose. The second thought is like, wait a second, good for her. I'm so glad to see her like finding success and finding herself within the realm of motherhood

because it can be so demoralizing and very draining. And it's nice to see somebody who's figuring out how to pursue themselves in that. Maybe it's like even in their DMs being like, Hey, we were talking about this earlier. When you see somebody going through something, instead of just dumping on them, your own personal knowledge, being like, Hey, I have experience with this. If you ever need to chat instead of just like constantly, I don't know, we're like, we have this, you're right. Like we have these standards that we have for ourselves and we forget that that's maybe not somebody else's. There was a woman years ago, she had a blog called House of Smith. And I remember with this one blog and in it, she said, you'll never agree with how people choose to spend their time or money. And every single time I find

myself internally judging somebody, it's because I'm disagreeing with one of those things, how they spent their time or how they've spent their money. And I think until we take her, we have to take ourselves off of the pedestal of thinking that we're above this. I would never be that type of woman that would judge other women. I would never be the kind of person that would say those things, recognize that you are, and we're in the systems that are making us like this. There were in the systems that one is constantly distracted by what our bodies look like, because that's way better than us being distracted with any other thing in the world. I think we would have solved so many world issues if we actually didn't constantly be

sold the message of how un-enough we are, right? So it's really paying attention. And I think I just floated through life for so long. And I think I just sponged up what everybody else was thinking and doing. And it's been so much work to just take a second, pay attention to your thoughts, pay attention to your own behaviors and patterns. And you might be able to recognize why other people are asking you these questions, why they're asked, why they're curious about how you're balancing everything more than they are just how you're doing. And we also are living in a time. And I think this is, you know, just touching on the loneliness piece. I once had to say to my friend, um,

that watching my Instagram stories is not checking in with me because it gets so lonely when everybody thinks they know everything that's going on with you and you're showing them 10%. They just think they've got the whole thing. So everybody stops checking in because, and it gets low. I said this, I'm like, it gets lonely at the top. Nobody feels like they don't want to bother you. They don't want to, they don't do anything with your time. They know your phone is full. They know your emails are full. They know your DMS are full. Everyone it's like the bystander effect, right? I'm sure somebody else has got this.

And so nobody checks in on you. And I've had to really peel back recently and share about my mental health. And it's been months after, like, if not a year after I've actually been going through it and, you know, almost being like, Hey, I know I've like shown that I've been okay all this time. I actually haven't been, and I actually need my fellow woman. Like I, I need the support and I'm, but I also realized like we create these windows of social media where they're not the full home. We're just peaking. We're just peaking it. And it's not the full picture, but I just think it really comes

down to like understanding that what we're seeing of each other is literally a peak that we don't really know all that's going on to be really careful with like, and gentle with each other. And just like really open to the fact that like, we might disagree on things and we might have totally different ethos of standards for our lives. And we are not a threat to each other. So many of my friends have chosen to be child-free and travel the world. And I'm like, this is so like you making that decision is not a threat to my decisions to be a mother of four. We are not in a competition. And the more we keep putting ourselves in competition with each other, the more we keep putting women up on pedestals and ripping them down.

Every celebrity woman that you could possibly imagine that we've ever looked at has this happen. Like, let's look at a Britney Spears, a Miley Cyrus, a Beyonce. We wait, we rise them up and we wait for them to make the tiniest error and they get ripped down. And what happens? We raise them up again. They've risen from the ashes. How amazing. And then we rip them down again. Men are just floating. They're just going through it. And it's not because other men aren't doing anything. It's because they just, they're doing, they're just going through it and it's not because other men aren't doing anything it's because they just they're doing they're distracted by other stuff and we're so and it's it comes down to the patriarchy and it comes down to the fact that we've become so competitive with each other

but it also is because we're perpetuating but here's the issue the highest rate of suicide in our country is middle-aged men yes because they're not talking. Exactly. So this isn't even a fight for me around the patriarchy anymore. It really is about as humans, what do we need? I mean, let's talk about, I mean, you know, you've been so open about your mental health. And I think that, you know, I talk about, you know, my anxiety and what this is like. And, you know, tell me a little bit more about what that journey's looked like for you. Because I know there's been some dark days and those are the things, right, that we don't see. just normalizing medications to help you get through the day. I have been a therapy girl. I've done all the things and I've never had like, I've just never had depression until I was pregnant with, I've always had like a little bit of anxiety, especially postpartum anxiety,

