Up and Vanished - Q&A: 12.03.18

Episode Date: December 4, 2018

Payne and team have a round table discussion to answer listener questions. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get ready for Las Vegas style action at BetMGM, the king of online casinos. Enjoy casino games at your fingertips with the same Vegas strip excitement MGM is famous for. When you play classics like MGM Grand Millions or popular games like Blackjack, Baccarat and Roulette with our ever-growing library of digital slot games, a large selection of online table games, and signature BetMGM service. There is no better way to bring the excitement and ambience of Las Vegas home to you than with BetMGM Casino. Download the BetMGM Casino app today. BetMGM and GameSense remind you to play responsibly. BetMGM.com for Ts and Cs.

19 plus to wager. O-N only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to any operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. from tenderfoot tv in Atlanta, this is Up and Vanish Q&A. Hi, Meredith and Payne. Great job on season two.

My name is Chrissy. I'm calling from a suburb of Chicago. I wanted to ask, I know you're both responsible in terms of not disclosing hearsay or speculation, but I wanted to know if Crystal's close family and friends are all on the same page with what actually happened to her, your theories. Do you all align on what you're pretty sure happened, Or are there still some different theories that close friends or family of Crystal think may have happened? Thanks. I think people like Rodney have probably driven themselves crazy with trying to figure out exactly what happened that night. But I think the family definitely agrees on this group of people being involved. It seems like the general consensus is that Crystal's family, regardless of what exactly happened, they don't know. We don't know for sure either, but this group of people and certain names involved in this, they all agree on that.

But there's still too many unanswered questions to hypothesize beyond a certain extent. And I think at this point, the family's focus is finding Crystal and getting more players in this circle to talk so they can figure out exactly what happened. Yeah. And you update them on whatever we hear and tell them what you think about XYZ account, so they know your feelings on it. And they seem to be pretty much in line with our teams. So they know your feelings on it and they seem to be pretty much in line with our teams. Hey, guys, this is Megan from Fort Worth, Texas. Just a quick question. A name that we heard come up in multiple episodes, almost every episode, this Dretty Brian.

He was also thrown under the bus a few times by a catfish. So I think that he plays a crucial role in this case. I was wondering if you guys were ever able to track him down or find out where he is. I've heard some rumors, but you guys are out there in the field, so you'd know better than any of us. I just feel like you'd be a really great person to talk to about this disappearance. So I was just curious. Thank you so much. Yeah, I mean, I couldn't agree more that Dreddy Bryan should talk. He's been basically hiding under a rock this whole podcast season. And his family and friends are very aware that we've been trying to talk to him.

But it's clear that he just doesn't want to talk. Now, that's his right. But if someone like Catfish is accusing him of confessing to murdering Crystal, you would think that he would want to answer that. But yeah, he's just one of the people who refused to talk to us. Yeah. And he's not he's not in the area anymore is what we've found. So that adds another layer of, you know, making it difficult to talk to this person. They're not around where this happened anymore, not around these people anymore. They're clearly dissociating themselves.

Hello. I wanted to say that I really enjoyed this season. I'm glad that you're covering a person who would not normally get covered by the news. My question was about the eyewitness who saw the van with catfish out with the shovel on the rainy night. One thing that stood out to me was that he said that he saw it that night, like he was messaging the deputy the same night that he saw it happened. But I don't remember there ever being

a date said. And if he saw it that night, it seems like it would be a pretty good eyewitness since this would be before the rumor mill had started up. I was just wondering what date was on the message that he sent. When did that happen? Because that would be a good way of pinpointing when Crystal actually disappeared. Anyways, thank you. So my understanding is that this event happened a while after Crystal went missing, like a month? The date of this incident was always in question when we first got this information. And it took me a while to figure out exactly when this incident

with the van actually occurred. From what I found, it seems like it was in the first week of September, which I found that date a little strange. Considering she went missing in July. Yes. We have heard rumors of Crystal's body being moved a couple different times. So, you know, I really don't know. To me, it would make more sense if it happened in July around the time she went missing. But for someone to be moving Crystal's body in September seems a little odd to me. Yeah, I mean, I've asked them tons of questions about this, trying to get to the exact scenario of what happened, when it happened, and just the likelihood of it being something nefarious.

