Up and Vanished - 25 | Final Boarding Call

Episode Date: January 16, 2026

After months of investigating the disappearance of Joseph Balderas in Nome, Alaska, Payne Lindsey presents a comprehensive examination of everything that doesn't add up. In this penultimate episode, we systematically lay out the contradictions, every inconsistency, every conflicting account, every gap in the timeline of Joseph's last known hours. The evidence speaks for itself, and what it says demands answers. This is Part 1 of the Season 4 finale. The investigation has led us somewhere unexpected, and what comes next changes everything. Join our Discord: https://discord.gg/upandvanished To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to a Tenderfoot TV podcast. Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is released every Thursday and brought to you absolutely free. But for ad-free listening and exclusive bonuses, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at Tenderfootplus.com or on Apple Podcasts. Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is intended for mature audiences and may include topics that can be upsetting, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, rape and murder. The names of survivors have been changed for anonymity purposes.

Testimony shared by guests of the show is their own and does not reflect the views of Tenderfoot TV or Odyssey. Thank you so much for listening. When Joseph Bauderis disappeared in Nome, Alaska, it didn't feel like a mystery. It felt like a shock. Welcome to Alaska. This is it.

This is my little piece of home here. That's open ocean out there. You can certainly feel the magnitude of the ocean when you're on this. You don't really want to fuck around out there. It gives me the heby-jee-jeeves just being there here. Joseph was 36. He had a career. A fiancé.

He had plans. Real plans. A future already moving forward. Gnome wasn't a place Joseph came to disappear. It was temporary. Just a job. A chap. Not an ending.

Let's get one thing straight. Joseph Bauderis wasn't reckless. He wasn't spiraling. He wasn't running from his life. Everybody was pretty consistent about what they said about Joseph. Charismatic, smart guy who loved Alaska and had a lot of plans for the future. Met this woman in Juneau, Megan Ryder. They were planning to get married.

There was nothing negative that I found in researching Joseph, nothing that raised red flags for me, and he and Megan were gonna get married. He was very in love with her. He would text her right away. She sent us all the messages. If she messaged him, he messaged her right back. There is no wait time.

Good morning, Meg. I hope you have a good Friday. In fact, I know you will. I'm sure Cafe International is going to be hopping today, and I'm sure you're going to have a good lunch, and I'm sure you're going to have good walks and a good hike. But I just wanted to say also that I love you, and have a great day, babe. Bye.

That's who he was. Punctual, real, vulnerable, no bullshit. In the days before he vanished, Drossov was doing what people do in small towns, meeting people, being social, And in Nome, that matters. You don't just hang out. You eat dinner together, sitting at the same table.

You all become familiar. And before Joseph went missing, he was spending a lot of his time with a Pescoya family. Weekly dinners, camp talk, local life. And that Friday night in June, Joseph was out. He was seen. He was alive. This part is solid. But then Saturday came.

And from that moment on, the story stopped acting like the truth. It became a very big deal in Nome quickly. They had done a lot in terms of searching. Helicopters and airplanes. I think they had the Coast Guard helping. The state's conclusion, he had been attacked by a bear or had some kind of accident, and they just didn't find the body. The last person was going to be seen within about a mile or a half a mile of his truck.

And we covered all that area Big time. Not only was his gun missing, this new handgun that he had purchased, but the case for the handgun was missing. I think that's a very significant fact. Before we pull everything apart,

we need this timeline to be straight. Because once the day's blur, nothing makes sense. In June of 2016, Joseph Baldaris is in Noam, Alaska, for work. Temporarily, not permanent. Back in Juneau is his fiancé, Megan Ryder, a wedding planned, and a life waiting. Joseph is not the person to disappear quietly.

He doesn't ghost the person he's about to marry. Friday, June 24, 2016 is the last time Joseph is reliably seen. No one disputes this. That Friday night is the anchor. Christine Pascoya is someone who Joseph had been spending time with. talking as friends, making plans. And according to Christine, plans were made with Joseph for that Friday night and for Saturday. Friday night, they were at the bars and now.

This is a known fact. We actually have pictures of them together. But Christina said they also had plans for Saturday. Plans to go to the beach. Okay, let's pause here. So far, everything tracks, right? Friday night, he's a lie. he's seen, pictures, there's proof.

