Up First from NPR - Gaza Evacuation Begins, Israel's Endgame, GOP Nominates Another Speaker

Episode Date: October 14, 2023

Palestinians are beginning to leave northern Gaza as Israel threatens a ground invasion. Past experiences raise questions about whether Israel can control Hamas in the long term. House Republicans tap Rep. Jim Jordan as the next speaker, but he still must be confirmed by whole chamber.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Palestinians begin to evacuate the northern part of the Gaza Strip. As Israel launches limited raids in the territory to find Hamas fighters. And threatens a full-scale invasion. I'm Aisha Roscoe. And I'm Scott Simon. This is Up First from NPR News. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin assures Israel of U.S. support, but also calls for the country to observe international law. This is a time for resolve and not revenge, for purpose and not panic, and for security and not surrender.

Plus Israel's endgame once it invades Gaza. And in Washington, D.C., Republicans are trying again with a new nominee for House Speaker. That's 10 days after losing their last one. So please stay with us. We've got the news you need to start your weekend. Now Our Change will honor 100 years of the Royal Canadian Air Force and their dedicated service to communities at home and abroad. From the skies to Our Change, Royal Canadian Air Force and their dedicated service to communities at home and abroad.

From the skies to our change, this $2 commemorative circulation coin marks their storied past and promising future. Find the limited edition Royal Canadian Air Force $2 coin today. In the Gaza Strip, there are fears that violence will escalate as Israel continues its attacks on the area. The Netanyahu government says it's rooting out Hamas militants who pulled off the most devastating attack on the country in 50 years. And it has ordered civilians to leave the northern part of the strip in preparation for a widely expected ground assault. NPR's Peter Kenyon joins us now from Jerusalem. Thank you for being with us. Hi, Aisha. So, Peter, can you tell us more about the raids the Israeli armies conduct in northern Gaza right now? Yes, and according to the IDF spokesman, Daniel Hagare,

the army carried out the raids and retrieved bodies of several Israelis who had been missing since the Hamas attack. That was a week ago now. He said the families had been notified. Hagare also said troops found items, unspecified items, that he said might lead to the whereabouts of more missing Israelis. And separately, there was comment from Lieutenant Colonel Richard Hecht, the IDF international spokesperson. He told reporters that Israeli forces are, quote, seeing things no one should ever have to see. He said, quote, this is the face of evil. He said Israel's main targets would be the leaders of Hamas ever have to see. He said, quote, this is the face of evil. He said Israel's main targets would be the leaders of Hamas militants in Gaza.

He said, however long it takes, Israel will get those responsible for the slaughter of Israeli civilians. Gaza woke up to the news Friday that Israel had ordered Palestinians to evacuate northern Gaza and head south. Where does that stand? Yes, it was a very controversial order issued to more than a million residents of northern Gaza. The United Nations said that could lead to a calamitous situation and called on Israel to rescind it. We are now seeking reports of Palestinians on the roads heading south. Israel called it a significant movement. There have also been reports of some evacuating Palestinians feeling that it wasn't safe and trying to turn around to go home. Israel has since announced that it will allow safe passage on two main roads, one inland, one on the coast, heading south from the northern Gaza Strip between the hours of 10 a.m. and 4 p.m. each day. The U.S. has promised to do whatever is necessary to make sure Israel can defend itself.

Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin was in Israel yesterday. What did he say? Austin said as a former CENTCOM commander, Hamas reminds him of ISIS. Bloodthirsty, fanatical, and hateful were his words. He added that like ISIS, Hamas has nothing to offer but, quote, zealotry, bigotry, and death. Now, he also referred to President Joe Biden's comment to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and Biden said, while the U.S. would also respond swiftly and decisively to any such massive terrorist assault, democracies such as ours are stronger and more secure, quote, when we uphold the laws of war.

