Up and Vanished - S2E12: Muddy Waters

Episode Date: November 26, 2018

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I try to call her. I try to call her. And I'm thinking, well, maybe because I had two phone numbers on my phone, I called both of the phone numbers. And I reached out on Facebook. And even before I reached out on Facebook, I started messaging her ex-boyfriend. I knew something bad happened. This is Crystal's aunt, Jennifer. Because we talked, like, not long before she went missing. I mean, she told me some stuff. You know, it's like, the last time I talked to her, we kind of cut the conversation short because some of her friends were coming over.

Or actually, they were knocking on the door. She just said she loves me and we'll talk later. I mean, we were planning for her to come out here with Akasha for a visit. And then I see all this stuff all over the papers. You know, I contacted the police. It's just, when I spoke to the police originally, it's just, I don't think that they realized what they were dealing with. You know, they were so interested in getting her belongings out of her apartment. And I asked them, where's her phone? Where's

her computer? They're like, it's there at the apartment. And I'm like, why don't you have it? I just feel like I just thought she wandered off or something. And I know she didn't. I know it in my heart. And my niece is the type of person, like, if somebody knocked on her door and said, hey, you know, want to come over for dinner or something, she would have just, you know, left with them. Like, she wouldn't have thought anything of it. And that's where I'm like, somebody, somebody out there, they know.

You know, she was a trusting person. And, you know, you hear all these things. And before then, you know, she said something happened to her. You know, and I told her she needs to call the police. And she felt like, you know, like she wouldn't have any evidence. Because she let too much time pass. She believed it was more than one person. But she didn't know.

You know, everybody talks about Catfish and everything. Not just him. I mean, there was another guy involved. Like, somebody wrecked her car. And I think she took a lawsuit out on him. I don't think he was very happy about the situation. And there's somebody else named Matthew. I don't know who

Matthew is, but like I said, even the last time I talked to her, she was, you know, some people were coming over. And I mean, everybody was her friend. her so-called friends. You know, you watch these movies and you see people that were kidnapped and held hostage for like years. And when that becomes your only hope, it's no hope at all.

that becomes your only hope. It's no hope at all. I just... I mean, I know she's not here anymore. I know that. And I don't know if, you know, we'll ever find out

what really happened. I just know if whoever did something to her will be tormented on the inside. Even if, you know, they never come to justice. Thank you. From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta, this is Up and Vanished. I'm your host, Payne Lindsey. Crystal was like an acquaintance to me. I knew her through friends and stuff.

And definitely, definitely a cool chick. I was with her, I don't know if it was a few days or a few weeks before she ended up going missing. So it kind of worded me out with that whole situation. Then she asked me for a ride to one of her friend's house. I took her there and I had to use the restroom. So I went in and met this guy. And, like, immediately when I walked in, the place was, like, super, super messy, like, hoarding-type looking stuff. And I was like, oh, okay.

And then this guy introduced himself, and he introduced himself as a catfish. Part of the reason he's taking me so long to get back to you was because I couldn't remember this guy's name. And once you came out with the podcast and stuff, my friend told me, I looked at it, and I saw one of your episodes was named Catfish. And I was like, holy crap, that's that guy. Anyways, I'm inside this guy's house and asking if I could use the restroom. He's like, yeah. And so I go to the restroom and look down on the ground, and there's this, like, a bag of, like, drugs, like, just sitting on the ground on the restroom floor. And I was like, what the heck, man?

Where the hell am I? And so I pick up that bag of, I'm assuming it's just drugs, looks like drugs, and I walk back out there, and I'm like, hey, dude, this is just bag of, I'm assuming it says drugs, looks like drugs, and I walk back out there, and I'm like, hey, dude, this was just kind of like sitting on your bathroom floor there, and he was like, oh, my God, thank you, thank you so much. He was all stoked that, like, I didn't steal it, and I was like, uh, yeah, so I'm gonna go, and she's like, yeah, yeah, I'm fine. I think Nate's gonna come pick me up or something like that and I'm like all right I'm out of here because that whole place was weird the whole situation was

weird kind of sketched me out and so I left and then a couple days later I think it was I don't remember exactly how long later it was I saw Crystal like at the brewery or in town somewhere and um I was like hey what's going on Crystal and she was like dude oh my god that night that you brought me there this guy like drugged me and like hid my phone from me and like wouldn't let me leave and it was this whole crazy ordeal blah blah blah and like I think she said Nate had to come pick her up or something like that. And I was like, holy crap, dude. Like, do not go over there again. That is sketchy. That's why I left.

