Up and Vanished - Up and Vanished Weekly | UNRESOLVED: Elisa Lam

Episode Date: September 24, 2025

It's January, 2013, when 21-year-old college student Elisa Lam disappears after checking into LA's infamous Cecil Hotel. Elisa's family and police launch a search, but it isn't until weeks later that ...a hotel worker finds the body of Elisa Lam inside one of the Cecil Hotel's main water tanks. Police focus in on the sole piece of evidence, eerie security camera footage of Elisa from inside one of the hotel's elevators. The video shows a woman in a state of unexplainable crisis, leading many to wonder, what exactly happened to Elisa Lam? Tune in as Maggie goes through the tragic circumstances of Elisa's case, then stick around as Payne Lindsey sits down with Shane Pittman, host of "The Holzer Files" and "28 Days Haunted", and the two discuss Shane's perspective after spending countless hours inside buildings with dark pasts, much like the Cecil Hotel.Up and Vanished Weekly is available wherever you get your podcasts. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Starting point is 00:01:34 a strange subculture, or even geopolitics, and the way they approach it is smart, well-researched, and always a little different than what you'd expect. Recently, Red-Handed covered everything from the twisted story of Ed Gein to Australia's so-called Mushroom Murderer, Aaron Patterson. They even put together these sharp, quick-hit guides on big cultural moments like the JFK assassination, or Diddy's trial earlier this year. And if you're looking for something shorter, their other show, Shorthand, gives you a weekly bite-sized tit from Area 51 to the Holy Grail. With more than 400 episodes already out there, with Red-Handed, you have plenty to binge.
Starting point is 00:02:13 So, go search my friend's podcast, Red-Handed. That's all one word, red-handed, wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, Up and Vanish listeners, it's Rob. to share with you that over the next month we'll be spotlighting episodes of our new sister series Up and Vanished Weekly, hosted by Payne Lindsay and Maggie Freeling. Every week, Up and Vanish Weekly dives into a new missing or murdered person's case, bringing you interviews with experts and advocates who take you behind the scenes of the investigation. On behalf of the entire Up and Vanish team, we hope you enjoy Up and Vanish Weekly.
Starting point is 00:02:59 Up and Vanish Weekly is released every Wednesday and brought to you absolutely free. But for one week early access and ad-free listening, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at Tenderfootplus.com or on Apple Podcasts. If you're already a subscriber, thank you for your support. This podcast discusses mature and sensitive content, including descriptions of violence that may be triggering for some audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Hey all, welcome to another episode of Up and Vanish Weekly. I'm Maggie Freeling. I remember the first big trip I took with my friends. We had just graduated and the world was our oyster. We drove from Master's,
Starting point is 00:03:59 to Texas, and I had never left the Northeast. It was the trip of a lifetime. That's how Elisa Lam felt. The 21-year-old was planning to leave Canada and traveled the west coast of the United States. She was angsty and restless and wanted to explore. But what was supposed to be the trip of a lifetime ended in disaster when Elisa vanished without explanation. Weeks later, she was eventually found deceased. But the circumstances surrounding her death and disappearance have left many wondering. What happened in the moments leading up to Elisa Lam's death? It's the morning of February 19th, 2013 in downtown Los Angeles. Residents and staff of the Cecil Hotel are just beginning their day. Inside, the front desk is especially
Starting point is 00:04:59 busy. Over the last few days, multiple reports of low water pressure in the units have been coming in. The hotel dispatches a maintenance worker to check the water tanks, located on the roof at the building. The hotel has four water tanks, each measuring 10 feet high and holding a thousand gallons of water. The tanks supply both guest rooms, as well as an on-site kitchen and coffee shop. As the maintenance worker climbs up and begins his inspection, something immediately stands out. The maintenance hatch on one of the tanks appears to be open. He makes his way towards the open hatch and looks inside.
Starting point is 00:05:42 What he sees is horrifying. It's the body of a young woman, floating in water only feet below the hatch. After arriving on scene, it does not take long for a thitherly. to identify the woman as 21-year-old Elisa Lam. Elisa had been reported missing from the Cecil Hotel three weeks earlier. But with one mystery solved, police must now piece together another. Did Elisa willingly go into the water tank? Or did someone, or something, send her to a watery grave?
