Unzipping Taboos: Candid Conversations about Sex - Unzipping Romance: Breaking the Mold of Unrealistic Expectations

Episode Date: December 24, 2025

In this episode of Unzipping Taboos, we dive into the pressures of modern romance—like pickup lines, “the spark,” and all the ways we’re told it’s supposed to go. Spoiler alert: these expectations usually lead to awkward moments, not magical connections.We talk about why being yourself (instead of relying on memorized lines) is way more effective, and why respecting each other’s intentions—whether you’re looking for something casual or long-term—is so important. For most, authenticity over performance wins every time.Next, we unpack the spark—what it really means, why it’s often overrated, and how emotional and intellectual compatibility can be more important than initial attraction. We also dig into how past relationships can shape our present ones—and why it’s more important to like the person you're with than to chase after that initial rush.In the end, we remind ourselves—and our listeners—that real connections don’t need a script. No grand gestures, no perfect pickup lines—just authentic, respectful interactions. It’s about being true to yourself and letting things unfold naturally.If you have a story, thoughts and/or a topic or question for Dr. Sue and Charlie please share your ideas here:  ⁠Show suggestionsIf you want to ask Dr Sue a sex question for the weekly Q&A you can submit it here: Ask a question

Hey, everyone. Welcome to Unzipping Taboos, candid conversations about sex with Dr. Sue and Charlie. We're here to explore the questions you've always been curious about, but don't always feel comfortable asking out loud. No judgment, no shame, just open, honest conversation. So zip down and let's get candid before we get started. We have now partnered with jackandjilladult.com, one of the top online adult stores. And because you're here with us, you get 20% off with code UNZIPPING20. So go check them out. Buy yourself a little something or your partner. Anyway, now that I've got that business out of the way, today we're going to be unzipping the spark, the meet cute, the pickup lines, all the things that we're told

will signify a true and lasting romantic connection. I love your face when I said that. I know. I feel sorry for the people who didn't see that big eye roll. So before we get into all of that, I am here with Dr. Sue, you just heard. Hello, Dr. Sue. Hello, Charlie.

How is it going? It's going well. Good. Good. I'm glad to hear that. Would you like to give our listeners a little bit about your background before we unzip the cutes and the like? Sure. I'm trying to figure out how to tailor my intro to that. Ah, I got it. Okay. Um, so I have a PhD in human sexuality education and I mostly do the professor thing so i teach um i publish i speak at conferences i do that academic thing um but

then i also do a lot of work in the community and i think that's where a lot of this comes up for me um is some of the community events i do so um i will basically talk to anyone who wants me to talk to them about sex um and so i'll get like young kids who are like asking about relationships But I also am getting it a lot from older populations who are newly dating and or newly redating or newly single. I guess that's how I want to phrase that. Yeah. And they're like trying to figure out what to expect.

And so I do a lot of work in the community, sometimes like very official capacity with like doctors and social workers. And then a lot of times I'm just talking to whoever needs it. And I think we all kind of need some guidance sometimes on relationships because it's hard to sort some of this out but that's my intro um if you already know charlie or don't know charlie which feels like it should be a crime not to know charlie um charlie is our curious co-host who is always ready to get into all the taboo stuff that just we as a society don't talk about openly enough yet can i be a little optimistic because it's like the end of the year

yes please it'll be it'll be gone by january one don't worry i'm gonna call that the charlie effect But you should tell us more about you other than the effect you just have on us. Well, I am excited about today's episode because we are going to be getting into the things that I have always loved to challenge and unpack and deprogram from, and that is social conditioning, which that'll make sense as we get into this conversation. So I'm Charlie, Dr. Sue, and i have been friends for many years now are you counting in your head when you do that because every time you say it i'm counting in my head a little bit but then i'm also thinking when do i add the um second many to to that statement next year there we go um we have been friends for many

years and one of the things that we picked up on right away from each other was the comfort of talking about uncomfortable things and challenging, challenging the notions. And yes, many times we agree, but even challenging each other when we don't agree. And that's always, that's always a fun conversation as well. I have also from some of my earliest memories, been a person who challenges the expectations put on myself as a girl and woman in society. um you know just kind of thinking like why can't i just because you're a girl isn't a good enough reason to me i feel like i could do the things or i should be able to do the things or i should be able to have access to learn how to do the things um so so that's me just kind of out there

