Up and Vanished - Bonus: 12 Years Later

Episode Date: November 7, 2017

We take a look back at the disappearance of Tara Grinstead, 12 years later. Plus, new indictments and updates on the case. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone else close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor, free of charge. More than 40 GBI agents swarmed a pecan orchard in Ben Hill County this afternoon. Not one, but two former students from that school under arrest.

With the intent to indeed have serious bodily harm to the person of Tara Grinstead. Charging Ryan Alexander Deeb with the murder of Tara Grinstead. From Tenderfoot TV at Industrious Atlanta, this is Up and Vanished, the investigation of Tara Grinstead. I'm your host, Payne Lindsey. Tara Grinstead was reported missing on October 24th, 2005, which means we've just passed the 12-year mark since her disappearance. Last year at this time, I had just released episode six with the suicide story. And since then, so much has changed for everyone. Firstly, we now know this is no longer a missing persons case. Two men who were former students of Tara's now face charges in relation to her murder.

And on top of that, there's a gag order in place. In today's episode, I want to revisit Tara's case and reflect on all the changes between then and now, 12 years later. The South Georgia grand jury has indicted Bo Dukes on three charges connected to Grinstead's death. Investigators say that Dukes helped his friend Ryan Duke bury Grinstead's burnt body in a pecan grove. Bo Dukes now accused of concealing a death, tampering with evidence, and hindering the apprehension of a criminal. As soon as I heard the news about Beauduc's newest charges, the first person I talked to was Philip Holloway. Since the last episode of Up and Vanish, there's been some recent updates in the case regarding Beauduc's.

If you want to elaborate on that a false statement, hindering apprehension of a criminal, concealing the death of another. The indictment is structured in a weird way because it charges him with two counts of making a false statement, one count of hindering apprehension of a criminal, and one count of concealing a death of another. And the problem with that is, is that this all supposedly happened in June of 2016 in Wilcox County. Allegedly, he's basically being accused of lying to Agent Shedell in June of 2016. So was he on their radar before 2017? Obviously, at least Bo was. And what they're accusing him of is lying about his role in the death of Tara Grinstead. This new indictment deals with a conversation supposedly had between Agent Shedell of the

GBI and Bo Dukes. conversation supposedly had between agent chadell of the gbi and beau dukes and it deals with lying about a conversation or information that beau discussed with someone by the name of john mccullough that's listed in count one and specifically it says he denied to agent jason chadell that he did not discuss tara faye Grinstead with John McCullough. Now, the double negatives notwithstanding, it doesn't go into much detail about how that was untruthful, but it is alleged as a false statement. When we went into this case, there seemed to be no doubt that Bo was going to be the centerpiece of the trial of the state of Georgia versus Ryan Alexander Duke, and that his testimony, him coming forward, that was sort of the big break in

the case because until early 2017, none of this was on their radar, or at least Ryan wasn't on their radar. But interestingly enough, we start talking about statutes of limitation and whether or not there was a search of the pecan orchard made by Irwin County back in the months following Tara's disappearance. And the question is raised in Up and Vanished and other places, quite frankly, about whether or not there was a problem with the statute of limitations. there was a problem with the statute of limitations. The next thing you know, we wind up with an indictment that alleges an offense in the summer of 2016, well within the statute of limitations for the crimes that are alleged in Wilcox County. So you've got to wonder,

is Bo going to be the centerpiece of this trial? Because they're accusing him not only of being a liar, but of being a felonious liar. And how can you have such a witness as the centerpiece of your trial because they're accusing him not only of being a liar, but of being a felonious liar. And how can you have such a witness as the centerpiece of your trial? I don't think the DA can use Bo Dukes as a witness at all in the case because if he is being accused by the same investigative agency of being a liar, there's no way that he can be a witness in this case because once his ass sits in the witness chair, his credibility becomes at issue. And if he's being accused of all these felonies and felonies that involve truthfulness, there's no way that they can

prosecute this case using Bo as a witness at this point. So if Paul Bowden is going to convict Ryan, he's going to have to do it with other corroborating information, and he's going to need to leave Bo completely out of it. Is it possible to get a conviction of Ryan Duke for Tara's murder without any other witnesses? Well, they have presumably some statements made by Ryan. They have presumably physical evidence that was obtained from the pecan orchard following the GBI search. Exactly what that is, I don't know, but they do require some corroboration if Ryan has made any incriminating statements. And then we also have to ask ourselves, who else might be on their witness list? Who else might they have talked to after they interviewed Bo Dukes? Where in this

