Unzipping Taboos: Candid Conversations about Sex - Angry, Determined, and Unapologetic: Pushing Forward in Uncertain Times

Episode Date: February 5, 2025

In this episode, we get real about the frustration, determination, and unwavering commitment it takes to keep pushing forward in a world that often tries to silence necessary conversations. From the political attacks on marginalized communities to the spread of misinformation, we explore the challenges of staying informed, the power of community, and the importance of resisting fear. We discuss why self-care isn’t just personal but political, how to support those most affected, and why we refuse to back down. Tune in for an unfiltered, passionate conversation about fighting for truth, justice, and the right to speak freely. With the current political climate threatening access to accurate information and open discussions, we dive into how fear is used as a tool of control—and why it’s crucial to push back. We also emphasize the need for collective resilience, allyship, and finding strength in numbers, even if it’s just one trusted person. This episode is a reminder that questioning sources, seeking diverse perspectives, and holding space for difficult conversations are acts of resistance.  This episode serves as a call to action—because when we fight for truth, justice, and freedom of speech, we all rise together. What you can do: Share the podcast with others and on social media to help spread the word. Those with podcast promotion knowledge, consider lending a hand to amplify our reach. Prioritize self-care while continuing activism, recognizing the balance is vital for long-term resilience. Find your community—whether online or offline—to provide support and solidarity during these trying times. Use your power and privilege to support targeted communities through actions, not just words. Be critical of information sources and make a conscious effort to seek out diverse, factual perspectives. Diversify your social media feeds to include voices from communities outside your own. Contact your elected representatives and speak up about the issues that matter. Take the initiative to educate yourselves on how to best support marginalized communities. Older listeners, keep engaging with activism and stay informed about current issues to continue being a force for change. Send questions or topic suggestions to us to help shape future episodes and contribute to ongoing conversations. If you have a story, thoughts and/or a topic or question for Dr. Sue and Charlie please share your ideas here:  ⁠Show suggestions If you want to ask Dr Sue a sex question for the weekly Q&A you can submit it here: Ask a question

Hey everyone, welcome to Unzipping Taboos, candid conversations about sex with Dr. Sue and Charlie. we're here to dive into the topics of sex and sexuality that you might be curious about but don't always feel comfortable talking about or safe talking about no judgment just open honest conversation so let's sit down and get candid today uh we are recording this what two weeks in to the new administration of 2025 president 47 and so we're just kind of Dr. Sue and I are going to process together and with you. So, so we hope you stick with us. I think it'll be helpful. And I think you'll want to share this with other people. But before we get

into that, Hey, Dr. Sue. Hey, Charlie. Would you like to give our listeners a little bit about your background before we process? Sure. I'm going to do a little bit more in depth than I usually do if that's okay absolutely because i want people to understand the breadth of what sexuality education is i promise you it won't be like you won't be like knocking on the clock for me like just a little bit longer than i normally do so um i have a phd in human sexuality and like many people who get a phd i went into the academia track and i have been working in academia for longer than my current students have been alive as they reminded me last week um but how kind of them I know I kind of brought it on myself but but for years and years and years

but at the same time I also do a lot of work in the community um I have worked with uh health care professionals I have worked with seniors I have worked with youth I have worked with youth and their parents I have worked with folks middle age because I I want to I want us to keep in mind that we're talking about sex education which is primarily what I do that this is a lifespan thing it is it is not it's not just what most people think about for formal k-12 education is is a should be a lifelong oh sorry that's my accent you can tell i'm tired or angry but but because education is a lifelong process i want to talk about that and also something i don't think i've ever mentioned on here i have worked before as an education doing education

outreach out of reproductive health clinics so i do have some experience working clinics um which i don't actually think i've mentioned in the past yeah maybe alluded but not specifically called out so i've worked at a couple of reproductive health clinics in my time as an educator and uh doing outreach into the community i've worked with literally anyone who was like come talk to our people about sex um and then i've also worked in academia but but i do want to part of what i know or i think is going to come up today is some of the executive orders that are targeting sex education in schools. And I need us to remember that sex education is a lifelong process. So I just wanted to kind of remind folks of that. It's not K through 12. It's not college.