Here's how he put it. Terrorists like Hamas deliberately target civilians, but democracies don't. This is a time for resolve and not revenge, for purpose and not panic, and for security and not surrender. Some critics have said Israel's bombardment of Gaza has already killed too many civilians. Austin did not say that. He did say the U.S. has sent warships and other assets to the region and is prepared to deal with anyone who seeks to take advantage of the situation.

And another more positive front, the State Department says it expects the Rafah crossing from Gaza into Egypt to be open, possibly for some 500 to 600 Americans for several hours a day. Hamas, of course, would have to allow people to leave. Peter, what's the sentiment there in Jerusalem, you know, where you are? Well, there is strong support for the Israeli military, tremendous sympathy for the families of those killed by Hamas. Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Galad said more than once yesterday that they weren't just killed or kidnapped. He alleged that rapes were committed and Israelis, including children and babies, were burned. But there's also increasingly sharp criticism being leveled not just at the military and intelligence agencies for not having anticipated this attack, but at Israel's political leaders, especially Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. One analysis piece ran under

the headline, quote, Netanyahu is on brand, no responsibility, no accountability, no remorse. It charged Netanyahu with forming a temporary war cabinet as a means of, quote, making sure there's someone else to blame for the Gaza war failures. So the political impacts of this within Israel are likely to be felt for some time. NPR's Peter Kenyon in Jerusalem, thank you so much, Peter. Thanks, Aisha. Israel has attacked Hamas before in Gaza, but only inflicted temporary setbacks. So what can the country do this time around to make sure Hamas does not launch another attack down the line? We're joined by NPR's Greg Myrie, who was covered fighting in

Gaza in years past. Greg, thanks for being with us. Good morning, Scott. We know that the Israeli military has a history of operating in Gaza. What should we keep in mind about these past incursions? So the Israeli troops and civilians pulled out of Gaza back in 2005 after being there nearly four decades. Since then, Israeli forces have re-entered the territory several times. The largest operation was 2014, and that lasted seven weeks. It was very bloody, and it dealt Hamas a major setback. But Hamas is rebuilt, and you know, Scott, here we are just nine years later, and the group just unleashed its deadliest assault ever on Israel. So the question is really whether Israel can deliver a blow to permanently weaken or cripple

Hamas and not just a temporary one. Let's say that Israel destroys, and I don't want to use euphemisms, kills most Hamas militants and blows up their weapons, would Hamas still remain the dominant force in Gaza? Well, certainly possible and maybe even likely. Hamas says it has a political wing and a military wing that operate independently, and Israel says all of Hamas is dedicated to destroying Israel. But these Israeli military operations that we've seen in the past have focused on the Hamas militants rather than the Hamas political leaders. Israel has effectively tolerated Hamas political leaders, hoping they'd focus on running the territory, providing basic services. But now Israel says it wants to destroy all of Hamas, and this is a major undertaking, complicated by the fact that Hamas is believed to be holding about 150 hostages. Paul Salem, head of the Middle East Institute in Washington, said Israel may not be able to achieve its goals

and at some point may have to accept some sort of continued Hamas presence in Gaza. Israel might feel, well, you know, we made them pay enough of a price. We've secured our border enough. Now let's get our people back. Let's negotiate new rules of the game. So there is a way to do this. But the moment is not now. If Hamas were to be removed from power, Greg, who could take over in Gaza? You know, it's really not clear. Israel doesn't appear interested at this point in a full-fledged occupation with troops in Gaza for the long term, but there aren't other obvious options. Again, Paul Salem. But somebody to come and step in and backstop an Israeli invasion

after, you know, 10,000 Palestinians have been killed, nobody's interested in doing that. This is really an Israeli-Palestinian problem. Nobody's interested in doing that. This is really an Israeli-Palestinian problem. Nobody's going to step in and shoulder that burden. So even as Israel prepares for a military operation, it needs to figure out what comes afterward, and there's no clear answer. And because Greg Myrie, thanks so much for being with us. Sure thing, Scott. House Republicans have nominated Ohio Congressman Jim Jordan as their new speaker. But he won the vote by a narrow margin, and it is unclear if he'll prevail when his name comes up before the whole chamber. Another candidate,

