Up and Vanished - Q&A - UAV Live : 11.20.17

Episode Date: November 21, 2017

On this Q&A episode, we take the best questions from the audience at our UAV Live Tour stops around the country. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone else close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor, free of charge. Hey guys, Rob here. hey guys rob here the creepy voice guy that talks to you joking no i won't do that to you as you know up and vanish live has been on tour for the last few months it has been an amazing experience meeting fans sharing new content and answering all your questions. If you

haven't been able to make a show yet, we still have nine more left in December, so please don't miss out. We'll be hitting Nashville, Texas, the East Coast, and of course, Tenderfoot TV's hometown of Atlanta, Georgia. You'll get the chance to see Payne, along with your favorites Maurice

Godwin and Philip Holloway. I'm also along for the ride as the master of ceremonies, so I'll get to meet you guys too. Today's episode will give you a taste of the tour experience. This episode is Q&A straight from the live show, featuring questions from none other than you guys. And before we get into it, I'd love to tell you a little bit about the ins and outs of the show from my perspective. As the emcee, I'm the liaison between the audience and the Up and Vantage team. And it's been so cool to see such a range of cities' energy experience your culture and understand that every one of us have different questions about this case. It's an experience like none other.

You're going to see things you've never seen before and, well, hear things you've never heard before. But don't just take my word for it. Come see for yourself. Now time for the Q&A. Let's get right into it. All right. So we want to bring out the doctor in the house, if that's okay for a Q&A. The doctor of style, the Dr. Maurice Godwin. Hello. Hello. Esquire, Phillip Holloway. And our DP, Payne Lindsey. Yes, sir.

Bo Duke's girlfriend? Brooke. Brooke, yeah. Yes. She's a piece of work. So you had a discussion with her, and she was kind of trying to justify the body thing, and you kind of went off on her? Sort of. Your morality came through without her thing.

Yeah, it happened. That was a game changer, I think, for a lot of people, how they viewed you. I agree with that. I didn't really know that at the time. I genuinely thought that that was okay. And I still feel it was okay. So that's how I feel,

honestly. My question is, throughout this whole process, is there any kind of legal way that we can make this woman pay for? Because she was involved. I mean, she knew what was going on. I mean, she...

I know it's Georgia. I mean, that's... I mean... What do you mean, pay for it? She may actually get the reward. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Maybe.

I think that... I mean, I say a lot of things right now. She's probably already paying for it, to be honest with you. I don't think she's paying for it. Living with Bo, yeah. Thank you, sir. We appreciate that.

Yes, ma'am. What was the relevancy of the police uniform that was found? Like, why did you choose to include that in the podcast? That's a good question because I didn't know if it had any relevancy at all. I just thought that it was ironic that there would be a uniform there that would match the same department that had allegedly covered up this crime 10 years prior. I couldn't ever link exactly how that would make any sense, but all I knew was that this was a complete improper way to dispose of a uniform,

and that some people felt that this was important, and they, for a long time never gave me any proof that it actually happened and so when i found out it did happen i was like i i mean i made it clear i was like this is uh i don't know what this has to do with anything but i thought it was weird and maybe it links to something but I more so wanted to just show you guys and also that department, the sheriff's department, that everything is coming out.

Yeah. So, you know, whether it's just this uniform you disposed of improperly or a murder you forgot to report on 12 years ago, it's all coming out, basically. Frodo. Yeah.

Cheers for your question. Yes, ma'am. Hi. When you interviewed Brooke, it seemed like she knew more than she was telling you. And one of the things that she said was she mentioned her car instead of his car when she sort of slipped up. car instead of his car when she sort of slipped up. And it seemed like she might have almost been mentioning Tara's car as a car that was used during this crime. Did you ever press her on that?

She would always just dance around that after I talked to her. And that was kind of towards that call in particular was towards the end of our, when we were friendly, I guess. We were always friendly, but it kind of hit a point where she just didn't want to talk to me as much anymore. That was around that period of time. So I pressed it on her, but she was more concerned about other things. It was very clear to me that after hours and hours of mainly just hearing her talk to me, that she was more or less trying to get her objective across. And she had her own agenda of sorts, maybe in the sense of just influencing me and how I felt about things.

