Unzipping Taboos: Candid Conversations about Sex - The Reality of “Reality” Love: The Problem with Gamifying Sex and Love

Episode Date: October 8, 2025

From Love Island to The Bachelor to Are You My First?, these types of reality shows turn love and sex into a competition. But what does that say about how we see relationships—and ourselves?In this episode of Unzipping Taboos, we dive into the “gamification” of sex and relationships on reality TV. We unpack how these shows reinforce harmful beauty standards, perpetuate rigid gender roles, and normalize manipulation—all while being marketed as romance. We also explore the hypocrisy of a culture that politicizes marriage for some while turning it into a ratings game for others.At the same time, we talk about what responsible viewing can look like: understanding media literacy, treating contestants as human beings (not villains), and remembering that real relationships don’t look like staged drama on a tropical island. Whether you watch these shows for fun, critique, or guilty pleasure, this conversation unzips what it means to be a thoughtful consumer of relationship “entertainment.”If you have a story, thoughts and/or a topic or question for Dr. Sue and Charlie please share your ideas here:  ⁠Show suggestionsIf you want to ask Dr Sue a sex question for the weekly Q&A you can submit it here: Ask a question

Hey everyone, welcome to Unzipping Taboos, candid conversations about sex with Dr. Sue and Charlie. We're here to explore the questions you've always been curious about, but maybe the ones you don't always feel comfortable asking out loud. No judgment, no shame, just open, honest conversation. And before we get started, we've got some very exciting news. Unzipping Taboos is now partnered with jackandjilladult.com, one of the top online adult stores. And because you're here with us, you get 20% off with code UNZIPPING20 at checkout.

So check them out. And if you're not sure about sex toys, go check out that episode. And more to come on that. Now that the business is out of the way, today we're unzipping the, what I'm calling gamifying sex, love, and relationships. uh if you don't know what i mean i am talking about reality competition shows centered around love sex and relationships yes air quote reality um but before we do i'm here with dr sue hey dr sue hey charlie how's it going it's going well it's good to hear uh before we dive into this

uh before we unzip this i'm gonna get that one of these days on the first take um before we unzip our topic, would you like to give our listeners a little bit about your background? Sure. So I have a PhD in human sexuality, and I wear like 20 hats. Now that I'm podcasting with you, I have like 25. So I am an academic by day and a sex educator by night. No. I feel like that's a graphic novel, right? I work in academia during the day, and I deal with the academic things like I you know present at conferences I publish articles I write textbooks but then also I do a lot of work in the community and for anyone who can't come to my class so for all of you out there listening to this so I people submit anonymous sex questions to me through my

website and we'll include the link to that in the description if I remember to do that and people submit questions and once a week on Sunday night I answer them and I post them everywhere and I feel Like I do more stuff, but I feel like that community works the important piece here. So I'm excited to start doing live events now that like life is getting back under control. But yeah, yeah. So I do a lot of work in academia and then I also work in the real world because that's where people are with sex questions. So that's me.

For those of you who do and don't know Charlie, Charlie is our curious co-host who is always ready to unzip all those taboos around relationships and gender roles and television shows that I don't watch that she makes me talk about. You're definitely doing the How We Got This episode, but go ahead and tell us a bit more about yourself. No, duh, I'm doing that one. Anyway, I'm Charlie. I'm here with Dr. Sue. Dr. Sue and I have been friends for many a year. and um i am someone who has a general interest in the psychology of humanity humans all those things and how we interact with each other and the expectations we put on each other and that society puts on top of us on top of our expectations of each other it's like a whole

kind of nesting doll situation yeah um and challenging those really and especially um from the time i was a a young lass a wee lass um i i just always had in my mind like i'm i'm a human there should be no difference in what what is expected of me if i'm playing sports or performing i know that's cute um i it was very precious and idealistic and now I'm here anyway uh but that's me um and I I feel like on this show I've settled into this role of not only hurting Dr. Sue um although to be fair we keep each other out of some pretty um cavernous rabbit rabbit holes sometimes so I don't think that burden is just me just on me but anyway um but I've settled into my role here I've just like focusing on

the psychology being the um psychology hobbyist that I am I have no formal training other than a few college classes um but it is something that uh that just always piques my interest and I do love challenging and you know think of that that three-year-old going but why but why but why but why though? Tell me why. So that's me. That's me in a nutshell. There's my new refreshed intro. But why? All right. So today's episode came about because as some of you may know, we've alluded to it in several episodes. I like to turn off my brain by watching reality, some reality shows, not all reality shows. And some of them I've come to recently, like Love Island, which is having, especially Love Island USA is having its moment in the spotlight.

And because of that, and my engagement with socials, that we're talking about Love Island, And a show, a new show popped up in my streaming service called Are You My First? And it was a graphic of a bikinied torso, very lean abs, and a cherry in the belly button. And I was like, Jesus Christ, what the fuck is this? And then you sent it to me. So then I read the description before I sent it to you. And the premise is, air quote, and I'm sure these people are very attractive and very youthful and have done many things to stay in shape and all of those things.