It's something you need to learn and learn new throughout your lifespan. But I'm sure we're going to get more into some of this. But before we do, I'm going to turn it over to Charlie. And I have this whole, I keep joking, we need to kind of update what we're saying. For those of you who've been with us for a while. Thank you. But you also noticed that we kind of have a little bit of a little bit of powder that we do that's the same. And so I'm going to do some of that, but expound. So be be ready for the expound. I consent. Thank you. For those of you who don't know, or for those of you who are hearing again, Charlie is my curious co host who is always ready to explore the ins and outs of sex relationships and all those taboo topics that we really talk

about and she's someone who is truly passionate about trying to do the right thing by people and I think it's that care for humanity that is driving us both a little nuts right now but but sorry I expounded um but you should talk about yourself so well now now I gotta stop cutting the onion oh give me a minute sorry i day at the gym thanks dr sue you're welcome hey i did um so uh i am charlie hi um you really caught me off guard i mean it was beautiful and i appreciate it um it made it made me feel very seen so thank you um so dr sue and i have been friends for many many years and we talk about all sorts of things and we found a kinship in our kind of fuck you to the ways that society and institutions try to put people who are not, and I'm going

to be frank, cis white men, the patriarchy, the way that they try to put people or force people into those ways of thinking and highlighting them as less than if they aren't white men. So we found a kinship there and challenging those notions and, um, sometimes in unison throwing up the finger, um, and then just general curiosity about each other and our opinions and how we got here and our life experiences. Um, and I am someone who has a variety of perspectives by virtue of how I grew up, my family background and that really informed my my development of my empathy and my sense of justice and my sense of just because I'm a girl or a woman doesn't mean I can't do anything

and I was really lucky in having parents who who echoed that I know I've given some some stories about some of that a couple of times. Yeah, but I but they really do deserve credit. Because when I would say I want to do something that wasn't traditionally for women, they never said you won't be able to or you cannot because you are it they said, Okay, well, let's get you in this space so that you can figure one figure out if you want to. And so all that to say, I have enjoyed challenging taboos and expectations of society and institutions. And that's where we find ourselves here. That's a little bit of a different intro for myself. So here we are. Yeah. And there's probably going to be a few asks from us as we go, because I think we need to give

each other homework. And part of it is be gentle with yourself right now. So don't be surprised if There are a few more. I mean, we always give you homework or we almost always give you homework, but we may be doing different kinds of asks of people during this. I usually now throw my students under the bus and say that this this podcast came to be. One of the reasons was that my students were kind of challenging when I would challenge what they would listen to. They would come back at me and be like, it's not like you're saying anything publicly outside of here. And where's your podcast? And so I like to throw them under the bus and I will do that again this time. and that may have been the impetus for me really thinking about it and then asking Charlie to do it with me but I think that as we're growing and and we do want to thank those of you who've been

listening we have some folks who have been listening since day one yes thank you yes and and you know who you are and some of you I know very well are probably driving to work as you're listening to this so we see you and we hear you um and appreciate you and appreciate you so we appreciate everyone listening yeah I was gonna say for anyone who's joining us on your first one we don't we don't we don't we want people to kind of find us as they find us but one of the things that we're realizing now is that we need to get broader and we need to get bigger because we need to make sure voices are being amplified that sound like us that sounds obnoxious but we want our voices to start being more amplified so the first ask we're going to do is to have you ask you to share

this with someone whether it's this episode or i think our most popular one to date is still body count. Which I think we kind of called out. We were like, when we were planning our first several episodes, especially by virtue of what you published on Hey Dr. Sue, that always stays at the top. Yeah. Yeah. So we're going to ask you if you like what you hear or you think that people would benefit from it. We're going to do a really big ask right now and ask you to share this. Share it on your social media if you feel comfortable. Share it with the people that you think might get something out of it and if you know anything about how to promote a podcast because i have a full-time job charlie has a full-time job i have several side jobs we're

we're busy humans um so we're gonna we're gonna lean and so if anyone out there listening in podcast world knows anything about how to amplify a podcast i think we're ready to i think we're kind of taking this as a it's time to start growing because we want to make sure our voices are getting out there. So that's our first gasp. So yeah, it's really a call to action. So if, if I may, Dr. Sue, I'm going to talk about how we got to today's topic. Yes. And we Dr. Sue and I meet several times a week to to record an episode and talk about what we want our future episodes to be do a little bit of planning etc and um on our most recent meeting before today we were both it was at the end of week one of president 47 um and we were both processing a lot

because as as project 2025 outlined a blitzkrieg of executive orders on day one as he campaigned on started happening. Not to mention the general sense of anxiety, because we knew January 20th was coming and that he was going to be sworn in and then all of these things. So we were both processing a lot. And we had a discussion on do we keep doing this podcast? Because we have right now. Right now, we have a small audience that we 100% appreciate. It's fun to see those numbers of the episodes that you listen to and all of those things. So I don't want to minimize that. But what we talked about is, okay, well, right now we're small, but right now is more important than ever to keep going. Because by virtue of the executive orders that have been signed to date,

uh we are on January 27th right now right no not 27th I can't add I'm looking at my calendar and I already moved it to February we're almost January 30th yeah and January feels like it's taken forever feels like feels like a whole year already um so it became apparent or it was apparent that our voices whoever we reach at whatever point we reach them we are now a source of factual information um or ways to find that kind of information and that that our voices are important and that if if anything right now if we were to stop that would be giving in and we talked for a while about it yep yep yeah um and we we we uh i don't know about you i repeated some of my concerns and my thoughts to some of our of my friends um who very kindly