There's Saturday plans, but then silence. The Saturday morning of June 25th, 2016, is when this whole story turns. Joseph stops responding. Calls go unanswered. Messages go unread, then eventually undelivered. This is the exact point in time. His fiancé Megan Ryder starts to become concerned. There actually were text messages from Joseph that morning.

sent to his fiance, well, at least from his phone. But according to her, they didn't sound like him. I mean, when you know someone really well, you kind of know how they talk. You know what feels normal. And his fiance, Megan,

has a bad feeling about it. Nothing concrete or that she could prove physically, but just a feeling. An instinct. And as someone's partner in life, to me that holds some sort of, weight. Christine's phone matters a lot here. It held all the last messages, dozens of texts to Joseph. But after Joseph vanished, so did Christine's phone. Not physically, but all the information on it.

According to her, she locked herself out of her iPhone and completely restored it. I mean, I don't care who you are. You'd be losing a lot of stuff. Photos, videos, I don't know, everything. But just like that, Poof, it was gone. A digital footprint that's gone forever. The last clean record of Joseph being alive was erased. Christine is important because she's the last person that we know saw Joseph alive. I separated Christine and Kim in Deceptive Bedrund. Did you hear how different their testimonies were?

Their statements? Thought about that they were like boyfriend girlfriend. So you guys were never boyfriend girlfriend then? No, we were just friends. We're good friends. My family adopted him. We took him right in. He fit right in.

And my family thought we should date, but him and I, just friends, but are off friends. Christine talks about the beach a lot. Do you hung out at each beach for approximately how long? Probably about until 2.30, quarter to three, just about two hours. But no one sees Joseph there. There are no witnesses, no photos, no confirmation, just Christine's story.

Their rendezvous at the beach that Saturday exists in the story, but not in reality. Moving on. Was he upset about anything? Not that I know of because he was excited that he had mentioned to me before, not the same weekend, but had mentioned to me before, that him and Megan were going to get married. I said, okay, well, I started asking questions. I said, how long you've been dating? How did you meet her?

What do you guys plan to do? Because he was moving to Juneau. Because his term was done here in August. And he seemed excited about it. And I said, okay, well, you guys have, let's see, you've been single for six years, right? He's like, yeah. And now you've been dating for, what, six months-ish? Yeah.

You know, it was five months, six months. And I was like, and you're going to get married? I was like, don't you think that's a little dumb, Joseph? Do you still have the text that you can refer to? No, because the phone got, I had to restore my phone because the pass code got disabled, was not very happy. My brother disabled my phone. He messed with my pin, you know. That night?

No, that day. Sunday? Oh, no. And so I was so mad because, I mean, everything I had was, you know, the text messages, the call, because they were still there. And so he disabled it. So he disabled it, so every pincode I thought it would be, I used, and it wasn't, so it ended up disabling it. Nobody really thought that was a possibility, but I, but if, you know, if you, did you see any depression issues or sadness or anything leading up to his disappearing?

No. Jake, that's Joseph's roommate. Also, Christine's cousin. Jake is right in the middle of all of this. I understand from friends that there had been a little bit of tension between the two. The roommate was younger

and there was some party and Joseph wasn't comfortable with that. I have not been able to interview Jake. I set up two interviews. He's never showed up to either one. Saturday passes and Joseph never reappears. And when the police start asking Jake about Saturday night,

Jake says he was at home with friends. This was a lie. He lied about this. We have video proof that Jake was actually at a bonfire party with his summer girlfriend. He wasn't home. She's talked to us, verified it. I've seen the videos of him with timestamps.

Jake also asked his friends to lie about this. They literally create an alibi. It's just really important for us to get this timeline figured out. I mean, we don't think that anybody did anything wrong, But what's really important is Jake is getting these timelines figured out because if we leave a gap in any of this time sequence that happened, people are going to fill it with whatever they want. No one saw him after you did.