You know, I would definitely not go back over there. That whole situation from what I experienced with her was messed up. And from what you told me, you know, with someone hiding your phone or drugging you and or whatever, any of that stuff was just weird. or drugging you and or whatever, any of that stuff was just weird. And my impression of the guy, like, I thought he was like a tweaker or like a schizophrenic or like something like that. Just like really someone you don't want to hang around with, you know? The town in and of itself is beautiful. It's just there's a lot of trust fund kids and a lot of trust fund kids and trust fund kids.

And so there's an abundance of meth and abundance of people that have no jobs and nothing to do. The level of sadistic behavior that I've seen from certain people there. I don't know, dude. I'd call the sheriff's department and be like, listen, I'm going to end up like that girl. And I'm going to go missing. And no one's going to know what happened. And everyone's going to just pretend like it's not a big deal. So when I lived there, I was dating someone who was ultimately not a safe person.

When I first moved back to Crestone with my ex, he would always mention Catfish and how much I should get together with him. I have had an interesting relationship with him. He's always constantly trying to marry me. He'll call me like every three months, ask me to marry him. I think he uses it to tell his parents that he's engaged to me, so they'll think there's some sort of stability in his life. I came over to type on him one day, because I know he's got a bit out there. I was off work early, went over there, and he asked to transfer, like, three grand into my PayPal account, right?

And then have it put into my bank account, because he was always trying to get money from his parents, and he still is. And he's like, I'll give you 300 bucks for it. I'm like, sure. But then he started freaking out on me because it wasn't clearing fast enough. Because it was a Friday, and it wouldn't go through until, like, Monday. And so I went over there on Saturday.

He had me call PayPal in front of him. He had me call the bank in front of him who confirmed that it hadn't cleared in my account yet. And I was like, dude, I can't withdraw because I don't have it there. So he has this like upstairs area where it's like a little locked. So I was trapped there. And he had a gun for like over an hour at least. Ripped these prayer beads that he had given me off of me.

Don't come ripping off my jewelry. I hate that. Thank God. His dad usually shows up in jewelry. I hate that. Thank God. His dad usually shows up in the morning and will drop off food, you know, cigarettes, alcohol, whatever he needs, sometimes a couple hundred bucks.

So his dad ends up showing up and I'm like, thank God. Who knows? I could have been there for hours. I mean, it's just weird. Yeah, he pulled the gun out. I mean, I didn't think he was going to shoot me. He was just trying to

like scare me maybe I should have been more scared of him but I'm not scared of him Brandon would always warn me not to like you know he offered me a beer

or a cocktail or something like don't ever take your gun unless it's on a bend he had told me that he had drugged people multiple times you need to call me back you think that He had told me that he had drugged people multiple times.

You need to call me back. You think that I threatened you before? I wanted to marry you and love you forever. The things you've done are called wire fraud. Do you know what it's called when you con someone to steal from them? Do you know what that's called? I'll let you ask your attorney. Yeah, I'm able to threaten someone if I want to right now, but I'm not. Maybe I'm close though. Maybe you should call me.

Want to get dosed? I had heard the term dosing before. I talked to a Crestone local who's had his own experiences involving dosing. A dose is like a hit, you know what I'm saying? But getting dosed is like when someone gives you way too much acid. Capdish is crazy. Like I said, I've hung out with him a couple of occasions and the dude is just out there, bro. Dude, first of all, this guy gets crystal LSD, not paper hits. Like, you know what vials are, right?

You ever seen a vial of acid before? Uh, no. What's that? Real L, LSD, we call it L. You know, you get your vials are, right? You ever seen a vial of acid before? Uh, no. What's that? Real L. LSD, we call it L. You know, you get your crystal, and then you mix it with water, and you shake the shit out of it. But, you know, that's how you get to, like, that liquid point, and then that goes on paper. Or you can just drip it from the dropper into your mouth, you know, from, like, a little vial.

Or, you know, I mean, if you're crazy, you could eat the crystal, which would probably fry your fucking brain forever. He dosed my best friend so hard. He super dosed him like you left three in a bottle. My buddy took him and ate all three. It can, you know, make you go bonkers and shit. You know, it depends on the strength of the mind of the person. One of his friends, who we've called Jack on the podcast, was allegedly dosed a few years ago. The reason? Retribution, bro. Like, dude, someone was stealing called Jack on the podcast, was allegedly dosed a few years ago. The reason?

