Up First from NPR - Gisèle Pelicot Tells Her Story

Episode Date: February 15, 2026

How do you find the strength to face the unimaginable? In September of 2024, Gisèle Pelicot took the stand in an unprecedented mass rape trial in France. On trial was her former husband, along with 50 other men. Police had found images and videos of her husband and dozens of men raping Pelicot while she was drugged and unconscious. In this episode of The Sunday Story, Gisèle Pelicot sits down with NPR’s Michel Martin to talk about the pain of discovering what had happened to her, the harm it did to her family, and her decision to reject shame and speak up on behalf of victims of sexual assault.Pelicot’s new memoir, “A Hymn to Life,” will be published on February 17th.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

I'm Aisha Roscoe, and you're listening to The Sunday Story from Up First, where we go beyond the news of the day to bring you one big story. Before we start, a warning. Today's episode discusses sexual assault. In September of 2024, Giselle Pelico took the stand in an unprecedented mass rape trial in France. On trial was her former husband. along with 50 other men. In 2020, police found images and videos of her husband and dozens of men raping her while she was drugged and unconscious. Pelico had the right to remain anonymous

and keep the trial behind closed doors. But she chose to open the trial. It had a lot of time. In the beginning, I did want to be able to... In the beginning, I did want to... it to be a closed trial because I was ashamed. But I walk a lot. So as I was walking, it sort of started coming to me a little by little. I said to myself that the shame needed to change sides. And by having the closed trial, I was giving them a gift. The trial was widely broadcast and drew

international attention while provoking a national reckoning in France. All of the defendants were found guilty, and Pelico's former husband received a maximum 20-year sentence. Now, Giselle Pelicoe has written a book about her experience. It's called A Him to Life. She recently spoke with my colleague, Michelle Martin, through an interpreter in Paris. They talked about the pain of discovering what had been happening to her. When I saw those photos, I did not recognize myself. I did not recognize that woman.

The harm it did to her family. It's false to think that this type of tragedy brings people closer together. It doesn't. And also about her decision to speak up on behalf of victims of sexual assault. When we come back, we're sharing that powerful conversation. Stay with us. This message comes from Wise, the app for international people using money around the globe. You can send, spend, and receive

and up to 40 currencies with only a few simple taps. Be smart. Get Wise. Download the Wise app today or visit wise.com. T's and C's Apply. Hey, it's Latif from Radio Lab. Our goal with each episode is to make you think, how did I live this long

and not know that? Radio Lab. Adventures on the Edge of what we think we know. Listen, wherever you get podcasts. How could your favorite MPR podcast get any better. Well, what if it had bonus features such as extended interviews and zero sponsor breaks? There is a remarkably easy way to turn that fantasy into reality. It's called NPR Plus. You get perks across more than 25 NPR podcast while supporting the teams that make them. Make great podcasts even greater by visiting plus.npr.org.

We're back with the Sunday story. Here's NPR's Michelle Martin with Giselle Pelico. Madame Pelicoe, it's a great honor to speak with you. And I know that sometimes you don't enjoy these accolades, but it is a great honor to speak with you. Thank you. I also, I'm happy to meet you as well. Thank you. She's very happy to meet you as well.

So let's start with the book. What made you want to write it? At the part, I didn't have the intention of writing a book at all. I didn't have the intention of writing a book at all. all, but during the trial proposals came in, and then I started thinking that maybe this could be helpful. Maybe what was happening to me could help other people. It could serve a purpose. And the message basically is that no matter what kind of difficulties, struggles, trials, and tribulations were going through, we have to gather our strength and we can stand up to it.

The book is very beautifully written. And I wondered if you knew that you had a gift for words. Or is this another gift or strength that you found within yourself after you went through these traumatic events? I wrote this book with Judith Perignon, who's an amazing writer and journalist. And she was very open-minded and she helped me work through a lot of the difficulties that I experienced. and she had a very open ear, an open mind, and was a great listener, and I trusted her completely. Did you understand before these events

that you had this gift of storytelling, of being able to share your story? No, I didn't really know that I had a gift at all. It's just about telling my family's story. story. I go through three generations, three women, my grandmother and my mother, three women who, and I'm telling about their pain, their suffering, their joie de vivre, or lust for life, and their resilience. And so I look deep inside myself, and I just found meaning in all of that. First, let me just say that, you know, I have many questions, but if there's something that I

ask you that you don't want to answer, please just tell me. I can answer anything and everything related to the story. the book. So the first thing I wanted to ask is that you, when you describe when you first learned from the police of these terrible things that your ex-husband had done to you, one of the things that you said, and this is revealed in the transcript, is you said, I don't know where I am. Can you just say more about that? When I was first called to the police station and Lieutenant Perre shows me photos, he shows me three photos.

