Up and Vanished - S3E3: Sam's Cabin

Episode Date: September 15, 2021

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If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone else close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. from tenderfoot tv in atlanta this is Up and Vanished. I'm your host, Payne Lindsey. Good day. I don't have time to waste, but I know where Ashley is. Contact me as soon as possible. I would like to speak to the family only. This is a message Kimberly received from a stranger on Facebook in February 2020. The name was simply Facebook user. No friends, no connections.

This unknown person said the following. I know where Ashley is. She's alive. Kimberly, where is she? How do you know this? Calm down. Because she's been with my uncle in his basement. Kimberly, i am calm she's been going through a lot but she's fine kimberly how could i believe you show me proof i'm not trying to convince you to believe me you don't have to believe me kimberly where is she

if you don't stop doubting later in the future you'll regret not believing me i'm not going to give up information like that but if you immediately accept my offer i guarantee you you'll be with ashley as soon as possible kimberly what is your offer Kimberly, what is your offer? I'm putting myself in danger And when you finally retrieve her, I don't want anything to do with it I don't want anyone to know how you got this information Kimberly, no one would know I need $10,000 before I release her location I don't want the police involved in this until it's time to retrieve her.

And once everything is done, you'll be grateful for this day. I'm not going to be here for long. It seems like I'm wasting my time, but I know you'll regret not listening to me. This is the kind of shit that Kimberly's been dealing with since 2017. From random psychics with false tips, harassment from strangers online with ransom demands, it's insane. As if losing her sister was not enough to endure,

Kimberly has been fighting an uphill battle from the start. She's fought day and night, leading a powerful campaign to find Ashley. And through her efforts, she's made waves within the media and government officials, shining a light on what is clearly a widespread epidemic, missing and murdered indigenous women. In 2018, Kimberly testified before Congress, pleading for help. Today, the committee will hold its last oversight hearing this Congress

on the very important topic of missing and murdered individuals in Indian country. This matter involves Indian children, youth, men and women and affects tribal communities across the country. Departments of Justice and the Interior are required to investigate and prosecute homicides committed against or by Indians on tribal lands. However, it is less clear who has the responsibility for investigating cases of missing indigenous individuals. This lack of clarity has left tribes and families unsure of who to call for help and has contributed to our lack of knowledge on the scope of the problem. Today's hearing is an important step toward fully understanding the scope and working to address the crisis in Indian

country. Ms. Loring Heavy Runner. Thank you for allowing me to speak for my sister Ashley. It's exactly 18 months ago since the last time that I got to see my sister. It was two months after she went missing. The BIA was still stating that Ashley is of age and is able to leave whenever she wants to. That is not a proper response when dealing with a woman that's been missing for two months. With working with the law enforcement at the Blackfeet Reservation and the BIA, we went weeks without even speaking with them. They did not call and they did not give us any information. One time I spoke with this officer. He stopped me and he talked to me and he said, these guys are not taking Ashley's case seriously. They are putting her as she is of age and she can leave when she wants to

i believe that if the law enforcement would have searched for my sister when she first went missing we would have my sister and we wouldn't have to search for 18 months through the wind and three feet of snow being chased by grizzly bears, wondering, is my sister in the mountains, knowing that there is grizzly bears all over the Rocky Mountains? Is my sister up there? If they would have taken her serious as a person, because we are important, I believe that my sister would have been here or we would have had closure. Thank you, Ms. Loring, Heavy Runner. Okay, we'll begin five-minute rounds of questions. It is a case Montana has been following for at least 18 months, and now the nation is getting

to know more about the disappearance of Ashley Loring Heavy Runner. Ashley's sister, Kimberly Loring, sat this afternoon in front of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee detailing her sister's case. The goal of that, hoping lawmakers in Washington, D.C. can help her and so many others who continue to search for missing and murdered indigenous women. Today, Kimberly appeared before the United States Committee on Indian Affairs in Washington, D.C. to speak about her experiences with law enforcement following Ashley's disappearance. Kimberly told senators about the lengths between updates from law enforcement, the evidence searchers provided to investigators themselves,

and a lack of seriousness, she says, taken by officers. On one of my trips to Montana, my team and I met with Kimberly in Missoula, where she spoke at a town hall event, furthering awareness on this crisis. So I'm going to call Ms. Kimberly Loring up here, whose sister Ashley is pretty much the reason we started the database and website, a group of students at Blackfeet Community College in 2017. We really were just supporting Kimberly and her efforts. I think a lot of the legislation that you see now

is because of her meeting with politicians. So my name is Kimberly Loring. In two weeks, it's been four years since I've got to actually speak to my sister Ashley. She went missing in June 2017 on the Blackfeet Reservation. Before she went missing, she mentioned to me about these women that are going missing. She said, Sister, these women are going missing.

