Unlonely with Dr. Jody Carrington - Why Helpers Break Down: The Hidden Cost of Holding Everyone Else’s Pain - Malaysia Harrell

Episode Date: February 5, 2026

If you’ve built your whole life around being capable, dependable, and “fine”… what happens when your body says otherwise?Dr. Jody talks with Malaysia Harrell about the hidden cost of being the helper—how childhood trauma can fuel achievement, how high-stakes service roles stack layer upon layer of vicarious trauma, and why so many women stay in fight-or-flight until something finally forces a reckoning.This episode connects the dots between:Overfunctioning and emotional shutdownRepeating patterns in work and relationshipsTrauma that’s neatly “packed away”… until it isn’tThat unsettling moment of success without satisfactionContent notes: childhood abuse, death row/corrections, murder of a family member, severe illness/sepsis, near-death experience.---Links & Resources:• Malaysia Harrell | Sepsis Alliance: https://www.sepsis.org/faces/malaysia-harrell/• 413: Rising from the Ashes with Malaysia Harrell - The PBT Institute: https://thepbtinstitute.com/risingfromashes-malaysiaharrell/• HOME | Malaysia Harrell: https://www.malaysiaharrell.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Malaysia Heral. We talk a lot around here about powerful women. And I want to know, take it from the top, about what happens when trauma shows up in your body. After you've served in the military, after you've been in child welfare, after you have been a corrections officer on death row, after you have done all of these incredible things, when did you know that hanging on to other people's most biggest pain was going to intersect with yours? that is such thank you dr jody for that question because you know being a person who had experienced my own trauma as a child you know a lot of us who've been in that situation we become the helpers right we want to save the world from anything that could happen to children or anyone else and so you don't identify with it you know you have this alter ego or this mask that you where to say that, you know what, I'm successful and I'm going to have the better life than I ever thought I was going to have when I was a child. And so you go into this world of, I'm here and I went through those things to help save everyone else. I don't exist when it comes

to that. And it wasn't until I had my own near-death experience in 2020 that it really broke all of that down because when I was no longer able to care for myself, I was no longer looking the way I looked. I, you know, I had nine surgeries in the past five years. And I had, I was 254 pounds because of the other ailments that came after the sepsis. I had sepsis after deployment. And then I had Bell's palsy. So imagine everything that you thought, right, was good and that was successful was society deems as successful, all of that stuff, many of it comes to a halt. And then you're forced to say, who am I now? And oh, by the way, all of those childhood traumas and vicarious traumas of all the jobs that I've done

are nicely stacked up in this closet. They're labeled. I don't want to go there. I don't. But then something happens and they all come crushing out. That's when you are forced. to look at yourself internally. Yes, ma'am.

Do you think that happens to women a lot? I do. Or people, humans. I do. I think it happens in different ways, though, right? Okay. Because, again, some women don't identify. Again, I'm going to do everything for everyone else,

and I'm going to stay in my fight or flight, because if I sit down, I know that I'm going to be depressed. I know that I'm not going to be able to move forward with some of the things that have happened to me. And it materializes in different ways. So some is mental. Some is in your body, right? The body keeps the score. I went to that training with the author. Best of Vanderkoke. Yes. He's amazing. And he comes to the DMV all the time. And so it does, you know, you have women who have heart conditions, right? You have all these different, they present anxiety, depression. They present in so many.

different ways. And so I don't know if people identify it, you know, with what that is. But I do think that it does ultimately present in different ways. It can present in your relationships. So I have clients who say to me, you know, I keep moving jobs and I keep having the same experience. Or I keep dating and I have the same experience with a different person. So it presents in many different ways. Oh, dear God. I mean, this is what we talk about all the time around here, is that, you know, anxiety and depression won't kill you, but not talking about it might. And when you have tried your whole life to stuff and avoid and numb, it will catch up to you. Oh, yes.

And that's the shitty truth of sort of navigating, doing holy work. You know, you were deployed. Can you actually, what I'd love for my community to know is can you take me back to the beginning and just sort of give me a bit of a timeline around. you know, what that was like in your childhood, what, how those, some of those traumas started to stack up early. And then, you know, when you stepped into service and, and these multiple areas that you've served and can you, can you walk us through that a little bit? And then we'll, we'll kind of circle back to this sort of breaking through into the world.

Yes, absolutely. I just love this opportunity, by the way. Some of us, we don't want to deal with it. We want to be cute. But I'm like, nope, I survive for a reason. and this is exactly why for me to talk with you today. And so I grew up, you know, like many people with impoverished area, there were times when we didn't have food. I remember going to Catholic charities, you know, and different food lines, food pantries.

And then I would also be of service. So I would volunteer at these places as well. And so, you know, when I was with my mom, I think she struggled. not I think, she struggled a lot. She was a single parent of three girls and she, you know, started to become addicted to alcohol and prescription meds and things like that. And so I think she had dealt with a lot of traumas in her life as well, but ultimately, you know, a lot of that was taken out on me. And so I was, you know, the person that experienced all the different types of abuse, you know, that children can experience at her hands and at other people's hands as well.