but nothing, nothing debilitating, I guess. And so when I was pregnant with Lemmy, I had some complications in the pregnancy and it really closed me off emotionally. And I ended up getting diagnosed with prenatal depression, but then she was born and everything was fine. And I thought, well, that's great. I'm like done with depression. Now I know what it's like. I have empathy for what that feels like, but it's not my story anymore. And I, um, went through postpartum was nursing her when she stopped nursing, I had some ongoing issues with anxiety and some feelings of sadness. And month after month, they were getting worse. And around this time last year, I started tracking my head.

I was tracking if I was getting headaches with my period because I'm very hyper aware about migraines because I used to get them really, really bad. And I quit alcohol, all this stuff. And I had been migraine free for a year and a half. So I was like, really pay attention to even like little tiny headaches. And I was cycle tracking them in my Apple health app. And it prompts if you want to signify your moods and stuff as well. And I noticed that my anxiety and my feelings of sadness were happening all around this time of PMS. And I was like, okay, well, that's kind of normal. And I had some friends talk about PMDD, but mine was never, nothing was ever serious enough or severe enough. It just wasn't that big a thing. But month after

month, it started to get worse. And, you know, I went to a naturopath who was quick to diagnose me and get me to my GP who was quick to validate it, but not without questions around, is this PMDD or is this just motherhood? I'm just gonna trigger warning everybody, I'm gonna talk about some self-harm things because one of my first symptoms was the constant, when I would be driving by myself,

this constant desire to drive my car off the road. And it wasn't out of a place of harm. It was out of a place of wanting relief from my thoughts. And that kind of thinking only got more and more severe, whether it was walking past a staircase and wanting to throw myself down it, or just thinking of all the ways that I could shut my mind off because it was just too loud. And I never knew that suicide thoughts were like that. I always just thought it was wanting to die. I never knew it was just wanting a break. And so it got really, really bad. And at one point was so bad that my was, um, my husband had to essentially babysit me and my family was all aware and I could, I couldn't be left alone. It was, I couldn't

trust myself enough to be alone. And I'm so proud of myself for telling people that I wasn't safe because I think that that's what saved my life was getting rid of the stigma of what it is to feel like that. Because I was so embarrassed. Like, it's so embarrassing to be like, wow, I'm like, I can't be alone right now. I don't trust myself and I need to be here. And so I started talking about PMDD. And what was interesting is I was talking about it after I'd started medication and after things where it's never better. Like it keeps me from being a zero, but it puts me at like between a two and a four, which is just like surviving. And so I began to be open about it, but I had been open about it, I mean, almost six

months past when it had really been going on for me. And I was so nervous because I was just so used to being the funny girl and the insightful girl and the one that would make you feel less alone about things. And then there was this big thing that I was feeling so alone and I didn't know how to talk about. And when I did, I was met with so, so, so much love and so, so, so much criticism. The amount of people that just didn't understand. So PMDD is premenstrual dysphoric disorder. And just to give context, about one in three will attempt suicide. It is about over 80% will idealize it. And a lot of women lose their lives to it. It becomes from what I've seen and from whatize it. And a lot of women lose their lives to it.

It becomes from what I've seen and from what I've heard, a lot of times it happens during shifts in hormones. It can happen closer to menopause. It can happen postpartum. There's like so many windows. And the problem is for so many women who have lost their lives to it, it's never been labeled from PMDD because it's not been studied. It's not been talked about. We don't know what it is. And if it wasn't for other women talking about it on social media, I wouldn't have even known what it was or gone to

my doctor to talk about it. But I was just so shocked because I understood how weird it was to have something where you go from like genuinely suicidal to euphorically happy because you're like, everything feels like bright colors again and you feel safe and happy. And it's hard to create a problem. It's hard to see a problem if it's never staying. It like comes and then goes and then comes and then goes, but it's like this cycle that never really ends. And so I had to be witness to the sheer volume of people that couldn't understand why I was out celebrating my, my fifth anniversary with my husband, because wait, I thought you wanted to kill yourself. Why are you sitting and having dinner with your

husband? Just so much judgment and so much like shame piled on, which if you know me, that's where I get a little bit petty and a little bit stubborn because I'm like, if you're going to make, if you like, I'm like, I'm almost like my whole back gets up for like women. I can see your shoulders. Yeah. You're like, let's go bitch. It's the same as like when somebody will like shame me for my stretch marks. I'm like, you're talking to like millions of women right now. And I won't like fire in my belly has to happen, but it doesn't mean it doesn't hurt and it doesn't sting and it doesn't make me want to like curl up in a ball and just go right away. But it was so important for me to be open about it because I couldn't keep up the act.