picking away at things so meet cutes spark god the cacophony of emotion that one feels when they meet their air quote person not to say that sometimes we don't have those moments i've had those moments where like yes i see someone and i'm like i need to talk to you but i also don't want to talk to you so i don't want to i don't want us thinking those things don't exist because they do for some people so i should probably stop rolling my eyes as hard as i was i'll also probably give myself a headache if i keep rolling my eyes that hard yeah um but yeah should we talk about how we me and this topic yeah yeah let's let's do that how do we get to today's episode dr sue so i for the hey dr sue for those of you don't know because i totally skipped this part

in my intro um one of the things i'd like to do is provide education for anyone who wants it even if they're not in my classroom. And so people submit anonymous sex questions online. I will post the link in the description for how to do that. And I got a question from a cis college male who wanted to know how to pick up women, specifically with opening lines. Being very far from college age myself, i i decided to make it a class activity with their full consent like my students they knew what i was doing they opted into it i mean i didn't really give them a lovely choice on the other side i think it was like matching definitions or something like that um and so

and so we did it we separated people by gender you know wholly owning the fact and i want to make sure that we do this and if you're a man it doesn't mean you're only picking up women and women don't only date men so i want to make sure that that heteronormative bias is owned and i i mean i just i watched some i watched the guys struggle which didn't surprise me and then they started with the cheesy pickup lines like the ones i thought were gone like or i'd hoped were gone um and and really what it came down to i mean i don't i don't want to get too much into this because i don't what it really came down to the women were like just just be yourself did you like big surprise um and then we flipped it because they really wanted to and uh the guys

were like you could just say hi and that would be enough and but i think they they're living in these worlds where they really think that they have to come up with these funny or horribly atrocious or I mean it is it's awkward we should own that it is horribly awkward to go up to someone that you do not know and try to start a conversation for some folks I struggle with that I know some people do that like that's their thing they can talk to anybody and so maybe having the line helps I mean I could see I could see how it would be you're owning that you're gonna use a cheesy pickup line and it's kind of like your way of owning how awkward it is by by offering something

funny I can see I can make space for that I well then and then we're like well we should turn this into an episode because I didn't get a chance to ask my students because we just didn't have enough time in class like where did you learn that you have to have these lines or an approach I mean one person was talking about doing card tricks which I'd be all into like you you come through the deck of cards and i'm like yes teach me the trick when you're done though um but like i i mean they were really working at one point they were doing a skip like they had a whole thing worked out and i'm like and so i wanted to get into how how did you learn this and where did you learn this from so we decided we were going to do an episode on this and then in prep for the

episode i went on my social media and asked my friends for their cringiest pickup lines and there were there were a few they were bad yeah yeah and again we didn't get into the like where did you learn these things um but i think that's what we want to talk about is like we i think we have this idea that you need to have a line or there needs to be a meet cute where like you grab one glove they grab the other you start to walk away and then you look into each other's eyes and now it's 30 years late like it's just we don't have to have that kind of staged moment and then that started blowing up some of the other things I know we're going to talk about but that's kind of how we got here yeah that was helpful thanks you're welcome I mean that's that is how we got

here so what can we share some of the lines yeah let's ask them so one was like you lick your finger and then you touch your clothes and their clothes and say hey we should get out of these wet clothes um i like your shirt is made from boyfriend material i'm trying to find these sorry hold on there's the ever classic are your feet tired because you've been running through my mind all day um did it hurt when you fell from heaven why don't you sit on my lap and we can talk about whatever pops up no i actually heard this because i used to do this in another class and then we it was like the first day activity like pair up with someone you don't know and come up the worst pick up lines because it's a great way for us to break the ice um are you from tennessee

no do you not know do you know this one no you're the only 10 i see um there are a million stories in the naked city let's be two of them there was one and i almost don't want to tie i almost don't want to share this because it actually did turn into like a long loving marriage that they're still in happily married with kids but um apparently a friend of mine was um at a bar and some like rando was talking to her and it didn't go well and she finally got away from him and this guy comes up to her and was like hey like what did that guy do wrong and now they're married so that worked but it didn't it wasn't about the line it was about the guy like it wasn't about yeah yeah i mean so like

in that instance, I can see why that worked because it was curiosity. And then it was leading into a conversation, which probably made it feel less like this guy just wants to fuck me. Right. Which may have been part of the case, of course. She didn't put that in her social media comment if that happened that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm filling in some, some blanks here. I'll own that but but to me if if a guy had approached me or a person had approached me after seeing me shake someone that I'm not that I'm not interested in talking to and their approach was tell me what they did wrong then then that's that's unique to me that's it that's not cheesy and that's not a that's a unique approach yeah so I feel like I mean as I don't finish a single

