Up and Vanished - The Final Chapter Begins

Episode Date: May 3, 2022

It's been a few years since UAV covered Tara Grinstead's case, but Payne and the team are back for Ryan Duke's trial. This moment has been highly anticipated since the case broke in 2017, and after years of delays, we may finally get the answers to some of our burning questions. In this episode, the team recaps what has happened since 2017, and sets the stage for trial to begin on May 2, 2022. Join us for the final chapter. For ad-free listening and for Payne’s exclusive Friday recap episode, subscribe to Tenderfoot+ on Apple Podcasts or visit www.tenderfootplus.com for more details. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone else close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. you God. Tara was 30 years old when she vanished back on October 22nd of 2005 from her home in the town of Osceola. Two days later, she didn't show up for work on Monday, October 24, 2005. Now, her car was found in her driveway, but her keys and purse were gone. The Osceola Police Department responded to her residence. Immediately, they suspected foul play. It's now been two weeks since a former beauty queen disappeared in Georgia.

30-year-old high school teacher Tara Grinstead was last seen at a dinner party with friends. A grimness fueled by the frustration of searching nearly 400 square miles of alligator-infested waters. Tara's home was searched extensively for several days, which produced little physical evidence. As with all missing person cases, the investigation started focusing on Tara's close friends and associates.

Through these 11 plus years, the GBI and other law enforcement officers have received hundreds and hundreds of tips. Each and every tip that came in was vetted and checked against what we had already done in this investigation. Each lead was thoroughly exhausted. Each lead was thoroughly exhausted. Usually a tip that's 12 years since the crime is going to be someone that either recently heard a piece of information about who was involved, or they've known all along and just never shared the information because of their relationship maybe with the person of interest. For over a decade, law enforcement was grasping at straws,

trying to figure out who was responsible for the disappearance of Tara Grinstead. She was last seen on October 22, 2005. But on February 23, 2017, 12 years later, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation held an emergency press conference. And we begin tonight with breaking news. Investigators announcing the beginning of the end of a 12-year murder mystery. Yeah, this all surrounds the disappearance of Georgia beauty queen and teacher Tara Grinstead. At long last, a break in the baffling disappearance of

a beauty queen in the case. Ryan Duke, a former student of Tara's, was arrested for her murder. But ultimately, this posed more questions than answers. Who is the suspect, Ryan Duke? Everyone seemed shocked when that name was released yesterday. I can say that this gentleman never came up on our radar through the investigation. He's charged with burglary, aggravated assault, murder, and concealing a death. Now, I heard the judge read a warrant just moments ago. She said he used his hands to cause this death, as she read

from that warrant. The GBI said little about motive or evidence recovered indicating suspect Duke was a student at Irwin County High School where Grinstead taught and graduated three years prior to her disappearance. Investigators say Ryan Duke strangled Grinstead in October 2005 while burglarizing her home. They say he then asked Bo Dukes to help move her body. Shortly after Ryan Dukes' arrest, a new name emerged, Bo Dukes, an old friend and former classmate of Ryan's.

Rumors around town began circulating that Ryan Dukes did not act alone and that Bo Dukes helped conceal the murder by burning Grinstead's body on his family's pecan orchard. Today we learned authorities have arrested Bo Dukes on charges of hindering the apprehension of a criminal and tampering with evidence. His arrest warrant states that in October of 2005, Dukes concealed Grinstead's death at a farm in Fitzgerald

and that he helped to destroy Grinstead's body. Bo Dukes, charged with concealing the death of another, hindering apprehension or punishment of a criminal, and making a false statement to GBI agents about his involvement. Good evening. This is a chilling confession. He confessed on tape he helped burn Tara Grinstead's body, that Ryan Duke used a credit card to get into Grinstead's front door, jumped on her while she was in bed, strangled her to death. Grinstead's body that Ryan Duke used a credit card to get into Grinstead's front door, jumped on her while she was in bed, strangled her to death. The defendant telling investigators Ryan Duke took him to the orchard, showed him Grinstead's nude body face up.

Bo Dukes was charged with covering up Grinstead's murder. And during his trial, he had some big crocodile tears for the judge. I failed Tara Grinstead. I failed her family. And during his trial, he had some big crocodile tears for the judge. I failed Tara Grinstead. I failed her family. I failed the local community. Bo Dukes was just found guilty of burning Tara Grinstead's body. This brings one chapter to a close in a cold case murder that captured national attention.