I didn't know that my sister was going to be Ashley that's on the missing flyer. That's why I stand here today to honor that her heart was so set on helping those women in a way Ashley helped the women by being a beautiful example of if you let the trauma override you and you want to hide from it this is what. My sister Ashley had a big heart. Huge heart. She's amazing. I miss her every day. She made a big change by being that beautiful example. Okay, back to the case.

We know that Ashley had a strange encounter with her father. We know that Ashley went to a party at Vernon's house, and that Mario posted a video on Facebook that we haven't been able to find. We know that according to both Vernon and Mario, Ashley left that party, and have no idea where she went afterwards. We also know that Rosie claims to have been hacked on Facebook and a message was sent to Ashley's cousin claiming, quote, I had part in her murder. If all these things are true, what we don't know is where Ashley went after the party at Vernon's house on June 5th, 2017. After my second meeting with Vernon, he introduced me to his friend Timmy and we struck up a conversation outside the RV.

If people know anything, it's just fucked up. It is fucked up. It's really fucked up. Yeah, I don't know how someone lives with himself keeping a secret like that. Yeah, I don't know how someone lives with themselves keeping a secret like that, you know? According to Timmy, he heard from some friends in town that after the party at Vernon's, Ashley was trying to hitch a ride. To where exactly, I'm not sure, but she never got that ride. She had that, around that period of time that she was all fucked up trying to get a ride.

But she was so fucked up that they locked her out of that vehicle. Felt bad about it. Who was that? J.D. Bird, Chanel Bird, and Selina Olinger. They wouldn't let Ashley in their vehicle because she was all fucked up. According to Timmy, they didn't let Ashley in the car because she was too intoxicated. Isn't that when your friends should be giving you rides anyways? Yeah, Chanel Bird and J.D. Bird, they're my first cousins. Where are they? because she was too intoxicated. Isn't that when your friends should be giving you rides anyways? girl in. That's just what JD told me. They didn't care and they probably feel fucked up about not letting her in. You know, they could have saved her life. But you know, had they let her in the vehicle,

JD's in town. You know, JD was at my house this morning. He's the one that told me about that. So I told him I was going to talk to you guys and I said, fuck you, you want to talk to him? And he said, fuck no. He said he didn't want to talk. Why? I don't know why. Anything comes out of his mouth is bullshit. So I don't know.

Fuck. Why do you say that? Because I know him. He's my cousin. He's at my folks'. Can we go there? 4th Avenue South, Moxon Flat. Let's go.

I just know JD's gonna be pissed. It'd be good to do it, though. You know, bring justice to the family. Yeah, we'll see what JD says, huh? Yeah, just go inside and see if he minds talking to me outside. We'll check it out. Hey bird. What's up, bro? How you doing?

Just relaxing out today. Talking about Ashley's deal. If you'd be willing to talk to these guys about that night, wouldn't I? You know, when she was there, trying to get her eyes. So you don't have to. Heather, are you there? Yeah, I'm trouble where you think I go. What night was that, bro? June 5th 2017?

I can hear, bro. I just told him I wanted to talk to you guys, and he just shook his head no. Did he see the microphone on your shoulder? Oh, yeah, he knew it. Did he say anything at all? He didn't say shit. It's annoying.

It is pretty fucking annoying, hey. Is that weird to you, or is that normal JD behavior? You would think that if he was friends with Ashley and he cared about her, he would... He would give her a ride and help her, yeah, no shit. Or he would talk to us about it four years later when she's still missing. Exactly.

Pretty shitty of him. Yeah. Yeah, I'd like to think my cousin, he'd fucking leave me for dead, you know? You think so? Yeah, my own family, my own brothers too, they don't give a fuck. Why?