case does this John McCullough come in, and who is he? What statements might Bo have made to John McCullough? Because the Wilcox County indictment really brings this person in as a new player. And the GBI is alleging that Bo has made statements and had a conversation with John McCullough about what happened. But still, if what's in question is Bo's truthfulness, if he told somebody else something about what happened to Tara or what Ryan did, he could also be lying there too. If somebody else, one of Bo's friends or former friends or army buddies or whoever it is, is testifying about something that Bo told them, I mean, isn't that not credible too? I mean, it sounds to me like it would be the same thing essentially. Not only is it possibly not credible, it's also hearsay. You can't just bring in a John McCullough and say,

okay, John McCullough, tell this jury what Bo said to you, because that's hearsay, because Bo would not be there and then be subject to cross-examination. So in bringing this new indictment against Bo in Wilcox County, it really muddies the waters when we're thinking about how this case is going to be tried. Who are they going to use as witnesses? Obviously, they can use any statement that Ryan makes.

They can use any corroborating physical evidence that they might have. They can bring any other witnesses who have direct knowledge of anything about the case, but they cannot bring in people to testify to hearsay. And given what's happened at this point, I don't see any real way to bring Bo Dukes in as a witness because the state of Georgia is accusing him of being someone who is not trustworthy. Or to put it another way, the state of Georgia says this guy is not worthy of belief. But hey, jury, why don't you believe him in this case? So it doesn't make sense. Doesn't make sense why they would use him at all. Do you think that there might be a scenario possible where they obviously try to convict both of these guys,

Ryan Duke for the murder of Tara Grinstead and Bo Dukes for helping cover it up and all the lies he's told. Let's say, would it be possible that they do not have enough evidence to convict Ryan of the murder, but they still can convict Bo Dukes for what he did because he actually admitted it? And they were able to corroborate that story by finding the body?

That's absolutely possible. I think that given the fact that there's two indictments against Bo, granted that one of them may have a statute of limitations defense, the fact that they've indicted Bo twice in two different counties within the same judicial circuit tells me that they are trying to convict Bo and probably trying to send him to prison. You got to bear in mind the indictment against Ryan is in the Tifton Judicial Circuit in an entirely different county.

So the evidence that one would use to try to prosecute Bo is entirely different county. So the evidence that one would use to try to prosecute Bo is entirely different than the evidence that would be used to go after Ryan, or at least partially different. There may be some overlap, but these are all three distinctly different indictments.

I see. It's been over eight months now since the arrest, and we're approaching nine months, slowly approaching a year since the arrest. What kind of timeline are we looking at here? I know that these things can take a while. This is a very complex case, the biggest case file in the history of the GBI. But are we any closer than we were at the end of the season? If you're talking about how close we are to trial, they're keeping this very close to the vest. But given what we know about how fast things work in Irwin County and how quickly cases go to trial, this case is not yet on the radar for trial.

It seems that there's a lot that needs to be done. The Supreme Court is still considering the gag order in the case. It's not impossible that the DA might want to go ahead and get the case tried before the Supreme Court even rules on the case, which would render that moot, but it's still Irwin County. And remember Dusty telling us about people that sit in that jail for two to three years without going to trial? It would not surprise me if that's not where we are here, that we're just in a very long holding pattern waiting for trial. I know it's Irwin County and things move slowly and differently down there and it's a small town and some of the rules seem like they don't apply down there, but this is a national story now. This

is a huge case that has eyeballs on it from all over the country. Shouldn't that make a difference in the way they move in this case? It should make a difference because they say justice delayed is justice denied. There is something that the defense could do at this point. They could file what's called a plea in bar and they could say, you know, judge, it would be unconstitutional to try this case because of pretrial delay. Our client has been sitting in jail awaiting a trial for so long that our ability to present a defense has been hampered to the point that it's violated his constitutional right to a speedy trial. Now, that's oftentimes a high burden, but I think we're approaching the point where a prudent defense counsel might at least have to consider asking a judge to dismiss