And I felt like people were seeing this version of me that was like being forced out and I could sense it. I could sense that I wasn't, you know, when you connect with your content and you're like, this is me and I'm putting it out there. And then suddenly it was like, here's the shell and here's that. And like, that's all I have. And I needed people to know where I was at so they could start meeting me there too. And it was, I mean, I lost like 10,000 followers when I started talking about it. And I very much had a lot of empathy for how uncomfortable it is to talk about mental health, how much stigma still exists. But then also how much community we've been able to create. And, and the bigger one is how many lives have potentially been saved from having these conversations. One of which was a 15 year old girl who was in a hospital and her

mother couldn't figure out what was going on and it was PMDD. And now she has treatment and she's going to be okay. Like we can only hope she's going to be okay. She has support now. So that's like, it's, it's interesting as social media has been my journal because it also means that it constantly shifts my why. It constantly shifts what I meant to talk about. Yeah. And I, as you were talking, you know, what I think about so often is that in my darkest moments, the thing that gets me, keeps me in the game the most is that my babies are watching because you can't tell them how to do it. You have to show them. And I think, I think that's the point, you know, and we, we talked a little bit about like anticipatory anxiety. So tell me about this, because I think this is a thing, you know, when people struggle with mental health or they have those dark moments or they get

suicidal thoughts, which can I just tell you is far more common than anybody ever talks about. And it's, it's scary when you sort of feel like that, because you can look at all the reasons that you should stay. You look at all the reasons that things are going well, that, that you were in a privileged position. You have people who love you. You have money. You have all these things. You know, what is wrong with me? So it further perpetuates that idea that how could I even put myself in this position? What happens when you get that, when that sort of innocence is lost, when you start to say like, I have this thing, I have felt these feelings before. What happens there? Well, I think there is a lot of guilt because I have what most people would consider is the checkmark for life. How can you possibly be dealing with any of this? You, you know, you're successful. You have a good marriage. You have beautiful children. You have this great house. Like, and I think even I have like self-judged myself, like how could you know, you're successful, you have a good marriage, you have beautiful children, you have this great house. Like, and I think even I have like self-judged myself, like,

how could you possibly, but it's also taught me so much where mental health does not discriminate. It doesn't, it doesn't pick people who are just in their worst of times and decide that that's the depressed ones. And that everyone who's, you know, got a dollar in their pocket is just doing fine. And so it's taught me a lot about my own internalized, um, stigmas and my own internalized, uh, just like feelings towards like ableism. If I'm going to be honest, ableism, like a lot of just like internalized thoughts around things and what I'm capable of doing. And I think I thought that if I came off and if I, and if I chose to talk about it, that it would somehow make me less reliable, less of a good business woman. Um, and, and that was really, that was really interesting to sort of walk through as well. But ultimately, like, I think it's just, um, it's given me a lot of relief to finally be able to talk about this stuff without it feeling like I owe,

there is certain power of being in the position I am now, but also, um, I realized that a lot of women don't talk about these things because of the systems that are in place. And if you go ahead and talk about wanting to harm yourself and you are a mother, there's a lot of women who are not in the position to feel safe to do so because they risk potentially their custody and more. So I, I have a lot of privilege even being able to talk about it, even being able to go and get support because there's a lot of women who cannot because they don't know how to, even when I went to the doctors and I said, I'm like, I think about driving my car off the road. Their first question was, you know, are you doing this when kids are in the car? And it's like, no, absolutely not. But that's the question they have

to ask because they have to protect everybody else around you as well. But it's a terrifying thing when you realize like, how honest can I be without risking my business, without risking my friendships, without feeling like a burden, without risking my parental rights? How honest am I allowed? And what does that look like? And I feel like that's where I am too. Hey, everyone. We all know how draining cold and flu season can be. Waiting rooms, missed appointments, and that worry about whether a fever is something serious. But there is a better way. Maple gives you access to Canadian doctors and nurse practitioners in minutes right from your phone. Get the medical