I think either way, this person did witness this. Was it Crystal's body? I'm not sure. But if it happened in September, I feel like the likelihood of it being Crystal goes down a little bit. Are we saying that Crystal's body was somewhere near his house for a month? And I don't know. It just doesn't really make enough sense to me. But either way, I think that it's weird. You know, what was this person, whoever it was, moving in the middle of the night?

Really quickly. In the pouring rain. Speeding. It is weird. It's a weird story. But I do agree, like, the likelihood becomes a little fuzzier when it's months removed. It's also important to note, I think, that this incident isn't really why we're focusing on these people.

This is just an additional story that popped up after a bunch of other red flags were there. So this story could be completely irrelevant. And in my opinion, it does not take away from the focus we've had this whole time. I don't think that it changes anything in that sense. The van story is interesting. It's weird. You know, is it related to Crystal's disappearance? I don't know. But I think even if it wasn't, it doesn't really change anything. I mean, if Crystal went missing and your neighbor is with this person of interest and you witness something very strange shortly after she goes missing, you know, at night, in the rain like that,

your first inclination is that, hey, they're probably getting rid of her body. My first inclination would be this is related. Hi, OpenVenus group. This is Rodrigo from Brazil. And one point that caught my attention is the lack of evidence in this case. And the few possible evidence there is are in possession of the Bureau of Investigation.

Does that indicate that the cell phone and other items the CBI has doesn't lead to anything? Thank you. Keep up the good work. So to be clear, the CBI has all the evidence in this case now, most notably Crystal's cell phone. I think that whatever's on her cell phone is relevant in this case, even if it's been tampered with or things have been deleted. When a person goes missing, the last calls and texts on their phone are important pieces of information.

I don't think because the CBI hasn't commented as to what's on her phone that there isn't anything of value there. To be clear, the CBI has not commented on anything. They have not stated any of the evidence they have. Just because they haven't showed their hand doesn't mean they don't have anything. Or doesn't mean that there's not some sort of clue or damning piece of evidence on her phone. My biggest fear is that somewhere in the early stages of her disappearance, in those first few weeks in July, that someone may have tampered with her phone. But at least we've told these stories now. So if they are in fact true,

they're considering that. Also. Yeah. Thanks for calling from Brazil. That's awesome. Hi pain. This is Elaine from Georgia. I just had a quick question about season two and just the season in general.

My question is, how do you go about and how did you pick the case for crystal? Out of all the missing people cases in the United States, what made you pick Crystal's case and what type of things do you decide on when going about picking a case? Great podcast. Thank you so much. Well, firstly, I thought there were some strong similarities to Tara's case right off the bat with it being a very small town. Also the fact that her cell phone and her purse and everything was essentially in her home where she lived and she just wasn't there anymore. I think that general premise is always very bizarre and it piqued my interest and it seemed like there was foul play just like Tara's case. I thought that

the setting here was very unique and something different. And I really wanted to explore the kind of lifestyle that was in Crestone and how that may have affected what happened to her. I felt that there was a lot to explore here that was different and interesting. And I found Crystal herself very unique and interesting. And when I first started looking into the case and reached out to the family, everything started clicking, basically. And people were very interested in helping me out and telling me their story and wanting to be involved in the podcast. That was a big plus. And to me, it just, in my gut, felt right.

So we kept going. I think it's interesting to see when you're looking at season one and season two, I think it's interesting to see when you're looking at season one and season two, there's two women around the same age that have made very different choices in their lives and lived very different paths. And so I think that's, you know, when you were looking for which case to do for season two, it seemed like a good move to explore someone who just lived a very different lifestyle. And they also something egregious happened to them and what is that like what is it like to have a small town with not as much law enforcement presence and you know really out there bad cell reception like how do all these factors play into what happened to this woman now i also felt that because this place is so remote and there is that lack of police presence here, that we could really make a difference coming here. You know, we come here and dig around, poke around and start telling the story to millions of listeners.

