Up and Vanished - Payne Finds Jon... again

Episode Date: May 15, 2025

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You're listening to a tenderfoot TV podcast. Good morning Facebook. Oregon John aka Layton John. You need to ask me to change something. No, I didn't. I was trying to tell you to get out of my way because you won't listen to reason because you're You know what? You're still watching. Holy moly. He just sent me a video of himself. Charging handle. Oh yeah. himself. We all know how I first found John, with a fake name through a fake Facebook.

I did, however, eventually reach out to John as the real me. All I want is the truth. This is Payne Lindsay. Okay. Payne Lindsay. I'm the podcast guy. Oh. How's it going? Same shit, different day. Question for you, would you ever be down to sit down one on one and just talk to me about everything?

Um, we can set the terms and you know, make it comfortable for both of us, you know, you know, um, all I'd have been true, you honestly, I did too. But this is the last time I spoke to John. On my last call, he gave me his real number. He said he wanted to tell me his truth, but then, nothing. He vanished. Again. And that's the thing about Oregon John.

He doesn't just disappear. He seems to evade, mutate. He only becomes harder to find, and harder to trust. And when he does show up again, you're never really sure who you're talking to. John Gertin isn't just some sketchy name that came up once. He is the last known person to see Florence Okpialik alive. He had her phone, her things, in his tent, and somehow he slipped through the cracks. He made wild accusations, the first time I tracked him down last year.

And even then, I walked away thinking, who is this man? What the hell am I really dealing with? No matter how many different ways you look at Florence's case, it always, always goes back to John. So in classic up and vanish fashion, I found myself in a deja vu state, starting all over again. It was hard enough to find John the first time. This time, surely was not going to be easier. Call has been for- Is that your fucking fax number? I'm so sick of this shit. The number John gave me was blocked.

Or a fax number, I don't know. But of course it was. So what do I do? I first called the homeless shelter in Ketchikan. Hi, this is Ty. I called the shelter and I was given your number, I guess, if I had additional questions. I'm trying to locate one of my friends

who I think may be staying there. So I can't give out any information if someone is staying with us or not. Just as a heads up, I wouldn't be able to confirm or deny you know, if I did give it to him or anything like that. So what is the person's name you're looking for? His name is John Gertin. Okay.

Hold on. John Gertin. One second. Let me look at something like that. One second. So I can actually say that he is not staying with us. He is currently not a client with us. Is there anywhere else in town that is a similar establishment where he may be? No. No.

We're the only shelter in town, unfortunately. establishment where he may be? Missing persons thing. Kind of ironic. But I guess John was missing too. He isn't a missing person per se. I would qualify it more like a hiding person. Okay, yeah, yeah, I get you. I was trying to remember why the name sounds so familiar. And I do recall there was a big flubbub, oh, that was a while ago, sometime last year,

and his name was splashed across Facebook, Ketchikan related things, podcasts, and I do know that every once in a while his name pops back up on those things because people were pretty concerned about him obviously. And I feel like there was some reports of some at least peculiar behavior if not concerning behaviors. That's interesting. I would definitely keep an eye on like Ketchikan community news. But no no look there on to the next part of my plan Let's just do what always seems to never work and call the police department You have reached the catch can correctional Center for an attendant press zero Please spell the offenders first name using your telephone keypad. I'm sorry, I can't find the offender you are searching for.

Well, that's a whole bunch of shit. Administration, press zero. Booking, press zero. Booking press one. Catch Can't Stay Correct from Center Staff. Sergeant Bailey, how may I help you? Hey Sergeant Bailey, how you doing? My name is Payne. I'm trying to locate a man named John Gertin and I'm curious if he has been booked. There's been no Gertin here. Do you know the best way to either online or through your establishment find out the records of this?

Do you know where he resides? He's in Ketchikan? He's in Ketchikan, yes. You said his last name was what? It's Gertan. It's spelled G-E-R-T-O-N. What's his first name? John, just J-O-N. Okay, so I have a John Gertin from January 15th of 2025, born in Portland.

That's him. That's the last time he was here, and he was released on January 15th. Arrested for violating a restraining protective order. So his case is not adjudicated, meaning that he's not been sentenced. The judge hasn't made a formal judgment related to this case. He was arrested at 241 Avenue, Door Dash, driver, looking at this form shows that I

fingerprinted him on January 15th. John was arrested in Ketchikan, currently out on bail. Jesse as a friend is just emergency contact with no number associated. Another name, another rabbit hole. Jesse, Jesse, Jesse. Hello? Hey, is this Jesse? No, wrong number.

Okay, bro, you're getting a call back. Is this Jesse? No, wrong number. Okay, bro, you're getting a call back. The mailbox is full and cannot accept any messages at this time. I bet it is. Goodbye. Goodbye to you too. Was that weird? Or am I letting my own frustrations get to me here? I didn't like the way that call ended.

If John's living with this guy, I need to know that. James? James? Can you hear me, man? Yeah. Okay, you don't have a brother named Jesse? No. Okay.

My records show that you do. James? Yeah? I don't know who that is. I can't help you. Why not? Why can't you help me? James?