threatened me and said you can't stop you have a responsibility now more than ever which feels a little weighty but also is not nearly what other folks are going through i mean people whose family members are literally disappearing and being deported and um it's hard to think that this is important in the grand scheme of things but also important in the grand scheme of things um so we did yeah we had a real like is this something we want to continue doing do we feel safe um i mean i i kind of want to talk about the safety issue but i kind of don't we don't normally we have an idea of where we're going or it just winds up in the in the archive footage we know you can't see video um but there's video uh so so we we we often have a better plan of what

we want to say. And I think this time we're going into it a little raw because it is supposed to be candid. And I know a lot of us out there are feeling overwhelmed. And that was the point of it all. And people will tell you that, that that kind of mass, I know they're using term blitzkrieg, but like that mass, like disruption of your life so quickly, that many executive orders feeling, feeling like your entire world has been shook up. That was the point of it. so if you're feeling that way and we felt it too we we want you to know that it's okay to to take a break and it's okay to take a breath um because you can't take the next steps if you can't breathe and i know that sounds really basic um i want anyone out there who's non-binary to know

that you exist i don't care if it's shit what an executive order say you exist and we see you and anything we can do to support you. For me as an educator, one of the most terrifying things was the loss of information. It's the loss of information. So one of the things I like to do to scare the crap out of my students is because my students come from all over the country is I will oftentimes when we do data, whether it's death by cancer or death by suicide or STI rates, HIV I always tailor it to the state they're from just to give them like a this is you know this is where contextual information yeah all the HIV data is gone from the CDC so for those of us who relied on on government sites and for years I taught that you can count on the government as being

a reliable site for that information to be gone so the fact that information is missing is a little bit terrifying and so Charlie and I kind of feel like part of our job is to stay online and give you folks information. We're not going to necessarily say here's a good list because quite honestly by the time this gets produced and uploaded we have no idea if those sites are going to exist. So if you want information on a specific topic and need a site to go to we will absolutely find something and do an episode on that. If you don't want it done publicly you can include your contact information in the show suggestions and if you're like I just want I just want you to contact me I'm we're happy to do that but information is missing and from a

before I was a sexologist I was a health educator I have two degrees in health education and the lack of accurate information from a health perspective is terrifying because how do you make how do you make good decisions for you without knowing the information and how do you know where you're safe yeah if if this information if if objective studied verified information is deleted and so now you don't have somewhere to reference and then you have a a you know it is candid so i'm going to say fuck it you have a regime right now who their motivation is to create distrust in education science all the things that help keep us healthy and evolving as as a modern society everything they're doing is designed to control or to incite

some kind of hate mass riot panic yeah panic that will lead to

those of us who know this to be not the right course of action for humanity we if there's a mass rise rise up then they can declare martial law

and that throws the constitution out the window yeah I mean they're already trying to do that so well that's what i mean i mean that that's that's what these steps are yeah that's that's what this is all intended to do so with uh i think a little bit ago you you were talking about like how quickly it was all happening and how you how we all may be feeling

and so it is imperative that you try to balance away and if you have general doom anxiety now that just kind of hangs out try to find the ways where you can rest where you can center and and look for ways that for you feel impactful if you're a researcher look for for ways and causes because we can't be everywhere all at once but we can as a collective go where we know we can be effectively and then bring your talents bring your passions to that space so like for us this is one of these avenues being able to talk to you all in this space so you know fine if you're researcher find a way to contribute to two different causes that are that are trying to stand up for civil rights so our civil rights don't disappear so that's kind of the broad strokes

piece of it but we are in sex health so but even for that like the research like i have friends who do research in so many areas of sexuality and sexual and reproductive health and funding's gone with NIH and CDC like the funding is gone um and and I've always had an issue with funding in sex research because we we tend to fund and I know I've talked about this before so much of what we do in the sex education and sex research world is like doom and disaster and dysfunction and death you know I'm doing research right now on pleasure and we we don't have any grant money because who's going to give us money to study pleasure if you would like to give us money to study pleasure we are a multi-pronged institutional research team that is looking to reach out to

non-traditional um places um no we so we're doing we are doing a research on site but a study on pleasure but there was no money for it and so we've always had issues with funding and um they have threatened funding sources for anything related to sex as long as you know if you can tie it to big pharma cool like that's why we know so much about erectile dysfunction drugs um but i will say a lot of folks who are doing research in this world are now like where is my funding and what does that mean for my job um so we do want to acknowledge that well you need your help to save the world we also understand that you need to get a paycheck and feed yourself and your families so and i think that's the hard part about trying to balance all

