Up First from NPR - GOP Rivals Tangle, Trump To Be Booked, Prigozhin's Plane Crashes

Episode Date: August 24, 2023

GOP presidential contenders tangle on a debate stage. Trump is expected in Georgia to answer election meddling charges. The head of Russia's Wagner mercenary force is reported dead in a plane crash.Want more comprehensive analysis of the most important news of the day, plus a little fun? Subscribe to the Up First newsletter.Today's episode of Up First was edited by Megan Pratz, Mark Katkov, Jan Johnson and Alice Woelfle. It was produced by Mansee Khurana and Claire Murashima. Our director is Lilly Quiroz. And our technical director is Zac Coleman, with engineering support from Hannah Gluvna. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

In a Republican debate, Nikki Haley called for consensus on abortion. Mike Pence did not. You're my friend, but consensus is the opposite of leadership. How did the candidates bid for leadership? I'm Laila Faldin, that's Stephen Skipp, and this is Up First from NPR News. Having skipped the debate, Donald Trump is expected to be booked today at a Georgia jail with a reputation. It's a pretty horrific place such that I sometimes have nightmares. What's the process for the politician who lost the 2020 election and tried to stay in office?

And the leader of Russia's Wagner Group did not fall out of a window as other Russians who were out of favor did. Instead, his plane fell out of the sky. What happened to Yevgeny Prokofiev? Stay with us. We've got the news you need to start your day. What do you do when you're running for president and the front runner you're trying to beat is indicted? If former President Trump is convicted in a court of law, would you still support him as your party's choice? Please raise your hand if you would. Most of the candidates raised their hands for Fox News moderator Brett Baier, which is what their party demands. The debate was also full of Trump-free moments where the

candidates tried to stand out. NPR's Sarah McCammon was there and is on the line from Milwaukee, where it is very, very, very early. Sarah, good morning. Good morning, Steve. And thanks for joining us. How did that moment go when the candidates were asked if they would support a convicted felon for president? Yeah, you know, it was kind of a strange moment. All those hands went up quickly, except for former Arkansas Governor Aza Hutchinson and then former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, who's been a real critic of Trump, kind of awkwardly shook his fist and then ultimately said he would not support the president in that case. But here's how entrepreneur and rising star

Vivek Ramaswamy explained his raised hand. Let's just speak the truth, OK? President Trump, I believe, was the best president of the 21st century. Meanwhile, former Vice President Mike Pence was in a unique situation, saying he would support Trump, but also touting his actions on January 6th, 2021, when he said that he chose the Constitution over Trump. Pence got some support for that from some of the other candidates, including Chris Christie, who used the moment to go after Trump. Whether or not you believe that the criminal charges are right or wrong, the conduct is beneath the office of president of the United States. Interesting that you got some applause there. There were other occasions in which I know Christie was booed by the crowd. But were there occasions on which the candidates who were on stage were able to talk about Republican policy? Yeah, for much of the

debate, really, it took a while to even get to Trump. And candidates tried to stay focused mostly on issues other than the former president. When it comes to policy, Steve, one of the biggest splits we heard was actually over abortion. Of course, an issue that could be a real liability for Republicans next year in a post-Roe environment. You know, some candidates, including Pence, have called for Republicans to support national restrictions on abortion. Former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley, though, the only woman in the race, has been more cautious. Former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley, though, the only woman in the race, has been more cautious. Former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley, though, the only woman in the race, has been more cautious. When it comes to a federal ban, let's be honest with the American people and say it will take 60 Senate votes.