But as for Tara Grinstead's murder, nearly everything about it made no sense at all. Conflicting stories, a confusing motive, and rumors that there may have been others involved in her killing. Their main piece of evidence was Ryan Duke's confession. involved in her killing. Their main piece of evidence was Ryan Duke's confession. Dukes told investigators he went to her house to steal money for drugs and alcohol and didn't know she was there. When she came up behind him, he hit her in the face and ran, later returning with gloves and a quilt to move Grinstead. But then news surfaced that Ryan Duke was under the influence of morphine during his confession. The defense insists that Duke was under the influence of drugs when he made that statement,

and that was actually a false confession. They point to his buddy Bo Dukes as the real killer. Shadel says there is no physical evidence that Bo Dukes was ever in Grinstead's home, and Ryan originally corroborated Bo's narrative, both leading investigators to the same place on the pecan farm where Shadel says they later found pieces of bones. The town of Osceola was on fire with rumors, as the podcast continued to cover the story. Earlier this month, someone posted an 11-page document to the discussion page for Up and Vanish.

That's the website and podcast dedicated to the Tara Grinstead case. The documents appeared to describe Ryan Duke's confession to GBI agents in February of 2017. Duke's lawyers are representing him at no cost and asking the state to pay for a private investigator and an expert in the field of false confessions to help them. Duke's lawyers also say there is little forensic evidence linking Duke to Grinstead. The momentum in this case came to an abrupt halt. During a brief recess, the state court released a decision to halt Duke's trial until they can hear arguments over the defense's appeal for the state to pay for expert witnesses or investigators.

over the defense's appeal for the state to pay for expert witnesses or investigators. Just because he's got pro bono lawyers doesn't mean that he's not entitled to funds for expert witnesses. The state has experts and we're entitled to those as well. The trial is expected to begin in early May after being delayed at least twice. Five years ago this month marked a turning point in a mystery that drew national attention. A confession, a discovery, and two arrests. Throughout season one of the podcast, I talked to countless people associated with this case, including Bo Duke's girlfriend, Brooke Sheridan. Bo had been at home asleep.

They'd had to get together at their house. And the next morning, Ryan comes to Bo and wakes him up and says, I killed Joe Grinstead. I said, you need to come clean about all of this. I said, you can't put this on my conscience. And that family deserves to know. It seemed like the whole town of Osceola believed that Bo Dukes played a much larger role in Grinstead's actual murder. From what I know of Ron, I can't believe that he did all this and orchestrated it himself.

Bo and Ryan were together that night. They basically drove by her house and Bo dropped Ryan off. GBI are claiming that it was one punch to the temple and that from there they took her body out to the pecan orchard. I can tell you there's nobody down here that believes a single word of the official story. I mean, I know people who's close personal friends with the Hudson's and the Duke's, and they're like, I think Bo did it. I mean, how do you pull off the perfect crime but leave gloves? That latex glove in the yard.

It seems like a plant, don't it? It sounds like a plant, which wouldn't be hard to do. Ron, my best Marcy. Bo's cunning, my best Z. I spoke to Ryan Duke's mom, Karen. I asked him one simple question. I asked him, did you kill her?

And he said, no, ma'am, I did not. I don't believe my son did it. I just don't believe it. And I hope that some way, somehow, the truth will come out for everybody. It's only about one thing now, justice for Tara. She deserves that. She's at peace. But we all have got to have closure.

Now, 17 years after Tara Grintz had vanished, the trial for her murder is about to begin. Think of the last time you bought something to wear. Something to decorate your house. Something for your family or friends. What if each time you bought something to wear, something to decorate your house, something for your family or friends. What if each time you made a purchase, you got a little something back? With Rakuten, you can.

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That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N dot C-A. So Maurice, it's been a while. A long time. Take me back to 10 plus years ago when you were heavily involved in the case and you were brought in to help assist because law enforcement couldn't figure it out either? Well, what I was doing was trying to find a place to start new. Whatever direction I turned, I ended up, nothing would come of it.