an indictment based on pretrial delay. And what do you think the judge will say to that? I can tell you that those types of motions are seldom granted, at least by trial courts. The way that people win when they do win on such a motion is it gets denied by a trial court, and then that gets reversed by an appellate court. But it's not beyond the realm of possibility that Judge Cross could say, you know what, it has been too long, and that your constitutional rights were violated, and they would dismiss the indictment. The biggest change between the end of season one and now from a legal perspective is that I am fairly certain

that Bo Dukes will not be a witness if there's ever a trial in the state of Georgia versus Ryan Alexander Duke. To no surprise, the GBI is now calling Bo Dukes a liar. Also in recent news, the Supreme Court in Georgia weighed in on whether or not the gag order in Tara Grinstead's case is deemed constitutional. Here's audio of Ryan Duke's lawyer pleading his case to the Georgia Supreme Court. I think, Mr. Cowan, that kind of permeates all of this is a presumption that you cannot get a fair and impartial jury. And what is it right now to say that you can't get a, in your opinion,

a fair or the opinion of your client, a fair and impartial jury? I Now, what indication do we have? We're concerned, you know, as stated by the different things that are in the articles, we're having problems with the social media and the Internet being what it is today. We can look at those things and see, and we're seeing, and it's been cited and I know, just because somebody posts anything doesn't even mean they're a potential jury they could be on the other side of the world but when you see the venom the the hatred the concern that goes to our client it does make us very concerned one of the things that you may have noticed from the facts um in this particular case there's an internet website that's been devoted to this case

up and vanished and they sat on there there's approximately 15 million listeners on there and if you look at mr lindsey's uh coverage of the of the trial i'm sorry the coverage of the case, you see that even without going into the details and the things that we've asked not to be discussed, he's still able to provide media coverage and talk about the case. Is that prejudicial, potentially? In some cases. So how would you stop it? This order's not stopped since March 27th, correct? In some cases. How would you stop it? Well. This order's not stopped since March 27th, correct?

What we've done. To their point, you have, the order potentially has the effect of limiting their sources. But it hasn't stopped the social media cover. That's correct, Your Honor. You still think that's prejudicial, or could be? All we've asked is that the gag order cover the potential trial participants. But you can't trace what the trial participants are doing in an inappropriate way

to the stuff you're complaining about. This podcast, is there any evidence the podcast is based on anything that this order would prohibit? Not that we could tell. We monitor it, Judge. Okay, so if that's the case, how can you cite that as basis for the gag order? Well, they work around it. They're able to cover it without getting into those potential facts that we consider will be prejudicial to the case, the potential jurors. Yes, we call that media coverage, right?

Are you saying that the court can ban media coverage based on what they learn through the public? No. I don't think this gag order prohibits them from being able to cover the case. I think what it does, it limits maybe what they want to get into, the assorted details, the kind of things that typically, you know, we would get into in a trial of the case, but I don't think it limits their ability to make a fair coverage of the case and inform the public of the progress and what's going on. And what evidence are they

getting into assorted details that cover from anybody, come from anybody covered by this order? assorted details that cover from anybody come from anybody covered by this order well they're going to come from law enforcement and that's why what what evidence is there in the record that anything that you call a sorted detail is coming from something that would be prohibited by this order that's you know again while we're requesting as a prophylactic purposes and that's the presumptive party that you're presuming something that hasn't occurred. That's correct, Your Honor. Philip Holloway had his own opinion on the gag order too. There's also been some recent developments in the news regarding the gag order in this case.

Could you elaborate on that? On October 24th of 2017, the Georgia Supreme Court met and heard the appeal that was filed by media lawyers alleging that the gag order violated the First Amendment. that the justices generally were concerned about how broad this gag order is and whether or not it, in fact, has hampered the news media's ability to gather information. Because the First Amendment deals with many things, but at the heart of this appeal by the media outlets is the right of the press to have free access to the ability to gather the news, if you will. The arguments that were made by the lawyers for every side in this case were certainly very interesting, but looking at it objectively, if I were to be a voting justice, I would have voted

with the media lawyers because I think, in my opinion, they have the better argument when it comes to the legality of the gag order. Get ready for Las Vegas-style action at BetMGM, the king of online casinos. Enjoy casino games at your fingertips with the same Vegas strip excitement MGM is famous for. When you play classics like MGM Grand Millions or popular games like Blackjack, When you play classics like MGM Grand Millions or popular games like Blackjack, Baccarat, and Roulette with our ever-growing library of digital slot games, a large selection of online table games, and signature BetMGM service, there is no better way to bring the excitement and ambience of Las Vegas home to you than with BetMGM Casino. Download the BetMGM Casino app today. BetMGM and GameSense remind you to play responsibly.