And it wasn't until one day that my uncle came to visit and she wouldn't open the door. That's the thing. She would keep us away from people and isolate it. So I didn't play outside a lot. But long story short, the police, he called the police and the police came to do a welfare check and I had bruises all over my body. And I didn't go to school that day. And I had learned how to hide the bruises, you know, wear different clothes and the different.

And so I went to live with my grandmother. That was her mom. And her mom, my great-grandmother, they were very instrumental in my life. And so they taught me, Dr. Jody, like, basically, you know, don't show any motion. Like, I became a beast. You hear me? I was in junior ROTC. I was getting every award.

I was in every STEM cell, not STEM cell, STEM program. Like I was a reading or writing program at a college university when I was in middle school. These women were badass. They were like, let's go. Yes.

Yes. And you probably were so desperate for that structure, that predictability. And it can often go, as you know, in the child welfare system, it can often go one of either two ways, right? When that structure comes into play and you so need it.

You just sort of sink into that because that's going to be your survival. Your sisters, were they along in that process as well? Well, they stayed there at the time, and of course I struggled with a lot of grief, you know, and guilt because I, you know, left them there. And so, yeah, they had their own battles after I left, you know. Of course, of course.

That they had to face. They became, you know, young mothers, you know. And so, yeah, it was challenging. I can imagine. But they're doing very well now. They're doing very much. Are they? This resilience in this family is remarkable.

And so these, this mom, or sorry, your grandma, your great grandma, they sort of walked you into this place and gave you a sense of safety and security. That's where the resilience starts really to manifest or to be born, hey? Definitely. They, you know, because I remember I wanted to be a model and they stopped. They let me do the local shows, but I had gotten a scholarship to John Casablanca's, you know, at that time. And I graduated from the program, but they stopped all that. They were like, no.

You know, they were from the South, right? We grew up in Massachusetts, but they migrated from the South. So they came from a different cloth and they made sure that I was set up for success for this world. I'll tell you that. Wow, wow. I just, as you speak about them, I could just see in your soul how precious they are to you. Oh, yeah. And then what?

Then, then where did you step into? When it went, you know, this, this act of service started very young. The Air Force right away or what happened? No, so I was in high school and I joined junior ROTC. Yeah. You know, I couldn't be a Girl Scout. I always wanted to be a Girl Scout or a Brownie. My mom didn't have money for that.

So I was able to do it, you know, in high school. And so at that. I remember the late great Chief Master Sergeant Henry Palmer. His daughter was one of the uh-huh girls. I don't know if you remember from the Pepsi commercials with Ray Charles. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And so he instilled so much in me as well. Like, I mean, it was a bit of, you know, solace that was there just knowing that I could be a leader and I could turn all of that energy into greatness. And he wanted me to go to the Air Force Academy. I remember, I remember, member, they had, he had someone come to recruit me and another gentleman. And at the time,

you know, I didn't, my whole world was ROTC. You know, I was working seven days a week. So I was working at McDonald's. I started when I was 14 and a half. And I became a manager at 16. So again, I had all, I mean, I was, again, outward, everything was great. Yeah. Yeah. Great. And so then after high school, I went, you know, of course, I'm going to become a mental health. I was going to become a psychiatrist. Went to college, right? I got to see what's wrong with everybody. Like, why is this happening? You know, and so I went, you know, to undergrad and I didn't become a, I took all the pre-med courses, but when I realized that psychiatry didn't really do therapy, it was really for the medication management, I decided to go a different way. So I became a correctional officer.

I worked a couple other jobs, became a correctional officer again. So I said, what is my purpose? So I thought prison reform. I thought, you know what, if we're going to have these people come back into society, that will be my platform. That's what I'm going to do. And so I started off as a correctional officer, got promoted on my, it was eight month anniversary or eight month probation. The day my probation ended, I got promoted to correctional counselor. And that's when I went to work, you know, on the death row in the state of Connecticut. And yeah. So I started my master's in social work because I found out that, oh, you could have a private practice. You could do therapy. So I got I started that degree when I was working in the prison system.

So I was going to school. And so when I was a correctional officer, I was doing third shift. And I was going to school. I had an internship and I was a substitute teacher. I was I was never going to be poor. You hear me? Oh, I do. And you were never going to have more than two seconds to reflect on how you got here,

what might have went wrong. No, thank you. That's right. Wow. Drive. Drive. to the core of you. Wow. Wow. Okay. And then I got engaged in, to someone, and we're no longer together. I end up marrying someone else. But he got a job in the D.C. metro area. And so we moved to Maryland. And so I transferred to the University of Maryland. And my life kind of changed a little bit because, you know, there were people who did internships for the White House, right? So I was like, ooh, and I had been. And I had been. And I had been. And I was like, oh, and I have been. into the White House every year with junior ROTC. I went to the Pentagon. I went to the Twin Towers

every year. So 9-11 hit me different. So when I was in my master's program, that was the day 9-11 happened. And I was in my internship at the Baltimore Public Defender's Office. I was looking into going into mitigation specialists for people, you know, who committed crimes and, you know, they didn't get therapy and treatment and all of that and to help support them. And that, and that, And that day, Dr. Jody, I said I'm going into the military. So I was like, I could still serve, but I'm going to serve my country. I was pretty patriotic at that time. And so it took, so that's when I went to child welfare right when I graduated.