What did that feel like? Frustration, total frustration. I didn't know what to do. Really, because I was at that juncture, I was ready for something. And that something came, I attended for the TV. You were looking for a case, a case to work. So what you did, you were scanning the Internet trying to find a case. you were scanning the internet trying to find a case,

and you came upon Tara's case by looking on Web Sleuths. You saw about Tara Grinstead being missing for all those years. And so you posted something on Web Sleuths. I did. And I saw it. It hadn't been posted but two days, and I rarely ever went to Well Sleuths. And nobody had replied to you at all. No.

In fact, I didn't reply to you neither. I just got you information from Well Sleuths. I called, and I think I left a message you did yep and said that if you want to talk about Tara Grinstead case for you to contact me and that's what you did

you called me my gut instinct when I first checked my voicemail I actually thought you were a cop or something. I think you said that you were an investigator in the case, and if you want to talk about it, give me a call. And I was like, oh, shit, what have I gotten myself into? I shouldn't be poking around in this. I'm in trouble.

That was my first reaction. But I called you anyways, and I quickly learned that you weren't a cop at all. You were a private investigator hired by Tara's family and this was basically one of the cases that you had never been able to solve. And clearly you still kept tabs

on it, right? Yeah. How did you find my post? I just happened to go by that day on the way. I would look at it. It turned out to be luck that I went by there and found your number. I think it was meant to be. During the first half of season one of the podcast,

the first 12 episodes or so before the arrest, you and I had a very interesting relationship. We were both working on it day and night. I was calling you after hours, vice versa. And I'll even say that it may have got heated at times between us, right? We were both really so passionate about solving it. Oh, yeah. Can you remember what that was like, you know, back in those days, in that period of time

before the arrest and when we were, you know, losing sleep over this thing? Yeah, we were passionate about it. Some things that I wanted to put in the podcast, you were against putting it in there, and I wanted to know why. We had some disagreements about sharing information and stuff. What's strange about this to me is that when I first met you, one of the theories that you posed to me, and this is actually one of the ones that I decided to not put in the podcast, early on at least, mostly because there was not enough concrete evidence to back it up.

It was just more of a rumor and a thought that could make sense. But you had mentioned to me But you had mentioned to me that, you had mentioned to me the possibility of a former student being involved in Tara's murder. Yeah. And I remember having this photo and it was a bunch of former students of Tara's in the back of this truck bed. And sure enough, who's in that photo is Bo Dukes.

And I remember back then when I first started the podcast, I was scared to go down that road because there were too many other persons of interest that the media had labeled over the years with a lot more information on them. And for me to go out there on a limb and pose a theory that Tara had some relationship with the former student, I felt that that looked disrespectful and that could be misinterpreted, even though that's not really what my angle was. I just felt like that was a sensitive subject and I needed to approach that properly. And then sure enough, six months into the podcast, huge break in the case, and they arrest Ryan Duke and Bo Dukes, who were both former students. So what are your thoughts on how that

ended up developing? I wasn't surprised at all to learn that they were former students. I was surprised that both of them were not charged, that Bo was never linked to the house. Let's get into that for a second. So Ryan Duke was charged with Tara's murder, and then Bo Dukes was charged with concealing her body and, you know, destroying evidence. And really ever since Ryan Duke's arrest in 2017, February, throughout the town of Osceola,

rumors abound about the idea that Bo Dukes was more involved. That's right. And that just never really left. And so one of the main pieces of evidence that the state has against Ryan Duke is his confession. That's against Ryan Duke is his confession. That's right. Is his confession. And we learned later that he was under the influence of morphine during his confession,

and now his defense attorney is saying that this was a false confession. So what do you make of all of it? Well, I think that's the reason he pled not guilty. He's going to try to get that. I know she's tried to probably in pre-hearings and stuff to get that thrown out, but it's probably not worked to get his confession thrown out, but they're probably not going to let her do that. The biggest hurdle that he has is the DNA. On the glove? On the glove.

The second big hurdle is that Tara's DNA is on the glove too. Okay, going back to the glove. I mean, obviously that does not look good for Ryan. But Ryan admits to taking Tara's body out of the house and concealing the evidence with Bo. And so, wouldn't

the glove be there in that action and not the action of the murder? Or at least potentially? The only thing is, I don't believe that he decided to rob her so he can get some money for drugs. Well, if he was robbing her, wouldn't he have actually stolen something? Because nothing was missing, right?

