Up and Vanished - S3E6: Tashina

Episode Date: October 13, 2021

New players emerge To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

experience basketball like never before with bet mgm an authorized gaming partner of the nba ready to shoot your shot we've made the bet mgm experience more immersive and fun for all types of basketball fans being on the sidelines is one thing this season experience basketball on the foul line exciting state-of-the-art live tracking technology and dozens of sportsbook selections await you at BetMGM Sportsbook. Tap into every game on your mobile devices. Get up off the sideline and drive to the basket yourself. No matter which team starts popping off, you'll find out why there's truly nothing like laying up a W with the king of sportsbooks. Visit BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older. Ontario only. Please play responsibly.

If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone else close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. Previously on Up and Vanished. Previously on Up and Vanished. We were told that she was seen partying on the road by this man. This man? Who is this man? He's a suspect. His name's Sam McDonald.

Sam told me he drove her up to the top of the vine. There's like a pullout up there. So he said he pulled out right there. He kind of laid his seat back and then he fell asleep. He woke up and she was gone. Do you believe Sam's story? No. I leaned my chair back.

Last thing we talked about, she said, Sam, where's that cabin up there? And I showed her the cabin on Divide. Way at the top of the smoke cabin. She's like, how'd you get to it? I said, I think there's a trail that goes around the back. And I laid my chair back like that, and boom. I went to sleep.

Where do you think she went? She got her ride with V-Dog. We figured V-Dog was at Paul's. Do you know Paul or no? No. I have never seen him or anything. But I know of him and what he does. You know, I hear things.

My cousin, my cousin, come on, mister. He's missing right now. Leo Wagner. A search is underway on the Blackfeet Res reservation for 26-year-old Leo Wagner. If you hear anything new on Leo's case, let me know too, because I'm kind of like looking into all of them at the same time now. They're kind of thinking that Ashley and Leo, they're both kind of intertwined somehow from the same person. From Tinderfoot TV in Atlanta, this is Up and Vanished.

I'm your host, Payne Lindsey. Another person from Blackfeet Nation has disappeared. We're talking about a town with only 10,000 people in it. This is not normal. Leo Wagner is the cousin of Vernon Wagner, the guy who threw the party Ashley went to on June 5th. Leo is 26 years old, and he went missing in Browning, Montana on April 27th, 2021. Is Leo Wagner's disappearance related to Ashley's case? I have no idea, but at this rate,

it's certainly possible and I can't rule it out. It's easy to start wanting to connect things that don't actually connect at all. Another person is now missing too, a child. Three-year-old Arden Pepion was last seen on April 22nd in Browning. It's one thing to read these shocking statistics online somewhere, but it's another thing entirely to see it happening in real time, right before my eyes. People are literally getting away with murder out here. In response to the missing persons cases in Browning, Montana, Blackfeet Law Enforcement held their first ever press conference. Good morning, everybody. Blackfeet

Law Enforcement Services has an open and ongoing investigation on 26-year-old missing person Leo Wagner. The following is a timeline of events regarding the law enforcement response and search and rescue effort to recover leo wagner on april 27 2021 black people enforcement officers responded to west shore road in st mary montana for a report of a male that appeared to be under the influence of an unknown substance and was walking up and down the shoreline of St. Mary Lake. BLAS officers responded to the area but were unable to locate the male or the reporting party. An hour later, a second call came in to BLAS dispatch that the same male was walking north on West Shore Road and reported to have an injury to his arm.

BLAS officers and Glacier County EMS responded and searched for the male on West Shore Road and in the St. Mary and Babb area and were unsuccessful in locating him. On April 28, 2021, BLES received a missing person report for Leo Wagner. Leo was last seen on 4-27 by family and friends in the Babs St. Mary area. On May 2nd, a cabin on Big Nose Bay is discovered and was burglarized. It was apparent that an injury had occurred during destruction of property at the cabin and items near the media area, including clothing, were identified by family members as belonging to Leo. Clothing identified by family members as belonging to Leo indicate that he was severely injured and led up to the St. Mary Lake. Audio recordings were shared

on social media regarding the disappearance of Leo. Blackwood law enforcement officers and investigators identified and interviewed individuals in the recording and searched the area described in the video. Throughout the course of the investigation, claims made in the recordings were proved to be fictitious and unsubstantiated. BLES reaffirms their commitment to public safety and protecting and serving the community. Black Bay Law Enforcement Services will continue to respond and treat all missing person cases as criminal despite the facts at the time of the call.