sentence there i i want to own that it is there's a place for some of these lines that aren't horribly awkward or like cringy because some of them you're just like oh no no please don't no you can take that and walk away um but it is hard for a lot of people to go up to a stranger and and not know how that's going to be received and because of media and social conditioning we have gotten this idea in our head that we can't just go up and be ourselves that we can't just go up and be our genuine like i'm gonna say something and maybe it'll come out weird or maybe i'll stutter or maybe i won't finish three sentences in a row but like if we don't have the perfect entry into the conversation that it's not going to go anywhere and we get that a lot

from social media i don't want to say social media and just say media because i don't yeah say media yeah because i and i certainly think that's a piece of it i think another piece of it is that fear of rejection. And so if you go in with a cheesy pickup line, then that's not really you that's being rejected. It's the cheesy pickup line that everybody kind of groans at or rolls their eyes at. So then it's not really about rejecting you. It's you can build a different kind of story if the person doesn't respond well to it. For those of you, yes, to all of that. And for those of you not listening, every time we bring up a cheesy line, we like we're doing this like weird like like we know we're not serious kind of thing because that's what comes with it

it's a whole persona that i've now put on yeah i'm like oh here's my you know i'm doing it right now yeah it's it's a layer that you it's a shield yeah almost yeah yeah so so i think to the has purpose no i just i just want to own that like there's a space for it because we've been taught that you have to have that but it's hard to walk up to someone strange and ask a question and try to get involved in a conversation with them yeah so in that exercise in the classroom what were the things you kind of uh not joked about it but in passing said you know like the woman said you know just like be yourself did they give any specifics of because i can say um the times that i have been approached in the wild

i feel like we should have some like some some some noises in the background there god the approaches that have that have impacted me have been um have been just something about like, it's something that felt genuine. It's something that showed curiosity, didn't show an ulterior motive where I had to do some quick calculus of like, okay, then how am I going to have to shake this person if I engage with them? And are they dangerous if I reject them? And all of the calculus that some of us have to do in those situations. But sometimes it was just eye contact and you have a lovely energy or something like that and it didn't feel cringy it felt like hey you just you're a person that stands out to me in this crowd

and I just thought you should know that and then and then it was it was my choice to continue to engage or I could have just said thank you and moved on you know yes and I have the notes but they're on the floor. So keep talking for a second while I dive for them. I should have had them on the desk. So when Dr. Sue disappears, don't worry, everyone, she hasn't been taken. So the other pressure that I think we buy into that can keep us from really finding or allowing ourselves to be nice is this pressure to have an instant spark. Yes. And this instant connection with someone and that you're going to know when you know. And there are pieces of that that can be true, but you don't know if that's ever true until you're years down the relationship with that person that you felt that spark with. So when we were coming to this episode, part of that conversation was is that spark or that that instant feeling a lot of times that's mostly a physiological reaction.

Yeah. Like chemistry. It's like purely chemistry, not intellectual chemistry. It is pheromonal. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. and then and then you have this pressure on yourself to keep that spark but that thing was fleeting and now you may be involved in a relationship that should have never gone as far as it did because you are trying to hold on to a chemical reaction that may have faded so before we get to the spark or finish getting to the spark since i did yeah dive for these so so hold on um oh i forgot about that one that one was bad um are you done playing eye tag with me was very quickly rejected by the women i completely forgot

about yes yes i remember you telling me yeah um so their suggestions were be confident but not cocky like and not actually we know the science behind that and that actually goes for all genders it is it is not just men approaching women um being confident and and sure of yourself is actually something that people of all genders usually respond to being a cocky asshole is usually something not most people will respond to yeah some people do so be confident but not cocky be respectful um eye contact eye contact eye contact eye contact um and it was really about some kind of something like you were saying like your energy drew me across the room some kind of compliment but that one that wasn't too cringy like there was one it was like um i've

been staring at your eyes and they're like okay that's just weird um so so a compliment on on something about them and it's funny and I don't know if it's an age thing because these are traditional college age students I don't know a lot of them are like you know just just tell me I look good whereas I think for some of the older women it's like say something about my personality because like there's so much more to me than that um yeah but that was it it was be genuine be authentic they did use both those words uh be confident but not cocky and maintain eye contact and just talk to them like how was your day was good um how wait what's cooking good looking was not nice jeans they look better on the floor um so yeah that was it it was really just be