And that was the intensive unit working with child fatalities and serious injuries. And I remember, I don't know if you remember when Lee Malvo and they had all, you know, they were doing the sniper shootings. I was working for Montgomery County. And the day they captured him, they brought him to my office because I worked with the family police, you know, because you're familiar with this. So my life, it just took a crazy, crazy turn. And so I did that for a year. And then I got accepted into this residency program for the Air Force because at that time, for most services, you had to be independently, clinically licensed to get in.

Okay. And so they had only nine people in the country got selected, but they had a internship. And I got accepted. I was at Andrews Air Force Base, you know. And that that catapulted my life into a whole other stratosphere. So that's how, you know, but I used to campaign on campaigns when I was a little girl in my town, you know, for the mayor. And I always did service and humanity. I just always wanted to give back for some reason. And I think it's because of what I was going through, you know, as a child. And so that always stuck

with me. So getting a career where you could be of service, like that just, and you get awards and accolades and promotions. Like it all was in alignment. Lined up. Yes. My gosh. And then so then did the deployment start then? Or what did that look like for you? Because you became a captain. Yeah. So I did my time in the Air Force. So I served seven and a half years in the Air Force. And then that was at the height of the war on Afghanistan. And a lot of mental health providers were being deployed. So I transferred to the United States Public Health Service because a lot of us augmented, you know, the military service members who were over there. And by the way, I ended up transferring really because my brother got murdered in 2008 when I was in Hawaii, and I never got a chance to deal with that.

And my dad, I never wanted him because I had, you know, my dad had a son. And I was my brother. And I lived next door to him when I was, you know, at my grandmother's house directly every day. Okay, okay. And so I didn't want him to lose another child overseas. So that's one of the biggest reasons why I decided to. finished my career in the United States public health service because I could stay in the DMV area and I could be an hour away from him. So again, most of my decisions I made in my life was,

I don't know if it was just for me, but it was like, you know, I was the person and the family to, you know, really help us to stay. Everybody depended on. Yeah. Yeah. You were the anchor. And you, and you just, you were the anchor everywhere you went. You know, that was your role, hey. And then, then it starts to kind of unravel a little bit. Tell me, tell me what that looks like. So I went into United States Public Health Service did great things, got to work for the Surgeon General of the United States, got to work with the White House, you know, director of Addictions of Medicine. So I can spew off so many titles and awards and accolades. But it wasn't until 2020.

Okay. The height of COVID happened. So I was deployed to the Navajo Nation and Cayenta, Arizona. That's the most desolate area for the Navajo Nation. Now, when I went there, Dr. Jody, my eyes were open because I thought I was being of service. So I started to have this awakening almost when I was at that deployment because there were people who were in the United States who were living like they weren't in a third world country. They didn't have running water in their homes, right? We couldn't drink the water. I stayed on the reservation, right?

There's nothing there. And they sent me by myself to be the mental health lead for the incident command response team and to provide mental health services for two medical centers. And again, like it was a lot. It was very, it was dangerous, right, for me to be there by myself. It was a lot. And so, but I started to reflect when I started to hear the stories, right? And I was thinking to myself, am I a fraud?

Like, am I? How am I going to tell them about resiliency and keeping them? Like, I just thought, like, this is a joke. You sent this high-level ranking official here to do what? Like, but of course, I established a relationship. Anywhere I go, I'm going to have fun. I'm going to, you know, we did so many great things together outside of just my mental health role, donations, giving to people, all the things. And, but I was asking myself, you know, am I really serving? And the thing about it is the year before I got promoted to captive. And it was that day when I asked God, because that day when I got promoted, it was like,

oh, I got to call my nana. But my nana was no longer here. She passed in 2016. So I had an emptiness. I worked so hard. Like, think about it. Junior ROTC high school, now I'm one of the highest ranks. and I worked so hard, shouldn't I feel like good? Shouldn't I feel like I made it? Right? I helped

thousands of people. I've impacted millions of people's lives. And I don't- Why is this so empty? Why is this so empty? What's going on? Right. And I'm a mental health provider. So I should be able to treat myself too. Yeah. You would think no. So I asked God, then I was like, you know, what is your true calling for me? What's my purpose? And one thing that I say, and I say this to my clients, be careful what you ask for. Because you don't always want, you want to control what the answer is. Yeah. Yeah. When you start to really listen, you're like, nope, no, thank you next. I don't like that one. I don't like it. Like, yeah, give me door two. You know what I mean? The price is. Right. And so it was like, no, I was going to do 30 years. I was going to make admiral. Right. So I was like, I was telling God like we said. So when I had the near death. So when I came home from deployment, again, I was starting to feel this level of stress. I think I was having acute stress reaction. Sure. And it was during COVID and a lot of, you know, fatalities and deaths were happening. And I, and there was so much deaths where I was. That was. was one of the most reddest zones in the world probably because of the, you know, death per capita.

