Up and Vanished - 16 | The Woman in Florida

Episode Date: October 3, 2024

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Testimony shared by guests of the show is their own and does not reflect the views of Tenderfoot TV or Odyssey. Thank you so much for listening. Alright, this will be an interview between Andy, Clamptor and Jake. Is it Stenton Benz? Yes sir. Did you have friends over to the house on Friday or Saturday night? I didn't have friends Friday and most definitely didn't have friends the next night. Were you aware of him going to the beach with Chrissy on Saturday?

Saturday? Yep. No. He probably would have left like around noon. Okay, hold on. Okay, so he went missing Sunday afternoon, right? Sounds like it, because it sounds like you were the last person to see him. Okay, so I was confusing myself. I went bridge jumping Saturday evening.

Do you remember what you were doing on Friday evening? No, I do not. Do you remember if Joseph's truck was at the house when you got home Saturday night? No, I don't. Did you just get dropped off? Yeah. Do you just get dropped off? Yeah. Do you remember seeing the pickup that he was using at the house on Sunday?

Mm-hmm. It was just the summer. There might have been some confusion if you've talked to the state troopers before. They first asked me what I did that Saturday night, and I couldn't remember to save my life. And so on the spot, I've never talked to the state troopers like this about a missing person. So I made a dumb move and made up a story. To me, it seems like either you're lying now

or you're lying then. It doesn't sound like you're being 100% truthful with me. Well, what did you tell the troopers that wasn't true? I went down the teller road to a different bridge. It went straight to my friends, and they got a different story. It didn't make me look good, because I was lying to them. And then they came back to me after all the question. Doesn doesn't match up with your story, what were you really doing? And what did you say at that point? When you guys came back, where did you go? Did Tyler

drop you off somewhere? He dropped you off and then you say you made it home at midnight 30 so what was the rest of it brother? What'd you do the rest of the night? It doesn't sound like you're being 100% truthful with me. We got four or five hours in the evening that I'd love to know what you did. I mean, what happened after you guys went entirely dropped jobs? That's the question. Man, how does somebody to play video games.

Okay. So what did you do Saturday night when you got back to knowing from bridge jumping? I want to say more than likely I probably just went to bed. From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta, this is Up and Vanished in The Midnight Sun, Chapter 2. I'm your host, Payne Lindsay. The timeline for that weekend is covered with holes. After midnight Friday, something bad happened to Joseph. And from that point forward, nothing makes sense anymore. Joseph texted his fiance Saturday morning,

but she feels like it wasn't really him. An unexplained 27 minute phone call with Christine, was he really at the beach with her? Jake does not remember that, but he does remember seeing Joseph in the hallway Sunday at 1pm. What are your sort of gut instincts about what probably happened to him? Um, I think something bad happened to him. My mom said when they were searching for him there was 30 plus bears in that area. I think a bear might have gotten to him. I talked to Joseph's sister, who was a part of every search, and she saw zero bears. I don't remember what time. Okay. What does Jake remember exactly? About anything?

And who were you with? My friend Tyler and my friend Emory. Okay, Tyler and Emory. Maybe they can help. Are you Tyler? Yes. No, I'm Andy Klamzer. Nice to meet you.

So Jake had difficulty remembering events from Saturday or Saturday night. Was he messed up that day? Was he like drinking or? I don't think he was drinking. Like I said, we went out bridge jumping every weekend. So in the summertime it's nice. We just want to jump in the water off the bridge. Right.

So I mean, did you think it was unusual that Jake was trying to get people to say they were with him Saturday night? Oh he wasn't doing that. No he was because we have the text he sent you guys about that. I'm gonna tell you the same thing I told the trooper. Jake didn't know what he was doing. Being stupid and he had to come up with a story or something, because, I don't know, he was seeing this wine out of the trooper out of his way or something.

Did you pick up Jake and Emry on Saturday? Think so. So what did you do after getting back to Nome on Saturday night, like about 10.30? I got at Jake's, played some games. So Tyler takes Emry and Jake bridge jumping Saturday. Conflicting times and locations, but putting that aside, Tyler ends up back at Jake's house

playing video games that night. When we start playing video games, we play for a couple of hours or so. How long do you think you were at Jake's Saturday night? I don't know, I didn't have my timer on. Is he a train conductor from the 1920s? What timer? We're wasting your time, you're wasting our time. We got no beneficial stuff for you.