Black Bay Law Enforcement maintains the jurisdiction and primary investigation of Leo's disappearance and all tips and information will be followed up on. As further details come about on both these cases, we will bring the community on them. With that, thank you. So we have the party at Vernon's on June 5th. Ashley goes to Big Al's house. She gets picked up by Sam McDonald. Ashley stays with Sam for several days.

Then on the morning of June 11th, Sam decides to take her home. Leaving Sam's house, they stop at a divide on the mountain because Ashley says she's going to be picked up by a guy named v-dog Turns out v-dog is actually a real person. His real name is paul valenzuela So either something happened while ashley was with sam or somebody did pick her up that morning And if sam's telling the truth that person is v-dog paul valenzuela We got to check into this guy. Paul is 53 years old.

He's been in and out of prison several times throughout his life. Theft, burglary, possession, these kinds of offenses. Most recently, an illegal firearms charge in 2016. I was able to dig up the dash cam footage from his arrest that day. He doesn't say much, but at least I know what he looks like now. 10-8-4-9-2-8. Are you allowed to have a pistol? Are you allowed to have any weapons?

Are you convicted felon? Have your rights been restored? Your weapons rights, have they been restored? That's a problem. Okay. 10-8-4-9-2-8. Alright, so he said that he was driving 7 hours a problem. Okay. All right, so he said that he was driving seven hours a day. And he thought the speed limit was 40 miles per hour. And he's a drinker.

Oh, Washington, Venezuela, 2020 expiration. Convicted felon. Also, I took two guns off of him. Can you check for Brady? He's a convicted felon. So did Paul know Ashley? Were they friends? Acquaintances?

Had they ever even met? All things I don't know the answer to, but we're sure as hell going to try to find out. Interesting fact about V-Dog, or Paul Valenzuela, is that during the time of Ashley's disappearance, he was in a rocky marriage with one of Ashley's cousins, Tashina Running Crane. She also goes by T. So with V-Dog, according to Sam, being the last person to have seen Ashley,

T is suddenly an important player here too. But let's not jump to any conclusions. Right after Ashley went missing, Kimberly was frantically calling everyone in her phone book, asking if they'd seen her. Friends, family, distant relatives, literally everyone. I mean, wouldn't you? my dad's side, Tashina. She's my family. And I called her to see if she's seen Ashley. She said to call Paul Venezuela. Call him because he gave her a ride.

And you tell me if he's being rude to you, you let me know. Why would she say if he's being rude to you? Just made it sound like, if he's, like, any rude to you, you let me know or something like that. So I did. I called Paul Venezuela, and he blew up. Blew up how? Was he angry?

Yeah, he was very angry. He was very angry. He blew up, and he said that she's lying. Do not believe her because she's lying. She's lying to you. She's lying to you. Lying? Lying about what? It's only been a few weeks at this point. She was just checking to see if you'd seen her.

Apparently, around the time that Ashley went missing, Kimberly took notice to a change in location on T's Facebook account, based on her status updates. When I got back home from Morocco, T started posting. She started posting on Facebook a lot. Posting that she went to Kent, Washington. So I got back on June 8th, and around June 8th to June 13th, she claims that she got left in Seattle.

She said that she got left by Paul. Paul left her. I remember thinking, like, darn, that T just got left in Seattle. You know, like, that's awful. But then she posted again the very next day with Paul. But she took it all down. So she was lying. These posts have all since been deleted. So I can't really validate it beyond this.

But if Kimberly is correct here, during the time that Ashley disappeared, she distinctly remembers seeing T posts on Facebook that she went to Washington with Paul. Then she was suddenly left stranded, while Paul presumably went back to Browning. If you look at it, they took off around the time that Ashley went missing. You know, that seems really weird. Coincidental for sure.

We could easily hyperanalyze this. But we won't. What is weird is Kimberly's next story about T. Kimberly gets a barrage of text messages from T, out of nowhere. She told me on text messages, she said, Ashley is with Paul Venezuela in Shelby, Montana, in his hotel room in this number. She has blonde hair now.

Call the FBI and call the cops and tell them to go get her because she's in a hotel with Ashley. She texted me and said, Ashley's with Paul and Shelby in this hotel room and she has blonde hair now. She's there. Call the cops right now. So we called the cops, called the FBI and the BIA. When they flew down there, they go there. The girl that's with him with blonde hair, Tashina. It was Tashina.