It will take a majority of the House. So in order to do that, let's find consensus. And here's how Pence responded to that. To be honest with you, Nikki, you're my friend, but consensus is the opposite of leadership. And there were some intense exchanges also around Ukraine, with both Pence and Haley strongly arguing for continued funding. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis said he would not commit to more funding unless European countries do the same. Meanwhile, Ramaswamy says the U.S. needs to stop spending

money on Ukraine and focus on other things. How did this compare to the counter-programming? Donald Trump not in the debate, but on a video feed on X with Tucker Carlson? Right. Well, it was mostly a string of Trump's greatest hits, kind of airing his grievances for a sympathetic ear. But how much Trump resonated or not may not matter at the end of the day. And I mean that literally because he is expected to be booked in Georgia on charges related to interference in the 2020 election. And that will probably once again draw all the attention back to him. NPR's Sarah McCammon, thanks as always. Thank you. Now, Sarah mentioned it. Donald Trump drops by the Fulton County Jail in Georgia today. Yeah, and you can expect a few cameras, or more than a few,

to capture whatever they can as Trump is booked on 13 felony counts. The former president, who tried to overturn his 2020 election defeat, has denied wrongdoing in his signature repetitive style. They don't even have a case against me. It's not even a case. Everyone says, even the Democrats say, you can't bring these cases. You have no case. There's Trump on ex-formerly Twitter. The former president is accused of conspiring with 18 co-defendants to subvert the vote in Georgia, where he lost in 2020. And just to note, many Democrats say you can bring this case in spite of what the former president said there.

Sam Greenglass of member station WABE has been covering this case for us. Sam, good morning. Hey there, Steve. So how does it go when Trump arrives at jail? Okay, obviously there is no precedent for a former president being booked in a county jail, but we think we'll see a motorcade shepherd Trump to the jail gate. But beyond that, reporters are not allowed inside. Though later, we do expect to see Trump's mugshot like we have so far with some of Trump's 18 co-defendants, lawyers Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell. Trump has been indicted four times now, but this mugshot will be his first. I get the impression that the Fulton County Jail is almost a character in this story. Yeah, conditions at the jail are

under investigation right now by the U.S. Department of Justice. Defense attorney Bob Rubin told me he has two clients in the facility and both have been awaiting trial for more than two years. They have no opportunities to go outside. There's no sunlight. The jail is smelly, as you can imagine. There's dangerous people in the jail. It's a pretty horrific place such that I sometimes have nightmares. Of course, Trump will just be processed today, so he won't actually be in there that long. Although some other things may last long, I'm thinking of the fact that this focuses on events from 2020 and 2021, years ago, and the trial itself is not in sight. District Attorney Fannie Willis wants to start the trial in about six months, which would be well before the 2024 election.

Can she? Well, every defense attorney that I have talked to has given me a flat out no. Here's lawyer Jeffrey Brickman. This is not a discussion about people trying to play the system. It simply takes a long time, and I just think that that is wishful thinking. This judge will have to juggle up to 19 defendants plus proceedings in the other court cases Trump's facing. Jury selection could take a long time too. And then some defendants are trying to move the case from state to federal court. Why? Well, federal law allows some federal officials charged for conduct under the color of office to remove their cases to federal court. Why? Well, federal law allows some federal officials charged for conduct under the color of office to remove their cases to federal court. Former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows

attempted it first. Trump is expected to do the same. And Emory Law Professor Jonathan Nash says they might actually prevail. Certainly has some merit. I'll put it that way. I don't see it as any kind of frivolous filing. Now, Fulton prosecutors would still argue the case, but in front of a federal judge, the jury would come from a federal court division stretching well beyond Atlanta. But state charges would still be at play, which are not subject to presidential pardon. Interesting. WABE's Sam Greenglass in Atlanta. Thanks so much. Really appreciate it. Thanks, much. Really appreciate it.

Thanks, Steve. As with so much in Russia, we have no definitive word on the fate of the Russian mercenary leader Yevgeny Prokosin. He was listed as a passenger on a small jet that crashed yesterday northwest of Moscow. That's the voice of an eyewitness watching the plane literally fall from the sky in a video posted on Russian state media. But was Progozhin actually on the plane? NPR's Charles Maines is following events from Moscow. Charles, welcome. Hi. What are the facts so far as they are known? Well, first of all, we know about the flight path.

