Up and Vanished - The Midnight Sun: Emergency Broadcast

Episode Date: May 10, 2025

We were supposed to release the final episode today. Joseph’s case. Florence’s case. It was all ready—until everything changed. In the last 24 hours, Oregon Jon—Florence’s last known contact—called us. After over a year of silence, he talked. For two hours. This episode is not the finale. It’s a real-time dispatch from the middle of the storm. A raw, behind-the-scenes look at what just happened, how it’s changed everything, and what comes next. New episode next Monday. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to a Tenderfoot TV podcast. How can you get even more of everything you love about Porter with the new BMO VI Porter MasterCard? Enjoy more freedom, more flexibility, more rewards, more of all the things you love. Need I say more? Get your ticket to more with the new BMO VI Porter MasterCard and get up to $2,400 in value in your first 13 months.

Terms and conditions apply. Visit bmo.com slash VI Porter to learn more. Hey, it's Payne. I wanna thank everyone for being a listener of this show. And I know a lot of you have been here since the very beginning. For a very long time, we've had no merch or anything for you to show off that this might be your favorite podcast, if it is.

But now we do. If you go to shop.tinderfoot.tv, we have some brand new Up and Vanish podcast t-shirts that you can wear wherever you are in the world and show your support. Right now, we're offering 20% off of every order. Just go to shop.tinderfoot.tv and then use the promo code PAIN20, that's P-A-Y-N-E-2-0, at checkout and get 20% off your entire order. Again, that's shop.tinderfoot.tv, code PAIN20, for 20% off. Thank you again for supporting this show. We love you guys. Add free listening and exclusive bonuses. Subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus.com

or on Apple podcasts. Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is intended for mature audiences and may include topics that can be upsetting such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, rape, and murder. The names of survivors have been changed for anonymity purposes. Testimony shared by guests of the show is their own, and does not reflect the views of Tenderfoot TV or Odyssey.

Thank you so much for listening. This was not part of the plan. Come on, Mikey. Let's go. Oh, hey. What do you think? That was not part of the plan. Okay, come on Mikey. Let's go. Oh hey. What do you think man, like after talking to him for the first time, have you changed your mind about him?

I don't know man, a part of me during that call, it felt like I was getting close to a confession. Do da da da da da da da da da. Do da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da. Do-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-d From Tinderfoot TV in Atlanta, I'm your host Payne Lindsay, and this is Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun. Yeah, and I was in the middle of editing, I was like, who's calling? I was like, oh my god, it's John. I have to answer. Bam. So talk about derailing the original plans today. Yeah, talk about good timing. Good timing and also bad timing for a podcast listener.

What's crazy is that this reminds me so much of February 2017. I was going on episode 12 of Up and Vanished Season One, Tara Grinstead. And because I was I mean, I was new to podcasting at the time, I was making the episodes week to week. I didn't know what the hell I was I mean I was new to podcasting at the time I was making the episodes week to week I didn't know what the hell was doing and for the first time ever I pat myself on my own back because I got an episode done early and I was like yes And so that Friday morning I go to the office I get there super early crack my fingers like alright I'm gonna start digging into the next part of

this season. I'm ahead for the first time. And as soon as I open Adobe Audition, I get a phone call that there's a press conference coming and that episode goes bye bye. And now we're on a whole new track. The irony of that happening here today is, it's annoying, it's serendipitous, but also it's kind of literally what we've been trying to generate here is, like we can't control what people do, we can't make people talk, we can't make people confess,

we can't arrest anybody, but if we push the right buttons and present things in the right way, we can't arrest anybody, but if we push the right buttons and present things in the right way, we can hopefully create a scenario where something goes pop and today that happened. And now it's like, okay, what do we do? Because we have, we're sitting on an entire podcast session that was essentially going to be part one of the rest of our Joseph Balderas investigation. And so much of this weaves into Florence's case. And now we have Oregon John back on the line.

And so we just talked to him for two hours. It's frustrating because this is a real true crime podcast. These are real people. I deal with the real families. I talk to the sisters and the moms of these victims I talked to the real suspects and persons of interest and locals in the community But at the end of the day also tenor foot TV, we're a podcast business. We're a media company We make shows right and so we have

Obligations and deadlines and so I call this emergency Zoom with you guys because I'm sitting here thinking, okay, what's the right thing to do here? I know in my gut what the right thing to do is. We gotta hit pause and we got to sift through this information that we just got and deliver it in the way to honor the victims of this story and to actually make a difference.