But I think that it all came from a genuinely good place. I think that she really just was in love with this person who is a bad person, which makes it kind of sad, really. But it came across to me as insulting. And that's why I reacted the way that I did. And if I can follow up on that just for a second. You know, what's interesting about this entire conversation

that Payne had with Brooke earlier this year that was in the podcast, never once did she mention that he had been interviewed by the GBI in June of last year and that he was accused of lying to them. Never once did she mention that. So is it that she knew about it and chose not to mention it, or maybe she was not informed or maybe she was lied to by her boyfriend. I don't know. But it's very interesting that she didn't mention that at all. There's too many stories.

Like I said, there's too many stories that there should be one story. That's it. If one thing happened that is true, that is the story. Why are they all different stories? And you know, someone's lying. Yep.

Thank you. Thank you. Hi, I feel like I have 35 questions, but I'll try and like know, someone's lying. Yep. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, I feel like I have 35 questions, but I'll try and like condense it to one. But so I guess I want to know your theories of what exactly happened after she left the barbecue, because I feel like there are bits and pieces sprinkled in and the GBI says, or is charging Ryan with robbery, but she had mud on the car and she had think told your grandma's best friend she was going to a party in Fitzgerald later that night after the pageant. So do you have any idea? Like, did she, do you think she went out there and partied with

them and something happened there? Or do you really think that they just broke into her house? I go back and forth on it. I don't think that they just broke into her house one time and that's what happened. I think there is a circumstance that we do not know yet. We could possibly think of it together right now and not know if it's the true one or not. But there's a circumstance that happened that we don't know about. And just for example, she could have left the barbecue and went to her house. And me and Maurice just found

this out recently. There's a house down the street. Actually, across the street from her mailbox. Right. And these guys at this house used to have parties and Bo and Ryan would attend them, right? And so like, let's just say in theory that there is some sort of crossing paths that happens that has no record of it. There's no texts or phone call or anything. That's what had to have happened. Either that happened or what they're saying actually happened and someone just all of a sudden left wherever they were and decided to go to Tara's house and murder her and go take her body and hide it and just get rid of everything.

If that happened or they cross paths. Yeah, what we all agree on, even if it's not what may have happened, we all agree that they didn't, this was not a robbery or a burglary actually that went bad. This kind of

burglary just doesn't happen in Osceola, Georgia. It's not like you just come home and some burglars in your house and they decide they're going to kill you because you, this just doesn't happen in Irwin County or Osceola, Georgia. Maybe it happens in Atlanta, Georgia, where we live or San Francisco, but it doesn't happen in Irwin County and Osceola, Georgia. So I think we're all three united in the sense that we don't believe that this narrative that we've been given

through the arrest warrants and the indictments, that this was just some kind of a burglary gone wrong. Yeah, we're not buying that. Not at all. I will say this. I think that there's more than Bo and Ryan that know what happened to Tara. I believe that for sure.

And I'm not talking about just the police. I'm talking about somebody else. I think that there's another person who's friends with them who also knows what happened. And so we just got to figure out what that scenario was. That'll solve everything. Yeah. So thank you. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Hi. I just have a really quick question. So you said that Beau has recently been accused of four things, but that document that was up there only had three. What was the fourth thing that he was accused of? You would ask me that now that I've left that back in the grueling,

but basically he was charged with four counts of basically concealing the death of another person and lying to the police officers, specifically Agent Shedell of the Georgia GBI. And he was alleged to have done so in alternative ways. And it's a four-count indictment, but on page one, which really doesn't legally count. It just shows the three. And it's not really operative, that first page. If he were to stand trial on that indictment, he would stand trial on all four charges, but the way that those charges are worded, it uses a lot of double negatives, and it's really difficult to understand, and it doesn't exactly, in my opinion, put him on notice of exactly what he's accused of doing. So

there's problems, in my opinion, with the second indictment, but I believe that the second indictment is based on a problem with the first indictment, which is based on a statute of limitations issue, because I know for a fact that the Irwin County Sheriff's Office went out in 2005 or early 2006, and they went out to that search. They did a search of that orchard, and they did it based on a tip, and it had most of this information in it. So I think that the second indictment is probably designed to cure statute of limitations problems with the first. Thank you.