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I love that because here's the interesting thing about anxiety, right? Is that so much of the thoughts are intrusive and scary and have no basis in reality. But what I love about this idea is you have to name it to tame it. And so I remember even in university, I saw a therapist and there I am in this town doing a practicum. I have a therapist. I'm, you know, talking about anxiety. And I had this huge, massive fear that I was going to hurt. There was a baby, all of us who were doing this program together, one of us, we were all sort of going through it together, had a baby. They got married and had a baby. And so this little guy was like the whole, our whole world for everybody. And I started to have

this extreme fear that I was going to hurt him, that I was going to throw him down the stairs, that I was going to kill him, that I was going to do all these things. And, and I started, I mean, I had all those same thoughts for sure with our first son, not so much the twins, cause I think I was too fucking tired, but for the first one. And I, I think that, you know, how do you even say those things? And I remember thinking what a conundrum that was. I'm going to be a psychologist. I need to put this somewhere because it is. Here's the truth about an intrusive thought is that if it debilitates you, if it scares the fuck out of you, it's sort of make you do that at all, your shoulders up, I'm showing you, then it's a thought that becomes a part of you. And there's a big difference between those two things. And so oftentimes anxiety is like, I can't believe I'm even thinking these things. And then you'll think even worse things because your body's like, oh yeah, really? Well, what if you did this? What if you were a psychopathic

serial killer and sexually molesting everybody in the world? And people are like, oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God. So it becomes so isolating and debilitating. And so when I bring it back to sort of what you talked about at the beginning of this, in our best days when we're navigating the weight of the world, loneliness becomes a thing. Yes. changes, paramenopausal, menopausal experiences, the changes of our bodies, the role of being a woman and a powerful woman who then really can stay soft enough to sink into their babies and navigate what's happening into their relationships. I just really, like for one goddamn second, let's just think about what remarkable humans we are in this time, because as we're navigating all of these things, we are inundated every second with somebody else's highlight reel. And we have very few

safe places to put it, where we can really unpack it and navigate and say, do you know how that's normal? I can't tell you what the best moments in therapy I will ever have with a patient, a client is when we can normalize the experience. Right. And you're right. There is that moment of assessing, is this something I need to be imminently worried about? Right. Like there is that, that moment, but I will tell you so much of the time it is, where do you feel it in your body? And oftentimes women, most people carry it here in their throat, in their chest. It feels heaviest there. And when we can name it and we can say things like, okay, let's just look at it, right? Let's just feel it.

I don't want it there. I want to put it down. I don't want to feel it. I want to get over it. I want to, what if we just said, welcome it. There it is. You don't have to go anywhere. We got you. That represents all the things that she should have been for so long. The little girl that wasn't funny enough or that had to keep the whole family laughing in this fucking family of quiet people, like step it up a little. All right, I'll be the double spice. Here you go. And then we step into that in relationships and then being moms and being members of the community and being expected to do many things. I think if anybody's listening to this, here's the thing. In this moment, drop your shoulders, wiggle your toes, relax your jaw. Because when we have access to the best parts of ourselves, we know where we're supposed to be. We know we have much more ability to navigate intrusive thoughts. We have much more ability to say, I think I'm going to need somebody to hold my hand through this than when we are in this space of anticipatory anxiety. And it often comes with what if, what if this is bigger than it has ever been before? What if it goes up the rail? What if this happens? What if, Oh God, it's going to,

and so much of this may be true, but you have access to the best parts of yourself and those shoulders are dropped. And man, that's hard to do. Huh? Yeah. There's this incredible woman named Vicki Pattinson and she describes PMDD as a wave. As you're building your castle on positive thoughts, there is like this crashing wave that comes to destroy everything. And as you were saying that

in describing anticipatory anxiety, it's like standing on at the beach and just watching the wave, just watching it come at you and feeling frozen. And what I'm sort of learning now is it's about sort of grabbing a buoy. It's about figuring out what those things are that just not to avoid the wave, the wave is coming. There's nothing, there's nothing you can maybe do to stop that right now. But what you can do is actually openly prepare yourself for it, as opposed to just feeling like there's nothing you can do, but let it hit and destroy you. And I think where I am is just like, so my medication gets me to a two to a four. Eventually maybe I get a hysterectomy and it takes away that problem and maybe introduces a few new ones there. This, my husband always says