At the same time, I don't want to, I don't want our own listeners to think that we're just putting things off and giving them some fluff to make an extra buck or like that we're bluffing for the sake of it, interrupting everyone's Friday and saying, hey, don't publish that episode yet, we can't. Dylan, take a Zoom call while you're driving.

Mike, cancel your wife's dinner plans. Actually, don't do that, Mike. She'll kill me. But seriously, that's where we're at. And so my first thought was, okay, I want to preserve the integrity of this show. I want to preserve the integrity of the lives of Joseph Balderas and Florence Okpialuk, and also the time and energy

we've spent into trying to solve these cases and all the people that we've worked with along the way in the community, and even some law enforcement. We didn't come this far to rush something out when we have brand new information that changes absolutely everything. My goal is the same as it was on day one, which is fucking solve these cases. We don't get to that point by rushing things out.

And so I'm calling this emergency zoom meeting to get your two cents because this is not what anyone else on the business side of our operation wants to hear. If anything, let's just start recording what we're dealing with right now. And I think the true diehard listeners will understand and hey, we always come through. Let's just kind of unpack where we're at and what the best game plan is. Because we're trying to get this information out as soon as possible. When something new and bigger comes in that changes the narrative and is what you've been looking for for two years, you've got to

adapt on the fly. What do you all think? 100%. I mean, we have, it's, it's kind of unbelievable how much stuff we have just, just from this week alone From the last two hours Yeah, yeah Especially that but I mean even including last week the week before that everything we've been doing a lot of it's just kind of All coming to an end. Yeah I mean

I feel like I should say this because I know that a portion of this if not this entire zoom, is going to become part of an episode today or the episode, which is not what somebody was expecting. So I wanna qualify a few things. I think one of the biggest mysteries about True Crime Podcast, and I'm speaking solely for Up and Vanished here and how we operate,

is that there are things that we are doing behind the scenes that we don't tell you because we can't, right? But I'll go ahead and pull one cat out of the bag for you right now just to give you an example. We had Joseph's truck months ago back in October. It made no sense to go to the internet or to the RSS feed or drop on Apple or Spotify, I Heart, some episode that says, hey, we got Joseph's truck. No, no, no. We don't want to put that out there and give room for people to intercept that, interrupt our plans. So we sometimes have to work in silence a little bit. And obviously his truck's been out there for a long time. We had high hopes. We didn't know what we would find.

But based on our initial assessment, it seemed like the statistics and the odds of us finding anything substantial were pretty low. But after hours of digging around, we did find some things in that truck that may ultimately be of value. The second part of that entire mission for me was to show those who are responsible for Joseph's disappearance that we are actively looking at this.

It, on one end, yes, it's a show, it's a podcast, it's for you to listen to and follow along and maybe even help us solve or at least show your support or maybe get you through your workout routine. I don't know. But on the other end, this show is just as much tactical as it is, I hate even using the word, entertaining. Part of the entire Truck Forensics episode was to show those who may be guilty of something that we also have some cards up our sleeves.

And we're not gonna unveil those to you right now. We will eventually. And it's not like we're trying to hold out on the listener, but damn, did that not work beautifully? Because ever since we've dropped that episode, what's happened in Joseph's case, probably the most feedback and the most new information we've ever received, to the point where the entire outline we had structured with with information and tips that

we were holding on to and vetting to make sure that they were 100% 100% solid, those are almost becoming secondary. And so we're sitting here today going, okay, we literally have a full episode, 45 minutes, in an Adobe Audition session on your computer mic and mine. But I don't feel right in my heart putting this out when we know what we know within the past 24 hours. Just give me y'all's take on that dilemma and I don't

know potential paths forward to do this the right way. Yeah it's it's really tough because it's it's hard to explain it without giving anything away you know it's but we had to pivot like this how it is now and how it was gonna come out today just unfortunately cannot happen. No, it can't and you know it's not that my number one concern is making sure the listeners aren't like oh my god they're just bluffing. That is not my concern but at the same time what I what I am concerned about is that I do want the people who genuinely care about these cases to know and believe and to trust me and us

with what we're saying. And so I kind of made a little hit list of stuff I want to touch on that that we can safely do right now without Blowing anything in the next 24 hours for us to show that there's that there's there's stuff going on And it's not some bullshit stuff that is done and was going going to come out today. Anyways, yes Let me pull up that little Google Doc. I I feel like I've made 35 Google Docs today. I don't know about you guys. I think I'm a little more than that, yeah. I mean, so I'm just going to go down the hit list here because a lot of this stuff was about to come out tonight and it's still coming out in the episode, but it's now going to