respectful be respectful was a big one even though they didn't use those language that language but be genuine and then when we flipped it you know the ladies were also trying to come up with like i don't know how to approach a guy i've never done it and i'm like the first time you approach a guy who's never been approached he's gonna be like whoa someone's approaching me um it was they this is what they said eye contact be confident be funny don't try too hard um compliment them make them laugh and just be easy to talk to but a lot of it was funny because so i had them writing this on cards that's what i'm sorting through and one person just wrote say hi

that was all the guys needed say hi um so yeah it and it was it was so similar between the two that i actually had to separate them out and i was storing information because when i first went back to the piles i was like wait which which pile was i can't tell yeah because the some of them were so similar until i got to like the the really bad pickup lines i didn't see any of those from the women but yeah so yeah so those those were the it was it was really just being yourself because the thing is that who you are is going to be the person they're making a decision of whether or not they want to spend time with you um for the rest of the evening or maybe past that evening if that's a goal of yours but if they can't get a sense of you when you walk up to them

the only thing they have to make their decision on is the is the line but if they can get like if you're looking them in the eye and not like staring them in the eyes but if you're maintaining contact and being like hey you know I saw you dancing looks like you've got some good whatever like yeah the more genuine you are the easier it will be to continue the conversation because I think that's most people's goals it's not just to be like hi here's a line okay now I'm leaving it's and maybe not for forever but maybe at least for an hour and yeah and so you have to be yourself so that was the big thing well and it goes that also goes into this notion of the spark and all of that stuff. If you, you being yourself is the foundation of what that relationship is going to

be. So if you're already hiding behind, hiding behind something, and I just, cause I said a little bit ago, you know, the, um, the pickup lines can be a shield, but if you continue to build that shield and start to make yourself someone you're not eventually that shield drops yeah and and then and that's that can potentially be like oh you wasted my time because you're not the person that I thought I was engaging with I do want this connection yeah I do want to own that for some people it's like I don't actually want to get to know you I want to get in your pants and so i need our conversation to last long enough to get you into a back hallway or an alley or a bathroom or a car or wherever like a dorm room or book to get you to consent and then one

of those places if you choose yeah so i do want to make sure that i'm not i don't want to i don't want to sell this idea that we have that everyone's looking to meet and build this no this relationship sometimes you are going to put on a line because you don't want the person to know you because that's not your goal. Your goal is to do things with that person. And that's it. So I do just want to make sure we're owning them. Yeah, no, that's it. That's a great point. Because there that that's the other thing too, is what is your motivation? If your motivation is to always be honest with yourself about your motivation, because then that's going to come through authentically. If it is, if your motivation is to hook up, be honest with yourself that it's

to hook up so that you're not putting off uh an air to the recipient of your desires that this is more this could be more than a one-night stand if it's gonna be a one-night stand or a couple night stand just own it fucking fine yeah just say you want to fuck yeah i would almost respect that more than tell me what you do who are you just hey you i really like the way you look i want to fuck you yeah yes no maybe like how do we right yeah um so the spark yes so i don't think i talked about this in an episode on dating so just forgive me if i repeat myself for a bit i have a friend who's newly single and she's met this really nice person he's he's nice he's respectful he's nice he respects boundaries he says he's gonna do things

and he shows up when he's gonna do them and they from what she tells me they talk easily and they talk for hours and and then she was talking to me a few weeks ago maybe longer than that she was talking to me recently and she's like but there's no spark like but you talk for how like wait are you really willing to walk she didn't by the way but like are you really willing to walk away from someone who makes you happy who respects you who you enjoy spending time with just because there's no hollywood spark and she was she was really like looking for that thing um and i told her i thought she was an idiot her friends told her she thought they were an idiot they're still together um but she was generally like well i didn't feel a spark so it can't be the thing

and then i get that i do i do a lot of work with folks who work with senior citizens and i had someone say i'm talking to a woman right now that had been looking for advice and her she said something like i'm in my 70s do i even deserve a spark and i'm like oh honey honey first of all there is nine but also you deserve whatever it is that you want um it's it's hard to find and i worry i don't want to knock it like if you've if you've got that spark and you had it with your partner and you still see moments of that and it's what helps keep you together through the hard times fantastic yeah if you have a partner and you've never felt that spark but you love your partner and you make it through the hard times great but i i just don't

want people walking away from something that could be great just because it doesn't fit this Hollywood sparkle of some sort. Well, not just Hollywood, there are times too, where that spark that you're looking for is likely some trauma response from toxicity in a previous relationship. And so you don't know how to be in a relationship where that doesn't exist. So there's that piece to like understanding what you mean when you say there's no spark. Is it that you're not physically attracted to them, emotionally stimulated by them? Like you have to unpack, like really sit with yourself when you're saying there's no spark. What do you mean and what are you looking for?