to me, cause I will always say the same thing when I'm in it is I don't know how I can do this forever. And he's like, the good news is it's not the good news is you just have to figure it out right now. You don't have to do this. Shane, how smart are you? He's such a gem. And he also was like the kind of person that will like research everything and like just come at it prepared as well, which helps me feel like I'm not a nuisance. I'm just informing him. He has actually the access on his phone to get the notification of when my period is about to come. So he also is prepared for my shifts and that. So he's, he's a version of a buoy. Like, let's be real. So this is what are your buoys? I might have all of these different buoys. So like, yes, the wave is coming and it's going to crash down my sand castle, which I will rebuild again when

this is done. But right now it's about riding that wave and figuring out how to find joy in every little tiny thing you can. And I have been, I have been dangerously going to Disney. And I finally said to my friend, she was like, you go to Disney a lot. And I was like, Joe, it's the only place. I don't know. It's like access is my inner child. And it's the only place in the world was like, Joe, it's the only place. I don't know. It's like access is my inner child. And it's the only place in the world that like, I just feel constant joy. And I feel it with my family. And I feel like we're all together. And I feel like everything's going to be okay. And I also love this is like such a cheesy little thing, but the characters

aren't allowed to unhug you first that you have to be the first to let go. So you get an unconditional hug from whoever you need. And it's not like your mom. So you don't like feel that like my mom will hug me and she, she could stay there for hours, but I'd be like, okay, I, I, this is too much. But when Daisy duck gave me a hug, I was like, I just like pulled into it and you don't realize. And I feel this way of such a heart of like getting people down to Disney and, and, or just finding that thing, finding that thing that makes you feel yourself again, makes you feel, and we all have different things, right? We all have different, maybe it's like in nature, maybe it's like doing art. Maybe it's like finding that, that voice you have. Um, but for me, it's been, it's, it was so hard for me to admit,

but I had to say it out loud. I'm like, I think Disney and just having anticipation of something good has kept me alive. So I'm doing a marathon run in January. And it's interesting. Cause it's like, it's like, I always have to have something in the books that keeps me going. So even in the darkest days, I'm like, well, I got to get through this because I got that thing in January. And I got to get through this because I need to be here with my kids. It's so interesting that we all have these things that we can pull on. And a weird little buoy for me has been Disney, has been just the joy it's given me in such

a hard time. And when I wrote about it, I said, you know, we all know that pain lives in the body. We're told trauma lives in your body. It stays there, but nobody talks about how joy does. Nobody tells you about how joy lives in your body too. And the more you can do to create joy for yourself, even in the worst of circumstances, that's just, that's just adding to your fight. It's just adding to it's leveling the odds. So you could have the worst possible things and all of the pain and all the sadness, but joy is also in your veins. It is also in your

soul. I have snot running down my face at this point. You're beautiful. But it is such a, and that was another thing that Shane introduced me to because people challenges why we would take our daughter traveling to a place like Disney when she wouldn't even remember it. And he said, because joy lives in the body and we get to give that to her. And so I was like, oh my God, it took me so long to figure that out for myself, that joy could live in my body too. And that that was my fight. I fight with joy. And I think more people need to hear that because it can be so complex when you're struggling with life. You almost feel guilty when you have joyous moments.

And when you realize that that joy is your fight and is your battle, and it's the greatest weapon you have against everything else, you cling to it. No matter what it looks like, no matter how ridiculous it is and what movies you need to watch or walks with friends you need to have or podcasts you need to listen to, no matter how much everybody will minimize it for you, it will add to your fight. Literally, joy. You have the full, it is time for you to feel it in your body and to give everything back to everybody else that needs to hang on to their stuff right now. You just get the joy. You're allowed to do it. I need, this is, I'm talking to myself just as much as I'm talking to you.

This is full permission to understand that if we're going to continue to serve and show our babies what it looks like in this world, the first line of defense is the infusion of joy. And as you've taught us today, joy is easily accessible when you have the buoys prepared for the storm. Not when, not if it's going to come, but when, right? Because I think anticipatory anxiety is the hope that it doesn't. Like, it's okay. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay.