be paired with new information that is more urgent that fills in gaps that need to be filled in and i'm not in the business of i'm not in the business of parsing this out if i was i would drop some republished episode this is harder to do right now dylan's driving to his wait wait, where are you driving to Dylan? Somewhere more important than, where are you driving to? One of my sister's graduation. Technically I'm on vacation today,

but this is so important. Your sister's graduation can wait Dylan. I'm just kidding. But exactly, like this is not what anyone was planning on doing, but let me just go down some of these things and let's just talk about them briefly. So this was even new to you guys because there's

I've received so many calls for both Florence's case and Joseph's case. I usually am pretty good about immediately uploading them to the shared Dropbox we have and trying to label them to make sure that it makes sense. But on occasion, I'll be on the road or be in some place with weird service and it'll just be a voice memo on my phone and it kind of gets lost in the sauce and then a month later I'm recataloging and I'm like, oh yeah, this one. And so some of these, like I know Mike, you hadn't even heard yet.

And it's crazy because when I heard it the first time, I knew that it was important, but coupled with everything else I've heard since then, when I listened to it again, when we were building what was supposed to be today's episode, it hit different. So I spoke to this woman who called me anonymously. I confirmed her identity.

She's from Nome. I know who her mother is. She, this is her account. Joseph's truck was seen. She swears to God it was Joseph in the truck. It was the blue Dodge Dakota. It was out by mile 44. It was on the Saturday afternoon when Joseph was last seen that we know of but there was someone else

inside that vehicle and it was a male and I asked her point blank. Did you recognize this person? Who is it? She's not guessing. She is convinced. She saw this Saturday the day that Joseph went missing and the person in the other seat was no other than Jake, Joseph's roommate. Now this is her account. I don't have a video of this. I'm taking her word for it. But she is 100% confident that Joseph wasn't alone out there that Saturday in his truck, but that there was another male in the vehicle. One that she claims with 100% certainty is Jake, his roommate. That, if true, is not good at all,

because one, it goes against Jake's entire alibi and his story. It also doesn't mean that Jake did anything, but it also makes you wonder why he lied about this, among all the other lies he had. So that's a big one. But it gets me back to the truck, right? We learn all this stuff after we do

the forensic examination to the truck, right? We learn all this stuff after we do the forensic examination of the truck and we're sitting on a box of hairs, fingernail clippings, what could be samples of blood, gum wrappers, items and little pieces that may contain trace DNA. Now, if there's an individual who claims that they were never in Joseph's truck. Discover the magic of Bet MGM Casino, where the excitement is always on deck.

Pull up a seat and check out a wide variety of table games with a live dealer. From roulette to blackjack, watch as a dealer hosts your table game and live chat with them throughout your experience to feel like you are actually at the casino. The excitement doesn't stop there, with over 3,000 games to choose from, including fan favorites like Cash Eruption, UFC Gold Blitz, and more. Make deposits instantly to jump in on the fun and make same-day withdrawals if you win. Download the BetMGM Ontario app today. You

don't want to miss out. Visit betmgm.com for terms and conditions. 19 plus to wager, Ontario only. Please gamble responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor, free of charge. Bet MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. I'm here for Bet Rivers Online Casino and Sportsbook with poker icon Phil Hellmuth. Thanks to Bet Rivers, I'm also a slots icon. Great.

And a same game parlay icon. Cool, cool. A blackjack icon, a money line icon, a roulette icon. If you love games, Bet Rivers is the place to play and bet. Bet Rivers. Everyone has that friend who seems kind of perfect. For Patti, that friend was Desiree. Until one day… I texted her and she was not getting the text. So I went to Instagram and she has no Instagram anymore. And Facebook, no Facebook anymore.

Desiree was gone. And there was one person who knew the answer. I am a spiritual person, a magical person, a witch. A gorgeous Brazilian influencer called Cat Torres, but who was hiding a secret. From Wandery, based on my smash hit podcast from Brazil, comes a new series, Don't Cross Cat, about a search that led me to a mystery in a Texas suburb. I'm calling to check on the two missing Brazilian girls. Maybe get some undercover crew there.