Retribution, bro. Like, dude, someone was stealing his guanapins, bro. They're like Xanax, you know, they're a benzo. I mean, literally left them out on purpose so whoever was taking them would take them. And took them and there was three in there and he ate all three and he's fried now, bro. You know what I'm saying? Like, running through the snow with like no shoes on, his fingers have, he got frostbite. His fingers are fucked for life now, bro. You know what I'm saying? Like, running through the snow with, like, no shoes on. His fingers have, he got frostbite. His fingers are fucked for life now, dude.

You know, I mean, yeah, he was stealing, but dude, come on now. This isn't fucking 1800s where we cut people's hands off and shit. You know what I'm saying? He's a little punk, bro. That's why I called him straight out, bro. That's bullshit. No one has fucking, no cojones, no fucking balls out there. In the past several months, there's been numerous stories flying around Crestone involving Catfish cleaning his house sometime shortly after Crystal went missing.

There's nothing wrong with cleaning your house, but according to those close to Catfish, he never cleaned his house. So the question they're asking is, why then? she'd met with there the night before or something like that, that she disappeared. He sent her a video of, like, all the meth that he had bought because she was a user of that and kind of lured her over there. What I heard from him was that when Wayne came, he had had the entire place cleaned out, everything. Like, and the dude's a hoarder.

I mean, he's got piles of computers that he's broken and shit like that. So much stuff. Because he has money but nothing to do. He scrubs the whole place clean. But why? Did he tell you that? Yeah.

He laughed about it. Why would you have it scrubbed clean if you had nothing to do with it? experience basketball like never before with bet mg, an authorized gaming partner of the NBA. Ready to shoot your shot? We've made the BetMGM experience more immersive and fun for all types of basketball fans. Being on the sidelines is one thing. This season, experience basketball on the foul line, exciting state-of-the-art live tracking technology, and dozens of sportsbook selections await you at BetMGM Sportsbook. Tap into every game on your mobile devices. Get up off the sideline and drive to the basket yourself no matter which team starts popping off you'll find out why there's truly nothing like laying up a w with the king of sportsbooks

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You have to understand that Catfish has the ability to hack people's accounts. In fact, he probably knows that you and I are talking right now, or knows that you and I have been talking. That's another thing that makes me think that I'm in danger. He's been on my Facebook. He's hacked my Facebook knowingly. I knew he was hacking my Facebook. I knew he was on my Facebook at one point. He just knows how to hack. He knows how to get into the system. God, he's hacked Amazon. He was getting free gift certificates to Amazon

by hacking them. I've always been told that Catfish was good with computers. So you're pretty good with computers, right? No, not really at all. I'm a photographer and I've lost been told that Catfish was good with computers. So you're pretty good with computers, right? No, not really at all. I'm a photographer and I've lost all my computers and everything I've owned. But as time went on, more and more stories began to surface. Here's the Crestone boyfriend. He's pretty good with computers. He's acting to Brian on the count and tried to get a hold of me previously.

I think Brian left his messenger on or something. He got a hold of it. He was using it to get a hold of me previously. I think Brian left his messenger on or something. He got a hold of it. He was using it to, like, get a hold of people and shit. And he was, like, pulling up records of people one day when I was over there showing up Brian Otten's fucking records and, like, trying to say that he was, like, a criminal informant. It was weird. Did Catfish essentially act as Brian and send messages from Brian? He was for a while.

He was for a while. Brian was telling me. This was before Chris went missing. So you got a message from Brian and then you asked Brian about it. And what did Brian say? He came up to me specifically asking if me and Chris were asking if they had gotten weird messages from him. But it wasn't him. That it was Catfish. Did Brian say that he killed her? Because if he did, then it's as simple as that. You know what's ready, Brian?

Yeah. It's a direct confession, and I have server side and my computer side. Let's put it out there, man. Let's prove your innocence right now. The problem is I lost all my computers when I lost my home over this kind of crap. So I'm having to get back into an online storage thing. His online storage thing. I guess he's looking for the screenshots?

Or maybe some downloaded version of the conversation? Catfish says that Dreddy Brian sent him a message on Facebook in which he confessed to killing Crystal. Then Catfish says he blocked him and eventually turned over that message to the CBI, but now he can't find it. Maybe it's true, but it's just not that complicated. If you don't want to give it to me, that's fine. Just say that. But to keep putting it off with new excuses just sounds weird. So I tried something. I made a fake Facebook account, and I started a conversation between my fake Facebook and my real Facebook. Then I blocked the account, just like Catfish blocked Brian. And as an extra measure, I logged back into the

fake Facebook and deleted the message I sent, something Brian may have done after sending it. Even with the message deleted and his account blocked, I could still see it. I could search it. Unless Catfish permanently deleted the conversation entirely, which would be kind of odd to do, it should still be there right now. Right there in his Facebook Messenger.