this we can't you can't do it all um so here's homework task number two i think i gave one was like if you can help us spread the word or help us figure out how to go bigger or if you want to sign us to a contract we're here yeah so so homework number two and I'm gonna steal this from a from a meeting I was in where it was it was getting really heavy and finally the person running the meeting goes hey we need you but we don't need all parts of you all the time and that was like for me I don't think I realized how much I was like carrying the weight on my shoulders but I'm like okay I get it now so I'm just gonna repeat that one more time take what you need from it we need you we need you to fight this fight we need you to do education we need you

to have conversations we need you to call your elected officials we need you to get information we need you to be educated we don't need all parts of you all the time you are entitled to have those down times so that's so so two is homework two is take care of yourself which i think is always our rule it is yeah but i think that's more important now than ever because i think that you know and that was part of our conversation was the overwhelm of it all and and feeling guilty for doing things that we still enjoy because comparatively it doesn't it air quote doesn't matter but I'm gonna argue that the things that you find joy in right now matter more than ever because that centers you recharges you and can keep you in

whatever advocacy fight that you that you choose to be a part of in the ways that you choose to be a part of them in that was a clumsy sentence but anyway that's why it's candid yeah that's why it's candid um but that it is important to center because you cannot show up for the things that you care about or are passionate about if you're not showing up for yourself and sometimes that just means doing something that sure by the world standard with the the goings-on of the world may feel minuscule but it's your world and it's going to help you so and if helping you right now helping yourself right now gives you the emotional battery charge that you need to then go okay I know how I'm gonna I'm I know how I'm gonna contribute to this cause and you don't have to

contribute to all of them I want to reiterate that because I think many of our listeners or just people tuning into this episode likely have and that overwhelming feeling because they're empaths by nature or something so you feel like oh it's it's like all the holes in the dam are like the dam is about to break and I mean and I only have 10 fingers and 10 toes and I can't plug all the all the leaks that's okay because if we are all organizing in a way then we can all cover those leaks. So you don't have to do all the things. I'm feeling a little targeted right now. As you're making very intense eye contact. It's not targeted. No, I think that's, I think that's a hard part for us. I mean, we also have full time jobs outside

of this and trying to figure out how to show up to those jobs and do the work that we need to do and then do this this is this is important and yes those of you who threatened me nicely i i get i have to keep doing this um but i i do i mean charlie you nailed it like we can't we can do it all together but we can't do it all alone and and i i don't think people realize the simple act sometimes of sharing accurate information like i was on a call today i'm not going to name you if you're listening you better be listening um i was on the phone with someone today and i was clarifying some information about what's happening. It was mostly actually because of what's happening in Kansas, not specifically sex related, but health related. And I do have two

degrees in that. So I have to go back to that for a second. So those of you unfamiliar in Kansas right now, they are facing the largest tuberculosis. What is with my speech today? Tuberculosis, as you say here. They have the, sorry, I was going to make a mainland joke. And then I realized most folks don't realize that. So I'm from Brooklyn, New York, and I often joke that I'm from a small island off the eastern United States and you mainland people confuse me. So anyway, tuberculosis, Kansas is having largest tuberculosis outbreak since the 1950s. And it kind of is a sex thing, because one of the ways you can get tuberculosis is when people cough on you and breathe on you. So, you know, that can happen during sex. But it's really not. But just giving

that person accurate information I know they're going to repeat it and so that's one of the things that we want to do we do want to make sure that we are being a source of accurate information if there's a question you want answered and we're going to say this a couple times you can you can submit it to us as a show if you want it answered as a as an article post that I do on Sunday submit it to me we'll put both links in the description if you want both just just tell us but one of the strongest things you can do right now is to make sure we're repeating things that accurate um because that is one of the things that i'm getting a lot of misinformation on so when some of the executive orders and i'm not even reading the fucking titles because they

are designed to piss people off and they pissed me off so congratulations um but one of the executive orders about what about sorry i'm shaking i know people can't see me i'm just shaking my head about there only being two sexes which biologically is not true and we covered this we covered this a while ago so go back and watch or listen that episode um and and what a lot of people are like oh we need to we need we need to we need to change what we're saying we need to change what we're teaching we need to do this now it does not go into effect immediately it did with the dei stuff which is also horrific and for those of you who are not cis white men like we see you And we know the struggle and we're struggling ourselves in many ways.