And I don't recognize myself, photos of what Mr. Pelico had done to me. And I just don't recognize that woman. I don't recognize the place. I don't recognize anything there. And then it hit me like a TGV or a high-speed train, is what I say. That's how I describe it. There was this explosion inside me, and then it was like a tsunami.

I said, I don't know who that woman is. And he said, but that's your bedroom. That's your lambside table. That's you. I just couldn't fathom that Mr. Pelico could have done those things to me. That's what I wanted to ask about. Is it that you literally did not recognize yourself because you had been drugged? Or is it that your brain could just not accept?

that someone you loved and who you thought loved you could do that. Yeah, well, when I saw those photos, I did not recognize myself. I did not recognize that woman. It was like some rag doll disguised, and I didn't recognize the people around me. It's like my brain just wouldn't, couldn't understand it. I dissociated, my brain dissociated. And I spent many hours at the police station,

And when I got home, I spent like three, four hours. It took me a long time to actually say the word rape. And for that to actually creep into my mind, I couldn't even fathom it. Do you recall when you were finally able to fathom it? No, it was very, very difficult for me to realize that this was someone I'd spent 50 years with. It's, there was, I couldn't even think of it. I just couldn't imagine that he would do those things to me. And it's not like it was just a single person.

There were 53 people arrested and convicted. And there's still some 20 or 30 who weren't arrested. There's 20, 30 who were out there. I only really got to know side A of Mr. Pelico where he was kind and well-intentioned. But I never really got to know the side B of him that was, not and who did all these terrible things to me. It was very difficult. One of the things that struck me about the book is that you came to learn that some of the people who did these things to you were people you encountered every day. I mean, people you

might pass in the supermarket or on the street. And I just wonder how you think about that now, when you're out in the world, do you ever think perhaps someone you might pass in the street is also someone who did these things? After, I actually, I only ever met one of the individuals outside of that situation. It was someone I would see at the bakery. But no, I couldn't imagine that that person would come to my home

and rape me, go to someone's house and rape someone. who's sedated by medication that Mr. Pelico would give me at night with my meals or in drinks. And when I would go shopping, Mr. Pelico would have these people set up meetings for them to see me and check me out as I was doing my grocery shopping. No, it's unimaginable. It's unthinkable. I couldn't imagine these individuals. And even one of them, the one I was referring to at the bakers, he was young.

He was in his 40s and he had four children. He had come to the house to buy bike tires. or something that's a made-up excuse. And he even denied that he was involved in any rape or anything whatsoever. No, it's just unthinkable. But one of the things that really strikes me about the book, one of the things that I found so moving about the book, was so many things,

but that you refused to give up the side of Mr. Pelico that you knew before. You insist on this. Throughout the book, you insist that, the part of your life that was happy, you wanted to be honored and understood and respected. And I was so struck by that, and I wanted to ask if you could say more about that. Yeah, I remember, of course, I try to remember the happy parts.

Otherwise, it would just mean that those 50 years were nothing but a lie. So I needed to believe that those 50 years weren't alive to keep on living. So I just tried to remember only the best. We had happy times. There were happy times. We were married really young. We fell in love, really young. We had three kids.

We had seven grandkids. I can't erase that. That's part of me. What I do try and erase, though, is the darkness, Mr. Pelico. I try and forget that. But you can't really forget because the scars are indelible. You can't make them go away. But the really bad parts, I just,

try and take that and throw it in the trash. The other thing that you're very honest about in the book, which I also found very moving, was that the abuse was visited upon you, but your entire family suffered for it. That the relations with the children, your children, became very strained at various times. And I wonder if you could say more about

why you think that happened. Why is that? Yes. Yeah, as I said, it was an explosion that just rippled through the entire family. And it's false to think that this type of tragedy brings people closer together. It doesn't. Everyone is trying to heal and sort of rebuild at their own pace. Relations are better with Caroline now.

They've settled down a bit. Your daughter? Yes. I realized that she was expressing and harboring a lot of hate and a lot of anger. It's what had happened, what was done to her mother. And we have different relationships. Her relations are difficult with her father. But it's a different relationship because I was the wife, the mother, and she's the daughter.