Yeah. And so I, what did I do? I was like, oh, I got this. I used to do a lot of races, bodybuilding. Let me just start working out. So I'm getting on my Peloton. I'm walking. Me and my husband are walking.

You know, he's retired military as well. I'm resilient. So one night I get up to go to the bathroom and I couldn't walk. Now, Dr. Jody, do you think I woke my husband up to say? babe, I can't walk. Can you help me? Nope, nope, I don't think you did it. I crawl to the bathroom. I crawl.

Now, I'm in excruciating pain. I can't walk. Oh, Malaysia. So I'm in the bathroom on the middle of the floor crying. My husband comes and gets me. He picks me up. Malaysia, what's going on? I'm like, I'm in extreme pain.

I can't walk. Do you think we went to the hospital? No, ma'am. No. We're going to start this out. We got that tiger ball. We got Advil. Okay, I did karate.

And it's as a teenager too. I got this. And I've done marathons and I've been in pain so I know what it is. So again, I kept trying to treat myself. And I did go to the hospital a couple times. It gave me morphine, send me home. And it wasn't really a hospital. It was like a medical center because the ambulance picked me up.

So when they did an x-ray, they didn't see anything. So one day I'm like, I knew I was starting to transition. And by the way, I didn't think about it at this time, but my grandmother came to me and my dream several weeks before I started having the pain. She came and told me it was time to go with her. And I'm like, cool. I had a sense of, like, I had a great life. This was before I had the near death experience. And I'm like, look, I've had a good life at this time, then it's my time. But really, she was calling, she was contacting me to warn me that something was ill and deathly wrong with me. And so, ultimately my husband's like, no, we're going to the military hospital this time.

So we go to Walter Reed. I mean, we go to Andrews. That's where I started. And they transferred me to Walter Reed Medical Center. So I'm there four days. Oh, yeah, I've taken care of everybody else. These people are going to take care of me. They take care of the President of the United States.

They're going to find it. So day four, now you have all these students in there because it's a training hospital as well. So you have residents. They all have their notebooks. They're taking notes. Nobody could figure out what's going on with me. me. So day four, the doctor comes in and says, Captain Heral, we can't find anything. We're sending you home today. And by the way, because you just got back from deployment, we're going to

send in the psychiatrist to do an evaluation on you. And you're like, no, bitch. You, no. Were you? What were you like? Well, at first, I was like, in my mind, I was like, am I imagining this? Like, is this a somatic symptom? Because I was like, am I having a psychotic break right now. And so I was like, well, you can euthanize me because you wouldn't be able to deal with this pain. I'm like, get the paperwork. I said, send in that psychiatrist because if this is a somatic symptom and I couldn't be a

patient. Again, you just told me nothing's wrong. So now I can't even be a patient. Again, I got to be who my grandmother's taught me to be because you're not even listening to what I'm saying to you. So, okay, let's go with this then. Let's do what we got to do. So the psychiatrist comes in.

He's talking to me like a peer and a colleague. Like we're looking at diagnoses. We're talking about my career. Like, is this serious? So they did a, they did a, um, fluoroscopy. They took this huge needle, put it all the way in my hip, took a sample. Soon as they got the results, maybe 20, 30 minutes. I don't know.

Dr. Jody, they run, they running in the room. They're running in there. We got to get in a search. Come on. And when I think about it now, it makes me emotional because my husband, like, I hadn't even, like, he didn't cry. You know what I mean? He's crying. What's wrong with my baby? Save her. Like, and I had sexist. I would have been gone that day or the next day. And that's why I couldn't allow them to send me on the side, the mental health side. Because I already know what this was going to be. I would have died right there in the hospital. For sure. For sure. Yeah. So again, you have women, right, who say, say, I got this. And then the minute you do ask for help, people look at you like you crazy. So I don't want to ask anymore. Right? I got this. I told you I got this. But I didn't have it and I wouldn't have had it. So they did three surgeries. I had two that week. I had to get a blood transfusion. Again, sepsis is for those of you who are not aware, it is like basically a