Starting point is 00:06:25 From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta, this is Up and Vanish Weekly, with Payne Lindsay and Maggie Freeling. Elisa Lam was first-generation Chinese-Canadian, born and raised in Vancouver. She attended the University of British Columbia and was described by friends and acquaintances as friendly, bubbly, and outgoing. But Elisa had recently been diagnosed with bipolar disorder and depression. She was struggling along with her family to understand what was happening. Elisa wrote about it on her blog. I feel I'm wasting my time compared to my fellow peers. I had a relapse at the start of the term and had to drop two of the three courses I was taking.
Starting point is 00:07:30 Now I'm down to one course and I have missed three weeks of classes. Elisa had not taken a course since summer of 2012. She was prescribed multiple medications, but treating serious mental illness is a process. Elisa still felt restless and aimless. She wrote on her blog, I must travel for sanity. I'm freaking 21 now. My youth is fading and I haven't even lived.
Starting point is 00:07:59 So in 2013, she packed up and left for San Diego to start a solo adventure around California, kind of like a way to rediscover herself and figure out what she wants to do in life. Elisa checked in with her parents every day. She also checked in with her blogs. She announced she had made it to California, and was looking for recommendations. At first, everything seemed to be going in a positive direction. Elisa was in a good place.
Starting point is 00:08:30 But based on what's been reported, not long after she arrived in L.A., things went downhill. Elisa arrived in L.A. and checked into the Cecil Hotel. on January 28th. Elisa started acting strangely not long after check-in. Elisa was sharing her room with several other women, who would eventually report threatening behavior to hotel management. According to the women, Elisa had been leaving threatening notes on their beds, and at one point, locked the women out of the room.
Starting point is 00:09:14 Eventually, Elisa was moved to a private room. Also, during her stay, Elisa attended a taping of a late-night television show, but according to police, was escorted out by security for acting erratically. On January 31st, the last day Elisa was seen alive, she spent the morning at a local bookstore, purchasing gifts for her family. According to the bookstore manager, nothing seemed out of the ordinary. But later that day, something appeared to be significantly wrong with Elisa. Hotel staff noticed her wandering the hotel, at times screaming out.
Starting point is 00:09:58 At one point, management had to intervene after Elisa entered a restricted area of the hotel. After being redirected by staff, Elisa made her way towards a bank of elevators. The following day, Elisa was scheduled to leave L.A. and traveled to Santa Cruz. But she never checked out. Her parents, who were accustomed to speaking with Elisa Daly, were now growing worried. They had not heard from their daughters since January 30th.
Starting point is 00:10:30 Fearing the worst, they called the LAPD and reported Elisa missing. We'll be right back after a quick break. When does fast delivery through Instacart matter most? When your famous grainy mustard potato salad isn't so famous without its grainy mustard. When the barbecues lit, but there's nothing to grill. When the in-laws decide that, actually, they will stay for dinner. Instacart has all your groceries covered this summer. So download the app and get delivery in as fast as 60 minutes.
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Starting point is 00:11:38 Based on what I saw on her blog, Elisa seemed excited about Explore. and getting out on her own. But she was also going through a hard time, struggling with treating bipolar one, a serious mental illness often accompanied by hallucinations, breaks of reality, and paranoia. She was also suffering from depression. So sometimes her posts are a bit melancholic,
Starting point is 00:12:05 but I would say nothing particularly alarming. It looks like a typical angsty youth blog to me. Things are copesthetic until Elisa checks into the infamous Hotel Cecil in downtown Los Angeles. The Hotel Cecil, or the Cecil Hotel as it's become known, has a long and sorted history, one which Elisa likely did not know because the hotel she checked into wasn't actually called the Cecil. It was renamed as part of a rebrand to get away from the shadow cast over the Cecil. The Hotel Cecil opened in 1927 as a 700-room luxury hotel. The former manager described it as sort of the Titanic of Hotels.