Nothing was missing. I don't believe that he, but that's what he's claiming. So why on earth was Ryan there, in your opinion? Do you think that Ryan is the killer or the sole killer? No, I think Bo is involved. His criminal behavior that he has demonstrated points to the fact that he is more violent than Ryan, and that he's likely involved in this a whole lot more than he's been charged with. I think a lot of people have a hard time accepting the idea that someone would confess to something that they didn't actually do.

And I'll be honest, that even confuses me sometimes. But I know that it has happened. I've seen documentaries where that's happened. I get it. But I think that that's going to be a big hurdle. Why do you think someone like Ryan Duke would confess to a murder that he didn't do? Well, here's the problem with it all. It was preplanned.

You think so? Yeah, because they used gloves. But still, why would you confess to something you didn't do? That's a hard thing to grasp, I think. I agree with you, but sometimes it happens. So the trial starts very soon. The second.

Mm-hmm. Looking back to when you got involved in this, is it kind of bizarre to see it finally happening? Yes, yes. It's really weird to think that somebody's going to go to trial for this crime. I mean, did you ever, was there a point where you thought that that might never happen? Oh, yeah.

I didn't think it would ever happen. What do you anticipate happening? How do you think this ends? Is Ryan found guilty? I think he's found guilty. I think the DNA nails him. What will a verdict in this case mean to you and the community and the family, you think? For me, it would be a half victory for me because I just know that Bo had more to do with it than he's ever been charged with.

Do you think it's possible that we may learn of that during the trial? I don't think nobody's going to slip up and say that. I don't think so. So you think it's possible that we may never really fully know the truth? That's right. Bo is the leader. He's the leader. Ryan is the follower.

Bo is the aggressor. And he was involved in that case a lot more than he has ever been told. Do you have any sort of closing thoughts that you'd want to tell me or tell the audience before this before this trial starts? Well I did the best I could in the 12 years I worked the case. I made some mistakes but I did the best I could with what I had to work with. And to this date, I never regretted going the podcast way. I never regret that. It had a feel to the fire and helped me get some resolution to the case.

So yes, I think that's the one thing that I can say that I think I did the right thing in this case on. Well, Maurice, thank you for your time. I know that we're both anxious to see how this all shakes down and whether Ryan will be found guilty or not guilty. And if we learn anything else throughout this trial that paints a clearer picture of what really happened to Tara that night. I hope so. I hope so too.

Hi, I'm Meredith, part of the Tenderfoot Up and Vanish team. The last time we did episodes on Tara Grinstead's case, it was spring 2019 when we covered Bo Dukes' trial. You might remember that a lot went down with Bo Dukes at the beginning of 2019, starting from day one. That New Year's Day, January 1st, Bo kidnapped and sexually assaulted two women, holding them captive in his home until they escaped.

This was not the first instance of sexual assault associated with Bo Dukes. Then there was a manhunt, and Bo went into hiding for four days, until police finally found and arrested him. Three months later, Bo's trial started and resulted in a 25-year prison sentence. He was found guilty on charges of hindering the apprehension or punishment of a criminal, concealing a death, and two counts of making false statements. This case is very different in how high profile it is because people care a lot about all the facts of the case.

And they're very much invested in the characters. It's almost like it was a novel that they sort of got, you know, this character development and stuff. Back in 2019, we talked to attorney Ashley Merchan, who's representing Ryan Duke. I was a public defender. When John worked at the law firm, he always did a lot of pro bono work.

We've always both thought that that is part of our profession, that you should take on pro bono work. And so we pretty much have at least one pro bono case going on at all times. And it was just the timing. I had wrapped up one that I'd felt very passionate about, just wrapped it up. And so, you know, the timing just felt, just felt right. And it just felt like something that we needed to do at that point. I think that anytime you're going to take a case

pro bono, you need to be morally invested in the case, if that makes sense. You need to believe in it. And so we definitely felt strong about, about that and about the case and about the facts of the case. We asked her about Beau's case right before it started. And though she can't legally talk about her plan for representing Ryan during trial, she did give us a little insight into the motion she's been filing and how she felt Beau's trial would affect Ryan's. I did not expect Beau actually to go to trial. I figured he would resolve his case with a plea, resolve his case somehow, some type of a deal to testify,