But unless it was directly at a federal agency, it does not kick in automatically. And I guess this is homework number three. Do not obey in advance. Yes. Correct. Do not do that. You have to. So until it becomes law, don't. Because so many of these things are already held up in court. um but one of the things that i do is i prep teachers for how to teach health and part of what they're teaching is sex ed and i got a flurry of emails from former students like what does this mean for me i'm like nothing yet it means nothing yet well i had a parent tell me and i'm like that is misinformation and you need to correct it you need to correct it with the parent and you need

to correct it with administration so this is why information right now accurate information is so important. So yes, read things, make sure they're coming from accurate sources, make sure when you're repeating stuff, it is actually real information. But those EO is about what's happening K through 12. And then there was another one that came out very recently. Those do not go into effect automatically. Anyone who tells you that is trying to scare the shit out of you and don't let them do it. It doesn't mean for those of you who are working in education that you're not going to have a lot of pressure put on you and i get that pressure because i have been working for teach with teachers for years who are like they're already threatening my job if i say things

like being gay is okay um or not coming from a single you know from from a household that had two parents right i was working with a school district once i mean there's probably gonna be a ton of these tangents i was working with a school district once and they had anger about the fact that they wanted to put in the middle school curriculum that families are not always nuclear families they're not always mom dad 2.3 kids a dog I think now it's a cat and a fence or whatever they were angry that we wanted to put in that family may not look like that that's up that's it that's all it was we didn't say that we wanted to make sure that they were talking about two moms or two dads we we weren't and they accused and the reason i go there is we were

accused of having a gay agenda we were working in a district where a lot of the kids were being raised by aunties and by grandparents and by family members who are basically adopting them but not quite there yet or single parents or blended families but the fact that the like they lost their mind over what these kids were living every day and so i i do get that for those of you who are out there in education world you may already be threatened like this is probably like just another Tuesday for you where they're threatening the content that you're doing but they did not go into effect automatically so do not obey in advance I think well because that's what they're counting on by doing this tide of this tsunami

of devastating eos is they are banking on the collective apathy of the public and fear because the easiest way to can to control into compliance is to create fear so i think i oh look i'm about to throw out some homework are you used i will i was gonna say you usurping my power but that power is for both of us it is i wish everyone could see your face right now i'm so excited about myself work to not react from fear acknowledge your fear because that is an initial that is a survival technique and that is okay but take a minute and then go okay let me look at this and then that way you don't have to comply obey in advance you can think you can start to think critically so

start to think of ways that you can recenter after. So we all get this information, we get the sound bites and the things in our social media feeds. And we may feel fear, we may feel anger, we may feel these kinds of emotions that can sometimes lead us to decisions we wouldn't normally make if we were in a neutral state. I'm not saying don't feel it, but don't make decisions based off of it. Try to center, try to, again, give yourself a moment for the reaction or however long you need. Sit in it, process it, and then take several deep breaths. do like a one minute breathing exercise and and then say okay let me analyze this let me figure out if this is where i need to put my energy or if i know someone who's better equipped

and then that's that's how we begin to organize and and resist these things and that's the next homework assignment we are just right i feel like one of us should be writing down the homework assignments um four three whatever I was numbering them I don't that's a teacher thing I think this is number five because I got number four yes but it was my first one I think we should restart the counting then your community now more than ever it is time to find your community and I would actually argue that you I don't want to I don't want to undo your first homework assignment but I think for some people there's a real fear of like deportation and a real fear of threat of safety and a real fear of like am i going to lose people and that that's important context i don't

mean to interrupt but that's important context um my my homework was assignment is coming from for the for those of us that don't have to live with that constant panic because you are you are living your life in a targeted community for those of us that don't have to have that constant panic this is our moment and there was there was a video i saw on instagram the other day that was like white women we need you when you see when you see potential ice agents or whatever we need you to karen like you've never karen's before this is the time to karen against all of these things resist these violations of our civil rights i i just wanted to make sure we said because while we are focusing on the

sex stuff i do i also know that some people are living in complete fear because and it's a it's a it's a just fear in some ways but but also what you were saying at the end of your homework assignment of like find someone who can help you now more than ever it is important that we find our community and that we find our people and it it may be people who are in the community with you it may be computer community that is digital it may be okay it I kind of want to say find your community and fuck everyone else because I am finding I am cutting connections faster than ever because the first time you say something that's not ignorant because I can I can work with you if it's just you don't know better but the first time you say something that's coming

from that hate place i you're not worth my time anymore you're just you're just not um so i'm finding i'm cutting connections um and it may just be because that's my knee-jerk reaction right now is to be like oh you're you really are a racist misogynist sexist piece of shit fantastic bye-bye um but find your community and it may be a community of one um and that community that person can connect you to someone else but you can't do this alone right now you can't you'll you'll lose your mind um so find that community so that's homework 20 i don't know 42 for my for my sci-fi fans um i have so much more like i've been writing it down i have i know i've been watching you like oh there's an idea um uh to to carry on that community piece there for again for