Certainly something is going to shake loose. And I feel like throughout the 12 episodes we did, we learned a lot. And in a case like Crystalstals, I feel like it needs this kind of attention. And I think that when certain players involved in the case get that kind of attention and are put on a platform like this, they're met with something that they've never experienced before and would never get otherwise. In big cities, when people go missing, sometimes, not all the time, they can become a bigger story in the local media there. But in this tiny place, it would likely go

extremely cold. And unless someone came forward and confessed or someone stumbled upon some damning evidence on their own, it could be unsolved for a very long time. So I feel like coming here and putting a real big spotlight on a place and a case that wouldn't have it otherwise, we can make a big difference that way. Well, it's interesting too, like Osceola to Atlanta is a similar distance from, as Crestone to Denver. It's pretty close. And it's interesting because though their proximity to a big city is similar, Crestone feels far more remote. And they're both as still as tiny too.

Crestone, you get the feeling that it's going to take you a little while to get to a hospital if something happened. Right? Didn't we learn that there's a doctor in Crestone? But there's no hospital. The hospital's like 45 minutes away in Swatch.

That's not like what it's like in Ocilla. Yeah, I mean, if you had a bad accident in Crestone, you're looking at likely at least an hour before someone sees you. Yeah. Before you're in a hospital. Getting that kind of treatment. Hey guys, I'm just wondering if the early episode on Crestone, Yeah, before you're in a hospital, getting that kind of treatment. Hey, guys.

I'm just wondering if the early episode on Crestone, particularly the open-air cremation segment and the comment from an interview later in the series stating, quote, they will never find a body, end quote, go hand in hand. I know they're still searching for Crystal's remains and your team has participated, but I can't determine if the inclusion of the subject of cremation was coincidental or purposeful on your part. Thanks. That's really interesting because it's one of the first things we heard about when we went down there as like a feature, a unique feature of Crestone is that they have this non-denominational public open air cremation service that they do. And clearly it's actually like something that's really important to people. And they they like choose this for the end of their lives. Then it happened that we heard other kind of rumors about, you know, possible methods of disposal. It wasn't really connected, but it is interesting that that those experiences seemed possibly linked In a place like Crestone, your mind kind of runs wild with the options

and the places someone could be because it is so, the lifestyle is so different there, the terrain is so mountainous. You think, I mean, how could you ever find this person? And so I understand why your mind might go there. I didn't know when I interviewed someone from the crest on end of life project that Calvin would later make that comment you know it has a spiritual edge to it and you think well I don't know what that means it doesn't feel like something that would happen in a city yeah I think it was unique for you to explore because in this remote area like this, that kind of stuff happens.

There are open cremations here legally. That does not happen in Osceola or Atlanta or Denver. Right, but that being said, they are heavily regulated. So I know a lot of, I've seen some commentary and kind of like, maybe that's what happened to Crystal, but it's like a really public pyre. Like you have to have, it's people that have like a license to do this. They're like able to do this. It's an organized thing. It's not something that would happen and no one would notice.

Like the whole town knows when one is happening. They're scheduled. They have like a calendar for it. So, and it's not just, you can't just do it everywhere in Crestone. It's this one particular site. So I think that's also important to note. I think by no means was Crystal's body destroyed in an open cremation like you're talking about. But I do think it's interesting that these kinds of things happen here. I think the point,

I think what you can draw from this is that in a place like Crestone with the landscape and the terrain, something like burning a body could likely go unnoticed. Or there's places where you could do that where no one would see you or know it's happening. And on top of that, there is this sort of culture there where this happens in a professional legal way. And that's just unique. To your point, no relation on our part in the terms of planting a seed or anything, but we do find it interesting. Experience basketball like never before

with BetMGM, an authorized gaming partner of the NBA. Ready to shoot your shot? We've made the BetMGM experience more immersive and fun for all types of basketball fans. Being on the sidelines is one thing. This season, experience basketball on the foul line, exciting state-of-the-art live tracking technology, and dozens of sportsbook selections await you at BetMGM Sportsbook. Tap into every game on your mobile devices.

Get up off the sideline and drive to the basket yourself. No matter which team starts popping off, you'll find out why there's truly nothing like laying up a W with the king of sportsbooks. Visit betmgm.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone else close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. Hey, I'm Tom Power. I'm the host of the CBC podcast Q with Tom Power. I get to talk to artists from all over the world, writers, musicians, actors, directors, all kinds of creative people. And we try to have the conversations you have, musicians, actors, directors, all kinds of creative people.