It's called that Last Known Live type thing. He didn't really talk to anybody after that. There was no communications. There was no contact with anybody on his cell phone or anything after Saturday. I guarantee the family is going to be asking questions. Everything doesn't add up. all the inconsistencies. He saw him mourning with the backpack

whenever somebody else witnessed the truck already planted out there on mile 44. But all the other sightings from different people who aren't related, they don't connect. They're all different timings. This is not confusion. This is coordination. And when it finally stops making sense,

Jake admits he lied. They realized that he was texting friends trying to get friends to create an alibi for him for Saturday night. Take originally you told me that you went out for a try and then I talked to your buddies and they said that didn't happen and they told me that you specifically went for a drive that way and then they told me that they weren't with you or that didn't happen but again my issue is when confronted with hey what did you do last week and I wouldn't say I went for a drive someplace that wasn't to me it seems like

Like either you're lying now because you're covering it, covering it for something that you don't want to tell us that for, or you were lying then. He says he was nervous. He didn't know what to say. Okay. But here's the problem. If nothing happened on Saturday night,

then there's no reason to lie about Saturday night. And then we get to Sunday. Suddenly, Joseph isn't last seen on Saturday. Now he's alive and well on Sunday. Jake himself repeatedly, to the cops, private investigators, you name it, swears up and down that he saw Joseph alive on Sunday morning and again Sunday afternoon. Let's pause here. If this is true, if Joseph was alive on Sunday morning, that would mean he ghosted his fiance for over 24 hours. No call, no text, nothing.

That's not Joseph. And here's the most important piece. Sunday doesn't exist because it explains anything. Sunday exists because it pushes the timeline. Later, farther, safer. Now let's add in Kevin, Kevin Pascoya. I stayed an extra day there to try to interview Kevin Piscoa. We ran over the trail.

I just know that something's not adding up right with that. This is Christine's uncle. Jake's uncle. Kevin's odd behavior during the search efforts clearly stand out, and all this is coming from more than one person. The name Kevin Pascoya keeps reappearing at pressure points. That's not my opinion.

That's what everyone in the town of Nome besides a Pascoya actually thinks. Now watch the pattern. Joseph disappears Saturday, then Sunday, then later Sunday. then farther away Sunday the timeline doesn't just wander it moves a little later a little farther

just a little bit safer so I want you to ask yourself if Joseph Bauderas was really alive on Sunday then why did Jake lie about Saturday night why recruit his friends in on it why build an alibi an alibi for what

well that's because Saturday is the only day that actually matters. That's not confusion. That's not reconstruction. That's just what it is. There's already way too many names here. And honestly, I don't expect anyone to remember all of them.

But there's one thing I hope you pick up on. Have you noticed their last name? Have you noticed how often it keeps coming up? And in all the messiness, if that's what you want to call it, of the timeline the weekend Joseph went missing, we have two other names. Bonnie Pascoya and Kirk Reynolds. Bonnie is Jake Pascoya's mother.

Kirk is Jake's stepfather. And together, they're all part of the same family. The family Joseph Bauderis was spending time around right up until he went missing. For most of this season, the names Bonnie and Kirk have largely stayed in the background. They haven't really been too loud. But as the timeline gets tighter, and the contradictions start stacking up. Bonnie and Kirk don't drift away from the story.

They move closer to the dead center. The sightings of Bonnie and Kirk start to matter more. Their explanations start carrying more weight. And slowly, almost without anyone noticing, two people who once fell peripheral begin showing up at nearly every pressure point in this entire case. Not his answers, but is something that now needs to be understood.

Here's Bonnie. We were at camp. I'd seen his vehicle drive by. We were outside working on the addition at camp, and I remember saying, I didn't stop. Bonnie stated, very adamant, that he was with Christine 1.30 to 3 on the beach.

Sunday. Sunday or Saturday? Astor. Point blank, was it Sunday? She says yes. So we're getting conflicting information right from the get-go. And here's Kirk. Do you recall seeing Joseph at any point during the weekend that he disappeared? That'd be the 25th, June 25th.

We were, the last time I saw him was when he drove by camp on Sunday. I'm not sure what the date of that would have been that weekend. We were working on the new edition. there at camp which is at mile 26 on the council road and we were my wife and I were working on the deck and we saw his pickup go just flying by and she mentioned something like oh there goes Joseph and I looked up at the last second to see that blue truck go by and I didn't really realize he had a blue truck I guess I didn't really pay attention when he drove so I just didn't think anything

at the truck but we thought I wonder why he didn't stop it was about time to eat and he probably would have stopped in to say hi, but he didn't. And so he didn't really think anything of it, like, well, maybe he'll stop back on the way by it. And I'm assuming that was him in the truck. I couldn't get a super good look at his face because he went by pretty fast. How sure are you that it was Joseph's truck? Probably 100% sure because that's the truck that was parked down there where he was going hiking.