to offer evidence against Ryan. So I'm a little bit surprised about that. Most of the time when you go to trial, it's for one of two reasons. You go because you're innocent, or you go because the offer is what you would get if you lost a trial. And then it's just like gambling. You know, why would you not roll the dice? In general, for criminal defense, we're going to trial because one, our client is innocent,

or two, there's no risk in going to trial because they're offering the same thing that we would get if we lost a trial. We wanted to know if Ashley thought it was a strategic move to have Beau's trial before Ryan's. Oh, I think it's a strategic move. I just don't know what the strategy is. I mean, I can guess, but I think, I mean, there has to be some strategy to it, you know, because it just, boom, all of a sudden popped up on a trial calendar, you know, and it's being, I don't want to say rushed,

because that makes it sound like it's purposeful, but it seems like it's being hurried to be heard prior to Ryan's. And I think it definitely affects the jury pool. I think it affects, I think that it's strategic. I mean, I can give you what I think is happening. I think that it's strategic because, and I've said this before on this podcast, whoever talks first usually gets the deal. And so the police, the public, jurors, when they hear a version of the truth or a version of a story, first, you're going to be working hard to disprove that,

because they tend to believe the first thing that you hear. We asked Ashley about her plan for Ryan's case, though there's obviously a lot she can't talk about before the trial date. I can't argue outside of court, well, we filed this motion and I think it should be granted. I can't talk about that, but motions that we filed this motion and I think it should be granted. I can't talk about that. But motions that are in the public record are in the public record. I can tell you that a lot of what we've done is try to level the playing field. I can't really talk about Ryan's confession, unfortunately.

That's going to be something that will be heavily litigated in court. I can tell you the alibi is based on our investigation of the case and what we think will come out at trial when people testify under oath. I think that this case, jury selection, is going to take much longer than it does in an average case, where in an average homicide case like this, I would say jury selection would take a day, maybe two. But in an average case, you would get probably 48 jurors summoned. And here we have 600 I believe so you know that's very different um just a lot more to get through a lot more people to get through we're gonna have

a lot more folks that are not able to serve on the jury because of prior knowledge so um it's just gonna take longer you know it's just gonna take longer so the state gets to go first and so they get to put all their witnesses up but as as their witnesses come up, we get to cross-examine them. And then it becomes our turn, and so if there's any witnesses we're presenting, we put those witnesses up at that point. And we don't know until the state puts theirs up who we have to put up, you know, because a lot of people we join, we have them on both of our witness lists. We share them. So the state may call them, and then we just cross-examine them, and so we don't have to call them in our case in chief. So the state's always going to take a lot more.

I mean, oftentimes the defense doesn't even take a day, you know, because we don't have a duty to put up any evidence. So we could not take any time at all. So the state, though, I think would take two to three weeks. We also asked Ashley about working on a case that is so high profile in the media. Does that change her approach? Are there any drawbacks, benefits? There's definitely a lot more profile in the media. Does that change her approach? Are there any drawbacks, benefits? There's definitely a lot more interest in this case. I've had a number of cases that were high profile, but I think the difference is a lot of those cases, there's not so many, I guess, unknowns. So people haven't really looked so closely at all the facts of the case.

And so people know a lot more about this case than they do any other case, which is really interesting to me because I get kind of jaded by being in the industry and by doing this for a living. And so sometimes I lose perspective because I look at everything through what can you prove. And we get desensitized a lot of times to a jury because juries want to know what happened. What I find interesting is being able to see what the public wants to know about. You know, what are their questions?

When we try cases, we don't get to find out what the jury wants to know. And I wish I could. I mean, I wish when I got done cross-examining a witness, I could say to the jury, you know, do you all have any other questions? You know, I wish in opening I could say, what else, you know, what do you want to know from me? I wish we did that. So I can kind of glimpse in the public's mind by looking at the discussions and things that are going on, seeing, well, where are the questions, you know? What is it that people are really getting hung up on?

Because I'm jaded to a certain extent because when I look at a case, I look at it as what can the government prove? And so I look at it as, you know, filling up a cup with evidence and have they filled the cup all the way? And I look at it very analytically. And oftentimes I look at a case and I'm like, there's just no evidence. Like I can't imagine a jury would convict him. And I have to remind myself, juries convict innocent people all the time. And so it's helpful

to understand in a case that's high profile like this, it's helpful to understand what the general public wants to know. You know, it's one thing to read a cold record and read a cold report and read a, you know, a piece of paper. It's a different thing to see what happens and see how they actually do, um, and, and what they look like. And it's just one of those things that's a different thing to see what happens and see how they actually do and what they look like. And it's just one of those things that's like reading a transcript versus listening to a podcast about a case. It's just totally different when you hear it and see it than it is when you read it. Hi, Nina. Hi. How's it going? It's going well. I'm going to Ocilla. This is Nina Instead.

