Up First from NPR - GOP Debate, FTC Files Antitrust Lawsuit Against Amazon, Slow Vaccine Rollout

Episode Date: September 27, 2023

Seven Republican candidates will be on stage for the second presidential debate in California on Wednesday. Former President Donald Trump will skip the event. U.S. regulators and 17 states have filed an antitrust lawsuit against Amazon, accusing the online retail giant of harming competition. And the rollout of the latest COVID-19 vaccines has been plagued with issues.Want more comprehensive analysis of the most important news of the day, plus a little fun? Subscribe to the Up First newsletter.Today's episode of Up First was edited by Megan Pratz, Emily Kopp, Scott Hensley and HJ Mai. It was produced by Shelby Hawkins, Ziad Buchh and Kaity Kline. We get engineering support from Stacey Abbott. And our technical director is Zac Coleman.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Seven Republican candidates will be on stage tonight for a presidential debate. Former President and the frontrunner Donald Trump will skip the event again. Will any of the others have a breakout moment to shake up the race? I'm Stephen Skeap with Michelle Martin, and this is Up First from NPR News. Federal regulators and 17 states filed an antitrust lawsuit against Amazon, accusing the retail giant of harming competitors. We have to find items that Amazon doesn't sell. What's behind this move and what could it mean for consumers?

And the rollout of the latest COVID-19 vaccines has been plagued with issues. We take a closer look at the problems that have people who want the vaccine frustrated. Stay with us. We'll give you the news you need to start your day. Now, Our Change will honor 100 years of the Royal Canadian Air Force and their dedicated service to communities at home and abroad. From the skies to Our Change, this $2 commemorative circulation coin marks their storied past and promising future. Find the limited edition Royal Canadian Air Force $2 coin today. Seven candidates will take the stage tonight for the second Republican presidential primary debate in California. Former President Trump will skip it.

Depending on the poll you consult, he's either far ahead of his rivals or even farther ahead. NPR White House correspondent Franco Ardoñez is with us now to give us a preview of what we might see tonight and also the bigger picture of how things stand in the 2024 race so far. Good morning, Franco. Good morning, Michelle. So as we said, this is the second debate that Trump is skipping. Is there any way in which this debate might be different from the last one in Wisconsin? Well, I mean, like before, there's going to be less attention on the debate without the frontrunner, without Trump.

But a key difference could be the audience. Republican strategist Sean Walsh told me that the fact that the debate is being held at Ronald Reagan's presidential library means attendees will be made up of more mainstream Republicans. I don't think we'll have the circus audience that we had at the last debate that Fox News held. I think that Chris Christie was going to make some very important points concerning former President Trump, and he was shouted down and did not have the opportunity to do that. So do you think that these criticisms about Trump that Sean Walsh alluded to might actually be heard tonight on the debate stage? Do you think that other candidates, perhaps, apart from Chris Christie, might have more to say? They may. I mean, they're running

out of time to distinguish themselves. And this crowd may be more amenable to hearing them out. I mean, of course, at that debate in Wisconsin, it wasn't just Governor Christie who was speaking out. Basically, anyone who spoke in any fashion against Trump was booed. And these other candidates, though, they don't want Trump to be the main topic either. But this could give them more of a chance to shine when they're outside of Trump's shadow. All right. Speaking of Trump, again, he's going to Michigan instead to speak with auto workers, but he's going to a non-union shop. And of course, he's going a day after President Biden was there speaking to workers on the picket line, which was widely viewed as an historic event. So what's the

calculation for Trump and how he's handling that visit? Well, I mean, you know, Biden has called himself the most pro-union president, but Trump has been, you know, successful at courting blue collar workers. So he's going directly there to speak with them, as you said, but at a non-union plant, which is outside Detroit. I was speaking with former House Speaker Newt Gingrich. He told me that Biden may have the support of union leadership, but not the men and women on the assembly line. Trump will do better with working class voters than Biden will. That's the great irony. The establishment is for the old order. So the UAW leadership is for the old order. Their membership is probably going to vote for Trump. I mean, the big picture here is it just shows how important this group of voters are. Michigan voters helped both Trump and Biden win the White