But attractive virgins in a competition show to find out who is going to be their first time sexually. and after i got done throwing up in my mouth a little bit i took a screenshot and i sent it to dr c and i think my message with it was either an eye roll emoji or jesus fucking christ yep yep mine was probably facepalm in response yeah because that got me thinking maybe we should unzip this taboo yes and this is definitely not the impact of media and the messages we learn from media are definitely in my wheelhouse the different shows you made me well not made

consensus thing and i i did i did sit there willingly um you made me watch a couple episodes of that one that was enough for me for my lifetime yeah yeah um so i'm so yeah so we thought it was important to talk about um because one of the things i always hear from people is well that doesn't affect me and I'm like yeah it does anytime you're watching media it's gonna affect you and we do have an entire episode about media literacy and tied to porn literacy or is that we did too we did we did two different ones yeah yeah one about media and one about porn yeah so definitely go check those out if you want to know more about this but this idea of I'm immune to what I'm watching is probably the most common response I get from people. So we should talk

about some of the impact of these things. Yeah. So first off, I want to get into most of our regular listeners know, we like to start off with the definition, like giving the groundwork for what we're referring to as we're talking about this. So what I'm talking about with gamifying sex and relationships and love gave an example of like love island and are you my first the bachelor um love at first sight no love it's uh like where you're supposed to marry someone without even meeting them love is blind oh thank you love at first sight i think was a movie way back when probably 90 day fiance um all you know all all of those um and so we're talking about those formats specifically compet uh formats that make love um give the illusion that love and sex and

relationships are as competitive as these environments are showing yes is there anything you would want to add to that not that we're not necessarily you've run out and you don't necessarily have to run out and watch those i think most of us have an idea of what they are. They've been on so long. Yeah, there's been all sorts of different versions and formats. Yeah. So and it's, it's always interesting, because other parts of media will refer to it. You know, you'll, you'll hear things like The Bachelor being mentioned in other TV shows. You'll hear it, it's kind of like a pop culture moment. And so I don't think people realize just how ingrained in our reality and normal, normal everyday kind of conversation

it's become. Yeah, it's certainly become, especially shows like The Bachelor that have been around for 20 years now, have become part of the zeitgeist, much like when we don't say go search on the internet, we say Google it, you know. So it's become that kind of basis of of what we're talking about here so i think first what i would like to dive into um or unzip um i've got a couple of things here and so i i want to get i want to get your consent your take which which fork in the road do we want to choose first um impact on how we relate the psychology of the game um i think we'll kind of wrap up with responsibility as consumers and um or media literacy i don't think we have that much to do in media literacy because i feel

like we kind of i feel i feel like we've we've accomplished a lot with that um in the other episodes so let's not start i'm sure it's going to come up as we go so let's not start there um i guess talking about what was the first one um the impact on how we relate yes or i think a lot of for me would be like what is this what is this normalizing or attempting to normalize yeah yeah um so around that i think for the issues that i let me back up i'm gonna pause real quick i want to say that if you enjoy these shows as i do some of them i don't watch all of them as i said but if you find that you enjoy these shows enjoy them i we're not trying to um yuck your yum um but what we want to do my my hope is that you walk away feeling like you can

watch these and enjoy these a little bit more responsibly with more of an awareness or that if you have people in your life that really really enjoy these and engage in social media with the contestants in the show that if they're talking about it in a way or engaging sharing how they're engaging with that in a way that can sound alarming that you you have some language to say hey hey hey like i get it these are entertaining but you're talking about some some things that aren't quite great about about this consumption so a little bit of that yeah so um because charlie enjoys enjoys her reality shows she needs frivolous tv at the end of the day man and fucking day job no one should take that away

um and for me the thing is when we're talking to younger folks who are learning about relationships and they are mimicking a lot of times what they're seeing both in media and also in their friends but if their friends are also watching the same thing it right it's like screaming into an echo chamber because if we all watch the same episode we're all going to believe the same behavior is acceptable and so i work primarily with college students and no you know no no shame in my college students but there's still some some brain development going on there especially when it comes to things like understanding long-term impact of of decisions and risk taking and how they define risk taking so i think it's important to have those conversations across the board and like like

charlie said we're not we're not coming for your show um we're not we're not doing that and we're not slamming it it has a place frivolous tv and i'm going to use that term and if that that anyone finds that offensive Charlie used it first I sure did probably so here's the thing that we know and we don't have we're getting more and more data and more and more research and I do want to put on my academic hat for this because I need to lean a little bit more on that because I don't watch the shows but I also want to lean on some of the things I've heard from my students and in community groups I've done so one of the things that we know about about this from the research that we do have is that folks who watch these kinds of reality television shows i don't even

want to talk about relationship things at first if that's okay um that's fine yeah so now i'm going to focus on the impact of relationship though i'm taking frantically writing down notes um is this idea that it promotes a lot of your typical gender stereotypes about roles and expectations and i know for those of you just listening you can't see my air quotes there's a whole lot of air quotes today acceptable behavior for men or for women and again I don't watch these shows but I remember something happened because my students came in all in a tizzy that someone had slept with someone or done something like sexual with somebody else and I was like well it's okay because it's a guy and I'm like whoa we need to break that shit down because