And it's still very difficult because there were not only pictures of Caroline, but there were pictures of my daughter-in-laws as well. So everyone's just trying to move through this as best they can and at their own pace. and it's taking time. And of course, one of the things that many people in the world most admire about you is that you chose to have the trial be open. It was your choice as the victim. You could have had a closed trial.

And in fact, through most of the trial preparation, that had been your plan. And you changed your mind. You write about this extensively in the book, but would you say more about that now? Why did you decide to open the trial? It's true It's a few pre four years. On these 50

of procedures judicier, I decided in May 24 It's true In the beginning I did want it to be a closed

trial because I was ashamed but I walk a lot So as I was walking it sort of started coming to me little by little I said to myself

that the shame needed to change sides and by having the I was giving them a gift. All these people, all these men, their names wouldn't have been known, and what they did wouldn't have been known to the world. And it was just about suffering. And I realized that part of this trial was not just my trial, but this was a trial for all the women who suffered sexual violence,

all women who'd suffered rape. And in fact, me doing this was sort of for all of these women, for these women who supported me. me and I had thousands of letters coming from people around the world supporting this, and it just gave me so much strength. Can you say more about those letters or the people who communicated with you? Were there any that stand out even now? I never really realized that my voice, what I was saying, would echo throughout the world, well, beyond our borders.

Then, like, the international press started coming in, And there were letters from the U.S., there were letters from Spain, there were letters from Italy, from pretty much all countries. A lot of them I had to have translated because I couldn't read all the languages. It's just that my situation echoed with theirs and their suffering and their identity. And I realized that we really, things needed to change. The shame needed to change sides. We had to have a collective awareness raising because we couldn't allow things to continue to go on

the way they were. and but even today we're seeing similar situations, and ultimately it turns out that that was just the, you couldn't see the forest for the trees. It's just the beginning. Was that shocking to you that so many people found resonance in your experience? No, it's not really.

It's just their support gave me so much strength. They gave me the strength to hold up during the three to four months of the, trial. It's just, okay, I was, I don't know if I could say I'm happy, but I gave my name to the cause. And I just felt because of them and for them that I was committed, that I had to do something. I had to find a way to thank them for their support. Of course, it was not all support. There's a long history of victims of sexual violence being blamed for it or being told that they are complicit. in some way.

And this also happened. There was the implication that you were part of some swinging or community, etc. How did you cope with that? Through the trial, of course, I was completely humiliated. I experienced total humiliation.

I was considered consenting, complicit, a suspect, and when I was able to speak, I said, I'm the only guilty party here with 50 victims behind me. I think what saved me is that we had the evidence, we had the proof, whereas in a lot of cases, women don't have proof. They don't have evidence.

It's the woman's word against the assailant. I guess part of all this was really about when victims speak out, they need to be heard, they need to be recognized. Because what happens is the accused parties always turn the situation around and say that they're being... victimized. They're being accused and they're being victimized because they're being accused. And that's what helped me keep standing throughout this whole trial is that I wanted them to be convicted. I wanted them to be put away for what they did. So that's why I was able to stand tall,

be dignified and keep going on because I knew that they were guilty and I was not guilty despite the defense trying to say that I was. You're listening to The Sunday Story. We'll be right back. on ThruLine, NPR's History Podcast. For generations, an American quest has shaped the world. Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness. Now, 250 years in, what is that pursuit really about? Join us each Tuesday for an essential new series, America in Pursuit, from ThruLine, on the NPR app or wherever you get podcasts. It may seem like a ridiculous question, given everything that you experience, but

what was the most difficult part of this whole experience? Well, it was when I found out what had really happened, the reality of what really occurred. It was having to call my children. There are difficult things you're going to have to tell your children. You're going to have to call them at times to announce a death or an illness or whatever. But calling my children to tell them, having to tell them what their dad had done,

that was very, very, very, very painful. And again, this may seem ridiculous, but is there any part of this experience that stands out as a blessing, if I may put it that way? First of all, I'm happy to be alive. I think the universe that I'm still standing. I'm not having the blackouts anymore. I don't have the memory loss. I'd seen so many neurologists, gynaecologists, went under the radar, for all of them. I think that had Mr. Pelicoe continued doing what he was doing, I wouldn't be here today.