those of us i'm going to speak for uh from a perspective of someone who doesn't have to live in that state of panic find if you have someone in your circle that is experiencing that constant state of panic because they are a targeted community an immigrant community trans community like again ally like you've never allied before show up for it not just resist not just forward I'm not talking performative because another part of this, another part of this, a huge part of this is making it known and demonstrating to those people in your life that are being targeted by this horrendous Project 2025 that this dipshit is enforcing. you need to be there for them and you need to build trust with them. And I know many of us had a history curriculum where we all read the diary of Anne Frank. And this is the moment where you, who you are, who you would have been in that scenario. This

is the moment where that surfaces so if you know people in your circle that are being targeted touch base with them first in safe ways understand that digital platforms understand meta platforms are probably being monitored so figure out ways meet meet for coffee with them turn off your phone things those are listening device those can be used as listening devices not to be conspiratorial but we've all joked about well i was talking about this thing and all of a sudden this ad showed up for that exact thing so we all know so take measures to be intentional about the ways you can show up for people in your circle that are being targeted be a safe space yeah so that touched actually on two more of mine this list is growing this

is gonna be like it's like i can see your notebook but i can't um so one was going to be use your power i i need those of you who are not feeling threatened in any way shape or form which i really can't accept unless you're cis white man like i feel like everyone in some way shape or form is being threatened right now i need you to use your power in a way that works i need you to understand the power of telling stories because i think we're all seeing this like we're hearing like the oh this happened to one person and now we're telling those stories those stories are really important but do not out your friends because that's that's one of the things i've been seeing like i had someone call me and be like oh did you know so and so isn't like you know they're they're they're

thinking about going back in the closet i'm like uh that's not something you should be spreading without their because they don't feel safe where they are yeah um and and and like I was like I don't you shouldn't be like I don't think the person knows that you're saying this out loud like stop um like but it's important to know that somebody's going through this I'm like be there for your friends but do not and and tell their stories but do not out anyone by accident the last thing we want is someone who's trying to reach out to community who suddenly is a center of attention when they didn't want to be people who are struggling that you can help with the struggle. Lots of help with struggle in lots of different ways, whether it's financial, whether

it's volunteering in ways you haven't done before. I know there are organizations that are looking for lawyers to do pro bono work, but do not out your friends by accident. Make sure that you're telling stories and you're telling stories with consent. I know you're trying to help because those stories are powerful. We respond to storytelling. It's one of the things we tell people and like fundraising and communication be careful that you're telling a story that you're allowed to tell it i want to go back to something if i may we a little bit ago you were talking about factual information well is there any advice that you feel comfortable giving for our listeners to empower them to discern if it doesn't come from my mouth it's not true

I mean that was one of the first tenets of our friendship that you gave me that is true um I would just say question your sources in ways that you've never questioned them even us like I mean I know I'll give out information and like two weeks later it's outdated and when I know I've said it and if I can if I can say hey like I'm out of date now I do all the time I do this all the time in class be like hey this changed in the last week and I need to update you question your sources in ways that you've never done before I would try to find someone who is an expert in their field but also make sure they're actually an expert in their field because too many times you could just be like oh yeah I'm this and and really you have no training or

background or education or anything in that area um i would actually steal from a post i saw dan rather do which is it may be time to stop listening to mainstream media because i mean i know that a lot of the the newspapers do people still read news i mean like i'm thinking about major sites but i'm also thinking like the website version of them um i know that they were not reporting even the election in a very fair and unbiased way and so I think it's getting worse we're seeing major newscasters who are being asked who are basically stepping down because they don't want to play by rules that are being imposed on them that they feel like muzzle them so I would actually say maybe stay away from some of the mainstream maybe find people you trust who give

you the news but I think now more than ever it's not about going your traditional networks and your traditional magazines and newspapers I don't know if I feel comfortable naming them because there's a few i just got on the mailing list in the last couple weeks because i was i was also looking for sources that were unbiased um maybe in a couple weeks after i've been able to see their stuff a little bit more but i i would say look for alternate sources and question your sources and if you don't know where to go on a specific topic if you feel comfortable reaching out to us we we can try to fill in some of those blanks so i mean on some topics yeah yeah for sure we'll never be able to answer you know um but hey what i hate to say like question everything

but question everything right now question the sources and if a source doesn't feel right then it's probably not right i know one of the things that i'm doing is looking outside the u.s for sources so i'm looking more i mean i've always kind of looked at some of the sources coming out of like europe because i think that their their view of us sometimes it's like what the fuck is going on over there um but i find a lot of times when i'm reading um stuff that's not published in the u.s that i'm actually getting a much more unbiased look at what's happening so i would encourage you to just i hate to say stay away from mainstream media i think it's got a role but i don't know if it's serving us the good it used to now so that would be my thing is question everything

