Up First from NPR - A Stunned Israel Declares War After Hamas Surprise Attack. What's Next?

Episode Date: October 8, 2023

In this bonus episode of Up First, NPR takes stock of the first day of war between Israel and the Hamas militant group, as the death toll rises into the hundreds on both sides. Want more comprehensive analysis of the most important news of the day, plus a little fun? Subscribe to the Up First newsletter. Today's episode of Up First was edited by Olivia Hampton. It was produced by Mansee Khurana. And our executive producer is Erika Aguilar. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Israel and Hamas are at war. The militant group fired rockets out of the Gaza Strip as its fighters seized Israeli towns. Israel has only begun to respond. I'm Steve Inskeep, and this is a special episode of Up First from NPR News. Our colleague Leila Fadl is en route to the Middle East. We'll hear her insights on a region she covered for many years. Also, President Biden promises unwavering support. The United States stands with Israel.

We will not ever fail to have their back. How did Hamas surprise Israeli intelligence? And how much did the attack change Israel in a single day? Analyst Natan Sachs gives his insights. Stay with us. We'll try to make sense of the first day of war. Now Our Change will honor 100 years of the Royal Canadian Air Force and their dedicated service to communities at home and abroad. From the skies to Our Change, this $2 commemorative circulation coin

marks their storied past and promising future. Find the limited edition Royal Canadian Air Force $2 coin today. A map of Israel shows the extent of a Hamas attack this weekend. Hamas fighters invaded multiple Israeli towns and Hamas missiles struck a wide range of the country. Hundreds of people dead and more than 1,000 are wounded on each side of what is now a war. Here's what we heard from NPR correspondent Daniel Estrin in Israel on Saturday morning. Heavily armed Palestinian militants in Gaza flew across the border on paragliders.

They swam through the Mediterranean Sea. They drove over land in pickup trucks through Israel's fortified border fence, and they infiltrated several Israeli military camps and at least five Israeli communities, residential communities near Gaza. And there are still gun battles going on with Israeli forces as Palestinian militants still hold up there. We have heard some pretty astonishing stories. Israelis speaking to Israeli public broadcasting, talking about being in an outdoor festival, fleeing gunmen by foot and hiding in bushes. Militants going door to door, breaking into homes as people were holed up in their reinforced safe rooms. And in the town of Sderot, NPR spoke to a social worker, Doron Shabti. He was speaking

from his reinforced shelter room. He was with his baby. They had run out of milk formula. They had turned off all the lights in the house. And here's what he said. That's the situation. There are terrorists outside. Here's the fighting. Everyone's in the wild, they suction out their food, stay home, not go outside, not open the windows. So Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said, quote, we are at war. Israel has launched strikes on Gaza. Netanyahu says the first goal is to regain control of those Israeli communities where militants are and then to deliver a decisive blow on Gaza. But what is really making this astonishing for people here is that Hamas has published videos, which NPR has not yet confirmed, of Israeli soldiers and civilians they are claiming killed and taken Okay, so those are some of the voices from inside Israel

where we were hearing from NPR's Daniel Estrin. One big question is how this could happen. And if you walk the ground in Israel and Gaza, as Daniel Estrin has sometimes escorted me to do, you have a sense of why that is such a big question. Gaza is a small enclave. It is sometimes described as a giant open-air prison, which sounds like hyperbole until you get there and you see that it is in fact surrounded on some sides by what look like prison walls and guard towers and by fencing and Israeli troops. All of this led to a question for Natan Sachs,

who's director of the Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution, and the question comes here from NPR's Scott Simon. How could these attacks have occurred? Mr. Sachs, thanks for being with us. Thank you for having me. It's an excellent question, and one which will be asked a lot in Israel in the next coming months and many years to come. It's unclear. This was a dramatic tactical surprise, a huge success by Hamas.

It caught the Israeli defense forces off guard, Israeli leadership off guard. Tactically, they managed to swarm through the border in ways that really no one imagined. But also in a broader sense, Israel thought the Gaza Strip was not the danger zone at the moment. It was focusing on the West Bank, and clearly that was wrong. In many ways, this is a true doomsday scenario for Israeli intelligence, and many in Israel, although it's very early, are talking about this as a second 1973 when Israel was surprised. Of course, then the stakes were much, much higher and bigger with Egypt and Syria attacking. Well, we certainly recognize that there are human repercussions, which we're seeing really with each and Syria attacking. Well, we certainly recognize that there are human repercussions, which we're seeing really with each and every minute.