Give me a lot of help out there. Okay. His friend's address, which might be where he lives. Holy shit, yes it is. That's the same place that John wanted me to meet him at months ago. Property detail, yes. Rental property, number of residence 19. John Allen Gurdon. Got your ass. Now, what's the smartest way to get a hold of him. I need to find a way to send a safe professional person, a private investigator, a process server, somebody on my behalf to go to John's door,

hand him a burner phone, and tell him to fucking call me. Hi, so I just got off the phone with Otto. He likes to talk. So it took a while. He states that guy doesn't live up there. This is when I brought in Clyde. He's a process server, professional, tactical, and most importantly, local. I told him the whole story, everything. He didn't hesitate. Another guy named Jesse,

the name John Gertin gave the police as his contact, very well could be staying with this guy. I know Jesse and his wife and um, I wouldn't think he'd be staying with them. Um, but who am I? Well, at least we have an in here. I will say that John has a history of doing cab driving, taxi driving. I've got no problem with, you know, going to the Ketchikan Lake Road and asking Jesse or Crystal, whoever comes to the door, if John's living there. He's not in trouble for anything, but he promised to have a conversation with me, and now I haven't

been able to track him down. Really I'm trying to make contact with him and give him the means to contact me." At this point my plan was evolving. I wanted Clyde to find John however possible and give him a package from me, inside a simple one page note in a prepaid phone that John can call me on. It wouldn't surprise me if a phone was given to Jesse, then John comes back home later, and John's like, oh yeah, this guy's crazy, throw that away, blah blah blah blah blah. So, do you want to get me this phone?

I first need to give Clyde the actual phone itself, but I am worried about Clyde giving it to anyone else other than John himself. Hey, just to let you know, AT&T doesn't sell burner phones. AT&T sells prepaid phones at Walmart, then you take the phone to the AT&T store, they give you a phone number and you pick a plan you want. Any plan. I don't care. I'm going to drive out to Walmart, figure this whole thing out.

Okay? Clyde's at Walmart. No, I'll pay right now. She's hooking up the prepaid account. It's got both internet and minutes, she said. I've got this phone. What do you want me to do with it? I actually have a list of instructions that I've just finished writing out for you

to keep it very simple. All attempt service of him at Jesse's house, I will check the court record where the restraining order was served upon him. Maybe now we're getting somewhere. I hope so. I went to Jesse's house, his wife was home. She was adamant that John has never lived there. She definitely knew who he was. Jesse called me, knew who John was. Any inkling as to where he's staying, because he has to be sleeping somewhere.

He's not nowhere. He's in Ketchikan. He believes he's living in his car. I've seen this car before. I know exactly what it looks like. I'm just driving by an early 90's Subaru Outback. I'm sending you two pictures in a video. It's white and it's looking like it's worse for wear and tear

and it's obvious that somebody is likely living in there. Hold on. Hold on. Oh yeah, there's a dude in there sleeping. Is there somebody humped over in the front seat Hold on. Oh yeah, there's a dude in there sleeping. Is there somebody humped over in the front seat so he's either dead or sleeping, one or the other. He found a white 90s Subaru, beat up, sun-fated, with a man hunched over in the front seat.

John? John? Hey. Hey. Look at me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you John? I am, what's up there?

Okay, wake up. It's okay. What's your name? Ted. Oh, you're Ted? Where'd you get this car from? My friend, my Oh, my friend. Hey, Ted.

Okay, who's your friend? Daniel. Oh, Daniel? Because I thought this was John's car. I thought it was John's car too. How many white Subarus were in Ketchikan? Discover the magic of Bet MGM Casino, where the excitement is always on deck. Pull up a seat and check out a wide variety of table games with a live dealer. From Roulette to Blackjack, watch as a dealer hosts your table game and live chat with them throughout your experience to feel like you are actually at the casino. The excitement doesn't stop there, with over 3,000 games to choose from, including fan favorites like Cash Eruption, UFC Gold Blitz, and more.

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I'm Chico Felitti. You can listen to Don't Cross Cat on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Last year, a listener of Up and Vanished who lives in Ketchikan, sent me pictures and video of John's car. I need to confirm if this is actually his car or not and also where those pictures and video were actually taken. Sorry for the random call. If you have two minutes, I'd love to chat. It's kind of urgent. I'd love to chat. It's kind of urgent. So I texted her and just FaceTimed her. Hell yes.

Did you mean to FaceTime me? I did. Okay. I'm like, there's a 310 number calling me. I don't know who it is. And then I said Payne Lindsay and I'm like, oh Oh, that's that podcast. You're like that guy. How can I help you today? Maybe this listener, a local in Ketchikan, can confirm whether or not this is actually John's car. It's listeners just like her, who truly make a difference in these cases. And her willingness to help out of nowhere is the exact energy we need to solve this thing. She FaceTimed in another friend. This lady told me that she saw John's car parked

at the local McDonald's literally yesterday. She was around the corner from that same McDonald's, so she pulled up. I just ordered some food. I'm sitting at a table. I can see him in that camel coat he's always wearing. Sure enough, there he was, John Gertin, sitting in a chair eating lunch.

