Unzipping Taboos: Candid Conversations about Sex - Sex & Aging: The Taboos Around Menopause, Andropause, and Sex

Episode Date: February 26, 2025

In this episode, we unzip the often-overlooked topic of aging and its impact on sexuality. We discuss the physiological changes associated with menopause in women and andropause in men, exploring how these transitions affect sexual functioning, relationships, and self-image. Dr. Sue explains the importance of understanding changes like testosterone decline and lubrication challenges, while Charlie highlights the cultural stigmas that discourage open conversations about aging and intimacy. We also talk about practical considerations such as finding the right lubricant for postmenopausal vaginal health and the importance of exploring pleasure beyond traditional norms. Through stories, we emphasize the value of better education, open communication, and positive role models to break down taboos and empower individuals to embrace their evolving sexuality. Whether you're navigating these changes yourself or supporting someone who is, this conversation offers empathy and insights to help you thrive. If you have a story, thoughts and/or a topic or question for Dr. Sue and Charlie please share your ideas here:  ⁠Show suggestions

Hey everyone, welcome to today's episode of Unzipping Taboos, candid conversations about sex with Dr. Sue and Charlie. we're here to dive into the topics of sex and sexuality that you might be curious about but don't always feel comfortable talking about no judgment in this space just open honest conversation so zip down and let's get candid today we're going to talk about sex and aging and um we're going to focus a little bit on the physiological change um for that is related to sex and aging. But before we dive into that, I'm here with Dr. Sue. Hey, Dr. Sue. Hey, Chari. Would you like to tell our listeners a little bit about your background before we get

started? Yeah. So I'm going to make this a little specific as I try to do and then usually ramble to the topic. So I have a PhD in human sexuality and I have been doing presentations. I've been working on academia, but also doing presentations on aging lifespan, what's normal, all the things when it comes to sex. And a while ago, I started working in the field of sex and aging, working with folks who are aging, and then also doing stuff with folks who work with populations that are aging, which was mind-blowing for me when I first started. And I think I talk a little bit about that. We've already done an episode. For those of you like, haven't we already done sex and aging um we did do an episode that it's it's a we're taking a very different tack today um but

that's how i that's how i kind of got started in working with older folks as i was asked to come to your presentation for sex and for for seniors and that was my entree into the the field that does not get talked about nearly enough although that's most of what we do but anyway we'll get more into it um in case you don't know charlie um shame on you for not paying more attention during our episodes? No. For those of you who don't know Charlie, Charlie is our fantastic co-host who's always ready to explore the ins and outs of all the things that we're talking about, sex, relationship, and all those taboo topics that we very rarely talk about as a culture. So would you like to give us a little bit more about you? Sure. I and Dr. Su have been friends for many years,

and we talk about all manner of things as friends and so when Dr. Sue wanted to start this podcast she said hey let's have those conversations on a through a microphone and record them and I said yes okay because I enjoy challenging taboos and societal expectations of what what I'm supposed to, air quote, talk about as a woman in American society. And so I enjoy not doing what's expected. That might be our earliest air quote. I think it might be. So here we are with candid conversations about sex, everyone. Yes. And we should probably talk about how we got to today's topic because it it was a direct ask yes yeah so this one several several several humans um some humans did it in the comments uh not the comments they did it in

the suggest a show idea so we'll put that in the show description you can anonymously suggest show ideas some people who know me in the real world were like when are you doing something on menopause It's it's mostly been about menopause that we will be talking about aging for men as well. But this was this was a request. And so we wanted to honor that request because it is something that we're not. I mean, as little as we talk about aging in general, we definitely don't talk about what happens to folks as they age from a sexual side. Maybe we'll talk about some of the other things that happen as you get older, like thinning hair and brittle bones. But we don't really talk about the sex side of it.

So thank you for those of you who cornered me in a non-threatening way and said, we need this episode. Thank you for those of you who submitted it through the website. We appreciate it. So here's your episode. Yeah. And I just want to mark this occasion. This is the first episode topic that is listener-driven suggested. yeah directed i mean we've had a few that have been like hey if you mention this we had the relationship one we had a couple folks asking about that oh that's true that's true okay yeah it's our second yeah all right yeah sex and aging go um so aging let's do the aging part You do the sex part. The aging part's going to happen, hopefully, to all of us as you know, we're going to we're going to make it that long. Hopefully the aging part will happen. And it's. I mean, I feel like we kind of eviscerated health care in our last our last our last episode. So the problem is that we we kind of forget to tell people what that aging process looks like.