Herself? Herself. She had blonde hair. Was she just toying with you? Why would she do that? Have you thought about why she would do that? Just to toy around. To give hope that Ashley is still around. Maybe it was some kind of sick hope that Ashley is still around.

Maybe it was some kind of sick game that she wanted to play. There's a reason why she's doing that. There's something that she's obviously hiding. This is beyond perplexing. There's a video that she made of herself saying that she was set up. Around that same time, Tia uploaded a video to YouTube called Set Up. It's audio only and the screen is black, but Tia's having a conversation with her friend Marina. Well, to be real, it's more like her friend Marina is talking at her.

See, that is where you fucked up. I know all of that. All of it. You should have just minded your own because that giving, I know you couldn't. You know why? What did I tell you? You have a heart. You have empathy. You have loyalty to the people that you probably, you know, if you had loyalty like that for yourself, the way you have for everybody else, T, you would not be fucking sitting here.

And I told you that a lot. How many times? I sit there and would plug your ear. We sit there and laughed about it this is marina talking and how I know fucking Ashley is because of fucking her grandma and them they're all my cousins they live on Mount Badger and you know I mean and I was like you mean that little fucking Mally fucking run and she was like yeah and I was like isn't she just young like what and here she's like yeah well she's like you know come here or whatever and he was like yeah and i was like isn't she just young like what and he's she's like yeah well she's like you know come here or whatever and he said oh yeah she's missing and he said

and it was the like day the very next day is when i've seen this one's post on there about paul and about ashley and everything what it is is this is what it is paul has been in jail people are in jail with murderers killers fucking con artists I think you don't go to jail get better You literally go to jail and you learn things in jail and you wouldn't normally fucking a normal person wouldn't know I wouldn't even have the audacity to do but when you're in there fucking with a bunch of criminals Of course, it becomes every day because of how you think and how everything like he's bacon on your fucking crazy Because you're gonna go down for it

they're not gonna bring her back here they're not ever they're not ever gonna bring her back here but not because now all everybody that lied to the feds all that is interfering with a federal investigation it's got a fucking 15 year minimum and not only that but because it's gone on for so long the fucking judges are are not going to let this shit slide. If they send this to Missoula, that Adler lady will throw the book at everybody. I'm not even joking. And if it goes to Great Falls, they got to deal with that fucking white sheriff down there. This is why.

Because of your priors. Because of your fucking fighting. You're fighting people out in public. You're shooting downtown. of that remember what i told you long time you need to stop it they're banking on her being crazy and what i was literally sat there took actually no let me talk to her all right sorry when i walked out there into my uncle's house and i hadn't seen my uncle since my cousin since his daughter got busted like a year and a half ago And then so I walk into the house and here's fucking Loxie sitting there. No fuck. She looks rough. There's Loxie sitting there Keely was out there and

Shalissa and then mind you these are all of my first cousins and I was like so now they're retired You're your daughter's, your daughter's missing? I was like, what are you fucking doing right here? I mean, this is a young, crazy, wild girl. She's alluring for fuck's sake. She's got a half a bottle. And excuse my language. But honest to God.

Paul's trying to set me up, Marina. Bottom line is, this girl is fucking missing. And she's over there. And they're hanging out because guess what that one missing poster in washington is one of fucking eight million fucking women that are missing and not just from this side of the fucking border but from up there think of the last time you bought something to wear something to decorate your house something for your family or friends what if each time you made a purchase, you got a little something back?

With Rakuten, you can. You can earn cash back on just about anything you buy from over 750 stores. If you've ever bought electronics, home decor, fashion and beauty, or booked a trip, well, you could have got cash back. But don't worry, it's not too late. It's free and easy to use,

and you get cash back deposited into your PayPal account or sent to you as a check. Earn cash back at stores like Sephora, Old Navy, and Expedia. It's the smartest way to shop, plain and simple. Start your shopping at Rakuten.ca or get the Rakuten app. That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N.ca. Will you rise with the sun to help change mental health care forever? or get the Rakuten app. That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N dot C-A. Will you rise with the sun to help change mental health care forever? Join the Sunrise Challenge to raise funds for CAMH, the Center for Addiction and Mental Health to support life-saving progress in mental health care.