bacterial infection that shuts down all of your organs once it gets to the. them. Most people don't make it. I didn't know about it. You know, before. And what's the cause? Like, how do you, how do you, how do you, how do you, how do you, how do you, like a surgical infection? But like, how did you, do you, do you understand how you? Well, nobody, I don't think anyone knows what the, what the origin of mine is. I believe that I got some sort of infection from the water at the reservation because you couldn't drink that water. And I was taking, so normally when you travel, you take. You take. a quick shower and you get out. I was taking long baths every day and I cut myself on that leg. So that's when I think about it. I meditate. That was what came to me. But I don't know,

you know, specifically. But yeah, most people, people have had limbs removed, right? People had to have organs replaced. And I had to, so ultimately my body, because I was on such high level of meds and on antibiotics for 24-7 for like six to eight weeks. And I was in the hospital for like several months. My body was not used to that. And so it wasn't, so I got three surgeries. They did the final one in November. I was in the hospital in August. They did two then and then they did the final hit replacement in November. But it wasn't until so next year, again, I'm going to the doctors and it's during COVID. So it was pretty challenging. So in, January or February, I'm going to my hairdresser on my walker, you know, walking and trying to get out and do something.

And I'm 254 pounds because the, you know, the meds blew me up. I was on prednisone. Sure. So she says to me, Malaysia, your hair's falling out. And she has started doing wigs and units for people with cancer. So for her to say that, so I was like, oh, it's probably just stress. You know, I'm going through a lot, you know, and me risking giving up my career, right? I'm no longer medically fit.

Like, it was a lot going on. And I didn't want to lose. The only thing I had, this was what I had. This was my form of validation. And so I ended up going to the doctors. The doctors grilled me about my hair and braids when I was a little girl and wearing bonnets that might be taking my hair out. They didn't even acknowledge what the. medical stuff and all the meds that I was on. Like it was like it was your fault. So again,

again, I wanted to call a lot of people. Let me just say that. But I thought, oh, they're just going to say she's crazy, right? Yeah. And so, um, so it wasn't until April. I thought I was having a heart attack. I was having these shooting pain in my head. My left arm went numb. I was having chest pains. So it felt like lightning was hitting my head, right? In my face. Yeah. Yeah. So I go to the hospital and they do a chest x-ray. This is April. And they find all these nodules all over my chest. And you know how when you go to the doctors and they get quiet and nobody wants to say anything? Oh, God. Yeah. Terrible. So they say, so I'm like, well, you know, lay it on me. I'm strong. What can it be? So they said it could be cancer.

So they put me in the hospital for a week. And, you know, they're doing all these tests. They didn't come up with the answer. So that was Thursday I got out that Sunday. So my sister and her husband and my niece, they kept coming up. Every time I was having something going on, they kept coming up. So I remember Sunday after they left, my face drooped all the way down. No.

All the way down. So we went back. And my husband's in the lobby, like, I, You screaming. She said, if I have a pal, if I need palliative care, you need to let me know. I thought I was dying. And no one wanted to tell me. And how old were you at this point?

So I just turned 50. So that was 45. Wow. You're young. 46, yeah. Okay, okay. So they, it took them about six months to diagnose me. they diagnosed me with sarcoidosis.

And the day that I get diagnosed, they say, oh, we have this patient care coordinator. And she was a lady, you know, an African-American lady. And I'm thinking, oh, I'll be able to talk to her. Because I didn't feel like I could talk to any provider because, again, you always made me seem like I was crazy. Or you try. I had to be on the defensive. So I was like, oh, my goodness. You know, I said, I never heard of this.

You know, and I'm kind of nervous about it. you know, because it is like cancer. A lot of people have to get lung replacements, depending on where it is in your body. And so she goes, yes, you did. Bernie Mac died of it. That's the first thing she said to me. What?

Wow. I was like, look, if you want to know why veterans take their lives, let me give you a clue. Let me just give you a couple things. Okay? Right. Yeah. I was like, oh, I'm done with this.

this is over. Like, nobody feeding seeds of greatness or, you know, so at that time, I was forced to, again, pull myself out of those shadows, along with God's help, of course. Yes. But I started listening to The Power of Now again, right? I was listening to Eckertoll in one ear. And on the days that was so, so dark that I'm like, I don't know if I could do this. I'm listening to David Gagins and the other, okay?

Because he had two books that came out. can't hurt me. And so I was like, I know I can't do pushups and sit-ups, but I could do what I could, you know, mentally to get through this. And so I'm listening to podcasts. I joined a fasting community. I joined. So at that time, Clubhouse was huge.

So I started, you know, getting engaged in Clubhouse. And that's where I met some of the people who are now my colleagues for speaking engagements, for coaching, for retreats, for women. You know, I started meeting all these people. But again, I was behind the, you know, you can have your camera off. Yeah. So nobody got to see me. I got to pretend and, you know, psychocibernetics, that book by Dr. Maltz.

Like all these things, I was doing whatever I knew to do, meditation, fasting, all these things while taking meds. So, of course, I couldn't really fast when I ate when I had to take the meds. But if you're sleeping all day, you can fast. Right. So that's how I lost the weight. So again, I think a lot of us, to answer your question, a lot of women get to a place where we're no longer human. We don't identify with being human.