And because our health, and we're not going to read you how health care is not primed to talk to folks about sex, but because health care is not always primed to talk to people about sex, we very often forget to tell them what's going to happen with aging that's going to impact their sex drive or their sexual functioning. And so then folks are just kind of wandering around thinking, is it just me? Like, is this normal? So, yeah. Do you want to start with the guys? Since we very rarely talk about that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I think that'd be a great starting point. Um, and I, I'm going to throw out maybe a,

a new vocabulary word for everybody. Cause I, well, no, for everybody, I, I kind of assume you may have already known about this word. Um, but when we were talking about doing this episode, I I wanted to know what the term was for men entering their poetically their sunset years of their golden golden golden years the golden hour of their years because we've got the term for women and it's very marketed and used a lot but But so it's andropause. Yes. But it is not.

What term does Dr. Milstein hate? Dr. Sue hate? Male menopause. I hate that term. Yeah. Yeah, it is not male menopause. I absolutely despise that term. I don't think I've hated a term in a while.

So there we go. At least in a couple of episodes. Yeah. So andropause, marking the gradual decline in testosterone levels that occur with age. Yeah. It usually starts for men somewhere in their 40s, and it's a slow decrease of testosterone. It's not low T, which is what I get from a lot of men. So there's this question when I start bringing up this normal side of aging, they'll say, oh, it's low testosterone or low T, which is what we call it, and it's not. Low testosterone is something completely different.

It's when your testosterone levels drop below a certain level, and there are things that we can do to help with that. Anthropause is just a slow decrease in testosterone that gradually happens over time. and that's actually one of the reasons i hate the term there's so many reasons i hate hate such a strong word um the reason i don't want to call it male menopause is because it's not like menopause so with with women once they've gone 12 months without having a cycle which is not impacted by any hormonal contraception that they're on they're off while their hormonal contraception they've gone through their their their 12 their one year without having a menstrual cycle at that point they are post-menopause and that's a whole different

being because your estrogen levels have have definitely changed you're never post-andropause so like your pre-menopausal perimenopausal then you go through menopause which is that year and then you're post-menopause for men you don't there's no post like you're an andropause from whenever it starts for you and usually in the 40s maybe early 50s and it's just a slow decrease of testosterone so you're never quite past it and so i don't i don't like linking the two first of all i don't know why we always feel the need to link the two like why if if one person has one thing you know why does each gender after this have the same thing but also it's this idea that you're never post andropause so that's one of the reasons i dislike the term severely you dislike the term

andropause no male menopause oh gotcha um yeah the thing that sedans out to me as well in relation to andropause is that there are lifestyle factors that you can incorporate to slow or prevent andropause. Yes. And we know that's not, there aren't lifestyle changes that will prevent menopause. Correct. Menopause is going to happen. That's a difference as well, to your point.

There's no, other than the decrease, the physiological decrease of a hormone level related to both of these terms, they are two very different things. There is not equivalency. Correct. Well, I mean, I think the reason we called it malmenopause for a while, and to be fair, I don't think I've heard that term in a hot minute. I feel like we've gotten a little bit better at not calling it that. But there are a lot of things that are similar between the two, which is why I think we kind of try to link it together. So things like loss of energy, things like headaches, things like mood swings, having sleep disruption. Hot flashes.

We don't usually tend to see those in men. But those other things we see in everybody. Like as you age, we're going to start to see – we usually see those in everybody. So I absolutely – the weight gain. Um, for women, it's about how our body is dealing with the weight. Like we're not, let me walk that back. For everybody, it's back to the fact that our bodies are slowing down and how we're using the energy that we're taking in. There's also a difference for the women because the way the estrogen levels are changing. Um, for men, we may also see some of that weight gain