There's another blue one in town, but I'm pretty sure it's an extended cab, not a single cab like his was. So I had the little extra window in the back, so I just didn't have that. And it was the same one that's parked down there. Yeah, yeah. So I want you to use a 1 to 10 scale with 10 being absolutely positive, like you're looking out at something, and one being not at all sure. How sure are you using that scale that it was Joseph's truck that went by?

Not the driver, just the truck. A 10. because I looked at the vehicles went by and I didn't know at that time that was Joseph's truck until later when Bonnie said that he was driving that truck and then it was down there at the road because I didn't know he had a vehicle until then

but same one that was parked down there same exactly because we were talking about the difference in those two trucks later and I said well the one that passed us was a single cab and I know that other one at home's an extended cab so I could tell the difference when I'm buying okay let's explore some new information him. And by new, I only mean just now coming to light. Joseph's sister, Selena, who has worked her

ass off with the rest of her family to find Joseph, opened up a tip line. This was nearly 10 years ago now. It was the Finding Joseph hotline, a number that routed straight to her cell phone, and she literally answered every call. Late one night, back in 2017, someone called the tip line. If you didn't do anything, but you knew something, why wouldn't you come forward? At what point does silence become complicity? What if you saw something that you couldn't unsee? Something that scared the hell out of you? A piece of information you think might be directly related to a missing person.

Finding Joseph. Hello? Hey. Not so long. You're very soon. I'm listening. Harvey Miller, Jr. Sorry, what was that?

Harvey Miller, Jr. Do you have information, he said? Yeah. Kevin, Kevin Poscoa. Kevin Piscoya. Parts of his call were difficult to play on the podcast, so he reconstructed it verbatim. It was late.

I was going to my Aunt Carol's house. Carol Piscoya, as I was walking down the street, I walked past my dad's house. I ran into my dad. It was about to be his birthday, so everyone was up late and drinking. My dad told me he wanted to talk to me about something. It sounded serious. He said, we're going to drive around together and we're going to drink. But then he walked away into the other room.

He was gone for a while. I peaked in and I could tell that he was on the phone with someone. And then I heard my dad say, you got a guy right here? Like he was asking the other person on the phone as someone was available for something. What it was? I don't know. Out of nowhere. Kevin Pascoya came around the corner.

He just stopped and stared at me in the eyes. He said, do you know who I am? Kevin was angry. And he was saying all kinds of weird stuff. He demanded that I go upstairs. Then Kevin reached out and demanded that I give him my cell phone. So I did. Then my dad came rushing out of the other room and yelled at me to go upstairs too.

So I did. Can I repeat the story to make sure I understand correctly, Harvey? Kevin Cascoria showed up and said to go inside. inside and you went upstairs and you and they took your phone. Yeah. When I got upstairs and went into our laundry room. Very quietly, I looked out the laundry room window. Down below in the driveway, I saw that old blue pickup truck.

You know the one? The blue truck. The one that belonged to Joseph. All I could see is my dad and Kevin Pascoya, backing that blue truck into the driveway. Then I heard my mom scream my name. She told me to stop looking. A few days later, someone called my dad on his cell phone. It was hard to hear, but the person on the other line said something like, Joseph wants his truck. My dad paused for a minute. Then my dad told the person on the phone that Joseph went on vacation. That didn't make any sense to me. This was right

around the time that people in town started saying Joseph was missing. The next day I asked my dad about it, and again he gave me the same answer. My dad told me that Joseph was gone on vacation. I didn't believe him. I know what I saw that night. I think Joseph was killed that night, and there's one more thing I need to tell you. It's been really bothering me. In our backyard, there's like a bit of a big of it.

hole in the ground, sinkhole in our backyard. For several months my dad kept complaining about it saying that he wanted to fill it, but he never did because he didn't have enough money to pay for it. But then, out of nowhere, just days after that night, that sinkhole in the backyard was filled in. Like it just happened overnight. The timing was so strange, I don't know. I feel like something.

