Unlonely with Dr. Jody Carrington - What Does It Mean to Become Someone Else? – Stephen Kunken

Episode Date: December 19, 2024

Stepping into someone else’s shoes can be an art form—or a lifeline. Actor and director Stephen Kunken, known for Billions and The Handmaid’s Tale, takes Dr. Jody Carrington on a journey from the depths of method acting to the joys and challenges of adoption, fatherhood, and enduring relationships. Live from New York, Kunken shares insights on embodying complex characters, navigating fame, and balancing the demands of a public life with the sanctuary of family. From his Juilliard training to roles that explore humanity’s darkest and brightest corners, this episode is an exploration of what it means to connect—to ourselves and each other—in a disposable world.Follow Stephen on Instagram!@bigskunks Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton.

Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. at the beginning of every episode there will always be time for an acknowledgement you know the more we do this people ask why do you have to do the acknowledgement and every episode i gotta tell you i've never been more grateful for being able to raise my babies on a land where so much sacrifice was made. And I think what's really critical in this process is that the ask is just that we don't forget. So the importance of saying these words at the beginning of every episode will always be of utmost importance to me and this team. So everything that we created here today for you happened on Treaty 7 land, which is now known as the center part of the province of Alberta. It is home of the Blackfoot

Confederacy, which is made up of the Siksika, the Kainai, the Pekinni, the Tatina First Nation, the Stony Nakota First Nation, and the Métis Nation Region Three. Our job, our job as humans is to simply acknowledge each other. That's how we do better, be better, and stay connected to the good. Oh, hello, my fellow humans. Do I have an episode for you? This episode features probably one of the most famous people I've sat in front of. We did get to tape this interview live in New York and where this fella grew up. And when he agreed to do this interview, I was not only honored, but I had never been so nervous. I prepared for this thing. And you can hear in the beginning, I'm like trying to sound super cool because I'm throwing around all kinds of names of like actors that I don't even fucking know

about. And like, I'm just trying to impress him wildly. And so this, this interview is a bit of a journey. You're going to hear me be really kind of nervous in the beginning. And then we sink in to, I think, some of the most important conversations that I've had. You're going to meet actor and director Stephen Kunkin today. And I love this guy because I'm a huge fan of a couple of series right now. One is Showtime's Billions. It's a show called Billions. And then the other one that just sort of blew me away is The Henmaid's Tale. And The Henmaid's Tale, of course, is based on a Canadian Margaret Atwood book that I

think has just made waves and won multiple awards. And he plays Commander Putnam on Hulu's The Henmaid's Tale. And his film work includes work with Martin Scorsese, Steven Spielberg, Woody Allen, Paul Greengrass, like Greengrass, Ange Lee, like Barry Lemonson, Ron Howard. And I, you know, he graduated top honors from Juilliard. He is a Broadway star, multiple Tony Award winners, and film and screen. And in this episode, he speaks a little bit about how different those two things are, how you fall in love with characters, how you become not only empathic, but you have to embody, which is something that, you know, I'm always taught not to do as a psychologist. And so when we talk about navigating humanity in this world of playing other people and engaging with really trying to know humans

and fictional or otherwise, you know, what does that feel like? He dives in just so beautifully into his experience as a dad, you know, adopted he and his wife also in the business adopted a baby girl from Ethiopia. And so we talk about parenting and, you know, just his approach to the world, which is so refreshing to me and so insightful. He is one of the kindest humans I've had the honor of sitting in front of. And we taped this interview live, which was just such an honor for me to meet him in person. I'll share some pictures, you know, when we air this interview of, of what it was like, you know, just me stepping into his presence. Cause it looks like I'm a star struck child, which I was. So, uh, enjoy him, just sit in his presence and learn from his wisdom because,

uh, this is an interview I won't forget. Oh my gosh. So I'll do an introduction before, but I'll just kind of step in a little bit. Right into it. Ready. Oh my God. Okay. Listen, I've lost sleep over this interview. I cannot believe this. I am the most massive fan of today's guest, mostly because I am a huge, huge fan of a little show called Billions, a little show called The Henmaid's Tale. And I vehemently was so annoyed by a guy named Ari Spiros

when I would watch Billions excessively. I'm sorry. And I have Ari in the room with me today. Stephen Konkin, come on. Thank you. This is the biggest interview I've ever done in my life with the most important person. I've heard ones that are much more. No.

Okay. So here's what I want to know. We're talking so much about loneliness and disconnection. And I am so fat. I don't think I've ever met a real live actor in my life. Okay. Who is like of your caliber. We had one a couple of times. Jesse Lipscomb is a great friend of mine, does lots of Netflix stuff. He's brilliant. Your spectrum of characters, your Tony awardwinning. Your theater background is phenomenal. You were trained in Juilliard. Your depth of understanding how to step into somebody else is remarkable to me

because as a psychologist, I try to do this and less effectively in many days that into somebody else sitting in front of me who has maybe lost a child, who has decided their marriage is over. And I'm doing my very best to empathize and be alongside. One of the things they don't ever want us to do in this work is become them. It's not us. It's not me, right? Tell me about what it's like to become somebody else truly deeply. Yeah. I mean, method acting, your background in loving people like who i've just

this is my anton chekhov huh that's your guy that's my guy talk to me about how this is why you are so called to this work and obviously so brilliant at it um i mean probably laziness was the first the first thing um you I'll take it. You know, thank, thank you for that. I'm, you know, it's interesting. I started when I went to undergrad, I had no intention of going into acting. I went to a school called Tufts University. I thought I was going to go into political science. I took a one political science class and it just, you know, I'd done student government