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Good, how you doing? I'm a huge fan of the show. My coworkers actually got me hooked and I'm a huge fan of the show. My co-workers actually got me hooked and I've gotten 10 people hooked. So awesome. It's like the butterfly effect. So I have, can I ask two quick questions? Yeah, go for it. Okay. First question. Did you slip up and say that they found Tara's remains? So I've said it a couple times, and I actually slipped it on the podcast. I'm basically just going off of inside sources, telling me that they have found them. Officially, they haven't said if they have found them or not.

I'm telling you, I'm sure that they have found them. Yeah, that makes sense. So something that cooperates the story. Okay, that's something that just hit me. I was like, what? That's fine, yeah. and the next question is from my coworker, Jessica. She would like to know if you think the house on Snapdragon has anything to do with anything or was that just another white rabbit? White rabbit. Yeah. Yep. It's crazy story. I know. Trust me. I, I didn't just decide that one day I looked and was like, are you sure?

It's just not. It's just super weird. I think that the circumstances of the burning is weird. I think someone was, you know, it was a weird fire that shouldn't have happened, but not for that reason. Cool. Appreciate it. Love you all. Yeah, thank you.

Hey, how y'all doing tonight? Good. Hi, I flew in from Missouri to come to the show. Really? That's awesome. That's awesome. Thank you. Dedication. So I know y'all aren't allowed to know what the GBI knows.

However, I would like to know if you think that maybe Bo, the psycho, how that rhymes, if he has anything of Tara's that he has kept, like those chandelier errands that were MIA, nobody knew where they were. Do you think that they have found something? Do they have a search warrant to, you know, go through the house and see if he kept something because if you would do something like that you would keep it right you all know what i mean it's called it's called a trophy a trophy right have y'all heard anything like that i've never heard that before but i mean that makes sense i don't know if there if there's anything. I would probably doubt that there is anything. I think that just the story is so weird,

and the GBI finally realized that this may not make sense. We're going off of one guy's testimony who is also a criminal, also a liar, and we haven't heard what the other guy said yet. So there could be lots of things that we don't know. There probably is. But I don't think they're damning enough to where it's Ryan Duke did it or Bo Dukes did it.

If it was, then it wouldn't be happening the way it is right now, and there wouldn't be a gag order either. I will say that Bo really has a fantasy life sexual fantasy life so uh the keeping of a trophy is for a psychological reflection so he could reflect back on that vent with Tara so I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility I would say there was probably something that he has that he we just don't know what it was yeah yeah could be but thank you so much yes and you i've been listening to the podcast again in preparation for tonight i've been so excited um and my question is i've been listening to episode six which already played in episode

seven and listening to um the part where the neighbors said that they saw Tara's car was gone that night and also the man who committed suicide said that he was on a dirt road when he encountered more than one individual and then like there was a black woman with them and then they like carved initials in the DNA and stuff and so I'm wondering if y'all think that Tara might have left the house willingly, like with Bo and Duke. And, you know, I don't know if their cell phones had any record of them communicating beforehand. And, you know, if you think that they murdered her. That's actually, yeah, that's a good question.

Can I take this? Sorry. Let me talk to him for a second. You told me recently about someone you talked to. This is all brand new stuff. Sorry. The idea about the house across the street from Tara's, right? Correct. And that, that was a place that there were parties thrown. Correct. And that Bo and Ryan could have likely been there on that night. Visiting, yes. The people in that house knew Bo and Ryan. So my thing is that the most confusing part to me this whole time was

how, why, how does it happen where Ryan's all the way over and wherever he is, that's clearly further away than it should be, and in a drunk state, drives to Tara's house on a whim and kills her, and somehow, even though he's so messed up, just hides all of the evidence. It makes very little sense. Now, it's possible, yes. Anything's possible. But what's likely? What's likely is that you bump into that person. Something inspires that. If they're leaving a party and she's pulling in from the barbecue about the same time and no one sees anything because it's Ocilla and it's small streets and there's no streetlights, then maybe that's how it happened.