just because our body, their bodies are slowing down, but then also they're losing muscle mass. So there's similarities and there's differences. So so it is I understand why we used to do it because there were some similarities in some of the symptoms. With that said. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I want I want to talk about because we've already talked about in another episode. And if you haven't listened to it or it's been a while, you might want to go back and listen to it again because I rail against our culture about something or other. No, about how we just don't think of what it means to be older and be sexy because we don't have those conversations. There are definite physical changes that happen for men as they start to age. It's going to be harder for them to get an erection. and it may or may not be true erectile dysfunction which is like a whole diagnosis and i don't really think we need to get into the diagnosis piece of that

but there's they're going to find it harder to get an erection their erections may not be as hard as they used to be so even if they can get an erection it may not be as hard as it used to be and then there's going to be a longer time in between their ability to get an erection and so So when you're young, when men are young, the whole joke is like they get an erection, you know, stiff breeze, whatever, whatever random thing is happening around them. And then if they do happen to ejaculate from whatever they're doing, like that they can get hard again and ejaculate again pretty quickly. And then that it's what we call the refractory period. And that refractory period gets longer and longer and longer as you age. And so it's not that you're not aroused in your brain. It's that your body may not be able to follow.

And since the only thing we like to talk to men about as they age and about their sexual functioning is having erectile dysfunction, there's this assumption that it's erectile dysfunction. And it may just be that super long or refractory period. Interesting. Yeah, sorry. I was talking for a while. No, you're good.

i mean this is why we you're the expert i there's i want to i want to tell the story about this couple go for it it's during this live event and this couple comes up to me they're they wound up there in their late 70s and she was like leading him like like we're gonna go talk to this this expert and she comes up to me she's just like he has a rectal dysfunction and he's just standing him there like i don't know why i'm here sorry man like he just looks so sad and i yeah i was like okay like he has erectile dysfunction that's a that's a really that is an actual clinical diagnosis like has he been to a urologist does he have a diagnosis and she goes no no but we have sex every morning and i'm like the back of my head i'm like good for you yeah well done

and then she's like and then after lunch like we he just can't get it up again and i'm like that's that's not erectile dysfunction that's a longer refractory period that also may be influenced by a lot of the medications and he's just sitting there like he's not sure if he's supposed to be embarrassed or smiling he was adorable um i was like no that's just that can sometimes just be a normal symptom of aging the fact that he's having an erection every morning and that you're using it like you may just have to change how you're doing sex play in the afternoon it doesn't mean you can't and it doesn't mean he's not excited and it doesn't mean he doesn't want you it just may be a longer refractory period so yeah they were adorable that's always

one of my favorite stories that you like to tell because i could just anyway so yes that's that's what we're seeing for men the other thing and i'm gonna do a little generational thing here because the men who are in their 70s 80s and 90s now were born in help me with the math the 1950s 40s and 30s yes sweet math still works and and i want to admit right now we don't have a ton of research about people who identify as lgb um and aging we actually see to me what's a little bit disturbing we we sometimes see folks who are going back in the closet as they're going into assisted care facilities because they're afraid of harassment and discrimination yeah so we we don't have a ton of research about what those relationships look like as they age but what we

know is that for straight couples if they stop having sex it's usually because he wants he it's usually because of him not because of her which is an interesting kind of switch to the gatekeeper way we usually look at sex right like right in a straight relationship it's she's the one who dictates when they have sex so what happens with men as they age um we're going to see things like depression, especially as they're going through retirement and there's a loss of identity. Unfortunately, we also see an increase in suicide in this age group, possibly from the loss of identity, possibly because of medical issues they're dealing with, but there is an increase in suicide in that age group. So if you know a man in the older age

group who's talking in ways that sound suicidal or depressed, please say something to them. But what happens is they've got lower energy. Their bodies don't feel like their bodies used to and they're not initiating sex and for these older couples especially for women who are born in the 30s 40s 50s and 60s they were taught that that's not their responsibility or their job is to initiate sex and not that that can't change but they don't necessarily have the language to say like hey like you up for this or it like that was still that time the you know 40s and 50s That's when good girls didn't talk about sex or have sex or initiate sex. And so what we're finding is that that loss of a sex life for straight couples as they age is because he's losing the energy.

