Up and Vanished - Ashley Loring Heavyrunner: Payne Tells All

Episode Date: April 6, 2025

After Ashley’s story aired, the tip line lit up. Some calls were static. Others felt too real to ignore—a video sent to her sister, a sighting near Two Medicine, a bunkhouse with a vanished ranch hand. In this update, Payne follows the leads that stuck. And maybe, just maybe, we’re closer than ever to the truth. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Thank you so much for listening. Crestone, Colorado introduced us to mysteries. Browning, Montana revealed a crisis. This season, Payne Lindsay and the Up and Vanished team turned their attention to a story far bigger than just one person's disappearance. At its heart is Ashley Loring Heavy Runner, a 20-year-old Indigenous woman who vanished in June of 2017 from the Blackfeet Indian Reservation. But Ashley's story is more than a missing person's case. It's emblematic of a national crisis, the epidemic of missing and murdered indigenous women, or MMIW. Ashley's case doesn't just highlight the pain of one family, it exposes a system of

silence, distrust, and neglect that has allowed these stories to remain hidden for far too long. This is her story, and the story of the people who refused to let her be forgotten. To understand Ashley's disappearance, we have to start with who she was. To her family, Ashley wasn't just a sister or a daughter. She was their light. Her sister Kimberly described her as someone who could brighten the darkest days with just a laugh. But she had the most beautiful smile. She was a very caring person. Just had this big

heart for everything. Ashley grew up on the Blackfeet Indian Reservation just 40 miles from the Canadian border. Life on the reservation wasn't always easy, but Ashley faced those challenges with the resilience and warmth that endeared her to everyone who knew her. But like many Indigenous women, Ashley's life wasn't without struggles. And in the weeks leading up to her disappearance, something changed. She started acting differently. More distant. More anxious. And her family couldn't quite put their finger on why. From Tinderfoot TV in Atlanta, this is Up and Vanished. I'm your host, Payne Lindsay.

This is Up and Vanished. I'm your host, Payne Lindsay. The timeline of Ashley's disappearance begins on June 5th, 2017. That night, she visited her father's house in Browning. She seemed paranoid, closing all the blinds and telling her father not to look outside when a car pulled up. I did something, she told him, but she wouldn't explain what, and then she was gone. That same night, Ashley was reportedly seen at a party hosted by Vernon Wagner.

There were multiple witnesses who claimed she was there, and even a video posted on Facebook that showed her sitting on a couch. But by the time Payne Lindsay and the Up and Vanished team began their investigation, that video had disappeared. The next day, June 6th, Kimberly messaged Ashley on Facebook. Are you okay? She asked. Ashley replied, always. But something about the response felt off. Kimberly could sense it, even then.

I don't know where she was at the time. I don't know where she was at. I believe wherever she was held a key. When Payne Lindsay and the Up and Vanished team arrived in Browning, they faced an uphill battle. Distrust of outsiders, years of secrecy, and a fractured system of law enforcement created walls at every turn. But piece by piece, they began reconstructing Ashley's final days. One key location kept coming up in interviews. Big Al's house, known as a party spot on the outskirts of town.

Witnesses claimed Ashley had been there the morning after the party at Vernon's. She told me she didn't want to be there, one witness said, and I told her get in. From Big Al's house, Ashley was picked up by another man, Sam McDonald. According to Sam, Ashley stayed at his cabin deep in the mountains for six days. And then on June 11th, he claimed he decided to drive her home. But somewhere along the way, she disappeared. The deeper pain in the team dug, the more suspicious characters began to emerge. Big Al, whose house was reportedly known for drugs and troubling behavior, was one of them.

There were stories of girls escaping his house, syringes in their arms, one local said, and then Ashley went there. But it was Sam McDonald who stood at the center of the investigation. Sam admitted that Ashley had stayed with him for days and described a bizarre and troubling final interaction. He claimed that while driving her back to town, Ashley asked him to stop at a mountain pullout, saying she was meeting someone named V-Dog. I leaned my chair back, and when I woke up, she was gone, Sam said. Sam's story raised more questions than answers. Why didn't he help with a search for Ashley afterward?