yeah that that whole idea of certain behaviors are acceptable if you're male or not acceptable if you're female so we do know that when we look at um younger folks they do actually tend to embrace some of those more traditional gender roles which is fascinating because this is also the generation that's trying to break down some of the gender roles so it's like they're this generation coming up behind us is doing more to break down gender roles than our generation did but at the same time they're watching things which are reinforcing their traditional genders stereotypes so for me that's always really fascinating to watch yeah yeah i think that that is certainly one thing to keep in mind is that in these in these competitions and i'm gonna

i'm gonna keep calling them that because i think we need to remember that these are competitions there is an end goal and but it's to get married and to find the love of my life yeah for sure it's not for sure not about the fifty thousand dollars at the end or the one hundred thousand dollars at the end or the whatever amount of money at the end for sure is there cash on these things some of them shut the fuck up yeah yeah that part went over my i just thought it was like the relationship it was about love no no no no i never believed that but that it was about the relationship and then all the social media you know you become you get your 15 minutes of fame that way yeah yeah yeah the brand deals

afterwards and stuff like that the brand deals and stuff yeah which is all monetization i i mean i thought of it that way for the money i didn't realize there was an actual cash prize yeah some some of them have a sizable cash price and there was a format i believe this is before my my love violent um engagement enjoyment viewership um but i do believe at one point or in some of the earlier seasons that the winning couple is told that they that they've won and um and they would get an envelope they would each get an envelope and whoever opened the envelope with the money the dollar amount the prize amount had a choice keep it all for themselves or split it oh my god with their new partner i would love to see the waivers these folks are signing right

um so yeah okay sorry that this is the education yeah blowing dr c's mind today um yeah so the gender roles and the uh the expectation of the genders not just like the roles that you perform but certainly contestants who come in with a certain idea of how their their um counterparts yeah their their potential partners um should act based on their gender and we talked about this a bit in the body count episode but um inside on some of these shows especially love island it's like one of the hallmark challenge games is guessing the body count of of the contestants and the if a if one of the women contestants has a high number or a low number this that's the whole like the paradigm there is ridiculous as

well but if they have a high number or a low number that gets based on hive mind of the other group um then then they're seen they're seen and talked about a certain way and the reaction that um that the the group displays when they find out the who owns that number is ridiculous um um so yeah so i think there's there's a perpetuation of these hyper idealized roles and i will say in some in some seasons this year that i've watched um there's almost kind of the impact of the um i don't i don't want to say their names don't do it but the i won't the the toxic masculinity messaging that's out there that's impacting the younger generation that we're seeing as well so there's some prevalence starting to seep in from that into these shows and then

how they're the the flip side of that is that there is a lot of language and awareness of some of these tactics now so there's discourse post episode based off of how maybe a man was trying to manipulate or gaslight or some personality traits that he's displaying that are akin to certain personality disorders right so there's that i think the other impact um on on the younger viewers is um is the unrealistic body image issues that they perpetuate because there's a they're they're in various shades of undressed from the few things i've seen like they'll be at a pool or they'll bleed a thing and they're beaches and there are various shades of undress for those of you who are watching the video i'm having some very max headroom moments and i

apologize for that but we're going to keep recording because the content's important so if i'm giving you a seizure i apologize um yeah so it's it's i from what i have seen in like the random things that come through and thanks for totally throwing off my feed by sending me that by the way um yeah it's it's those traditional body research yeah right it's those traditional body images that we've talked about that can be so harmful to people of all genders um you know the very very thin but big boob big butt for women and then the six-pack abs and super muscular for men and so it's when that's all you're seeing which is the whole problem we've talked about with with what i mean we've been talking about this since the beginning episode like we have

this idea in this culture that sex is only supposed to be had and please note air quotes there is only supposed to be had by people who are young and beautiful and able-bodied and often white those are the images that we tend to see and when you have these shows i'm a i've never heard of a of someone who's disabled being on one of these shows i i don't know if you can i mean you don't watch them all but i feel like that would be a thing i would see yeah um so when you're you're shoving these ideas and again most people aren't sitting there thinking oh i'm watching this storyline and there they are in bathing suits and look at the unrealistic body types i'm looking at they're caught up in the drama i mean that's why people are watching but they're still internalizing

those messages about body size and body shape and i'm sure that at some point someone makes a comment about someone's body but i feel like that has to happen or like they're prettier than you or like they're more fit than you or more buff or whatever yeah so yeah we do we do know that people internalize those messages and it just with these shows there's so much going on that it's even hard to suss out like how many thousands of messages are they getting because they're getting the gender stereotypes they're getting the stereotypes around body size and shape and we haven't even talked about the things it's saying about relationships and and love like yeah that's next yeah so to add on to the the body image and self-esteem impact and i i also want to be clear that this doesn't