Bottom line is the story that they're telling, that Bo's telling, cannot be true. GBI is finally realizing that. But that's pretty much all I have on that. That's where my mind was going to. You're with me on that. Thank you. Thank you. Hey guys, I have no doubt that this case wouldn't be where it was if y'all hadn't shaken some trees and talking to some people. And I'm from South Georgia, and I know how stories get thrown around, and I know about these accents and whatnot. However, here's my question, and this has been bothering me since the beginning. I feel a little bit of a guilty feeling for watching this and listening to this.

How do Tara's parents feel about this whole thing? You know, I don't feel bad about what you've said and what you've done and what everybody's done, but I feel a little bit bad about looking at it as it's entertainment because it's really not. It's a bad thing. Yeah, I agree. And I've known some people from Osceola and from Fitzgerald, and it's a terrible thing to have to a small town. It's a sad story. It's taken the innocence from a small country town

where people have lived all their lives, they know everybody, and then something like that happens, it's just it it changes everybody's life yeah and i and i witnessed that firsthand when i when i met you know what seemed like 80 percent nine percent of the town i mean it's a sad story i mean how do terrorist parents feel about it i don't really know all i can go off of is would they not what they said in the press conference they don't really know. All I can go off of is what they said in the press conference. They don't want to talk to anybody in media at all. My direct line of communication with Tara's parents is through the police chief, Billy Hancock and Osceola. And very early on, I said, can you, do you know Tara's parents? He said, yes. I was like, can you please connect us? And he said,

yeah, I'll tell them what you're doing, and I'll tell you what they say. And he reached out to them and said, look, they said, we support anybody who wants to find out what happened to our daughter. We are so over talking to media and this and that, we just don't want to do it anymore. But we'll support anybody who wants to keep her story alive.

So tell him that we support him. And Dr. Godwin, they wouldn't talk to you either? Who's that? Her parents. Well, her mother. Yeah, I interviewed her mother. Her mother died in 08, but I interviewed her in 06. But her stepmother and her father never had really that much interaction

because Anita is the one who brought me into the case. I would say probably 2009-2010 that went backwards a lot but then in 2015 when we did the Greta Van Sesseren show in DC she was a nice very nice to me she did request to be present during my interview and they they asked my permission. I said, yes, you can be there. But here's the thing. In 2015, hardly anybody outside of Osceola knew about this case. Now you've got people in Arkansas and California arguing over the table at a restaurant about the details of it. A big difference, right? I totally agree with that. If y'all hadn't shaken some trees, nothing would have ever happened. I do agree with that. Yes.

Yeah. And it's not, it's not pretty. There's no pretty way to do it. We're uncovering something that's, that's ugly. And you know, we didn't make it ugly. Whoever's responsible did, but I, I really appreciate your question. That was a good one. Thank you so much. Thank you. Yes. Hey, my name is Hannah Rucker, and my mom actually taught with Tara,

and she actually taught Bo and remembers him. Wow. Yeah. She said he was a jerk back then, too. But she actually is unable to be here, so she sent me a question to ask. Perfect. She said, everyone involved in this is trying to tell their own narrative. Payne, Maurice, Phil, Bo, et cetera.

I assume Ryan has his own version as well. But who is going to tell Tara's narrative? Who is her voice? That's a good question. And all I can say is that the only voice that she has right now, in my opinion, because like I made a point in the very beginning, is that it was strange that no one close to Tara would talk about who Tara really was. It wasn't that Payne or you or you wouldn't talk about who Tara really was. We didn't know who Tara really was. It was that those who were actually closest to her