We do live on an island and driving around town, and there he was sitting in McDonald's. Okay, this situation just went from urgent to frantic. I called Clyde. He's at the McDonald's right now, but he's finishing his meal and he's about to leave. One of our fellow listeners in Ketchikan stayed at McDonald's on the phone with me. John was getting up. He was done eating. Then he walked out the door. This cannot be how this ends. Clyde, please get there.

Hey John. Oh jeez. You scared me sir. Clyde pulls up just in time. Hey my name's Clyde. Yes. Hey I was asked to drop this off with you. The brand new phone with a note in it. And I was just, somebody dropped it by my office today and asked me to get it to you. Okay? Somebody thought it'd be a funny idea, when I'm Facebook on Catch Can Community Cycle,

that I was a murderer. You're a murderer? And I've got federal credentials. Who's your murderer? Some girl in Nome. Oh, OK. I lived up there for four years with a gold miner. I started receiving death threats.

People hit me with their car. So I went up to the police. But I mean, you didn't murder this chick up there. No, no, no. The police goes, yeah, we already heard about this. We ran a complete investigation. Nome Police Department doesn't even know who you are. Um, well that's not true.

Now, he just has to take the package. I got robbed by a homeless person out here and I pressed charges. Well how do you get robbed by a homeless person, man? You're a pretty big dude. Looks like you could take care of yourself. It was a female. Oh, okay. And, it was a female.

And I don't hit women. Thanks for letting us know. It's funny the way he talks so openly. Clyde shook John's hand and left. Are you ready to talk? I'm ready to talk. Okay, it's all taken care of. He's got the phone.

And life is grand, I guess. I talked to him for six or seven minutes, and he went on about this, that, and the other thing, he's going to church, his wife is in the Philippines. I said, well, you know, it's a phone with minutes on it, you're good to go, you know, call whoever you want type thing. There's a note there for you also. He just kept talking. He went on about how he got to town, whoever you want type thing. There's a note there for you also.

He just kept talking. He went on about how he got to town and somebody said he was a murderer. I said, who did you murder? And he says something about some girl up in Nome. And I said, well, did you murder? And he goes, no. He goes, I was cleared. But he just went on and on like that.

Clyde's job was done. He successfully delivered the package to Org and John. Hearing the tape from Clyde and John talking felt very reminiscent of my time with John at the local bar. If John Gertin was cleared, I wouldn't even be talking to you today. I know John had the phone. He held it in his hand.

I have video of this. Now all I could do is wait. My mind's going in all different directions. Is he reading my letter? What's he going to think? Is this a lifeline? A trap? A test? All three?

I want to follow up on my end of the deal, giving John one last chance to clear the air about everything. Despite being thousands of miles away, this was the closest I'd been to him in months. Hello? Hi, is this, uh, Payne? This is Payne. Is this John? Yes, sir. So you got the phone?

Yeah. I...I...I... believe in telling the truth as much as I can remember it or anything. You know what I'm saying? I want to get down a brass tacks again. Because... Yeah.

Like, I don't want to keep doing this, you know? I really reached out to this degree to try to give you a chance to say anything that you wanted or needed to say so that you don't go down as the bad guy. I could not fathom how much it would take to even do something let alone so cleanly. You know what I mean? That's impossible. How is this where nobody knows nothing? You know what I'm saying? There's no proof of

anything you know you know I mean I mean cuz I you know that's what my boggles me so much why my biggest question is why? What do you mean? Why would somebody choose her? He's the last person to see Florence Okpialik alive. He had her phone, her thanks, inside his tent. His stories don't make sense. He doesn't have an alibi. He made wild accusations, paranoid rants, rambling stories that didn't line up.

He played the victim, claimed he was being framed, and maybe he believes that. Or maybe some of what he's saying is true. That night, I talked to John for hours. And then, hours again the next night. All these calls are recorded, and you're going to get to hear them. And right now, John says he's ready to talk in a different way. In person, man to man, face to way. In person. Man to man. Face to face.

To finally tell me his truth. So this week, we're meeting. And hopefully, I walk away with the answers I need to solve Florence's case once and for all. But here's the thing with John. Which version of him am I going to get? What version of the truth is he ready to tell? Because this isn't just about finding John. It's about finding out

who John really is. And what, if anything, he had to do with Flo's disappearance. Just when I thought I had my hands full with Oregon John, another bombshell dropped. My brother on my dad's side, he was married to Kim Piscoia during the time Joseph went missing. I really think he knows something about the truck, Joseph's truck, but the Piscoias have a good grip on him. But the Piscoys have a good grip on him. He's not coming forward every time I bring it up to him. He's very hush-hush. I think he parked it. He helped park Joseph's vehicle. I think he didn't know what he was even doing at the time.

My gut feelings are almost always right. You really need to talk to my brother. Oh, don't worry, we already did. Keep your friends close. Stay tuned for another update this week on when to expect the next episode. But I promise you, the team and I are busting our ass, and our number one priority is that we do this right. I'm meeting with John Gertin this week. In the meantime, you can follow my Instagram for faster updates, my handle is at painlindsey, and the same for Up and Vanished.

At Up and Vanished. Talk soon.