impact primarily younger viewers this can impact anybody who is feeling a type of way about how they look and how they've been received or noticed in out and about you know in their own communities Um, but on many, on many of these shows, and I feel like I have, my brain has a sensitivity to this. Um, but there is a popularity right now for certain, I'll say aftermarket, aftermarket enhancements. So like plastic surgery, Botox, fillers, um, BBLs, augmentation, breast augmentation, in any number of those things but to me especially right now um especially women seem to be doing going for a certain facial aesthetic and it's again this is just maybe a little bit of my neurodivergence but fillers lips frozen faces

it's and so so if you if you're watching that and you're seeing those um those contestants being heavily pursued engaged with all those things then there is a subliminal impact on that in that happens um that that is what is desired and then you look at yourself it can especially if you're prone to some kind of body dysmorphia or image issues you start to compare yourself to something that isn't um natural features yes naturally occurring features and and when we say that this happens across the lifespan this is a really big thing and and we do want to point out these are not just the messages that they're getting from these reality shows it's not like sorry competition shows it's not like if these competition shows cease to exist

then all such problems would go away because i'm dating myself just a wee bit but when um the last three star wars came out and um carrie fisher was on them the amount of hate she got for being old and looking old like there was really there was a lot of stuff that was being said both online and offline about people like how dare she let her get her like let herself go i thought she looked fantastic so we're saying this not just for it's setting expectations for younger women but for also and and men because they are also having the body image issues but also for older folks they're definitely not i think they did a bachelor with an older golden bachelor yeah i don't know how that went i don't know if they had them in the same amount of disrobing like i don't know

if they did bathing suit scenes but when you don't see yourself reflected in any way shape or form in the media that has an impact on you and uh that's a great point and i just also want to reiterate that largely these shows center white people and it always seems to be some great accomplishment when they have um contestants of color and and and then and then that's a that's a whole nother level but then there's you know the colorism that comes into play and then there's the microaggressions but that's a different type of podcast yeah but anyway um so the next piece that i want to get into about this and how it shapes our expectations uh no matter where you are in the lifespan is the unrealistic expectations around love and relationships. It's easy to

think that it's an idyllic situation and romance and that it was a whirlwind and it's like all those sparks and fireworks that were sold from the time that we're young. But it's a show. it's a, it's a hyper intensive environment, closed environment. It's not even in a day to day situation, or, you know, it's not, it's not like a, like a Real Housewives where it's supposed to be their day to day lives. It is, they've taken a cast, and they've dropped them somewhere beautiful, typically in the world so you know think Fiji or Spain somewhere in Spain or wherever and they're in an enclosed highly controlled environment they don't have any contact with people in their real life and so so that's something to keep in mind with the

air quote romantic gestures that you're seeing on this show and the timeline from when they meet to when they're like yeah let's be boyfriend girlfriend we're closed off we're exclusive and oh my gosh that's a whole nother thing love island wise exclusive does not necessarily mean boyfriend girlfriend so that's fun yeah but anyway that's another part many notes now i've just been doing nothing but taking notes but uh so that's one way the other um unrealistic expectation that i think it uh permeates is um how how we conflicts and arguments are are resolved and communication well if you keep stealing the stuff on my pad i'm gonna have nothing to talk about all right no that that for me was the big thing so one of

the things that that i hear a lot from people in the real world because this isn't i don't know where it came from it may have come from these competitive shows but this idea of like i'm gonna break up with them and see if they're gonna fight for me and we've talked about this on another show and how much that drives me insane um not clinically just for a moment uh but but it sets up this realistic expectation of needing to create drama instead of just communicating and then if someone really wants to be with you enough i'm not going to use the word love because it's not about that for a lot of these shows um i'm guessing um but if they really want to be with you they'll you know they'll they'll fight their way through the group to come find you and

they'll they'll do the things the big gestures outside of the fact that it's horrible mixed messages to send someone like i'm breaking up with you and they're like okay cool there's a there's a movie where there's a scene with that where he's like i'm breaking up with you and she's like okay cool like do you think you can move out today and he's like that's it like i don't know if you've seen that clip um but but we create this this idea of like this is how we're going to finally work through our barrier and they're going to prove to me how much they love me by how much they're willing to fight that's a horrible mixed message i'm telling you i don't want you to be in my life but secretly i want you to come save me or come get us or come get our

relationship that is a very confusing thing and we have talked in the past about how we don't really ever teach people how to have the hard conversations or talk about sex and relationships at all and now what they're seeing is that it's not about having conversations it's about these gestures or this intense moment that's somehow all going to work out. And that can be really disruptive to people if you are mimicking that in your real life. Yeah. Yeah. And going back to that normalization, it normalizes a level of manipulation in relationships and falsely equating it with the strength of the relationship if i push them away hard enough they should come back to me even more intensely that's that's not that's not healthy relationships

that is not healthy relationships i don't care how old you are that is not healthy uh yeah i'm getting claustrophobia thinking about it okay it's funny because when i work with high school students and you know we do all these things on healthy unhealthy relationships they can name these behaviors as unhealthy relationships but then they will turn around and talk about how they see them every day yeah so there's something getting lost in translation you took away my manipulation piece um i didn't take it away i set it up for you to augment it well and i think that one of the things that i've picked up on and again this is a lot of like because it's to me it's fascinating what people are getting out of these things, but I don't, I don't want to put in the