But when you really access this idea that we're all going to, we're all going to have it. And for sure, those of us in a position of white, straight, able-bodied positions of privilege, I sometimes feel such shame even being the one saying these words, because I fucking get it. I started on third base and I don't think I get it. That's the definition of privilege. But here's my point in saying this is that it's going to come for every single one of us. And if we're going to be in a place to help each other along the way, we need to be very aware of our buoys when the dark days come.

And what I've heard you say is it's your people, right? It's, it's your Shane, it's your babies. And so I want you to think about this. If you're listening, who are your people, who are your buoys that sometimes it's hard to reach out to when you feel like shit, because you don't want them to see you or you don't want them, whatever. But if you are, you are, you're listening to this, you are somebody's person, right? So I want you internet person. I can't even tell you the girls that reply to almost every story with like immense enthusiasm. And I wish they knew what I hope they do for my life. Do you know what I mean? Like just a reliable cheerleader in your life right now, give wave at somebody at the 7-eleven tell somebody they have a name you look something

please i mean i this is why i love to be alive in this season sarah let me tell you this is that i've never been so happy to be alive when i worry about my kids and what what they're facing in the world and whether my marriage is going to make it or whether my business is going to make it i think you know why i'm so grateful to be alive right now? Because it's so easy to leave a legacy. All you got to do is give it your best shot at being kind every single day and you will not only change a life, you will save it. And so when I think about this conversation, when I think about your vulnerability, when I think about snot dripping down your face, which is the image that I will always hold dear in my heart. That I'm fucking fine. Yeah. Fucking fine. Is the idea that like in this pain for you, so many people find solace and strength and we need you. Nobody ever is not going to not need

Sarah Nicole Landry. So here we say that's not servant to them. Do you know what I mean? Honey, it's just your presence in the world. The online community is like, because they can be so harsh, but they can be- You owe nobody anything. Right? They just are. They're there because they choose to be there.

They don't owe me anything. I don't owe them anything. And when we choose to show up for each other that way, and I think that's where I have such gratitude for the entire journey, all the way down to when I was 23 in my living room with a toddler and a newborn on my feet, just craving connection and knowing what it was going to be like to be able to enter into the arena with these other people, these big names and be able to just

cheer them on felt like such an opportunity. And somewhere along the way, we've gotten so lost and somewhere along the way, it's gotten a lot harder, but I, I just still hold this hope. And I also see it every single day that like my buoys are the real things that are around me. And they're also the people I've never met people who will root for you and be that person back. Like, do you know, it's so fascinating. I think about this all the time, but when we go through something like a drive-through, somebody says, you know, we often say the same thing, like, hi, how are you? And it's like such a common phrase. And sometimes even just switching it up and being like, how's your day going so far? And they just, their whole

demeanor shifts. And then the next time they see you, there's like a little bit more and they're just like, oh, it's so nice to see you today. And you're thinking, you realize they've had so many people been so transactional with them all day that sometimes just the subtle kindness, what it can do. And I know what that was like when I had, when I was serving and there were certain people that would walk in and I knew it was going to be a good night. I knew everything was going to be okay because they were there. Even though I was serving them, they were there to serve me back.

And I just will constantly remember that as, because as I've gone through this now and as hard as it's been, um, I now know the invisible illness that happens with mental health. And I now just like, don't want to do anything, but just be like the nicest person possible. Cause you never know how, like somebody honked a horn at me when I was like having a bad day and I like, couldn't stop. Like I spiraled for the whole day and I was like, I'll never honk a horn to anybody unless it's a truck. It's so funny. Cause I, when I am filled up, I feel like that. And then I get assholery ish when my cup is empty. Right. And I'll throw punch. So, I mean, I, I also feel like that's such a fine line for me, but I, but I love, I love the idea of really being in this place, right, where we really underestimate our power these days.