in high school and I thought, wow, this is really what I want to do. I want to be with people. I want to talk to people. And that class was all about understanding trends and how do you manipulate the curve? And, and I, it just, it felt wrong. I didn't like it. And I started getting really interested in my, you know, core classes in psychology, ironically, you know, And abnormal psychology, I thought it was fascinating. It was the one class where I didn't have to study

because you just basically were like, you just listened. You listened, you took that in. I mean, obviously you needed to study and know what the disease was. For sure, for sure. But it was riveting to you. Yeah, it was riveting because people are riveting and watching people move through their daily lives

and be successful or not is riveting. And that's kind of what we do as actors. You know, it's exactly what you said. You are sitting across the way from your character. When you read a script for the first time and you know your cast, you are sitting across from and having a conversation with the character that you play. And you're hopefully moving closer and closer, but you're both moving towards each other. And so you ask a ton of questions, those given circumstances that your character,

that they're telling you, that the author tells you about, that other characters in the series or the script are telling you about your character, the way they talk about themselves, all those given circumstances are like a therapy session. And you have to ask those questions of your character without judgment. You know, judgment makes a performance ultimately inert. Okay. Because you just start presenting a thesis

about who this person is. And how scripted is that typically? Like, and maybe it's different in theater. Obviously obviously if there's something written before that you're just stepping into like a book that is very specific right but when somebody creates something like uh margaret atwood's book i guess there was a lot of switching in the handmaid's tale around things like how specific was that and i'll just give you a background a little bit about this character i mean i if you have you you tell me. Putnam is a dark, is a dark, I hear it said no judgment in the first. He's a dark, angry man. Son of a bitch.

Yeah, I mean, it's a world, you know, it's a, The Handmaid's Tale is this dystopian version of, you know, that Margaret Atwood wrote to talk about a conservative movement in this country that predates the one that we're in danger of really falling over the edge into now. And that's the scariness of it all, right? If you haven't watched this series, Sixth Season comes out in 2025. And it is just, it was so remarkable as a human to consider how close we could be to reverting back into a place where women become the bearers of children and nothing else. And so really dystopia, you know, a totalitarian approach to the world. And so there's a dictator and Gilead is the place that we create this space. And your character is one of so remarkable, his emotional experience, falling in love with the wrong people, what that looks like, and then the ramifications you make, or the consequences of that, I should say, and what that does to you. And can I just talk about Madeline Brewer?

Oh, she's amazing, right? Janine, yeah. Janine, who you fall in love with and you tell me the story. Well, I mean, you're, you are in the handmade style for anyone who hasn't read it. You know, a handmade is essentially your property and they are your breeder and, um, and you know, they're, they are like in the worst, in the worst way there, they are like your maid or your slave. And you can treat them like a human being if you choose to, or you can treat them like a slave. And, you know, I think there's this weird chasm that Putnam crosses where he sort of thinks that having a relationship is a gift to, to Janine. Um, it's that kind of strange abuse of power

that these people do where they somehow justify what they're doing, they're doing as a, as a gift. And he does that all of the, he does that all over the place in, in the series. He's it, you know, again, you have to do that. You have to try to find the empathy for the people that you play, which is tough in those situations. But we all have substitutions that we can say, well, I don't love that about myself, but that's the way I act in that situation. And you kind of have to live the character's situation as authentically as you can. Otherwise you don't really learn anything about these people. And I wish, and it would obviously be depicted on screen, right? Like as in your experience, like, can you watch people who, you know, and is maybe that is the gift that people who can truly not only have empathy for their character, but really feel with

a hundred percent. I mean, I, you can watch, look, there's many good actors as there are performances that move you. So, and what may move me not may not move somebody else. But when you see somebody working moment to moment and you say, wow, that's a, I totally buy that that person is having that emotional response to this thing. And when people are listening to each other in a really dynamic way, um, that's the, that's, that is the opposite of loneliness, even if it's, you know, that's, and that's one of the great things about working with actors who are present with you as a performer. And there's sometimes you work with actors who aren't sometimes that you've hermetically sealed what you're, whatically sealed what that person has hermetically sealed what they're going to do. And no matter what you give them or how you spring your impulses towards them, they have planned what they're going to do.

It's not often because I think those actors get sort of weeded out because they're not as interesting to watch. But you do. And that's loneliness. That's being lonely as a performer. But so, I mean, just to go back to your original, your original question, I, and it's true. I, I just could never pick what I wanted to do in life. And so I specialized in unspecializing, you know, I love the idea of constantly evolving and living in all for six months as a commander in a dystopian world. And then, you know, the head of the CIA or, or a compliance officer for a hedge fund, you know, all of those things you can go

quickly in a deep dive and feel and take on parts of the world that you would never have access to. Do you ever get too lost? Um, in the world? Yeah. In the characters. I mean i mean i and i i've heard this i mean i because i'm basically i mean basically in hollywood now um because i was on the today show yesterday that's pretty exciting yeah i know such i just wanted i haven't been on the today show i'm saying oh my god stop okay fine it's fine but i mean like interestingly so, interestingly, so Damian Lewis, Paul Giamatti, Maggie Siff, phenomenal people who no doubt each have their approaches to how they sink into characters. Can you have you ever do you notice? Have you ever seen anybody that goes too far into that world? I mean, you take on that character, you become that character. Does it affect the way you are as a husband, as a friend, as a, you know, can you shut those worlds off? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, there, there are characters that you have a very hard time putting down at night. Yeah. And you can also feel when a character is affecting you as you

begin to sort of have the osmosis with a character over time. And that happens a lot in theater. I mean, theater is a different, it's a different animal than film and TV because in film and TV, it's, you're building a character over a long period of time. But it's, but you're not revisiting the same ground over and over and over. So I imagine you can speak to this about therapy. It's like, if you talk one session about your 14th birthday party that your mom didn't give you, you know, the present you wanted and you felt mortally wounded. And then you never talk about it again. You don't continue to sort of evolve on that subject. Other things will you can go back to and look at that subject.