We are subhuman. It doesn't matter what it takes. I'm going to get it done at the expense of myself. Yes. Right? Because I was brought here for a reason. I was brought here to do something, not acknowledging our own. traumas, our own pain, and our own authenticity, right?

How many of us have done a job because your grandmother or your family said, you need to be a doctor, you need to be a lawyer, you need to do this, but you really had a compassion or a passion for doing something else. God gave you a certain gift for a reason. And they said, well, you can't make money being an artist. you can't make money being a speaker, whatever it is. Yeah, yeah. And so when you identify and you realize it, that's time to get clear on what it is.

Yeah. And often I'm finding, and I'm so interested in your thoughts around this, I mean, the intentions behind the people who came before us are usually good. The protection of I don't, like, you need to look after yourself. I, like, I struggle because. So, no, do not take this path. those things. You know, people ask me when I got a PhD, I wasn't married yet. And they were like, oh, that's cute. You're a doctor. Do you got a husband? And you know, like where we grew up or I grew

up, it was so much more effective if you could just get married than if you were well educated because what's going to serve you well is getting a husband. And I think, you know, we're just, we're one generation away from those very, very clear role expectations. And I can't imagine, you know, as a black woman being so, like what you've done in your career. and then getting to a point where like you push through sepsis and a number of other sort of things that should have killed the average bear. And you handled a lot of that on your own. And now coming out the other side of this, I mean, obviously a very supportive husband in this process. But as you sort of reflect on this, your calling now is to sort of serve women in this place of, you know, it's time to question the role expectations that we have before us.

it's time to get quiet and listen to that inner voice of sort of what can direct us. And I think it's a skill you can always learn. Is that true? Like many of us, you know, have to go through the fire before we kind of are shaken. Some of us almost killed into this moment of like, son of a bitch. What am I? What is going on here? Is this true?

Do you see this in a lot of women? It's so true. Yes. And I do see it with a lot of women. But here's the thing. I just went and saw Eckert Tolly two weekends ago. Nice. Nice. And he said something about basically we continue, we choose to suffer. And the minute we, so something has to happen. That's when we no longer suffer. Right? We're choosing to suffer. So we're choosing to do things over and over and over again the way we've always known them or in fear of, will I, Maslow's law hierarchy of needs, will I have food, clothing, and shelter, my family needs to eat, I need to eat. Right. And so you don't have the faith, right, to take on something that God has told you to do.

Yeah. Because it sounds asinine. It sounds crazy. And most people are going to say, oh, you're in menopause. You're having a midlife crisis or whatever word in terminology they put on it. So we're fearful. So what I would offer in which I say to everybody is don't tell everybody everything as you're getting it. Because you need to process it yourself, right?

When you're clear and you're practicing mindfulness and you're getting silent, you're getting away from social media. you know, you're going to get glimmers of visions. And they may look like, what? You want me to do what? You know? And so when that happens, again, just sit in it. We don't have to call our friends and family and sisters and brother. Because no one's going to understand it at that time and they're going to talk you out of it.

And by the way, you're trying to talk yourself out of it. So yes, a lot of people. And some people, you know, they keep going. They get the glimmer. and they're like, I know what I should do. Mm-mm. But I'm just going to be doing. I want a sign of your sign.

Is that a sign? I'm not sure. I need another signier sign. I want something more clear. And it's like smacking you in the face. And so what I'm hearing you say, and I've heard this a lot, you know, in this season three of this podcast, I'm having a lot of conversations with people who really reiterate this idea that the discipline of connection is what this next generation of humans is going to have to be aware of. because the noise is only getting turned up. And what we lose, you know, historically, I think we've been good at avoiding or numbing or doing all of those things with, you know, substances or working out or, you know, avoiding food, whatever that looks like. And now the universe is making it so easy to numb because we have a device that is readily available, keeping us disconnected from looking into the eyes of our partners, our best friends, having conversations, doing all those things. And it's mostly thwarting this capacity to be still. We used to have a day of rest built into our systems.

I mean, we grew up with this. This is not history, right? This is 15 years ago. And now, before we even pee, we're checking our phones. Before we strap to our watches, I got a watch on, a ring on that's measuring all the shit's happening right here for me. Anybody can get me at any moment. And the idea is that we're just not built for that. We lose touch with the best parts of ourselves, our spiritual components, our knowing, our authentic,

understanding of this world that is embedded in all of us. And what I hear you saying is that this is going to become a practice like no other. And what are some of the things you do you offer to your clients? What are some of those suggestions on how do we get into this quiet? Is it as simple as turning all the shit off every once in a while and just listening? Or like, where do you find your deepest connection? Well, for each woman, sometimes it's a little bit different depending on what they're going through. Like I had a client yesterday.