Starting point is 00:12:54 If you've seen American Horror Story Hotel, it's loosely based on the Cecil. But over the years, the Cecil became a shell of its former self, and the reputation it gained as the suicide hotel didn't help. Starting in 1931, a guest died by suicide. in his room after taking poison capsules, triggering a series of suicides through the 40s and 50s. The Cecil changed from a classy hotel to a budget dive. Then in 1964, a well-liked long-term resident of the hotel named Pigeon Goldie was found raped and murdered in her room, giving the Cecil the more nefarious reputation it has today. Into the 80s and 90s as the war on drugs raged,
Starting point is 00:13:43 the 50 city blocks surrounding the Cecil became increasingly dangerous. The neighborhood known as Skid Row was targeted as a place to condense marginalized populations into. People released from prison, jail, or psychiatric hospitals were dropped off in this neighborhood, away from the rest of L.A. Today, Skid Row is home to the largest stable, unhoused population in the country. According to 2024 statistics, there are nearly 3,800 people experiencing homelessness on Skid Row, with about half of them unsheltered. They live in tent cities of tarps, blankets, and boxes. Others live in shelters, and the few remaining single-room occupancy hotels, like the Cecil. Perhaps not surprisingly, as the neighborhood destabilized, it attracted crime and violence,
Starting point is 00:14:40 and the Cecil became the residence of multiple serial killers, including Richard Ramirez, the Nightstocker. Ramirez is said to have committed 14 murders while living at the Cecil. Austrian serial killer Jack Unterwerger also stayed at the Cecil. While there, he killed at least three women. Amy Price, the former manager of the hotel, claimed she witnessed 80 deaths in the 10 years she worked there. But again, Alisa wasn't staying in the Cecil.
Starting point is 00:15:13 She was staying at a chic hostel called The Stay on Main. It was indeed the Cecil, but it was rebranded in 2011. While half of the hotel remained the Cecil, a place for long-term, low-income residents, and stays with the CD history attached, the stay on Maine was the other side, a completely separate hotel on separate floors from the Cecil. But there was one caveat.
Starting point is 00:15:40 All of the guests used the same elevator. And it was inside one of these elevators that investigators would find a truly bizarre and the only piece of evidence. By the time police arrived to search Elise's hotel room, housekeeping had already been through. They had bagged up her personal belongings left behind, including her computer, a wallet, and medications.
Starting point is 00:16:10 According to police, the room had been left in disarray, but there was no sign of foul play, nor forced entry. Sent tracking dogs were brought into the hotel, searching all floors, including the roof. According to reports, while inside the hotel the dogs were able to hit on Elisa's scent, tracking it back to a room. At one point, one of the dogs led police to a large window overlooking the street and leading to a fire escape. An autopsy revealed no injuries that would point to foul play, and no illicit substances
Starting point is 00:16:51 were found in the toxicology report. During this time, police were also reviewing security camera footage of the hotel around the time Elisa went missing. In particular, one haunting video stood out to investigate. investigators. A camera inside one of the hotel's elevators had captured Elisa on January 31st the night she went missing. In the video, Elisa seems to be acting erratically, mashing elevator buttons, and even appearing to communicate with someone. The door remained open throughout Elisa's time appearing in the video. At one point, she is seen peering out fearfully into the
Starting point is 00:17:36 corridor, only to move back into the elevator and hide in the corner. Eventually, Elisa exited the elevator and disappeared from view. Two weeks into the investigation, authorities make the decision to release a portion of the video taken in the elevator in hopes of securing new leads. The video quickly goes viral and leads internet sleuths to propose the question. Could supernatural forces possibly be responsible for the disappearance of Elisa Lam? The video of Elisa Lam in the hotel elevator is something you have to see for yourself. Anyone who watches the video has a different interpretation of what they see, making the possibilities of
Starting point is 00:18:34 what happened to Elisa endless. Some believe they see a shoe in the video, indicating someone is outside of the elevator. And it's also interesting that the elevator door doesn't shut at all. It doesn't even attempt. So some people wonder if a person is outside the elevator holding a button keeping it open. And if there was, was this someone Elisa was with? Did she know them?
Starting point is 00:19:00 Did they do something to her? remember anyone in the stay on Maine or the Cecil could use the same elevator. Perhaps one of the Cecil guests harmed Elisa. It wouldn't be the first time in the Cecil Hotel. Or maybe someone following Elisa's blog. Investigators explored the idea of someone on the internet stalking Elisa. She was reaching out asking for recommendations. People also wonder if the behavior Elisa displayed in the elevator
Starting point is 00:19:31 may indicate she was running from someone. She seems like she's hiding at points and she's definitely in distress. And Elisa was found naked in the water tower. Her clothes were at the bottom of the tank, implying that someone else did something to her body. Yet there is no evidence anyone hurt or killed Elisa, nor any evidence she was put in the water tank by someone else.