Because again, I've had several conversations with several different friends where they're with a great person. It just, you know, I just couldn't get there. It just wasn't there. well friends it's likely because you never resolved the trauma from the past relationship and the the toxic emotional habits that you learned to tolerate and so because this person is not as highly dramatic or problematic and there's not constant tiny explosions in the relationship doesn't mean that it's not a great relationship for you or for you to be in you know yeah that's right i was taking mad notes right there because you said two things that i think were really

important um the emotion i didn't get it was it emotionally stimulated or intellectually stimulated oh i got it right yeah um and then physical attraction if you're not physically attracted to a person and that's going to make it hard for you to be physical with them and that's a thing for you that's legit yes absolutely absolutely legit it does not mean as long as you two are okay with it does not mean that you can't be something else and i know that every guy every straight guy who's listening to this probably just rolled their eyes and went friend zone um or see we could do it i could have multiple partners i just i could stay with you yeah um but that's a real legit thing like if being physically intimate is important to you

and you're like i just don't feel like i would want to don't try to talk yourself into that you can't it's not going to happen and you're both going to be miserable at the end yeah because it's not fair to the other person if you're trying to talk yourself into something with them right right yeah um and the other was the emotional stimulation like if that's important to you and you're not getting it it is okay to be like i'm not getting this piece of it because it's about what's important to you i mean i don't want to ruin anyone's like story but when we look at most couples who've been together for a while the physical side of it dies off now that there's no sex although sometimes we do see that we see couples that are together

for decades and it's like yeah i think we had sex like last month maybe it it becomes less important for many couples not all i know some couples who are out there like every day um but at the end if some of that physicality dies off which is very common if you're left with someone that you don't want to look at or you're left with someone who does not stimulate you i know you said emotionally but i'm going to throw it intellectually because that's important to me um then that probably doesn't have a long-term rate of success a rate of long-term success put those, we're going to play scrambles now. So now you just got to put my words in the right order. Um, but again, that may not be the thing you're looking for. You might just want to be

like, I'm just looking for something to keep me busy during the cold season. I'm just looking for something during the summer. I'm just looking for something that makes me feel validated because I just got out of a long-term relationship and I want to feel attractive and loved. Cool. Just own it. Just know you've got to know yourself and you've got to know what you're looking for. Yeah. That, that, I think that's the biggest piece when you get back, when you get down to it is, is being able to, to sit with yourself and really understand your expectations and your motivations on a different level. I'm not saying you, you can wholly understand them ever, but if you have a good handle on, on, okay, I'm going to go out tonight and I am going to look

for a one night stand. Great. Or I'm going out because I want to increase the chances of me meeting my future person. You know, understand just really, and it's hard because it's hard to go inward and, and unpack a lot of the expectations that we've been fed around meeting the person around one night stands especially women um and in one night stand culture because it implies something different for us we're not we're not allowed to participate to be the um i want to say aggressor there's a different word i'm thinking of but the instant the initiator in hookup culture that's not our that's not our role air quote in hookup culture and so so really unpacking and getting to a place where you understand and comfortably like

maybe I do want a romantic relationship but not right now and if that happens that happens and if it doesn't it doesn't um but here's here's what I want to do and here's how I'm gonna go about it um because if if you're honest with yourself then showing up authentically becomes an easy byproduct of that it's not something you have to think about it's not something you have to like manipulate and plan out and yeah and it is a I'm I was laughing when you were saying that because I was just doing an activity last week in class and we needed a we needed a word for a man whore I'm like do we not have a word for this and like no not yet so that's why I was laughing at you nice not at you but at the concept because it is very different for women who who do initiate