Why did he remodel his house after she disappeared? And who exactly was V-Dog? V-Dog, as it turned out, was a man named Paul Valenzuela, a known criminal with a lengthy record. But by the time pain tracked him down, the trail had grown cold. Ashley's disappearance is part of a larger crisis. Native women are murdered at rates 10 times higher than the national average, and murder is the third leading cause of death for Indigenous women.

Despite these staggering statistics, law enforcement often fails to act. Desi Lone Bear Rodriguez, an advocate for MMIW, described the systematic failures that have allowed this crisis to continue. "'Our women are targets,' she said. "'We're not safe in our homes, in our communities, "'or on the roads. "'And when we disappear, no one cares.'" Payne and the team amplified this message, giving Kimberly and others a platform to demand

justice, not just for Ashley, but for all Indigenous women. For over four years, Kimberly Loring Heavy Runner has been the driving force behind the search for Ashley. She has led marches, spoken at town halls, and even testified before Congress, calling out the failures of law enforcement to take her sister's case seriously. If they had searched for my sister right away, we wouldn't still be looking. We would have Ashley," she said.

Kimberly's determination has not only kept Ashley's story alive, but has also brought national attention to the broader issue of MMIW. One of the most dramatic moments in Payne's investigation came when he tracked down Sam McDonald at his remote cabin near St. Mary's Lake. As Payne approached, Sam stepped out of his house, holding a gun.

If I'd seen a gun in your hand, Sam said, I would have shot you. Despite the tense encounter, Payne managed to interview Sam, pressing him on the details of Ashley's disappearance. But the more Sam talked, the less his story seemed to add up. You might remember the name Paul Valenzuela. Or maybe you remember his nickname better.

V-Dog. He was one of the major names that kept floating around in Ashley's case. Like a shadow behind the scenes. We heard rumors, whispers, and eventually we tracked him down. I'll be honest, when I knocked on his door, I didn't know what was going to happen. Any of this is written down, what I'm telling you right now,

I'ma come find you, okay? Because I'm telling you right now. I'm just a podcaster. It doesn't matter. I'm not trying to point I'm just a podcaster it doesn't matter I'm not trying to point fingers at anybody check this out man I know the routine I know all this little just little talk I don't work for the big people I don't work for the news I'm just independent doesn't matter everybody's always going to blame the bad guy okay everybody does it for every

fucking reason so I'm gonna tell you right now, I ain't got nothing to do with that fucking Lauren girl. Okay? Never did, never will. Kimberly Lauren is a piece of crap for what the fuck she's been doing to my family. And my family name. It don't bother me. That shit don't bother me at all, bro.

I don't give a fuck where you come from, man. There's other people in the case. It's not like it's just you. Like there's Sam. Go for it then. No, I've talked to Sam I've talked to T I only haven't talked to you fuck about T either T's a fucking piece of crap, too They're all pieces of crap. Okay, you can write that down. They're all some crap

Dude five minutes man, please To date this is one of the most intense moments I've ever experienced doing this show. Something about the way he looked at me, the tension in the air, this strange confusion amongst us. It was pretty clear this guy had something to hide, and he didn't care if he lost everything trying to hide it. And now, first hand, we know exactly how dangerous Fee Dog really is. In June of 2024, just a few months after our encounter, Paul Valenzuela was arrested

by the FBI in Great Falls, Montana. Several people were detained overnight in Great Falls after law enforcement officers executed a search warrant. The situation developed between midnight and 1 a.m. on Monday, August 14th, at or near 6th Avenue, North and 7th Street. An officer with a bullhorn announced several times that the FBI was executing the warrant and ordered the suspects to come out of the house. At least one flashbang was used, and officers with the high-risk unit eventually broke down the door of the house. At first, the charges were shocking. Threats to kill a federal officer. Firearms violations.

