Up First from NPR - DOJ’s Maxwell Transcripts, Possible Interest Rate Cut, DC Immigrants Fearful

Episode Date: August 23, 2025

The Justice Department released transcripts and recordings of their recent talks with convicted sex trafficker and Jeffrey Epstein partner Ghislaine Maxwell yesterday. Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell signals the Fed may start interest rates cuts soon. After nearly two weeks of stepped-up arrests and federal law enforcement presence in the nation’s capital, many immigrants are afraid to attend church, worried they could be detained and deported.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

The Justice Department releases transcripts from its talks with convicted sex trafficker Gillen Maxwell. And the FBI searches the home and office of former Trump aide John Bolton. I'm Ayesha Roscoe. And I'm Scott Simon, and this is up first from NPR News. It's been almost nine months since the last time the Federal Reserve cut interest rates. But this could soon change. Also in Washington, D.C., there is fair among...

the faithful. Attendance is down at several churches as immigrants worry about getting arrested by federal agents. The grief is unbearable. The lament that we feel as a community. I feel like we are losing our humanity in this moment. So please stay with us. We have the news you need to start your weekend. As we just mentioned, it was a busy Friday for the DOJ, an FBI search of President Trump's former National Security Advisor, now prominent Trump critic, John Bolton. And the release of transcripts from a recent interview with Gulen Maxwell, the longtime associate of convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. NPR Justice correspondent Ryan Lucas joins us. Ryan, thanks for being with us. Thanks for having me, Scott. And let's begin with Gillen Maxwell. Remind us whether the DOJ talked to her in the first place.

So Maxwell's a former girlfriend, and as you said, long-time associate of Epstein's. She's currently serving a 20-year sentence on sex trafficking and other charges for helping Epstein sexually exploit underage girls. Now, the number two official in the Trump Justice Department, the president's former personal attorney, Todd Blanche, he sat down for a two-day interview with Maxwell in Florida last month. And he did so because the DOJ is trying to tamp down the public blowback that it's faced over its handling of the Epstein files. Anything stand out from those transcripts for you? There weren't any major revelations. Many of the famous names that have surfaced over the years in connection with Epstein do come up. But at one point, Maxwell tells Blanche that she never saw any man do anything inappropriate with a woman of any age while with Epstein. And she also said that Epstein didn't have a client list, that there's no black book, and that he didn't blackmail a socialist.

Trump and Jeffrey Epstein were friends for years before they had an apparent falling out. What did she say about Donald Trump? So Maxwell told Blanche that she never saw Trump do anything improper. She said he was never in an inappropriate setting. She also said this. And as far as I'm concerned, President Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me. And I just want to say that I find, I admire his extraordinary achievement in becoming the president now. And I like him. And I've always liked him.

Now, her attorney, says Maxwell told the truth in this interview. But there are a couple of things to bear in mind here. One is that Maxwell, as I said earlier, is serving a 20-year prison sentence. She would very much like a reduction in that sentence or a pardon. The one man who can deliver that is President Trump. The other thing is that, remember, a federal jury in New York heard evidence about Maxwell's role grooming girls for Epstein to sexually exploit. And they convicted her on that evidence. Do you think the transcript and audio recordings are going to convince those who've doubted the department

is being open about the Epstein case. It's hard to imagine, but we'll see what effect this has. Many skeptics want to see the full Epstein files. Now, the Justice Department did send some of those files to the House Oversight Committee on Friday. That was in response to a subpoena. Now, those files aren't going to be made public right away. The committee's Republican chairman says that the panel's going to go through them

to make sure that victims' identities and any child sexual abuse materials are redacted first. Finally, Ryan, the FBI search of John Bolton's home and office. What can you tell us? So, Vice President J.D. Vance, has said that this is related, at least in part, to classified documents. Now, Bolton, as you noted at the top, is a very outspoken critic of President Trump. And this search of his home and his office, those come just a couple of weeks after the Justice Department opened probes into two other very prominent outspoken Trump critics. That's California Senator Adam Schiff and New York. Attorney General Letitia James. So this is just going to deepen concerns about whether the Justice Department is using its

enormous powers to pursue President Trump's promised campaign of vengeance against his perceived political enemies. And here's Ryan Lucas. Thanks so much. Thank you. The Federal Reserve Chairman sent the stock market soering yesterday with his speech in Jackson whole Wyoming. Jerome Powell suggested the central bank could soon start cutting interest rates. He also talked about how the Fed plans to balance its twin goals of fighting inflation and

unemployment over the longer run. NPR Scott Horsley joins us. Scott, thanks for being with us. Good to be with you, Scott. What got the market so excited? Investors are betting. This means the Fed's going to cut its benchmark interest rate when policymakers meet in about three and a half weeks. That's after the Fed's been in a whole holding pattern for the last eight months. Now, Powell stopped short of promising a rate cut in September, but said one could be warranted given some of the recent signs of a softening job market. We're going to get one more monthly snapshot on jobs before that September meeting. We'll also get one more update about inflation. Powell says it is clear that President Trump's tariffs are

putting some upward pressure on prices, but it's not clear how big or persistent those price hikes might be. The Fed often has to strike a balance between fighting inflation and propping up the job market. How's the central bank approaching that? Well, its approach is a changing a little bit after its most recent review, which it does every five years or so. After the previous review, back in 2020, the Fed said it was willing to let inflation run a little hotter above its 2% target and would not preemptively raise interest rates just because the unemployment rate was really low. Once the pandemic hit and the war in Ukraine started, though, all that kind of went out the window. And today, Powell says the balancing act looks very different. The past five years have been a

painful reminder of the hardship that high inflation imposes, especially on those least able to meet the higher costs of necessities. So the Fed is no longer talking about letting inflation run above target. It's reiterating that its target is 2% inflation and says it will act forcefully to keep people's expectations in line with that. Scott, you mentioned the president's What other administration policies are affecting the Fed's calculations? The president has been waging an aggressive crackdown on immigration, which is reshaping the workforce. And the theme of this year's Jackson Hole Conference is a workforce in transition. You know, thousands of baby boomers are retiring every day.