those no, no strings attached kinds of relationships. And so it could be hard. It's hard for some people to be like, yeah, I just want to get laid. I don't really care if they know how to spell their own name. I just want to bang someone hot tonight. If that works with you and it works with your values and it works with your goals, fantastic. You don't need a pickup line. That in and of itself is a very clear line on what you can say or not say i mean you could do that all with hand gestures sorry i don't know she's staring off into space visualizing what those hand gestures might be but some people only listen so we can't do an episode of just hand gestures but yeah uh well i think the other danger of this continued

notion of a spark or a meet cute and i think we've touched on a little bit is if you had that spark when you first met or the first couple of times you were together um and then you build a relationship based on that um there is that that expectation to maintain it and that can that can really impact a long-term relationship because it can hinder honest communication because you're always chasing something that wasn't meant to be be there the whole time it was meant to move you guys across the floor to talk to each other yeah explore yeah there's a there's depending on which theory you're looking at there's a couple names from limerence is one of them it's that euphorical maniacal like i compare it to being in a disney movie like everything is perfect and the birds

are singing and and it doesn't last it can't it just can't because eventually you're going to get tired of it eventually you're like just stop texting me i have things to do or like i have a life i can't spend every minute with you or but if we don't know any better and i don't think i don't i'm trying to come up with examples from media current media because i have some ones from older media um where it looks more like a relationship looks if you don't know that if you don't know that that's gonna die if you don't know that it's okay to be like oh my god i need a break from you for like five seconds then you think the relationship is over and it's doomed and you moved on and you may be moving on from something that could have been fantastic for you

but yeah that phase does not last when we look at the research and i don't i don't usually get into the research i feel like i have to because when i say these things in my class we're like oh you're just a pessimist and i'm like no i'm a realist um so when we look at relationships and what sort of and what we see in long-term couples and again that may not be your goal you may not want to be in a couple hundred you might want to be open all those caveats are always in the back of what i'm saying um what we find is that liking the other human being as the human being they are and choosing to be together are more important than that spark long term liking who you are when we look at the reasons why relationships fall apart it's because of things like contempt

like just like the person for who they are and don't be a dick i feel like that's been our summary statement for quite a few episodes now and just don't be a dick yeah and just don't be a dick and that's life man um but then can we stay on the media stuff because i had one more thing yeah yeah absolutely so at some point it became the thing to go over the top for like everything and it was like promposal is that the right word like it doesn't even flow naturally um and i know that came straight from quote reality television um this idea that if you couldn't just ask someone to prom like it had to be a whole thing and i mean we see it now with gender reveals right like i have seen gender reveals bigger than weddings like it is this

majorly everything has to be this big event because we're chasing that feeling and it's like you said we're not we're never going to find it again it's it's gone and it could have been replaced by something better um but this over the top and i've seen this i have seen this in the real world with kids i know in their teens and even some of my students like they tell me about these major like they asked me to do this and like they they were doves flying there were no doves i'm exaggerating just a little bit but like it was this whole big thing and and i don't know when that became a big deal in media but i think it's just getting promoted and then we started seeing with engagements like it wasn't enough to just ask someone to be with you it had to be

with your 15 photographers and this huge and for those of you who've put in that effort i'm not trying to knock what you're doing i have concerns about the consent involved in that um i have a friend who very who very much said if if my boyfriend at the time ever proposed to me in public that would be the end of the relationship and he proposed in public and that was the end of the relationship she didn't want that kind of attention and so I do see it kind of getting into other places in life now that's not just about promposal that word would never flow off my tongue but it's become about gender reveals and the engagement and the that like everything just has to be bigger and bigger and bigger not that things shouldn't be celebrated not that you

shouldn't feel like the center of attention on a big day but i think we also have to rein in expectations because we have pressure yeah there's a lot of pressure for the person organizing it but also if you're with someone for if you're with someone and whether it's a prom thing i'm just never saying that it's a prom thing or the like that's great but what are they like every other day of the week yeah fighting every other day of the week and then they do this grand gesture you like you're you're getting what you want but I'm questioning how healthy that is if you're willing to overlook all the other stuff in the middle right and again I don't know you I don't want to judge you but it's what you were talking about that toxicity that we sometimes

bring and that dysfunction we bring from prior relationships so yeah I just and that's my value to me I'd rather have someone who's like I can rely on them I can count count on them they can have great conversation and that's what it's like the six days a week and maybe that one day there's a big event but it's to me it's those times in the middle but it's just knowing what you're looking for and and the why and that can be hard to do like you said that kind of self-reflection is really difficult it is but it's worth it it's time well worth it yeah you are an investment that you deserve yeah you deserve to invest in yourself and and find the things that make you happy and the values that really resonate with you. And the other thing there is that changes