um if you don't know where to go we're happy to try to connect you with some things like i said I mean, I can't, we can't answer questions on everything. But especially if it's in the realm of sex, sex education, sexual health, any kind of reproductive health, like we can definitely lead you to sources that have good information. And I would, I would also say for me, when I get wind of, of a new media source, that's not mainstream. One of the first things I do because social media ads are targeted and all of those things. one of the first things i research is who owns the publishing of that source of that media source so that's a way to just kind of trace up to see all right is this owned is this particular magazine owned by meta or is it owned by um fox murdoch the murdoch empire you know so figure out who's

paying for getting this out there can be a good way to suss out all right is this is this propaganda or is this legit I mean it feels weird to say old school yeah old school journalism where it there were the tenants of journalism there and the reporters held themselves to it you know there's some influential not influential but accredited I don't know I don't know the word I'm looking for but some anchors that have stepped down and left news organizations because of the directives that they're getting from from executive management for what they are going to air I think the word you're looking for is ethical oh yeah there it is you did it um yeah i would uh i would encourage you to double check stuff um i actually get a

lot of my news initially through social media um and then it goes to check and see if it's actually accurate but it gives me a way to start looking at stories i may not have gotten before i'm actually going to repeat a homework assignment that we've actually done before yeah i'm borrowing from the past um for those of you who are on social media start making sure you're following people who don't look like you and I know I've said this in the past different races different backgrounds different ethnicities different income levels different different orientations different genders different whatever it may be nationalities experiences lived experiences but the way to get diverse information is to have diversity in your

feed so that's a homework assignment I also give my students like especially my white students your feed shouldn't be all white people um so that would be one thing is is to definitely try to diversify that feed and again we're not going to list people i mean i know there's some people that i follow that it was so funny because once i started following them that's like my entire feed changed and it was awesome um but i don't know who's i know people are pulling down their social media right now for protection so we're not going to necessarily give them out uh i would also like to get their consent before i would give their names out so yeah yeah that is something that dr sue and i are committed to we've had accounts that we've wanted to give shout outs to

that we reach out to and and until we hear back we just won't because it's important for us to know that they are okay with it yep so what's our so we've talked a lot about i think our processing of the things and um i what do you see our commitment as moving forward over these next several years with our information with us particularly yeah when did i commit to years with you that was the second tenant of our friendship right at the beginning you stuck with me oh i'm sorry i completely lost the question because i was like wait a second that's okay they're gonna start paying us for this because i can't keep working for like 15 jobs and doing side hustles and doing this as well well so when we when we were talking uh last week

as we were gearing up for how we wanted to move forward there was something that or not something but we we had talked about all right we've got to frame this we have to be meaningful even more meaningful in each episode because now we have to um make sure that we are offering ways to find factual information that we are giving the most up-to-date information that we can in the moment so what do you see as our commitment to our listeners existing and new during this time that we're just gonna i mean i'd like to go back to maybe a little more light-hearted stuff after this yeah we're gonna sandwich we're gonna like we're gonna go from all over the place i think we're gonna continue just to kind of tell the stories that we know to be true we're gonna

answer your questions we we and we say this i think we've said this from the first few episodes we really want this to be based off what folks want to hear so if there are things that are buzzing in your brain or things you want information about you know help us guide where we're going. We've been lucky with the last few shows that they've been in direct responses to what people have asked for. So I kind of see our role as just a place where people can get accurate information and to answer the questions that are buzzing in their brains. I think too with for me it's also keeping an eye on what's going on so that we can give episodes that are addressing thing information that may be disappearing um critical information that that is disappearing

um so that we can be a source that you can come to and that you can share with people to find uh so that they can find some of the answers that they might be looking for or a resource to ask the questions for the answers that they are looking for yeah so you wanted to get light-hearted no i'll do that next week because there are there are a few things i want to make sure like as a summary i feel like we've given enough homework we really should have kept track um there's a few things that i want to say that i believe to be absolute facts in my world and if you don't agree with them then maybe this isn't the podcast for you um trans and non-binary folks you exist i don't give a shit what any

executive order or law says you exist and we see you and we and you've always existed you've always existed um for folks who are sexual minorities like my lgb folks because our t's we've just kind of discussed um we are as concerned about your legal rights as probably you are and we are keeping an eye on that um abortion is health care 100 abortion is health care if you are really pro-life you should be for sex education and you should be for protecting the lives of mothers and not just fetuses and that's one of the things that's getting lost i've been watching some of the i follow a few medical doctors um in my instagram and you know they're they're getting these comments like oh it's not a you know abortion isn't health care it absolutely is health care