But in theater, you are just going to do eight performances a week talking about your 13th birthday party. And that just gets deeper and deeper and more emotionally connected. And in film and TV, it's now we're going to see another scene and we're going to see another scene and another scene. So they're, they're, they're different things. You, over time, your ability to snap in and out of character on film and TV is, becomes very facile because you're just like, you put on the suit and you walk in and you just know that person. But theater, theater, you just, it takes up more of your, your living space when you're does it. Yeah. And what's your preference? I mean, I think, you know, I I've done some directing now too. And so I know how much film and TV can be a director's medium. Um, and so your, your job as an actor in film and TV is

really to live your character and provide options. And then somebody else is going to create your performance. Um, and in theater, it's yours, you know? And in theater, the reason that there's another reason that that happens. And another reason that theater is less lonely in some ways than film and TV is because you have to build a community in the theater. The audience has autonomy in the theater to sort of look wherever they want to look. When the curtain goes up, there are lights that point you and point focus in a direction. But if you get bored and you wander over there, you can look at the person who's standing guard at the door. Yeah. And so there is an agreement that has to be made that all the players in the room of where the story is. And so you are all in it together when you are on stage and when the

curtain goes up. And if you decide you're going to go off and do something different that night, you've disrespected your, your, the process of, of the other people you were with so it is it it's that community is very very strong um it's also it's it's more like camp and school when you do film and and tv it's it's a great community because you're in it it's deep yeah if you do multiple seasons correct right you watch them evolve and then you lose character is there a grief of that like when somebody gets killed off or somebody dies, you'd be like, no, dumb choices. I mean, no spoiler alert about Handmaid's Tale. But yeah, I'm just, yeah, I mean, I talk to those people now all the time.

And it's, oh, you guys are having dinner at Pie in Toronto? I want to go to Pie in Toronto. I saw, like I think you had commented on one of the pictures or something because I was watching you know as you know wrap up for their warm-up for this next season and I was like I really had to look again I was like are you sure you're not coming back like it could it could something happen um which was the spoiler alert okay um I so one more question about this too is is really this idea around billions i i was so interested brian david andrew seem to be like the most phenomenal brilliant i could not stop watching the navigation of such very interesting character development um asia kate dylan one of the first depictions of a non-binary character. I cannot tell you how blown away I was by that human, how, you know, from scene to scene,

you became loved and hated and loved and hated. And, you know, like even your background, as I was reading about the book, sort of, you know, connection to Giamatti before, right right did you go to law school or something with him is that is that how the character you mean in billions in billions yeah yeah yeah and then you end up working for Axe right and just like how everybody hates you how but you were the most annoying coffee aficionado like always in the every time you come into scene I'd be like oh fuck why is he here and how do you do people ever what is that like when people see you in your real life i've seen you or i've seen fuck me look at i'm an actor now off camera uh you just said to me you can tell when people approach you where they recognize you ridiculous to. Yeah, just by the gate of the way somebody comes over.

You know, it's Brian and David and Andrew who really sort of didn't have a hands-on, but was sort of, Andrew sort of set it out, tried it out. Okay, I don't fucking know. I just made it up. No, no, it's good. But they really do an amazing job of helping those characters evolve over time. And they made a great, a very fun arc that I don't think they had any intention of making with Spiros at the beginning of when they did it.

I was working for Chuck at, you know, at the AG's office. Yeah. And then I had a great time. I love working with Paul and it was really fun. Did you? And then sort of that, oh, he's just fantastic. Is he fantastic? Kind of everybody on that show is.

Damien Lewis. It's a murderer's row of like every time you get in there with somebody you're like oh amazing i get to do a scene with damien i've done two series with damien now and what was the other one the other one was called a spy among friends where it takes it's about the cambridge spy circle that we did right at the we're not are we done with covid but right at the um right at the, we're not, are we done with COVID? But right at the beginning of the end of the first, you know, when everybody got, oh, the world opened up just enough so people would go back. And we shot it in the UK. I mean, he's brilliant. And he was working in his own accent, which was also like,

oh, right, you're British. I had no idea. Yeah. Um, but, uh, yeah, I mean, I'll go back to the question, like, how do people respond to you when you are the, you know, the turd in the punch bowl essentially is, um, you know, it's, it's, uh, it's a lot of fun. I, I, you know, I, the one thing that's hard is sometimes your name will come up on like a Google search and you'll get a notification and you'll be on some chat room and somebody will just, they, when somebody else can't separate the fact that you're an actor and

they just start coming after you and they don't realize that it's in your control, what you're doing and what you're presenting is what it is it's not it's not you and that separation when you read it in print and you know it's going to live there forever and your kid's going to end up reading it or just like you know i wish you were slightly more involved in knowing that that isn't steve kunkin is such an idiot um but uh i mean i love it i mean the weird characters the the characters that are you know know, the darker characters, the writers always love those people. And that's where a lot of the great stuff lies.