And his testosterone is going down. His penis may not be working the way it used to. And he's just not feeling right. And he's feeling kind of funky. And so the sex life dies off because he's no longer initiating. and she either doesn't know how or doesn't feel comfortable or doesn't have feel like she has the permission to take on that role yeah that makes sense yeah so it is it is one of those things that you know I talk about when I talk about all the side effects of just getting older and everyone's

like how is you know how is mood swings uh impact my sex drive like how do mood swings impact your sex drive like come on like but we often forget to think about like that whole body change all of those things can be impacting someone's sex life so um anything else that comes to mind when we're talking about men and sex and aging or shall we get to the i just because spotlight yeah and and i i want to i just want to say that and i think we brought this up in the last episode on aging but it bears repeating the sti rates for folks who are over 50 they're a little scary to be honest when you watch them um and so one of the things that i tell folks who are older is that especially if they're having a problem getting

an erection. Maybe looking into an internal condom, what we used to call a female condom, but we don't gender our condoms anymore. And usually what happens when I bring up an internal condom is they look at me like, what the hell's wrong with you? I don't know what that is. Like just speak English. Internal condoms or condoms, again, we used to call them female condoms. But the great thing about internal condoms is you do not need to have a full erection. So if you are struggling with erections, but you are still interested in getting frisky and STIs are a concern you may want to look into an internal condom that's my last all right okay so now I feel like there should be a drum roll or something where's Allie when we need her I know

I need her in studio for on-demand music cues um so sex and aging and menopause Yeah. Yeah. And I kind of want to start here. I mean, again, I know we've already talked about we don't have good role models for women being sexy as they age. We talked about that in a previous episode. It still bears repeating because it does impact how people see themselves. um the really big thing i'm trying to figure out how to approach i'm trying to figure out where to start this because it's an all-body experience just like andropause is an all-body experience for men menopause is an all-body experience for women and for a long time we used to say that up your sex drive is going to tank when you get older and you've gone through menopause and we actually find as for some women it's the exact opposite because they don't have to worry about pregnancy anymore and that's been a huge concern for them for literally their entire reproductive lives

and suddenly like i can't get pregnant and it takes like that concern out of the bedroom for some women they just it's this great i was doing a live event once just for women on sex and aging and we were doing um kind of fill in the blanks like if if you could you know if i think the one i was doing that day was if you could talk to my college students what would what would you tell them about sex in your 60s 70s and 80s and it was all a lot of them were like you know enjoy it while you're young. And I'm like, okay, I'm not giving them that. But a lot of it was like, it just gets better with age because you learn about your body and you kind of get to that point where you're like, this is what I want. And hopefully you

find that voice. There can be hard for women who are, who are again, born in the thirties and forties. We're starting to see a lot of changes with the boomers as they're getting older and kind of how we think about aging. But a lot of it was really positive about like the best is yet to come no pun intended um and just that you get to this point where you're like yep this is my body and this is how it works and you you may also because of some of the things we're going to talk about the vaginal dryness and the and lack of lubrication you may start re-exploring bodies to find other parts that feel good and that's that's a great and i actually wish people of all ages like 20s 30s 40s i wish everyone would kind of do this with a partner it's like stop

just focusing on genitals and boobs and like start re-exploring the rest of the body but if you're trying to avoid intercourse because it's painful or you're trying to avoid intercourse because body parts aren't working the way they used to a lot of times they start re-exploring the rest of their body and they find all these great things that they kind of forgot about or never knew about interesting i i don't i don't know um what more like i that i can lend to this um so i just i these are these are great things that i think we're daylighting yeah and and having um the conversation about in the language right yeah so so one of the things that changes a lot for women as they age is um there's a lack of lubrication and the funny thing is this is a

whole body experience and this is actually one of the people who who's like you have to do an episode on this she was struggling with her contact lenses because it's a whole body kind of we see we talk a lot about vaginal dryness um and one of the biggest complaints for women from a complaints one of the biggest issues that women face sexually as they age is they report pain during intercourse because there's thinning of the body tissue and there's lack of lubrication because we don't talk to women about lubrication normally um they don't realize that they can address that and so one of the things they do is avoid sex because it hurts when this one might be an easy fix like go buy some lube but it's a general like your whole body changes in terms