it absolutely is health care and for my folks of color who are listening to this who are fighting the battle on multiple levels because it's not just your identity as male female trans non-binary gender query gender how you how you identify for gender that level those those multiple levels of who we are that intersectionality kind of piece of who we are we we get it and we're we're trying we're trying to be there for you and and i so again i'm just going to call out that piece I need people to use their power as they can. And if you don't think you have power, like if you really think you have zero power, you can always pick up the phone and call your congressman, your senators. Those calls are logged. They are logged. So they know how many

people are calling for an issue and against an issue. So if you have 18 issues you want to talk about, I need you to make 18 separate phone calls. I need you to get on the phones and do that. And if that's the end of your day is sending an email to your elected representative or making a phone call and that's all you can muster, that's okay. We're going to tap on each other to pick up the rest of the load. So I would add to that for those of us that have some power because we don't have, we are not part of a highly targeted community. Do not go to that community and expect them to educate you on how you can help them this is our job now we need to figure it out it is not their lift necessarily to educate us on the history like we need to be doing the work

so that we can understand how to show up for them and how to support those communities yes he's thinking dr sue i'm trying to decide if i deliberately want to piss off an entire generation do it to the older folks who are out there you're not done i don't give a damn if you feel like you are retired and you're off the hook and you lived your life and you paid your dues and you you are not done especially if you are white you are not done and you still have work to do and if i hear one more older person in my life go i've already fought the fight the fight's not done and it's not done with you whether you like it or not this fight's gonna happen around you so to my folks who feel like you've already done your lift especially those of you who have power right now

you're not done so there's a few people i'm thinking of who've been pissing me off but oh i've already done my piece no you haven't you're still you haven't yeah you're still living in this country you still need to do the fight and those are the folks and i'm not saying all older people here but a lot of the older folks have no oh let me rephrase that was getting a little incendiary some of the older folks that i've spoken to do not know certain aspects of things like they look they grew up in a world where it was two sexes they grew up in a world you know i'd say like no one was gay but they just didn't know them because they didn't feel safe enough to talk to them um if you are over a certain age i do not care if you do not know these things it is your

job to continue learning and asking questions so when these executive orders come out and you go i don't understand why does it matter that he's only saying there's two sexes ask me and i will explain it to you until you get it why this is important it is not as simple as terminology these are people's lives we're fucking with and you are not done because you feel like you've kind of put in the time and i would add to that i need to get that off my chest sorry yeah well Well, and I would just add to that, I mean, for you older folks, you know of the poem that I am going to loosely reference here, when they came for the Jews, I stayed quiet. So there's a piece of this trajectory where they come for people that they don't deem

can contribute to society as productively as younger folks. so you're not done because it could be a matter of time yep and it could be someone that you love it probably is and you don't even know it and in a way he an eo he signed that he rescinded probably affected a lot of the generation the older folks oh yeah the freeze the federal the federal funding freeze so it may not be you being rounded up put on a plane and flown to a different country that you don't know because maybe you're actually a citizen or you were born here that's a whole nother type of podcast but that may be better for your for your other friend podcaster yeah yeah yeah i got it um but these are the subversive ways that they

come for us these days so no one necessarily is really safe from the fuckery that we're already seeing almost 14 days in so stay vigilant and resist stay vigilant resist breathe take your breaks as you need yes find your people and keep trying to do something even if it's one day just saying i'm going to sit down and read this executive order so i understand it that education because those things are long and they can be very wordy spending the time to actually learn what it says can be really powerful so just do what you can do at any given day at any given time but Remember, I'm just going to steal from this person over and over. We need you, but we don't need all of you, all parts of you,

and we don't need you all the time. Yes. Literally throwing up my hands. Yeah. Done. Quite literally. Done. Well, everyone, if you stayed with us through this whole episode

or listened to this episode in bits and pieces, because we get it, um we really appreciate it we thought this was an important episode to record especially right now um and to and and to put put it out there that we are a resource in the space and and and subject matter that that we are here for and that we can be a resource if you have a question if you're just lost on on something and you have a question send it to us please So, again, I want to thank you all for joining us on this very special episode of Unzipping Taboos, Candid Conversations About Sex. We do hope today's episode sparked new thoughts, new ideas, will open up, inspire conversations worth having with those around you. And please remember, especially now, your curiosity is the key to breaking down barriers,

resisting and making sure that we as a people in America do not lose our civil rights and also embracing healthier understandings of sex and relationships. If you enjoyed the show, if this resonated with you or any other episode has, please subscribe, leave a review, share it with someone who you feel might need to hear this or any other episode, leave a comment on this episode or any other episode that you've listened to. We want to engage with you, especially now, if not more so than ever. And if you've got a question or a topic that you want to ask us, please reach out to us via the link in the episode description. we want to give a very very special shout out to ali o'brien for incredible theme music thank you

ali and until next time please keep the conversation going please keep questioning and resisting and keep unzipping those taboos and take care everyone Thanks for watching!