Isn't it so true? You really want that to evoke that emotion. Otherwise, you're not doing your job. Do you lose sight of who you are? How much work has to be done in the back end to be as successful to switch into these places? And I really wonder about that in terms of like therapy connected I mean you've been married to your wife who um Jen who is 2005 she's a stage director yeah tell me about this you know who's who are you off of all of these amazing things you play well you know my wife is a was a very successful child actor also and moved into

direct yeah and moved into directing you know as a second career and she's brilliant at it now and it's using all of her you know incredible talents but it's it's it's very helpful to have you know a fellow member of the circus in your family, as opposed to, you know, just a regular citizen, because the ups and downs of what we do and are pretty severe. You know, I think a lot of people, I had this experience on billions and the handmaid's tale, which is, you know, you go, I would fly to Toronto where we shoot the handmaid's tale and Putnam would walk through a big cabinet meeting and disappear. And everybody watching it thinks that you're up there all the time because you just exist in that world. So I wonder what

happened in that room. They probably filmed that thing, but that's one day and you don't come back for, you know, and I would fly home. And then a month and a half later, you know, you know, I'm shooting the next scene. You just assume Putnam is there all the time, but in reality, that's two days worth of work over three and a half months. And so having somebody else in your life who knows that and knows what that costs you and, you know, uh, isn't, is incredibly important. Oh my gosh. And how in this climate, this landscape, which again, keep in mind, I'm very green in this process. Having a long-term committed relationship seems to be, um, it's huge, difficult. And to answer, well, it is.

And I, I had no template for that for when I was growing up. I hadn't, you know, I'm, I'm the son of a dentist and. And a teacher. Yeah. And a teacher. Your mom was a teacher. I have such a love for teachers and I hate for dentists. So it's interesting that they would come together.

But he was a pediatric dentist. Oh, God love him then. He's lovely. He was amazing. Are they still alive? Yes, they both are. I shouldn't say. They were great.

They were great. Now they suck. No, he was an amazing child. And people, you know, the best is for my dad, especially. And this has happened where people come over and they go, are you Stephen Cunck? And you go, yes best is for my dad, especially. And this has happened where people come over and they go, are you Stephen Cunckin? And you go, yes. Yes, I am.

And they go, your dad was the only reason that I'm able to go to the dentist to this day. Because he was such a, he gave the best shot. No thanks. Yes. No, no, it's, and I'm thrilled by it, but it's, but I had no template for what life in the arts would be. You know, my parents have a really amazing relationship, and I was incredibly lucky, so much so that I remember when I was at Juilliard in my first year,

and you did the circle of people who were sort of opening up about their childhood trauma, that I remember going up to the head of the school and saying, can I book an appointment? And I'd be like, I don't know that I have a childhood trauma yet. And I'm extremely worried. I really want one. Yeah, I'm really worried that I have blown it.

And, you know, we all have childhood drama. It just takes a little bit longer. It just wasn't further enough evolved. But to answer your question, and it's two questions at once, it's hard to leave certain roles. And being in a committed relationship is the ballast because that person knows who you are when you're you and they know when you're starting to be affected by something else. And it all becomes one because it's really one of the only art forms where you are the instrument. You are playing the instrument.

A violinist can go, I can't play today and put that down. And it's not the same for us. You know, we are using our entire spirit. And if somebody doesn't like my big ears in the character, that's me. I wear those when I go home. Yes. And so when they criticize my ears, now everybody's like, wow, he does it. Um, you know, that's, those are, that's mine. That's what, that's how

I'm going to have to walk in the world. So it's hard to, it is hard to separate that. But if you have somebody who knows what you do and knows what it costs you to do it, um, you know, I'm not sure when this is going to come out, but by the, by the time this comes out, I probably will be over in the UK, you know, doing a show, uh, in the West end. And, you know, that's time away from my wife and my family. And, and it's so, and, and, you know, I have a 15 year old daughter and she needs that right now, but having a spouse who looks at you and goes, you haven't had that job in a while where I see you light up and I see you invigorated. So you need to go do that. When you find that person, then you know that you have the right person. Hey, everyone.

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Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push, find your power. Peloton, visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca.

So I feel, Steve, that this is such an important conversation because the breadth of relationships are so easy these days. Okay. So I find this, you know, even in a very, and forgive me, but in like, I would say like a superficial place, we're in New York right now as we do this, where it's so easy, things seem to be so topical, right? Do you have the right shoes? Do you have the right things? And like, you know, you look everybody up and down before you step into, you know, having a conversation, right? The depth of relationships seem to be more and more difficult to come by. So we're the first generation of parents. We're the first generation of humans, of, of employers, employees that have this much access to everybody. So when I get disgruntled with the people that I love, the people who do know about my big ears or the way that I am such a shitty, you know, asshole if I haven't slept three days or whatever. Right. And it's so much easier to find somebody else who will love me for what I am in this moment daughter, to be able to sort of be in that

place of being able to serve and do this work and create entertainment for people, but then also put that away. I did down, I think is one of the secrets of this life. Yeah. Because if you, we are going to continue to do this in any way, right? How do we create those sanctities? And it, I think it's going to be the greatest work of all time because it is so easy not to. Yeah. Well, we're in a, we're in a disposable culture and it's, you know, I live in the shadow of Ikea. Ikea is great for what it is, but you know, my grandmother on my mom's side was an estate sales person, you know, that was her second career. And I remember being a little kid and going in and she would be like, that's a