time and effort to watch them because I just don't. Um, so from, from your frivolity in a different way. Yes. And from you sharing these things with me. Um, so, but one of the things that I've seen in the research over and over and over is this idea of it creates a dynamic where there's a villain in a relationship, like the bad person. And I'm not going to say bad boy, because sometimes it is you know the bad girl who just you know wants to do what she wants to do but but it creates this villain relationship which is also a really unhealthy thing to kind of look at you really do want to have a relationship that's that's as balanced as it could be you know relationships are never 50 50 like there's a you know one person has more

social power one person has more financial power but i if we really want to see relationships work the ones that work well there's a balance of power there's a balance of interest there's a balance of respect and when you are already building a story where there is a villain character and the poor grieved person who just who just deals with this that is i don't want to say unrealistic because i see it all the time in my friends relationships um but it's not healthy and it's it's normalizing it it's normalizing unhealthy behavior and yeah if your goal is to have lasting lasting relationships which is not everyone's goal some people really are you know the i'm going to stay in this until it's no longer fun or i can't manipulate them but if your goal is to

have a long-lasting relationship this is not the behavior that's going to get you there right well and then in some shows love island particularly there's the dynamic within the villa with all the contestants and then there is the public vote so for those of you not watching dr sue had a what the fuck reaction this is why we're doing so now not only are you layering in your expectations what production wants and what kind of footage they want to get to craft an entertaining episode to keep viewers tuned in but now you've layered in public perception and um depending on whatever the vote is for that that week it is you know who's the most compatible who um who which female contestant do you like them so it's it's like a popularity

contest which also now becomes a part of the game so now it's not just about connections so now it's money what's connection money and public opinion and something that we'll get to to keep in mind is many of these people have their phones confiscated when they get to set and they don't know what's going on on their socials until they come out this could be like it's the horrific impact it's devastating yeah yeah seriously before we hit before we get there because we will get there um i do you want to so we've talked about kind of that normalization of jealousy and manipulation and it's it's what feeds into that normalization that we as consumers of this of these competitions

and frivolous entertainment um the things to remember are that producers need to keep the show engaging they need to keep us tuning in and so their job quite literally is to manufacture shit to get to provoke the cast members into conflict into not liking each other getting girls to not like each other to craft a story so that's the thing that's why we keep calling these competition shows and not reality shows because it's not fucking reality yeah yeah it is highly stylized real people so mainly people who didn't necessarily audition for a character they auditioned to get in the show but they weren't auditioning to play someone else they're playing a version of themselves but also some of them go in there being completely

unfiltered unguarded and and the producers again their job is to keep us tuned in and to keep us coming back episode after episode because that network's revenue is generated by us watching because that's how they sell to advertisers to say we can get these many eyes on your product during our show so it's much of what we watch is manufactured yeah the reactions perhaps not manufactured but the conflicts certainly the bringing up of old shit from weeks ago certainly so i think that's that's the um that's one thing to keep in mind about how this normalizes jealousy and manipulation because there is a motive to show those kinds of conflicts and those kinds of behaviors. And it's not necessarily the motive of the contestants. It is the motive of the people

that need to make money off of this show. Which leads me to two points. Thanks for not stealing these last two. I always feel like you're looking, you're cheating. I'm going to cover my work. Here's the thing about real relationships. They're a little bit boring. They're a little bit boring yeah not all the time and if you're in a very boring relationship please don't think that i was just like all right they're boring so you have to stay in this but the majority of time you're you're just exist you know you're existing with each other yes you're going out you're having moments and you're doing dates and you know you're having sex and you're doing sex play and like all these things are happening but that's not happening 24 7 in a relationship and a lot of what i hear

from folks is like well i don't know how to navigate like when it's not a spark all the time because it's not going to be a spark all the time nope and and no show so is this i mean no sitcom no no drama like we never see the in-between moments where they're just like i don't know what do you want for dinner i don't know what do you want for dinner i don't get take out yeah i don't care and then they like make you know they put i don't care on a plate like we don't see that and and i'm again i'm not saying i think relationships should be boring if you're miserable in your relationship i would encourage you to look at ways that you can fix that but the day-to-day is not high drama all the time no one could handle that that's just way too much

but what what we're seeing are those really heightened moments which then leads people to believe that that's what relationships are supposed to look like and that's not what healthy relationships look like no the other thing i just want to mention and then i think i'm out of thing oh i have one more thing that should be my tagline oh wait wait one more thing oh just one more thing just one more thing one more time um those romantic gestures that you see are highly fucking staged yes they are planned because these people can't plan themselves because they have no access to like i can't call up a florist and be like sources yeah right i i can't have chocolate delivered to this person that I'm interested in these things are so planned and it's one of the