The family are freaking out. They are lost. I'm Chico Felitti. You can listen to Don't Cross Cat on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. And you have a witness claiming they see someone in this truck. We now, because we were smart about it and didn't tell the whole world what we were doing and have the evidence being tested, could potentially rule that in or out. You know what I'm saying guys?

A hundred percent, yeah. I mean, and like you said, a lot of these I have not heard before You just sent me some of this stuff today a lot of this stuff, but yeah, no this is potentially just insane I mean how how many people are out there that saw something and have listened to this podcast, but aren't saying something I think that's the bigger thing. There's a lot of people who have it could be small information They have it and they're just now coming forward. They're going to come forward soon. Who knows? And this is something that Mike, you and I have both learned. Me from season one, you starting from season two, a lot of times when the podcast is coming out, it does tend to affect the locals' perception of the case, right?

Yeah, the hornet's nest is kicked at that point. It is. And there's a, it's a double-edged sword. There's a good side and there's a bad side of that. The good side is that, hey, what was once complete silence is now a loud roar, now everyone's talking. Problem is that sometimes, and only sometimes, but it does happen, sometimes people who contact us claiming to be a witness of something

become influenced by what they heard on the podcast. And it's our job to kind of decipher whether or not the account that they're recalling is in any way influenced by what they may have already heard. And so, for example, the story of this lady who saw Joseph's truck the day he went missing with Joseph inside the vehicle and another man she claims

to be Jake. This story is true. It's unadultered. It's because the story was told years before the podcast ever came out. It wasn't until the podcast actually was out that somebody realized that it didn't make sense for Jake to be there at all. Because they didn't know that at the time. Because we were playing eight year old police tape, Andy's interview tapes. These things had never, this audio had never seen the light of day.

And so for a long time, no one knew who was supposed to be where or what. You could see Joe Schmo here and it mean nothing to you unless you knew that that person said once upon a time to the police officer who was investigating this case that I wasn't there. Then you go, holy shit, but I saw them there. And so in a lot of ways, that's what's happening right now, but we still have to be on high alert with how we are digesting the new information that's coming in and coming in really fast.

The other thing that we've talked about in season four, obviously, you can't mention Joseph Balderas and not mention the last name Pascoya, right? And that's only to say because they knew each other. They hung out a lot. And Jake was Joseph's roommate. Christine Pascoya was who he was allegedly last with on the beach that Saturday morning with the kids Kim was also out at the bar that night

So no matter how you slice this the Pascoya family no assertion of innocence or guilt here They're tied into this they were friends. They were family friends. He would go to outings with them I do find it a little odd that after all these years and how highly they spoke of Joseph, that instead of participating and helping find him, they're just radio silent. And so one of the names that came up a lot and wasn't talked about to the deepest

degree which we're planning on talking about in the episode that was supposed to come out today I'm sorry it's coming out but I'm gonna let you know it I'm gonna give you some insights on it now. Kevin Pascoya right this is Christine Pascoya's uncle. We've heard a lot of strange stories about this guy. I don't know which ones are true or which ones are not. Which ones are false. Or which ones are false. What I do know is that I've heard enough stories from different people that are credible.

Ones that match the other stories. That there is some truth to some of them. Now, Kevin Pascoya sadly has passed away and his name became central in Joseph's disappearance for a multitude of reasons, starting as early as the search they were conducting when Joseph's family was there. There were several stories of Kevin Pascoya on his ATV seemingly driving roughly through the terrain in a way that made family and friends feel like he was trying to throw off tracks.

Now this is just somebody's observation. But regardless, we're talking about an ex-cop. Maybe that wasn't his intent. But damn, do it a little softer. And Selena, Joseph's sister, she's no police expert, but she's a smart person. She thought that's weird. Why is he doing it like that? Right?

Then you got the whole weird rifle thing. Why does, why does a rifle go missing that, that Jake had and came from Kevin and or did it and why is there any mystery surrounding this at all? And so his name has come up but we haven't put too much focus on him because hey that's that's all we know. What we did figure out is that he passed away a few years ago which which is really sad, which is really sad. But Mike, and Mike, you can vouch for this. I feel like at this point, all these years into this true crime game, we've gotten pretty good at finding stuff like death records and anything of that sort. What have you been able to find on his death? For sure. Yeah, we have experience doing that. No doubt about it. But