She was, you know, when I first met her, right, she didn't tell me everything. And hers was stacked up like mine. I was like, oh, you know. And so the biggest thing to start, right, is to try to get quiet because I hear a lot of people say, well, I can't, when I try to meditate, my mind won't shut down. I can't just... Yeah, I hate that. I know.

What do you mean? What do you mean think of nothing? When I think of nothing, I think of everything. Are you fucking getting me? No, I'm done. That's a dumb game. I'm out. Yeah.

So here's the thing. There is something that you do that when you do it, the world doesn't exist. So is it painting? Is it walking near the water? Is it... So it doesn't need to look like

you're on a Buddhist temple at the top of a mountain because I've been to those, right? When I did in the military. No, it's not that. All right. So mindfulness looks different from every single person. Now, eventually you will get to a point once you start to surrender and get your rhythm and the flow. You will be able to do that.

And you'll be able to do that. Like, I'm talking to you right now. I could go into a meditative state if I want to, right? But in the beginning, start where you are. We say this with our clients all the time. What do you do? I don't care if it's running. I don't care if it's in the gym, doing weights.

I don't care if it's planting. A lot of people garden. They're like, when I'm in a garden, I don't think about nothing else. Normally is something in connection with nature. I think that is the biggest manifestation of the divine is nature, right? Listening to the birds, listening. So do start there. Okay, take your shoes off and just go set out.

I mean, we might be in Canada in winter when you're listening to this. But like, if you, it doesn't matter, you'll be fine. We'll warm those feet up. But again, it's like, that's just the thing that I've thought about so much is that your earthing is a term that I never knew of. But like, when you sort of get outside or under the stars at night, since my father's died, I find a lot of solace in looking up at the sky at night. And it's like, I think, I think find your piece.

I really love that. Like, there's so many ideas about what you can do. you just got to do them, even if it's 30 seconds. Don't be all crazy. You don't need like a four-day retreat where you're just like bathing in trees, you know? Tree bathing is another fucking term I don't get. But the idea is I say this all the time around here. I'm the least woo-woo person.

Okay. So I remember as I got into the creativity of writing and, you know, being a speaker and all those things. You know, so many people in this community are like, no, we got to light incense and you've got to like burn shit and like meditate and stuff. I was like, yeah, fuck. That's weird. So however you name it that makes sense to you, just being still. That's right. Putting your feet on the ground just for a few minutes and just feel it.

If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't, but I promise me, well. Just feel it. Just notice that difference. And if you are allowing yourself to sink into that even for 30 seconds, you are changing the neural chemistry in your body. Right. You're doing magic that no words can suffice. It's like magical powers. Okay, so yes.

So try to get quiet. Start where you are. I love that. And even with the grounding that you talked about, there are, you know, electrons and, you know, charges that come through your body. The energy. You know, they talk about we started to get sick when they invented the sneakers because all the shoes, they prevent us from getting those, you know, charges and connection with the earth. Before we used to wear little jelly shoes and flip flops and all that kind of stuff. And so now we have gotten so disconnected with nature that I bet you if you just take a walk or you're near the water and listening to the waterfalls.

And you can also simulate that in your house as well. So if you can't for some reason get outside, especially if you live in a play, I used to live in North Dakota and you couldn't get outside. So you put on YouTube, you can put on anywhere you want to be and it will simulate that for you. Yeah, you can simulate it. Your body doesn't know the difference if you're there or not. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful. I love that. And again, you know, just sort of the uniqueness of this experience for us, whatever that looks like. You know, some people will really sink into prayer. Some people really sink into meditation. Sometimes it's music. Sometimes it's whatever. I think it is going to be a

discipline like no other in this next generation that I think we need to talk about, well, we needed to talk about it yesterday. Because, you know, I often talk about around here, you know, even if I were to take the big four, Amazon, Uber, Meta, Google, they own it. an $8.49 trillion dollar market share capitalization right now. So the intention is very critical when it comes to sort of financial gain to keep us disconnected, right? Oh yeah. With no conversation about the, you know, the emotional ramifications, right? And why should you? I mean, like, fuck it. If I was making that much money, I'd be like, you bet here, here's another device, which is, you know,

let's slam some glasses on now. And then we're going to like, glasses 24-7. Like I got to watch. So they're getting data. They're getting images. Here's the fun. thing, Dr. Jody. So I just saw something on social media, the news that said that, who was it? I think Zuckerberg. He. Mark. Yeah. He has some sort of monastery school on his compound or something. And the only reason why people found out about it is because it was holding up traffic. And it was a monastery school so you can't have any electronics and all that. They keep. And even, Steve Jobs. He didn't allow his children to have that. And then the people, the founder of McDonald's, same thing. They wouldn't allow their families to eat it. So just look at what they're doing.