So I'm lucky to be alive. I'm lucky to be here with you. I'm lucky to be able to speak out. I'm lucky to help and support other victims whenever I get a chance to talk to them. I want to tell them, don't doubt yourself. Don't doubt that little voice that's telling you what you need to do. So yeah, I'm just, I'm very lucky just to be alive and to be here and in good health and still standing tall. And, Madame, you know this already, but your dignity and resiliency through all of this stands as a beacon to so many people. And I'm just wondering if you feel that you have some words of wisdom for other people who may be experiencing something unimaginable, something that has helped you to continue to stand in your dignity and your resiliency. I would say, first of all, don't lose your self-confidence – listen to that voice that takes you in the right direction.

I had doubts. Everybody has doubts. I had doubts at times. But I would tell them, don't have shame, don't be ashamed, don't be afraid, confront your aggressor. We all have a force, we all have a strength inside that we can use to help us drive forward. Keep your eyes on the future. ahead and just look ahead and stand tall in your dignity. And of course, the question that remains is why?

Why would someone do this to someone, especially someone that they claim to love? Do you think you'll ever have an answer? I don't know. I don't know if I'll ever have the answer. I don't know. I don't know if I'll ever have the answer to that question. I do know that I choose light. I choose to move towards the light. Mr. Pelico, he chose darkness and went into the depths of human depravity. I didn't know. I didn't see it in him. Will I ever have the response, the answer to that? I don't know. Yes, he did say that I was the love of his life. He even said at the hearing at the trial. He said then I was the love of his life. How could one, How could someone put someone else in danger like that, offer her up to others? I said I'm a martyr. I was raped over 200 times over 10 years. I had illnesses and had to take antibiotics and even had a procedure at the end of this year.

I'm fine now. But, yeah, I have to ask how, why? How could someone do that? How could you treat? How could a human being do something like that to? someone who's the love of their life. I don't know. The question is still open.

And toward the end of the book, you suggest that at some point you might speak to Mr. Pelico again and ask these questions of him, even though you don't necessarily expect an answer. Have you done that? Have you spoken to him since? No, so far I have not.

I never was able to talk to him, never was able to exchange with him. I only spoke to the judge, so never addressed him directly. Yeah, I do intend to speak with him, to exchange with him. It's part of my rebuilding, part of my reconstruction. We spent over 50 years together. We had three children together, seven grandchildren together. Yeah, I do intend to speak to him, and I hope I'll get some answers, but I may not. Before we let you go, you end the book with an extraordinary statement. You write

I still need to believe in love. I received it intensely and too briefly from my parents, and for a long time I believe that it protected me from everything. I even believed that I knew how to give it. I now know that it comes from a deep wound within me that makes me vulnerable, but I accept that fragility, that risk still, to fight the emptiness I need to love. It's an extraordinary statement, really from anyone, but especially from someone who has been so. so deeply hurt by someone who claimed to love her. And I just wondered where does that come from? This ability, not just this need to love, but the ability to still love.

Can you explain it? Well, first of all, I'm a humanist, and so I'm someone who cares a lot and pays a lot of attention to other people. I think love can save the world. At 73 years old, I had the great fortune of meeting someone. Life put someone on my path, a wonderful man, a wonderful soul, kind person with values. And I've just had the great fortune of being in love again. And I just think that you have to believe. You have to believe in life.

You have to trust. And I think if you don't love, you don't exist. If I don't love, I don't exist. And I need to keep on loving. Yeah, I do indeed. Well, as I said, it's been a great, great honor and a privilege to speak with you. And I think you're extraordinary. And I am so grateful that you survived.

And I'm so thankful that you were able to speak with us and to tell your story. I thank you. And I had a great time spending this time with you. Merci. Merci, thank you. That was in PR's Michelle Martin. Talking with Giselle Pelico. Her book, A Hymn to Life,

will be released this Tuesday, February 17th. This episode of the Sunday story was produced by Justine Yan and edited by Jenny Schmidt. The conversation was originally recorded for Morning Edition. Julie Deppenbrock was the producer, and the editor was Adriana Gagardo. The interpreter was Tamara McGuinness. The episode was engineered by Jimmy Keely.

The Sunday story team includes Andrew Mamo and Liana Simstrom. Our executive producer is Irene Noguchi. I'm Aisha Rosco. Up first, we'll be back tomorrow with all the news you need to start your week. Until then, have a great rest of your weekend.