From May 27th to 31st, people across Canada will rise together and show those living with mental illness and addiction that they're not alone. Help CAMH build a future where no one is left behind. So, who will you rise for? Register today at sunrisechallenge.ca. That's sunrisechallenge.ca. Like, why would you make a video of yourself seeing your setup? Hey, nobody sets you up. Nobody sets you up. I only call to say, hey, cuz, have you seen Ashley?

T was claiming Paul Valenzuela, her now ex-husband, was trying to set her up for Ashley's disappearance. Is that true? And if it's not, where is that idea coming from? I've forged a few different relationships along the way during my investigation. People I talk to and check in with periodically. One of which is Vernon. During a call with Vernon, he spoke of one of the last times he saw Ashley before the party he had.

I mean, Rosie here was sitting there watching TV. And then next thing I know, I just kind of heard a knock on her door. And it was pretty late. times he saw Ashley before the party he had. That night, sometime in early June before she went missing, Ashley stopped by Vernon's for a few minutes. And outside was Paul Valenzuela in the car waiting for her. If that's true, the question of whether Ashley and Paul knew each other has been answered. I spoke to Vernon's friend Spoon spoon about paul yeah he's my cousin but i don't i don't talk to him there's other stories that v-dog came to go pick her up yeah that's that's as far as i was told has v-dog ever talked about that like i said i wouldn't talk to him why would ashley hang out with that guy

Like I said, I wouldn't talk to him. Why would Ashley hang out with that guy? I don't know. I mean, the first time I found out that they were hanging out was out in the little agency at her grandma's house. I went to go see her uncle Bill, and he'd come over to me. He said, I've got to ask you something. And I'd seen Paul's truck parked there. He said, what do you know about that guy?

I said, well, what are you asking me? Like? I said, well, what are you asking, you know? Like, what do you mean, what are you asking? What are you asking me? Is he a good guy, this and that? I said, yeah, he's a decent man. Because Bill was having issues with them hanging out, you know? Bill Blue that night was concerned about his niece hanging around here.

I decided I would cash in my can we meet again card with Sam McDonald. After all, he did offer. I drove out to his cabin on St. Mary Lake to have a second conversation. So if Ashley did get in the car with Paul, which it sounds like she probably did, what do you think happened from that point?

I don't know. I don't know. See, that's what I don't know i hear a lot of stuff you know and i think something and then next thing no this cuts that off you know and i don't know i don't know what who did what i was asleep, you know? Sam eventually told me that a few weeks after Ashley turned up missing, he got a random phone call from Paul Valenzuela's brother, Chris. His name is Chris Valenzuela.

Chris Valenzuela. It's his younger brother. So this Chris guy calls, he calls me. My son's with me. I say, fucking record this shit. He says, Sam, I don't know you. He said, but I'm an honest man and I got a conscience. I got to tell you, Paul and T killed Ashley. T and Paul killed Ashley.

killed Ashley. T and Paul killed Ashley. He said, and I don't know you, Sam, but they're going to try to frame you. We record and get most of it, you know? You did? Yeah. Do you have it?

No, I don't have it. I gave it to the BIA vets. That's before I thought anything. Of course you did. And they told me, Sam, don't talk to Blackfeet cops because there's four of them on Paul's payroll. He denied it to the feds. They told me.

But he told you this? Yes. Sam had mentioned in our first interview as well that after Ashley went missing, he started trying to sober up. He said that he realized he was suddenly wrapped up in a missing persons investigation and began to fear for his own life.

You know, that's why I kept a journal for quite a while. Do you still have a journal? Yeah, I do. Yeah. I do. Do you have those notes that I can look at? I give them to my daughter all the time in case something happens to me.

So you don't have them here? No, not the main ones. I do daily shit that I think about, you know, but... Would your daughter let us see them? Probably not. No. Why not? I don't know.

I mean, would you let us see them? I mean, to me, that's your key out of this thing. Yeah, I know. You can look at them. I got them. They ain't taking them. I don't want no pictures. You know, people can fucking change shit, you know?

I'm not going to do shit. I'm not going to do shit. Come in. You guys come in. Thanks, man. I'm not gonna do shit. Come in. You guys come in. Thanks man. It's cooler in here anyway. Close the door though, come in. What does that say? Open when needed.

Ashley Loring information. I think now's when you need it. Right there. At what point did you start writing this stuff down? A couple days into that poster. Okay, so once you realized she was missing, you were like, I need to go back and remember all these? Yeah, details.