If you recognize her voice, that's because she's the host of the podcast Already Gone. She's going to be heading down to Ocilla to help cover this case. Nina will be on the scene in the courtroom throughout Ryan's trial, so you'll be hearing her voice a lot in the upcoming trial episodes. I am a podcast host and a missing persons advocate, and I've been working with the Missing in Michigan organization for about four years. That's amazing.

That's amazing. On the line of missing persons cases, when did you first hear about Tara Grinstead's? In 2016, just like everybody else. I started listening to Up and Vanished, and that's how I learned about her case. I was approached to cover the trial in Osceola by Payne, and I thought it would be an interesting new challenge,

so I'll be heading out to spend some time in Osceola and sit in on the court proceedings. So have you ever been to Osceola before? I have not. I'm new to Georgia, so this is new to me. How do you feel about going to Osceola? What do you feel like you have to expect? You know, it's a small town, and I think the trial is going to be very interesting, not just because it's a trial, but in how it will impact the community. People in the community know everyone involved in the proceedings, so it's going to be very interesting to observe.

Well, I've read up on everything I could regarding the case. I re-listened to season one to get myself caught up. And I've been following the court proceedings. I know they're waiting on some DNA evidence to see if that can be allowed. So just keeping an eye on things until I arrive. Court proceedings are interesting because you can have these great moments of interest, but there's a lot of patience required in between those interesting moments. It's not like a law and order episode. You have to be patient. There's a lot of procedural stuff you have to sit through to get to the good stuff. That's a really good way to put it. Do you have

any expectations for what will happen? What's your outlook right now? So I was actually surprised that he didn't try and get a plea. But I think that, you know, being tried by people in his community, people that know him, it is like we sat a small area and people know each other. I think he's going to roll the dice and take it to trial. You know, it's always been, well, he did it. No, he did it. I hope that we can get some clarity on what really happened that night and find out who really is responsible, even if they were both involved. Right. Yeah, exactly. So when do you head out to Ocilla? What's the plan?

So I'm leaving on Sunday afternoon so that I can be there bright and early Monday morning for the trial. afternoon so that I can be there bright and early Monday morning for the trial. I'm going to sit in on jury selection because I think that'll be very interesting to see who they want judging him. You know, I think that in and of itself could be very interesting. And then I'll be curious to see who gets called, if they're going to call Beau to testify against him or for him. That could go either way. So I think there's a lot of little things to watch, starting with how they assemble the jury and then who they call and what his defense is. I'm sure he's going to try and blame Beau,

but I don't think Beau wants to take on any more responsibility than he already has. So have you sat in on a court proceeding before? My dad was a criminal defense attorney for many years, and I sat in on several of his cases when I was younger. So I've always been interested in it. You know, my dad always said that everyone is entitled to a good defense, that that's good for both the community and the defendant. And I think that's especially true in this case. Well, I'm excited for you to go to

OSILA and to be on the front lines of this and be the one who hears it all first. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. I think it's going to be interesting and I'm excited to share it with listeners. This is it. The final chapter of Up and Vanish Season 1. Check in with us every week until the end of trial for ongoing coverage.

There will be new trial coverage episodes every Tuesday and Thursday. If you join Tenderfoot Plus, you can also get exclusive Friday recap episodes hosted by Payne. To join Tenderfoot Plus, go to Apple Podcasts or tenderfootplus.com. Up and Vanished is produced by Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta. Created and hosted by Payne Lindsey. Executive producer, Donald Albright. Produced by Thrasher Banks and Meredith Stedman. Edited by Thrasher Banks.

Additional hosting by Nina Instead and Meredith Stedman. Music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Sound design and mix by Cooper Skinner. Original artwork by Trevor Eiler. We'd like to give a special thank you to Court TV. Check out the discussion board

at upandvanish.com. If you have any questions, leave us a voicemail at 770-545-6411. Thanks for listening. you