throughout. We are dynamic beings. And I can tell you the me 20 years ago, what she thought versus me today. A little bit different. You know, I've not known you that long. So I can't that is true that's why there's there's that's why there's only one many yeah in our in my introduction but that's that's the thing to make space for with yourself and with maybe um your partner that you've been with for a long time is that we all evolve and and it is if you're in a long-term relationship part of that um that air quote spark could just be staying curious about the other person and look if it's if it if the changes are they've become toxic or abusive like don't stay curious about that do what you can to stay safe um but but if we're talking about like

relationships where that isn't present um just staying curious about yourself and about the person that you're in a relationship with that um that can ignite a different a newer spark other than the i i my pheromones smelled their pheromones and i wanted them to meet but charlie how am i supposed to know that if i've been with someone for two decades i'd be curious i don't know i haven't been with someone for two decades so i don't have the fucking answer the people i've been with for two decades or more are my closest friends and those work because i I don't have I am curious about their life and how they're evolving and how their their goals

and their dreams and the things the experiences they're chasing have changed over the two decades that I've met them that's why and so if I think if more of us can make space in our expectations of a romantic connection for that kind of curiosity it becomes more sustainable and there's space for the evolution of each other and what that means of each of you together if that's what you want so it's communication again i mean we've talked about this a million times it's listening when your partner's talking it's listening about what it's what's exciting them and who are they and they're we're different than we were when we got together a decade ago two decades ago but like what are they saying like what are they what are they getting excited

about and it's also okay and i know this is very vulnerable and being like hey i i don't know what i can do to make you feel loved excited happy you know i know what used to work i'm not sure does that still work right and and i know i i know how vulnerable i've had that conversation and i know exactly how vulnerable that can be um and it can be really scary but if this is someone that you want to spend time with and this is someone who's important to you you'll figure out ways of doing that um and i would i i would challenge i know you're like i haven't been with someone for two decades you have you have those i know about those friends yeah i i've heard those stories and so we can i for people who like oh i can't figure out how to make it work look at your

long-term friends yes you have some you may not just because of time and distance and moving and things like that but if you do like think about how you know who they are and what makes them happy even if you've never said those words you have figured something out i would hope that some people just do the same thing over and over and over again and that works for that relationship yeah i do want to say one more thing which we didn't talk about but it came up so we don't blame you it wasn't on our pre-show stuff what can i wander yes one of the things that drives me nuts about media and current storylines although i've seen i don't know when the media changed because i i know start like when we think about when harry

met sally it all came down to the friendship right and like i think we can think of movies that highlighted those other pieces but i think one of the things that we're seeing whether it's in media or books or whatever it is that we're getting our information from this idea that our partner a romantic partner has to be our everything and I think that is way too much pressure to put on one human being like you should you should have other people to fill other roles we can't I don't think that we can expect one person to be our everything they may be a great match physically they may be a great match in terms of day-to-day living but maybe that's not the person you go to first when you're having an emotional challenge and I think friends are

really important i think those other relationships serve a function and i do worry sometimes when people get in relationships like this is my everything and they shut off everything else that is way too much pressure to put on one human being and the odds are that's not going to survive um so yeah just like those outside relationships and i think there are some great shows about friends and the role of friends i think sometimes that gets lost um yeah but our our other person can't be our everything and if i'm wrong tell me send me comments send me a message direct it to charlie if you have a person that is your everything great that is that is the exception not the rule yeah and that's just that's just human human it is it is human because when

going back to looking at your friend at at your friends you have you likely have a variety of friends and you have certain friends you will confide in certain levels of things and you have other friends that are travel friends or other friends who are you know unique adventure friends or something like that or like my my people who get career career friends my work friends or the people who've known my family so long that they know all the bullshit and I can cut through the why is this happening and just get to oh my god this is what happened with my family this week so yeah i we do and i thank you for pointing that out that's where i was trying to get to yeah you got there first thank you that's why we're friends exactly there it is

so i yeah i would think that um to begin kind of wrapping this up is it is it's communication it's communication and reflection and honesty not just with the recipient of your desire or affection or cheesy pickup line um but you as well yeah your internal self because again you deserve your investment yeah and and we're not saying there's anything wrong well I shouldn't say we I'm not saying there's anything wrong with these movies and these tv shows where it promotes that as long as because I mean I want to watch stories and storylines that don't take a lot of brain space and those are great yeah yeah but what do you had a name for that when you watch reality television what do you call it brain rot brain rot yeah those things are great sometimes