things that I'm hearing now especially from some of the younger folks that are in my life of like I really want to go on a date but I can't afford it which I think is a very real thing right now with you know cost of living doing what it's doing and and so some of them have come up with some really interesting ways like they were sharing some interesting ways that they they have a date where they are keeping it as low budget as they can and some people are incredibly like oh that's super cool like you know doing something different and not just dinner and a movie but like doing something different getting to know you and other people are like that's just so cheap and and part of it may be that they have a standard and an expectation there is nothing

wrong with that if you're okay setting that standard and people not meeting it and you casting them aside for that that's that's great that's you like you do you yeah um but some of that comes from this idea of we're going to go to this you know beach and it's just going to be the two of us and no kids screaming down at the end and no like we got to figure out where to park perfect little two-person table with charcuterie and veuve cliquot and you know yeah and you don't have to sit there and be you know and say to the waiter because there is no waiter or waitress there's no service staff and be like hi i'm allergic to this thing is there is you know is this in it or like what do you have for a spot like all the things that we see when people

interact in real life you don't see that so I think sometimes we hold people to these really unrealistic expectations of grand gestures and I don't think it's just for dating like I want to be really careful here because a friend of mine just got engaged and did this and I don't know if they listen and and if you're listening I'm not talking about you um well maybe a little bit but like the proposal has become like a whole thing like oh my god people just like taping it and flying in family members which is also assuming the person's gonna say yes which i think is there's some consent for me that's some pressure yeah and i'm like so you are set like you are setting up this grand gesture to ask someone to be your

partner and and i think that that's putting a lot of pressure on people to come up with these grand gestures and it's putting a lot of pressure on people to like live up to this expectation and it's funny because i have a friend who is hoping to be engaged any moment who's like i would never say yes if it was done publicly like i find that horrific and terrifying and i would feel pressure and i would feel so much resentment i don't know if i could even if i said yes in the moment i don't know if i could say yes after i've been telling her partner that secretly i'm hoping that they got the message good yes um but i think it does i think it sets us up to live in this culture where we think that everything has to be this big grand gesture and sometimes we miss the

little ones and yeah and not that i'm saying a little effort but the little gestures that show how much i know you um yeah and we talked about this in a previous episode my friend who did not like getting flowers at work and like when they finally got the it was like a pastry when they finally got the pastry it was like oh like like one pastry but it was like oh they know me so well and again I'm not I am not trying to give anyone a free pass for like not putting in the work but there's ways of putting in the work without doing big grand gestures and I feel like what we see in these and I've seen them in the commercials I've seen them in the clips it's like this grand you know they're riding down this beach on a horseback and there's no one else there and they both

magically know how to ride a horse um you know except like this picnic like you were saying this perfect two-person picnic at the end that's not really it's not real life and so i and again if we can separate out hey that was really fun to watch versus i am now expecting this from my any potential partner i have or my current partner like that to me is where i'm not sure that we're able to really do that all the time yeah absolutely yeah it's that it's that ideally um idealization right of the of the romance and the fantasy the story the story the fairy tale what have you it's um again i'm just gonna say i'm gonna remind listeners it is highly manufactured and stylized for our entertainment it is not these shows these competition shows

are not meant to be manuals of how to be romantic they get they might spark an idea that's great but you don't have to duplicate it you don't have to replicate it especially if you don't have the means or the time you know um do they ever do product placement on those dates because that would just that would make the capitalism fantasy yeah i'm sure some of the shows do really the one that i have been sucked into is love island and they don't they are very careful about brands okay um i feel like that would be but what dream but they there i have seen like social media posts of the contestants while while they are in the villa um there's placement but none of them go i'm just gonna use my blah blah blah body scrub to get this glow for my date

you know i'm gonna have my coca-cola and like hold up the product right right yeah um there they do they do it a little bit more subversively i don't know if i'm happy or sad about that right right i mean um so yeah i i think the other thing is just being aware of the cycle the psychological effect if you're not kind of dissociating your reality from these competition shows like know that these shows are purely entertainment and it is not real life situations and and again we're not trying to blame just the competition shows i mean this has been a thing about like all rom-coms and disney movies and any stylized romance yeah like if you're holding out for that romance i mean great for you to want to hold out

for it as long as you can accept that that's probably not going to happen in real life and if you if it did and i'm wrong and you're living that life send us a message there's going to be a link in the show description for how you can reach out for show ideas let us know yeah absolutely let us know if we're wrong um but that's not usually what we see and then i have to go down the tangent sorry were you gonna you were laughing what were you gonna say yeah well i was just gonna also add that like if if you are watching one or any or many of these shows like part of consuming it responsibly responsibly is being aware of how it's impacting your behavior and and if it is impacting your behavior in if you're in a relationship if it's impacting how you're

speaking to your partner if you're if you find yourself starting arguments more or trying to elicit some kind of reaction maybe take a break from the shows yeah just just a little one you know just detox a little bit you can always binge and catch up yeah yeah and it's it's fascinating because when i first started doing hey dr sue way back before way back way back in the day it's actually been I think four years now I have to go back and check I think so so I was posting the hey Dr. Seo doing my questions 9 p.m eastern standard time but my sister yes she liked herself some bravo tv and so for a while on Wednesdays um we would do a different kind of post where she would watch whatever she was watching and send me a question like I saw this is this true or I saw