It's not that complicated. How soon after we talked did he call you? Less than like two minutes. It was like immediately. He texted me immediately and was like, you owe me this much money and then called me and on the phone with me saying that I was going to have to pay him sex or something

and then he was going to call me back and then he hung up the phone. For the past couple years, this person has been living in fear of Catfish. And not long after I started talking to her, she began to fear that her phone and her Facebook had been hacked. She told me that a few years ago, she was held against her will at gunpoint in Catfish's house. Over the last several years, she's had some strange experiences involving her phone, her Facebook, and Catfish.

According to her, she's had text messages sent from her cell phone that she didn't write, containing strange cryptic-sounding nonsense. I'm no expert on this, but I've seen this kind of typing before. She also received dozens of voicemails from unknown numbers, and the voice on the other line. And countless text messages from random phone numbers were sent to her personally, all of them riddled with familiar context, talking about the FBI, extortion, money, and wire fraud. A vast majority of these messages were extremely explicit and vulgar. I'm uncomfortable even sharing it.

As you can probably imagine, the last two years have been extremely hard on Crystal's family. Along with getting answers about her disappearance, their main concern has been Kasia and what this ultimately means for her future. Kasia is living with her loving father Eli and his family in Los Angeles. She has a wonderful and supportive network of people to guide her, but still, she's been dealt a difficult hand at a very young age. As her family has expressed to me before, nothing can truly replace her mother. She misses her, and is starting to feel the impact of her absence. One of the many consequences of Crystal's disappearance is that Kasia is now financially

supported by only one parent. The team at Tenderfoot TV has set up a GoFundMe for Kasha, and we've kicked it off with a donation of our own. We've gotten to know a lot about Kasha and her family, and our hope is that something positive can come from this tragedy. If you'd like to join us in offering some support for Kasha's future, you can do so by going to 4kasha.com and donate. That's 4kasha.com, F-O-R-K-A-S-H-A dot com. Any donation at all is welcome and appreciated, and all the proceeds will go directly into a trust for Kasha. She'll call via like Facebook video or whatever from her dad's phone, and typically it started off saying can you show me a picture of my mom she just wants to

talk and she wants to have that connection that connection because like we're extremely connected like we're all extremely close most of the time and when she's older she'll probably be mad at me for saying this but we just put the phone down and listen to her talk and like chime in every once in a while because she just sometimes she'll put the phone down and go yeah like she'll just go do something else yeah and you just kind of leave it there and hope your phone bill doesn't go up but it's worth it one time i watched her play basketball for like half an hour and she told me she taught you how to play best oh she taught yeah she's hey she yeah yeah she yeah so I'm really good now yeah well that's how you get better

Well, that's how you get better. Mm-hmm. Almost! Almost! Oh, that was so close. You're almost there. She was five years old on March 17th. Just started kindergarten in August. She had never gone to preschool, so most of the kids that have gone since they were three or four are already reading or knowing their letters and all that. So when she started she was a little bit behind, they

said. Now she's writing words and is apparently very good at math, according to Eli. So it's writing words and is apparently very good at math according to Eli. So it's been a real good experience. She generally just she enjoys everything. She's very curious so she just wants to know about everything. She wants you to play with her and she will tell you what you're gonna play and how you're gonna play it but she's just she's fun. She's really fun. Never, but she's just, she's fun. She's really fun. Never annoying, I don't know what it is. Some kids, you know, it can get to be too much,

but with her it's never enough. Okay, take that back. Sometimes it's enough, but not usually. When it's almost midnight, tell me another story and you've gone through 15 stories already and you have to make them up. And you can tell she's not tired so there's no stopping just one more grandma just one more i'll rub your back she said that once she's a sweetheart you gotta make up you know the forest with the spooky forest oh Oh, she loves spooky.

The spooky forest. And right now her favorite, I have this one, her favorite movie is The Ghostbusters. But not the original, right? I know. And there's something weird, and it don't look good. So we're gonna call Ghostbusters.

She loves spooky. She loves like haunting ghosts and spooky. And she, oh, she last time we FaceTimed, she wanted to tell me about ghosts and things like that. So she definitely, she's tapped into like the spooky spirituality as well as like the mainstream spooky like ghost kind of thing.