Chippendales, you know, that's a Chippendales armoire. And you would look at the workmanship and this was something that was passed down from generation to generation to generation. And if you put your wet coffee mug on that and you put a stain, you put a stain on it, not just for you, but for you know, the generations. And now it's, you know, you just, you have the coffee table, you put the Allen key in it. And if you don't like it at the end of a year, you throw it in the trash and you see it go in the back of the garbage can and it's over. And I think we're also being fed this steady stream of, and you know what? Look how beautiful life is. Look how awesome that they're on a trip to Puerto Rico and they are so happy. Oh, you're not.

So they're frolicking. They're frolicking for God's sake. There's something like the highlight reel, you know? And so the work that I think, what's your take on that? What does it take to do that inner work that,'ll just speak to myself. The opportunities, the more public you become are one in a billion because people think you're somebody else. People love you for your fame, your fortune, all of these things. How, what's, what's the secret in knowing that Jen is the place that will regulate you? Time, you know, you have to commit that time and that's, and I think you, the way to, to do that is to sort of disconnect and go away to other places. You know that I think when a lot of famous people sort of talk about, and I, and I have

this in a, in the very smallest degree, so I'm hardly complaining either. And so if you, if you see me anywhere and you want to like come talk to me, I'm happy to do that. But I know, I know people who are, who are really like household icons and they can't go anywhere. They can't disconnect anywhere. And they can't go anywhere. They can't disconnect anywhere. And they're always on. You have to always be conscious when you're that person.

Because you fuck it up once and it becomes a national issue. A hundred percent. Right. You know, you're getting yogurt and you're having a fight about like, I didn't give her yogurt already once today. I did. Hey, you're this guy. Can I do it?

And you're like, he's so terrible. He was telling his wife that she doesn't know how to feed their child yogurt yeah i mean it's it so you never thought about how much pressure that is you mean you want and you know that's you have to go away to a place where you just sort of disconnect and that gets harder and harder and harder and harder to do because what we do proliferates everywhere and everything is public. You've never been, this work has never been this successful, even in theater, you know, like you used to be able to just, you know, nobody would know if you had to come to see the play,

I would see your work. I would know that. Like, think about that. That's like just one generation ago. Yeah. Like we, I didn't have a computer in high school. Certainly not, not even in grad school. I don't think. And so now in one generation, we have so much, people have so much access to us. Well, you think about during the pandemic, like there's the shoot, the, the, so the show suits that, you know, those people put that in the can years. And then people in the pandemic were like, Hey, that's shows great. And you'd watch the 30 second clip. And suddenly that show is the hottest show on TV, modern family, you know, all of these things were, and I, every now and then I get that where somebody will be sitting there and call up some

movie that I did 20 years ago and they just watched it last night or that clip becomes, you know, I, I was in that movie, the J.D. Vance movie, Hillbilly Elegy. And so, and like, I haven't thought about that movie. Sorry, you know, here, just a second. So like, I was just in that movie, Hillbilly Elegy. I'm sorry. I cannot fucking wait. I think that's the greatest thing about you. Yeah, it's-

Okay, so time out for a second. Yeah, yeah. Do you know how amazing you are? Is there ever a moment that you, but like, I mean, I'm so impressed with your training, your background. This was a committed effort to create who you've become today. It didn't just happen by chance, which nothing I appreciate happens by chance. But do you ever have a moment where you're like, I've raised a beautiful, I'm raising a beautiful family.

I have been wildly successful in the things that I never even dreamed I could be. I can speak about my mother and a father, my father in a way that is just so wholesomely beautiful. Like, do you ever have a moment where you can be like, look at what I am and the gift you've given to the people that get the honor of watching you do your work? Go down the – no, I don't. Really? Yeah. I mean, there are moments where I – yeah, there are moments where I feel my interpersonal life. I'm like, wow, I can look around the table and be like, I'm surrounded by the people I love and who love me. And I can feel that.

The other part of it, I can point to performances and moments in performances where I really feel like I achieved something that I wanted to, to achieve. Yeah. But a lot of the time I do, when I see I'm, you know, you have that thing where you hear your first, when you, the first time you hear your recorded voice and you go, I don't sound, do I sound like, I don't look. And so I, I see a lot of what I don't like about, about what I perform more than I see the thing I like. It's one of the great reasons that I like doing theater. It's because theater, you're just in it. And if you weren't there that night and you didn't see it, you don't know what I did.

Too bad. Yeah. It's a great question. I don't, I mean, but my first response was, I don't spend a lot of time. And that's a mistake because gratitude is really the place that where you get back to loneliness. It's the, it's, it's one of the ways that you combat loneliness. It's the antidote, I think. I really do. And I never thought about,

you know, thank you for this insight around, you know, in this world of acting, you, when you create characters, they become your friends, they become your colleagues, you know, in this world of acting, when you create characters, they become your friends. They become your colleagues. You know, they become the people that you hang out with. But they won't last for long. So the idea then to step into the people that, you know, where is that safety net when people are looking for you to often be somebody else? How do you create that safe space of people who know you as just Steve with a dad for a dentist and a mom for a teacher? Do you have siblings? I have a brother. Yeah. Yes. Older

brother. Is he great? He's amazing. Yeah. He's great. He's not in the business. He could have been because he's super duper talented, but he didn't. He's in new media and he's brilliant at that. And he's raising two great boys. My two nephews are great. I'm very close still. Like my oldest, bestest friend. Of course you are. That's phenomenal. And I want to know a little bit about your daughter.