that can you explain it or i saw that and why would someone think that way and we would do you know i would having not watched the shows there was one time i had to watch it because i didn't understand the context um i don't remember where it was um but not everyone has that that ability to have that critical thinking time you know when we were trying to do it she was trying to do it just because it was you know something she was watching and interested in um and i was this like I saw this as a way to help people do this do this media literacy piece and say sorry folks I have no idea what this is going to sound like when we put it together I don't usually edit stuff mostly because I have no editing skills but my computer just froze so if you were watching there

was probably a huge continuation glitch if I was good with the sound you may not hear anything but I think I was talking about my sister yeah I think you were yes actually I know you were you were talking about a Wednesday episode yeah so so for me that was a way of doing media literacy Like these people on these shows were saying these outrageous things that were not based in fact. And so it gave me this opportunity to be like, hey, folks, if you watch this episode and I would tag the people in the show. Well, she would tell me who to tag and try to do some outreach that way. But most people don't have that moment of sitting back and being like, oh, this person was talking about having surgery on their vulva, like this person was talking about not eating certain foods because they thought it impacted their smell or their sexual performance. There's so much of this. And it's not just it's not just the competition shows. So I do want to make sure that we're owning that. Yeah. Yeah. I do want to take a huge turn to the left if I can.

i love when i say that because you have zero ideas and i'm asking you to consent for something so there might be a huge pause here as i we cut out yeah go for it one of the things that that drives me nuts about these shows is the absolute hypocrisy of what we allow straight people to do versus the line we're holding for folks who identify for the GLBT LGBTQ plus population yes because we're saying before we get into that if I could just pause you yeah before we take that left turn um um the one of the things that I want to highlight as as we're coming out of the hyper the hyper environment reality whatever of these of these situations is to also realize that when they have a successful couple come out of one of

these shows one of these competitions they market the shit out of that to make it seem like they this platform this approach is more successful than it is so if again if you're watching these and i'm one of them but it does require an awareness of how rare it is that something meaningful um and lasting and healthy i want to emphasize healthy comes out of winning or being platformed on one of these shows yeah so wanted to do that so let's let's take that left turn i don't see any oncoming traffic dr sue all right let's do it and and this isn't necessarily what the what this was about but to me this is all we can't have a conversation about these unrealistic expectations and all these things that shows are teaching us and then not point out the hypocrisy

because right now we're talking about possibly trying to eliminate same-sex marriage from a legal perspective we have been talking about for decades about how gay folks and lesbian folks are destroying the sanctity of marriage and we're highlighting shows where we're making it a game to find someone that you want to marry without meeting and we're highlighting shows and this is the thing this is the thing that pissed me off when you sent me the one like are you my first one we make all this big thing about the same how sex should be with love i don't necessarily believe all this by the way yeah go check out the episode about why dr sue hates the term virginity yeah um i i don't i when i'm saying this whole like you can't have sex without you know we're

pushing this sorry we're pushing this idea that that that love is supposed to be special and it's only supposed to happen in a special bond i don't actually believe that i think if you want to have sex have sex with whoever you want as long as it's consensual um but we promote that idea right isn't that what we tell people like wait for the right person yeah and then we're gonna say that you can meet that right person in like six weeks of some kind of television show so it's just the the sheer hypocrisy of like we're saying that some folks who are in loving committed relationships are destroying the sanctity of this concept that is both illegal and religious one and keep in mind they may not share their same religion as you but that when it comes to straight people we're okay

with them essentially auctioning off their virginity for a game show so right i just i just needed to point out that hypocrisy yeah and now that i'm angry that was going to be the follow up episode to this episode oh that's right well here we go i've set the stage so there's a teaser yeah i think um as as we're kind of rounding the corner on this on this topic what i'd like to get into is consuming this responsibility uh responsibly and um the impact on the contestants right because there there can be these calls uh contestants can get bullied online told they should kill themselves um because of a particular episode and and one contestant's fan base coming after them um it is important to remember that these are people and if your argument is well

they signed up for it they had no fucking clue what they were signing up for they might have had a romanticized idea or an ideal for applying to the show they knew they were signing up for a show yes they didn't know what they were signing up for as far as like the nuclear blast to their life yeah and so these are these the contestants are fucking humans well and they have put them episodes too but that's well that there is there is that there was the hideaway and what phrasing um but we we've got to remember that we are all trying to get through life Yep. And it is difficult for everyone in different ways from their own experiences. So having people willingly put themselves out there for the rest of our entertainment does not open them up to abuse, threats, bullying, stalking. it does not entitle anyone consuming this these entertainment platforms access to them in that

way and also remember that they are not being who they are in front of the camera could be completely different to who they are in their real life in their circle of friends with their family there may be pieces because that's your character your characteristics and your personality but they're on they're competing they are playing a game who i was when i played soccer games is completely different to how i perceive myself how i move through life with my friends and my family so them signing knowing what they signed up for one they didn't they didn't really know until they experienced it now people who repeat going back and are like okay yeah i'll do it again but that still doesn't entitle any fan to stalk bully threaten or go after anyone in their