Oh, he must have brought his pocket watch this time. What happened after you guys went entirely dropped jobs? Man, how is somebody even gonna play video games. Jake says he was playing video games Saturday night too. And who were you with? My friend Tyler and my friend Emory. Jake and Tyler are playing video games past midnight. So, what's up with Emory?

Alright, this will be an interview between Andy Klamzer and Emory Bushu. We're at the Aurora Inn conference room. It's the first of October 2016, the time now is about 221 p.m. Andy interviewed Emory. So we're trying to get better information on what was going on the weekend of June 25th. That's a weekend that Mr. Balderas went missing. And that would be the weekend that the troopers asked you about at some point. Yeah. Do you remember what you were doing on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday of that weekend?

This is exactly what I told the troopers. I have no memory of that day. I mean, we obviously, what I believe is we went out to Sinek. I don't remember the exact day, so I can't really put anything in there for you. Okay. And this is to go bridge jumping, right? Yeah. You think that would have been Friday or Saturday?

Your guess is as good as mine. Okay. Do you remember if you went bridge jumping like two days or two nights in a row? Like Friday and Saturday both? I wouldn't be surprised. It sounds like you guys would go out and do this a lot in the summer right? Yeah. And so it would be hard to distinguish.

Like that weekend is all just a blur. Just a blur. How are we to believe anything they say? Do you still have any of the text messages on your phone? Just a blur. How are we to believe anything they say? He's like, I couldn't remember, so I just made something up. And I told him we went out on this route. I'm like, why did you lie? It's the worst thing you could do. But yeah, he thinks. What did he say to that?

He, Jake? Yeah, yeah. What did he say, like, in the text? When you told him. No, I mean, when you're talking about it, I told him it was like the worst thing you could do. We were just dogging on him. We're telling him, you're stupid, you're an idiot, just giving him a bunch of crap.

So anyway do you still have any of the text messages from way back then? I'd have to scroll a lot but I could find it right now if you wanted me to but I'd be scrolling for... Well let's see that's because otherwise at some point it's going to get lost. So let's just see if we can find them. Emry eventually does find them. Can I just take a picture of them? Go for it. Just gently it's right there. Andy took pictures of Emry's phone.

And the conversation he had with Jake. It goes like this. Jake, Emry, I had to use you and Tyler in a story for the State Trooper. Emory. What did you say? Jake. That us three took a drive to Solomon at 8pm, got back at like 1am. This is supposed to be Saturday night, the day before he went missing. He asked what I did Saturday and if I saw him or whatnot. Emory, all right. Pretty basic conversation, weird though, but I noticed something that was slightly different in the state troopers report.

Could be nothing, but it's at least odd. In the police report, they refer to these same texts, but in the troopers version, Emory responded differently, saying, I honestly don't remember that day at all. And Jake responded, quote, me neither. So either those two texts were deleted prior to Andy's interview

or the state trooper just pulled that quote out of thin air. I don't think so. Did you think it was unusual that Jake was trying to get people to say they were with him that Saturday night? We were with him. It's just, he said he didn't remember that day. He just had to make something up. I guess guess it panicked I don't know why. So what tell me what Jake said later about all this after the troopers

contacted you guys talked about you know talked about it what did he what did he say about why he lied about it? He just, that's just what happened. That's just what he, that's just what came to his head, I guess. Because he said he doesn't remember that day, so he didn't want to seem suspicious or anything, but he did the worst thing. If he didn't remember, then how would he even know he's lying?

Because I like totally made him look suspicious. Yes, exactly. So, you know, you don't really have an independent memory of this particular weekend, right? So it wouldn't do any good to ask you questions about that particular weekend that the guy went missing. Yeah, that's why I called you yesterday. I just wanted to get it over with.

He just told me what he told you guys Mm-hmm, I guess he assumed I was gonna say the same stuff. I Thought this is gonna be just a few questions cuz I there's really nothing I could say about it This is a few questions. I eliminated like 90% of the questions Okay question. So, okay. Did Jake at any point actually ask you to lie for him about anything that weekend? He wanted me to stick with that story but I figured since I don't know what I did to either's I'm just gonna tell him I don't don't know what happened. Has Jake said anything about Joseph's disappearance?