of lubrication and so one of the women i'm not going to name you don't worry but i hope you're listening was having problems with her contact lenses because the how how dry out her eyes were getting yeah yeah as as you put on some lip balm yeah yes i do this has been a thing since high school though um so so the really big issue for women as they age is often pain during sex which can be avoided um it may be that there needs to be more sex play before there's penetration or lube lube is like your best friend i think all the time i was gonna say yeah all the time most every instance yeah for everyone and the thing to keep in mind i don't think we've actually talked about this so the vagina is naturally on the more acidic side of the ph scale oh here comes the

science everyone i know um what happens as we age is that the ph of our vagina gets a little bit higher. So it starts to creep a little bit up more towards neutral. It never hits neutral, never even comes close, but it's going to change. But what that means is that if you are using a vaginal lubricant that was pH balanced for your vagina before menopause, you may suddenly be finding that you're having more yeast infections or more irritation. And it really may be that you don't have a lube that aged with your vagina. So if you've had a lube that you loved and now it's not the best one, you may just want to find one that's a little bit more pH balanced for the new vagina that you have as you go through menopause i like i like that the new vagina the

new vagina vagina 2.0 that's a great outlook the other thing that happens though is is the hormone the mood swings i mean the mood swings are real like your estrogen levels are trying to figure out what to do and and the mood swings are legitimately going to drive you a bit bonkers and you're not sleeping and this is always when i start talking about menopause with folks who are going through it which i always feel a little stupid when i'm doing it i'm like so this is what you're going through and they're like yep um but the reason i talk i usually talk by talking about the mood swings and the insomnia and the night like you have the hot flash but then your body isn't going to regulate your temperature well because as everyone ages our bodies don't regulate

temperature the same way so you have a hot flash and you know you've turned on the air conditioning every fan in the house is going but then you're really really cold because your body a you're cooling down very quickly and b your body's not regulating temperature and so it's really hard to get turned on when you're cold and it's you know we don't we don't think about that there is another couple and so apparently the way he would tell her it was a straight couple the way he would tell her that he was interested in having sex later was that he would turn up the heat in the house and like she didn't pick up on it or she was post-menopause so it wasn't like she was having the same the same chill you know hot flash chilling effect yeah but she started picking

up on it and was because he wanted her to be comfortable when she disrobed which i thought was really sweet and also that's very sweet right and also it's a no pressure way like if you're not into it you just go over and like turn that heat back down but um you're like nope 68 air conditioner on um but but it's all those like the mood swings and the headaches and the the the the not sleeping and this is when i would talk about insomnia and and aging and menopause women always be like yeah and i'm i'm like okay but let's talk about how this is impacting you sexually and like well it's just insomnia I'm like no no no no no like it's hard to be present and get sexy when you are exhausted like yeah I have one or two nights of insomnia and I can't remember my own name like

you know you're just not functioning and now you're supposed to be all like oh baby like in the sexy place and it's hard to do when you have headaches I feel like I'm about to steal every woman's like best excuse when you have a headache not migraines migraines are a different beast and we do not we're not talking migraines here but if you have a headache a general run a run the mill headache one of the best ways of getting rid of it is to have an orgasm yes yeah so it's not like not now dear i have a headache like should be like right now dear i have a headache but you don't want to deal with the person either it's like i have a headache and i know an orgasm will make me feel better you could do it on your own like it doesn't have to be with a partner

um but it's like even if you get that it's the whole idea of like oh i gotta deal with another person or like, you know, it's just the pain, being in pain, having a headache, not being able to function. All that's going to affect your entire sex life. So I feel like we throw out these things of like, yes, you'll have mood swings and yes, you'll have insomnia and yes, yes, all these things. But we don't talk about how that is actually impacting your desire to be intimate. So all of those things, yes, are part of menopause. Yes, many of them should go away after your postmenopausal. But yes, they're also going to have an impact on your sex drive and your sexual functioning, even if they're not directly tied to your sex drive.