An assault with a deadly weapon. But then it got worse. In the court filings, the truth came out. Valenzuela had brutally assaulted a man on the Blackfeet Reservation with a baseball bat, leaving him hospitalized with serious injuries. The federal charge of threatening a law enforcement officer was later dropped, but the assault charge stuck.

V-Dog was sentenced to three years in federal prison, and suddenly the rumors about him didn't feel like rumors anymore. They felt like warnings. Looking back at that moment, standing on his doorstep, asking him point blank about Ashley, I still get chills. Because that's what this story is full of. People hiding in plain sight. People who think no one will come knocking.

But we did. And now, he's behind bars. At least for a little while. Whether or not Paul Valenzuela was involved in Ashley's disappearance is still something we're digging into to this day. But what we do know is this. He's dangerous. He's capable of violence. And he had every reason in the world to avoid the truth. After airing Ashley's story, something happened that no one could have been prepared for. The tip line blew up. Dozens and dozens of phone calls.

Some of the tips felt like noise. Dead ends. Static. But then, certain voices began to cut through the silence. The ones that stuck with me. The ones I couldn't shake. One of which was Megan. I turned in a report to Blackfeet Law Enforcement, Blackfeet Tribal Business Council, the FBI,

missing murdered indigenous people out of buildings. And my report is not being looked into because the person who found her phone that was signed into Ashley's Facebook is named Ruben Edwards. There's another Ruben Edwards in Browning that is a straight person. However, it was not that Ruben Edwards that found the phone. It was a different Ruben Edwards, a younger one, not the straight person. However, it was not that Reuben Edwards that found the phone. It was a different Reuben Edwards, a younger one, not the straight person. Ashley was seen by my cousin.

He seen Ashley in a truck with two males. One of them was named Alan Potts, sure chief, and the other one's name is Joe Gobert. Ashley jumped out of the truck and she walked over to my cousin David's vehicle and asked for a ride and David asked what she was doing out there. Ashley got mad that he would question her and she jumped back in with the guys. Exactly that spot where she jumped out at and where she seen David at, that's where

her phone was found. Megan claims her cousin saw Ashley that day. Not only that, but he talked to her. She says Ashley was with two men, Joe Gobert and Alan Potts, and that she asked for a ride. Seemingly panicked, and when he questioned her, she got angry and jumped back into the truck. The spot where it happened? The same spot where Ashley's phone was eventually found. Still logged into her Facebook. Megan says the man who found it was confused with someone else by law enforcement, which caused the whole lead to be dismissed.

She also says Ashley was trying to get to Two Medicine, texting people for a ride, and that destination may hold the key. I said, did you, how do you know that was Ashley's phone? And he said, because it was signed into Facebook and it said Ashley Lauren heavy runner. I said, well, do you remember anything about the phone? And he said, yeah, it wasn't cracked. It was a newer phone.

It didn't have a lock on it. And there was text messages that she was asking for a ride to Running Fishers. She was asking for a ride to medicine. There was someone who reported her in a white truck parked out by to Medicine. Well, out by to Medicine, where she was going, where I believe to where she was going was to

Mabel and Jamie Running Fishers Bunk House. They had a guy living there who was a ranch hen and he came from the Billings area, I think it was like the Crow Reservation. Jimmy met him through rodeoing. He was living in their house and he had no form of transportation transportation besides a horse and their green ATV. I was out into medicine on my grandpa's land. When I was down there by the river, I was with my boyfriend and we got out of the truck and I heard a ATV in the distance.

But it was just part like running and it took a really long time and then finally I start hearing it get closer and it got closer. I seen Richard or Jas, whatever his name is, in the trees out into medicine and when I seen him he panicked. He didn't know what to do. He jumped out of a ATV and he like stood behind it and the only way he could leave was if he went past me like how we were in the clearing and when he went past there was a big black bag in the back. It looked like there was something, it wasn't like trash. It was something that was like big and sticking out the side of the,

of the ATV, the back of the ATV. It's not investigated properly. The person I listed who found Ashley's phone that when Ashley was asking for a ride to medicine, he is being confused with someone who has the same name. I really would appreciate if you guys can question Richard Jess Railbert on this also because I believe that's who she was going to.