Jake never talked to him. The rooms are right next to each other. They just keep it to themselves. Every time I was there, and Joe would come home, he'd go either to the kitchen, make some food, and then straight to his room. He talks on the phone a lot. That was pretty much it. He always went straight to his room. He talks on the phone a lot. Mm-hmm. That was pretty much it. He always went straight to his room. Never said anything to us.

Joseph, you mean? Yeah. You know if there was any friction between Jake and Joseph? I doubt it. Did you ever meet this fellow that went missing? Oh, one time. Downstairs in the kitchen, where he was staying at, where Jake lives. I introduced myself one night when he was cooking, shook his hand, that was about it.

I went back upstairs and started playing some more games with Jake. Okay. That was it, huh? That was the only time? That was the only time I ever talked to him. Have you known Jake all your life? My sophomore year of high school. Freshman sophomore year, something like that. So what are your general impressions of Jake as a person? He's one of my best friends. That's all you gotta hear. Okay. I hang out with him every day.

Is he honest? Yeah, for sure. I wouldn't be his friend if he wasn't. But he's he's one of my best friends. I'll probably head over there after this. The three bestest friends. I wonder what Emory talked to Jacob about after this. Or maybe he completely forgot to even go over there. At least they're consistent. What does possible sound like for your business?

It's the ability to reach further with access to over 1,400 lounges worldwide. Redefine possible with Business Platinum. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms and conditions apply. Visit amex.ca business platinum. So compiling all the facts and the statements made by Jake and his friends Tyler and Emory, it appears certain parts of that weekend, they remember quite clearly. They did go bridge jumping, they think. Let's say it was Saturday, or both days even. Collectively, they do remember doing that and coming back into town that Saturday evening. Both Jake and Tyler claim they spent the rest of the night at

Jake's house playing video games. And according to them, both Joseph and Joseph's truck were not there. The rest of it is fuzzy for them. But on Sunday morning, Jake's memory is crystal clear again. And he recalls with near certainty that he saw Joseph's truck back at the house and saw Joseph himself in the hallway at one p.m.. If this is true, it's like a David Blaine reappearing magic trick. The window of time in which Joseph could have come back to the house unnoticed and

leave immediately again at 1 PM is beyond bizarre behavior. Also, how'd he do it? And you'd think if Joseph really came back to the house Sunday at 1 PM, he'd respond to any of the dozens of missed calls and messages. People were blowing up his phone. Okay, devil's advocate, maybe his phone was broken, then why not email your fiance, just like you did on Friday? And where would Joseph be heading back out to at this point anyway?

And did he bring his broken phone with him? Do you see what I'm saying here? Anyway, you try to rationalize Jake's siding of Joseph on Sunday, makes no sense whatsoever. So let's continue trying to fill these gaps here. After Andy spoke to Tyler and Emory, he followed up with another one of Jake's friends named Cam. Cam was also a part of Jake's friend group and hanging around that weekend that Joseph went missing. Here's Andy's phone call with him.

We're trying to get better information and a better understanding of what was going on on the weekend of June 25th when Joseph went missing. Part of this partly because Jake had trouble initially figuring out what was going on. Do you recall what you were doing on that Friday, Saturday and Sunday? The Friday, I can't really remember, but I do know that Saturday we went out bridge jumping to Sinek Bridge.

We were probably out there till maybe six-ish and then came back into town What time did you guys get back in? No? I'll probably say anywhere from seven to eight eight thirty Who all was driving I Believe I drove my vehicle. I know Tyler had his vehicle So how sure are you that you guys went out there on? Saturday versus Friday

I want to say I'd be about 80% sure that we're out there on Saturday and not Friday I can look at pictures for what day was again? Yeah, Saturday was June 25th. So we're looking, we're wondering about the 24th and the 25th. Okay, 24th, I can look to my phone right now. Okay, June 25th, we were out at Salmon Lake. So that must have been the 24th that we went to Sanuk. Okay.