And we try to have the conversations you have with really, really good friends. The conversations you have when you share a love of something, about ideas, when you want to hear about everything. I feel really lucky to have these conversations. Cue with Tom Power, available now on Spotify. Hi, this is Melissa from Conyers, Georgia. I was just calling to ask a couple of questions. One, Catfish mentioned that Crystal had vanished or disappeared before and was found at Disneyland, but I don't remember hearing that in any of the other podcasts. So is that so? Has she disappeared before and been found somewhere else? Also, Catfish mentioned Big Cat.

How come he wasn't mentioned previously? Did he ever come up with an explanation for that? Thank you. Appreciate this podcast. We love it. Bye. So Crystal was known to go on these walkabouts where she would go out into nature and meditate for long periods of time. And someone suggested she did it without like food and water, too.

So, yes, those things happened before, but it was not like this. It wasn't like she was missing for weeks on end. Crystal never went to Disneyland. Crystal never went on a walkabout and then turned up in Disneyland. Yeah, that's states away. That's nonsense. That's just catfish rambling nonsense. I think that's just sarcasm is what it is.

I don't know what he finds funny about all this. To my knowledge, the first person to mention Big Cat at all is only Catfish himself. You know, I've asked him about that several times since the first time he told me and he sticks with it that crystal was at his house and then she went to go leave and she was going to meet a guy named big cat but little details about that story have always been changed from catfish's, one of which is the time. He tells me that she walks over there barefoot at three in the morning, and then they stayed up till noon the next day, and she went to go see Big Cat. And then another time he told me that she left in the middle of the night to go see Big Cat, and she was going to see this guy Big Cat. And then in another version, he told me that Big Cat was outside in the car, already there.

So I don't know. I don't know why he's fixated on this or if any of it is true. But Big Cat himself completely denies it. Also, I think it's interesting that Big Cat told me that he would confront Catfish on the phone directly about this. And when I tried to arrange that, Catfish blocked Big Cat. So he's cool with making this accusation, just like the accusation about Dreddy Bryan, but he's not cool with talking to the person about it. Hi, Payne and Meredith and crew.

This is James from Maryland. Great work on the second season. Thanks for bringing this case to light. My question is in regards to the guy who wanted $5,000 for the video and other information. Now, I'm no legal expert, but isn't that some form of extortion? Can't the authorities bring this guy in and interview him about the information he has? And if he refuses to talk, is that hindering the investigation? Is there any recourse for withholding that?

Anyway, thanks again, and I can't wait for season three. Based on my knowledge, he didn't break any laws in asking for the $5,000 for his information. He didn't threaten me in any way. He basically said, hey, I know what happened to Crystal. I've seen this video and I've heard this audio recording and I will tell you all of this in detail if you give me $5,000. Obviously, I don't trust this person and there's a $20,000 reward for information, I find it suspicious that he would want $5,000 sent directly to him for this information and he doesn't want to go through the proper channels for more money to tell the story to authorities. So yeah,

to answer your question, I don't think he extorted me for anything. He just presented a scenario where he could make $5,000 and avoid talking to the cops. and disloyal to one another. And they've also been taking a lot of drugs, some willingly and unwillingly. This is a big change from Georgia. So how are you handling this dynamic in your interviews and overall approach to this case? Thank you. Yeah, why am I not invited to the lunch discussion group?

Actually, I think I know who you guys are. If you're the group that tagged me in a picture on Twitter one time that I responded to, and I think you did invite me to it. Well, anyways, my approach has been, really, don't trust anyone. I found that every one of these people seems to have their own motives, and they're only looking out for themselves. motives, and they're only looking out for themselves. And if you analyze that a little bit, you could speculate that likely a few of them, a handful of them, meaning more than one, are involved in this somehow. And they all have their own personal reasons for not divulging the details. Maybe the levels of involvement vary. But like you said, because of all this drug use and just the general nature of these individuals,

don't believe everything they're telling you. But I think in all the statements they've made, there is a little bit of truth riddled in there. I think that there's seeds of truth that are coming out. And you can drive yourself crazy trying to dissect it all. Hey, Meredith and Payne, this is Erin calling from Boise, Idaho. Really big fan of the show. I have a quick question. I don't know if I made the cutoff for the bonus episode, but I have a question about conversations with Catfish and Big Cat. It sounds like when you're having these conversations, the way they're answering the questions is really rushed. And I think that really speaks to kind of their thoughts behind your questions.