It's crazy because they're, you know, capitalizing off of it, but they don't allow their families. You know, and I thought I heard him say something like children shouldn't be on social media and stuff like that. And I'm like, it's so TikTok and all this is so geared for children. 100%. And, you know, Jonathan Haid, I talk a lot about his work around here. He wrote The Anxious Generation in 24. And he talks a lot about, you know, it reminds me of like the horses out of the barn. So we've noticed so many of the benefits. We all have devices. We're all doing those things. And it's like, no, fuck, we thought this was good. And it. When smoking was developed, we thought that was good too. I mean, only the elite use it. It was very privileged experience. And the more money you had, the better you could, you know, the flavors you could find and all these kind of things. And we're like, oh, my. God, it's so cool, so cool, so. And then we're like, holy shit. Like, let's put it on a plane. This is how fancy it is. And then pretty soon we're like, fuck me. It's killing us. Yeah. And I feel like we're really in that state right now where, you know, the horse is out of the barn. The development has come so fast. And it's not all bad, unlike smoking. There is a lot of

goodness to connecting us. I mean, we're in two different countries. As a result of technological advances, we're doing this beautiful interview. And, you know, being able to have medical tests and can get us to places to understand how PTSD works in the brain, you know, with our veterans, to do all of those kind of things like technological advances are making many of these things possible. What they will play on mostly, though, is the fact that we are still wired for connection. And the greatest, the most healthiest among us are good at human connection. And it's the hardest thing we will ever do. So the discipline of staying connected to our own bodies in the stillness, in the silence, and staying connected to the people we love and we lead

is going to be the greatest challenge of this generation. What I love the most about it, though, is the bar is so fucking low that it's actually not hard. This is the best time to build a business. This is the best time to do inner work because it really sets you above so many other people who are just getting almost romanticized into the ease of TikTok and, you know, I mean, too, me too.

I mean, I fell to sleep last night watching fucking narcos and the greatest Colombian drug dealer of all time. And like, I am, I'm cheering for him. You know, I'm like, go, go. You've got it. Pablo. And like, it's like, you know, so we're very romanticized into that idea now.

And I get it because we really, the information overload just just leaves us wanting to numb, wanting to escape. And so the counteract to that is so much about, you know, your work, what you've talked about. You know, you have a new book coming out. I'm going to put all of that stuff in here. And it's just such an honor to sit in your presence, ma'am, you are just so brilliant. So brilliant. And one last thing, you know, what is on your heart the most these days that humans need to know, the people you work with, the people you've served? You know, summarize that for me.

What would you leave this amazing community with today? Let me think. I always have such different things for different platforms. Today I'm getting for my download is that the thing that you've been putting off is the very thing that will set you free. Because the more that we avoid, right, and fight and bang our heads up against the wall is because you're not doing that one thing that you should do. And you think, oh, when my children goes to school, when they graduate, when my husband retires, whatever it is, or my spouse, or my mate, whatever. And you think you have tomorrow. And tomorrow is not promised to anyone.

So if there's been something that's been lingering in your spirit, in your mind, and it keeps coming back. I would say to do one thing to move forward and act on that. Wow. Okay. Humans. Listen, how lucky were we? Captain Malaysia, Heral. You are a dream.

Thank you so much for your time, for your brilliance. I know this community is going to be better for it. And to the rest of you, my friends, thank you. Lean into each other, lean on each other. We were never meant to do any of this. I'm so glad you're here. Drop your shoulders, deep breath, and I can't wait to meet you right back here next time. You know, the more we do this, people ask, why do you have to do the acknowledgement and every episode? I've got to tell you, I've never been more grateful for

being able to raise my babies on a land where so much sacrifice was made. And I think what's really critical in this process is that the ask is just that we don't forget. So the importance of saying these words at the beginning of every episode will always be of utmost importance to me and this team. So everything that we created here today for you happened on Treaty 7 land, which is now known as the center part of the province of Alberta. It is home of the Blackfoot Confederacy, which is made up of the Sikika, the Kainai, the Pekini, the Titina First Nation, the Stony-Nakota First Nation, and the Métis Nation Region 3. Our job, our job as humans, is to simply acknowledge each other. That's how we do better, be better, and stay connected to the good. The Unlonelly podcast is produced by three incredible humans,

Brian Seaver, Taylor McGilvery, and Jeremy Saunders, all of Snack Lab productions. Our executive producer, my favorite human on this planet, is Marty Pillar. Soundtracks were created by Donovan Morgan, Unloney Branded Artwork created by Elliot Cuss. Our big PR shooters are Desvinoe and Barry Cohen. Our digital marketing manager is the amazing, Shana Haddon. Our 007 secret agent from the Talent Bureau is Jeff Lowness. And emotional support is provided by Asher Grant, Evan Grant, and Olivia Grant.

Go live! I am a registered clinical psychologist in Alberta, Canada. The content created and produced in this show is not intended as specific therapeutic advice. The intention of this podcast is to provide information, resources, education, and the one thing I think we all need the most, a safe place to land in this lonely world. We're all so glad you're here.