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But don't worry, it's not too late. It's free and easy to use, and you get cash back deposited into your PayPal account or sent to you as a check. Earn cash back at stores like Sephora, Old Navy, and Expedia. It's the smartest way to shop, plain and simple. Start your shopping at Rakuten.ca or get the Rakuten app. That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N.ca. Just like I mentioned in the podcast before in the past, in the courtroom that day, the defense counsel for Ryan Duke and the district attorney

who is prosecuting Ryan Duke were both sitting at the same table once again, and they were there in support of the gag order. Why do you think that is? Both sides of this case, the prosecution and the defense very much want this gag order to remain in place. I can see why the defense would be supporting a gag order because they're trying to avoid a tainted jury pool. The prosecution also is interested in maintaining the integrity of an investigation and not have wild theories and speculation and rumor make their way out into the media. theories and speculation and rumor make their way out into the media. So both sides do have sort of parallel interests here. But the problem with both of those arguments is that there are other remedies. A police chief or the director of the GBI could simply issue an order and say,

look, nobody who works for me is allowed to talk about this case. And if you do, I'm going to fire you. So that has just as much effect, if you will, as a judge's order. And as far as a fair trial for the defense, there are lots of other things that would work. And I really don't know why anyone would even conceive of having a trial in this case in Irwin County, because it has literally permeated and saturated the discussion in that county since Tara up and vanished. I think that a change of venue almost has to occur, and that would be the best remedy against a tainted jury pool, not some gag order that it's as broad as this one is. With the way reporting has changed in recent years with technology, social media, Twitter, podcasts, all that stuff, this to me seems like it could be an even bigger deal than it is

now because the defense is bringing in this podcast, which is a generally new form of reporting and journalism that's only about 10 years old, if that. And they're basically saying in some way or another that they do not want me and this podcast to be able to report like I have been on this case. And I feel like if the Supreme Court rules in favor of removing the gag order Supreme Court rules in favor of removing the gag order and supporting the First Amendment for people like me who make podcasts about true crime stories. I think it's a huge step forward when it comes to other people who want to do what I'm doing years from now. I don't know of any other case that's been in the Supreme Court that is regarding the

First Amendment in a podcast. And I feel like this could set a precedent for what to expect for other podcasters in the future. Well, I think there was a ruling recently by the Georgia Supreme Court where another podcast, I think it was Undisclosed, wanted access to some audio from a trial. And the court, in a very technical ruling that had nothing to do with the First Amendment, said that trial recordings were part of the record, but there was no right that a podcast had to force somebody to give over the audio of a trial. But short of that, this is absolutely a major development in not only the recognition of what podcasting can do, because we have the ability to

reach audiences that are much wider than the media outlets that brought this challenge to the gag order. I mean, hundreds of millions of listens worldwide versus the media market for a local Atlanta TV station, that's huge. So you now have the Up and Vanish, this one little podcast that you started out of your apartment, now becoming center stage before the Georgia Supreme Court. And it's there because somebody had the wherewithal to go down to this small town and they didn't know anything about it and just start asking questions. And the questions, that's what shook the trees that caused people to talk. You know, you shake enough trees, leaves are going to fall, nuts are going to fall, you're going to learn some information. And that's what happened. Things got stirred up to the point that people started talking. So the podcast has absolutely made

a difference and it has the possibility to make really, really good case law depending on how the Supreme Court rules. The other thing that you got to take into consideration is that the podcast has not necessarily been in lockstep with the narrative that has been presented through the warrants and the indictment. We have questioned a lot of things about this case. We've talked all along about that we want the case to be solved, that we want the truth to come out. We don't want some partial truth, and we don't want some fake truth. So we want it solved. They're claiming that it's solved, and we have openly questioned whether they've gotten it right. There's definitely been a sort of a love-hate relationship over time, and it's changed over time. Because when this arrest took place and these indictments occurred, immediately we started looking at it and saying, wait a minute.

