Unseen - The Secret Lives of American Witch Killers: From Hippies to Homicide | The Case of Jenn Carson | UNSEEN

Episode Date: February 10, 2025

“Are the hurt people dead?” In 1979, 4 year old Jennifer Carson comes face to face with one of the most bizarre and deranged serial killers to have ever lived: none other than her new psychic step-mother, Susan Carson. Susan, along with Jenn’s father Michael Bear Carson, will embark on a years-long religious mission to hunt down and kill anyone they deem a witch, and Jenn is their first target. Little do the infamous San Francisco Witch Killers know that Jenn will escape the clutches of their evil cult and lead the way to justice for her and the rest of their victims. Directed, written & edited by Alexandre Gendron Research & script revision by Tiffany Loxton Produced by Alexandra Salois & Salim Sader Voiceover by William Akana Sources I Lived with a Killer: The San Francisco Witch Killers (Breakthrough Entertainment) Snapped: Killer Couples: Susan & Michael Carson (Jupiter Entertainment) The Killer In My Family: James Michael 'Bear' Carson (Woodcut Media) Deadly Women: Hunting Humans (Beyond International) This Is Life With Lisa Ling: Children of Killers (Part2 Pictures) Wicked Attraction: The Two Bears (M2 Pictures) The Conversation: My Dad Was a Serial Killer (BBC) Facing Evil: Dr. Jenn Carson (iHeartPodcasts/Tenderfoot TV) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On a warm evening in Phoenix, Arizona, a little girl named Jen is being tucked into bed by her father, 24-year-old James Carson. All seemed well for young Jen. Her life had been nothing but peaceful and happy up to that point. However, that night, as her father began telling her a bedtime story, things took a disturbing turn. When I was about three years old,

he started telling really bizarre stories. There were two words that I did not know. There was a B word that I now know. know is bludgeon. And there is a D word. I didn't know. It was decapitated. They were dubbed the San Francisco witch killers because they thought their victims were witches. Like a normal family as far as we knew. All of the killings appeared ritualistic involving black magic and were particularly gruesome. The victims, at least 14 people. The killing spree generating a flurry of headlines, but few leads. Why does this case remain unsolved after all this time? Did you know that

The killers had kids. Jennifer is five years old. This is a horrifying space for any child. She was saying, you can fool your father, but I know you're the devil, and I'm going to get this demon out of you. Though her parents claimed she was the devil, marking her for death, Jen survived and is now piecing together the mystery, hoping to finally stop the witch killers. I had to step up to the plate. I'm going to confront him. She's looking for the truth.

She's looking for answers. He hurt people, and he's going to jail. My daddy doesn't exist anymore. There's only the monster that kills people and laughs about it. June 12, 1982, a rescue team is sent to search for a group of hikers who disappeared in the woods near Alder Point, California. But before reaching their destination, they came face to face with two strange figures in the forest. They were looking for a missing hiker.

And all of a sudden, these two crazy-looking individuals dressed in rags with ratty hair, start running around in different directions. screaming. Then one of the individuals in the rescue crew noticed that the weirdos had dropped a backpack. The rescue team couldn't understand why the pair suddenly fled. However, it all became terrifyingly clear when they opened the backpack they'd left behind. There was a gun, fake IDs, and this manifesto called a cry for war. It calls for nuclear war, targeted bombings, political assassination. There was detailed plans to kill witches, and they had a list of the witches. At the bottom of the list, consisting mostly of celebrities and public figures, and names stood out from the rest, Ronald Wilson Reagan.

Since the witch killers were already suspected of being serial killers, and their next target was the president of the United States, the Secret Service got involved. They discovered that one of their main suspects, Michael Bear, left behind his young daughter and ex-wife before the killings began. So in 1982, men in black literally showed up at our door. And I overheard some of it. I knew that daddy was in trouble. Knowing that the information would soon be relayed to the public, Jen's mother took it upon herself to deliver the devastating news to her young daughter. I was just eight turning nine at the time.

And she said, I told you that your daddy was really sick. And she said, unfortunately, he got much worse. And he hurt people. I immediately asked, are the hurt people dead? And she said yes. Young Jen struggled to process her mother's words. She had so many fond memories of her father from before the divorce. However, she couldn't ignore that everything took a turn for the worse

after her dad married a strange woman named Suzanne Barnes. When I think about my relationship with my father, I very much see it as before Susan and after Susan. This is Euphoria Calvin Klein, the new Elixir Collector. featuring three perfume intense scents, inspired by a unique orchid accord, paired with vanilla, each with its own distinct attitude, each with its own universe, bold elixir, sensual, woody, addictive, magnetic elixir, sweet and romantic like a lingering touch, solar elixir, a radiant expression of joy, ultra-concentrated for amplified impact and lasting power.

Find your euphoria. Discover the euphoria elixir collection by Calvin Klein. Who was Susan? Back in the 60s, Suzanne Barnes, the daughter of a newspaper executive, lived the life of a wealthy socialite until she grew tired of her idyllic situation and began a double life. Suzanne lived a privileged life. Her husband was rich. She would be what you would call in a current term a puger. She said she made love with 150 of her son's classmates, just going through them one after another.

At first, she kept her interest in underage boys a secret. But when she began taking psychedelic drugs with her many teenage lovers, Suzanne's history of mental illness resurfaced. The first time she took LSD, she woke up in the morning and the house was painted with triangles. Suzanne was having visual hallucinations. This is a very, very serious symptom of schizophrenia. The combination of mind-altering drugs and untreated mental illness proved to be a destructive mix, leading her husband to eventually discover her secret. He directly filed for divorce and gained custody of their two children. But Suzanne didn't care.

She knew she wouldn't stay single for long. One night my father goes to a party. It was at the home of a wealthy divorcee. And so my father met this woman that was, you know, 10 years his senior. She said from now on you'll be known as Michael. She then stated that she was psychic. She could see the past and the future, and that she saw that they were lovers in a past life. My father had always been very interested in very radical religious beliefs,

and those interests kind of became more and more extreme. It was like dropping through the rabbit hole. The two immediately married and spent the entirety of Suzanne's life savings on hallucinogenic drugs. They then moved to California and turned their radical religious beliefs into a half-baked cult. Their first disciple was a 23-year-old woman named Karen Barnes. an up-and-coming actress from Georgia, who had recently moved to Hollywood in the hopes of making it on the big screen.

She was kind of interested in that, you know, kind of eclectic scene, and she was very much a bohemian girl. When Suzanne and Michael came along and offered her their type of cult, she was fascinated by it. From the outside, Michael and Suzanne's cult looked like any other hippie rambling of the era,

but at its core reigned a dark idea. The couple was convinced that the world was actually ruled by witches. They believe that Suzanne, as the leader of the cult and their prophet, had the power to identify such witches and that Michael, as her divine instrument, had to kill them. Suzanne would have these visions, and she thought she was a witch. She thought she was going crazy. Michael said, no, dear, you're not having delusions. You're a prophet. He was under her spell. He was at her command to kill whenever she ordered him. As a young adult who just arrived in California, Karen Barnes was unlikely to know the extent of their delusions.

Living with people who are mentally ill and taking hallucinogenics is probably not the safest decision a person can make. They're probably a little bit paranoid. They think the world is dangerous, and with their grandiose ideas, it was up to them to clean up the world. As it turns out, things escalated quickly for Karen. When Michael told Suzanne that he intended to take the 23-year-old as his second wife, she convinced him otherwise with deadly consequences. The trouble started when Michael became very

attracted to this young disciple of theirs. Suzanne saw this as a threat and she became incredibly jealous. Suzanne said we have to kill the witch. Michael you have to kill Kara. Immediately Michael grabbed a knife and a frying pan from the kitchen. At his prophet's command he attacked Karen while she was sleeping, stabbing. and bludgeoning her face until she stopped moving. No one should go through what she went through. She was a beautiful, delightful, 23-year-old girl. Following Karen Barnes' murder,

the witch killers ran away north to hide on an illegal farm near the small town of Alder Point. In 1982, Michael and Susan had been involved in an illegal marijuana farm in the northern part of California. Susan is cultivating the marijuana and my father is working security. Months into their stay at the farm, a man named Clark Stevens joined the workforce. Clark was an outspoken and assertive surfer from Southern California, who wasn't afraid to stand up to Suzanne and Michael. It starts out as a difference of opinion about how to properly manicure plants, but it quickly escalates.

Susan feels Stevens is disrespecting her. And Suzanne and Michael's invented religion, disrespecting the prophet. is enough to label you a witch, a title carrying a death sentence. Some sort of argument occurred, and she realized that Clark Stevens was a witch, and he had to be killed. So she ordered Michael to kill him. Michael feared witchcraft. He saw witchcraft everywhere. Without hesitation, Michael shot Clark Stevens in the head. He then proceeded to drench his body and gasoline, set it on fire,

and buried what remained of him under the farm's manure supply. Some time later, there were... some campers in the woods who their dog appeared to be playing with an object and tragically the dog was playing with the head of of Clark Stevens. The witch killers kept working on the farm for a few days as if nothing had happened since they were operating under false names they knew the police couldn't locate them even after finding the body. When the police searched for suspects under the named Susan and Michael, they came up empty because that was a false name. But all of this changed after the rescue team discovered the Witch Killer's manifesto.

Although they had no proof, the police and the Secret Service were finally starting to put the puzzle together. The murders of Karen Barnes, Clark Stevens, and 11 other individuals did not only fit the MO of Suzanne and Michael, the manifesto itself mentioned some of the victims by name. Fearing for her daughter's life, Jen's mother took her into hiding and severed all contact with Michael and Suzanne. As Jen packed up, she reminisced about the time she had to live with her father and Suzanne, following her parents' divorce.

The first time I recall going to Susan's house, it was absolutely terrifying. So we got to the house and it was night. They opened the door and there was a bunch of potted trees. In my mind, it looks similar to the forest from the Wizard of Oz. And so here I am a young child and I'm walking into this dark, like, haunted forest with a woman who, to me, look like a Disney villain. Alone in Suzanne's house, young Jen is left to fend for herself while her supposed caretakers are lost in a drug-fueled fantasy world. She's making strange concoctions of food with barley and marijuana and LSD. and I remember attempting to find food because they were passed out naked and I remember attempting

to escape from the home, picking up a corded telephone. I dialed zero and saying to the telephone operator, I want mommy. With her father under the influence of Suzanne's hallucinogenic food, there wasn't anyone to protect the little girl from her sadistic stepmother. She was convinced Jen was either a witch or a demon and abused her both physically and mentally in an attempt to, as she put it, exercise her. She did horrifically abuse me. I have had lifelong flashes of her dunking me underwater, and there was an incident where she scratched open my back, and there were five nail marks that looked like a

werewolf had come at me. But more frightening to me than the injury was what she was saying. You know, you can fool your father, but I know you're the devil, and I'm going to get this demon out of you. When Jen's mother discovered how her daughter was being mistreated, she disregarded the court order that kept Jen with her father and took her away. For three years, they stayed hidden. But with the return of the witch killers to Los Angeles, Jen's mother knew that trouble would follow. At this point, she was absolutely convinced that they would kidnap me. They called my mom and they said, we're picking up Jenny. And they said, we're going to be there in an hour.

unaware that Secret Service agents are hot on their trail, the witch killers hit the road to return to the city, less than 30 miles from where Jen and her mother were hiding. Hitchhiking along the way, they were picked up by a friendly man named John Hellyer. They were in a truck where there was just the single bucket seat. Two people ride comfortably in a pickup truck, but three, it's tight. And according to Michael and Susan, John's leg was touching Susan's leg. And the witch killer's religion, if insulting the prophet gets you a death sentence,

touching her might as well end up in public execution. And she decides that Hillier is a witch and that he needs to die. Michael instantly grabbed his gun and aimed it at John. But for the first time, the person they marked for death had a chance to fight back. The truck came to a stop, and witnesses observed a scuffle between Michael Carson and John Heliard eventually Michael Carson gained control of a pistol. Hillier grabs the gun and now they're fighting over the pistol Suzanne screaming kill him kill him kill him after struggling for the gun for over 10 minutes John seemed to get the upper hand on Michael but Suzanne produced a knife and started violently

stabbing him bleeding and in pain the 30-year-old let go of the gun long enough for Michael to push him back he then shot John in the head twice while Suzanne held him to his knees surrounded by dozens of terrified onlookers gasping for air and covered in blood, the witch killers immediately escaped the scene. Michael and Susan get back into the truck and they drive off. The police eventually spot their truck. There's a high-speed chase. It seals their fate, basically.

There's no question that they are traveling murderers. After crashing into a ditch and exchanging gunfire with the police, the couple attempted to run away on foot. Police tracked them up to a river where Suzanne and Michael were finally arrested. Detective Frank Falzone already suspected the crazed hippies of the murder. of Karen Barnes and Clark Stevens, but at this time he had no idea what their true identities were. My partner and I immediately went to Sonoma County to interview the Carson's. Susan says, no way, you want a statement from us?

We want the big city news to be here. We want to be filmed and we wanted in the newspaper. I said, I can arrange that. They wanted the world to know. know their insane ludicrous religion, their beliefs, they thought they could end up with a flock of disciples and that she could be the right hand of God. Before the trial even began, the witch-killer is requested that the police hold a massive press conference. In exchange for national television coverage, they agreed to divulge two more

of their victims, Karen Barnes and Clark Stevens. When the press conference aired, Jen learned more than she was prepared to handle at nine years old. Speaking the truth, so yes. Evil doesn't create. Good is creative and evil is like a parasite or a leech that it can't create, but it can only copy. That's why powerful evil people are always attracted to Suzanne. I know that voice, but those things he's saying are just so bizarre and disturbing. With the trial being on everyone's lips, it was hard for young Jen to ignore what was happening.

She learned that, although the number of victims was estimated to be over 14, the court chose to only press charges on the three murders they both admitted to. During the hearings, the witch killers put mystics, fortune tellers, and spiritual healers on the bench, giving the procedure a strange aura of new age quackery. The Carson's ramble and rant about all sorts of things from 1984 and George Orwell to Ronald Reagan being the devil, to why witches need to be killed. In their defense, they were stating that they only became violent and self-defense because they had been attacked psychically by these individuals.

Suzanne got up and screamed, What is my crime? To be beautiful, to be an artist, it was a zoo. But the veil of mysticism was quickly lifted once the coroner entered the courtroom, from the pictures of Karen Barnes' face to the terrifying testimonies of the dozens of people who witnessed John Hellyer's murder, the entire state of California was left speechless.

The couple labeled the San Francisco witch killers, Michael Bear Carson, and his second wife, Susan, smiling as the camera roll. Daughter Jen calls him evil. They were later convicted of three murders and sentenced to 75 years to life in prison. Nine-year-old Jen felt betrayed and overwhelmed, suddenly realizing the danger she'd been in during the past few years. When I realized that the hands that changed my diapers killed these people, I thought if Daddy could kill, anyone could kill. I became very frightened. I started sleeping with knives and scissors under my pillow. With the witch killers finally behind bars, Jen's mother turned the page in relief, but her young daughter still had a major concern.

If her father could do such terrible things, what might she be capable of? I went into a really, really severe depression. It completely changed who I was, how I thought about myself, that eventually I would hurt someone, maybe I would kill someone. I remember thinking I have monster DNA. And you still loved him. And I still loved him. But Jen's unconditional love slowly faded away,

especially after her father started sending her disturbing letters from jail. That kind of freaked me out. I know that the hand that's writing these letters had legend and decapitated people. It was just so disturbing to me. Believing his evil had taken hold of her, leaving her broken and helpless. She felt forced to play along when others around her lied about her past. It was so vital for me to keep this the secret. I had a long-term boyfriend who took me home to meet his parents on Thanksgiving.

And as we're walking up to their door, he says, I hope you don't mind. I told them that your father died in a car accident. Even as an adult, depression and chronic nightmares continued to plague Jen's personal and professional life. After almost falling asleep in the middle of a class she was teaching, she finally had enough and decided to take back control of her life. I can't do this anymore.

I have to do something. I made the decision to go see him in person. Visualizing her encounter with Michael as a scene from a movie, Jen thought she would be protected behind glass and talking to her father through a mounted receiver. Little did she know, none of this would happen as she had imagined. And so the sliding door opened and I'm in this. open room, there's no glass, there's no receivers, and my father is hugging me. I'm just shocked and I'm stunned and I'm, I just am just frozen like a statue. For over three

agonizing hours, Michael rambled about his obsession with witches. At this point, the witch killer had been incarcerated for almost 15 years, and Jen suddenly realized that, for her father, it was almost as if not a day had passed. She eventually stopped him dead in his tracks and asked him about the murders. She's looking for the truth. She's looking for answers. She's looking for something that will enable her to close that chapter in her life. Some explanation, some remorse, something, some truth.

He doesn't give this to her. On the contrary, Jen finally realized that the answers had been within her all along. She might have known James Carson her whole life. But now, for the first time, she met Michael Bear, the witch killer. She could stand up to him if she chose to. He no longer had passed. power over her. I think what she's recognized as she's got older and integrated those experiences is that the dad that she remembers as a child actually never really existed. You know, that's Michael

Bear Carson and he is a pathetic creature and he's like a rat in a cage. She's going to die in that prison. Jen was finally free of her father's influence. Or so she thought, due to prison system reforms, Michael and Suzanne's sentence of 75 years to life was overturned. Instead, from 2014 onward, the witch killers could be eligible for parole every five years. You absolutely can't have rehabilitation when there is absolutely no remorse. And so I chose to pursue fighting his parole. Excema is unpredictable. But you can flare less with ebbglis.

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or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to Epglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Ebbglis. Before starting Ebbglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Ask your doctor about Ebbglis and visit ebbgis.com or call 1800 LilyRX or 1-800 545-9779. Jen's newfound freedom was short-lived. With Michael and Suzanne up for parole, she now faced a new battle, keeping them behind bars. Tomorrow, Michael Carson will have a parole hearing. Michael Carson's daughter, lives in Riverside. She will speak out against his release. In fact, she told me he's a predator

who will kill again. Jen was shocked to learn she had been the only person asked to testify at the hearing, determined to not only stop her father, but also to ensure that the victims were properly represented. She sought out the families of John Hellyer, Clark Stevens, and Karen Barnes. Why do you want to meet the family members of the people your father killed? I found out that the Pearl Board had not notified the Hillier family, nor had made any attempt to find them. And so that's when I sent them a message because they were right to know. And of course, I wanted to tell you, I'm so sorry.

You lost your brother, and they lost him so violently and that you don't have him here with you. Thank you for that. Appreciate that. Jen spent years hoping that she could undo all of the horrors her father brought into the world. She thought this was her chance, but each of the family members, of her father's victims told her the same thing. It wasn't your fault. In the past, I was trying to atone for my father's crimes.

And now I know I cannot bring back his victims. I can't pay this debt. It's not my dead. I remain the daughter of a serial killer, but I no longer believe I'm the bad seed. I no longer hide. I no longer keep it a secret. There is a almost contentment or peace

that I found that I can find something good that comes from this horrific experience. I began a petition campaign and a media campaign against their parole. You know, Karen Barnes family, Clark Stevens family, John Hellyer's family, these are incredibly good kind people. Together, the Hellyers, Stevens, and Barnes testified at the parole hearing, spearheaded by Jen's own account of her father's horrific crimes. And, against all odds, they finally won. Jen will never again exist in her father's shadow.

She is free now, no longer burdened with the guilt of a violent past that was never hers to carry. Today, Jen uses her own experience to shine a light on mental illness and trauma. She's now a doctor of social work specializing in helping children of violent criminals. No matter your background and what might have happened to you, she is convinced there is always a way out of the dark. complex grief, depression, school failure, substance abuse. And you know what? I'm really open. I am mentally ill.

I have a mental illness, everybody. Is that scaring you? It shouldn't. When we get to a place where we can talk about that, then we can move forward because, you know what, I am not ashamed of being mentally ill. I didn't put that stigma on me. Somebody else put that stigma on me. It isn't easy, but if you seek help and you're gentle with you.

yourself, it gets better. And so I feel very optimistic about being able to use my experience in some way to help others.