That's, I think, something that's so important to call out, right? Because especially I, you know, I have friends who, where we talked about like their aunts and their moms who were going through menopause. And one of them said her aunt would just look at her husband some days and just be like, I fucking hate you. So it can be difficult to feel to the points that you have made to feel sexy or desirable or to desire, not even just feeling desirable, but to desire a partner. If you're partnered with someone while you're going through all of this, to desire them while just our bandwidth is overflowing between the physical symptoms and the mental and emotional symptoms. And then put on top of it, a little cherry on top, is the social perception that

has been conditioned into us. You all know I love social conditioning talk. That has been conditioned into us surrounding menopause and women in menopause right and you know on top of that like your clothes aren't fitting the way they used to and you know you don't yeah it's it's all of that it's it's the social conditioning of oh well i've hit menopause like i don't exist as a human and i hear this actually from women who are single who are in their 50s and 60s actually for some of them and start in their 40s that like they don't seem to exist in the world anymore as a female like they're just like there's zero attention being paid to them and i don't mean by culture i mean like physically in a space like it's like they don't exist because they're older

women um yeah so it's all of those things but we you know we just throw it out like a punchline it's just menopause but it's it's not it's it's a full body experience that we haven't really experienced since puberty right and that was such a joy the first time through right but yeah it's it's it's all of those things it's the thinning hair it's the it's the exhaustion it's our bodies you know clothes don't fit the way they're supposed to where they used to digestion changes so you could feel constantly bloated after you eat because your body is changing the way it interacts with what you're feeding like it's just it's a it's a ride ladies and then if you're in an age if you're in a partnership with a man who's the same age

he's going through his own crap right so it's like you're going through your own experience of trying to rediscover who you are and your body and how it works he's also going through his own thing of trying to figure it out but odds are he knows even less about what the changes that are happening to his body because most people have never heard the term andropause so he's going through his own like what the hell's going on with my body you're going through your own hell of like what's going on my body but for a lot of women it's a punch line or the way it's put to women that it's a punchline they should just work their way through it um so yeah it can it can wreak havoc on a relationship too just because you're both tired and cranky and bodies aren't

working the way they used to and you don't have the language i mean how do you if we're not even talking about as a culture how do we even give people the language to say i i think this was happening or even in the bedroom i know people have sex outside the bedroom but like but yeah intimately yeah sex hurts like i had another i feel like i'm telling all the couple stories i I have the greatest thing that I found when I started doing a lot of these live events with older folks, especially if it was in living places, like not just out in public, but if it was at like facilities where people were living, was I left more time at the end because inevitably they would all leave and come back individually to ask questions because they didn't want to ask questions in front of people they were living. I mean, essentially, you're living in a community with them. So they were great. Yeah.

But this woman came up to me and she said, sex hurts. And I said, I'm so sorry. And at this point, we'd gone through all the education. So she's like, and I get it why, but I don't know how to tell it. Like, I still love my husband and I still want to be with him. And I still enjoy it up until the minute it hurts. And so we talked about some things. Lube, best friend at this place.

You know, lube, that's appropriate for your body and where it is at this age. What she didn't know is that about 20 minutes later, he came in on his own. And he goes, I know sex is hurting my wife. and I don't know what to do and I just wanted to be like stop talking yeah right like stop talking through me and start talking to each other but they were in their 70s and this was 10 years ago so yeah what born in the 40s like they don't have that language but he knew that it was I don't think he understood how painful it might have been but they were they were in this place where they both wanted to love and respect each other and physically be with each other

but this is where that lack of communication becomes a huge problem because they didn't know how to even broach the subject so i'm hoping they used lube had a lot of communication went gently had a lot of sex play and it all worked out well for them but it also left me really frustrated with how many people don't even know how to bring this up with a partner of like i'm enjoying what we're doing but it's hurting so yeah yeah so you know you've mentioned a couple of times um lube ph yes so is there anything that you can help our listeners with as far as they say we have a couple of listeners who are like i i want to understand how to find that or what should I be looking for? Yeah. So normal, um, vaginal pH is somewhere going to be in like

the mid threes to mid fours. Um, I don't usually keep those numbers handy. If I had to say, I'd say, well, I'm not going to say three, five to like four, three, I guess I would say. Um, what happens as we go through menopause is that it's closer to that four to 4.5 range. The problem is they don't have to put the pH of a lube on the bottle. Okay. So what I would usually suggest to folks is do some if you have a gynecologist that you feel comfortable with that is talking to you about sex and sexual functioning they may have a recommendation i don't have any brands where i could be like this brand is the one i would recommend always because no lube is going to be the same for for every person right right it may it may you may need to do some some research online

you can usually search on a website to find ph's of specific products and there are also more and more websites and um articles being put out that cover this kind of topic and i know that there are some that are that are doing some really good work at like listing what the ph's are of different of different lubes so um it may take some time to do some research if you can't find it submit a comment about it and i will do the legwork for you not that we're promoted by any specific lube but right the reason i don't say like choose this one is that it may have something in the ingredients that your body doesn't like, or it may just not react well to your natural pH and what's going on with you. And that's why I don't usually recommend a specific lube.

Yeah, I think that's important to to delineate is it because we know every body is different, and and will react to things in a different way. I was just wondering if there were any kind of quick things or tips that um because you had referenced uh ph and lube um you know and and looking for one for your new vagina you like that term i do i do i think that's how we rebrand rebrand menopause yeah the new vagina um but i just wanted to like ask that question of you specifically not that uh not that looking for brand recommendations but like if this is what you're experiencing with your tried and true lube but now you're going through these changes here's what to keep in mind when you're looking at labels that kind of thing yeah but it sounds like some

research yeah just just looking for one that's got a little bit higher of a ph but not not anywhere past like six you don't want to go that high unless you're doing anal stuff in which case you do want something higher than seven because that's the pH of the anus. So it depends on what you're doing and where you're doing it, to be honest with you. Sure. That makes sense. Yeah. You may also find that like some are going to be silicone based, some are going to be water based, some are going to be oil based. The great thing is if you are past worrying about STIs and pregnancy, you may not be using a barrier anymore, which means you may be able to look at some of the more oil-based lubes that are not latex friendly because you again if you're not worried about stis

or if you're not worried about using a barrier for another reason you may start to be able to explore a whole new realm of like oil-based lubes that you couldn't use before so just trying a few out and seeing how that goes but if you have any ill reaction understand that it's a normal process of aging there's nothing wrong with you you're not broken just your body's trying to find something it likes love that the other thing that I that I have been noticing just you know in my Instagram feeds and everything um is that there's there is more as some of our as some celebrities are aging so the you know the Gen X celebrities are starting to hit um perimenopause um that they're having those conversations like they're bringing it to light you know

Halle Berry talks about it um that that example is the most recent one that was in my feed but that the conversation is happening more and more and I think it's because of that generational thing as well is that we have these platforms um I am a platform I have I'm a public person who has access to this platform let me tell you about this experience so it's less scary for you and i think that's one of the most beautiful things for and i i tend to see it in in i mean i'm seeing it in many um public people for lack of a better term celebrities like that you know people want to help so to and they want to make it less scary less um stigmatized that taboo yes even that yeah i think that as as we're seeing it and what's great is that 15 20 years ago

we wouldn't be having those people still be famous and carrying any weight right in our culture so the fact that we allow them the space that they deserve i mean if you think about a woman who's had a dynamic career and still deserve spotlight and i just want to throw out that they've fought for this space they had started they started talking about i know i'm aging i know people aren't going to be knocking on my door and so i think also the the conversation of that across the generations of public figures um saying that has also kind of pushed that that irrelevancy expiration date out further you know yes and i think it's also a change of the culture you know we saw this huge change when the boomers started becoming older and suddenly the norms that we had

seen were starting to change because they were bringing a different mindset and i think this is part of that mindset of i'm here and i will not be i will not be silent um which is which is fantastic on so many levels so hopefully we'll get to a point where you know when we're talking about aging and menopause first of all that we're not we're always going to joke about aging we're going to joke about getting older we're going to talk about the youth you know we're age is just always going to be a factor in conversation and how we talk but hopefully at some point we'll stop seeing it as acceptable to kind of throw out menopause as the punchline that's yeah that's the to cope. Yeah. Well, all right. Uh, we hope that that was a little bit, a little bit helpful.

Well, it's a little tiny, little tiny bit. I want to thank you all for joining us on this episode of unzipping taboos, candid conversations about sex with Dr. Sue and me, Charlie. We hope today's episode sparked new thoughts and will open up new dialogues worth having, conversations worth having. Remember, your curiosity is the key to breaking down barriers and embracing a healthier understanding of sex and relationships and sexual health. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who might need to hear this. And if you've got a question, a topic or a comment or a question or a topic you want us to dive into, reach out to us via the link in the episode description. We also want to hear from you any stories or thoughts you

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