Something about this may not exactly make sense based on what we know. So when it comes to the Supreme Court's ruling on the gag order, what happens next? What would happen would be the Supreme Court would either say that the gag order was not unconstitutional and it would stay in place as it currently is, or they could say part of it is constitutional, part of it's not, and send it back to the trial court with instructions to make appropriate modifications based on what the Supreme Court may or may not find to be unlawful about it. So when should we expect to hear their decision? The Supreme Court usually takes several months,

depending on whether or not the justices are in agreement. One interesting side note, the Georgia Supreme Court now has nine members on it. One of the members of the Supreme Court recused herself from the deliberations because of some political connections that she has to one of the lawyers who did not directly represent the media, but also filed what's called an amicus brief, which is sort of like a third party intervening saying, yeah, we don't represent this TV station, but we agree with them. So because of some connections that were personal or political between one of the justices, there was only eight. So it could turn

out that there's a tie. And if there's a tie, the ruling stands as is and the gag order stays in place. Besides legal developments, there's recently been some personal and emotional changes in Tara's case. Dusty Vassie passed away on September 8th, 2017 from cancer. Dusty was a huge help to me during my investigation, not to mention a real friend. And I'm not just saying that. Out of every single person I met in this case, I was closest to Dusty. And the Osceola Star where he worked was really the only place I ever felt comfortable. Dusty was smart, he was witty, he was funny, and hands down, one of the most genuine people I've ever met. And not to mention, an incredible writer. I'll miss him. And this case would not be where it

is today without his help. Recently, Dusty's mom called me to share some words of her own about her son. He was getting ready to go to Abbeville to get statements from anybody because that was when they had just got charged with the other indictments in Wilcox County for lying to the GBI. He was getting ready to go there, and he called me, and he called himself the ambulance. And I was there before the ambulance was. He had started coughing blood again like he did at first,

but he said it was a lot worse. We got to the hospital, to ER, and they did a CAT scan. And one of his doctors, his main pulmonologist, thought that he had a leak coming from an artery. And then the radiologist read it and said that it was a blood clot. So we don't really know for sure what caused the bleeding, but it pretty much stopped during the day except for just a little bit here and there. And his sister had come from Fayetteville, North Carolina,

and she had been there maybe five, ten minutes. And you know Dusty, how he would cut up. And I'm not sure even I know what the name of the song was. She had on a long sweater, but she had on jeans. But something about a short skirt and a long coat or I don't know. Anyway, he was singing that to her. Anyway, he was singing that to her. And his typical self, you know, trying to be funny.

And he started coughing. And when he started coughing, he started bleeding again. And it never stopped. I don't think anybody expected it to happen that soon. He wanted to write the book on Tara, and what he said was that he wanted to write it from the town's aspect and to let everybody know that Osceola wasn't the conniving, secretive, everybody knew and everybody was hiding kind of place, you know. There may have been a few other people that knew, but the majority of people had never heard those names in connection with Tara. But he was so glad he started the podcast because it did bring light to a lot of things and uncover a lot of leaves and brought it back out into the limelight, so to speak. And he was really glad of that.

But he really wanted to write his book after there was closure. Of course, he's not going to have that chance anymore, but just everybody in Ocilla and across the world, it has just been humbling to know that so many people love Dusty. We actually live in Irwinville, which is a small community like nine miles away from Azula, which is where Tara went missing

and where Dusty worked at Azula Star. where Tara went missing and where Dusty worked at that Soul Star. And he just made up a rap song, and he included different restaurants and named different places, other communities, and said, we're all Irwin villains, you know. And he actually then did a series, a sequel to it. And actually at the sweepstakes parade, a high school band learned the music. And Dean and Dean had t-shirts made up of I'm an Irwin Dillon with the little stick figure thing that he had made of himself.

And I had people messaging me from the Up and Vanished on Facebook, and I mailed several T-shirts to people halfway across the world. I mean, from a little, from a guy from this little bitty town of Irwinville, for him to have touched so many people, and of course all the money, the proceeds, are going toward the scholarship fund in Dusty's memory. We're still overwhelmed every day at the messages that people send and the people that befriend me, you know, just because I'm Dusty's mom. And I'm honored to have been his mother.

It hurts. It hurts. It hurts really bad every day because I miss him so bad. But I'm also very, very proud of my son. He always has been, even as a child, probably the most honest person I've ever known. I mean, he would tell on himself when he didn't have to, and I probably wouldn't have found out when he was a kid. But that's the way he was.