And so yeah, the 25th we're at Salmon Lake. I have a picture of me and one of my friends that was there, but that's it. Is there a date or something on it? Yeah, there is a date. No, May K, June in 25 known to Taylor. I wait So did they ever ask you to say that you were with him that weekend? No, he never asked me to ever say anything to anyone specifically about anything about it. Okay Sometimes shortly after that weekend take had some injuries on his face Yeah, I was with them right before it happened and they went out to Safety Roadhouse and they were playing catch with the football and Jake had fallen and scratched up his face bad pretty bad

Is this based on what Jake told you or did somebody else tell you about it? Tyler and Emory who were with them, they told me about it. They sent me a Snapchat of his face while he was sleeping in the vehicle. And then they said, yeah, Jake, yeah, that's how I found out. What did his face look like? There was just some scratches on it,

some scabs on like his chin, jaw line area, one on his cheek bone. And I think he had one on his wrist too. Let's see, so Saturday you would have gone to Salmon Lake. Yeah. What time do you think everybody got back to Nome? Probably around the same time frame, you know, 7 to 8, 8, 30 when it starts getting a little colder outside. Was there any small gathering or party on Friday or Saturday of that weekend? Saturday night I want to say there was a bachelor party at the pit and that's what I was doing on that night,

Saturday night. So Jake wasn't there? No, yes, Jake was with me, Jake was with me. That's when he first met that night at the pit. What pit was that? It's just they own a lot of land and they call it their pit but it's the Palmerankees from like Alaska Gold. How do you know? I remember it well now.

Why? Why do you remember it well? That's when he first met **** that night. It was just funny. He was just a little kid. He was a little kid. He was a little kid. He was a little kid. He was a little kid. He was a little kid. He was a little kid. Why? Why do you remember it well? That's when he first met that night. It was just funny.

It was funny watching Jake talk to her. Cam remembers clearly and differently that Saturday night. Cam and Jake were at a party. How sure are you that it was that Saturday night and then Jake was there? Oh, I'm positive that he was that Saturday night and that Jake was there? Oh, I'm positive that he was with me out there. So Jake went to a party with Cam on Saturday night. Did Jake ride out there with you?

Yeah, he did. And Cam drove Jake out there. Did anybody else ride with you? Ah yes, two pharmacy interns that my mom works with. They rode out there with me as well. And so they would have ridden out there with you and Jake? Mm-hmm. Positive that he was with me out there. I know Jake was there because as we were leaving he was trying to get to come to go home with

him but she said negative. Do you have a memory of dropping Jake off when you got back to town? Yeah because I went over to his house with him with Abby and the other pharmacy student We were there for a while and then I dropped him off to go Out and then that's when I dropped off the pharmacy interns and then I had one home All of you went over to Jake's initially when you got back? Yep. We were there for no more than an hour.

Then I had dropped him off his s***. Then I dropped them off and I went home. And then you dropped Jake off his s***? Yep. The censored name you're hearing is Jake's summer girlfriend. So what time did you drop him at ****? I would say after 4am. For her protection, I'm going to refer to her as Leah.

When you got to the house Saturday night, it actually would have been here pretty early in the morning when you guys came back from that pallet. Was Joseph's truck there or was Joseph at the house? No, I don't believe, I know he wasn't there and I do not believe this vehicle was there. Jake didn't usually like us coming over too late or staying too late if vehicle was there. Jake didn't usually like us coming over too late or staying too late if Joseph was there. So Cam tells a completely different story.

He says that Saturday evening, he drove Jake and himself out to a big bonfire party. And he's certain it was that night. And he remembers it because it was the first night that Jake met Leah, a summer intern who would soon become Jake's girlfriend. So Jake lied to the police more than once. He told the troopers that on Saturday night he stayed in and played video games at his

house. Tyler said that too. He also told Andy that he went to sleep afterwards. But I have multiple videos and pictures with the metadata in them that clearly state the date and time and show for a fact that Jake was at this party. But why would he lie about this? Cam says they left the party super late, went back to Jake's house for about an hour, around 4am, hung out, and then dropped Jake off at Leah's house, which had to have been at 5am or later. Cam also did not remember seeing Joseph or his truck

at the house. So this time window now has shrunk tremendously. Joseph would have had to have magically appeared between 6am and like 12.30pm on Sunday. And if Jake really went to this girl Leah's house, then what time did he go back home in order to go to sleep, wake up and all of a sudden have a perfectly clear recollection of Joseph in their house. It's more like which lie do we want to believe? More importantly, why is anyone lying here in the first place? Why is anyone lying here in the first place? Going back through all the tape, Andy himself pointed out something weird that Jacob said on his own about Leah, his summer girlfriend. On the day that Andy went to Jake's house to take pictures and have him cycle around through that rifle, he made an interesting comment that stood out to him.

rifle, he made an interesting, I'm out of here. Before Andy was out the door, Jake had one last question for him. So I'm just curious, but my mom asked me how everything went between you and I earlier, and I was like, it was fine, totally fine. Simple question. Right. She was telling me that you knew about ****. ****. She was a summer science intern. She was brought up here from Florida. The summer science program that's held here every year.