But I wonder what kind of shockwaves this sends to the Israeli security and military establishment and what they begin to do. Well, I'll say, you know, this looks like, of course, a very dramatic case, but it might seem like one more round between Israel and Hamas. I think this may not be. Natan Sachs says Israel is not the same country as it was just before this attack. That is how

much the military, security, and political situation has changed. But striking back at Hamas will not be easy. Since Hamas initiated this attack, they almost certainly went into shelter before this happened, and so it might be hard to get them. Still, I'd say Hamas had a huge success in the first hours of this operation and still ongoing, but it may turn out to be a Pyrrhic victory. The Israel determination of Israeli society writ large and this government to go after this leadership of Hamas, I think will be unlike in the past. They'll be hunted, and I think they might be hunted for many years to come. Their success may have been, in fact, too great for their goals.

Now, as we're talking on Saturday evening, our colleague Leila Fadl is preparing to travel to the Middle East, and she's taking a few minutes now to talk with us about that. Hi there, Leila. Hi. What thoughts first occurred to you when you learned of this attack over the weekend? Shock, frankly, Steve. Not shock that there was going to be another war between Israel and Gaza, because we see those every few years. This is an area that has been blockaded now for 16 years, but shocked that Hamas was able to infiltrate inside Israel, go into these towns and kill so many people and take hostages. My immediate thought was, where does this go from here? All of this death, and as we're speaking, more death is happening. The Israeli toll has gone up. Now we're hearing about the toll inside Gaza, which is being bombarded as we speak.

And it would be politically hard, among other things, for Israel to make a limited response to this because of the sheer scale. That's something we heard from Natan Sachs listening to his analysis. He even speculated on NPR that Hamas may have succeeded too much for its purposes because of the response that would now be called for. I mean, we're in uncharted territory here, frankly. I mean, this is a extremely far-right government. I think we don't know what's coming, but what we do know, as you said, is that the government is going to want to show force. This is being described by some as a 9-11 moment for Israel. And the response will be like that. But there are also hostages inside Gaza. And that it was definitely be part of the calculation.

We heard the warning from the Israeli government that Palestinians should leave their homes because they're going to reduce places they believe Hamas militants are to rubble. And my question also is where will those Palestinians go? Because this is a sealed area. And can they escape to Egypt? I mean, that border is typically sealed. They can't come into Israel. So I wonder about that. Meanwhile, right now, there are a bunch of people who are looking for their loved ones who have gone missing, possibly taken into Gaza.

How is the U.S. responding to this, Leila? President Joe Biden made it very clear that the U.S. stands with Israel and would offer all appropriate support. He also had a warning when he spoke at the White House. Let me say this as clearly as I can. This is not a moment for any party hostile to Israel to exploit these attacks to seek advantage. The world is watching. And of course, we'll just note the United States is by far Israel's most important ally, a very, very close ally. Their intelligence agencies collaborate very closely all the time. And in moments of crisis,

the United States has come through as Israel's arms supplier. Leila, I want to ask a little bit about the broader context and add a caveat first. There's been a lot of speculation about why Hamas would have struck now. We don't really know. But let's just talk about what was happening in the region diplomatically in the moments leading up to this attack. This was happening at a time where a mega deal between Saudi Arabia and Israel is being negotiated with possible normalization. This would be historic. Saudi Arabia has never recognized Israel. And so the question is, does this derail that process? I think a lot of Palestinians will say

that this moment shows that there can't be real peace without Palestinians. We're not at a point where there is any real peace negotiations between Israel and Palestinians. It's hard, though, to speculate about where this goes. I think what I've learned in my years covering the Middle East is you don't assume where things might go, because you never do know. We don't know what the coming days will bring, other than the fact that more people will die. And this is a devastating moment for Israelis and Palestinians with all of this loss of life. Now, we mentioned you're packing to travel. What questions will be on your mind as you head to the Middle East? Obviously, the first big question is that

question that we heard earlier, like how did this happen on what is supposed to be one of the most secure borders with the most sophisticated military equipment? What happened that led to this? How did Hamas do this? But my bigger question overall is that the extreme positions on both sides that are hardening and entrenched, where does the middle live now? Is it possible for the organizations that have been working together, Palestinians and Israelis, to try to find a path forward? Is it possible for them to even work together at this moment when emotions are so high, anger is so high about the death that they're seeing, Israelis and Palestinians. I want to understand if there's even space for that.

So I think a lot about the future, which is very hard to do right now when all I can imagine or all I see are the videos that have been coming out of these towns of the absolute terror that people were going through when militants came into their towns and their communities. I'll also add that it will be very difficult for us to access Gaza, which is typically sealed during these conflicts. And so there's a lot we won't know about what people are going through there as they live through bombardment in the days ahead. My colleague, Leila Fadl, thanks so much. Safe travels. Thank you, Steve.

And Leila is expecting to be hosting NPR's Morning Edition and Up First from the Middle East in the coming days. This is a special edition of Up First from NPR News. The episode was edited by Olivia Hampton, produced by Mansi Khurana, and our executive producer is Erika Aguilar. I'm Steve Henskeep.