So you adopted this sweet babe from Ethiopia. Yeah. A journey in creating a family. What was that like for you and Jen? It was, you know, it was amazing. It was an amazing journey and continues to evolve and to be an amazing journey. And mostly just because she's an amazing human being. Oh, she's a, she's a, she's a rock star.

We talked about that when we off, um, before we started today about just how being a parent is probably the greatest challenge of all time. And you can be great at so many fucking things. You can have Emmys and award-winning all this shit. And then the most humbling experience of your life. Oh, I mean like a hundred percent. And that's another way to sort of, that's the other ballast of when you're feeling like I blew it and the person goes dinner or, you know, where's the dinner? And you're like, oh, right. It doesn't really matter that I didn't get that. Or it doesn't really matter that I got it and people are, like, saying I'm the greatest thing in the world. It's still dinner.

You know. And she's, you know, she is a remarkable human being. She is resilient and, like, forward thinking and thinking about, you know, the planet. And she can, you know, she's now at that age, too, where she is really, like, she's very challenging to, you know, the planet and she can, you know, she's now at that age too, where she is really like, she's very challenging to, you know, the status quo. And, and it's, it's funny when I will say something, you know, we'll have an argument about anything about her use of social media, about, you know, what should be the things that you desire in life?

Should it be, you know, like find your, find the thing that's important to you that means something. And, you know, she can combat a lot of, you know, the rhetoric now with well articulated arguments. And you're like, just a second, back that up. I know we have, I have a 14 year old and twins who are 11 and I have never, ever, I've never been more hopeful for the next generation than I am in this

moment because we have conversations around the kitchen table that I wouldn't a never been safe in in my generation but b I would have never even considered and some of the conversations around gender identity and acceptance and you know just sort of like their nonchalant way my son our oldest challenges me all the time in terms of like no no no that that is not how you say what. What are you? And I'm like, are you, how do you not get this mom? Yeah. The incompetence that that brings up. And so, um, she, your hopes, your dreams, this babe, is she going to be in the business? Is she interested in her dad's work? Does she think you're ridiculous? She thinks we're, we're ridiculous. Um, she's she, I, right now, at least, I don't know what she'll evolve into. I mean, every, every teacher says when she's like in the school play that she, they're

like pretty, really good. And she's, and she's, yeah, she is beautiful. And she could, if she wanted, I don't, I think I can't tell whether right now she's just doesn't want to go into the family business or whether, and that'll come and get her later. But she doesn't really think that way. I think it may skip a generation. I don't know. Um, but, uh, yeah, I was just going to say something else, but right. I was free associating when you said something you'd seen before. That was so interesting. I'll get back to it. I'll remember. Um, but I don't, I don't know. I, I, I, I hope she does because I think it's a very

great way to plugged in way to live your life. And do you spend a lot of time in Ethiopia? Did you – how did you come – how old was she when she – She was a baby. Really? And so we were – we saw her at five months. We were over there and we made that trip and it was – you know, it's interesting because whatever that relationship is between parent and child, I think there's always the worry that like how, unless we're connected through our DNA, that's going to be a hard bond to have. And I remember the moment that we were matched and we saw the first picture of our daughter and it was like, well, yeah, of course. And I would have taken a bullet for my kid from a picture just by seeing the picture. Before you even touched her. saw the first picture of our daughter and it was like, well, yeah, yeah, of course. And, and I

would have taken a bullet for my kid from a picture just by seeing the picture. Before you even touched her. Yeah. And it's the, I think it's the idea of being a parent. It's the commitment to being a parent. That is the, that is, that's the relationship. That's to me is, is where the commitment, it's the commitment to each other. And you know what I love about adoption stories? So my sister, my full biological sister was adopted, and I never knew she existed until I was in my late 30s. My parents got pregnant when they were 17 and didn't tell anybody. Bound my mom's belly.

They were both staunchly Catholic, lived, you know, four miles apart from each other in this small farming community. And she bound her belly. And my father, they made up a lie when she was 17 and took her to a home for unwed mothers. And they said she took a job away for a few months. And she had my sister and, you know, was heartbroken through the whole process, but knew there was no other way. My sister was adopted by a family that lived an hour and a half from our front door.

And we were in university. We live six blocks away from each other at the same university. Wow. And she looks just like my mother. She sounds just like me. Like it's really remarkable. And I have such a love for her parents, mostly because they gave her everything that my parents wanted to but couldn't.

Right. And I often marvel now, being on the other side of that, just how much love there is in anticipation for that baby, how hard it is to break those barriers and do those things. And the stories around adoption and commitment to relationship before you even have any idea how that's going to play out and how difficult that is. It's just remarkable. Yeah. Well, an international adoption also is a whole

other kettle of fish because it's, I mean, it's just, you know, those are, those are the labor pains, you know, in many ways, because when you find yourself being like, okay, you're going to go see national, you know, national security, and you're going to go to this, you know, this shopping center you've seen all of your life, but you're going to push the button at the bottom that nobody's ever pushed. And then suddenly doors are going to open in a national security office and you're going to get fingerprinted and they're going to go through every tax return. And, you know, as you should, you're, you're, you are, yeah. However, you know, that commitment, all those pains, the pains of thinking that your number might be coming up

and you might be matched soon and then it doesn't or something falls through or this program shuts. And I know so many stories that are so harrowing about people being matched and then the match falls through. Oh, gosh, yes. By the time you see that person, you know that person and you're deeply connected to that person just through, you know, the pain, you know, of, of trying to get there, of trying to get to them desperately. And they had no idea. And they had no idea.