Starting point is 00:20:01 So that leaves us to Elisa. Elisa seemed excited about life, but she was dealing with a new mental health diagnosis. And Elisa's family said she had a history of not taking her medication. And she's had hallucinations and paranoia after that. Elisa's family also said she wound up in the hospital after not taking her medication in the past. Elisa's death was ruled undetermined.
Starting point is 00:20:31 and later changed to an accident. Her cause of death was drowning. She entered the tank alive. Toxicology reports didn't find any drugs or alcohol in Elisa's system, and her autopsy revealed only trace amounts of her medication, suggesting she was not taking them consistently, despite having recently filled her prescriptions. So was Elisa off her medication and seeing things?
Starting point is 00:21:01 It's very possible. Her diagnosis was new and very serious. She was still working through everything. And often when someone takes medication and it helps and they feel better, which it's supposed to, that can also lead people to have a false sense of being better. And so they can stop taking medication. That's a very common situation. And perhaps Elisa was high on life, feeling great about her vacation,
Starting point is 00:21:29 and decided to stop taking her medication. I completely feel that. The medications Elisa was on also have pretty major side effects, and many people also choose not to take them because of that. So let's say she was disoriented and walked to the roof. Officials said the doors were locked and triggered by alarms. So how could she get to the roof? Dogs traced her scent to a fire escape on the fifth floor,
Starting point is 00:21:58 which led to the roof, indicating that It's possible she went up that way. And many can't help but think considering the Cecil is known as one of the most haunted hotels in the world, that perhaps the answer isn't something we can fully comprehend. Some believe Elisa was playing a paranormal game in the elevator, known as the elevator game. It's a Korean game that allegedly takes you to an alternate dimension through a specific button sequence on an elevator. Some think Elisa was playing this game with one of the many spirits that are said to haunt the Cecil Hotel. Can Elisa see someone in the video that we can't?
Starting point is 00:22:42 I'll admit, I'm much better versed in reporting on serious mental illness than the paranormal. But Payne spoke with paranormal investigator Shane Pittman for an episode of talking to death. Shane has starred in the Holeser files on the Discovery Channel and 21 days haunted on. Netflix. Shane has spent countless hours in allegedly haunted buildings, some of the most notorious in the world, like the Hotel Cecil. And he spoke to Payne about how his search for answers, he says, has led to a better understanding of his own mental health. When we come back from a quick break, we'll bring you Payne's conversation with Shane. The twisted tale of Amanda The Amanda Knox is an eight-episode
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Starting point is 00:24:50 and he hasn't been seen or heard from since. Now, it's reported that on Tuesday, August 5th, Bradley's black and green, 1995, Dodge Ram 1500 pickup was found just a few miles south of Quincy. Multiple search and rescue teams have been sweeping the area for Bradley, but they're looking for tips with any information about where he may have gone. Bradley's described as a white male, six foot three inches tall, with a weight of 186 pounds and brown eyes. He has a goatee and brown hair that's short on the sides and pulled back in a ponytail.
Starting point is 00:25:21 He may also be wearing glasses. Now, listeners, we need your help spreading the word about Bradley, so you can check out the Up and Vanish Weekly Instagram page at UAV Weekly to see a picture of Bradley and to share our post for more visibility. And lastly, if you've seen Bradley or you know any information about where he could be, please contact the Plumas County Sheriff's Office at 530-283-6375. All right, we're back. Thanks for coming to me, man. Hey, thank you for having me, man. I appreciate it. I just want to ask you point blank to be honest. Are ghosts real? I would say yes. You would say yes. I would say yes, but I would say as far as
Starting point is 00:26:05 like defining what ghosts and spirits are, I've changed my whole opinion on that. Okay. I know that we're communicating with someone or something, but I don't really know what it is. I just know it's beyond our scope of understanding right now. So in my opinion, how I label ghosts right now is something that I cannot see that I'm communicating with. Yeah, I would say it goes surreal. Okay, so what do you think it is? You know, I don't know. I have a lot of theories on that. Like, it could be interdimensional. It could be ourselves. So there's this interesting story from a guy he tells where he was a young kid and he walked into his kitchen to get a sandwich. And he was like five or six years old. He walked.