I just want us to make sure that we're realizing the impact of if any that it's having on us and our relationships that's that's I'm not saying these things need to disappear I'm not saying they're horrible yeah they're entertainment and that's what we have to remember it's entertainment yes and it's and that's the literacy piece that we've talked about in a couple of past episodes is having media literacy and being able to recognize the motivations for why why a certain movie or show is being put out by a certain studio or whatever i mean if you look back if you look back at classic cinema you can tie some of the the content I mean everything is a bit of propaganda and and I don't mean propaganda pejoratively it is just that what I say in my

introduction and in almost every episode it is the conditioning of us in the society that we live in and there are times where you just have to look at it as objectively as you can and say oh that's I enjoy this, but that's not how I'm going to necessarily run my life because it's entertainment. It is. And to be honest with you, as much as I understand that if you're looking for a long-term relationship, it takes getting through the hard moments and it takes, you know, the boring stuff of just years and years of getting through this. I ain't watching a show about that. I'm not. Like that is just not, that's never going to be the thing I turn on to like watch, you know, year 37 of someone's marriage as they just go through the humdrum stuff.

Like, yeah, it's not. Although there was a, there was a movie and I'm never going to find the name of it where it's like suddenly the main character realizes that it's not about the spark. It's about that person being there and then they have this whole moment. And I feel like we never have those. I don't think we have the storylines the same way we now. now it's all about the spark and then when it becomes it's not those like internal aha moments yeah because when you look at a lot of these things like the rom-coms and even the the relationship reality shows there's a cutoff when you stop seeing having access to that couple

and so you don't know what happens rom-coms we never know the cinderella story we don't see prince charming and cinderella married 10 years later arguing who's gonna take out the trash yeah right right um so and then like in the uh the competition shows we don't see or sometimes we do and then there are things that audience members have projected onto those participants so then they become kind of viral through through the different social media channels so just i mean it's entertainment and there can be things that that you want to experience that you see in a movie but just know that that is a moment and not the evolution of a connection yep just be honest about what you're watching who you are what you want all the things

be honest be curious communicate and make space for evolution of individuals in your life and if you have a great story that maybe doesn't meet like meet cute standards or we'd love to hear them so send them to us um there's going to be a link in the description for how to reach out to us if you want to um we we want to hear about what folks are going through i mean i've talked a lot about the research we talked a lot about media but it's about what people are living so if you've got What a great story. Let us know. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I think also what I just want to make sure is that we, part of, part of the desire of this conversation was to relieve the pressure of the expectation of these things. Yeah. Don't, you're not, you're not failing if you've never

experienced it in the relationship that you're in or in any relationship that you've had. It just, to just you don't have to feel the pressure of it yeah don't don't let the pressure of not having the perfect pickup line stop you from going talking to that person that you really want to talk to yeah yeah there's a great opening line so i was listening to this podcast and they said i should just be me there you go there's your new pod there's your new yeah there it is yeah there have you heard of unzipping taboos there we go shameless promotion yeah don't don't let don't let these these big gestures like the little gestures can be just as important don't let the it wasn't a meet cute like I've been sitting in class with this person for a semester and

like we're never going to have that moment because we've just been sitting next to each other or I work with this person and you know I'll see them around and but there's no meet cute that's okay don't don't let that be the thing that stops you if you want to try try take no for an answer if that's the answer but don't don't let the lack of a hollywood beginning like stop it from becoming something yeah yes that's all i got i love it well everyone i want to thank you for joining us on this episode of unzipping taboos candid conversations about sex. We hope today's episode sparked new thoughts. We'll open up conversations worth having, relieves a little bit of pressure you may have been putting on yourself. And remember

that your curiosity, we said it a couple of times today, curiosity is the key to breaking down your own barriers, barriers in relationships so that you can embrace a healthier understanding of relationships and sex. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe, leave a review, share it with someone who might need to hear this and if you've got a question or a topic you want us to dive into reach out to us via the link in the episode description a huge thanks to jack and jill adult.com for supporting unzipping taboos don't forget you get 20 off your order with code unzipping 20 go check them out we want to give a very special shout out to our music composer ellie o'brien thank you for our incredible theme music and until next time keep the conversation

going. Keep unzipping those taboos and everyone take care.