circle as well not just the contestant but doxing them going after their families going after their friends we are not entitled to them yep i so that's one way there you go to consume responsibly is we are not entitled to these people yep and the other is just to check how you're interacting with people yeah check if you're trying to create drama for the sake of drama check your expectation and i'm not saying expectations are bad i want to make sure i'm being really clear about that if you set expectations for partners current or potential and you're like this is it like if they can't meet that standard then that's that's it and you're happy with that standard that's that's fine like that's

you're right i would just want to make sure that what you're doing is realistic um but also for me it's the communicate like how you're communicating with your partner yeah um and whether or not you're repeating the very unhealthy behaviors that we're seeing in these relationships yes um also also to hear for to be aware of how uh producers and editors are manipulating the narrative they have hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours of continuous footage of these people living together initially strangers over a very truncated period of time and they will edit and they will select who they're trying to especially with like love island where the public gets to vote who the winners are there could be

a tactic of production to to get the public to vote for a particular couple so being being aware of that and thinking critically and analytically about what what you're watching and sometimes it can be super obvious what editors and production are trying to do but a lot of times it's not yeah especially if you're not looking for it yeah and and it is again the editing and production of these shows is to manipulate an opinion and create storylines for the cast to keep us tuning in so and pay attention um the other thing the other thing I want to point out too is um looking at so when there's a diverse cast

and this kind of goes to the um what editors and production may be trying to do being aware of how the contestants of color are being treated working to recognize microaggressions against them um how other contestants are interacting with them how how their narrative is being edited and shown Like, just be aware of those things, because those also outside, in addition to what we talked about with impact on how you're navigating your relationship and your behaviors, this is another way that microaggressions and racism and sexism are perpetuated and continue to be normalized. so just really start to think analytically and if you have friends if you're if you're like dr sue and you have a charlie in your life who talks about these shows um if they are talking in concerning ways to you um hopefully some of this episode gave you some language and some things to recognize so that you can have a crucial conversation with with your friend and say

you know what maybe take a break yep because you you weren't talking like this before or you're talking like it more you know awareness analysis critical thinking all the things we want you to do in the rest of your life too yeah yeah all the things we talked about I mean we did this with the porn literacy it's just it's just this idea of critical thinking that we're not really teaching anymore and people don't really have that ability like I would love to do an entire I would not love to do this but because then I would have to watch it like I would love to have a college semester where we just watched a show like this and then spent the entire next class breaking it down and the impact those

things could have they're never gonna let me do that at my institution but like that would be fascinating yeah that would require me to watch it and that's just not my frivolity so it it is not um so yeah just the takeaways i'll i'll wrap this up this is this is fun for me because i'm the subject matter expert you are i don't know how much of a crown that is but anyway um being literate and thinking analytically and critically about what you're watching how the storylines are being developed having being aware and paying attention to how it it's impacting how you're relating to your partner and other people in your life like as dr sue gave an example if you're starting arguments just to start arguments and create tension you know be aware see see where

that's coming from could come from other things in your life but from a whole family history of yeah but if if watching these shows is um exacerbating it or bringing it to a surface that's something to be aware of realize that there are psychological tactics for these games that the producers are employing to get the contestants to interact in a certain way so that they have footage that is entertaining and watch these responsibly with all those things that we've talked about today. And I will again reiterate that just because these contestants signed up for these competitions does not entitle us to their lives or to tell them their worth, their value, or whether or not they should continue to exist on this earth because

they are humans and they were generous enough to put themselves out there so enjoy the entertainment do not bully or stalk or ducks thank you for coming to my unzipping talk dr c do you have anything that you know i think we're good and again we're not trying to tell you what to watch and what not to watch yeah i'm gonna keep watching all yeah whether it's It's this stuff, whether it's these competition shows or porn or like rom-coms or whatever, just, just have a better eye on how it might be impacting how you're viewing relationships, how you're viewing yourself and then also relationships. Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely. All right. Well, everyone, I want to thank you for joining us on this episode of Unzipping Taboos. We hope today's sparked some new thoughts. will open up conversations worth having and please remember that your curiosity is the key to breaking down these taboos um and embracing a healthier understanding of sex relationships and just how we are how we consume society and stuff and stuff and things if you enjoyed the show please subscribe leave a review share it with someone who might need to hear this or any other

episode that we have. If you've got a question and, and let me back up any other episode that we have, because we have over 50 now. Um, and if you've got a question or topic you want us to dive into, please reach out to us via the link in the episode description. We want to give a huge thanks and shout out to jackandjilladult.com for supporting Unzipping Taboos. And don't forget that if you're in the market, um, go to jackandjill.com and you can get 20% off your order using the code UNZIPPING20. JackandJillAdult.com. We need to...

Yeah, sorry. Sorry, I thought I said it first. JackandJillAdult.com. Yes. Yes. And we want to give a very special shout out to Allie O'Brien for incredible theme music. Thank you so much, Allie.

And until next time, keep the conversation going. Keep unzipping those taboos. And everyone, take care.