Starting point is 00:26:56 in and he sees this hooded figure opening up his refrigerator and it freaked him the hell out and he ran out of there scared to death fast forward though he's about in his early 20s he's in the same house he's visiting his parents and he runs down to get a snack which is a peanut butter sandwich and he runs down and he opens the refrigerator he's got a hoodie on and he sees a small figure in the doorway. And at first he's like, this is strange, it doesn't make any sense, but it freaked him out again.
Starting point is 00:27:35 But then he remembered when he was six years old, he saw a hooded figure in the same exact spot that he was standing to go get a snack and when he opened the refrigerator and he's thinking that maybe he saw a version of himself in the future. So maybe we're haunting ourselves. I know it's kind of a confusing thing. So he saw a guy.
Starting point is 00:27:56 goes essentially two times and like it potentially actualized that event right what does that mean to you is there some sort of time playing that we don't understand is it an imprint i believe i believe i believe it is an imprint i do believe that it's a time thing too because time is a man-made construct i believe that we are more powerful than we kind of give ourselves credit for i use this analogy all the time that, you know, I can walk into a room after a couple had been done fighting. And they're not saying a word, I can walk in, but you can feel the tension from that argument, even though they don't say anything to you at all. Are you actually feeling something, or are you observing them being different? Well, I think it's a, it's a mixture of both. Because I've, I've had this happen
Starting point is 00:28:51 more than one time where you walk in they're off doing their own thing but you can feel that something's not right you can feel like an energy or something right you can feel like a shift but you know if you're walking in certain places you know you're on high alert it's something within you that is telling you hey be careful it's that gut instinct and I think that that has something to do with it I think that we have more influence over certain hauntings than we you know we may realize so a lot of people say oh this place is haunted or whatever and i think a lot of times it has to do with the living more than what we perceive as the dead you know living is in the observer of it or the observer is sometimes the people that are inhabiting the place
Starting point is 00:29:42 they're living there okay um i think sometimes it has to do with maybe the environment things that are going on, stress levels, and whatever that energy is emitting at the time could play a factor in some of these strange and unusual things that's going on in people's lives. Okay, so instead of just being the Hollywood version of, you know, it's your dead great-grandpa, it's maybe your own energy in your life interacting with your surroundings in some sort of way? Absolutely. It's observable to others even? Right.
Starting point is 00:30:18 you know there's been since the dawn of time probably what millions billions of people that have passed from this physical plane and we can find them to structures so often we'll say this place is haunted this place over here is haunted but i feel that you know if that's true we pass on in some a fraction of a stay then they're everywhere or a piece of that person that was left behind is everywhere so we can encounter them you know daily i feel like there's this sort of hollywood image of or i guess hollywood portrayal of good and evil so frequently when it comes to hauntings and ghosts it's always usually portrayed as like a good or evil presence and i feel like that's not very scientific um but i mean that being said you know you hear stories about stuff that that feels darker or scarier in that way, but do you perceive those darker instances as an evil presence?
Starting point is 00:31:29 Or is it just how we're perceiving it? I've just thought before, what if something doesn't know where it is? Or like if it's trapped in a place and it's like stuck or maybe it's not even, it's like the remnants of what it once was. And it doesn't even know what it is anymore. I could imagine that being frustrating.
Starting point is 00:31:50 I'd be banging walls and shit too. Yeah, right. Well, and, you know, we always fear what we don't understand, too. Mm-hmm. So a lot of people, whenever they have some sort of unexplained experience, they immediately jump to fear. It's that fight or flight mechanism. You're wanting to flee the area because you don't understand what's going on.
Starting point is 00:32:09 That doesn't mean it's evil. That doesn't mean it's necessarily bad. To your point, I feel like if there is an instance where you do, do stay here for whatever reason after you die, then if you are an asshole here on earth, you're going to be an asshole. You stay in the afterlife for eternity. Think about it.
Starting point is 00:32:30 Like, your true essence of who you are, I mean, if you're a good person in life, it would make sense that you would be a good person if you stay behind in some sort of, if a piece of you left or stayed behind, then you would be still a good person. again, if you were an asshole, you'll be an asshole again, you know? Asshole ghost.
Starting point is 00:32:53 Yeah. I mean, I understand the just human nature part of the curiosity of paranormal stuff, right? I think that for ages, we've been fascinated by things that we don't understand, and there's a lot of stuff that we still don't understand, especially in the paranormal realm of things. And I don't know what any of it means or if it's, you know, something. something spiritual or scientific. I've leaned more to the scientific side of it. But how do you get wrapped into it in a way where you can be a professional investigator of it?