I'm so curious to know what she's going to be like when she's older. I think she'll be rebellious like Crystal but she's got Crystal to guide her so Crystal will you know tell her what's up when she's acting up so and honestly I think if anything she might become some kind of musician or at least she'll practice music in her life she has Crystal's voice she I think she'll grow into her voice as Crystal's voice because Crystal was amazing and Eli and his roots with the Native American is definitely she's she's going to develop her own very interesting little mix and I could totally see her being like the little 13 year old with a garage band and you know doing the half tribal, half yeah, yeah, yeahs kind of thing.

And I think it's going to totally work because she makes it work because she's 100% confident in herself like all the time, basically. And if she's not, she doesn't show it. I've actually memorized some of those strange lyrics because they're just too cute and it's just, it's adorable.

And some are about me me so i'm flattered what is something you hope from a GoFundMe for Kasia? What would be a hope of yours? Mine would be that she has a more stable, I guess normal in quotes, but a more stable living environment where she feels safe and she knows it's home, not moving from place to place. Have her own space, have her own bedroom.

I think it's really important to have a little space that's yours that she can keep her things and decorate because she's got so many fun things and drawings and all kinds of stuff. And I think it's really important for her, especially as a little artistic, creative child, to have somewhere to put those things. Obviously, you know, we want her to be able to work and, you know, achieve all the things that, you know, a lot of people do. But she's been dealt a lot of you know crappy things at a young age just make sure that she like my mom said she feels safe because well to have that stability because that's one thing crystal never had yeah was a home of their own you know her her mom

whoever she was living with it was always one place to another, one group home, one aunt, one whatever. But to give her that continuity and stability I think would help her a lot. I just, I really want Akasha to have all those things and opportunity that both Crystal and I lacked. And I know Crystal lacked a lot of things. Not necessarily things, but like the security in life.

Yeah, definitely like education, for sure. Like I want to make sure she has a stable home. I think anybody that's in poverty has that issue. It's just has a stable home. I think anybody that's in poverty has that issue, is just having a stable home. Just want her to have, like, a feeling that she's not in the wind ever, ever, ever in her life. Like Crystal. Well, the landlord was pretty clear in that she said Crystal indicated that she'd been drugged and raped and that she was considering going to authorities to tell them about these people.

So that is a legitimate potential motive to kill her. these people. So that is a legitimate potential motive to kill her. At the same time, when you ask about why prosecutors and police don't actively pursue sexual assaults, statistically, they don't. The Denver Police Department, of the felony sexual assault rapes, of all the cases that they take to the district attorney's office, eight in ten are thrown in the trash. Never prosecuted. They don't file charges. They don't even try. They're really tough cases to make in front of a jury. DAs have learned that it's a waste of time and money to prosecute most sexual assaults. And I think it's horrific.

And the Me Too movement is going to move the needle on that. But statistically, the reality is district attorneys don't try to charge people with rape. It's something that they lose at all the time. They try, push it, they use a lot of resources, they think they have the right case, they get in front of a jury, the person gets acquitted. Then they've put this victim through a horrific cross-examination, usually calling her everything in the book, from a slut to ask her in what she's wearing or why she had a drink with some guy. And that defense tactic, though appalling, has worked, historically worked. So it doesn't surprise me that no one investigates claims of sexual assault, especially if they're date rapes or familial.

It's sad, but it's just the truth. Chris Halsney's heard my calls with catfish from episode 9. There were times where it just seemed like he didn't seem to have the right train of thought. And there were other times he was right on the money. He knew what was going on. Then he'd go down some path that didn't even do with anything. People who are potential suspects

or people of interest to the police, the more they talk, the more someone might hear something that makes sense. Maybe they're talking because they want to make sure that everybody knows they're innocent. Maybe they're talking so that they can throw blame on somebody else when it's really them. You don't know till the end. Oh, foolish, foolish was I There my foolish eyes Is that man's lessons had a price

Oh, sweet price My sweet soul everlasting, my very own eternal life Don't you know Liddell wears a suit and tie Saw him driving down the 61 in early July Wide as a cotton, feeling sharp as a knife I heard him howling as he passed me by I've been advised by six attorneys today not to tell you this. I didn't even plan on calling you today. Let me catch my breath here. Jerry Garcia Band.

They had a friend named Catfish John. They wrote a song about it. When he passed, they passed the name on to me. Basically because they could see that I could do along with everybody. Like a catfish can swim in clear waters, brackish waters, muddy waters, sea waters, that kind of thing. You've offended me so bad. Not you, sir. It really isn't your fault.