Just the way it is. For all my friends, I really hope shit works out and shit does surface. It'll be good. Thank you, man. It was good talking to you guys. I appreciate your help today. You bet, man. Anytime. Ashley tried to hitch a ride with J.D. Bird and some other people, but they declined. So then what happened?

It's late, it's dark, and Ashley just vanishes off the face of the earth. Think of the last time you bought something to wear, something to decorate your house, something for your family or friends. What if each time you made a purchase, you got a little something back? With Rakuten, you can. You can earn cash back on just about anything you buy from over 750 stores.

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please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to any operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. I've spent a good part of a year looking into Ashley's disappearance, and the rumors in this case go extremely deep. Deeper than any other case I've covered. It's time to explore these rumors in depth. We were told that she was seen partying on the road by this man. And we went searching for her up in the mountains. She was seen alongside the road by this man.

This man? Who is this man? He's a suspect. His name's Sam McDonald. Enter Sam McDonald. It doesn't take too much poking around in this case before you start hearing this guy's name. Kimberly firmly believes that he might hold the key to what happened to Ashley. If you follow the maddening trail of rumors in the timeline leading up to Ashley's disappearance,

so far it goes like this. The weird encounter with her father. The party at Vernon's. Ashley trying to hitch a ride with JD late at night after the party. And then, sometime within the next 24 hours, she's rumored to have gone to Big Al's house. Big Al, may he rest in peace, had a house outside of Browning. This is the party house. Out of all the stories surrounding Ashley in those final days, this is one we truly need to consider. And that's because it came directly from one of Kimberly's friends,

who at the moment will remain unnamed. He told Kimberly that he was at Big Al's house, and he saw Ashley there with his own eyes. He told me that that morning Ashley was there and she was downstairs. And then that's when Sam McDonald showed up at the house. According to Kimberly's friend, he was sitting in the kitchen with Ashley at Big Al's house, on what would likely be the morning of June 6. That's when this Sam McDonald character shows up. Apparently Ashley and Sam knew each other,

but it's unclear exactly how close they really were. He alleges that Ashley got in the car with Sam, and they drove to his house, a cabin deep in the mountains about 45 minutes outside of Browning. Maybe just another crazy rumor, right? I would normally think that, but Kimberly talked to Sam McDonald directly, in person. And these words came from his mouth.

He lives up in the mountains next to St. Mary's Lake. They stayed there for a few days. He kept saying that she was outside dancing, dancing and pointing at the sky. After Sam picked up Ashley from Big Al's house, according to Sam himself, she stayed there at his cabin with him for several days. They stayed up for a while, they partied, and then it came to the day that he wanted to bring her home. He said that I drove her up to the mountain up by Divide. When you go back home to Browning, you can go either right and that's going up the mountain or you can go left and go by Duck Lake Road. He said that he went right up to the mountain. She told him to pull over because I have a ride that's going to meet me. It's going to be V-Dog.

He leaned his seat back and went to sleep. And when he woke up, she was gone. And that was his story. Let's get this straight here. Sam openly tells Kimberly that he picked her up from Big Al's house. She stays at his cabin for several days, partying as he described it, then eventually drives Ashley up to a divide in the mountain where she was going to be picked up by some guy named V-Dog.

Then he falls asleep in the car, and when he wakes up, she's gone? Does this guy have the worst luck in the world? Or is there something extremely nefarious about this? As if this story wasn't suspicious enough as is, the talk around town about Sam McDonald doesn't paint a pretty picture either. If you dropped somebody off there and you fell asleep, then why didn't you come search with us? Why didn't he come search ever?

He never searched with us. He has cameras in his house and outside, but he never showed us them. He never wanted to show us them. After Ashley went missing, he remodeled his house. He started to tear up the floor. He started to, like, fix the house up. We talked to people that live next to Sam's.

There was stories of these girls that would leave his house and they would have to swim out in the lake and get away from them. This girl told us that he has a secret, like the secret room in his house. He put me in there, she said. It's disturbing. They said that there would always be girls that would run away from his house naked and would have syringes in their bodies. People would run up to his lawn naked, wanting help. These guys that live next to him have been talking to the tribe

and keep telling them there's something bad gonna happen if you let this man still stay here. Get him out of here, like something's happening over there, like these girls keep showing up on my lawn naked. You need to do something before somebody is hurt, really hurt. And they didn't do anything about it. to do something before somebody is hurt, really hurt. And they didn't do anything about it. And then Ashley goes.