But it is, I mean, it's, it's, you know, we live in the world, you know, we, we live a big life a, because we are front facing you know theater and film professionals and we're not the same color in our family so it's you know we're loud and proud how much an adolescent kid wants to be loud and proud i don't know dad yeah i know we had talked about yeah you bring her today i love it you're you're like she would love that for sure yeah she was on the she came it was the end of the end of the beginning of COVID. I guess we did a lot of work. I was doing handmaid's tale and said the day where Putnam meets his,

his interesting end. And I had to bring Naomi because my wife was out of town working somewhere else and there was just nowhere else. So Naomi came to the set that day and so funny because I'm, you know, trying to figure out how to play this final scene. And she was in my trailer for a big chunk of the day. And so funny because I'm, you know, trying to figure out how to play this final scene. And she was in my trailer for a big chunk of the day. And a certain point I see her waving off camera and she's completely

sweating. And I was like, what's the matter? And she said, you know, the heat is broken in your trailer and it's like 200 degrees. It felt so badly. I know the heat in a trailer, you know, that sort of dry, like air balloon. I felt so bad. So she ended up watching Saving Private Ryan with Bradley Whitford for the rest of the day. Oh dear. There's no problem with that. It's exhausting. Yeah. I was like, what a poor kid. Yeah. Now she's been exposed to blood and gut and murder. And like, I feel like that's right. You know,

on the way home, we'll just don't have that. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Perfect. Oh my gosh. Okay. I want to talk a little bit about as we kind of wrap up here but this is probably one of my most important questions is what's next for you oh i know something big is coming and i just i want to know every inch of it so i can share i can share that i'm making dinner tonight and it's gonna be amazing um. That's it. Thank you very much. Yes, it was great. Trader Joe's right at you. No, so I've had the great fortune of stepping on the other side of the lens for a while. I did a feature called Before, During and After, which I loved. And it's a, you know, a sort of a post romantic love story. You know, it's about a divorce and I,

I loved it. And there's something about directing that just feels for me, like it, it, my, every ounce of my instrument gets played. I love it. I can see it in you. I'm a photographer. I love, I love pictures. I love working with actors, trying to figure out the psychology of it. It's just, I love being the leader of a team and trying to get people to do their best work. And,. And so I'm very excited to get to do it again. And one of a writer named Richard Nelson, who I've collaborated with, I think more than any other writer, this would be my eighth collaboration with him, saw my first feature and wanted to work on something together and said, tell me what you think of this script. And it's this beautiful script called the red house. And it's about, um, it is about the life of JD Salinger, uh, who wrote the catcher in the rye and is just such a quintessential figure. And,

um, in certainly in, in literature and in the States. And I think around the world, such a, you know, that book catcher in the ride is so important to so many people. Well, because I think it's, it's the first time that, you know, you, most people approach that book and in a period of time when they've gotten a bunch of classics in a row and they've written their term papers about this class. You've had to read it. Yeah. You've had to read this.

You had to read this. And then somebody hands you this crimson collegiate red book with this yellow lettering and your world changes. People look at you differently because, you know, people on the bus, people, your parents, other teachers, because they know you're going to be different on the other side of that book because it's, he writes so baldly about what it is to be alive and feel disaffected and to question authority and to want to be connected. It is all about loneliness in, in the world. And this is, you know,

he wrote it on the battlefield of world war two. This was a guy who had just, you know, landed a D day and was working his way up through Normandy. And there, you know, there's a picture of him sitting on a typewriter, writing this, this story about connection and, and feeling disaffected. And so that book means a lot to a lot of people, meant a lot to me. And Richard Nelson, who's this writer, his work has the same kind of impact on me. We talk about it sometimes.

The one thing we're taught as an actor is to never look down the barrel in a scene. Barrel is that. So right now I'm looking directly down the barrel. And it feels like so much of your life is spent in this kind of a conversation and you're there watching. And the experience of reading Catcher in the Rye is if that writer turns to you

and looks you right in the eye and says- Ooh, I love that. And this is a fictional representation of a period that was true in Salinger's life. It's not a biopic. It's not going to sort of try to invade his privacy over a long period of time. It's really about Salinger spending a summer with the son of his closest war buddy, who at the start of the movie takes his own life.

And basically, there's nowhere to put this young man and his younger sister. And so they spend the summer with Salinger, a guy who chronicles youth and chronicles adolescence. And now he's going to have to sort of raise this young man through this period of time. And it's a brilliant lens to appreciate who this guy was. And he has such an interesting life because, of course, I didn't, I mean, I haven't read the book. So when I was reading about it, I was like, how did I know this feels like a psychologist dream? Oh yeah. Because he was just so interesting in his emotional connection to humans and that his complete disconnection in real life that he just could not handle, you know, what it meant off

script. And I just thought like, what a beautiful depiction of a really what acting is in so many ways, right? Like you can dive so deeply and want to be so present and can be so present and can that transition back into real life. And he was just so hurt and so disenfranchised by really what happened off out of the typewriter. Yeah. And so like, what is your greatest hope for this piece have you cast anybody we have a bunch of people that you know we have a wish list and you know it's lucky i've spent i've spent my the majority of my career in a giant casting session feeling oh yeah you're really good i think it'd be fantastic so um i have a wish list and and you know he's such a an indelible incredible character and in this movie you know

i'm sure we're gonna get somebody who's who's fantastic um and we'll just make a fabulous meal out of it oh um the red house listen listen the red house the red house uh stay tuned like what is the goal when when will this become well i have i have one other project that I mentioned before. Oh, yeah. You're going to the UK. This is not this? This is not this. What's this one?