All I was saying was since you have all this clout, everybody's about, well, Payne Lindsay said this, Payne Lindsay said that, well, pay Lindsay to this, pay Lindsay to that, pay Lindsay to this, pay Lindsay to that. I had every available resource to leave. Okay? Private jets, let me leave, all kinds of stuff. I don't run. You know why? Because if I ever do, that's called the head start. do. That's called the head start. Off and on for the past few months, I've talked extensively with Catfish. Oddly enough, a majority of our conversations were about computers and hacking, all topics he brought up on his own. So I just listened. I've said some things on Facebook in the past few days that I'll be very glad that I'm friends with the board of Facebook,

things like that. They don't really particularly like anything that I do. Facebook doesn't matter, though, whatever it says, type on Facebook, because they don't want to admit to the public what they know about how they can prove who was typing what you know by the time you start logging on facebook with your first two or three keystrokes no matter what letters you press they have an 88 percent ability to guess who it is logging in and we have almost three billion daily user accounts messenger because it's not like on a scale of like 1 to 10 key press length hard so it's so that's my real understanding but

they could prove a lot of computer projects that happened like you think they don't know what happened with that breach they recently released whatever okay i haven't even read it i love any of that post it was kind of a dumb post because i didn't know it was an actual real breach i can tell you something about that i can tell you something that's what i'm saying is we can earn some money that way too if we take a step aside for crystal from him i stumble into these kind of situations but I'm sitting on my sofa doing nothing. When they release, they say it's the most advanced hack, most persistent advanced hacking attack I get them ever.

When Facebook has over like 100,000 attempts to breach the system every day, all day long from bots, from people, whatever. Jealous boyfriend, jealous girlfriend, you know, global adversaries, everything. They say this is the most advanced attack ever? Why did they only scrape 50 million accounts when there's 3 billion? That's confusing, isn't it? I'm pointing out

something of interest. And that's that if you have access to Facebook, to say, it's like going into a store to take the money

because you're hungry around the corner and you got 30, 38 or something and the person goes, give me empty the register, but just give me $5. You see? I mean, this persistent attack probably went on for months and months and months and months and months. I'm guessing it happened seven months ago and they're releasing it now saying, oh my God, look what happened yesterday. They're saying Instagram wasn't harmed by it. I can prove it was.

And Facebook, I'm going to stay friends with. Instagram I respect even more. For one thing, Instagram has disciples, basically. Honestly, the one time I thought about messing with Facebook on a computer, it wasn't to steal money or anything. It was to go back go like fake left like let's go for the money and change the word

friend to fiend to where it was like you have 19 new fiend requests or something do you know katana not not cortana but facebook's katana there's your next

million dollar podcast it's like a virtual reality or something that's all in terminal code that's writing its own language and it's really weird like it's stuff i don't understand i knew computers a long time ago went to rainbow gatherings for 15 years came back and said wait it's still in the same language basically when I messed around with it on Facebook I ended up having to go live talk on Facebook

with guys in suits on Facebook if we were at odds if we were at a war, you would think that after you've seen everything I've lost and all that kind of stuff, you take a finger, I take a hand, you take an arm, and at the end of the day, no one wins those kind of sayings on TV movies and stuff. The last two guys in a war with all their friends and family beside them, those two last people would have a choice

to shoot each other both down or sit down, smoke a joint, and at least agree that war sucks, don't it, man? I'm a little confused why Crystal was at your house towards the end there. The truth is I also. The truth is, like, she walked over here at 3 in the morning barefoot.

And I'm supposed to say, because I'm just a fly motherfucker. Because I'm a to say because I'm just a fly motherfucker because I'm a bad motherfucker kind of thing, right? The cop said, did she come over here to buy a pot or dope from you or smoke with you at three in the morning barefoot? Okay, friend,

I might get some good pot or dope as well. But, um, I didn't think that people were walking across town six miles or so barefoot in the morning. Because I'm just a sexy motherfucker. That was her reason. And then we sat down and smoked like nine joints.

But I might not even be exaggerating. Then midnight came around. And then, you know, 3 o'clock came around, smoked another one, maybe had a drink, maybe did a rail or something like that, maybe not, maybe that's part of the story. The point is, next thing we knew, daylight was coming. Yeah, it was there, and it was noon, and friends were stopping by to have lunch and say hello and such.