wouldn't talk about who she really was to me who told me about Tara is her best friend Maria her ex-boyfriend Marcus Harper and Marcus Harper's mom and they have told me countless stories and we've had just very intimate just moments talking to each other and it's been just completely surreal and they to me have painted the picture of who Tara was not all of it made it in the podcast because not all they didn't want all of it in the podcast it was people crying and uncomfortable things but it's a shame that not enough people did come forward and say, this is who Tara was. Let me tell you. I think that's also a reason why this took 10 plus years to solve. Well, let me say that over 11 years, I knew Tara pretty well. I viewed her almost as my daughter. I mean, I lived this case,

dreamed this case, not married this case. And when I was in her house, I was in her house for two weeks off and on. The first time I was in there, the first 30 minutes, the biggest storm came. I mean, the rain and the wind on top of that roof. So I just sat down on her couch, just sat there and I felt her presence going through all her dresser drawers all her personal stuff and everything I felt Tara and she is still with me today and but there's some resolution coming forward and I'm glad of that I agree thank you so much hi my question actually kind of connects with what Uncle Maurice was saying. Uncle Maurice? Not really Uncle. We're a big fan. We love him.

I like that. Where do you think the crime actually occurred? Do you think it occurred at Tara's home? You were there. I just feel like they're kind of dumb for the crime scene to be so clean. No offense, but. Payne and I actually disagree on this somewhat, but I think it occurred in her bedroom. You did? Yeah. I just feel like there was a big lack of evidence. I think the initial approach and gaining control of her took place in her bedroom. What about the dog being in the backyard and the seat being back in the car? Well, Dolly was the inside dog when she was home.

So being outside, no deal. But you don't think she would have let her in if she was in her bed at the time? Well, that's a good question. I know, right? I know, right? And that's... I know, right? Unless she was gained control over early and she didn't have

that time to do that. But it said that she was in her bed and she had her clothes Well, I don't believe she was sleeping because she had the earrings on.

Who's going to go to bed with chandelier long earrings on? I just... There's probably plenty of people in here who also didn't drink. With my chandelier long earrings on. I just... There's probably plenty of people in here that Tara also didn't drink. With my chandelier earrings on. But I do wonder if she was at maybe the orchard.

Maybe she was lying and said that she was going to see a video. She wanted to be a little... I mean, I'm not saying anything bad against Tara, but if I was trying to be shady, I might have laughed. All those things are possible. And I've said that before. And it's are possible. And I've said that before. And it's all possible.

Some of those things make more sense than what they're saying. It just drives me crazy, honestly. You're welcome. I honestly think that I always thought that

it was just too weird for them to go meet somewhere weird or somewhere else out of the norm. I thought it had to be a happen chance thing where they just someone saw her coming home and no one else saw them see each other. No one knows they saw each other. And that's why it's an unsolved murder because they're nowhere this person left this first this person left here they left here no one knows what they were there right now it's unsolved murder that's how it happened thank you yeah thank you was the suicidal man in the list of 12 or in the photo in the back of the truck? Do we have his identity?

And do we know when the suicide occurred? And what was the age of this child that saw Tara's body burning? Okay, so you asked if the suicide story is real, is that what you said? Not if it's real. The identity of the man. Do we know who it is? Yes, we know who it is. Okay.

And how old was the child? Who confessed? So he said kid. Yeah. Which is weird. Yeah. It wasn't really a kid. It was like a kid on drugs who would say something like,

I saw that girl burned up down there. Who says that? That's like either a guy on drugs or a kid who's, you know what I'm saying? So I think that I clarified that. I was like, what do you mean kid? So basically the same age as the guy who committed suicide, same age as Ryan and Bo. Okay. Thank you. Will you rise with the sun to help change mental health care forever? Join the Sunrise Challenge to raise funds for CAMH, the Center for Addiction and Mental Health, Thank you. own. Help CAMH build a future where no one is left behind. So, who will you rise for? Register today at sunrisechallenge.ca. That's sunrisechallenge.ca.