Something might be in there. I feel like there's something buried under there. I heard Kevin and my dad talking about money. Kevin said something about someone disappearing. It was scary. And I didn't like how he said it. And I think I heard them say that Bonnie knows something too. I remember, and I knew about that,

somebody big digging that shit up. You've been digging that shit up, I'm gonna go over there to get that shit up. And it really bothers me. I was told that there's a truck now that's kind of parked, so you can't get in there. Be honest. Be honest. Yeah, you might get charged with something, but be honest.

If you weren't the person that did it, be honest. There's one single detail on this case that should have stopped everything. And to be completely honest, the private investigator, Andy Klamzer, mentioned this the first day I met him. But at the time, in all the time, in all, the noise, it was hard to see just how important this could potentially be. Not only was his gun missing, this new handgun that he had purchased, but the case for the handgun was missing. I think that's a very significant fact. The troopers didn't even enter that handgun into the computer system, missing or stolen. Why would they do that?

You know, they weren't interested in it. I mean, this is just my impression. The case was done, they had moved on, and they didn't want to reopen it and do more work on it. The missing gun and the case that went with it is really significant, I think. These are big leads to follow up on in a missing person's case. What is that telling you? That somebody stole the gun. He's missing, and somebody stole the gun. Something happened to him, and his gun and the case disappeared.

So what kind of scenario do those still for you in your head? That he was murdered. After I interviewed Kirk, they were urging me. me to talk to Jake. So I called Jake a bunch of times, like 11 times, I think the first day I was there, and he always had his phone set to not accept calls. He continues to say that he observed Joseph coming out of his bedroom

about 1.30 p.m. on Sunday and leaving the house. He claims that he never saw any guns at the house there that Joseph might have had. Frankly, that didn't ring true to me because Joseph couldn't even latch the door to his room. You know, he had to keep the door closed with a bungee cord. He had bought that Torres pistol in March, and I just think it's highly unlikely that Jake, staying in a bedroom right next to his, you know, wasn't aware of that and never saw it. Let me break this down cleanly.

Joseph bought a handgun in Nome, a new handgun. Joseph kept this gun at his house. After Joseph disappeared, the gun was never found. It wasn't in his truck. It wasn't in the woods. Not visible anywhere in the dozens and dozens of miles they searched. His gun was simply gone. Hi, Payne.

I wanted to give you some background on Kirk and the Piscoya family from my perspective. I believe it provides important context. Kirk and I were raised. in a very unconventional household near Talkitna, Alaska. The adults who raised us converted to an extreme form of Seventh-day Adventism when we were very young. This included complete homeschooling, no television, no secular music, no makeup, no jewelry, no secular books, and no Christmas trees because they were considered pagan.

Although there was a loving maternal presence, The father figure was intensely rigid about religious rules, while also being deeply anti-government and willing to break any rule he didn't agree with. He would not work on Friday afternoons because the Sabbath began at sunset, which in Alaska can be as early as 3.30 p.m. in winter. We were raised listening to conservative talk radio

during long drives to town. with very limited exposure to the outside world. This kind of upbringing is more common in Alaska than people realize, especially in remote areas with little oversight. When your only socialization is with like-minded individuals once a week at church, it shapes your worldview in ways that are very difficult to undo.

Kirk and I responded to this environment differently. I was academically inclined and largely self-taught, a high school curriculum at home. Kirk struggled academically and did not complete homeschooling until he was around 20. He became interested in flying as a teenager and illegally soloed a neighbor's plane with adult permission at 15. He became a licensed pilot at 16 and had little interest in academics. We both married young. Kirk's first marriage ended after three years, leaving him with a one-year-old child, parenting and early adulthood.