Sam always stuck to the story that he dropped her off and he fell asleep. And then that V-dog came and picked her up. I mean, according to what we all know, he is the last person to see her. Right. If she did see somebody else, that person has not said that. Right. There are other characters who he says she was planning to meet up with, but to my understanding, he was one of the last ones to,

or the last one by some, to see her alive. Here's Shannon Newth again, a local reporter from Great Falls who's been covering Ashley's story for the last several years. That story is one of those gray areas, right, where there's a lot of question marks. If you believe his story, what happened next? And if you choose not to believe his story, why is he not in custody? It's one or the other. Either the story is true and something happened after that, or that didn't happen like that at all.

Right. I'm trying to ride my, like, be the objective news anchor one with also my own, like, things, because I don't ride my, like, be the objective news anchor one with also my own, like, things, because I don't want to, like, come back and be like, oh, she's not very objective anymore. I do think just as a person looking at that, either that it happened exactly as he said it happened, and whatever happened to Ashley

happened after she got out of that car, or, yeah, that's a convenient story. No one really knows, because he's, to our knowledge, the only person who can verify that story. It's his story against what? Hey, how's it going? I'm Nelly Furtado, and I'm bringing the party to the 2024 Juno Awards. Join me in Halifax for Canada's biggest night in music, with performances by my friends, The Beaches, Maestro Fresh West,

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Understood. Available now on Spotify. Chanty was going to take me on a trip to the place he's from. Empire. Understood. Available now on Spotify. or not. Just because you stop believing in them doesn't mean they're gone. Here he comes. And they're angry you left. Imaginary, now playing only in theaters. Kimberly isn't the only one who's heard these stories about Sam McDonald. I met up with Vernon again. Rosie was there too. So are you still close with Sam McDonald? Mm, no, I see him once in a great while, but... Sam told me he drove her up to the top of the divide,

and there's like a pullout up there. So he said he pulled out right there. He said he pulled out there, and then he kind of laid his seat back and then he fell asleep. So when he fell asleep, he woke up and she was gone. Do you believe Sam's story? No. I don't. Why is somebody going to pull into a turnout right there and put their seat

back and fall asleep, wake up and comes up missing, you know, and is just gone? Ashley would have woke him up and told him, you know, oh, well, my ride's here. They both mentioned a mutual friend named Spoon, who was a lot closer to Sam McDonald than they are. Spoon told Vernon and Rosie that he stopped by Sam's house that same morning, the morning he claims to have fallen asleep in his car while Ashley was waiting to be picked up by some guy named V-Dog. I'm over the rumors in this case. I need to hear Spoon's story directly from him. Rosie offered to walk down the street to Spoon's house to see if he'd be willing to talk to us. Hi, put me down.

Would you want to come over here and talk to this interview crew about the Ashley situation? I just wanted your information on when you met Sam. Out there supposedly because it burns in there too. This little van here. It's like a documentary crew. Spoon? Yeah. documentary crew. Spoon? Yep. How you doing man? Hey, nice to meet you. This is being tight so we can do it.

Everybody wants to know where she's at and what happened. There's people that know something, too scared to come forward because the retributions from the family, you know, are going to be hard when they find out. It ain't going to end right there when they find out, is what I'm saying. There's going to be a lot of hate. These families probably hate each other

for the rest of their lives. If something tragic did happen, the people that are hiding it, they're probably scared. It's on them. It's their conscience. They've got to live with it. I can just tell you guys what Sam told me that day. I don't know what he left out or if he left out anything at all. On the same morning that Ashley seemingly evaporated in the presence of Sam McDonald, Spoon was heading over to Sam's house

to get some work done on his car. He told me to come out early that morning, about 7. I didn't make it out there until around 11, I think. I get there, he wasn't there, but his son was there, and I tried to walk down to his there, but his son was there. I tried to walk down to his house, and his son told me to just come back a couple hours. I was like, all right.