House, Trump in 2016, obviously, and Biden in 2020. And the union vote was a big part of that for both of them. Okay. Very briefly then, Biden told union workers that they deserve more than they're getting from the auto companies. What will Trump's message be? You know, he's going to attack Biden's economic policies, especially electric vehicles. Trump's likely to talk about how he's better suited to protect the industry and therefore their autoworkers' jobs. But union leaders really, really are opposed to Trump and they are discouraging their members from attending. That is NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordonez. Franco, thank you. Thank you, Michelle.

Amazon is facing a federal monopoly lawsuit. The Federal Trade Commission and 17 states have all sued the tech giant, accusing it of harming small businesses and shoppers. As always, we'll note that Amazon is among NPR's financial supporters and pays to distribute some NPR content, and we cover it like any other company. NPR's Alina Salyuk is with us now to tell us more. She has a monopoly on this story. Sorry, I had to do it. Here I am. Okay, Alina, how big of a deal is this lawsuit?

It's a very big deal. It could be up there with historic monopoly cases. Think Microsoft back in the 90s. The FTC has been working on this case for years. It started under President Trump, and it's now led by Chair Lena Kahn, who became famous as a legal scholar, arguing that Amazon and other tech giants are acting like modern day railroad tycoons and should be restrained appropriately. Can you just give us some of the specifics of the case against Amazon? Yes. So the focus is on the fraught relationship that Amazon has with other sellers on the platform. Most of the stuff that you buy on Amazon now actually comes from other sellers, about 60%.

And the FTC argues that Amazon abuses its power over these sellers, kind of trapping them and costing them more and more in various fees, knowing that they can't afford to leave. Have you had the opportunity to speak to some Amazon sellers? I mean, what do they say about this? You know, I mentioned fraught relationship. Selling on Amazon is lucrative. So sellers will talk about how they can reach shoppers now in ways that they couldn't even imagine 20 years ago. But also, Amazon is still their competitor. It can see what they sell, what's most profitable. It could sweep in, sell at a loss, squeeze out them and other rivals, and then start raising prices. Yesterday, a few sellers were brought together by an anti-monopoly think tank, and they described all of this. And one of them was Nicholas Parks from Alabama. He sells hot sauces and spices. You can't compete head-on in any relevant way in the grocery

category. So we have to find items that Amazon doesn't sell. And if they pick up one of the items that we sell, then that effectively means we just can't sell that item any longer. He also mentioned that when you tally all the fees, about half of what he makes on the platform goes back to Amazon. And let's look at this from the consumer standpoint. How does this affect shoppers? Well, so the case argues that it could mean that perhaps you're not seeing best quality results at the top of your search, or you're paying more because sellers are paying more. And even more directly, the lawsuit argues that Amazon actually punishes sellers that try to charge lower prices elsewhere on the internet, meaning you might see

higher prices caused by Amazon, even if you don't shop on Amazon. And what does Amazon have to say about this? Amazon Pains FTC is radically veering from its mission to protect consumers and argues that if the government wins, the result could be higher prices, lower deliveries, fewer options for shoppers and businesses. So what's the goal here? What do the FTC and the 17 states want the court to do? The FTC wants the court to make Amazon stop acting anti-competitively. I want to note that at the moment, they're not asking the court to break up Amazon. But this case is going to play out over probably many years. And so a lot can change in the years of litigation ahead. That is NPR's Alina Selyer.

Thank you so much. Thank you. The rollout of the new COVID vaccine is facing some speed bumps. When the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommended the next round of COVID-19 boosters earlier this month. Doses were supposed to be available that day at pharmacies. Two weeks later, consumers are reporting problems. NPR's Yuki Noguchi is with us now to tell us more about this. Good morning. Hi, Michelle. So what are the challenges this time?