After his first marriage ended, Kirk moved to Unalakleet to build flight hours. Other family members had to step into parental roles for his son, either traveling to care for him or having him stay elsewhere. Kirk took parenting lightly and often prioritized social life over responsibility, leaving the actual care of his child to others. He later remarried a woman significantly older than him, a relationship that eventually became abusive and ended in divorce. After a key maternal figure in the family passed away at a young age,

his son was exposed to a series of new relationships. Kirk brought into his life. Eventually, Kirk moved to Nome to fly for bearing air, where he met Bonnie Stettinbens, who was married at the time and worked as the office manager. They had an affair, Bonnie divorced her husband, and she and Kirk married in 2014

when the children involved were teenagers. The Piscoya family dynamic. I first met. family in Nome in 2013. From the beginning, there was a clear hierarchy. Some children were treated as central and others as peripheral. Kirk openly tolerated his own son being treated as lesser than Bonnie's children. I personally witnessed Bonnie instruct his son to sit on the floor so her children could sit

on the couch. This was not an isolated incident, but part of the first. of a consistent pattern. Kirk has always been a follower rather than a leader. He consistently deferred to his partner's wishes, even when it came at the expense of his own child. His son was treated as a servant, expected to do chores while others were not.

He was held to strict rules, while other children were allowed far more freedom. At one point as a teenager, He was expected to perform physically demanding caregiving tasks for an elderly family member, responsibilities more appropriate for a trained adult, while others were not asked to help. The Biscoa family is extremely close. They have weekly meals together and are deeply intertwined economically, emotionally, and culturally in-known.

Carol functions as a clear matriarch, and family reputation is treated as paramount. Control, image, and relationships. Kirk and Bonnie have long been over-involved in Christine's romantic life. Public comments and family behavior strongly suggested they were pushing Joseph toward a relationship with her. In a small town like Nome, being invited to weekly family dinners is not casual. It signals inclusion and expectations.

I am not surprised Joseph would have felt welcomed and wanted to spend time with them. I would also not be surprised if the family reacted strongly to any perceived rejection or slight involving Christine, who was described as a favorite within the family. After the podcast was released, Kirk told his son that a large family meeting had been held where the decision was made to say nothing publicly. His son was not included in that meeting and was not informed about the podcast for weeks. When it became impossible to hide,

the podcast was minimized. And you were demeaned as the podcaster, Kirk's personality. Kirk is outwardly charismatic, and people tend to like him. At the same time, he has long struggled with low self-esteem and reacts poorly to people he perceives as more successful. He frequently brags about being an Alaska Airlines pilot and is very image conscious. He seeks attention and validation, often performing publicly, including filming himself playing piano in airports.

Bonnie shares this showy behavior, which is a very showy behavior. which is notably out of step with Alaska native cultural norms that typically value humility and self-restraint. Kirk does not think independently and often needs external pressure to act. His advancement to Alaska Airlines captain occurred only after degree requirements were dropped and after strong advocacy from Bonnie's brother.

When conflict later arose, Kirk cut ties rather than engage directly. He requires constant validation, reacts angrily when challenged, and will gaslight when confronted with factual inconsistencies. He routinely diminishes educated professionals in order to elevate himself. Money and loyalty. Kirk has a long history of financial irresponsibility. He and Bonnie spend lavishly on Carol's adopted children, posting frequent trips and experiences,

while his own son did not receive comparable care or support. Kirk has repeatedly chosen the Piscoya family over his own relatives. He ignored an elderly family member for over a year after a serious medical event until confronted. He severed relationships, rather than repair them, even refusing to make amends when asked at the end of life. After Joseph's disappearance, we never heard about law enforcement interviews when they happened. Kirk and Bonnie occasionally posted about Joseph being missing,

often accompanied by smiling selfies. If Kirk had believed he was meaningfully assisting the investigation, he would have spoken about it openly. Instead, this was hidden from much of the family and only discovered later through the podcast. Kirk is entirely devoted to the Piscoya family and will comply with whatever Carol or Bonnie wishes. While I want to believe he would not be directly involved in wrongdoing,

I do believe he would bend moral boundaries to protect the family's image. He has always treated rules as flexible, especially when they conflict with loyalty or self-interest. Kirk has refused to listen to the podcast. There is no rational explanation for this. Anyone being discussed on a national platform would normally want to hear what was being said, especially if it were false. His refusal and his anger when others listened, strongly suggests he already knows what happened

and does not want to hear it framed publicly. Kirk has been urged by other family members to reconcile with his son and has consistently refused offering excuse after excuse. He will villainize his own child while continuing to prioritize others. I do not want to speak for his son.