Sam did agree to let me take pictures of these notes and for me to post them for you on the podcast. He had an envelope above his refrigerator packed to the brim full of small pages torn out of a notebook, all with different dates and notes scribbled on them, front to back. I've put them in the order they were written, and I'm about to share them with you. I'll also say that these notes were definitely already sitting there inside his house.

He didn't plan this. He was pretty nervous to even let me see them at first. They were all written in different colored pens, sometimes pencil, and some of them extremely hard to even read. That being said, the notes themselves are legitimate. I'm Samantha Cole, host of the new season of Understood, The Pornhub Empire. Over the course of four episodes, I'll tell you how a horny YouTube knockoff in Canada came to dominate the porn world, only to shatter their cheeky reputation in a massive scandal. The Pornhub Empire is a new season of Understood from the CBC. The Pornhub Empire. Understood. Available Understood from the CBC. The Pornhub Empire.

Understood. Available now on CBC Listen and everywhere you get your podcasts. For just $4.99, you can get a Subway 6-inch Black Forest ham sub made with our new fresh sliced deli. But the fresh slicing doesn't stop at beautiful Black Forest ham. We're talking tantalizing turkey, perfectly piled pepperoni, sensationally sliced salami, so you can lunch legendary, dinner deliciously, breakfast brilliantly. We're talking

friggin' fresh slicing and I'm yelling yes way! Get a six-inch black forest ham for only $4.99. Only at Subway. Price and participation may vary. Extras, taxes, and delivery additional. Expires April 8th. Hey, how's it going? I'm Nellie Furtado and I'm bringing the party to the 2024 Juno Awards. Join me in Halifax for Canada's expires April 8th. Don't miss the 2024 Juno Awards live from Halifax. Sunday, March 24th at 8 Eastern on CBC and CBC Gem.

Saturday. We took a cruise this morning and I was drinking twisted teas. We cruised and laughed till around 2.30, 3pm that afternoon. We then went back home and we got in bed and had sex for the second time. I passed out. Around 5.30 p.m., my son woke me up and he asked where Ashley was.

I said she must be here. She was before I passed out. I got up and looked for her, but she was gone. I was hungover and didn't know what to think. I drank a couple twisted teas and tinkered around my lawn. Around 12.30, 1am that night, Ashley came walking back to the house from the road on the north side of the garage. I asked her where she was and she said something like, over there, and pointed towards the way she came from. I never did question her because

she had been kinda secretive the last few days. She came inside for a while and for some reason she jumped out of my bathroom window. I noticed that she was higher than a kite. She sat on a picnic table and was looking around. I went out and sat with her for a while. I had never seen her act like she was acting. She would get up and walk around my yard and pant around. I went out and sat with her for a while. I'd never seen her act like she was acting. She would get up and walk around my yard and pant around.

This behavior went on till 6, 7 a.m. She was sitting in and out of my vehicles, walking around the yard, talking to herself, pointing. By this time, I was scared for her, meaning I didn't know what she was on. I asked if she wanted to take a cruise and she did. By this time, she was coming off whatever she was on and was talking half normal. We came home around 8.30, 9am. I then made the decision that she should go home. I told her she should regroup. I offered to work on her truck so

she would want to go. She agreed. We left my house with our destination being Badger Creek, to her house and her truck. We took 89 to Browning. About one third of the way up on our ride, she said, Sam, I don't want to go home. Then she was texting. A couple minutes later, she said she had a ride coming. And right before the top of Divide, she told me to pull over because V-Dog was going to pick her up. So I pulled over on the top of Divide and she asked if there was a cabin on the Divide Mountain. I told her yes and pointed to the cabin. She then asked if she could get a closer look. So we drove towards it and I showed her. We then turned around and parked where we were before. Ashley then asked me how to get up

there and I told her around the backside of the mountains. I then laid my seat back and went to sleep almost instantly. We had only a little sleep since we met. I woke up and Ashley wasn't in the car and her bag was gone. I didn't know how long I slept or dozed off. I woke up with the fear that she might have walked to the cabin on the mountain because of the questions she was asking me. So I started honking my horn and I drove to where we went earlier to look at the cabin closer. So I started honking my horn, and I drove to where we went earlier to look at the cabin closer. I got out and yelled her name loud. I must have did this for 45 minutes to an hour.