Nome is, I feel like, a different kind of town. It's a really small town. Things are done differently. I mean, even the newspapers are different. The mail is delivered differently. There's a lot of just different things about this town I don't think people understand, but it is a little weird with the lack of information you can pull up. And honestly with the lack of transparency from some of the departments related to the city So I know that you spent months on this because I kept asking you. What'd you find? What'd you find? What did you find as the cause of death for what Pascoya? I was not able to find anything personally is that

Normal to you based on all the years and dozens of cases we've worked on? No, you might not get the exact cause, but you usually at least get some kind of idea. So no, I don't think that is normal in that sense. Well in a small town like Nome, assuming that an autopsy was performed, somebody somewhere should have some knowledge of this. And so the troubling part and it's frustrating, you know, it puts us back to square one in this sort of speculative guessing game, which is never a good place to be. We don't know his cause of death.

It could be something very natural. And I say this with all due respect to the, to the Pascoya family. But, and I say, but here, and it's a big one. I have heard from numerous people, numerous and I'm and I'm talking since 2023 here. Since we first started poking around in both of these cases I have heard over and over again an identical story about how he may have passed. Now I'm going to loosely gloss over it here because there is still information that we're sorting through that adds more nuance to this, but the story that I've heard is that he was found in his own truck miles and miles outside of town.

Miles and miles outside of town. Allegedly he had told someone he was going to the airport. He went the opposite direction. What I do know for a fact is that for a couple of days they were searching for him. So for a minute there, Kevin Pascoya was missing. Ultimately, they did find Kevin and his vehicle. He was inside of it. From what I know know from what I've heard because there are no official reports on this which I find very weird but the consensus by three to five sources that I trust by at least five sources that I really trust is that his truck was found somewhere along

mile 38 down Council Road. Not too far from where Joseph's truck was found on mile 44. Maybe that's a coincidence. Maybe he wanted to take a drive and that's just where he ended up. I don't know. Where things get darker are all the other details

that everyone I've spoken to, who I've trusted and I've vetted, have told me. And it involves pills, it involves a bottle of liquor, a bottle of liquor. And it involves some sort of handwritten note of sorts. Now, we can sit here and speculate all day what that might mean.

But I talked to someone who has firsthand knowledge of this, and I'm not going to play their call right now because I need to do this in the correct order. But there, regardless of what happened to Kevin and rest in peace, there are conflicting narratives. piece, there are conflicting narratives. Because I've also spoken to someone from the Pascoya family, who I will not name yet, but you will, you will know their name when this drops. And they have a completely different story. I didn't find their story to be any more convincing. The troubling part here is that I don't wanna open up any more old wounds for anybody.

I don't want to, any death in the family, no matter who they were, what they did, that's awful. And that is something you have to deal with for the rest of your life and heal from. But at the same time, Joseph Balderas and his family, they don't even know where he is. They have no clue what happened. There isn't some debate as to whether or not it was a suicide or an accidental death or a heart attack or some sort of accident, he just disappeared.

And when it's being suggested in very serious ways that there may be a legitimate link to what happened here to Joseph's disappearance, I cannot ignore it. And so that's one of the things we're grappling with that you will hear more of. And that's just one of those strange dilemmas. Dylan? Yeah, it's tough.

You don't want to speak ill of the dead. Nobody does. But if he is involved, that's an avenue we have to investigate. Because if it turns out this is all connected and we don't do it just for that reason that we don't want to poke that hornet's nest, we're going to regret it. We're going to leave a lot of loose ends that need to be tied up. And it's, there are just a lot of weird things about it, a lot of coincidences that beg for it to be investigated. I think it's, there are just a lot of weird things about it, a lot of coincidences that, that beg for it to be investigated.

I think it's important that we look into it. We have to poke in uncomfortable places in order to get the answers that we need. And that, that kind of brings me to part one as to why there's not the official finale episode dropping right now today. One of the reasons is that a member of that family, there is a story that is validated by multiple sources that changes everything. And it's one thing to, you can't look at anyone. It's like, if you get arrested,

one of the first things that they're supposed to say is you have the right to remain silent, right? Because you know good and well, they're gonna use whatever the hell you say against you. That's just the way it works. So hiring an attorney or staying silent, that does not mean guilt. Let's establish that right off the rip here. That's just the way it is.