Other immediate family members are deeply troubled by what appears to be the Piscoya family's role in this tragedy and by Kirk's lack of honesty surrounding it. If Kirk cannot show compassion for either his own family or Joseph's family, then he has fully aligned himself with the Piscoya family and whatever role they played. If you need further context, I am available. Nothing of Joseph was found at all. Besides his blue truck, strangely parked on the road, there was nothing. No pieces of clothing, no backpack, no phone.

There was no body, no gear, nothing. Got it? Okay. So, here's a very basic question. How do you know someone is unarmed? if you never find that person at all. Easy answer. You don't.

If Joseph owned a gun and that gun was missing from his house, the most logical assumption would be that he took it with him, right? Any personal belongings that are missing would likely be on his person, which we've never found. That's not speculation. That's just how logic works. The police reports aren't public. All the interviews that you've heard from Andy Clamzer, the private investigator, literally no one has heard these except for us and now you guys.

Hopefully we're all on the same page now. I'm about to play some tape, which is part of the reason we've taken this long, abrupt pause in the first place. The same week, we did the very impromptu polygraph test with Oregon John. Someone very close to this case reached out with what I feel is bottom. I'll shoot you straight. At that time of my life, I was completely overloaded, not solely from the podcast, just life. And so I took a long pause and I left you guys hanging. It wasn't my intent. But yeah, I did. But I was sitting on something that required a lot more scrutiny, detail, protection. Not just for me, but for the sources themselves. And after over six months of talking to them,

they've agreed to release this tape. This was obtained 100% legally. The laws of one party consent apply in all audio, and there's written permission granted from the other caller on the phone. This is Kirk

and Bonnie. There's a stupid podcast person who does investigative stuff on missing people, and he started doing this podcast about Joseph, of the murderers and part of the mafia, and Graham's a mafia person, and we should all lose our job.

I mean, it's bad. Seeing that we're the one, who made Joseph disappear. He doesn't know anything. This guy doesn't even know anything. It's just making all this stuff up and dragging everybody to the dirt about it. That first day, he found 29 there.

Zelina, Joseph is there. No, that can't be it. That can be it. This guy is just an idiot. I think he should be sued for lying and for trying to scare people. That's not right. I think we should be sued for it. You probably doesn't have any money though.

That's probably the deal. I know how you get paid for podcasts, probably by viewers or something. Everybody in our family, a long time ago after all those interviews with us, they cleared us all. Because we all had alibi as what we were doing. Where are we all we're doing? It had nothing to do with us. He probably got taken out by a bear somewhere, but this guy won't agree with that. I don't know why somebody would want to hurt it.

He was such a nice person. I mean, you met him, you knew him. He was a nice guy. I don't know anybody would want to do anything to him. To me, what makes sense is he's running on a ridge with no gun, no bear spray, and he's in the most popular area around. He goes missing. They'd have to know Joseph owned a gun in the first place.

No gun, no air spray. This was not emphasized by police. This wasn't common knowledge at all. Okay, I'll play devil's advocate. Maybe some people learned about the gun later. But that explanation doesn't work here. If nothing of Joseph was ever found out there, how does he know he didn't have his gun with him?

Because even though this was said, recently. It wasn't the first time Kirk said this. He also said it back in 2017. So what are your gut instincts about what happened to him? Pardon me says it's a bear, just because this area and where he was and alone, not armed. He wasn't saying maybe he didn't have a gun. He also knew that gun was not with Joseph. So where the fuck is it? In the next episode of U.S. Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun. You'll hear the rest of this phone call.

This is the captain speaking. Up and vanished in the Midnight Sun is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your host is Payne Lindsay. The show is written by Payne Lindsay with additional assistance from Mike Rooney. Executive producers are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay.

Lead producer is Mike Rooney along with producers Dylan Harrington and Cooper Skinner. Editing by Mike Rooney and Cooper Skinner with additional editing by Dylan Harris. Sopervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Additional production by Victoria McKenzie, Alice Kniek Glenn, and Eric Kintana. Artwork by Rob Sheridan, original music by makeup and vanity set. Mix and mastered by Cooper Skinner.

Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing, and the Nord Group. Special thanks to all of the families and community members that spoke to the team. Additional information and resources can be found in our show notes. For more podcasts, like Up and Vanished, search Tenderfoot TV. Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us at tenderfoot.tv. Thanks for listening.