We were still sitting on the sofa. We were flirting with each other the night, thinking about maybe we would hook up, maybe we wouldn't. But then it was noon and I said, you know what, sir, this is where the story ends. What are you talking about? Because no one got fucked then either. It's really just a story brother he kept insisting that i did wrong to her the same thing you were saying about how he had paperwork saying she came in and said i raped her which i know she didn't do that for a few reasons like very obvious several reasons and i know for a fact i didn't because it's like when someone I am confused though

What happened after the nine blunts? Did she leave? Catfish was always willing to talk about what he wanted to, but every time I brought up Crystal, or the last time he saw her, it was like hitting a brick wall. I'll admit, it's been pretty frustrating. For a while, it seemed like all the leads I had had been fully exhausted. But then I got a message that seemed to change everything. This person's name had come up multiple times in the past, as someone who had intimate knowledge of what happened to Crystal. As things in Crestone have been heating up,

I've heard from a handful of reliable sources that somewhere floating around out there was video and audio evidence of what happened. At first it sounded crazy, but all the stories kept matching up. This guy messaged me on Facebook, and we started talking. Okay, bro, I'll tell you everything that's the truth, but it will cost you $5,000, and I will not do it for less, and it will have to be face-to-face. How am I supposed to believe you? You're gonna have to try harder than that.

I don't have to try harder than that, bro. You want to know what I know about this girl missing? I'll tell you what happened, the whole story, because I know what happened for sure. I was not there, but I've seen a little video and a voice recording of the last night she was at Catfish's. So if you want to know the truth about what happened to her, then it's going to cost you five grand, nothing less. And I will not do it unless you pay me. Hmm. Not sure that's how this works. I mean, ethically, it doesn't look very good, my friend. And why would I trust you? You're making money off this little show of yours. So why should I tell you anything for free?

You think because I won't talk to you unless I get paid for it, it's not very ethically right? Well, it doesn't matter to me if that's how you feel, bro. And no, I will not talk to you unless I have five grand in my hand, and I will only talk to you face to face, not over the phone. There's a $20,000 reward for information. Why not take that? I put $10,000 of my own money into it.

No one will ever be convicted of it. I don't think anyone will ever be. No, it's only for information. Okay, you're wrong about only for information. It's for the arrest and conviction of the people who are involved. So let's just say the people who are responsible are not alive. Then what? What would I be paying you $5,000 for?

For what I know and what really happened to her. I'll tell you. Okay? Catfish told you that they will not find a body, right? Well, he is not lying. So I know it's really fucked up, but it's the truth. Dude, five grand. You have until tomorrow by noon to decide if you're going to pay me for the whole story of what happened.

Or not. That's all I have to say. Well, I'm not in Colorado right now. Well, that's not my problem. That's all I have to say. Well, I'm not in Colorado right now. Well, that's not my problem. That's all I have to say to you. Send the money so it can be picked up at any place in Colorado. You know my full name. Just send me the tracking numbers. Dude, like I said, I've seen a really short video of what they did.

I know from what Catfish and P*** have told me as well. So we'll see if you send it or not. Goodbye. I'm strong enough at this point to tell you this. He's fucking dead. If you really type that. Not because I'm going to come all the way out there and do anything. But because he has this weird karmic history where he does some dumb shit like that.

Winds up dead. And he wakes up the next day and does it again. This one's different. I'm totally willing to say shit that's totally against everything any attorney would advise anyone to say. And that's, well, we know who the next one to go missing is going to be. And ain't nobody care. You're very close to losing any ability to talk with me whatsoever. Which makes me sad because we actually had a lot of good things

that we thought we could do together. He is the least credible person that he couldn't tell on himself if he wanted to. I can say shit like he'd be dead tomorrow and no one fucking cares. See, I'm not making a mistake, but it's that big of a career mistake for you

if you start listening to him when clearly he just says five grand five grand five grand give me the money give me the money give me the money it means he's out of dope sir if you brought him a hundred dollars worth of heroin which i can help you do that in a lawful manner if you start using his words as credibility in any of your podcasts, your sponsors, your listeners, your own self will all fade away quicker than we can take the stage down. Do what you want. Just the warnings there. Do what you want, though, man. So now I want my 5K. Now I want my 5 grand. Now I want my 5 grand. now i want my 5k now i want my five grand now on my program i want five grand i want five grand i'll frame anybody up everybody knows i don't kill anybody

but he does i hell i know bodies are where it is but i won't talk it hurts because i thought we were friends no gangsters are coming after me he does know some scary people those same scary people are the ones I'm gonna call to make sure he's fucking explaining this tomorrow by tomorrow like tonight next 20 minutes so if he wants to see tomorrow it's what 8pm there whew he better get to thinking for whom the bell tolls

motherfucker I don't care if this is on your podcast hey girls I need a date for real seriously put this on your podcast at this point you have found a phone if you do not call me, I'm having a hard time trusting you.