And so we are approaching it from that perspective and I respect that. Now, what I do find troubling is that the way the Pascoya family, and I mean everyone in that family, the way that they described their loving relationship with Joseph from all the tape and all the interviews that the private investigators conducted nearly a decade ago now does not match the way that they are behaving now. Now I'll play devil's advocate in their favor. Maybe they're like oh man that thing I said doesn't make me look good so I'd rather just not say anymore so I don't look worse. Okay I could understand that. What I don't understand is that you

were so convincing that you cared about this person and when I've made multiple polite valiant respectful attempts to talk to every one of these individuals and it's been met combatively. What am I supposed to think about that? I didn't make anything up about you guys. This is just some shit you said one time. I wasn't even around. I was working on another case. I didn't even know about this case

that concerns me. Now back to part one as to why we're not getting a full episode finale today. Tonight is that there is a major story that I believe to be true, that is very vetted, that has to do with a member of a particular family moving Joseph's vehicle. And again, this was a story told years ago, been in this other family's circle for a long time. But it didn't mean that much to them because they didn't know the ins and outs of this.

We got to remember here. All this tape, all this audio from the private investigators, the police, these interviews from 2024 and 2025 of the people involved in these cases and the locals. This is the first time a lot of people in Nome are ever hearing this and some of them are saying, holy shit, that doesn't make sense with what I saw. Now what I saw that I thought I had a gut, weird gut feeling about actually has some much larger implications. And so that is still being, I wouldn't say that, that is still being investigated in the sense of, they vet that is still being investigated in the sense of we want this to be even more rock solid, but you're going to hear from the exact person, persons, and they're telling the truth and someone else is lying and you'll get to hear that. We had an episode pretty much ready to go. So the

initial plan today, before we're on this Zoom call right now that you're hearing on your podcast feed, we were going to do a part one finale strictly focusing on Joseph Balderas first because there's at least an hour of material that needs to be heard. Now in the background for the past two weeks, I've been working my ass off on trying to do what I thought was impossible. And honestly, I'm, I was telling Dylan, Mike, before you hopped on, how much I still don't believe this was pulled off. Let's go back to Florence Okpialak's case for a second. We know that there are some sketchy individuals that she was around on West Beach that night.

We know that that is where the story ends one way or the other. The facts are this. Her shoes, her phone, among other items were found outside of Oregon John's tent. John Gertin is his name. I know you remember his name because I catfished him and he met me in Ketchikan at a bar and we talked for several hours and you heard what he had to say. Now that wasn't my desired way to approach him but I had a gut feeling that any other way wasn't gonna work. But since then, I have made contact with John again. And I told him straight up, I'm sorry that I tricked ya, but based on the situation,

I didn't think you'd talk to me. And he basically agrees. A lot of that is water under the bridge. Now, John and I have spoken for a little bit, and he's expressed to me that he wants to get his side of the story out there. I said, done. I'll give you the mic.

Let's do this. This is not a witch hunt. I'm not trying to frame anybody. I'm basing it off the facts. The facts are, from what I know, Oregon John was the last person to see Florence. The stories he tells me about that night don't make sense. There are contradictions.

These are facts. These are facts. Now, it doesn't mean he did anything, but it means that he's one of the most valuable players in trying to figure out what happened to her. Am I right? That was 100% right. Yeah, I mean, how much are we releasing on this call?

I don't want to say too much. So okay, I think it's safe to say this. I was debating, but this just happened. This is actually part two of why you're getting this episode today. This is actually the real biggest reason. For the last several weeks, I've been trying to make contact with John again. You may remember from the finale episode before we took a long break that I did make contact with John and he expressed gratitude and told me that he was having a rough time in

Ketchikan and I said, hey man, I want to help you clear the air and he said, all I want to do is tell you the truth and I said, that's all I want to hear too and at that point he gave me his real cell phone number and my plan was to set a time and date and have that conversation man-to-man no Facebook trickery no catfishing just get down to it it's all good just tell me your version of events problem was I I tried to reach out to him boop boop boop numbers not working okay well let me try one of the other ones boop boop boop nothing this number that number that number okay now we got a problem. So I got desperate. I just I started calling other places. I called

the local jail. They actually said that they fingerprinted him about a month ago on another charge that he's been released on. But he's not been there. the Holma shelter not there called pretty much any place I could think of and I don't know where he is I called his former parole officer no clue where he's at and so I'm now dealing with somebody who expressed in what I thought was a genuine way that they wanted to tell their true side of the story and clear their name, and now they're a ghost. I don't like when people do that,

if you don't know that already. And it just so happened to hit me at the time where I must've been in the right mood or something, but I just literally sat out of my bed at 11.30 p.m. and said, fuck this, I'm going to find John. And I'm like, wow, deja vu. Wasn't there an episode called Finding John in the first part of this season?