This is a play. Oh, no. Yes, because this is an airing tomorrow. Is this an airing tomorrow? No, no, no. Thank goodness. So I did a play for the Royal Shakespeare Company called Kyoto, which is this. Oh, my God, yes. It's just all about the Kyoto Climate Accords.

And that was the first piece of legislation where the world committed to doing something about climate change. And it's just another one of these string of characters I play where I play the one guy who tried to stand in the way. You work an oil lobbyist named Don Perlman who's tried desperately to kill the accords

at every possible- Really? And it's a brilliant tale because it is exactly – the story is about how this event happens in spite of him and what he learns. And it was an amazing – it's directed by Stephen Daldry and Justin Martin who are two of my absolute favorite directors. And so we're – it was a big enough hit and it was great. Kudos to all those creatives we're moving into the west end which is like the broad way of of moving to london and so that we'll do

a we will do a run there which will be super exciting uh unless something happens and then this comes out and like yeah they didn't get the money didn't happen sorry they lost the theater but um but so how long will it run? I think it's going to run about four months. Really? So, yeah. And so you stay there the whole time, typically? I'll stay there the whole time. Digging deep.

Yeah. Do the girls come over at all? They will come over a lot. I mean, I feel like London is a second home for me. I have family there. I absolutely love it there. I feel like a part of my soul lives in the UK. Oh, my gosh.

We're going to take the kids there next july uh i have irish background no and aaron has scottish background and we've never been in in london proper yeah i've never been anywhere in england and so we're planning all the things and i just can't wait we have a taylor swift rock star like in my house she thinks she's taylor and so we cannot like we have to touch all the things yeah that means all the things and i can't i'm blown away by the city and so i'm i'm so excited maybe like it'll have a second run and yeah i mean there's gosh i'll be a methuselah at that point but i'm still doing the play. It's one of those things that I think right now in the world,

we have this very, very small window left to sort of maybe do something about our planet, which is this existential crisis staring at us. And the end product of that show, which I felt so hopeful about is it's, it's, it's just about the commitment. It's a bad goes back to what I said. If, if people just will it something to wanting it to happen, it can happen. And the tremendous problems, you just have to want it badly enough. And, and,

and that's ultimately what got it across the line. A lot of machinations, a lot of like, uh, you know, backroom dealings, but it was the will to want to do that. And we can achieve anything if we all get on board. And when it means something in your bones, right. It's something so specific and, and, and being sort of in this place as the, um, I don't know what the word is, but the guy that's trying to stop it all has got to be just such an interesting experience for you. Oh yeah. I mean, it's that it's, you know, it's the jump off point of this of like what it's like to play the,

the guy who's the villain. I think I'm a, I'm a, I'm a halfway nice guy. Oh my gosh. Okay. And that, I mean, that takes us right here to the end because I have to tell you, you know, when you're listening to this today, I, um, I had lots of expectations about Steve and Konkin and all I have ever heard by anybody and things that have been written about you that you're just so well respected in this industry that you are so kind and so thoughtful and so really such a humanitarian at heart. And I'm just blown away by you, your presence. I mean, if you can't feel this, uh, you know, wherever you're listening to

this today, um, I got to tell you, uh, he's a superhero, so I can't wait for the red house. I can't, I feel like I'm going to have to fly to London now. Um, it's just going to be exhausting, but there's all of these things that we need to do. You need to be in the movie. You heard it here first. Yesterday's a Today Show. Now I'm going to be cast in the Red House. So you're welcome.

We'll do the contractual stuff after. You know what I mean? Later, later. Yeah, it's fine. This is basically a handshake deal. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your time.

Thank you. I am a massive fan. I cannot wait to see how you continue to change this world. You're remarkable. You're the best. Thank you. And thank you for all of your episodes, which are unfolding for me and changing my world. You're amazing. All right, friends, take care of yourself, take care of each other. And I cannot wait to meet you right back here again next time. Unlonely Podcast is produced by three incredible humans, Brian Seaver, Taylor McGillivray, and Jeremy Saunders, all of Snack Lab Productions.

Our executive producer, my favorite human on this planet, is Marty Piller. Soundtracks were created by Donovan Morgan. Unlonely branded artwork created by Elliot Cuss. Our big PR shooters are Desvino and Barry Cohen. Our digital marketing manager is the amazing Shana Hadden. Our 007 secret agent from the talent bureau is Jeff Lowness. And emotional support is provided by Asher Grant, Evan Grant, and Olivia Grant. Go live. I am a registered clinical psychologist in Alberta, Canada. The content created and produced in this show is not intended as specific therapeutic advice.

The intention of this podcast is to provide information, resources, education, and the one thing I think we all need the most, a safe place to land in this lonely world. We're all so glad you next time. They've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton.

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