I am not a hacker. That is why you will never beat me at computery. Hackers make themselves vulnerable. When someone tries to hack me and forces me to remember how to use a computer

to look right back at them, that's just called free money, baby. Yeah, I'm being weird because I know you record stuff that I don't because I remember what people say. Not what I say but I'm innocent and I'm finally accepting that you never come up by taking from things you never come up by hurting people you only fucking lose in the end why the fuck don't people know this mr. Lindsay so I don't even know if it's you it could be my phone hacked me i don't know because a lot of your people have happened in fact you know what they're saying about me and all that stuff i need that to go quiet immediately like that has to go if i have to go with it some say i'm a dreamer but i'm not the only one that's right girl give me a call a call. I saw him on your podcast, Lindsay.

It's my new dating app. Baby, baby, it's me. It's me, darling. You know I wouldn't hurt nobody. It's me. Anyways, what was I saying? Oh, yeah, right. 828-202.

As long as you're 17 to 21, you're good. I'm not that much of a creep. But I'm 23 in the dark. So listen here, girls. You tired of listening to this man's podcast? Tune in at channel.05%er. I'm not a nomad. I just know I'm mad.

Maybe your female podcasters Will take sympathy on that And find that sexy as well The point is this It's a three or four or five year Missing persons case With this much involvement and interest I can only imagine

How fucking pissed The department of justice is That they likely gonna Fucking do it themselves and fucking throw her in someone's yard. I'm glad I'm not there and I don't have a yard here. It seems like some shit used to keep quiet, sir. Like, maybe some, like, um... No, wait a second. Did I make any sense?

Any sense, Amelia Teacher? The bitch probably in WITSEC. Why else I got reports of feds telling people to shut the fuck up about it? Why else would feds be telling people to stay quiet about that little theory about her being in WITSEC? Because I think she probably ran off on me. I don't know what the fuck happened. That ain't for me to think about. I'm not allowed to think about that kind of stuff. Cause I'm one of them dudes that's called smart and clever and shit. I just thought

I was drunk, but the room's really been spinning. Am I on a fucking ride? What is this shit, dude? You're gonna have to pay me to get off of it. No, now I'm off of it. You're gonna have to pay me. Better idea. Let's earn off of this. Since my main focus isn't money. It's not in clearing my name. It's not in proving my innocence. I've heard a lot of crazy stories throughout my time on this case. Some of them seem really far-fetched.

And others seem really damning. It's not really my place or my job to say who's guilty here. I've played you what I've heard, and what I've found, and what I believe is relevant in furthering this investigation. My gut tells me that the answer lies within this group of men in Crestone. I think that multiple people were involved in Crystal's death, and the concealing of her body. Above all, I'm confident that there are more than a few people out there that could set the record straight right now, if they wanted to. But they're scared. But maybe in time, the guilt will get to them. And I've learned that money is a big motivator to this group.

I've been asked for money a dozen times in exchange for information. My answer to all of you is this. There's $20,000 up for the taking. $20,000. And 10,000 of it I put in myself. So if you want some money, come take that. If you know what happened to Crystal, then come take this reward money. I can assure you, it's not a hoax. The money's real. You just have to tell the authorities. For some of these people, doing the right thing just isn't enough. Or maybe their information just wasn't credible in the first place. In my experience, these people want money, and they want it immediately, without involving law enforcement. Also, just because this podcast season is over, it doesn't mean I'm done with this case. We did our best to shake the trees,

and it's time to let the dust settle. Crystal's case has been extremely emotional, and I'm so thankful I've gotten to work with her friends and family, who care and fight for Crystal with such unparalleled passion. Right now, there's incredible momentum in Crystal's case, and soon enough we'll be back with updates. We've seen a lot come to light in a short amount of time. All I can say is, good luck hiding this forever, guys. The clock's ticking. Up and Vanished is an investigative podcast told weekly, produced for Tenderfoot TV by Payne Lindsay, Mike Rooney, and me, Meredith Stedman,

with new episodes every Monday. Executive producers Payne Lindsay and Donald Albright. Additional production by Resonate Recordings, as well as Mason Lindsay, Rob Ricotta, and Christina Dana. Our Intern is Hallie Bidal. Original Score by Makeup and Vanity Set. Our Theme Song is Ophelia, performed by Ezra Rose. Our Cover Art is by Trevor Eiler. Special thanks to the team at Cadence 13. Thanks for listening.