Obviously, we know Catfish is and he's very defensive. He obviously has some emotional stability issues. I was wondering if any of the conversations were edited for time purposes or if you are just playing them as the person is talking, because I think that kind of the way they're answering the questions is really telling. But again, I don't know if any of it is being edited just for time's sake, or if that's really how they're talking. So anyway, love the show. Thanks so much.

Bye-bye. That's a good question. Most of what you're hearing in the podcast has been edited in the sense of I may talk to a person for four hours. One of those people was Catfish. I had a four hour conversation with him one time. To play four hours of Catfish to you guys would not be helpful in any way. And so what we've done is listen back and find the important parts and the relevant parts of the conversations and play you those. Nothing's been edited in the sense of changing the way it sounds or feels for you when it comes to their reactions to hard pressing questions.

We always make a really strong point with keeping the authenticity of the call. Nothing's ever been manipulated or anything like that, but everything's always edited in the sense of we're playing you excerpts of it, playing you this portion of the conversation. We might play a five-minute segment from hour one of a phone call when I asked him about Crystal. And then he may have gone on to talk about computers for another hour and a half. And then in hour two, I asked him about that again. And then you're hearing that there. So it's more or less a selection of the relevant parts of the conversations. The last 10 minutes of episode 12, where Catfish is sort of going off on this tangent about whatever he's talking about, that actually wasn't a phone

conversation with me. I really wasn't on the other end of that. He was sending me voice messages on Facebook, and he was trying to get a hold of me. And my phone actually was dying at the time. And he was sort of freaking out about that and really wanting to get a hold of me. And so what you're hearing is him sending me basically 55 to 60 second snippets of audio of him talking to me. And occasionally I would say something back on messenger, but really only ever referring to my phone is dying. You can hear him say at one point, if you don't call me back, something, something. And that's because I was talking to him about that. But that was a unique situation where he was just sending me audio clips of himself talking.

Hey, guys, I just wanted to know if you were going to talk any more, you know, about your intern, Hallie. She sounds like super cool. And I'd just love to hear more about her. OK, thanks. You guys are doing a great job this season. Bye. That sounds eerily familiar. Well, anonymous caller, that's a great question. I think we'll consider talking more about Hallie in future episodes. I think so, too. Bye,

Hallie. Bye, Hallie. Hello, my name is Erin, and I am from Aurora, Colorado, and have been following season two, and my question was, did you ever talk to the Matthew guy that was mentioned early on in the season that the landlord had talked to who came by drunk and was looking for

crystal a couple of days after she disappeared. And he was also mentioned very briefly in the last episode, wondering if you were able to get a hold of him and talk to him and see what he knew. And if he had any more information on it. Love the episode, love the season and can't wait to hear the Q&A. Bye. That is a great question. I've been trying to talk with Matthew for months now. That is a great question. I've been trying to talk with Matthew for months now, and I'm actually going to pull out my phone right now and give you a little glimpse into my attempts to talk to him. On October 6th, I said, Hey, Matt, this is Payne Lindsey. I'm doing a podcast about Crystal's disappearance, and I'm trying to talk to those who knew her. Aura, her landlord, spoke highly of you and told me I should

reach out. I called him several times after that. I messaged him on Facebook. He accepted my initial request on Facebook, but didn't respond to my messages. And then a few weeks later on October 22nd, he texts me and says, who's this? And I said, it's Payne. Then he says, oh, right. Aura and a few people have been telling me to get ahold of you. And I said, yeah. Do you want to talk? No response. And since then, he's just completely ghosted. And he also sent me a message on Facebook that I won't really get into, but basically expressing his distaste for me and the podcast and my motives. And I just responded with, hey, man, I want to hear your side of the story. I think that you may be a pivotal piece to the puzzle. And if Crystal was your friend, I think it would be very helpful if you can lay out your version of the events.