Well, one's going to sound familiar, a lack of supply. It's just like three years ago when vaccines first came out. Except this time, of course, approval was anticipated and demand isn't as high as back then. But some stores just don't have doses yet. And Jen Cates ran into this. She's an executive at Kaiser Family Foundation, as well as a consumer looking to get vaccinated at a pharmacy this week. Her appointment got canceled and she tried to go in anyway. The very nice pharmacist said, yeah, we just don't have the supply.

We're not getting enough in and we're still letting people schedule appointments. So you might get an appointment but not get a shot. Why is that happening? So why are stores like hers not getting the shots? There's no great explanation. It's, you know, not true across the board because some stores have stock and some don't. One difference this time is that pharmacies had to buy vaccine from their suppliers, you know, wholesalers, and they're no longer getting these doses for free from the federal government. So perhaps there are some hiccups in that adjustment.

But either way, manufacturers say they've made plenty of doses, so it's likely to clear up in a matter of weeks. The other big category of problem, though, is insurance. Okay, so tell me about that. What's the roadblock there? Because I thought that insurers were supposed to cover COVID-19 vaccine costs. And you're right, and that is actually the biggest change from every other round of COVID vaccines that we've seen. This is the first time insurers, and not the government, are supposed to be covering the cost of these vaccines because they are preventative medicine. So whether you have private insurance, like through a job,

or you have government-sponsored insurance like Medicare, it should be free to you without copays or charges. But Cates at KFF says insurers seem to have missed that memo. What my colleague ran into was a plan saying, yeah, we don't have it and we're not going to cover you out of network, which is actually against federal law and regulations. And so insurance snags like this or other snags like that are, you know, with this new COVID vaccine is happening about 20 percent of the time or more, according to John Beckner. And his group is the National Community Pharmacists Association, and it represents independent drugstores. Beckner says basically insurance systems haven't updated their systems

to reflect the new rules, and it's causing pharmacies headaches too. You know, the systems sometimes don't reimburse pharmacies for the cost of the vaccines because the federal government used to supply them for free. Pharmacy's on the hook for that money until it becomes rectified. And I asked the American Health Insurance plans about some of these reported challenges, and they responded in a statement saying they are covering the new COVID vaccine, and they say they're working with pharmacies and government and others to ensure that consumers

don't face any costs. You can have to tell you, I have faced this myself. I tried to get the COVID vaccine and have been unable to do so. Well, they would say, hang in there. That's NPR's Yuki Noguchi. Yuki, thank you so much. Thank you. We have one more story for you this morning, an update on the ongoing negotiations on Capitol Hill to avoid a government shutdown. Last night, a bipartisan group of senators released a bill that would extend government funding through November 17th. The bill also includes aid for Ukraine and disaster relief. Senators voted 77 to 19 to get started on the bill, but their process could take longer than the three days they have left before a shutdown.

And even if they do succeed, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy is talking about an entirely different stopgap measure with border funding. With the two chambers pursuing very different strategies so close to the deadline, the chances of a government shutdown are only going up. And that's Up First for Wednesday, September 27th. I'm Michelle Martin. And I'm Steve Inskeep. Today's episode of Up First was edited by Megan Pratz, Emily Kopp, Scott Hensley, and H.J. Mai.

It was produced by Shelby Hawkins, Ziyad Bach, and Katie Klein. And we get engineering support from Stacey Abbott, and our technical director is Zach Coleman. Join us here tomorrow. And if you like to get your news when it's convenient for you while you're waiting for your flu shot, for example, you can still get those. Check out the NPR One app. Get a mix of local, national and international news wherever you go and whenever you want it. And hear podcasts based on what you like. Download NPR One at the App Store.

Do you want that shot on the left arm or the right? Left arm. Got it.