Steve Scalise from Louisiana, dropped out earlier this week because he didn't think he would. And our congressional correspondent Deidre Walsh has been following all of this from the Capitol and joins us now. Deidre, thanks for being with us. Good morning, Scott. So let me try and understand this. Jim Jordan won a majority of the votes to get the nomination. How much work does he have to do to get enough more votes to become Speaker? He has a lot of work to do. I mean, he beat out Georgia Republican Austin Scott by about 40 votes in the internal Republican vote. But Scott only decided to run hours before yesterday's election. He didn't even really campaign. Jordan is a known quantity, and many expected he would have had a much larger vote. Even some of his supporters admitted they thought he would do better. He won 124 votes to Scott's 81. Jordan still doesn't

have the broad support he needs of all the Republican factions. Remember, the House Republicans have a razor-thin majority. If all 221 Republicans show up on the House floor and vote, Jordan can only lose four. So House Republicans went home for the weekend. They're going to regroup on Monday. The House isn't back in session until Monday night, so it's unclear how soon the House is going to vote on a new speaker. And how will that work when it actually gets to the chamber? I mean, January took 15 rounds of voting to elect Kevin McCarthy as speaker, for however briefly he served.

Right. Most House Republicans really want to avoid that. After they nominated Jordan, there was another vote on whether House Republicans were ready to vote for him on the floor. He got 155 votes on that ballot, but that's more than 60 short of the 217 he needs to get the gavel. House Democrats are all expected to vote against him. Some Jordan allies think he can win more support on the floor because former President Trump endorsed him, and they see that floor vote as a test of loyalty to Trump. Kentucky Republican Tom Massey is a supporter of Jordan's,

says he's really popular with the Republican base, and says there's going to be a lot of pressure on House Republicans to get in line when they do a roll call vote. And so when you have to stand up in front of God and country and say a name, your constituents are hoping you're going to say Jim Jordan. Deidre, tell us more about Jim Jordan. We think of him as the guy who doesn't wear a jacket. Right. He still doesn't wear a jacket. He's a conservative firebrand. He's been in the House for about 15 years, and he really was a political outsider at the beginning of his career. He had a reputation as a thorn in the side of top House Republican leaders. He ran a fiscal group of

conservatives called the Republican Study Committee. When that group wasn't conservative enough, he founded the House Freedom Caucus. He had many public battles with his former Ohio colleague, who was then Speaker of the House of the time, John Boehner, and Boehner dubbed Jordan a legislative terrorist. He did become eventually close to House leadership under then House Speaker Kevin McCarthy. That just shows how much the Republican Party has shifted in just a few years. McCarthy used to complain about Jordan, but yesterday he was campaigning for him to take his place. Jordan has been leading the impeachment inquiry against President Biden. He voted against the certification of the 2020 election results. You know, right after he won the nomination, Democrats held a press conference and warned if he's elected, he's a threat to democracy.

And Pierce Deidre Walsh, thanks so much. Thanks, Scott. And that's Up First for Saturday, October 14, 2023. I'm Scott Simon. And I'm Aisha Roscoe. Gabe O'Connor and Danny Hensel produced this Saturday version of Up First. Editing was by Peter Granitz,

Dee Parvaz, Shannon Rhodes, Tara Neal, Larry Kaplow, Raphael Nam, and Matthew Sherman. Our directors are Andrew Craig and Michael Radcliffe with engineering support from Hannah Gluckman. Evie Stone is our senior supervising editor.

Sarah Oliver is our executive producer. And Jim Kane is our deputy managing editor. And thanks to all those people who also lend their talents to Weekend Edition. Up First is back tomorrow with a story about how city planning can help solve the climate crisis. The closer we put housing, schools, retail, and offices to one another, the less driving we'll have to do. And there's more news, interviews, books, and music this weekend on the radio as well. Weekend Edition airs every Saturday and Sunday morning. You can find your NPR stations at stations.npr.org. you