Well, Finding John part two, which you will hear, is a lot more insane than the first one. But the end result is a lot better. And so without going into too much detail, I had to pull out a lot of resources. And I will give credit to some listeners out in Ketchikan, some listeners of Up and Vanished, who had sent an email a year prior

that I ended up referring to and in a long story short helped us locate Oregon John. John and I talked for over two hours. I think I saw the realest side of of John Gertin that I've ever seen and I want to believe that he's being sincere and genuine when he says that he wants to clear his name and they wants to help Florence's family get closure. Now I'm not done talking to him. I literally had to tell him about 30 minutes ago, I gotta go and call you back because we gotta do this Zoom call.

But he is willing to talk. And I am very willing to listen. I do not have a dog in the fight. All I know is that if anyone holds the key knowingly or not to what happened to Florence Okpialik or where she might be able to help. And so two things are going on. There's a two hour conversation that you're going to hear. I'm also gonna call him again. This is not the episode you were expecting today, but I'm sitting here honestly with so many mixed feelings

that I don't even know which one comes to mind first other than stressed out. But this story isn't over. Just because you call something a finale episode doesn't mean that we're not going to solve it. So I want to just thank you for your patience. Our plan is to regroup the rest of tonight and tomorrow on Saturday, finish what we had started and give you the part one of the Midnight Sun finale that we were initially planning to give you that primarily focuses on Joseph's disappearance. And in the meantime, I'm continuing my conversations with John, and I'm hoping that as soon as Monday, part two, the finale of Florence Okpialik's story

in our current investigation, airs. And shortly thereafter, we have a date, if not that same night, where we go live. No gimmicks, no BS, no editing, just straight and raw. Me, Payne Lindsay, John Gertin, what happened? So that's what's coming down the line. And it's not coming in weeks, it's coming in days. And as much as I regret to inform you that it's not coming today, a part of me is ecstatic that after all these years, all this work,

all the support from the locals and Nome, just the families staying strong, believing, and even the persons of interest, lending their voice at all and not being a coward. This is how we get to the truth. And I'm telling you, we've never been this close in these cases. So bear with us, we will keep you posted. And yeah, anything you guys want to add? I got to say I was on the call.

I mean, Dylan and I were on that call with you and John and the difference between him talking to you like you were a stranger looking for a job opportunity versus how he talked to you on that call was just night and day. It felt, he felt more candid. You know, I think it's just inherently how we talk to strangers versus somebody who, he knows what you do now. He knows who you are.

And I think it made a huge difference. There was some emotion in there and it's hard to decipher entirely, which is why I wanted to be a face to face thing in the end. And you know, my, my, my bullshit radar is always on high alert, but, but I believe that some of the emotion he showed today in the call was real. Some of it I questioned, but I'm not done talking to him. And I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt for now

because he's participating. This is not a witch hunt. I just want the truth. And I don't know who could help me out more in finding out what happened to Florence Okpialik than the person who last saw her in his tent who has her things and has no good explanation for it. Yeah, he was a different guy this time than the first time we met. I mean, you could tell he just really seemed like he wanted to help.

Whether or not that's true or he's, you know, just avoiding something is yet to be told. But I think it's really important that he has this time and this space to tell his side of the story. And I think, you know, just from hearing the conversation, I think a lot of times, especially in podcasts, there's this idea that the people of interest are guilty until proven innocent. Right. And I think you did a really good job of staying neutral,

giving him time to say his truth without leading him or without making him feel guilty, but also still asking him tough questions. No, I agree. I mean, that's how I feel. This is John. Hello? Hi, is this Payne? Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your host is Payne Lindsay.

The show is written by Payne Lindsay with additional assistance from Mike Rooney. Executive producers are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay. Lead producer is Mike Rooney, along with producers Dylan Harrington and Cooper Skinner. Editing by Mike Rooney and Cooper Skinner with additional editing by Dylan Harrington. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan.

Additional production by Victoria McKenzie, Alice Konick Glenn, and Eric Quintana. Artwork by Rob Sheridan. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Mix and mastered by Cooper Skinner. Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing, and the Nord Group. Special thanks to all of the families

and community members that spoke to the team. Additional information and resources can be found in our show notes. For more podcasts like Up and Vanished, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app, or visit us at tenderfoot.tv. Thanks for listening.