Then I decided she'd gotten a ride with V-Dog. I got back to the house around 12 noon or so. Mike Lemire and his girlfriend were there, so I asked them to drive me back up and look one more time. We honked and yelled her name. I climbed a giant rock and yelled for her. Mike caught up to me and they were fighting and drunk and wanted to go, so we left the town. I had even prayed she got in a ride safely. I heard she was on Facebook and for a little I was relieved that she did get a ride.

I heard she was seen in front of the town pump with Paul Valenzuela. This told me for sure she had gotten a ride and I quit worrying about her. I tried to text her on Facebook. No return. I don't know. But I heard she was missing and I called her mom Loxie Lynn on a number that was posted. I told her she got a ride with V-Dog. A week into the missing searches, I got a call from a guy I knew,

and he said that a Chris Valenzuela wanted to talk about Ashley. I told him it was time. Chris then called me. Meanwhile, I had my son Doug set his phone up for recording and we recorded the conversations. It went like this. Chris. Hello, Sam? Me. Yes? Chris.

I just gotta tell you I'm an honest man and I have a conscience. Me. Okay? Chris. My brother, Paul Valenzuela and Tashina Running Crane killed Ashley. And Paul and Tashina and their crew are going to frame you. I've recorded all of this. The BIA and the FBI have it.

I brought the recording right to them. At this time, the BIA and Feds told me not to talk to the tribal police. Because four of them are on Paul Valenzuela's payroll. September 20th, 2018. I woke up with Ashley on my mind. My heart goes out to her family, especially Kimberly Loring. She is fighting so hard to find her sister.

I wish I could help her. The BIA threatened me with prison if I do any more investigating. I'm helpless. Jesus, please end this. Ashley, I wish you were here now. You're the only one who wanted a family with me. You made me so happy and I know we would have been happy with our bull rider. I'm so empty, Ashley. Why is all this happening? Why aren't you here with us? I'm praying hard. Please, Jesus, bring her back to us. I love you. Please, Lord, bring her. Please.

To this day, I truly believe T did something to Ashley. And Ashley didn't deserve any of this. I believe if Ashley was around, that she would still be in my close life. Whether a good friend, or my wife, or a girlfriend. She would be in my life. T did something to Ashley. Two new names have emerged. Paul Valenzuela, V-Dog,

and Tashina Running Crane, T. I won't call them persons of interest, but they're people that I'm interested in. Paul is a complete ghost. There's multiple Facebook accounts with his name, all with no profile pictures. None of his phone numbers work, no address for the guy, so this will have to be continued.

T, on the other hand, I was able to find pretty easily, on Facebook at least. So I sent out the dreaded cold open message, saying, Hey T, my name is Payne Lindsey, and I'm an investigative journalist. Do you have five minutes to chat briefly about Ashley? Your help would be tremendous. To my surprise, I got a response almost immediately. She said simply, No. She said simply, no. Ah, yep, she blocked me. Well, so much for that.

But not so fast. I had flew into Whitefish, Montana a few days later for a series of interviews. We were in the middle of recording some other phone calls at our Airbnb when I noticed that I was no longer blocked on Facebook by T. Well, why's that? Now's my chance. Hail Mary. Oh shit. She unblocked me?

Hello? Hey. Hello? Hey, T, it's Payne. Who is this? This is Payne. Can you hear me? What do you want? I just wanted to chat.

What do you want to chat about? I'm doing a story on Ashley, and I was just trying to figure out what happened to her and interviewing different people, and I wanted to chat. What do you want to chat about? I'm doing a story on Ashley, and I was just trying to figure out what happened to her and interviewing different people, and I wanted to... Get off the first one. Why don't you go talk to Kim and ask her what I fucking told you? Why don't you go talk to Sam and ask him what he did to her that night when he choked her? Go ask them.

Bye. Lindsay and Donald Albright. Original score by Makeup and Vanity Set. Our theme song is Ophelia by Ezra Rose. Sound design, mixing, and mastering by Cooper Skinner. Additional production by Cooper Skinner, Eric Quintana, and myself, Mike Rooney. Our cover art is by Trevor Eiler. Special thanks to Grace Royer and Oren Rosenbaum at UTA. Ryan Nord, Jesse Nord, and Matthew Papa at The Nord Group. Station 16, Beck Media and

Marketing, as well as Chris Cochran and the team at Cadence 13. Visit us on social media at Up and Vantage, or you can visit us at upandvantage.com, where you can join in on our discussion board. If you're enjoying Up and Vantage, tell a friend, family member, or co-worker about it, and don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening.