Up and Vanished - The Truth According To Jon

Episode Date: May 16, 2025

Oregon Jon in his own words, raw and unfiltered. This Sunday, May 18th at 8PM Eastern, we’re going live on Instagram @upandvanished for Jon’s real-time polygraph test with a professional examiner. Tune in on IG @upandvanished. No edits. No escape. Just the truth—or something close to it. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to a Tenderfoot TV podcast. FanDuel Casino's exclusive live dealer studio has your chance at the number one feeling, winning, which beats even the 27th best feeling, saying I do. Who wants his last parachute? I do. Enjoy the number one feeling, winning in an exciting live dealer studio, exclusively on FanDuel Casino, where winning is undefeated. 19 plus and physically located in Ontario. Gambling problem? Call

1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca. Please play responsible. From the team that brought you up and vanished comes an all new podcast that brings you a weekly dose of true crime cases. She's in an unknown area. Do you know if she's here now or was she released? They said she was released. I'm Payne Lindsay.

And I'm Maggie Freeling. This is Up and Vanished Weekly. Join me as I talk through cases with special guests and true crime experts. There's got to be something at the heart of that evidence that they've got. It's got to be DNA. Yeah. Tune in as Payne Lindsay lays out the crime in true Up and Vanished style. A late night knock at the door, a missing car, and a mysterious shadowy figure caught on camera.

We cannot see that person's face ever. Luckiest person in the world. What new evidence will it take to solve one of Florida's most high profile missing persons cases? Up and Vanish Weekly is available now. Listen for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. bonuses and early access starting next week, subscribe to Tinderfootplus at Tinderfootplus.com or on Apple podcasts. Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is intended for mature audiences and may include topics

that can be upsetting, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, rape, and murder. The names of survivors have been changed for anonymity purposes. Testimony shared by guests of the show is their own, and does not reflect the views of Tenderfoot TV or Odyssey. Thank you so much for listening. Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do Recently, I've spent hours on the phone with John Gertin. And what you're about to hear is what he says is the truth. The man at the center of Florence Ocpialak's disappearance. No more waiting, you're going to get to hear him right now.

Unfiltered, his own words, this isn't an interview, it's a real phone call. A long long winding conversation between me and John. And what he tells me, it's strange, it's messy, and it might change everything. This is the truth, according to John. I didn't have a lot of choice because I had nowhere to go when things started going downhill here. lot of choice because I had nowhere to go when things start going downhill here. Um, cause I don't prior to just coming here, um, Christmas two years ago, I mean, literally four months before coming here, um, my mother passed away Christmas evening. Uh, two weeks later, my brother passed from fentanyl overdose.

Oh man. And I lost my father three weeks later to a stroke. So I really didn't have anywhere to go. And so when I came up here and I lost my job with the state, which was the fault of the rumors going around, there were gentlemen on the boats that were going around telling me, calling me serial killer. And I yelled at them and I was removed of duty for violating a voicing policy because I yelled at them.

There's, you know, and now are you the same guy I met? Yeah, yes. You're, I'm the guy you met in the bar remember Yes, yes. Yes, you know a lot of that. I think I didn't explain correctly like the part about The diver and the girl that I never confirmed that that was just something somebody told what do you mean? Which part? the part something somebody told me. What do you mean? Which part? The part where the girl who cheated the rescue diver and said there was a barrel under the house that was working there.

That was just something somebody told me. I never verified any of that. And so I was just relaying what I was told. You know, and I tell anybody to listen to me, my story and like, you know, it was pretty easy to get me to talk about it because I want everybody to know, you know, and I'm the FBI, they were there for three and a half weeks and did a full investigation and they even cleared me and, you know, cleared with and they said no foul play even.

So I don't know. I kind of stayed out of it, you know, and it got pretty bad around here. I got hit by a car. I threatened multiple times. I've been assaulted and it got pretty bad and the police here, I read stuff from fake profiles on Facebook. So what are people saying? They've actually changed it now. Apparently, I got robbed by a girl. I'm from McDonald's and she assaulted me and I pressed charges. And so she had her friend go online and now there's two women I

supposedly Yeah, and they just made it up and the police here conducted an investigation because they were receiving complaints because somebody posted the podcast on Tetchikan community cycle, which is a community Facebook thing Okay, um, and I had the only reason I even found out about it was cuz fellow employees on the ferry my chief steward called me and So friends of mine to work They said hey, and I I listened about 10, 15 minutes of it.

And I kind of started listening to it anymore. And now apparently I'm a child molester too, and a rapist. I'm less children now too. Um, and then at one point, I, cause Tetchcan has completely taken this and just, they actually forged Tetchikan murder warrant documents and registered sex offending paperwork and sent it to my wife in the Philippines. I had to take her into the DA's office and tell her that it's all fake and that I am not wanted for any crimes. Wait, so who forged these documents? Because that's a crime in itself, isn't it?

Yes, but Catch a Can doesn't have the means to find out because they used a fake profile. And I went in with the fake, and you can tell it's fake, because when you open up the profile, there's no dates. The profiles only existed for a month, and there's no photo. You know, obvious. And, and see, they never came to me when they received the complaints because people were calling them and complaining to them that I'm here and they want to know what they're doing about it. So when I went in with the actual,

I mean literally received death threats. Ah, and they said, well, we, we conducted our own investigation a couple of weeks ago and law enforcement doesn't even know who you are up there or, or anything about the case because we have, okay, no PD was paid even tried to talk to him. They refused to talk to me. Right. Um, they impounded a car that I had rented for my, and I told them not to go fishing. But,

any one of my friends, they were going in their homes and certain search warrant, I tried to talk to them, you know, to help. So finally the FBI came in with a group of about five investigators out of Anchorage. And they were there approximately, I believe about three weeks. I slowly cooperated. They were the only ones that ever interviewed me or come talk to me.

You know, and I told them everything I did. And the only thing, they kept asking me about a black truck because I don't know if you know the location, the beach where I was at, it's about a quarter mile away from the paved road. And up on that paved road is the port and there's a camera that overlooks the port. Yeah. Okay. They said that a picture of a black truck

was a female profile getting into it about the time when I said, you know, she left. Okay. And that's all I know because they just were asking me, do you know anybody in a black truck? No. Now, about a year earlier, somebody loaned me a blue pickup that said Tanya on the back with two and a half foot letters. So, I mean, highly identifiable.

And that was the one cab company I was working at, and I've got a four-wheeler. And that's what I used for transportation, a four-wheeler with no exhaust, and you could literally hear me coming and the FBI actually had me started up for them and they had to cover their ears and they brought in our dogs and everything and I gave them permission to go into my tent I had a huge cabin tent because people were allowed to just show up. I befriended quite a few female friends.

I used to teach women self-defense and empowerment horses, right? And teach them they don't have to be a victim. The fact is, me being forced to stay there and not be able to run away, me being forced to state or not be able to run away, I have to, uh, every friend that I talked to when I first meet him, I explained to him my situation and I want them to be fully informed that before, you know, you want to hang out with me, that there is going to be a rumor and people are going to come up to you and say, why are you hanging out with him? Do you know this, this and this? So, so what do you tell them? What do you tell them that that situation is?

I tell them everything. Like, can you give me, can you tell me what, I'm just curious, like how? I said, I was in Nova Alaska. I gave a girl a ride and a safe place to stay and in the morning I never leave I tell him about her boyfriend. So I can tell him everything her voice and I don't Yeah, her boyfriend showed up the next day. That's the person I gave the shoes in the phone to What's he works with me? I don't know. I can't remember cuz kind of like tried blogging but he worked at the cab company he knew me and her sister was with him and she like he did something he goes no I know John John didn't do nothing so Florence was in your tent that's okay Florence was in your tent but here but let me finish but the next morning Florence is missing but you have her things. Why is that?

Why is that? Okay. Because her boyfriend told me he had took her to the hospital, admitted her for treatment, they put her on the drugs that don't let you a lot of drink. Well, she had went out and went drinking. That night she became extremely unstable psychologically. I was talking about hurting herself. There was about three camps right there where I was. And she wanted cigarettes so bad she went next door. Now there was a guy from Spain or something like that. He'd been there every year too. He knocked his tent down, got upset because he didn't smoke. I don't

smoke. She couldn't find a cigarette and I finally got her to calm down. How did you get her to calm down? I was just talking to her and tell her it's going to be okay. Right. You know, I said, you know, because she was talking about not wanting to live and everything like that. And I did not. It was stressful for me watching her go through this. You know, yeah, because my tent was huge.

It was 18 by 24. So and I had a cot in one corner. I had a wood stove in there to cook on. I had a solar panel and a 12 volt free trigger. I had to let it go big. I would set up pallets. Not pallet, but that's what we call it. Sleeping bags. I had two or three cuz friends were always welcome to

stop by as a matter of fact that night I was expecting two friends to stop by a boyfriend girlfriend very close friends because they'd like to come out and hang out we'd have a bonfire and you know um so everybody was always woke you know and just be respectful. Who are these friends? Who are these friends that you're talking about? She moved back to the island.

The island that's right out from the ocean. Segunda, I believe from, uh, I mean the guy. Oh, well, it was, I was mainly friends with her, but it was her boyfriend and they kind of broke up right after that. It was, I was mainly friends with her, but it was her boyfriend, and they kind of broke up right after that. So I'm trying to remember. They were in my old Facebook account, and when I broke my phone last month,

I lost the Facebook account, I had to start a new one. Can't really remember his name. Okay, so let's just go back to the basics here. Yeah. So Florence was in your tent and then When is the last time that you saw her? Okay, I saw her when she went to sleep Okay, okay now

daylight now you tell him the tenants daylight and I'm laying there half awake, half asleep. And I hear her get up. I hear her unzip the tent because it's an eight foot tall zipper. She unzips it and zips it down. And I figured she just went outside for a walk

or to go take a pee somewhere. You know, because that's, well, what they do out there is they go behind the hill. And so and about a half hour about just, okay, I actually looked at my phone to see what time it was. That was seven 30. I get up around eight 15, eight 20 and I'm looking around and she's not there. So I go outside and I walk and I look up and I look down the beach because it's about a

quarter of a mile walk to the road and it is a direct sight line and you can somebody is walking I really see their silhouette and I don't see her anywhere. So I'm like, huh, that's weird But it's not that weird out there because people have been drinking and everything sometimes they just Leave leave where though? Why could you not see her? Oh no, it's a 15-20 minute walk to the road and from the road it's another 10 minute walk to downtown. Back to when you're in the tent and she's asleep, did you actually see her with your

own eyes leave? No. I heard her use the zipper. How do you know it was her how do you know it was her? Because she was the only one there with me, but you looked at your phone. Why didn't you do? Why didn't you look up to see her? Because when I looked at my phone She'd already zipped it down and was outside and I just looked at it and I go man. It's still early I'm gonna lay here a while Right because I wasn't facing the door without a space in the wall because I sleep on my side

I was too lazy to roll Look because I I knew who it was Okay, so either way you you realize at some point it looks like Florence left and she zipped the tent back up, right? Yeah, did she leave anything behind or or what? Yeah. Yeah, um later on that day. I didn't even realize it then but i'm uh folding the bedding over that I made for her and underneath it was her phone and her shoes. I'm like, oh, well, she'll be back for these as soon as she realizes it. So when did you realize that? Like not in the morning?

What? No, I didn't find him right away. When? So when did you find them that that next day? Well, okay, it was later on that afternoon. I was taking stuff off. You weren't curious to see what she left behind if she just dipped out on you? No, because I didn't know she left anything behind. Right. To me, I put my shoes on and I put my phone in my pocket and then I leave.

But why didn't she do that? That's so weird. But because she was under the drugs the hospital gave her that you're not supposed to drink on so clearly I don't think psychologically and see I kind of have my own theory that a lot of people aren't talking about. Let's hear it. Um, it's, I really don't want to think this happened, but up there, especially in Alaska with the addiction issues, there is a possibility and I, I've been, you know, possible.

Um, cause the night earlier she was talking about wanting to live and I am afraid that is a possibility. What do you mean? Um, I Think she walked out in the ocean So if you walked out in the ocean because I've been out there on West Beach You're not just I don't know I mean I'm afraid that it is but I don't I pray it's not but then the other Alternatives is something else and what's the other what's the other alternative? Well? somebody got her and who There's two options and who could who could that have been? I don't know Um, And like I

said, Well, it had to be someone close to your tent on the beach. So give me your best guess or, you know, help me. The guy next to me, he goes to church and he's a nice guy. You go to church? Yeah. But and then the other there was a pallet house built right next to his tent. That was a pallet. And it was a pallet house built right next to his tent. That was a pallet and it was a guy and a woman, you know, and I did not know them very well.

But I talked to the Latino guy a lot, you know, cause he was gold mining stuff too. And we got along and, you know, we were kind of doing the same thing you know and I I don't want to think that because you know well right now we have to think everything because yeah the bottom line is two options you know correct that or the other you know and and because they kept asking me about a black truck, but it wasn't conclusive because as much as they could tell me, it was a female figure.

There was nothing that they could tell me that it was even. Discover the magic of Bet MGM Casino, where the excitement is always on deck. Pull up a seat and check out a wide variety of table games with a live dealer. From roulette to blackjack, watch as a dealer hosts your table game and live chat with them throughout your experience to feel like you are actually at the casino.

The excitement doesn't stop there, with over 3,000 games to choose from, including fan favorites like Cash Eruption, UFC Gold Blitz, and more. Make deposits instantly to jump in on the fun, and make same-day withdrawals if you win. Download the BetMGM Ontario app today. You don't want to miss out. Visit betmgm.com for terms and conditions. 19 plus to wager, Ontario only.

Please gamble responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor, free of charge. Bet MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. There are very few things that you can be certain of in life. But you can always be sure the sun will rise each morning. You can bet your bottom dollar that you'll always need air to breathe and water to drink. And of course, you can rest assured that with Public Mobile's 5G subscription phone plans, you'll pay the same thing every month.

With all of the mysteries that life has to offer, a few certainties can really go a long way. Subscribe today for the peace of mind you've been searching for. Public Mobile. Different is calling. What's better than a well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue? A well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue that was carefully selected by an Instacart shopper and delivered to your door. A well-marbled ribeye you ordered without even leaving the kiddie pool. Whatever groceries your summer calls for, Instacart has you covered.

Download the Instacart app and enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions, and terms apply. Instacart, groceries that over-deliver. That night, obviously you said that she was drinking. What kind of drugs and drinks did you guys take that night? I took no drugs and I took no drinking. Oh wait, no, I was smoking some dabs.

Marijuana, that was my thing. Now occasionally and after that, I relapsed a little bit on methamphetamines because of depression. Around what time? Around what time period? About three to four weeks after the flu incident because of my depression. Why were you so depressed? Because people were saying that I did something and I didn't. Why do you think they were saying that I did something and I didn't.

And- Why do you think they were saying that? Because technically I was the last person anyone knows that saw her. Well then who do you think saw her after you? I have no idea. Don't you think that if you could figure that part out, then you'll be cleared forever? But here's the thing,

you wanna hear something really weird? And this is what I thought about later after Danny girl called me in Oregon. What is it? Paul was coming out and visiting me. Cause I went in and I went in town once, twice and purchased some metencies from him. And then he was making trips out there to check on me and he would bring me out

and he was asking me questions and he would give me a little bit and I would talk to him cause I was depressed. And then I'm like, I barely know this guy. And I didn't socialize with him. I've only met him and purchased from him twice. And why is he coming out to visit me? I thought he was just trying to be a friend. Well, then Danny girl tells me this stuff.

And I'm like, cause he was asking me questions. He'd get me he'd get me high. Like what kind of questions like what? What do you remember about that? I was slow with anything else. Is anybody saying anything? You know, why would he ask? Why would he ask that? I don't know but then after I make it to Oregon, Danny Girl tells me that he was best friends with the diver guy she had the theory about and she the reason she come up with the barrel theory is because she was working on the diver guy's house reconstruction underneath it, restacking the piers, because that's what she did was construction work. And she showed up one day,

and the way she explained it was right after Flo's disappearance, and he would no longer allow her under the house to do any work and stop the job completely. And she goes, I think that you know, he did something and put her on she's very good at. Well, we clearly like we've heard that. I mean, almost too many times and you've even said you think it's a rumor. And secondly, I don't care about the drugs, man. I don't give a shit. I'm honest. But I do I do have a question for you. I found the picture from the FBI of the truck

that you're talking about and I texted it to you. Can you look at it and tell me if you recognize it? Wow, this is interesting. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm not meaning to get excited. It's just, You know, it's been so long and Okay, um pain image cool cool cool no no cuz I am just as much as I really really really Wish it wasn't an outcome like that. Um, but still I want to know Okay, I don't know but like I said that? Okay, okay, okay. I don't know. But like I said, it has a weird rack on the back. You know, because I never saw the picture.

They never showed me a picture. It's a flatbed. Maybe they did. Yeah. And like I said, I described this and somebody told me it was a, wow. You described it to who? Well, two or three of my friends in town to see if they knew who he was. Because if I

could find out some information, I could get rid of the FBI because the FBI asked me, you know. Have you seen this picture before yet or no? It is a possibility that the FBI showed me because it is looking familiar now, the picture, not the truck, but the picture. And it would make sense that the FBI would have this and show it to me. So probably, yes, they showed me because I was at that point point I wanted to cooperate because One I wanted to clear my name and two I

really We really wanted Everybody to know the truth because you still want them to know the truth Yes, and because I know that I didn't but who did? Yes, and you know, but I'm asking you but who did I? I don't know because I had no involvement and that part doesn't matter if you were involved You're saying that you didn't do it, but you're hinting that you know who may have done it well, I was told by another friend that she was drinking with a guy in that truck and she described him to me as a young white male, mid to late

20s and I don't know him. Who is it? And I never, I don't know. Who told you that? What? I don't remember her name. Maybe I could have, maybe it would have changed the outcome of anything, you know, a butterfly effect. One small thing can change everything. If I had got up and walked outside and made sure she was okay, maybe whatever, whatever would have changed to, you know, let's take you to town.

Let's get you some cigarettes. Are you hungry? Where's home? Can I drop you off? Just anything that is nothing to me, no effort, just a small change could have had a drastic impact. So what do you think happened when she left the tent?

Because you have to have thought about this for years. If I were you, I would think a million possibilities. Where have you landed? Without any other purgative proof of anything, I can only think that she went in the ocean. Why would she do that? Because the night before she was talking about, after I got her to come in, she was talking about how her life was so horrible and that how she's such a burden on everybody and that she wishes you know that she wasn't around

anymore. And what'd you say to that? I told her I said look you know this is just how it looks to you right now at this moment you know life gets better. But her life didn't. No no it, it didn't. Because I was too lazy to care about her. I just assumed she was going to be okay. Are you still too lazy to care? No, because everything that I believe in, if I hadn't been too lazy and assumed she was gonna be alright, if I had just made sure of it, the possibility of things being different would be extremely great.

What do you think that they would be? How would they be different? Well, I could have taken her to get help. Why didn't you take her to get help that night? Because it was late. It wasn't that late when you picked her up from the nugget. No, no, no, but I didn't realize that she was in that type of condition until later on.

Well, you did though. You said that whenever you talked to her, she didn't seem right and she was not able to complete sentences. Yeah, and I figured just resting and hanging out would be fine. Do you see how somebody, not me, but somebody else could look like that as predatory behavior? Oh yeah. Yeah but... We're sitting here talking today all these years later because there's not enough evidence

to point somewhere definitively yet, right? But when I hear you say that after all these years, you feel like she walked into the ocean. Here's, here's my problem with that, John is that there is the least amount of evidence to support that. So let's just go ahead and check that off the list and start with the other possibilities the other possibilities even harder to think about because then I would have to realize that my inaction resulted in something that is just that would mean that something horrible happened to her.

I mean, granted that the other, you know, is something to yourself, that's not demeaning the horriblity of that. But... But that's what we're facing, John, because that's what our family is facing. Yeah, and I can't wait for you to think about that. You know, and I That's the that's what we're facing John because You know and I I swear to God I wished I could find out because She wasn't a bad person. She was just in a bad place and

She had done anything to deserve anything done to her. We get three hours of sunlight during the day between noon and like three or four. But at night, even though it's dark, there's so much freaking snow, everything's lit up from the snow. Laying under the midnight sun, man. I get on my wheeler and I'm going down the road,

heading out of, okay. The nugget, the last hotel on the left, going out of town towards my camp. Flo was standing out there on the corner, right about in front of that bar. I met her and at the last bar, she had the room to town on the same side of the street. And I pull up and I say, hey, what you doing? Nothing, uh, where busy?

Oh, she went home. All right, what are you doing? Nothing, she says, and I'm like, well, I got some friends coming out with a bottle, hit her. Just want to go hang out and do some dabs. We're going to cook some dinner and drink and have a fire. And she goes, yeah, that was, well, she just said yeah. And she hopped on.

You saw her by herself and you gave her an invitation. Yes, yes. Well, what was her demeanor like? It was inebriated, but she wasn't staggering, she wasn't, you know, but she wasn't overly conversative either. She just said, yeah. How did she seem to you? She was functional, but... What does functional mean? She could stand up so she could answer questions. Like, hey, you want to go do something?

Yeah. But she wasn't into giving prolonged answers or a conversation. Just, I would ask her, you know, hey, do you want to go hang out? I told her that those two were going to come over later and we're going to barbecue. I would ask her, you know, hey, do you want to go hang out? I told her that those two are gonna come over later and we're gonna barbecue. And I said, do you want to go? And she's just like, yeah. But she seemed pretty inebriated.

Yeah, but it was kind of weird. It wasn't like a regular drunk inebriation. And I thought that was kind of weird. Tell me, why was it that you thought it was a good idea to bring her to your tent if she was in that condition? Well, because nothing good happens in home after midnight. Hit pause on whatever you're listening to

and hit play on your next adventure. Stay three nights this summer at Best Western and get $50 off a future stay. Life's the trip. Make the most of it at Best Western. Visit bestwestern.com for complete terms and conditions. The Hot Honey McRisbee is so back at McDonald's. With juicy 100% Canadian-raised seasoned chicken, shredded lettuce, crispy jalapenos, and that completely craveable hot honey sauce, it's a sweet heat repeat you don't wanna miss.

Get your Hot Honey McCrispy today. Available for a limited time only at McDonald's. Miller Lite. The light beer brewed for people who love the taste of beer and the perfect pairing for your game time. When Miller Lite set out to brew a light beer, they had to choose great taste or 90 calories per can. They chose both because they knew the best part of beer is the beer. Your game time tastes like Miller Time.

Learn more at MillerLite.ca. Must be legal drinking age. More at MillerLight.ca. Must be legal drinking age. If I was involved with an accident or anything, I would have already come forward. I would admit to it and then, I would rather meet you face to face so you can look into my eye.

I would be willing to go back to knowing you. For her, it's not right And I don't know what to do I don't know how to help because this is where I'm at, you know this in my mind, you know, I And I know I Didn't do anything, but I'm the only one that can really help. It'll help. It's all memories or whatever, dude, but I don't care about me anymore. This has been going on my life for so long now. And I want, you know, um, you know, I mean, I'm not afraid of being

in trouble because I know what I did or didn't do. You know what I'm saying? You know, like I'm saying, what happened happened. What happened, happened. And after that, I don't know. Up to that point, after she shut that zipper, I have no idea because I wasn't there. I know I didn't do anything wrong to her. So, to be honest, I didn't do anything other than not caring enough to get up the next morning when she left to her armor, to be honest.

That's it. Like I said the night before, she was going through a thing and she went extremely erratic, started destroying other people's property. And like I said, I never touched her. I never tried to get her to do anything inappropriate. That was the furthest from my mind. At a certain point, I was actually kind of scared because she got violent at other people. And at that point, I tried to keep my distance and calm her down.

And when she got calmed down, and at that point I was so relieved, you know, but she wasn't like hurting people. She was knocking down their tents, screaming, and she was angry because she couldn't get a cigarette. I don't, I wasn't over there when she was doing what she was doing to the people. I was at my tent, and I went out there

and I got her to come back. I remember finally talking her down, getting her to sleep, and I went to sleep. Well, the only person that she did anything to be angry was my neighbor. I went to sleep thinking everything was okay. Then I heard you zip her in the morning, and then I'm like, okay, she must still went home.

And where do you think she went? I have no idea because I wasn't with her. You were with her right before she went to wherever she went next. So yes, you were. But after that I have no idea. Now I'll take polygraph, voice stress analysis, whatever they want. And I mean I do voice stress analysis polygraph, voice stress analysis, whatever they want. And I mean, I do voice stress analysis, polygraph. I mean seriously because I'm being straight bro. I know that that's where mine ends, you know what and it's really hard for me when people think that about me or if there's

any possibility because it's not, you know, and, and it would give something to even the people listening. They're like, wow, you know, cause right now there's too much speculation. There's too many questions. At least this would answer some. And then you can look and say, wow, John, And you know, then you can look and say, wow, John, you can set up, you know, polygraph or voice stress analysis or, you know, I am 110% for that. You know, because it will bring absolution and I can move on and, you know, I was as confused as everybody.

As of now, this is John's story. Every twist, every dodge, every moment he claims as his truth. And after all that, John agreed to something very big. Something that surprised me. He wants to take a polygraph test. Live. No editing. No excuses. And so, we're going to do it. This Sunday, May 18th, at 8pm Eastern Time, we're going to go live. John Gertin gets asked the hard questions by a real polygrapher in the most professional setting that we can create. You'll get to hear it all for yourself, in real time. No places to hide. So, this Sunday, May 18th at 8pm Eastern Time, follow UpAndVanished

on Instagram. We'll be going live on the UpAnd and Vanished Instagram, which is just at Up and Vanished. This is something we've never done before. And honestly, I have no idea how this plays out, but if you're as curious as I am, tune in Sunday, May 18th, 8 PM Eastern, Instagram live at Up and Vanished. See you Sunday. See you Sunday. Albright and Payne Lindsay. Lead producer is Mike Rooney along with producers Dylan Harrington and Cooper Skinner. Editing by Mike Rooney and Cooper Skinner with additional editing by Dylan Harrington. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Additional production by Victoria McKenzie, Alice Konick Glenn and Eric Quintana. Artwork by Rob Sheridan. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Seth. Mix and

mastered by Cooper Skinner. Thank you to Orren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing, and the Nord Group. Special thanks to all of the families and community members that spoke to the team. Additional information and resources can be found in our show notes. For more podcasts like Up and Vanished, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app,

or visit us at tenderfoot.tv. Thanks for listening.