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Yeah, man. Thank you. I guess this is a question for Payne, but all of you could answer, but we know that Tara went to the beauty pageant on that Saturday. We know that she went to the barbecue. What is your personal theory,

sir, about what happened after she left that barbecue between that and her untimely death? It's not sound super vague. I think that she went back home and at some point she crossed paths with some people. And I think it was not just one person. I don't think it was just Ryan. I think Ryan was there or was there at some point, but they crossed paths, and her night changed, and no one could have predicted where she went or what happened because it was out of the ordinary for her and there was just this weird moment in time where she happened to be here

getting out of the car and someone happened to see her there and there's no cell phone record of it there's no text message saying hey let's meet up here this just never happened but there was this moment where no one saw anything but but they crossed paths, and I think the night just went sour. Something bad happened. Whether that was intentional or not, I don't know, but somebody killed her that night and saw enough. What did not happen, to answer your question sort of in reverse, what did not happen, in my opinion, is the narrative that we've been given, but well, because it's a gag order, they can't really say, you know, what they think happened, but you've got these arrest warrants, you've got these numerous indictments

now, and the narrative takes shape that this was a burglary gone bad, and I think that all of us up here on stage agree that that's not what happened. I can tell you that those kinds of burglaries in Osceola, Georgia, just don't happen. So this was not some garden-variety burglary gone bad where the homeowner comes home, finds someone burglarizing their house, and then there's a struggle and somebody dies. I don't believe for one minute that that's what happened. Thank you very much. Thanks, man. I appreciate it.

Thank you, sir. Part of yours, sir. Oh, my goodness. I know this guy. I've worked with this guy a lot. Actually, he makes really good films. You know this guy? Jay Schuster.

Look him up. Thank you. Thanks. I've actually got a production question for you, Payne. How did you keep track of all this information that you're getting? You're not a detective. How did you, well, you aren't now, but how did you process all this information without losing your mind?

That's a really good question. I'd lost my mind. He picked that crazy for me. I mean, really really that was the thing you get it that was it it was this balance of how do I stay sane or

have friends when I'm done with this that was it and you just had to be on it all the time you had to just really just be talking about it all the time. You couldn't ever let it go for too long because you had to take this piece of information.

You have to remember stuff. And I'm super bad with people's names. I mean, I really am. But I became really good at people's names because I had to. I could no longer not remember somebody's name. And I didn't remember exactly what the name was and who that person was.

So it just, it consumed my life. It just had to, there's no other way to do it. You don't, you don't do this on the side. You just, you either do this all the way or you don't. And that was pretty much what I did. And it was, it consumed me, but it was, you know, I enjoyed a lot of it. it was, it consumed me, but it was, you know, I enjoyed a lot of it. It was very stressful at times, and it was, you know, just, I didn't, I never knew what to expect, and going into the unknown, and, you know, towards the end, people were getting mad at me for all kind of stuff,

and it's just, it's hard to deal with this sensitive issue, and then also be the guy spearheading this, you know, the truth in this story and, you know, maintaining these relationships. But you just got to live and learn, man. That's literally all I did. And I'll just do it again and try to do better next time. But the consuming part, it did me too. But it manifests itself differently with him and different people.

For me, it was depression see and so and it definitely played a role in that I did take a bunch of notes though I have like thousands of just text edits on my MacBook that are just

thoughts or whatever so like I'm always writing stuff down and I try to keep it organized, but it was, it's confusing, but I did make a serious attempt to try to make sense of the nonsense. So yeah. Thank you. Thanks, Jim. Thanks, man. You're in a very liberal neighborhood. I've lived here for 15 years and, um, you know, you'd be hard pressed to go to a church nearby and not find like a Black Lives Matter sign out front or, you know, welcome Muslim brothers and sisters, things like that. So I want to represent my neighborhood and I want to ask you guys about in your process. How can I phrase it? I've been trying to figure out how to phrase this good.