Americans are not having enough new babies to maintain the population. In recent years, we've relied on immigration to close that gap. But that's largely dried up now, both legal and illegal. immigration are way down. The Trump administration argues this is going to create new opportunities for native-born workers to come off the sidelines and find jobs. But economist Joe Brusuelas of the accounting firm RSM is dubious. I am highly skeptical that there's a reserve army of individuals ready to stream in and pick grapes, clean houses, cut yards, and work in meat factories. That's just not there. Automation and artificial intelligence might

help make the existing workforce more productive in the future. But until that happens, we're basically setting a lower speed limit on the nation's economic growth. Of course, this was Jerome Powell's final appearance at Jackson Hole's Fed chairman. What kind of reaction did he get? He got a standing ovation, which probably felt pretty good. He's not been getting a lot of applause from President Trump. In fact, Powell has gotten intense criticism from the White House for not moving more quickly to cut interest rates. The Fed is supposed to be insulated from that kind of political influence. So it can make tough, sometimes politically unpopular decisions on interest rates.

Bruce Waelis warns, if that independence is compromised, it will lead to worse economic outcomes. If we move away from central bank independence, we're not only going to have three to four percent inflation, and we're going to have much higher inflation, and we know who's going to bear the burden of those transition costs, the middle class, the working class, and the working poor. Powell has just nine months left in his term as Fed chairman, and colleagues took the opportunity of his final Jackson Hole speech to show their support, both for Powell personally and for an independent central bank. And Pierre Scott Horsley, thanks so much. You're welcome. It's been nearly two weeks since President Trump issued an executive order declaring a crime

emergency in the District of Columbia, and houses of worship here are feeling a chilling of fact. Last weekend, churches in neighborhoods that have large numbers of immigrants reported there were drops in attendance, and now many of them face another Sunday of uncertainty. To help us understand this, I'm joined by Aleja Herzler McCain from our partners at Religion News Service. Welcome to the program. Good morning. Thank you for having me. So a lot of church leaders have said this is already impacting their congregations. Can you tell us a bit about what happened last Sunday? It was a bit of a mixed bag. In some churches with many immigrants, leaders told me attendance was pretty normal, but several other faith leaders said attendance was significantly down. One pastor told me that

the church's WhatsApp groups were full of sightings of agents and immigration detentions and just a lot of fear. And that fear even extends to citizens and people with legal status because they say they're afraid of racial profiling. And some people say this kind of feels like the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic with people stockpiling food and hiding at home. One Episcopal Church even canceled their service last week. For those congregations who really are feeling an effect, what's it been like for people in the pews? Like, has that fear changed things for them? Yeah, in one Catholic parish with a large Central American population, but also people from other parts of the world, the shrine of the sacred heart, the pastor told me mass attendance was down about 20%.

That's 500 fewer people than normal. And one usher originally from Guatemala was detained just three blocks from the parish while walking to mass last Sunday. And he's not the only one. The pastor told me at one point this week there were seven parishioners in detention. Some of them detained coming to and from church. There's also fear in the parish in other ways. One woman went in to pick up her final check at a job she's too scared to go to this week. And lay leader Sonia Aquino went with her.

Here's what she had to say. How can I say, oh, don't worry. everything is going to be fine when you, the truth is that it's not that way. They can be cut anywhere, anyway, any moment. Aquino said for some people this is shaking their faith, but she encourages them to remain strong. I mean, this really sounds like a very challenging moment for the pastors and the church leaders who are trying to minister to congregants in crisis. How have they been handling this? There's some really intense emotions right now.

Congregation Action Network's executive director, Reverend Julio Hernandez, told me this. The grief is unbearable. The lament that we feel as a community. I feel like we are losing our humanity in this moment. Reverend Hernandez told me some people are terrified because their loved ones are disappearing and they can't even find them in the government locator for detention. And those feelings have a physical impact. Some people can't sleep or rest.

So how are churches navigating this Sunday's services? Yeah, the churches I spoke to told me they're committed to meeting the needs of their members, whether they can make it to the building or not. That Catholic Church I mentioned earlier is committed to moving forward with activities, you know, like a health fair because people who come in person still need services. Other faith leaders told me that they're making sure that people who are stuck at home get food. They're walking the streets to try to make other people feel more. more safe. They're setting up prayer vigils. And they're also ensuring or working to ensure that people

in detention receive pastoral care, which isn't always possible. That's Aleha Hertzler McCain from Religion News Service. Thank you so much. Thank you. This story was produced through a collaboration between NPR and Religion News Service. The Trump administration did not offer comment on this report, but has consistently said its immigration enforcement actions are necessary and long overdue. And that's up first for Saturday, August 23rd, 2025. I'm Scott Simon. And I'm Aisha Roscoe. Today's podcast was produced by Elena Torque, with help from Crystal Herrera, and Dave Mistich.

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