She said that, yeah, you brought her up and I was curious how you came to know about her. That's not ringing a bell. Who was it again? Her real name is ****, but she goes by ****. She's an intern. An intern where? From Florida. But where does she work? She was working with the camp department here in Nome. They host this summer program for, what do you say, teenagers. They get them exercising in the summer, you know, healthy related things. She said my mom made me a friend.

Oh, is this the girl for your girlfriend? At the time. Oh, no, actually I didn't know about her. I was just curious if someone, if they said something to you about her. No, actually. Was she even in Nome this summer? Yeah, they were here for about 3 or 4 months. Like her and her whole family?

No, a bunch of other interns from the same program, but they were randomly chosen throughout the United States. And she was doing that? And you guys just dated while she was here? I'm not sure. I'm just like, hey, she came up here, I met her. We got a little bit, I still talk to her today. There's no possession or anything. Good friend, I guess you could say. Okay. Did she go out bridge jumping with you? They were there, but I didn't tell them at the time.

Okay. They were there, but I didn't tell them at the time. So did all of that group, were they all out there? Yeah, but those entrance, they were there. So did she ever come by the house here? Yeah, I brought her over a couple times. Did she meet Joseph? No. No, she didn't.

I've never seen mountains before. Never did know. I told her about this earlier. Like, actually spoke. She kind of freaked out. Well, if you didn't do anything, I didn't do anything. We're good. It's kind of hard to hear him, so I'm paraphrasing.

But Jake basically says, I told her about this and she kind of freaked out. And he said, we didn't do anything, I didn't do anything, nothing to worry about. Freaked out? What do you mean freaked out? Why did she freak out, I wonder? She's kind of like one of the inner city people.

It blew my mind when she's never seen snow. I don't know, it surprised her, I guess you could say. Hmm. Hmm is right. Why would she freak out? Or did she even freak out? Or why are you so concerned about her in this moment? You brought her up to Andy on your own.

And why didn't you tell anyone else about this girlfriend? Or the night that you met her? What does Jake not want her to know? Okay, I'm going to take you back nearly two years ago to the very first time I met Andy Clamzer. We sat down in an Airbnb and Mike and I set up for our first interview with Andy. At this point in time, I knew very little about Joseph's case.

I want to say the work you did is impressive. Yeah. Oh, thank you. Hands down, it's just so in-depth. And I got to tip my hat. I'm impressed. Well, thank you. I never get any feedback on my work.

The attorneys I work for, it's just like, oh, well, this is just what they expect. About an hour into our discussion, Andy starts to unpack the details of Joseph's roommate, Jake. They realized that he was texting friends, trying to get friends to create an alibi for him for Saturday night. Why would somebody be doing that?

Obviously because he was trying to hide something. So that alone should have opened a murder investigation, right? But they didn't. What do you think in terms of investigative steps would be the things that we need to focus on and hit? The woman in Florida. Oh, is this the girl for your girlfriend?

At the time. Oh, no, actually girl for your girlfriend? Oh, no, actually I didn't know about her. When did she go back to Florida? I don't know, I was at the beginning of August. The woman in Florida. Leah, Jake's girlfriend that summer. The one lead he wanted to follow up on. I don't think so, not unless the attorneys say there's some reason to. the one lead he wanted to follow up on.

I don't think so, not unless the attorneys say there's some reason to. I mean, if she didn't know, don't say it. It's hard to hear, but Jake asked Andy if the cops were going to interview her. If I had continued working on this, the first thing I would have done is talk to the woman in Florida. talked to the woman in Florida.