But he just never got back to me and never wanted to do it. So yeah, I've tried to reach out, but he just doesn't want to talk. I'm not by any means saying that it means anything by him not talking. That's his right. He can do that. But he has communicated with me before in a strange manner. And whenever I go to talk to him about what happened to Crystal or what he knows, he just goes silent. But like we've all seen in this case, that's pretty common. like we've all seen in this case, that's pretty common. Hi, I'm Sarah from Colorado Springs, Colorado. First off, thank you so much for doing what you're doing.

I really, really appreciate it and keep up the great work. My question is, what would it take to prosecute this case? I know that you don't have to have a body to win a case anymore, but would it take a body and then the corroboration, like confession? It just seems like everybody in town knows who did it. And anyway, I'm just wondering what you think it would take to get this to trial, if that is at all possible. Thanks again. All right. Bye-bye. That's a great question. This isn't really my wheelhouse per se, but in my opinion, I think if they found Crystal's body and or had a credible eyewitness to what happened to her, then they could 100% prosecute in this case. I think until then, law enforcement is going to

have to continue poking around and gathering bits and pieces, just like we have, to try to put together a realistic version of events of what happened to her. I think until they have evidence like that, it will be a very difficult case to prosecute, even if they have a hunch on who is involved, which I believe they do. They don't want to jeopardize their case by it not being strong enough. But I feel good about it because I know that they're actively pursuing it and they're looking into new leads all the time. And I think that it is just a matter of time before they have enough to prosecute somebody.

Hey, UAV team. First time caller, long time listener, Bryce here in St. Louis, Missouri. I got a question about a article that just came out of the Center Post, looks like near Crestone, that they got an email from Valley Publishing with detailed info on a possible location of Crystal's body. I'm just wondering if you guys have any insight on that

or know any more about the tip that was received or anything about that. I appreciate you guys. Enjoy the show. Keep it up. To those who aren't a part of the Facebook group and may have not seen this, there was essentially an email sent to a few reporters in Colorado and some of the local newspapers. And they also cc'd me in the email. And what it is, is basically someone who claims to be an expert of sorts who has experience in finding people and locating bodies and stuff like that. It seems like it's essentially an educated guess of where her body might be. But they sent screenshots of the location, and I'm not sure what information they're basing any of this on,

but I think at the end of the day, this is just someone's perspective, someone's point of view on where they think Crystal may be. I'm not sure if it's based on any real intel, but what happened is that they emailed this information to one of the local papers and they decided to publish a story that said they received a tip and that's basically the end of it. But for the record, I do know that law enforcement has this information also. So if there is any truth to it, or it is where she is, law enforcement will be looking into it. It's important to note that we've had several emails in that same vein throughout the course of the podcast. You'd be surprised how many people email

with their two cents on where she might be. And we always look into it. We always read it. But most of the time, it's just someone's opinion. It's not really based on inside information. And so to do the right thing, you have to explore all the leads. But at the end of the day, if it's not based on anything valid in the first place, chances are it's just an educated guess at best. Even if it's just ruling one thing out, even if the tip is we think her body's here and they go check and she's not there. Well, they've ruled that place out now. So I think that it's a good thing that people are talking and people are actively trying

to figure out where she is and what happened. And I think that eventually, somewhere down the line, there will be that tip, there will be that piece of information that is true, that is the correct answer. And to get to that point, you have to go through all this first. So I think either way, it's positive. Yeah, I mean, oftentimes, these kind of cases are solved when someone witnesses something, and they don't know for sure if they should come forward with that information because they don't have all the other pieces. So, yeah, I don't want anyone to be discouraged from sending their information to the authorities or to us, whoever it is. Oftentimes someone sees something and it's out of context to the bigger picture.

and it's out of context to the bigger picture. And if we or the authorities have that bigger picture, then it may mean something entirely different. And it could be that missing piece that could solve it. So I think it's a great thing that people are thinking about this, talking about this, and having the courage to come forward with what they think may be helpful. Thank you.