Starting point is 00:33:31 What was it that kind of made it more than just curiosity? My first experience was when I was six years old and very profound. I went to my mother about it and it was a very impactful thing for me. And during that time in my life, without going into much detail, there was a lot of abuse, a lot of really bad stuff in my life. It was within the moments where I was wanting to give up
Starting point is 00:34:00 and, you know, call it quits, when I would have these weird, strange, unusual moments that would kind of snap me back and say, okay, there's more than the shit life that you're living. There's more beyond it that you can't understand. And once I got into my teenage years, I started researching and reading all the books, Harry Price, Hans Holzer, all of the books based on the experiences that I was having at the time. Which were what? Exactly.
Starting point is 00:34:30 Well, I mean, for instance, when I was 12 years old, I had, I was in my room and the closet door was kind of slightly open. and we had one of those old houses where the carpet was higher, so the doors would always scrape the top of the carpet and would leave like a mark on there. And it was slightly open, and I was going to sleep. About five minutes goes by and the door slams. And I have siblings, so I was thinking, okay, somebody's playing a trick on me. So I go open the closet door, nothing was in there.
Starting point is 00:35:12 So I was like, this is weird. And me being the smart southern man that I am, I leave it open again. And I go lay back down. Probably a little time happens and it slams again. This time, I'm freaked out. I run to my parents' room, which is across the hall. And they're like, Shane, you're just, you're trying to stay up, go to bed. Right.
Starting point is 00:35:37 So they take me back to bed. And for whatever reason, that closet door is open again. and it slams for a third time after they leave the room this time they run into my room and I grew up in a religious household so my mother is pleading the blood of Jesus over me doing whatever she can just to just like whatever's going on it needs to stop now and I ended up sleeping in their room that night I would have weird visions or dreams I guess you can call it where there would be people that would walk up to my bedside and some of them would look like they're terrified.
Starting point is 00:36:19 Some would say, where am I at? Where am I at? Where am I at? I don't know where I am. That's the kind of stuff they were saying at the edge of your bed. Like they didn't know where they were literally. Like where? They weren't like haunting you.
Starting point is 00:36:28 They're like, where is this? Help me, where am I at? What's going to what they look like? So they look like us. That scares me kind of. They look like us. That they don't know where they are. Right.
Starting point is 00:36:40 More than them knowing where they are and who you are. And at that time, it's like, okay, am I, is this just my subconscious? Is this because I'm going through a lot of crap? Right, yeah, yeah. Am I just stressed and imagining these things? Right.
Starting point is 00:36:55 But then I would have other experiences like the door slamming and stuff, things that I knew even at a young age, okay, it can't be a draft in my room because the carpet there, like it's hard for me to push the door closed on its own. There's physical stuff too.
Starting point is 00:37:11 Right. so there's compounding evidence and even to this day how I kind of do investigations is I don't just jump at everything and say you know if I hear footsteps I don't say oh my God that's a ghost I look at it as if there's compounding evidence that's leading to something that I would assume would be more paranormal nature
Starting point is 00:37:31 then I would take a look at it and try to research further into what or who we're communicating with I just have this image of my head now, these people in the edge of your bed wondering where they are. Let's just pretend for a moment that those were definitely ghosts. How would you rationalize that? What are they doing there? I would say that they're, if they are real, I would say that they are in some transitional period and maybe a part of them has stayed behind and for whatever reason they're stuck. And again,
Starting point is 00:38:09 like I said, I would think, okay, maybe I'm just dreaming, but this was more than one occurrence and more than one house that I was in, sometimes in stressful environments, sometimes when my life was going great. But it was these moments where it's like, okay, if this is real, and not even saying it is for certain, but if it's real, I want to find out more about it. So the more that I researched and stuff, the more I saw that there was many other people that were having similar experiences. And I just wanted to know more. Fast forward to this time,
Starting point is 00:38:47 whenever I'm at events and I'm doing things, I get to talk to people, not just about the paranormal and the spooky stuff, but about mental health. And like I've been there, I took a leap. You know, if I didn't, if all of these things didn't play out like they were supposed to, I wouldn't be up here talking to you right now.
Starting point is 00:39:06 I wouldn't be able to do what I love. so I get to encourage other people that may be in my same shoes at that time and be able to give them some hope and that's something that is much more rewarding to me than a TV show or anything else. Of course, yeah, that human connection is priceless, right? Right, and believe it or not, man,
Starting point is 00:39:28 there's so many people that come to my events that they come to escape their own personal hell in their life. Right. And they come, this is something that they love, but at the same time, they come to kind of escape just the everyday life of what they're going through. And just sort of live in this world for a moment?
Starting point is 00:39:47 Right. And it shows them kind of like what I was thinking when I was younger. It's like there's more beyond this life that I'm living. There's more beyond that. And people get to come to these events and share and experiences of others that may be going through similar things
Starting point is 00:40:05 that they're going through. And it's just a time of fellowship and connection. And I think that's, again, more important than TV, more important than anything else. Back after a short break. During the Volvo Fall Experience event, discover exceptional offers and thoughtful design that leaves plenty of room for autumn adventures. And see for yourself how Volvo's legendary safety brings peace of mind to every crisp morning commute. This September, Lisa, 20,
Starting point is 00:40:35 2026 XE90 plug-in hybrid from $599 bi-weekly at 3.99% during the Volvo Fall Experience event. Conditions supply, visit your local Volvo retailer or go to explorevolvo.com. The new BMO ViPorter MasterCard is your ticket to more. More perks, more points, more flights, more of all the things you want in a travel rewards card, and then some. Get your ticket to more with the new BMO ViPorter MasterCard and get up to $2,400 in value in your first 13 months. Terms and conditions apply, visit bemo.com slash VIPorter to learn more. Hey listeners, if you have a tip or theories about a case you want to share
Starting point is 00:41:26 or a case of interest you'd like to recommend to us, then we want to hear from you. Email us, Cases at tenderfoot.com. DM us on Instagram at UAV Weekly, or give us a call at 770-545-641-1. You can also join the conversation on our Discord at discord.g-g slash up-and-vanished. Now, back to the show. Why is it that ghosts are so hard to capture on video and pictures? I mean, there has to be something that scientifically explains that a little bit later,
Starting point is 00:42:09 or they're just really good at ducking it somehow, right? Again, on Holzer files, we have captured some stuff. I think it's hand. Yeah, hand, there was a mist. It was Howard's Lodge, I believe it is. There was a mist going upstairs. Some really interesting stuff that is kind of hard for me. anomalies that we're not really.
Starting point is 00:42:35 It's hard for me to pinpoint what it is. Okay. And I think that it has something to do with, you know, our perception of what we can see, what our eyes can physically see. And that's why IR can, you know, it can capture things and it can see in a different scope than what our human eye could see.
Starting point is 00:42:58 I think it could be all frequency related. I think that may have something to do with it. that they may be showing up, but it's on certain frequencies, certain wavelengths, even cameras. Less physical than it is. Well, even our technology that we have maybe is not caught up to maybe the frequency that they're in.
Starting point is 00:43:16 Can't capture that necessarily. Yeah. I think even with EVP, electronic voice phenomenon, you know, whenever you capture something on a recorder, a voice that you know was not yours or anybody else's, there's this guy, Bill Chappell that makes all of, this tech and stuff. And he will tell you firsthand
Starting point is 00:43:37 that he doesn't believe in ghosts. He just believes that there's some strange shit going on and he's testing theories and testing things. But he told me something that was really interesting about EVP. He's like, you know Shane right now that I have this microphone that can shoot a laser to a certain part of a room
Starting point is 00:44:01 and I can play music in that frequency and it can sound like the music is coming from over there but really it's coming from this device I have in my hand but I can make the sound go wherever I want it to go
Starting point is 00:44:16 what? It's still like audibly coming from this device in his hand so yeah so it's electromagnetic but it's pinging somewhere creating this perception that it's not coming from right here in a frequency that the human ear can hear so like if there's a group of people
Starting point is 00:44:32 sitting in an audience he can point this microphone to the right half of the audience and only the right half can hear what's coming through yeah and the other half would be like I'm not hearing anything right so if there's things like that I believe that there's so much more in regards to frequency in regards to maybe our visual spectrums of what we can see that that is unexplained that maybe there's more that if our eyes could in that scope, we'd be seeing a hell of a lot more, you know. So I think that the reason why sometimes we don't capture it is maybe we don't, maybe we haven't caught up to the technology to be able to capture something like that. And maybe we're on a certain wavelength in certain times that we're able to see
Starting point is 00:45:21 anomalies and we're able to see things, hypnosis and things like that. I think maybe if we're in certain states, we're able to see anomalies and we're able to see and understand more. It's the same stuff with people who go through PTSD. They'll claim all the time they see all kinds of things. And we say, yeah, what could just be because it's a stress disorder, it's all this stuff, and we'll label it as a medical disorder. But who's to say that they're not really seeing the things that they're seeing sometimes.