I drove down the road, and my brakes were sticking, so I started to bleed them just right on the side of the road there. I was underneath my car. The car pulls up. The guy says, what are you doing? I looked up, and it was Sam. I said, come up to the house and do it. I went up there it was Sam. So I said come up to the house and do it. So I went up there and Sam asked me to walk outside with him and walked outside with him and he was like I don't know where she went. I was like who?

He said it again, I don't know where she went. I was like what do you mean who? He said Ashley. He's like we were sitting up on divide and he nod, Ashley, we were sitting up on Divide and he nodded off. And when he woke up, she wasn't around. He said he walked over to the next road where she was before, she wasn't there. He said so he walked around for about an hour and a half, two hours, looking for her in those roads and he couldn't find her. And about that time, that's probably about the time I was at his house, when I got to his house, he said, I don't know where she his house. He's like, I don't know where she went, though.

He's like, I looked up and down those roads. I drove up and down them, yelling her name. He said that. Never seen her again, he said. Sam figured maybe she walked to the highway, and he checked or something. But I don't know. That's as far as Sam knew, or at least what he told me. How did he seem?

He seemed confused. He was tired. It was hot that day. It was summertime, June. He didn't know what to do. He's like, I looked all over for her. He's like, I've been up there all morning looking for her. He's like, I don't know where she went.

I don't think she really knew the area, so I don't think she really knew which direction to go. Because there's a lot of trees and roads, back roads up there. You can easily get lost in those trees, you know? When you were seeing him that day and he was looking at the ground saying, you know, I don't know where she went. Yeah. Did it seem to you like he was being sincere or that he was putting on a show for you? He did seem sincere about it.

Like, he was confused. You could tell he was confused. He was exhausted. It was hot out. It was, like, 90-something degrees at day, you know? When he started telling me about it, it had probably been about around two, three hours maybe. Is that long enough to be of concern?

In the mountains, yeah. There's a lot of things that could happen in the mountains. Like around here, you know, we got everything, you know, grizzlies, mountain lions, wolves, everything, you know. There's a lot of concerns when you're in the mountains. It's not just getting in and out of your car, you know. As the sun goes throughout the day, you know, all the shadows change, so it looks different

in a matter of half hour. It's easy to get lost up there. All I know is what I know, you know all the shadows change so it looks different in a matter of half hour it's easy to get lost up there all i know is what i know you know i can't really say much on what i heard but i mean there's a lot of people that truly believe sam knows a lot more than he's saying all right enough of all this where does this sam mcdonald guy live of all this shit, where does this Sam McDonald guy live? This man is a complete ghost online. No addresses, no phone numbers, nothing at all. But Vernon's been to his house before. Is there an address?

I cannot find it. Like how to get there? Probably pull it up on Google Maps. He showed me on Google Maps where his cabin is. Here's St. Mary's Lake. He kind of stays about right along. Let's see. I'm thinking right now, I'm pretty sure it's this one.

This one? Yeah. Miles deep into the mountains outside of Browning is Sam McDonald's cabin on St. Mary's do it. As I pulled down this long gravel drive, I saw him outside in the front yard. We parked down the hill out of sight and made our way on foot up towards the cabin. I don't always get nervous, but I have no shame in saying that in this moment, I was scared as hell. As I approached his property, he slowly appeared from around one of the cars, but his body was in a strange position. Hey man, how you doing?

His back was pressed against the passenger side window. Damn right. And his left hand was fully extended behind him. And I could tell he was holding something. A gun. and looked at my cameras, and then I grabbed this, and if I'd have seen a gun in your hand, I'd have raised it. If I'd have seen a gun come out, I'd have shot you. Yes. I'm going to go. Our theme song is Ophelia by Ezra Rose. Sound design, mixing, and mastering by Cooper Skinner. Additional production by Cooper Skinner, Eric Quintana, and myself, Mike Rooney.

Our cover art is by Trevor Eiler. Special thanks to Grace Royer and Oren Rosenbaum at UTA. Ryan Nord, Jesse Nord, and Matthew Papa at The Nord Group. Station 16, Beck Media and Marketing, as well as Chris Cochran and the team at Cadence 13. Visit us on social media at UpAndVanish, Thanks for listening.