That was the only male living down there at that time. According to her, Jess left town days after Ashley vanished, left all this stuff behind never to come back again. But that wasn't the only tip. We also got a call from Ashley's mother. Hello, I'm trying to get a hold of pain, Lindsay. I'm Ashley's mother, Loxi Lynn Loring, and I have been in contact and trying to work with the FBI. And we have a new location just across from DeVide where Sam claims that he took my daughter.

We got a tip from Windy Bird. That's where Tashina brought my daughter. There's a trailer down there and it's just across the road from Divide. If you could please give me a call back. I would really like to speak to Payne Lindsay and if there's any way that I need help with cadaver dogs and I really appreciate for what you have done on my daughter's case and interviews. If you could please give me a call back. Thank you. She told me about a new location. A trailer near Divide. A place that might have been tied to Sam. The man who claimed to have been with Ashley the night she disappeared. Then there was something stranger.

I guess this is weird, but I came across a profile on FetLife last night. The name that the profile is under is... Hold on, hold on. Sativa Bria, S-A-T-I-V-A, B-R-I-A. A woman found an online profile with a girl who looked almost identical to Ashley, the username Sativa Bria. Honestly, it could be completely nothing, or it might be someone using Ashley's identity. Either way, the resemblance was striking.

And yet one more broken piece to add to this puzzle. And then there were the visions. I don't usually include these. I'll be honest. Psychic tips, spiritual visions, those don't usually make it into my notebooks. But one call gave me chills. I've had this vision of Ashley and I just had it again. I see her standing in a room. She's looking at me and I... She's trying to tell me something but I don't... I can't read what she's saying to me. Would you like some headphones, sir?

Uh, no thanks. I have my own. Attention passengers, this is your captain speaking. Due to extreme winds, we're experiencing a bit of a delay. As we get more details on departure, I will keep you updated. It looks like we're not going to make it to the interview tonight. What do you want to do? I'd say let's reschedule for tomorrow to be safe.

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Conditions apply. Details at Fizz.ca. Because it's like I see her and she's yelling at me but I don't know what she's saying because there's nothing coming out of her mouth but she's screaming trying to get my attention and I'm trying to help her but I can't do anything because I don't know what she's saying to me. Her name was Shanae Running Rabbit. She grew up on the same reservation and said she'd had this vision over and over again. I've had this vision. I don't know how many times I've had this vision.

this vision. I don't know how many times I've had this vision. At one point it was like I was looking through her eyes and she was in this like this room. I think there was a bed against the wall or something and I don't know I just I was looking through her eyes in the vision as well and I just saw what she was seeing but I can't tell where she's at but I know she was in a room somewhere. I don't know if this will help at all and I doubt it will but I've had this vision so many times and I lived on the tribe where she lived as well. I still can't see what she's saying to me. And I think she's trying to give me a hint to where she's at. I'll try to channel it again. I doubt this will be able to help, but something in me is telling me that I need to tell you this now.

Ashley in a dark room, screaming. And something about the way she said it just stuck with me. Some of these tips are very specific, some completely abstract. But altogether, they start to form something bigger. A picture of a young woman surrounded by danger. A trail that keeps trying to disappear. And the possibility that we might be closer than ever to real answers. But of all the tips we received, there was one

far more disturbing than the others. In August of last year, Ashley's sister, Kimberly, received a tip. It wasn't just a name or a rumor. It was a link. A link to a video that was more than unsettling. It was hosted on a shock site known for gore. And what they said was chilling. The video began with a local news clip, a reporter announcing the reward for Ashley's case. Then this eerie song starts playing in the background. Upon further investigation, we found that this song was a distorted version of Secret,

one of the theme songs in the show Pretty Little Liars. It's a haunting track about two girls. One tells the other a secret. She promises to keep it, but she doesn't. And the secret then becomes deadly. The screen cuts to an animated skull, guns crossed behind it. It looks like something from a 90s video game, but then it flashes to Ashley's missing poster. Her face, her name, her story.