There were some college students from out of state who had come up to do some kind of fieldwork that summer. The roommate had met one of these young women. That woman would be a very important person to talk to. In my opinion, all roads lead back to the roommate. When did she see him that night? How long was she with him? How was he acting? Did he say anything about his roommate? There's a lot of questions that someone should ask her.

You know, why is he lying about what he was doing? Why was he trying to create an alibi? He's the only person who claims to have seen Joseph on Sunday. If I had continued working on this, the first thing I would have done is talk to this girl in Florida. All these years later, like the true detective he is, the one thing that's kept Andy up at night about this case was Jake's girlfriend that summer, Leah,

who apparently moved back to Florida in August 2016. So ever since then, for almost two years, we've been trying our hardest to find her. And we found her. During the day, on Saturday, June 25th, I went bridge jumping. But Jake was not there. Later that Saturday night, I went to a party at a camp outside Nome. The party was late.

It probably started around 10 or 11 PM and went until 4 or 5 in the morning. Jake was at this party. I know that for certain. Because I talked to him, face to face, for over 30 minutes. Just me and him. I was having a drink, standing by a keg at the party. And that's when Jake first approached me. We talked for a while.

Then eventually, we walked off on our own. And that's when Jake first approached me. We talked for a while. Then eventually, we walked off on our own. It's a little fuzzy because I had been drinking. But I remember we had a very long conversation. Off to the side. Off, off, off, off, off, off to the side, off to the side. Off, off, off to the side, off to the side. And then, then he kissed me.

This is Leah, Jake's girlfriend that summer, who he met the night of June 25th. So I meet Jake at this party, everyone's drunk. And let me just preface by saying my life is entirely different now. We drank a lot, a lot, a lot. He's just like flirted with me. Like he's literally just like wants my number, wants to get to know me.

We're talking about our birthdays. And then he kissed me. Definitely wasn't like a five or 10 minute conversation. We like talked, got each other's number. He literally kissed me, like spent time talking, getting to know each other, interested in each other. He was mostly just hitting on me. I remember being by the car talking to him and the girls being like, come on, let's go. So I went from talking to him, him getting my number and everything, and then leaving right after.

and then leaving right after. He claims to the cops by 1230 a.m. he was back at his house playing video games. No, that is straight up not true. Why would he say that? I have no idea. So many people saw you at this party. Why are you not coming out and saying that you were there and that's what you did? Even if you were blackout drunk and don't remember being at that party,

and people are asking you you're alibi, why not just say you're there? Wouldn't you just text us and say, hey guys, can you not just confirm that we were at this party? All the girls, the interns I've lived with, we all left together. I was drunk. I literally was completely asleep. The next morning I saw that he had texted me and tried to come over. But then I told Leah that Cam claims he dropped Jake off at her house around 5am. And she says,

He didn't come over. I know who I believe it. Is shocking. I don't know. I'm having a lot of thoughts. We're still very deep into both investigations right now, and the amount of new information we're getting is insane.

Next Thursday, we're dropping episode 17. It's a finale episode, but only for now. Because after that, we're coming back with eight more episodes. And in this final installment, we'll be tying together and closing the knots on the disappearances of Joseph Balderas and Florence Okpialik, starting with Florence. So like I said, this is far from over, and next week will be the finale episode of this installment, and after a short break, we'll be returning with eight more episodes on these same two cases, starting firstly with Florence Okpialik and what we've

learned over the last six months. So tune in next Thursday for the biggest episode this season by far and learn more about where these cases are going. If you want to discuss the case more, join our Discord. There's a link to the Discord in the description. You can follow me on Instagram at painlensie and at up and vanished. See you next week. Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your host is Pain Lensie. The show is written by Pain Lens Lindsay with additional assistance from Mike Rooney.

Executive producers are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay. Lead producer is Mike Rooney, along with producers Dylan Harrington and Cooper Skinner. Editing by Mike Rooney and Cooper Skinner with additional editing by Dylan Harrington. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Additional production by Victoria McKenzie, Alice Konick Glenn, and Eric Quintana.

Artwork by Rob Sheridan. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Seth. Mix and mastered by Cooper Skinner. Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing, and the Nord Group. Special thanks to all of the families and community members that spoke to the team. Additional information and resources can be found in our show notes. For more podcasts like Up and Vanished, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app, or visit us at tenderfoot.tv. Thanks for listening.