He was an open book. You know, believe me, if he thought Osula and the people in Osula were trying to hide things, he would have brought it out. He wouldn't have let a secret like that go for 12 years if it was well known. He just wouldn't. And I hope there will be justice for Dara. And I hope that the right people will be prosecuted for the right crimes. She deserves that justice.

What do you want people to remember Dusty by? I really, I don't know anybody that really didn't like him. You know, and I didn't know this many people did because, of course, you're the one in the podcast is what made him well-known everywhere. But really, it was just who Dusty was.

It was his character. That's what people liked. Yeah, because he, I mean, that's why people liked his columns, because he made fun of himself. How can you make fun of somebody if they're going to do it first? You know? And some of, I mean, everything he said was true. You know, he didn't cut his grass very often.

You know, he did have Dr. Pepper boxes stacked up on his house. Oh, he definitely had Dr. Pepper boxes. I can attest to that. I helped him drink a couple of those, too. Oh, have you? And he actually would tell me about, like, even college parties and stuff. You know, everybody would be coming in with a 12-pack of beer under their arm, and he'd come in with a 12-pack of Dr. Papers, you know.

Is there anything that people can do to help out? And if they can, how can they do it? One thing is there is on the Up and Vanished discussion board on Facebook a GoFundMe that has been started by someone to donate money to the Irwin County Ocilla Library in Dusty's name. But also, Dina and I are working on this, trying to raise enough money to keep the scholarship going. And we've set up a bank account at the Irwin County State Bank in Osceola. And, you know, even people like churches have given us love offerings, and that's all going in the scholarship money. We want him to continue to be remembered.

Dusty meant a lot to me and everyone else I work with. He really did. And y'all all meant a lot to him as well. You know, it's just so hard. Like I said, we just appreciate y'all, all of y'all with the podcast. And all I can say is I'm just very proud of them. And he was truly the person that people saw.

I mean, you know, like I said, there was nothing fake about him. His dad's sister wrote a letter. She wasn't able to come when he passed for the funeral. And she wrote a letter that she did come when his dad died. And in that letter, she said that she will never forget how even with Dusty going through his grief, that he kept checking on her and asking her if she was okay. And she said she's never forgotten that about Dusty,

about how kind he was to her when he was going through grief of his own from losing his dad. You know? But that's just who he was. And I'm glad of it have you ever tried Dragon the naturally speaking where you speech to text

where it's trying to read what you're saying well I have an iPhone well yeah it does that too but I tried that out it was pretty humorous you didn't know what you were saying? oh no really? oh it was messing it up bad let's have you try to say something It does that too, but I tried that out. It was pretty humorous. You didn't know what you were saying? Oh, no.

Really? Oh, it was messing it up bad, yeah. Let's have you try to say something into my iPhone right now. So hit the little microphone button. I'm trying to think of what I should say. Just say, my name is Dusty Vassie, and I work for the Osola Star. My name is Dusty Vassie, and I work for the Osola Star. Did you do it? Did you get it?

Read it My name is Destiny USA And I work for those little star My name And now it's saying what I'm saying Maybe it's the accent or something I don't know I think people mostly enjoy your voice It seems like I don't know. I don't know. I think people mostly enjoy your voice, it seems like.

Yeah, I don't know why. I find Dr. Godwin's... I enjoy Dr. Godwin's voice. I really do. And I think there are... It's authentic. It's unique. You have that kind of bassy radio voice to me.

Oh, well, thank you. I think you have a podcast voice. See, what does that even mean? That means that my voice is not good enough for radio. No, no. Podcasts is more advanced than radio. Who listens to radio? Nobody. I'm Dusty Vassie, the reporter

for The Ocilla Star. I've lived in Irwin County most of my life. I've never actually lived in Ocilla, but I live 10 miles away, and I work here every day, so pretty familiar with the place. I've learned more about this case since your podcast started than I probably had in 11 years before that. A documentary, people talk about it that week and then forget about it. Your podcast has been going on weekly for three months now or so, right? And people talk about it all the time. Government employees, police officers,

people that work at banks, clerks at stores. I mean, I think there's just like almost an itch to have this, to know what happened, you know? And hopefully this podcast will bring us closer to knowing. Dusty's mom has started a scholarship fund in his name to be awarded to students who pursue their passion in writing,

just like Dusty did. To find out more, or to donate yourself, go to gofundme.com slash donate Dusty. That's gofundme.com slash donate Dusty. All the money goes directly to Dusty's mother, Mandy, and will be used for the scholarship fund. Crypto is like finance, but different. It doesn't care when you invest, trade, or save. Do it on weekends, or at 5 a.m., or on Christmas Day, at 5 a.m. Crypto is finance for everyone, everywhere, all the time.