And then, it shows a woman in a bathtub outside, a metal grate bolted across the top, locking her inside. It's filmed from the viewpoint of someone holding a hose, slowly filling the tub with water. And that's where it ends. To be completely transparent, I've truly never seen anything in my life this awful before. Was this real? Was it a hoax? A prank? Regardless, here's what we do know.

Whoever made this, whether it was a hoax, a sick joke, or something far worse, someone out there knew about Ashley, knew that this girl looked just like her, and they knew exactly what they were doing. And whoever this twisted person is, it's a crime, and we've passed this information along to the FBI. We've spent years on this case, years talking to people who said they didn't know anything, even though their stories didn't add up. Years hearing the same names over and over again. Years watching agencies pass the buck from one to the next.

Ashley Loring Heavy Runner disappeared on tribal land. That means the jurisdiction gets messy. Local law, tribal law, federal law. It's a complete maze. And if you're the family of a missing person, there's no roadmap. And for those still searching, this isn't just a headline. It's a lived experience, and they're still in it. I believe someone knows exactly what happened to Ashley, and someone else is still too scared

to say. That's why we're still doing this, because maybe the right person is finally ready. And if that's you, that matters. There's still a $50,000 reward here for any new information that leads to an arrest in Ashley's case. This episode marks the end of a long chapter, but it's not the end of the story. And for those of you who've been waiting, we're not done. Up and Vanished Season 4, In the Midnight Sun, will finally return on Friday, April 25th. Back to Alaska, back into the dark, deeper than ever before. From past experience I've learned, the closer you get to the truth, the more dangerous it

becomes. Up in Vanish Season 4, In the Midnight Sun, the disappearance of Florence Okpialik and Joseph Balderas returns Friday, April 25th. Stay tuned. I grabbed my torch, I started up a fire You really don't think that we're gonna survive You seem small like you know my type But I hope you're not around when I draw my gun You see the fire from my wind chest I've been holding my tongue too long All you see is the lights and the road You're running things, you're running home, yeah Stay on my breath, gotta be my way Starting route to Browning, Montana

For 82 miles, continue on US Highway 2 No, I don't like things done the wrong way Oh, oh, oh, oh, the nerve Will start a riot in the middle of the night I will defend my home And start a riot in the middle of the night Up and Vanish is a production of Tenderfoot TV, created, hosted, and edited by Payne Lindsay. Executive producers are Payne Lindsay and Donald Albright.

Original score by Makeup and Vanity Set. Our theme song is Ophelia by Ezza Rose. Sound design, mixing, and mastering by Cooper Skinner. Additional production by Cooper Skinner, Eric Quintana, and myself, Mike Rooney. Our cover art is by Trevor Eyler. Special thanks to Grace Royer and Oren Rosenbaum at UTA, Ryan Nord, Jesse Nord, and Matthew Papa at The Nord Group, Station 16, Beck Media & Marketing, as well as Chris Cochran and the team at Cadence 13. This episode features the song Riot by Kamino. You can hear more by visiting kaminomusic.com.

Visit us on social media at Up and Vanished or you can visit us at upandvanished.com where you can join in on our discussion board. If you're enjoying Up and Vanished, tell a friend, family member or coworker about it and don't forget to subscribe, rate and review on Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening. mafia for all these years. It doesn't make any sense. He was a firefighter paramedic. How the hell can he be a hitman? I need answers so I am currently

on a plane back to Chicago to interview everybody. Anybody that knows anything about this. I'm in shock. This is absolutely insane. I just don't understand. I need to figure this out. The shocking new true crime series, Kirk County, from Tenderfoot TV and iHeart podcasts is available now. Binge the entire series for free on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.