I've been trying to figure out how to phrase this good. With the missing white woman syndrome, how do you see your, obviously every missing person's case is equally as important, no matter what. Right. But how do you see your role as people who are now in a position of momentum? And is it, you know, how it you know how do you see do you see yourself as having a certain responsibility towards addressing this issue uh what's your relationship to that and how does it um you know affect the choices that you will make in the future with this uh path you've taken it affects everything um i didn't plan on becoming this

person but it doesn't matter i am now so i have a responsibility to a certain degree and you know we put a lot of thought into season two and how we want to treat it and um not just with the actual case that we're looking into but other cases too and highlighting um you know in the beginning first like minute of the episode each week highlighting a case that has never got a spotlight before. Because we have that spotlight, there's things that we can do to contribute. Because we do cover unsolved disappearances, what else can we do to help other people out? Obviously, we can't solve every mystery in the world. That'd be awesome, but it's just not possible. But what can we do with this outlet that we have to, you know, make the world a better place and,

you know, utilize this as a tool for the greater good? So we have a lot of focus on how to make that better and just be able to expand what we're doing and help more people. And, you know, that's kind of where we're focused at. You know, we're always going to try to tell a good story, but we also want to affect the real world. And like you said, there's a lot of cases out there. They're not all missing white women. There's a lot of different people who are missing, and they all deserve the same sort of, you know, reporting and spotlight that Tara Grinstead got. And we'd love to contribute to that if we can in any sort of way. Of course. Maurice or Phillip, do you guys have anything to add to that?

Sure. I think that the circumstances with Tara Grinstead, it was sort of the perfect storm of things that created this giant mystery around her particular disappearance. And it had nothing to do with her gender or her race or anything like that. It was just, I think all the circumstances surrounding it is what made it so it, is what made it so captivating to everybody. And for someone like her to literally, and I don't mean to be a pun, but just to up and vanish, was just something that was mind-blowing, because she was such a popular person in the local community, and in a community where everybody knows everybody, it made it so much more compelling. So I didn't choose the case. Obviously, that was somebody else's decision. But that is what makes that this particular case, the terror

case, so damn amazing and compelling that it was worthy of the podcast. I completely agree. I loved it. And I just want to say, my question wasn't so much about how this case got chosen, but how you see your role in the future of cases that you choose. All these people. By the way, so glad that you're covering Atlanta murders. So excited about that. Like really good choice. Actually, I, unlike others on the stage who will not be named, I remember when all this happened. I was a juvenile, but I remember it. But yes, I'm glad that that's getting some attention too. Thank you so much. Hey gentlemen, I'm Jenny. Thank you so much for putting your heart and soul into this podcast. We could really feel it. Appreciate it. I want to know, I'm so

curious. So obviously we know, I'm so curious. So obviously we know Bo was very active on the discussion boards and especially on Twitter, that lengthy conversation he had with that woman. So does the gag order not apply to Bo or did he just blatantly disregard it? He just doesn't care. Well, it does apply to him now. Interestingly, his attorney acquiesced in the DA's and everybody's, well, let me back up. I'm not going to explicitly say it was the DA's or what. He just wants to talk so bad about it that he just can't keep his mouth shut, pretty much. Yeah, even though it's the state of Georgia versus, you know, Ryan Alexander Duke, it doesn't say as co-defendant with Bo Dukes. But nevertheless, his lawyer acquiesced in having the gag order apply to him.

And so, yeah, it does apply to him. And interestingly enough, though, the gag order technically does not apply to the indictments against Bo in either Ben Hill County, Georgia, which is Fitzgerald, or Wilcox County, which is the most recent indictment that came out in August of this year. So Judge Melanie Cross, who I went to high school with in the interest of full disclosure, was in the band with. She was, I think, a flag girl or something. But no, so, you know, she entered this gag order and it's only in the state of Georgia versus Ryan Duke. And she has no authority because she's not a judge in Wilcox County or Ben Hill County, Georgia, to enter a gag order in either of those two cases, and there's not a gag order in either of those two cases. He just liked the attention. That's pretty much it. Thank you for your question. Thank you. We appreciate it. Awesome. Thanks. My name is