Radar shows the business jet heading from Moscow to St. Petersburg, and then a little over 30 minutes into the flight, the plane suddenly starts to fall from the sky, as we heard in that clip here in your intro. Russian aviation authorities say there were 10 passengers listed on board, among them Yevgeny Prigozhin, and rescue teams say they've found 10 bodies. Meanwhile, the crash site's been sealed off. The bodies of the victims were apparently moved to a local morgue this morning.

What we don't have is any official statement IDing Prigorshin's body or confirming his actual death, just as we don't have any confirmation of what caused the crash. And both those factors are fueled all sorts of rumors and conspiracy theories. That said, many of Prokosian's supporters seem to think he's indeed gone. A makeshift memorial appeared outside the Wagner Center in St. Petersburg last night. Many people would wonder how Prokosian thought he could be safe anywhere on the borders of Russia, and certainly how he could be safe traveling around. Yeah, because he has certainly had a lot of enemies, both in Ukraine, let's not forget that,

and within Russia, the Russian military in particular. You know, Prigozhin criticized and insulted the top brass publicly. I don't think there's any question they hated him for it. But the source of Prigozhin's power and protection had always been his relationship, real or perceived, with President Vladimir Putin. Until Prigozin mutinied. Right. And Putin publicly ultimately endorsed this deal that offered Prokhorin amnesty and life in exile in Belarus in exchange for ending the mutiny. And there was a sense here that Prokhorin, while a lesson figured politically, was being allowed to tidy up affairs and kind of plan his next chapter. He was in St. Petersburg to close down his media holdings. He apparently met with African officials about Wagner's future role there.

So there was a sense that he'd made amends, and his ability to travel in Russia seemed to prove it. But one of the other takeaways from the rebellion was that Putin looked rather weak. Prigozhin had challenged his authority and gotten away with it, and certainly that narrative now changes significantly, whatever happened to that plane. What happens now to the Wagner Group, which has been so important to Russian military fortunes in Ukraine and elsewhere in the world? Well, there's been a growing sense that Putin was interested in maintaining Wagner as a fighting force and less in keeping Prozegorzhin as its leader. Putin's spokesman said as much when he recounted a meeting between the Russian president and Wagner rebels, including Przegorzhin in the Kremlin in the days after the mutiny. Yet this plane crash appears to have taken the lives

of not only Przegorzhin, but other top Wagner commanders, which means Wagner is effectively now decapitated as an organization. Although doesn't it still have thousands or even tens of thousands of armed men and women? It does. And if the past is any lesson, those mercenaries have been fiercely loyal to Prokhorin. Think back to that rebellion. Prokhorin told them to march on this southern Russian city of Rostov-on-Don and seize a military base. They did it. Told them to march on Moscow. Off they went and then retreat. Again, they followed, no questions asked. And in the wake of this crash, we've seen prominent Wagner social media channels declaring that Przegorzhin was killed by, quote,

enemies of Russia. You know, my question is, who do the mercenaries think that enemy is, and what do they now do about it? And Buras Charles Mainz in Moscow, thanks as always for your careful reporting. Thank you. And that's Up First for this Thursday, August 24th.

I'm Steve Inskeep. And I'm Leila Faldin. Up First is produced by Mansi Khurana and Claire Marashima. Our editors are Megan Pratz, Ben Swayze, Mark Katkoff, Jan Johnson, and Alice Wolfley. Our director is Lily Kitos. And our technical director is Zach Coleman with engineering support from Hannah Glovna. Start your day here with us again tomorrow. It is awesome that you join us here, and when you're ready for more NPR news, try the radio. NPR's Morning Edition is at your NPR station, which you can also, of course, find live streaming on your phone or other places. For podcasts, local news, and the latest headlines, you can take NPR everywhere with the NPR One

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