Kraken, see what crypto can be. Not investment advice. Crypto trading involves risk of loss. Kraken's registration details at kraken.com slash legal slash ca dash pru dash disclaimer. It's winter, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls?

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Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Chanty was going to take me on a trip to the place he's from. From the producer of Megan, Five Nights at Freddy's, and the Black Phone. Alice! Alice! Alice! Get out! Now. Many kids have imaginary friends. Ready or not.

Just because you stop believing in them doesn't mean they're gone. Here he comes. And they're angry you left. Imaginary. Now playing only in theaters. I think it's safe to say that other than the GBI, no one knows more about this case than Maurice Godwin. And no one can comment on the evolution of this case over the past 12 years better than he can. This case has always been very emotional for me, especially the first 10 years when the case was unsolved. It's been still emotional since it's been solved, but not like when it was unsolved. March 10, 2006, was my first day in Osceola.

was my first day in Osceola. I pulled into Tara's driveway, and I felt a huge case on my shoulders. A sense of urgency prevailed mainly because a lot of confidence had been placed in me by her family. I never imagined how huge this case would become and that it would take 11 years to solve. In fact, I didn't think that it would ever be solved. My mind was racing, standing in her yard when I first arrived that first day. My mind was racing with a few theories as I drove to West Park. As I stepped out of my SUV, I glanced over to the spot on the front yard where the latex glove had been found, and I thought, that just didn't make sense to me. Something is not right about this. I grabbed my CSI kit from the trunk and made my way to the front door. I had a key that was given to me by her sister so I could come and go as I

pleased. When I unlocked the door and entered Tara's house, I immediately felt Tara's presence as I glanced at the tall cabinet that held her mistiffened tiara and various photographs of her pageant wins. I looked around the living room and I saw a TV and a VCR housed in a keepsake cabinet. 30 minutes into my visit, the most violent thunderstorm hit Asila. I thought to myself, what have I gotten myself into? I just did a brief walkthrough in the house. It was very, very emotional.

I waited till after the storm passed so it wouldn't be so loud from the thunder and rain hitting the roof and made my way back to Tara's bedroom. You never get over the eerie feeling of walking into a room where a victim is possibly murdered. I was very emotional, possibly murdered. I was very emotional, but soon straightened up and went back to work. It was very, very emotional for me, and it still is. But the emotion now is a lot better than it was during all the years that it was unsolved. And I surfed on top of this. The feeling that you're not welcome in our town was no more evident than when I was intimidated during my first night in the Zilla, when the truck, the headlights at the park, the RV park where I was staying at, was just outside of my bedroom window.

I endured further frustration, additional threats, and all kinds of obstacles while seeking justice for Tara. You know, it's just been very, very difficult for me, but I took a chance. I was in a boat in the ocean with a huge hole in it. And after 10 years, I felt like I was sinking. And when I saw the internet, a post that Payne had done, seeking information, trying to do something like a documentary on the case, I said to myself, something like a documentary on the case, I said to myself, this might be the life, Ralph, that I need to try to do something with this case. And it was. It was. You see where this case is today versus a year ago. The podcast and this Up and Vantage team, in my opinion, is responsible for the status of the Tara Grinstead case as it currently is. said back in 08, this is a case where we don't even know where the haystack is to look for the needle. Really, after 08 or 09, all the media outlets had stopped covering the case until Up and Vanish podcasts started putting out weekly episodes about the case. I want the truth, the truth and nothing but the truth. I want the proper justice for the person who did the killing of this, which is obviously a life without parole. So in the end, I want lengthy jail terms for those directly involved in this case.

Thanks for listening, guys. Today's episode was mixed and mastered by Resonate Recordings. If you want to improve the quality of your podcast or start a podcast of your own, go to ResonateRecordings.com and get your first episode produced for free. Thanks, guys. I'll see you soon.