Colin. First off, thanks to all you guys for your work. It wouldn't be what it is without your voice, y'all's work, and your expertise. So thank you, first off, second thing, I got midterms tomorrow, but definitely better option being here. This is way more important. Exactly. Um, that's awesome. And so this is kind of for everybody, but mostly for Maurice and Payne. Um, how do you really filter out what you consider nonsense versus what you take seriously? Like for example, the concrete slab versus say, uh, the house on Snapdragon. Um, there's no, for example, the concrete slab versus, say, the house on Snapdragon. There's no, I mean, for me, there's no just science to it where it breaks down the same every single time. It doesn't have these particular factors and all of a sudden goes in this pile. There's some of those things, but at the end of the day, when you make the executive decision to put this in the podcast or not, or to talk about it, it's more of a moral thing and just being in it, man. If you're just, if you're in it and you're really doing

this, I'm not sitting back just, you know, pressing buttons and just trying to make some crazy story. I'm trying to manipulate the real world and squeezing the truth out. So like, what is going to be the thing that gets the truth? What is the combination of all this mess that's going to be the most likely to succeed. So it's like anything else in life. It's, you know, you just weigh all the pros and cons and at the end of the day, you got to make your own decision and then you got to stand behind it. And so that's what I had to deal with. But hey, I'm ready to do it again. It's all about, you know, just keep your head on straight and just really, if you're in it and you're feeling it, you know, chances are you'll make the right decision.

Just weigh all the options and just, there was times when I called you and said, should I do this? And you were like, no. I was like, but listen, let me tell you. I can tell you a lot of the information that I gave him, and I'm sure he probably did this with his own information, is that he vetted it. He needed at least two sources that basically were saying the same thing before he used it. Got it. Yep. All right. Awesome. Thanks, guys. Thanks, man. Thanks for being here before midterms. That's crazy. Hi there. I'm curious who you guys thought did it before Bo and Ryan were arrested? Because I thought it was Heath, but I think a lot of people thought it was Marcus.

Or did you think it was totally someone different? Well, we had moved way on from Harper, and he had moved on from Dykes. Dykes was still on my radar, but we were actually working on a number of former students that nobody knows about. Not Vickers, but other former students. We were trying to get a wreck report. A guy was killed in November of 2006. He was good friends with Tara. he was good friends with Tara so we were trying to look at students and we just didn't get

enough of those couple of sources to back some of the stuff up to put it out on the podcast I mean no one had been all the way ruled out I was still looking at everybody it was driving me crazy though and there was something about it

it just didn't make sense it was trying to force it to make it work and it made sense that there was somebody not on our radar that may have done something because we had tried every combination of things and you know you just can't force it. But, um, you know, there were some other small bits of information that are meaningless now, but, you know, made me think that this person may have done it, this person may have done it. But, um, you know, I never really did feel strongly about one particular person. I just thought there was oddities about a lot of people and unexplained circumstances and questions that were left unanswered. But I was never opposed to the idea that someone I've never heard of was responsible for this.

And you hadn't heard Bo and Ryan's names, right? No, I never heard their names. Although Ryan's, I've never heard of neither. Although Ryan's girlfriend emailed me in 2007. His girlfriend that was in 2005, she emailed me in 2007. It's small worlds. I mean, all these people, these students. She didn't mention their name.

In fact, she didn't really tell me anything because she said she was scared for herself and her newborn child. And I responded once, and then it faded. I still have the emails and four or five months ago brought that up to her and she said i said what do you want to tell me she claims nothing so that's weird thank you for your question you waited so patiently we'll get you on this side too thanks so much my question dates way back to i don't know one of the first couple of episodes okay somebody claimed that uh tara or some female had made a phone call at night screaming for help and i think that was never there was never a solution to that talking about anthony vickers uh former student who said he got a weird call days later, sounded like Tara on the phone,

some girl in hell. Yeah. So he said that he gave that to the GBI, and they looked into it, and it went to some sort of landline to this drug house or something, some really weird convoluted story, but apparently it never checked out.

But he swore up and down that it sounded so much like Tara. But then again, Tara was missing, and it was a woman who was screaming for help. It's odd, no matter what. But I don't think that it was Tara that day. But the only ever explanation he got was that there was some sort of drug house that was a stash house,

and there was some girl there. It just sort of didn't even make sense. But this is what the GBI told him as an explanation for that call. Thanks for listening, guys. To reiterate, the cities we're visiting sense. But this is what the GBI told him as an explanation for that call. meet you guys. See you soon.