And I think the thing that keeps me alive or that keeps me in those dark moments is like, OK, all I got left is the next best right kind thing. That's it. And that's all. Some days it's putting your foot in front of the other. Some days it's modeling for fucking Knicks and changing the world. Like they're right. But I think that's the point. I'm teaching people that the confidence to do things is not in a feeling that magically appears. It's

literally like we think of bravery. Like when I'm always like, oh man, I wish I was brave enough. But everything scares me. And yet I'm showing up. Like I'm so, I'm never, I'm never not literally shaking. And I'm sure you're the same before stepping onto a stage, you're shaking. And then you step forward. I'm like, that is confidence. I don't know what world I thought I was going to magically have this feeling that was going to come over me and walk with me through this life. It has always been, I choose this. And then the feeling sort of like accompanies it. But I've had to like go through all of like recognizing constantly that like I might be on a beach in a bikini and it took me like 25 steps to take that first one

in my head. And then I take that first one and I'm like, okay, let's go. We're here. And teaching other women that, that they can find that confidence in making those choices for themselves has been one of the greatest joys of my life because it has so little to do with our bodies and so little to do what you look like. And it has everything to do with how we show up and the memories that we create and how we're there for each other. And the fact that we're all going through it, we all live in the same system and the same society and how we show up for each other can be like a gift or it can be a plague. So I just, let's just keep being a gift to each other and doing the best we can with what we can and recognizing that mental health is a very big

thing that a lot of people struggle with. And you're definitely, definitely not alone, even when you feel like nobody could possibly understand what you're going through. See, I told you, I told you it was going to be a good one. Sarah Nicole Landry, thank you. Thank you for showing up just like you do every time for everybody in your community. And you did it as I knew you would today. And I'm just so honored to know you and your brilliance. And I'm always in your corner.

I am just so grateful that I could and I'm always in your corner. Uh, I, um, I am just so grateful that, that, uh, I could hear a little piece of your story. Uh, I will always, always be your biggest fan and a buoy if you need me. And, uh, I, I want to know where everybody can find you. We're going to put it all in the show notes, but tell me, tell me what's next. Tell me where you want people to go to find you. Before I do that, I just have to say one last thing to you, because at the very beginning of this episode, you said to me, you are just so smart. And I need you to know that when I was in the seventh grade, a teacher told my parents that I would never become anything. And that, um, I, yeah, that there was no, basically it was a pretty, my parents never told me that until I was an adult, which was like really awkward. Cause I said it on Facebook. Um, but I, to be told that I'm smart

as a woman who never went to university and all of these things that I thought would make a person smart. Um, thank you for that. Cause that was, that's like such a rare thing for me to ever hear. And I grew up always hearing that I wasn't going to be enough, except for my parents who always inflated me with delusion. And thank God for that. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. From the moment I met you and everyone in my audience, that first time you were in my Instagram stories, everyone was like, this is the dream team. This is so great. And I'm so excited because in the near future, you were also going to be on my podcast. And so I'm excited for us to kind of flip the script on you. But I just thank you for this time.

And thank you for opening me up to a very uncomfortable conversation for me still. And for the rawness and discomfort that we all will sort of experience in these conversations and how important they are. But for everyone who wants to come have fun and sometimes cry, it's like totally cool and fine. The birds papaya is where I am. That's I'm usually on Instagram, usually on Instagram stories. And I really will make you either laugh or cry. And there's really nothing in between. And if you're a podcast listener, I am at the papaya podcast. It has literally nothing to do with papayas, even though that one guy was so early disappointed and left a review that it didn't. I'm very proud of that

space. We've been podcasting for four years and we just have a lot of really curious conversations. So if you're a podcast person, hop on over there. If you're an Instagram stories gal, gone going over Instagram stories. If you want to be on TikTok, I'm like sometimes there when I have capacity for it. But yeah, I am all under the bird papaya and hope to see you there. Oh, thank you. You go follow everything will be in the notes. And to everybody else today, drop your shoulders. Think about your buoys, hang on to them tight, because we need you so much now more than ever and nothing more than just what you bring to this world. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you,

everybody. And I cannot wait to see you right back here next time. I'm a registered clinical psychologist here in beautiful Alberta, Canada. The content created and produced in this show is not intended as specific therapeutic advice. The intention of this podcast is to provide information, resources, some education, and hopefully a little hope. The Everyone Comes From Somewhere podcast by me, Dr. Jodi Carrington, is produced by Brian Seaver, Taylor McGilivray, and the amazing Jeremy Saunders at Snack Labs. Our executive producer is the one and only, my Marty Piller. Our marketing strategist is Caitlin Beneteau. And our PR big shooters are Des Veneau and Barry Cohen. Our agent, the 007 guy, is Jeff Lowness from the Talent Bureau.

And my emotional support during the taping of these credits was and is and will always be my son, Asher Grant.