Starting point is 00:45:55 Well, either way, it's still a reality to them. Exactly. So there's a fine line there. Yeah, you're right, yeah. There's a fine line. You got to think for the longest time people thought the earth was flat. People who entertained ideas
Starting point is 00:46:09 that, hey, the earth isn't flat. Yeah. Everybody who thought the earth was flat at the time was like, you're nuts. But if they didn't listen to that reason, we wouldn't have the advancements we have now. At one point in time, people thought something was a certain way.
Starting point is 00:46:25 But if they didn't listen to other theories and things like that, then we would still be still. stuck in that frame of thinking. If we didn't challenge that, right? Right. It's so easy to be in the moment and think that we've learned everything, right?
Starting point is 00:46:40 I think that's very naive and close-minded to think that way, but I totally get how even society makes it easier to think that, but we are literally learning shit every single day. And we'll never stop. I don't think we'll ever stop.
Starting point is 00:46:54 You don't stop, period. And this is why I love what I do so much. A lot of people look at it and be like, oh, you believe in ghosts, you believe in all this stuff. But I think the search for something is far more rewarding to me than actually finding the answer to all of this stuff. Right.
Starting point is 00:47:14 I think the search and building the connections along the way is far more valuable to me. Many are quick to jump to conclusions involving the supernatural as a way to explain Elisa Lam's tragic death. They see her movements, her behavior as bizarre. And of course, the Cecil's haunted history. And while Elisa's loved ones are still looking for answers, they do seem to accept that it was more than likely a tragic result
Starting point is 00:47:52 of Elisa's serious struggles with mental health. Elisa's sister says the movements in the elevator match previous episodes when Elisa had been off her medication. The high number of pills in her room suggest she had not been taking it regularly. In the end, law enforcement says Elisa voluntarily entered the water tank, with her bipolar as a contributing factor. And once she was inside,
Starting point is 00:48:20 there was almost no chance for her to pull herself out. Her clothing being off could be due to hypothermia, people often feeling hot when actually freezing or removing clothing to become lighter in an attempt to swim. I also think this is the most likely scenario of what happened to Elisa. I've lived with a loved one with serious mental illness and I have seen them in similar states to Elisa in the elevator as well. Elisa's family sued the Cecil Hotel for wrongful death,
Starting point is 00:48:53 alleging negligence on the hotel's part for not locking the water tanks, While I believe the story of Elisa Lamb is a tragic accident, many find it hard to ignore that on this trip all seemed okay until she entered the Hotel Cecil, a place with a violent history and haunted reputation. If you or someone you love is facing a mental health emergency, call or text 988 to reach the 988 suicide and crisis lifeline, or visit 988. 988 Lifeline.org to chat with a trained crisis counselor. Y'all, thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Up and Vanish Weekly. Be sure to tune in next week as we dig into another new case. Until next time. Up in Vantage Weekly is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey.
Starting point is 00:50:06 Your host are Maggie Freeling and myself, Payne Lindsay. The show is written by Maggie Freeling, myself, and John Street. Executive producers are Donald Albright and myself. Lead producer is John Street. Additional production by Meredith Stedman and Mike Rooney. Research for the series by Jamie Albright, Silesia Stanton. and Carolyn Talmage. Edit and Mix by Dylan Harrington and Sean Nernie.
Starting point is 00:50:33 Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Artwork by Byron McCoy. Original music by makeup and vanity set. Special thanks to Orrin Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing, and the Nord Group. For more podcasts like Up and Vanish Weekly, search Tinderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app, or visit us at Tinderfoot.tv.
Starting point is 00:50:58 Thanks for listening. Hi, everyone. I'm Ashley Flowers, creator and host of Crime Junkie, the go-to crime podcast for the biggest cases and the stories you won't hear anywhere else. So whether on your commute, studying, or while you work, let us keep you company. With new episodes every Monday, it is truly a crime junkie's dream.
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